00:03:13 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-568-g48dfb43 (32) 00:07:11 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:22 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:42 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:04 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:28 -!- pwnmonkey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:41 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-568-g48dfb43 00:21:59 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:35 -!- pwnmonkey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:12 -!- aristid has quit [K-Lined] 00:29:15 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:33:55 -!- jlewis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:17 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:12 -!- jlewis has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:10 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 01:07:39 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:08:57 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 01:09:54 Items buggily placed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4511) by Tenaya 01:12:07 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-568-g48dfb43 (32) 01:16:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:59:11 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:41 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:25 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:13 monsters blown up when killed by distortion damage 02:20:13 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:20:15 nice 02:20:22 !messages 02:20:22 (1/1) elliptic said (3h 11m 27s ago): branch entrance mimics shouldn't generate if the real entrance has already generated on a previous level, since then you know the later one is fake 02:22:25 !tell elliptic but you might have not seen it, or haven't been able to reach it. And I don't think mimic generation should be influenced by player actions. 02:22:26 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 02:23:03 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:11 -!- Euphoria has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:52 -!- st_ has quit [] 02:44:37 you know, vaults aren't really supposed to overwrite items easily 02:56:08 03zaba * rf2b92c85657b 10/crawl-ref/source/chardump.cc: Fix compilation. 03:06:06 Zaba: what? 03:07:16 galehar, hm? 03:07:51 [09:44] <+Zaba> you know, vaults aren't really supposed to overwrite items easily 03:07:53 ah 03:08:04 I was referring to those 'Item buggily placed' issues 03:08:49 and was talking to the issues. Or myself. Whichever sounds better :P 03:09:14 ok :) 03:38:29 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:38:29 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:44:49 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 03:54:02 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:36 -!- Euphoria has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:36 -!- Euphoria has quit [Changing host] 03:59:36 -!- Euphoria has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:55 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:06:59 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:10:59 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 05:13:21 !tell galehar I agree that mimic generation shouldn't be influenced by player actions, but it seems reasonable to me that a branch entrance mimic would do the research to find out where the > it is mimicking is located :) 05:13:21 elliptic: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:13:21 elliptic: OK, I'll let galehar know. 05:13:21 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:14:00 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:01 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:14:57 the problem if you prevent generation of further branch entrance mimic after the real one has been generated, is if you don't explore the first one and find another one later, then you can deduct which one is the real one (the latter) 05:14:58 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:15:01 !messages 05:15:01 (1/1) elliptic said (3m 13s ago): I agree that mimic generation shouldn't be influenced by player actions, but it seems reasonable to me that a branch entrance mimic would do the research to find out where the > it is mimicking is located :) 05:17:25 galehar: well, the later one might also be a mimic because the real one might be even deeper :) but yes, that's a good point 05:18:33 I have no real conception of how likely it is for players to go deeper than a branch entrance before going in it, and without passing next to the entrance... not too likely with some branches, quite likely with others though 05:19:54 with what you suggested, it would be possible to explore the full depth range of an entry and then you'd know for sure which one is the real one 05:20:04 I do think that the mimic has failed anyway if you explore the level and descend beyond it without triggering it 05:20:15 since it won't be dangerous to you on a cleared level 05:20:43 galehar: well, that's theoretically an interesting choice (except that the mimics aren't actually very dangerous) 05:21:07 with the current implementation, there might be a few obvious mimics but I think it's still better 05:21:32 regarding dangerousity of mimics, it would be nice to scale stats with depth 05:22:00 some of them could be given constriction maybe? 05:22:04 which would also allow shallower ones and have some altar mimic fun 05:22:32 constriction? They don't even have limbs 05:22:34 scaling stats is reasonable also, yes 05:23:06 well, presumably they aren't limited to the item they are mimicking 05:23:15 I can implement it, but I have no idea about formulas or numbers for scaling stats 05:23:17 if they were, they'd have trouble attacking you :P 05:23:36 I'm envisioning tentacles coming out of the staircase and wrapping around you 05:24:21 well that might be fun. we'll see when we actually have constriction 05:24:47 yes 05:25:29 have you found a lot of mimics already? What do you think about generation rate? 05:25:52 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:27:01 well, mimics appeared midway through one game (for V/late D) and I just saw a stair mimic or two and a bazaar mimic (I really like how these work now) 05:27:34 my current game found a couple stair mimics in lair and a gold mimic somewhere 05:27:53 (it is only a little beyond lair currently) 05:28:01 that sounds good 05:28:20 so the generation rate seems fairly reasonable, yes... are stair mimics more common than the other kinds, though? 05:45:26 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:20 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:46 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest27862 05:48:15 galehar: after &A0 anything that touches skills will crash. Seems like clearing or something the exercise queue would be enough, but you know those parts better... 05:48:50 kilobyte: ok, will look 05:52:38 any thoughts on my idea of having distortion damage kills scatter chunks around? 05:54:45 1. that'd confuse disintegration with distortion, 2. Lugonu demands corpse sacrifices 05:56:05 disintegration isn't a brand 05:56:06 and you still get corpses, just not always 05:56:06 disint never leaves corpses, at least 05:56:07 the idea is that you only blow the monster up when lethal damage was done by one of the damaging distortion effects 05:56:08 well, forced butcher here sounds like an artificial solution to a dubious problem 05:57:04 it's solvable by simply not using blunt distortion weapons on races with no claws/beak/talons/fangs/herbi/foodless, or using one of Ashenzari tricks 05:57:56 I agree it isn't a huge problem, yes 05:58:07 Pedantic: claws wouldn't help 05:58:15 actually it would 05:58:27 Really? When did that go in 05:58:40 RichardHawk: unless you have cursed gloves, you can butcher with claws 05:58:53 Huh, I stand corrected. 06:01:07 seems to be pre-DCSS 06:04:24 kilobyte: it's more a matter that wielding shiny blunt weapons early game is a bit risky on some chars than that some people can't choose to use a blunt distortion weapon 06:05:15 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:07:31 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:31 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:08:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:25 butchering with a blunt implement could just take more work :P 06:10:44 well, I do like the idea of having distortion damage blow up monsters 06:11:13 and greatzebu even implemented it (haven't looked at the patch though) 06:16:26 03kilobyte * r336438f96448 10/crawl-ref/ (git-hooks/pre-commit source/util/checkwhite): Add *.gif to checkwhite's and git hooks ignore list. 06:16:27 03kilobyte * r9b110db93636 10/crawl-ref/source/ (17 files): s/antihalo/umbra/g in the code as well, to match the new user-visible name. 06:16:27 03kilobyte * rf46bf2b59b70 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: (Rarely) generate profane servitors in the Abyss. 06:16:27 03kilobyte * rf6a760b5eb57 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc player-act.cc): Fix broken weapon size checks while transformed. 06:16:27 then are you going to change gods to accept sacrifices of chunks? 06:16:27 (mostly Lugonu) 06:16:28 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:17:25 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:25 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:17:38 you'll get a bit less piety, but lugonu piety is very fast anyway 06:18:01 there's little thematic sense in having a god work against herself 06:19:04 could have lugonu give piety for banishing 06:19:23 also, as a non-proportional brand, it's a bad decision to bless big weapons, so most people brand small fast weapons, doing most of the damage with special effects 06:20:31 banishing could work, yeah... yet partial chance for chunks chooses worst of both options 06:21:58 for food, you'll still need an alternate means of butchering unless you have gourmand or can eat everything you find 06:27:15 not necessarily 06:27:23 I updated the 0.10 plan to put some stuff from my todo (of course, there's much more than I'll be able to code in time) 06:27:23 at the very least, it would at least give you a lot more time to get stronger before unwielding or to find hive (or run across a bee room) 06:27:23 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:28:07 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:07 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:28:07 ghallberg: good idea 06:28:16 And maybe remove 0.8 plan 06:35:15 done 06:35:18 <3 06:39:29 are we actually making buffs permanentizable then? :/ I still really don't like that 06:42:18 it's just an interface convenience. 06:42:18 not really 06:42:34 I'm currently writing how I see it 06:42:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:15 whether or not to spend turns/MP to renew buffs is an interesting choice in a lot of situations 06:43:48 when X buff wears off in the middle of a battle, do you spend a turn to renew it? do you even have the MP to do so? 06:44:47 well, the system I'm imagining would be very close to manually recasting buffs when they expire. You don't pay the turns but you do pay the MP. 06:45:15 right, I understand that you are trying to account for the MP, but the turns are important too! 06:45:17 galehar: "Currrent Happenings" from wiki front page is ... far from current. Might it be worth just deleting? 06:46:13 the whole wiki is worth deleting as far as I understand 06:46:29 Adeon: There's a lot of useful stuff on the devwiki 06:51:38 and the other wiki is far from useless 06:51:38 mumra: good point :) 06:51:39 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:39 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:52:26 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:53:08 yeah, it's annoying to keep recasting them if you want to keep them active 06:53:08 since there are definitely much simpler ways of addressing that (for example, Sinsi's proposal that "wasted" MP regeneration goes into keeping spells up) 06:53:08 you usually don't want to let necromut expire for example 06:53:30 I think my system can be quite simple. Let me finish writing it up 06:54:29 necromut MP cost is huge though given its duration... unless you have a form of channeling, keeping it up constantly will slow your MP regen to a crawl 06:54:38 okay :) 06:55:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:56:27 isn't this proposal supposed to affect Charms only? 06:56:30 I kind of remember transforms being specifically excluded in the idea 06:57:56 although there's a different idea, of a "Human Form" spell that's the only way to cancel transformations 07:01:53 I don't see why forms would be excluded 07:01:54 the point is to make it only an interface convenience. As close as possible to the current system. So I guess any duration based spell should be elligible. 07:04:25 I'm still not really seeing how it going to be only an interface convenience... for a lot of duration-based spells, keeping them active takes most of your MP regeneration 07:05:16 at 50 max MP (which most chars don't have until quite late if at all), you still only regen 0.32 MP per normal-speed turn 07:06:41 phase shift duration average increase is something like 20 turns at reasonably high power 07:06:47 03kilobyte * reeb062edcdea 10/crawl-ref/source/ (libw32c.cc libw32c.h): Catch attempts to print out a character >U+FFFF on Windows. 07:06:47 03kilobyte * rf6e9619284a9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Rename showchar to basechar when it's the base ASCII glyph. 07:12:19 03kilobyte * rf99166ed9de3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Fix glyph truncation on platforms with 16 bit wchar_t. 07:12:20 so you'd need to spend 5 out of every 6.4 MP keeping it up 07:12:20 and one out of every 20 turns 07:12:31 this seems awfully hard to approximate by a permabuff 07:12:32 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:13:11 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:13:17 well, that's certainly simpler :) 07:13:35 I like it. 07:16:43 you'd have to add an interface to allow selecting a spell for auto-recast 07:17:16 usually, most costly buffs are cast only before a tough battle, or you'd have no mp most of the time 07:18:48 z for normal cast, Z for permacast 07:19:58 I think you'll get a lot of complaints about z/Z since people like to macro z to Z... 07:20:09 however it does seem like the simplest interface to use 07:22:18 it's ok. I'm used to complaints :P 07:22:51 I guess you'll also need a way to cancel auto-recasting spells 07:23:32 just proposed on the tavern: swiftness gives exhausted status 07:23:45 that'd be cool 07:23:48 elliptic: from the abilities menu, like cancelling forms 07:24:42 does exhausted status actually do anything aside from preventing berserk? 07:24:57 I assume it would prevent swiftness aswell 07:24:57 ? 07:25:10 Or it would be kind of pointless. 07:25:15 and does it prevent involuntary berserk? 07:25:34 berserk and DDoor 07:25:41 including involuntary 07:26:19 galehar: I have a vague idea of making swiftness (a) a little noisy (the air is moving you around) and (b) cause you to be much more likely to stumble into traps 07:27:05 elliptic: sounds good. Won't use it in tomb I guess :P 07:27:26 well, having a spell that gives exh status seems like a very bad idea if it protects you from involuntary berserk 07:27:45 galehar: could also become more of a drawback if/when traps get made more interesting 07:29:47 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:07 http://harablog.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/jump-point-search/ might be interesting for people 07:35:54 Eronarn: i've been meaning to ask about your swarms code. did you say you needed someone to pick it up? 07:37:10 mumra: well, it won't get finished unless someone does :) 07:37:16 too busy to do much coding now 07:37:42 Eronarn: i'd be interested in at least having a look, to see how much needs to be done 07:39:10 mumra: it's on github... the branch won't compile as-is, but it might not be too bad to fix (it's just clinging stuff), and merge shouldn't be too bad either 07:39:24 the code is pretty well commented, though a bit hacky in places 07:39:44 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3471 07:39:50 here is a patch version 07:44:42 Eronarn: http://www.anapsid.org/beastly.html 07:45:01 would be "clutter" or "cluster" of spiders ;) 07:45:35 and a "flutter" of butterflies ... 07:52:40 ah, i didn't look it up 07:53:21 we need a 'murder of crows' of course 07:53:28 :) 07:53:50 and an "implausibility of wildebeests" (yes that's a real one) 07:53:57 pride of miniature lions 07:54:15 well, that's a bit too big for a swarm :P basically, the smallest in-game monsters are larger than the stuff in swarms 07:54:42 yeah i know :P 07:54:44 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:54:54 'a flight of dancing arrows' 07:55:00 or maybe 'volley' instead 07:55:22 'a boil of lampreys' 07:55:49 'a horde of hamsters' 07:55:56 Eronarn: what strikes me as the problem with implementing swarms as clouds, is that it a) nullifies any cloud attacks against them and b) allows the player to spam clouds to prevent swarms getting close 07:56:11 mumra: you can make clouds overwrite other clouds 07:56:25 and i think clouds being effective against swarms is just fine 07:56:47 Eronarn: yes, but the swarms then still can't be damaged by clouds; or they can just eradicate your fire clouds for instance 07:56:59 the main problem as i see it is actually stuff like a cloud of dancing arrows being immune to a cloud of poison, but not being able to represent that 07:57:05 but that's a more general problem with clouds anyways 07:57:19 you can't have poison and fire, etc. 07:57:36 Eronarn: yes, sometimes i think it's a shame clouds can't mix; but it would create all kinds of interface and display problems if they did 07:58:12 mumra: this might be able to be worked around with swarms... use the section symbol for all of them now that clouds got moved to another glyph, and you could have swarms and other clouds overlapping if eligible (so you could have sparks fly through fire clouds) 07:58:40 Eronarn: yes but the cloud grid won't support overlapping 07:59:03 no, you'd have to base it off of the monster's presence. it would complicate it a lot, but it could be doable 07:59:24 so the swarms need a) an entirely new grid of their own or b) just sitting on the normal monster grid, so you can't get swarms actually on the same tile as you, just an adjacent attack as normal 07:59:46 ah, i see what you mean 07:59:51 mumra: ah, but that's what my code does :) it adds a new zone (not a full grid, but it could be) for swarm monsters to go in 08:00:03 they can attack out of there, be moved around, etc. 08:00:29 <3 swarms 08:00:29 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:00:33 !messages 08:00:34 (1/1) dpeg said (18h 7s ago): Many thanks! Do you think you'll have time to assess the rolling boulder patches? 08:01:04 Eronarn: what i'm not sure about are the implications of adding a new grid, in terms of save file size, bandwidth for online play, etc. 08:01:34 mumra: it doesn't get transmitted in online play, and the save file increase is negligible 08:01:39 it's more of an issue of code complexity 08:02:10 for example, if there's some attack which checks for range on mgrid rather than looking at the monster's pos(), it could crash 08:02:49 there might be functions in crawl which are not 'well-behaved' but haven't come up yet, which swarms would expose 08:02:54 another possibility could be using markers 08:03:34 GLES-tiles crashes on startup: 'tiletex.cc' at line 79 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4512) by AapoRantalainen 08:03:37 yeah, i considered those - but i did want swarms to be like normal clouds in several regards (for example, tornadoable) 08:03:50 !tell dpeg No time to check out the rolling boulder patch too soon, sorry.. It's also unfamiliar code for me. But I could check the functionality. 08:03:50 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 08:04:00 having a tethered cloud-monster introduces complications but it also means more consistent behavior 08:04:27 what's the point of coding them as cloud? Why not just monster? 08:04:56 so they can occupy the same space as another monster? 08:05:01 galehar: so that functions that affect clouds will still affect them, mainly 08:05:10 we could drop the cloud part, in which case they could actually still work 08:05:15 sharing the same space as other monsters 08:05:36 but then you have to define rules for stuff like how many 'non-present' monsters can be in the same space 08:06:03 GLES-tiles being even implemented? That's news to me. 08:06:05 Qoradim (L16 DsBe) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 104: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,43) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 08:06:10 (the code could be used beyond just swarms: for example, (sub)merged monsters, mimics you can actually walk on and try to pick up (!) 08:06:19 Eronarn: i don't know if sharing the same space is necessary. and it introduces interface questions, like how do you attack something that's on your same tile? 08:06:22 !tell dpeg Nice Ely page overhaul! 08:06:23 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 08:06:30 * Keskitalo says "nice" over and over again 08:06:37 mumra: you can't attack swarms in melee, they're too tiny 08:06:48 Qoradim (L16 DsBe) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 104: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,43) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 08:07:43 Eronarn: so how do you fight them? 08:08:05 galehar: currently, you don't... they act like clouds which can have brands, AI, etc. 08:08:21 one next step i'd like to add is having AOE spells work against them 08:08:26 like ozo's or OTR 08:08:28 Keskitalo: regarding boulder patch; ignore the patches on the mantis issue, the most up-to-date version is on my gitorious clone: https://gitorious.org/~mumra/crawl/mumra-dev/commits/bouldermerge-2 08:08:39 (if you get chance to test it) 08:08:43 mumra: Ok, thanks! 08:09:21 the trick there is that since they're not on mgrid, the iterator function needs to be changed to check the 'phantom' list 08:09:35 Qoradim (L16 DsBe) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 104: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,43) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 08:11:09 They would be incredibly nasty to melee chars then (almost as much as to coders) 08:14:49 galehar: depends... they have low base damage, for example 08:15:06 high AC characters could be very good against them (or very bad, if we say that swarms can fly underneath armor plating, etc.) 08:15:19 there's lots of variables to tweak depending on who we want swarms to be good against 08:16:56 I see. There's no gameplay design and their defining feature is code complexity. 08:17:46 there's plenty of gameplay design, but there's just also some flexibility 08:18:26 for example, they'll generally be low on damage but with side effects (like mosquito swarms that vamp drain, so they prolong their own life every time they successfully bite you) 08:18:40 and they have AI, unlike clouds, so those same mosquitos can seek out bloody creatures and ignore non-bloody ones 08:19:15 Eronarn: but what gameplay does it add for the player ? it sounds basically like a fancy cloud / beam attack 08:19:16 whether they're best at draining fighters or wizards (magesquitos! antimagic+vamp!) being unanswered certainly isn't 'no gameplay design' 08:20:40 mumra: they are more or less a fancy cloud, yes - best used sparingly, but hopefully to great effect 08:21:04 you won't find swarms wandering randomly, but instead in vaults, or monsters that generate them 08:21:34 but, what extra gameplay and decisions does it add for the *player*? 08:22:28 mumra: A monster you can't just melee to death 08:23:01 so, what options to melee characters have against them? 08:23:05 s/to/do 08:24:07 wands, spells, immolation 08:24:19 fire-breath for dracs 08:27:10 mumra: they're like clouds that move, except they move according to various AI - this can be used by the player offensively in a way that current clouds can't 08:27:16 or, it can pose risks in ways that current clouds don't 08:27:26 like a spell that generates swarms which can then go and attack you 08:28:01 for example, the sparks generated by the spark spray spell will go preferentially after armor-wearers, so that's a spell better for light-armored air elementalists 08:32:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 08:32:04 also note that 'fancy clouds' are themselves worth looking into. we have several monsters that use clouds in some way, but because clouds are limited in what they can do, they often end up looking very similar 08:32:22 like rotting devils vs. efreets 08:33:25 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:41 it just sounds like melee characters have no options against them. ghallberg listed 4; but 2 of them were non-melee options (spells, breath). 08:40:57 if someone is casting swarm spells, you melee the caster, meaning swarms are just a fancy breath weapon 08:41:17 mumra: since i didn't explicitly state it, let me note that like normal clouds, swarms decay 08:41:32 so 'outrun it' is a valid tactic 08:41:49 Eronarn: so that's basically the same as summons 08:41:57 no... they time out much faster 08:42:08 like, if a bee swarm goes after you, you might have to run down the hall 08:42:48 also, the AI rules of swarms can be tweaked such that you are better off moving through open spaces (such as giving them a fission chance, or just diminishing faster if they aren't crowded into a corridor) 08:43:58 gotta go, anyhow 08:55:21 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:44 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:09 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:41 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:13:05 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:49 -!- Guest27862 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:13 -!- Guest27862 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:53 hi MarvinPA! 09:25:01 hey 09:25:20 oh wow, someone redid the front page of the devwiki :o 09:25:36 yeah, I did 09:25:50 aha, nice 09:26:01 just removed the "current happening" which was obsolete 09:26:08 and added a link to the 0.10 planning 09:26:13 which I updated 09:26:22 I was wondering, don't you think we might have overnerfed tornado? 09:26:50 i haven't had a chance to try it out yet but yeah, possibly 09:27:51 to be honest i'd rather have overnerfed it to be safe than have another stable release with it as absurdly powerful as it used to be :P 09:28:07 that's how it looks from the feedback we got from the tavern 09:28:07 but maybe it's worth tweaking it back up a bit now 09:28:16 absolutely 09:28:27 we'll have to keep an eye on it 09:29:00 I mean it would be good to resume tweaking it sooner than 2 weeks before release :P 09:29:10 haha, yeah 09:29:31 elliptic: have you used 0.9 tornado? 09:30:02 I used a version in late 0.9 trunk that I *think* had the last tornado tweaks 09:30:18 and it was definitely useful then 09:30:46 that was on a KeAE who didn't have much else though 09:33:18 hmm, is it still possible to redefine mimic glyphs now the new mimics are merged? 09:33:38 i get loads of "Warning: Unknown monster: "fountain mimic" (~/.crawlrc:1507)" spam when i load a game 09:33:51 MarvinPA, I don't think it is. 09:33:55 :/ 09:33:59 oh wait, actually nevermind. 09:34:12 should ask galehar :P 09:34:17 heh 09:34:27 (I was thinking of something else) 09:34:39 well, it doesn't look like the actual monster names changed so it seems strange that those rc entries would cause errors 09:35:02 MarvinPA, the monster name is "feature mimic", technically 09:35:18 oh hmm, okay 09:36:29 yes, it's possible but the monster name is "feature mimic" and "item mimic" 09:37:11 cool 09:37:21 MarvinPA, also, the monsters are only created when the mimic is revealed, and that's also when the name and glyph are filled in 09:42:11 pearl dragon armour mimics have their colour flicker between white and yellow just like real pearl dragon armour 09:43:30 galehar: that was already true, good to know that your reworking preserves that though :) 09:44:52 yeah, I didn't even code anything special for that. I was just a bit surprised when I noticed it :P 09:46:44 oh cool, redefining the glyph also works to change the colour too, now 09:49:09 Greedy autoexplore doesn't work in Abyss (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4513) by minmay 09:51:48 MarvinPA: I'm not sure how good servitors really are, it's hard to tell when you've so many other allies - but two servitors were the only things I had die on zot:5 (6 bone dragons remained) 09:52:28 it's not like they have made Yred suddenly a bunch better, I don't think that game would have been any different if they were replaced by a bone dragon/ghoul 09:52:59 hmm, i should see if i can try them myself i guess 09:53:28 but maybe they don't need tweaking that much and the best thing would be to try and improve the gifting system, then 09:53:53 6 bone dragons sounds sort of ridiculous 09:54:32 that's about what I usually get 09:54:45 I left the dungeon with 6 bone dragons and 6 ghouls once 09:54:54 starting gifting a little earlier, but taking longer to build up to the really powerful stuff might be good 09:55:17 and maybe gifting less frequently the more gifts you have? i dunno 09:58:17 gifting could perhaps use a rethink 09:58:36 it was changed fairly recently actually, I'm not sure how it was before 09:59:56 recently as in a few versions ago 10:00:41 oh, huh 10:09:57 for many portal vaults, you can get only one of this type, right? (baileys, ice cave, volcanos,...) 10:11:52 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:25 which means I have to do to all of them what I did to labs. If one is mimiced, than unregister it from you.uniq_map_tags so you can get another one 10:12:41 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:13:17 but there's no easy way to find the map tag from the feature. I have to hard code all of it in a function I guess. 10:14:05 are mimics really worth this 10:14:19 worth what? 10:14:33 a clean implementation? 10:14:52 this effort/hassle 10:15:14 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:44 it depends how much you like coding and how much you like mimics. It was worth it to me. And now it's done, so no more question. 10:16:00 maybe I underestimated the amount of work when I started it. 10:16:46 !tell kilobyte If you kill a unique while it is out of sight (in my case with LRD), you seem to be stuck with an annoying annotation for that unique forever. 10:16:47 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 10:22:39 minmay the Farming Archmage (L27 MuWr) ASSERT(vault) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 2423 failed on turn 232616. (Pan) 10:24:01 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:33 -!- galehar_ has left ##crawl-dev 10:46:08 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:19 -!- Guest27862 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:33 -!- Guest27862 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:07 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:30 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:20 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:08:52 elliptic: hmm, we already leak this information (character notes, milestones), so there shouldn't be a problem removing this annotation 11:08:52 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:09:02 kilobyte: yeah 11:13:24 MarvinPA_ / st_: even if servitors aren't too powerful overall, they still have some specific issues to iron out 11:13:32 like th stealth boost being too large 11:16:09 giving them a spell could also be cool... since angels have healing that they'd normally use 11:19:38 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:18 03kilobyte * r79689dc5de91 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Remove unique annotations even when killed out of sight. 11:22:29 03kilobyte * r5a1df532ff9e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Use standard strcasecmp() rather than Microsoft-only stricmp(). 11:22:33 03kilobyte * r05cc9a52990d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (libgui.h libunix.cc libunix.h): Get rid of a nasty hack around improper includes. 11:22:33 03kilobyte * r218de6a8af4f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Get rid of strlwr(). 11:23:09 there was a proposal for the cloak of darkness to be changed to give nightstalker. I have a different idea: evokable, guess what. 11:27:13 kilobyte: relatedly, did you hear my suggestion to make the darkness spell give umbra? 11:28:29 :p 11:29:23 also there was the suggestion to make nightstalker mutation give something related to umbra 11:29:51 yeah... since DS can see through umbra, it would be quite powerful 11:30:04 ooh, here's a thought - you could make them generate umbra, but be harmed by light 11:30:41 so if they're in something's halo, or corona'd, or etc., they take some damage; and sunray style attacks do more damage to them 11:31:23 kilobyte: it was a serious suggestion, btw - i think it would be cool. if the player casts darkness and can't see through umbra, then stuff has -acc to hit them, but they have -acc to hit stuff too 11:31:46 and it'd match this: 11:31:49 ??ring of shadows 11:31:49 ring of shadows[1/1]: Unrandart black ring of invisibility with +4 ev, -3 acc, rN+, sInv, stealth++ 11:32:12 heh, indeed 11:32:36 perhaps ring of shadows could actually lose the -acc and +stealth, but gain umbra 11:32:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:10 elliptic: some ability that involves the darkness becoming tangible/dangerous would be cool... TOME has a class that gets 'gloom', an aura that follows them around which can cause debuffs or drain life 11:35:00 this would let you do something like the fire/ice facets: a 'defensive' umbra facet, and an 'offensive' umbra facet 11:45:31 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:19 -!- UbAh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:49 -!- 14WAB9MFT has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:49 -!- Guest27862 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:09 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16:47 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:22:00 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:54 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:17 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:46 -!- FilthyApe has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:11 Anybody on who can deal with stuck games? I have a game on CAO I can't play or delete. Every time I try to play it tells me. "Another game is already in progress using this save!". Going to advanced options and hitting delete does nothing. 13:35:57 Napkin: there? 13:36:37 yes, what'sup? 13:37:38 I was told you are the dude to talk to in order to fix my problem. 13:40:47 FilthyApe: there is someone actively playing on your account 13:40:55 as in, i can go watch FilthyApe on CAO 13:41:08 Yeah, I was playing 0.9 13:41:11 The stuck game is on trunk 13:41:13 oh 13:41:19 nvm :) 13:44:31 mumra: what's up? 13:46:13 FilthyApe the Grappler (L8 TrMo) (D:7) 13:46:25 Prono the Necromancer (L20 VpNe) (Vault:8) 13:46:34 Yeah, that is the stuck game 13:47:04 3 games where crashed 13:47:17 *were 13:47:27 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:32 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:38 killed with SEGV, in case that gives core dumps 13:49:01 Thanks. I can load it up now, at least. 13:50:22 np 13:51:02 Napkin: was just seeing if u could help FilthyApe 13:51:22 yeah, understood after reading more backlocg 13:51:25 :) 13:51:29 ;) 14:04:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:25 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:27 epyon: Was it intended that Malicious Blades give a defense bonus for a blade in the off-hand even if the primary weapon isn't a blade? 14:53:22 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:56:10 dtsund: yes 14:57:14 dtsund: that still allows for some variety within the trait usage, like wielding the LS and a blade in the off hand 14:58:12 or even a gun :> 15:21:32 -!- FilthyApe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:46:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:27 does anyone know how to read an LUA marker's properties? 15:57:29 epyon: Ah, thanks. 15:58:12 Seems to me it might be a stronger variety trait than Scavenger... 16:00:05 crawl has traits now? 16:00:29 No, I was querying about DoomRL, being too lazy to join another channel 16:00:50 indeed 16:12:50 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:06 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:26 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:26 hi 16:27:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:59 heya 16:30:12 03galehar * r1c21fd4680a7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/temple.des dungeon.cc mapdef.cc): Little improvement to the feature mimic vault definition. 16:30:16 03galehar * rbf2b0efb2fb9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc mon-info.cc mon-util.h): Don't print the (bugged) threat level when looking monster description from the db. 16:30:28 03galehar * rda2bccb3b0c4 10/crawl-ref/source/hints.cc: Remove an mention of knives in hint mode. 16:32:28 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:07 with the new exp change does disarming traps have a purpose? 16:45:57 it disarms traps 16:46:15 yes why would you ever do that to traps that are not in the way? 16:46:21 also it helps with getting the first level of T&D 16:46:27 I am not talking about the skill but the act 16:46:35 it disarms traps 16:46:42 im not saying thats very useful 16:46:47 in most cases 16:46:51 but in some it is 16:46:55 and thats what disarming traps does 16:46:55 seems like I am only doing it now out of habbit 16:47:12 and the risk really outweighs the reward 16:47:19 there's not really supposed to be any reward 16:47:20 well, yeah 16:47:28 except "now that trap isn't in my way anymore" 16:47:46 so you dont think there should be a reward? 16:47:55 you get some ammo 16:47:58 like the old moria some bit of exp maybe? 16:48:06 definitely not 16:48:07 its boring and grindy 16:48:11 and ammunition 16:48:12 dunno traps just seem more boring now 16:48:13 because then it would be optimal to disarm every trap 16:48:16 yes, they are 16:48:24 that's why there's a proposal to improve them and remove most of the boring ones :) 16:48:25 nothing has changed 16:48:29 traps were always boring :p 16:48:40 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:traps 16:48:53 k, just playing and finding myself wondering why I am disarming all these traps 16:50:19 I see the trap creation topic 16:50:34 why not get component from traps you disarm 16:50:58 might need to rework the hunter class for that 16:52:10 might be a use for bad pots for other than evaporate 16:53:40 would also give a more zot defense flavor to the main game 16:55:29 if you want zot defense flavor, worship fedhas 16:56:01 hehe just thinking out loud 16:56:19 but as with any skill you could freely ignore it 16:56:41 um 16:56:49 we don't want zot defence flavour in the main game ;) 16:57:04 i found an weird message of dcss on japanese bbs. http://roguelike-games.com/rlg01/dat/r2824.jpg 16:57:08 but what about the option 16:57:25 and it would be a mild flavor anyway 16:57:28 a dash 16:58:23 I can see interesting tactical options to setting up traps outside of a vault or around a corner and yelling 16:59:26 then again I am weird, I mean I like to spend Saturdays after a party drinking and playing roguelikes 16:59:38 well, at least you go out to parties ;) 16:59:48 not really I host em usually 17:00:15 that way I can stay inebriated longer without the worry of how to get home after 17:02:32 sounds like a good plan :P 17:03:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:01 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:02 -!- aristid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:00 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:41 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:50:33 Getting home is better than cleaning up imo :) 17:53:02 beh, drinking stops being fun in general once you hit the legal age 17:54:15 Depends on who you drin kwith... 17:54:22 College is wierd. 17:55:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:40 well, in Europe we have three less years of fun than in the US :p 17:56:06 I guess so... 17:56:23 But in Sweden it's still hard to drink even when it's legal ;) 17:56:29 Guess that keeps some of the fun? 17:56:41 God I'm to tired towrite, hope this makes some sense. 18:06:17 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:53 I didn't drink before I hit the legal age, so I can't compare, but it's never stopped being fun!!1 18:27:00 Cloud Traps (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4514) by mumra 18:35:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:24 03elliptic * r2702934e36d3 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Remove hostiles from Summon Ugly Thing. 18:43:16 elliptic: (Y) 18:44:00 oh, I forgot to change the description 18:45:54 (That was a thumbs up, also.) 18:46:07 :) 18:46:12 03elliptic * rf15db1b054f3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Adjust the SUT description. 18:46:24 ... that's a thumb and not a buttcrack? 18:47:06 i think it's meant to be a heart 18:49:38 (Y)es. 18:49:59 Do not ask me! I didn't invent it. :S 18:52:16 it'd have to be cut at the bottom 18:52:35 well, but this heart is uncut: (o)(o) 18:52:42 (top view) 18:52:46 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:08 -!- Galefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:12 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:08 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:08 03kilobyte * r58b7930167ec 10/crawl-ref/source/ (19 files): Combine common parts of lib*.h 19:10:22 hey due did you figure out a way for the thing 19:11:17 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:44 Mu_: gaah I haven't had a chance to look at it; can you poke me again tonight, or over the weekend? 19:12:50 oki 19:12:56 thank you 19:14:10 no, I'm sory for not getting around to it :( 19:16:20 elliptic: Good call with the SUT 19:17:03 ..I think, I'm not sure, I've been awake for far too long. 19:17:42 ..anyone up for coding that adaptive ugly things idea, it'd be nice for the summon especially ;) 19:19:51 well, since you're supposed to be the font of design for Spider, you'd better tell us how Hellspider's adaptation should work or it can get ugly :p 19:21:13 I'm not that sure if it's a good idea in the first place, though... there are some concerns raised 19:21:49 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:23 making Twisted Resurrection actually usable is badly overdue, too 19:37:08 I'm afraid it's actually overpowered, no one uses it only because of hellish amounts of interface pain 19:37:47 kilobyte: it's really good in lair, with tons of large corpses always lying around 19:38:05 at that point, large abominations can more than handle themselves against most things 19:38:41 I know that someone proposed that the spell would make dead body parts slither together into a mobile fleshpile 19:39:23 <33 I still love that idea 19:40:13 perhaps you could even use your abomination as a source for simulacrum 19:40:19 no more carting around chunks! 19:42:32 that is cool too 19:51:55 I forget: was there a reason why Jiyva followers don't get the slimy rune immediately? 19:57:30 mainly to make it less easy to scum for jiyva altars on speedruns and get a free 3rd rune 19:57:51 since any normal game you'll easily have enough junk to sacrifice for max piety anyway 19:59:55 sry got pulled away by womenfolk, and to the earlier discussion yes drinking fun largely depends on who your drinking with 20:00:38 if your not having fun go find more attractive friends (it can mean personality too) 20:01:07 anyway have fun fighting the good fight I am off to sleep before I go back the the ISP mines 20:01:58 -!- UbAh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:01 kilobyte: Heh, no idea at the moment. 20:04:31 The "fight once per floor" changes the branch idea quite a bit. I like it for its uniqueness, and how it is a nod to Transdimensional Hellspider (the whole adaptive boss thing) 20:04:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:05:57 The concerns aren't in the wiki page, looks like 20:07:38 I don't really have the time to look at it soon in any case. (Besides, I'm more of a champion of the branch rather than the designer..) 20:08:17 are twisted res abominations polymorphable? 20:09:45 could be remembering wrong, but I was under the impression that they were some kind of weird exception and had always been polyable, although this may have been changed 20:16:23 evilmike: twisted res aboms are undead 20:16:32 (all other aboms are demonic) 20:16:44 ah, so no perma-executioners then 20:21:32 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:57 I just discovered a moderately serious bug in Light that I think is probably in vanilla too, but only offline 20:25:25 Can anyone with access to wizmode without needing to compile the entire thing check this? 20:26:01 i have an offline copy of crawl 0.9 with wizmode 20:26:14 tiles 20:26:28 If you gain Jiyva access to the Slime Pit treasures, die, and immediately start a new game without exiting the application, the new character will also have Jiyva access to the vault 20:26:48 Regardless of Jiyva worship 20:27:27 (This bug won't manifest itself online, because ended games terminate and dump the player back to dgl.) 20:28:50 hmm yeah, i'm able to reproduce that 20:29:05 how the hell did you catch this? :P 20:29:25 magic 20:29:38 I bet 20:29:59 I was going to try letting the player have the loot immediately, and I don't make changes like that without significant testing to make sure they work 20:30:09 this seems like a minor bug though, unless there are more exploity things you can do 20:30:20 it's very unlikely that it will happen in a normal game 20:30:39 And I sent one wizmode character to Slime:6 without having taken Jiyva already, and got the loot straightaway 20:30:56 I think it's exploitable; I bet this status is preserved on save 20:31:23 So players could dive to Slime:6 and loot the vault without having to fight trj, or at least have ctele while fighting trj 20:31:55 yeah but you'd need to do the whole jiyva thing first 20:31:55 Anyway I'll go file a report, thanks for the test. 20:32:25 Well, yeah, but it could be useful for non-Jiyva speedruns, or "crap I just lost my Jiyva game what'll I do next" occasions. 20:32:35 people do offline speedruns? 20:32:36 Er, s/useful/exploitable/ 20:32:39 Maybe. 20:32:41 I dunno. 20:33:03 i think nht or someone else whose name starts with n did an offline crawl speedrun, actually 20:33:06 a long time ago 20:42:10 Report submitted; I thought one of the bots mentioned them... 20:42:32 they take a few minutes 20:42:44 Jiyva-granted access to the Slime:6 loot preserved between games (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4515) by dtsund 20:42:50 ta-da 20:43:17 Eh. Must be hard to move quickly when you're all covered in stuff stuck to your body. 20:50:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:51:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:27 MarvinPA: People tell me you killed swiftfly. 20:52:48 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:09 yes 20:55:15 Why 20:55:19 swift is good 20:55:21 flight is good 20:55:22 Where can I read your arguments 20:55:32 Flight is good at lvl 3 like it is now. 20:55:32 in the commit message 20:55:47 Okay now I need help 20:55:53 What am I looking for? 20:56:01 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a09962a0337387b0f838a3929a52f30046f15cdd 20:56:07 Figures. 20:56:10 Thanks! 20:56:25 I'll be back with an angry rant in about 15 minutes! 20:56:39 i shall most likely be asleep :) 20:57:05 this is such a naga nerf 20:57:26 poor nagas, how will they cope :( 20:57:55 MarvinPA: constriction 20:58:00 is there any plans for removing the lev/flight distinction and "cfly? 20:58:06 and I was just about to mention constriction too yes 20:58:12 from reading that bit of code, does this mean swiftness also still has that silly water thing? 20:58:15 monqy: the lev spell is already gone 20:58:20 if (you.duration[DUR_SWIFTNESS] > 0 && !you.in_water()) 20:58:23 MarvinPA: is flight still level 4 20:58:27 level 3 20:58:30 good enough 20:58:36 what about potions rings boots etc 20:58:40 Levitation spell is gone? 20:58:41 yeah remove the water foaming thing, thanks 20:58:42 those still exist, and the amulet 20:58:49 of cflight, that is 20:58:59 so there's room to do something with those, maybe 20:59:03 how does the kenku speed boost work with this? 20:59:12 same as always 20:59:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:15 Flight isn't really that desirable. 21:01:11 I think you just wanted to nerf DrAE 21:02:37 good luck doing gehenna / cocytus / abyss without flight :P 21:03:10 I've done Cocytus without flight 21:03:41 did you at least use an item that let you cancel lev? 21:03:58 And without levitation, too 21:04:53 i suppose you could get lucky with random blinks/teleports 21:05:09 That's how I did the ocean version 21:05:26 For the concentric walls version of Coc:7 I blew up the back wall with LRD and apported 21:06:21 You can also semicontrolled blink across with Controlled Blink in the latter case. 21:06:55 oh that reminds me, the ocean version ought to have open sea tiles along the edges 21:07:07 right now it has permarock walls, so its more like a swimming pool 21:16:32 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:19:36 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:40:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:23 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:47 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 22:21:39 Man, I just failed three times at making a golden helmet. Now I have drawing anxiety. 22:21:40 t.t 22:25:23 Pingas: that's okay, I have everything anxiety! nothing I make is good enough for crawl these days :) 22:27:24 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:28:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:23 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:59 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:52 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:57:18 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:14 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:28 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:42:21 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:43 Fix Zin sacrifice message (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4516) by GreatZebu