00:03:04 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-446-g935c394 (32) 00:04:16 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-446-g935c394 (32) 00:08:01 moin 00:09:57 UseBees the Slasher (L1 HEGl) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:10:13 zogre (L1 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:10:15 UseBees the Slasher (L1 HEGl) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:11:12 zogre (L1 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:14:26 UseBees the Slasher (L1 HEGl) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:15:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:46 zogre (L3 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:2) 00:16:57 zogre (L3 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:2) 00:17:25 UseBees the Slasher (L1 HEGl) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:18:27 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:40 zogre (L3 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:3) 00:18:41 Moose the Ruffian (L1 TrMo) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:18:52 Moose the Ruffian (L1 TrMo) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:18:57 zogre (L3 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:3) 00:19:08 onono (L1 OpTm) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:19:45 I...nteresting. 00:20:16 onono (L2 OpTm) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:20:24 Moose the Ruffian (L1 TrMo) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:20:35 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:46 onono (L1 OpTm) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:20:57 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:21:01 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest3767 00:21:12 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:21:21 game crashes when i try to read a scroll (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4484) by FGaRK 00:21:27 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:21:47 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:22:04 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:24:50 zogre (L3 TrEE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:2) 00:28:02 terh (L1 DrNe) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:28:11 terh (L1 DrNe) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:28:16 Sigh. 00:28:20 terh (L1 DrNe) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:28:25 terh (L1 DrNe) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:30:30 !lg 00:30:31 1381. due the Stinger (L1 SpVM), quit the game on D:1 (minmay entry widening spiral wide) on 2011-07-05, with 20 points after 183 turns and 0:00:53. 00:31:04 !lg * ktyp=crash -log 00:31:04 No games for * (ktyp=crash). 00:31:10 !lg * crash -log 00:31:10 Unknown selector: verb 00:31:15 !log crash 00:31:16 No games for crash. 00:31:16 !lm * crash -log 00:31:17 1518. UseBees, XL1 OpGl, T:20 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/UseBees/crash-UseBees-20110902-052933.txt 00:31:18 Argh. 00:31:20 Thanks. 00:31:24 np 00:31:26 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/c9918169d10a11a91d8110dfd35a93651b2e075e 00:31:29 Think it's this commit. 00:31:30 I am half asleep. 00:31:40 Not sure and it'll take a few minutes to compile. 00:32:02 Hm. 00:32:36 Let me get to my laptop, I seem to be the only person awake 00:33:17 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:33:55 -!- cesium has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:03 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:34:33 that commit does look very wrong 00:34:34 get_spell_by_letter 00:35:01 spl-util.cc:268 ASSERT(isaalpha(letter)); 00:35:19 Hi. 00:35:45 Yeah, that has to be a mistake. 00:36:09 should be something like else the_letter = -1; return the_leter 00:36:25 pressing 'w' to wield an item or viewing item description in inventory dumps to starting screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4485) by zogre 00:36:37 GreatZebu: I'm guessing that was the intent, yes. 00:37:08 Reverting that one thing makes it not crash, yeah. 00:37:59 Yeah, I'm just pushing righ tnow 00:38:10 I can kick CDO, not sure about CAO though. 00:38:15 03due * r860f876ea60a 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Revert "Return a value out of bounds on an invalid letter_to_index()." 00:39:45 oh, no, it's 00:39:54 get_spell_slot_by_letter 00:40:16 const int index = letter_to_index(letter) 00:40:35 Yes, I fixed letter_to_index. 00:40:38 then uses index as an index 00:40:53 letter_to_index was broken. 00:40:59 yeah, i was just correcting myself about the assert i mentioned above 00:41:01 Ahh 00:41:24 spl-util.cc: 246 if (you.spell_letter_table[ index ] == -1) 00:41:39 Hence range error on FixedVector or whatever it was. 00:41:48 at least for the one crash i looked at 00:41:50 yeah 00:42:01 Well, it was anything that used letter_to_index ot chec kthe index of something. 00:43:38 i guess those checks could be something like if (index < 0 || vector[ index ] == -1) to avoid this 00:44:42 well yes 00:45:31 Shiren the Firebug (L1 MDFE) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 00:57:02 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:14 omg, 64bit version of doomrl! 01:04:26 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:43 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:22 !!!!! 01:15:33 OH POINT NINE POINT NINE POINT FOURRRRR 01:15:38 * dtsund download 01:16:51 belleros the Skirmisher (L3 MDFi) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D) 01:17:14 * due disables dtsund's shift and caps-lock keys. :p 01:18:36 what have you done to meeeee 01:18:41 i need those keys 01:19:22 not when you over-capitalise on them! 01:19:24 (ha. ha. ha.) 01:20:09 *rimshot* 01:20:11 i've never played doomrl. is it worth a look? 01:21:00 Very yes. 01:21:33 Not sure how I feel about the new class system, but I'll have to play it first. 01:21:39 doom was pretty great 01:21:43 so why not doomrl 01:21:45 seems to require pulse-adio, could that be? 01:21:53 *pulse-audio 01:22:05 Requires something that can play midi files. 01:22:12 If you take the sound version. 01:22:20 timidy is installed 01:22:36 but i'd prefer to get the sounds working, don't care so much for the music 01:23:06 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-447-g860f876 (32) 01:23:21 The music adds to the game's ambiance. 01:23:40 I prefer to play on Windows for this reason; on my Linux partition, the music's rather off. 01:23:40 so do the sounds? :D 01:24:06 The sounds are important for the gameplay, not just ambiance. 01:24:56 lol 01:25:22 No seriously 01:25:49 Hearing the soft cackle of an arch-vile or the snarl of a mancubus to the left is the game telling you to be very careful over there 01:26:06 no seriosuly what? "no seriously" you agree sounds should work? 01:26:27 that's good :) 01:27:05 I thought you were going 'lol' to indicate skepticism at sounds being gameplay-important. 01:27:18 this is problematic for people with hearing problems :p 01:28:09 hmm, mac version is not fully baked, apparently 01:28:31 Get a real OS ya hippie 01:28:58 haha, i'm a sucker for weird bsd variants 01:29:44 time to break out the vm 01:30:24 also, would be cool if the floor tiles had a glyph ;) https://develz.org/misc/rl/doomrl64big.png 01:30:44 (no matter the font, no matter the terminal) 01:32:00 Huh. That's messed up. 01:32:08 I don't have that on my Linux install. 01:37:24 you are running 32bit, I guess? 01:39:56 well, it's reported 01:40:14 Yeah, I was running 32-bit version. 01:40:22 ...because I was running 0.9.9.3. 01:42:13 that looks like character set issues 01:42:38 using utf8 01:42:47 you're having utf8 and doomrl spits out some 1 byte characters 01:45:04 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Quit: GreatZebu] 01:45:26 overwriting all LC_* to de_DE.iso88591 doesn't help either, bhaak 01:45:47 *overriding 01:49:35 hmm, those glyphs are . when i'm playing. how can they get messed up? 01:51:53 They're different . 01:52:02 They're oriented differently 01:52:35 ? 01:52:50 I think the messed-up ones are . in the center of the space, while the okay ones are regular periods. 01:54:00 wtf 01:54:33 red floor is different from white floor 01:55:11 they are. 01:55:27 Napkin: you can disable that by setting AllowHighAscii to false in config.lua 01:55:27 The red ones are phobos rock, the white ones are manufactured floor. 01:55:39 You don't see phobos rock again until the Hellgate. 01:55:45 anyway sleep 01:55:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: zzz] 01:57:04 yay for closed source 01:57:17 Napkin: try setting LANG to de_DE.iso88591 01:57:47 LANG?! 01:57:50 yes 01:58:00 pfui 01:58:01 i've looked into the binary and I only found LANG 01:58:13 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:54 also, it seems to check for .UTF8 or .UTF-8, hopefully at least case insensitive 02:00:00 but, as I said, with AllowHighAscii = false you can disable it completely and then you get all the glorious ASCII characters :) 02:01:08 yeah, AllowHighAscii = false works 02:02:17 setting LANG didn't help 02:04:51 LANG is the complete wrong choice of course, but I'm not sure if you should use any of the other LC_* variables for this either 02:06:51 wtf, i have no time to guess the damn captcha 5 times 02:09:07 5 times?? really? or just bad images that make you guess wrong? 02:09:19 guess wrong 02:09:34 off to work o/ 02:09:38 hf 02:09:46 walking the dog 02:09:54 thanks for your help 02:23:52 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 02:36:25 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:02 Lua error ... 'layout_plan_4' (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4486) by mkosma 02:39:51 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:23 hi 02:52:21 morning 02:55:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:59:49 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:14:55 Napkin: just fyi, i looked how tmux and screen do their utf8 detection. both check first LC_ALL, then LC_CTYPE and as final fallback LANG. 04:15:25 i'm a bit surprised about the use of LANG and i thought LC_ALL shouldn't be necessary 04:16:05 doing it that way is not bad 04:20:40 it is certainly the order of preference specified by POSIX. 04:24:41 i wonder where LANG came from. it's certainly the odd one and looks like some separate invention by some unix developer before the lets-make-a-super-set-of-all-unix-features posix came along 04:37:40 Silent Spectre silence effect not appearing consistently in webtiles. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4487) by Dustbin 04:39:50 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:19 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:25 !seen mumra 04:57:26 I last saw mumra at Fri Sep 2 07:52:21 2011 UTC (2h 5m 5s ago) saying morning on ##crawl-dev. 05:00:04 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: builds/* 05:01:58 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:24 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:17 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:40:55 mumra: around? I'm doing your vaults. 05:41:18 bhaak: you mean, they do that on their own? They're supposed to setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "") (or LC_ALL), so if there's some change in the future old programs will be updated. 05:42:52 and if they want to detect utf-8 specifically (rather than just supporting everything), nl_langinfo(CODESET) can tell them that 05:47:05 really, though, I think glibc should drop support for ancient charsets save for conversions, everything but Windows migrated to utf-8 ten years ago and common ancient charsets are incompatible with Windows anyway 05:47:39 kilobyte: yes, they do that this way to detect utf8. screen even only checks for "utf8" and not also for "utf-8" 05:48:20 nl_langinfo() should canonicalize that so there shouldn't be a problem 05:48:32 using nl_langinfo(CODESET) would probably be the best solution but with stuff like screen you never know what broken system are supported 05:49:17 they already do a heavy autoconf detection, checking for nl_langinfo() is not a problem 05:50:05 no, i mean systems with broken nl_langinfo() implementations 05:50:26 heck, I've stolen a bunch of portability functions from screen like 10-12 years ago (mostly pty stuff), it's extensive 05:50:58 I'd say it's safer to blacklist rather than do unportable hacks 05:51:26 after i've seen years ago that solaris had only support for converting one specific charset to another, implemented as a library called something like charset1_to_charset2.so, I can't be surprised by anything br0ken charset-wise :) 05:52:18 well, screen's development has almost stopped, so that code might be already really old. i guess tmux just copied screen's solution 05:58:14 03dpeg * re137254a2440 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (4 files): Two more vaults (mumra), #4478. 05:58:17 03dpeg * r98c68a3e9717 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/trog_wizard.des: Trog assaulting a hapless wizard, an altar vault (mumra). 06:06:04 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:01 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:01 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:15:56 kilobyte: oh, i was too harsh about screen. they are using nl_langinfo, but it's in a heavily ifdef'ed part so i missed it the first time 06:15:56 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:47 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:47 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:21:15 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:21:51 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:17 jpeg was about to made an implementable (but flaked)... let me mention it here: what about listing uniques and ghosts automatically on Ctrl-O (like we do with exclusions)? 06:36:13 dpeg: hi 06:36:14 mumra: Hi! 06:36:14 3/4 of your vaults are in :) 06:36:14 cool :) 06:36:14 fedhas_growth is awesome, but I'd like to have it start with some oklob saplings who can grow into oklob plants. Could you do thatß 06:36:14 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:03 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:37:20 dpeg: can't set tiles from LUA, can only do it during vault placement with FTILE: 06:37:41 ah, tiles holding us back :) 06:37:50 console works, of course =) 06:38:24 dpeg: no, can't set individual cell colours in console either. i thought you could, but i misunderstood the function 06:38:55 again, only during vault placement / dungeon generation 06:39:15 Huh? I thought we've been doing this for years. Please explain in detail what's the goal. 06:40:13 having floor tiles changing colour as green spreads out from the altar 06:40:15 ah, I see 06:40:17 that'd be beautiful, yes 06:40:34 well; you can change colours (e.g. pan disco hall); but it's a fairly complex colour function system, you can't just pick a cell and change its colour as a once-off thing 06:40:43 yes, I see 06:41:43 76zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 06:42:01 dpeg: regarding the saplings, do you mean completely replace growth, or just have a couple oklob saplings at the beginning that kick off the rest of it? 06:42:02 you've just got trolled by a 7 kg cat, sorry 06:42:02 ^ completely replace plant growth i mean 06:46:33 mumra: place a random number of saplings when the maps is created (number need not depend on depth), and let them grow into oklobs later. 06:46:33 No other oklobby growth. 06:46:33 so the other plants / bushes / trees still appear - and the saplings grow into oklobs during that process ? 06:46:33 yes 06:46:33 cool. how many oklobs, say 2-4 ? 06:46:33 yes 06:46:33 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:20 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:56:33 Automatic annotations for ghosts and uniques (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4488) by dpeg 06:56:49 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:57:51 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:52 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:00:47 !tell galehar I think you have recently added new TAGS for vaults or somesuch. If I recall correctly, they are not yet mentioned in the syntax.des documentation. Can you add them there? Thanks! 07:00:47 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 07:01:52 dpeg: i was thinking it'd be really good to move all the .des documentation to the wiki; it has a lot of cross-references which are hard to navigate in text files, and it'd be easier to update and improve 07:02:43 some sections of it are a bit lacking, and i find myself having to look through crawl source to see what parameters certain LUA functions require (where i can't find an example in another .des) 07:05:09 mumra: good idea 07:05:17 and then we could build txt files for releases? 07:05:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:29 can txt files be built from the wiki ? 07:05:39 yes, but there seem to be slight issues 07:05:44 In my opinion, that's the good approach. But kilobyte and galehar are campaigning for having the manual in git (if I understand them properly) 07:06:05 We should discuss this when everyone is around. It's just about weighting pros and cons. 07:09:36 i'd say the manual and design docs are very different cases anyway; anyone who wants to design should always get the latest info from the web 07:10:17 yes, but it'd make sense to have all work-in-progress documentation in one place 07:11:54 dpeg: I added a couple of vault tags: mimic and no_mimic. Only in the mimic branch for now, but it will be merged soon. 07:11:54 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:11:59 !messages 07:11:59 (1/1) dpeg said (11m 13s ago): I think you have recently added new TAGS for vaults or somesuch. If I recall correctly, they are not yet mentioned in the syntax.des documentation. Can you add them there? Thanks! 07:12:43 and I'll add them to syntax.des, sure 07:13:06 thanks 07:13:28 galehar: is it much work to make the wands depth-dependent? 07:13:35 Then we can close this annoying forum thread :) 07:13:53 probably not 07:15:36 about the forum thread, if you find it annoying just stop answering in it 07:15:41 it will die eventually 07:17:06 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:17 hi mu 07:29:16 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:57 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:02 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:23 hi due 07:43:49 -!- cesium has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:46:28 galehar: I know and I don't really mind the thread so much. My meta point is that will come up time and again, and that we have the right to stop explaining things to players. 07:47:10 ok 07:51:42 I've tried this so often and it just won't work. It looked a bit as if you were running into exactly this trap, hence my reaciotns. 07:56:55 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:01 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:20 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:20 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:09 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:16 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:23 nah, I'm just messing with minmay. I don't want to let him get away with his stupid statement this time. 08:08:32 okay 08:09:06 the other posters are very positive, though, so the thread does something useful 08:09:16 I like the idea of one !might for fighters, for example. 08:16:42 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:57 dpeg: i can't find a way to remove a monster with LUA, which would mean i can't do the sapling upgrade 08:31:18 you can remove monsters from lua 08:31:54 do you know the command ? 08:32:56 ah 08:32:58 'dismiss'? 08:33:05 yes 08:33:13 i literally found it that second 08:33:35 thx for confirming it tho! (still wasn't sure) 08:43:21 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:45 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:03 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:39 MarvinPA: yes, squarelos mostly worked when i merged it. the problems were some specific spell targeting methods (clouds, for example) and tornado 08:48:52 because tornado uses really unusual code to make it all spiraly 08:49:04 it wasn't as simple as swapping in LOS_SQUARE for LOS_CIRCLE 08:51:05 also, hmm. do real work today, or do crawl... 08:52:12 dpeg: for buffing fighters, how about a better starting weapon? 08:54:22 fighters get normal shields, right...? 08:54:31 yes they do 08:55:00 what about making their armor/weapon/shield +1, or something? 08:55:43 i think we can be aggressive about making melee classes start with better equipment, since this rapidly becomes less useful and all the magic classes start with expensive/rare items 08:56:23 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:29 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:01 I was thinking of giving a better weapon instead of an enchanted one. (long sword, war axe,...) 08:58:36 dpeg: small problem with oklob saplings; they don't get a travel exclusion (even though their acid attacks are nearly as bad as regular oklobs) 08:59:14 mumra: this should be easy to fix 08:59:39 galehar: iirc the combo of the half-handed and shield and armor penalties makes that not necessarily good 08:59:50 galehar: cool 09:00:13 also isn't that what gladiators get now? a better weapon but a buckler instead of a shield and worse armor? 09:01:02 fighters and gladiators get the same weapons. I'd upgrade both of them. 09:01:11 gl and fi both get access to falchions and tridents, which other classes don't 09:01:26 And the 2nd weapon in each category isn't hand and a half (except maybe for small species) 09:01:49 i don't think any of the upgraded weapons would be better than a trident anyway 09:02:08 They get the 2nd weapon of the polearm class. Why not the same for other weapon class? 09:02:13 dpeg: also i'm wondering if the saplings should appear as everything else is doing, they can still be pre-determined positions, but maybe certain of the plants upgrade to saplings and then full oklobs; otherwise ranged characters will run away the first one they see, instead of seeing the vault grow 09:02:57 although i realise it could be a bit harsh if saplings suddenly appear next to you :) but by that point there will be other plants for cover 09:02:57 you'd be starting off with a 14-ish delay weapon plus reasonably large shield penalties though 09:03:45 " Your attack speed is quite slow. 149% (max 170%)" for a HuFi with a war axe 09:04:02 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:37 aren't longswords hand and a half? i thought they were, and scimitars aren't 09:05:51 ??longsword 09:05:51 I don't have a page labeled longsword in my learndb. 09:05:53 ??long sword 09:05:53 long sword[1/1]: One-handed long blade (Dam: 10, Acc: +1, Delay: 14) 09:05:56 oh, i guess not 09:06:45 MarvinPA: also, make everyone able to get falchions :P 09:07:13 it was fun when everyone could for a while, and you could be a high elf warper with one 09:07:51 MarvinPA: maybe it could work with some weapon stats adjustements 09:08:03 Eronarn: yes if Fi/Gl get a long sword. 09:08:22 that seems fair, yes 09:08:26 they're noticeably better than every other starting weapon though 09:08:44 ??falchion 09:08:44 falchion[1/1]: One handed long blade, Dam: 8, Acc +2, Delay 13 09:08:46 ??short sword 09:08:47 short sword[1/1]: A sword with a short, slashing blade. (Short Blade; Dam 6 Acc +4 Delay 11) 09:09:05 ??mace 09:09:05 mace[1/1]: A long handle with a heavy lump on the end. (one-handed mace; Dmg 8 Acc +3 Delay 14) 09:09:12 that's better, but not immensely so... if we really needed we could take a point of damage off? 09:10:12 also keep in mind that if you go falchion it will be a while before you find an upgrade, in all likelihood, whereas it's easy to find a trident or a better mace 09:10:25 there are no good maces :P 09:10:58 and scimitars are pretty common 09:11:44 would probably be fine if they had a point less damage though, yeah 09:12:32 it would be nice from an apt POV 09:12:41 it's annoying having to go short then switch to long 09:12:43 whoever thought it was a good idea to go accuracy/damage/delay in half the weapon learndb entries and damage/accuracy/delay in the other half :( 09:13:36 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:01 Could someone please point me to an existing Background file set? 09:14:11 Whatever is required. 09:14:31 Like, for Fighter. 09:14:53 like, what's required to add a new background in code? 09:18:36 Receiving objects: 16% (2093/12901), 940.00 KiB | 11 KiB/s 09:18:37 : 09:18:39 | 09:21:06 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:32 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest48128 09:21:41 yes 09:21:45 Eronarn, precisely 09:22:05 syraine: you have to add it to JOB_*** in enum.h, then set it up in the ng-*** files 09:22:06 I have an idea, one I've been working on; a movement-based class 09:22:21 Eronarn: but I'm looking for an existing class to model it off 09:22:24 Background* 09:22:29 that is how existing backgrounds are defined 09:22:41 yes, my request is for the location of the existing backgrounds 09:22:43 for example, look for 'JOB_FIGHTER' and see where it's mentioned 09:22:48 thank you 09:22:54 -!- Guest3767 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:22:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:06 it will be in enum.h, and several of the ng-*** files, and possibly some other places depending on which JOB_ you look at 09:24:04 unfortunately my alchemist patch is on my computer that has no power 09:24:25 oh my god 09:24:30 I had the same idea 09:24:31 x) 09:24:34 (x 09:25:02 But... this one isn't it, it's a Book of Transponderance 09:25:29 is that even a word 09:25:30 Phase Shift, Passwall, Blink, stuff like that 09:25:40 It's etymologically correct -shrug- 09:25:42 working title 09:25:55 you know about: 09:25:56 ??burglary 09:25:57 I don't have a page labeled burglary in my learndb. 09:25:59 ??book of burglary 09:26:00 book of burglary[1/1]: Apportation, Swiftness, Passwall, Control Teleport, Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, Darkness 09:26:00 yeah 09:26:05 I know about the book of burglary 09:26:45 oh god, like 10 million conflicts ;_; 09:28:35 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:43 Specifically, it contains Swiftness, Levitation, Passwall, Dig, Phase Shift and Blink 09:29:06 For a total of two Earth Magic, two Air Magic and two Translocations spells 09:29:32 my concern is that that is far too many, especially considering Earth and Air Magic crosstrain 09:29:36 er, anti - 09:30:25 however, the only particularly high-level spell (Phase Shift) is pure Translocations 09:30:49 it's also two charms, and two tmut 09:30:53 that's kind of all over th place 09:31:06 a background specifically with antitraining skills isn't something that's been explored; although, swiftness and levitation are far more useful to get up to full power than passwall or dig 09:31:23 That's why I was thinking of this idea, mumra 09:32:37 personally i would look into making new spells for the book 09:32:48 i think it is a real stretch 09:32:53 it overlaps with several existing books 09:33:07 I want to have anti-training earth and air; Blink and Phase Shift just happen to be useful 09:33:24 I could give it Dig, Passwall, Swiftness and Levitation and then add Charms/Tmut 09:33:30 'just happen to be useful' is a good reason to not add a spell to a book, except for wizards 09:33:43 Useful aesthetically 09:34:24 what about air/tmut, Lightning Charge - a spell people have liked for a while but not added, which makes you run super fast (possibly leaving a damaging trail) but ends when you attack 09:34:24 Not in terms of the design; they're absolutely useful for the purpose of the class, which is running away and altering the dungeon 09:34:33 the problem is, it still encourages training air; dig and passwall don't have enough benefit at high power, swiftness and levitation do (the effect lasts longer) 09:34:57 then surely a better solution is to alter passwall such that at higher power it takes fewer turns to merge 09:35:10 it probably does already 09:35:10 if that's considered valid, it's not like it would be hard to write 09:35:28 iirc passwall power determines the amount of tiles you can translocate into 09:35:38 up to 14 09:36:04 passwall certainly isn't that amazing at high power 09:36:08 not as great as Swiftness 09:36:13 the comparable Air spell 09:36:29 i've actually never used passwall tbh; never seemed anything like as good an escape spell as, say, swiftness/blink/etc. 09:36:41 it's good for making an unanswerable escape 09:36:50 and if you just need to get thru walls rather than escape outright, dig is fine 09:36:55 if you get a rat and put it in front of a hydra 09:37:03 what if you passwall only to find a monster on the other side ? 09:37:06 like, pick one up 09:37:14 mumra: you get an action on the other side immediately, which helps 09:37:14 oh, it's largely for mostly explored dungeons 09:37:18 and you 09:37:20 ...yes 09:37:41 anyway, you can shrug off the damage from some creatures 09:37:50 and be able to be like 20 moves away in four turns 09:38:02 passwall takes one turn for a 1-size block 09:38:38 so potentially a long corridor could give you about a dozen free spaces; out of LoS for maximum ranged attacks 09:39:11 i really should try it at some point; but like passage of golubria, it seems like a lot of setup, a very situational 09:39:17 the only background with Passwall that might be using it often doesn't have much advantage 09:39:18 compared, that is, to "blink! i'm gone :)" 09:39:24 God, Passage of Golubria is terrible 09:39:28 x3 09:39:45 Jle__ was explaining its merits as something like a low-level CtrlBlink 09:39:47 that takes two turns 09:40:05 and I wondered when you would want to CtrlBlink with a one turn lag 09:40:06 for 8 mana 09:40:38 ... and the portals could collapse at any second 09:40:43 yes. 09:41:15 tbh tho, CtrlBlink is too much of a get-out-of-jail-free; it trivialises the game 09:41:16 if you really want such an effect, warpwright card with a ring of ctrltele is far more efficient 09:41:22 it gives you glow 09:41:29 it's not like you can spam it 09:41:45 although when you could CtrlTele with the Orb <3 09:42:02 in lich form, glow isn't so much of an issue 09:42:21