00:00:16 -!- ionfrigate has left ##crawl-dev 00:04:58 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:08:50 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 00:12:30 -!- BirdoPrey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:11 -!- Guest49904 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:34 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:00 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest42342 00:34:27 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:28 03akbecker * r23f34ec955d7 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Set correct flags when amulet of faith is id'ed by joining a religion. 00:44:31 -!- cesium has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:52:22 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:44 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-373-g4f69244 (32) 01:11:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:16:25 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 01:36:14 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:49 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:19 so, I am working on a patch that returns you to pan if you are banished from pan and then escape the abyss. the idea is to avoid a situation where you are banished from a unique pan level and then can't ever get all 15 runes. however, this breaks the most common way of getting yourself out of pan: banishing yourself with a weapon of distortion. any ideas on fixes for this? it seems very arbitrary to return you to the dungeon if you're ba 02:09:19 one way but back to pan if you're banished another way 02:18:51 solution: guarantee an exit to the dungeon every second or third pan level. 02:19:07 And I don't personally see why that is issueous. 02:19:23 They don't have to be /easy/ exits, either. 02:19:47 (i.e., pan lords guarding an exit: do you try killing it, or do you try the next map?) 02:20:10 it seems like a good approach to me, but pan exits are really really rare so I though I'd get some feedback on the issue before I try mucking with it 02:21:54 !tell dpeg What do you think of returning to Pan from the Abyss when banished, and to compensate for the (frankly spoiler-y) standard exit strategy, increase likelihood of exits (1 in 3 maps, say), but make exit vaults difficult. 02:21:54 due: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 02:23:28 thanks, I think I'll work with that approach in mind for now 02:25:20 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:38 Compile error with gcc-4.2.1: colour.cc:51 calc_dfs_tree (on random_element_colour_calc::get) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4461) by AapoRantalainen 02:40:21 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:43 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:09 GreatZebu: it would be bad to single out Pan 02:53:09 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 02:53:47 * Zaba yawns 02:54:09 wow, #4452 is nasty 02:54:10 GreatZebu: for example, Ziggurats and portals vaults suffer from the same problem 02:54:11 agreed, I just finished a patch that works from any portal branch 02:54:19 not sure about zigs though 02:54:27 obvious, too, wonder why I didn't notice it before 02:54:59 re: 4452, it seems that large.des was working in the tournament... 02:55:04 although that's based on just asking ##crawl 02:55:48 perhaps the other large.des was broken? 02:56:07 i don't see how it could have been working, given the nature of the bug 02:56:41 GreatZebu, could be that the entry/large.des was missing 02:56:44 Miscellaneous "traditional" floating vaults (7) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4462) by evilmike 02:57:09 true enough 02:57:37 kilobyte: I think returning to portal vault/etc upon banishment would be perfect; I'm also of the opinion that reqiring abyssal from pan to escape is ... pretty spoilery. 02:58:13 ugh. 02:58:22 make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/include/asm/errno.h', needed by `dbg-asrt.o'. Stop. 02:58:33 . . . O-o 02:58:35 *O_o. 02:58:41 why does it put system headers into dependency files 02:58:53 wc -l: 137 dbg-asrt.d 02:58:56 Why is it doing that? 02:59:05 well, I don't know 02:59:11 I thought it resolve dependencies only to local header flies. 02:59:22 it should 02:59:56 did you upgrade your toolchain? 03:00:44 for example, on Debian unstable, transition to multiarch gradually moves headers so this build failure happens often -- fixable by just "make clean" 03:01:22 I'm running debian testing 03:02:17 ah, so a part of transition just landed there 03:02:17 kilobyte, hm, regenerating the .d files fixed build, but they still have all the system headers in them 03:03:12 makes sense, you'd want to recompile when headers have changed 03:03:39 but they're scarily huge >_> 03:03:44 especially for libraries as changed headers usually mean changes in API that might be not fully backwards compatible 03:07:18 that's the compiler's problem, not yours... and with things glibc's headers do behind your back, it's a nice thing 03:07:38 hmm. 03:15:47 I support the idea of returning to same level when banished and increasing the number of exits in Pan 03:15:48 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:16:01 do we have enough guarded exit vault for that? 03:16:06 (same for Abyss btw) 03:16:08 !messages 03:16:09 (1/1) ghallberg said (11h 33m 2s ago): I'm liking the threat display :) 03:16:15 :) 03:16:44 galehar: with goldified runes, I'd say we have way too many Demonic rune vaults 03:17:42 maybe we can just change some of them to have randomly either a demonic rune or an exit 03:17:57 yeah you can just do that for the pan minivaults 03:19:47 or just change them statically 03:20:28 that might introduce spoiler knowledge, players would learn which vaults have exits and which vaults have runes 03:24:44 i guess pan was like that for most of existence though, with only some of the minivaults having runes 03:32:37 hmm. Don't they already have a chance to have an exit? Or am I misreading this pan_demonic_rune function? 03:33:01 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:01 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 03:33:01 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:41 GreatZebu / kilobyte: Zigs already return you to Pan - I discovered that my last game 03:42:50 thought the zig would get me out but it didn't 03:43:48 OH sorry, I see what you were saying 03:43:52 nevermind ... 03:44:08 mumra: yeah, I fixed that myself recently 03:44:53 I planned to do the same to being banished from Pan, Zigs, Labs and portal vaults too but it was close before 0.8 03:45:52 a naive implementation would be easy to code, but I wanted to fix the problem with drawing the Trowel card in places other than LEVEL_DUNGEON 03:46:46 more Pan exits is definitely a good thing, i had no weapon of distortion 04:08:59 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:35 beh, Xom now hardly does anything else than spamming the dungeon with his altars 04:59:43 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:50 !seen kilobyte 05:01:50 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 05:01:51 I last saw kilobyte at Tue Aug 30 09:34:35 2011 UTC (27m 15s ago) saying beh, Xom now hardly does anything else than spamming the dungeon with his altars on ##crawl-dev. 05:02:11 kilobyte: jpeg has a detailed plan for Xom. I hope she gets around to doing it. 05:02:14 !messages 05:02:15 (1/2) kilobyte said (3d 15h 56m ago): could you tell me what should the orb glow actually do? Give a corona/halo (no invis, -EV, -Stealth)? Slow down dissipation of magic contamination? Only some other effects? 05:02:19 !messages 05:02:20 (1/1) due said (2h 40m 26s ago): What do you think of returning to Pan from the Abyss when banished, and to compensate for the (frankly spoiler-y) standard exit strategy, increase likelihood of exits (1 in 3 maps, say), but make exit vaults difficult. 05:02:27 hi deepleg :) 05:02:31 hi! 05:02:41 due: yes, that sounds like a very good plan 05:03:08 in general, if you go from A to B (e.g. banishment, portal vault), then you should return to A afterwards. 05:03:30 I'm no panner, so I cannot come up with appropriate exit vaults, but that's a good idea. 05:03:57 there's 548972347892357 rune vaults and we need just one per game 05:04:14 no ascending with 111 demonic runes anymore 05:04:29 kilobyte: good point 05:04:37 due: agree with kilobyte's idea 05:04:45 agree 05:04:50 kilobyte: hi! I updated the web trap stuff, as ordered. 05:05:07 I think greatzebu has a patch about the returning location. 05:05:14 !seen GreatZebu 05:05:15 I last saw GreatZebu at Tue Aug 30 07:57:09 2011 UTC (2h 8m 5s ago) saying true enough on ##crawl-dev. 05:05:21 GreatZebu: around? 05:05:30 what would a pan exit vault look like vs a pan rune vault? 05:05:36 smaller? 05:05:56 if I made a mini vault with a spider eating neutral butterflies, would that be considered too cruel? 05:06:04 as I understand it, a pan exit would vault would be a pan rune vault with the location of the (potential) rune replaced by an exit 05:06:14 kilobyte: no, why? 05:06:14 here's a valid exit vault: 05:06:15 MAP 05:06:16 O 05:06:17 ENDMAP 05:06:36 anything more is just for added looks or challenge 05:06:44 kilobyte: Did I misunderstand you? I thought you meant that we can recycle the rune vaults for exits? 05:06:44 oh, yeah i ment the latter bit 05:07:14 dpeg: yeah, but I answered about what is needed for an exit vault 05:07:43 might be encompass, might be 1x1 05:07:43 sure 05:07:53 there are free standing exits already, no? They're just too rare. 05:08:26 as i understand, any pan portal has a 1/50 chance to be an exit 05:08:43 3/50 per level 05:08:52 yeah 05:09:00 sometimes there are 4 portals but yeah 05:09:25 (is that a bug in itself?) 05:14:31 hatches 05:14:31 ah 05:22:07 hrm, can't get the spider to eat butterflies. It just stands there, looking at me (from behind a grate or glass), ignoring the butterflies (att:neutral or good_neutral). 05:24:23 what about friendly butterflies ? 05:24:57 certain gods would give you penance for letting an ally die, and it'd be exploitable for permanent pets if you can polymorph them 05:29:28 a neutral spider works, but then it's hard to explain why this spider would be neutral to you 05:30:46 it's happy eating butterflies instead of you? 05:52:52 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:24 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:27:22 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:28:05 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:05 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:31:11 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:37 is anyone coding the web traps at this point ? 06:38:50 no, probably too busy coding web apps. 06:38:52 (badum TISH) 06:39:27 lol 06:39:55 that's what i should be doing tbh :S 06:43:29 kilobyte mentioned that he might attack them if there's a decent proposal 06:43:41 don't know what he thinks of the new version, though 06:44:17 mumra: or are you asking because you could do it? 06:44:30 there's just too many interesting proposals 06:44:41 kilobyte: did you see what we came up with yesterday? 06:44:42 like, different levels of webs. Or, web doors. Or... 06:44:46 yeah 06:44:56 I think it captures quite well what we want. 06:45:01 looks like you prefer the net-trap like one 06:45:08 Especially with the anonymous (no spider needed) growth. 06:45:09 sounds fine, I think 06:45:23 kilobyte: yes, I think as trap type has certain benefits. 06:46:09 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:46:21 kilobyte: do you think you could live with the Hellspider? 06:46:39 The question is relevant right now because it affects what we do for branch end difficulty. 06:47:21 having the Hellspider thoroughly changes branch end vaults at least 06:47:48 yes, if we go with the Hellspider, then that alone could be the end battle (depending on numbers etc.) 06:48:07 if not (or if only sometimes), then we need to look through the monster list proposals -- I didn't do that yet 06:48:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:48:44 the problem is that having the hellspider together with other branch end monsters would end up in a lure-fest 06:49:01 yes, I know 06:49:21 hmm, perhaps that could be worked around by them just guarding entrance to the final chamber 06:49:31 Personally, I think we should give the Hellspider a try. If it is too gimmicky, then we we make it a rare chance, like the Lernaen hydra. 06:49:39 yeah 06:49:50 but if it works, we've got ourselves some pretty unique content 06:50:12 I still don't know if mumra asked because he forgot to volounteer for the webs :) 06:50:18 dpeg: was playing with my idea for cobweb graphics and easiest way to test it was to start implementing the trap 06:50:20 the first thing that needs to be decided is how the hellspider interacts with the branch, especially its floors 06:50:38 <3 06:50:38 kilobyte: please explain? 06:50:54 mumra: I think nobody minds if you give it a go. :) 06:51:08 kilobyte: my Hellspider proposal uses some pretty strict rules... 06:51:15 mumra go ahead if you can! 06:51:30 ...have to kill the HS before you can enter the next level, for example 06:51:42 dpeg: cool :) started having a go before at my oiginal proposal, but implementation was difficult - much easier as a trap anyway 06:51:47 kilobyte: or do you mean something else by hellspider-branch interaction? 06:51:56 mumra: that's the spirit! 06:52:29 Hi! dpeg, I responded to the W/T question just now. 06:52:38 Keskitalo: many thanks 06:52:45 Keskitalo: so kilobyte was right? 06:53:09 ah, "mysterious force" or crumbling blocking webs? 06:53:35 kilobyte: I see, blocking mechanics 06:54:06 I didn't notice this when reading the edits (or rather, confused it with older proposals) 06:54:20 kilobyte: I made a dedicated Hellspider section, did you find it? 06:54:34 yeah 06:55:15 crumbling blocking webs are much more flavourful than mysterious force 06:55:26 I was thinking how to do it without blocking (stressing the "transdimensional" part) but this way might be simpler 06:55:33 "You cannot use this staircase. It is covered by impenetrable cobwebs." 06:55:44 something like this? 06:55:50 yup, could work 06:56:03 Keskitalo: got a moment? 06:56:23 On the phone, soon.. 06:56:53 ok 06:57:33 my idea starts with: if you approach downstairs (ANY downstairs, at depth >= TDHS level) without the TDHS in view, it appears at the stairs (or next to them if taken) 06:57:56 so progress is possible without killing, just tricky 06:58:15 ah, I see 06:58:17 and teleporting around is of little help 06:58:31 because she beams towards you whenever you approach the stairs... 06:58:49 yeah 06:59:16 (the rune marker counts as downstairs, of course) 06:59:46 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:57 kilobyte: you read that in my proposal, the HS would look like the rune until approached? 07:00:15 I came up with this so that we don't have to explain "You have to kill the HS etc....." 07:01:24 what with Ashenzari / Xom's monster detection? 07:03:01 what do they do with mimics? should be the same here 07:03:12 the HS is effectively (in this particular proposal) a rune mimic 07:08:19 dpeg: Ok! 07:08:56 dpeg: I think to make the situation better for new players, we should take bigger steps. 07:10:06 And we have decent mouse play already. I got the impression from the Olm report that players still thought they're expected to learn all these keys, so we probably need to tweak the tutorial to fade most of the key commands out for mouse players. 07:10:26 question: there's an enum for trap types : mechanical, magical, natural 07:10:38 web traps would sound like a natural trap - but i think that means they can't be disarmed 07:11:14 I'll be taking part on the Usability Testing course here in the start of the next year. I'd like to solve some issues from the Olm report (overly long tutorial texts, too long lessons) before that if I can. 07:11:22 but if i make them mechanical then the description / hints will be a bit strange 07:11:36 (If they aren't addressed by then, I'd like to test how the 0.7 tutorial fares on the "too much text" front :)) 07:12:30 mumra: btw, huge thanks for working on the boulder beetles; I don't have the time to check out the patch properly right now unfortunately, but I'm very happy to see progress there! 07:13:16 dpeg: Also, hellspider, yay! 07:13:21 Spider work in general too! 07:13:26 Keskitalo: yes, I am too much focused on console and keyboard commands. 07:14:00 mumra: what other traps are natural? Shafts? 07:14:06 only shafts 07:14:21 Lol minitangentbord 07:14:23 nets are mechanical? 07:14:27 oops 07:14:39 dpeg: yes, it's a mechanical release that drops a net on you 07:16:06 mumra: new trap type? 07:20:47 could be - DNGN_TRAP_MONSTER ? 07:21:34 yes 07:27:41 -!- zpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:47 -!- zpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:16 flavour wise, disarming a web trap is cutting through it. So maybe natural trap works too. 07:32:27 got with whatever is easier to implement 07:32:32 *go 07:32:56 currently natural traps can't be disarmed (the message just says "you cannot disarm shafts") 07:33:16 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=2269&type=bug 07:33:41 that's what webs look like in tiles right now 07:33:52 it'd be good to distinguish them from shafts, though 07:34:10 what about shaft = brown ^, web = lightgrey ^ ? 07:34:58 kilobyte: Great 07:38:19 yes, different colour is a must 07:38:27 but we have enough for traps 07:39:11 ok yes the trap colour is chosen based on trap type - so need a new type 07:39:21 maybe just DNGN_TRAP_WEB if it needs its own colour ?# 07:39:40 nice-looking webs, a bit rough (some varying transparency could be used perhaps?) but as they are those are really cool 07:40:04 yep i just did them quickly, need to tidy them up a lot, and probably do a second batch for extra variation 07:42:16 if the enum value of DNGN_UNDISCOVERED_TRAP changes, will that mess up old saves ? 07:43:36 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:49:03 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:07 mumra: DGN_TRAP_WEB is good 07:51:31 ok; that leaves no room for any more trap types in the enum - DNGN_TRAP_WEB = 78, DNGN_UNDISCOVERED_TRAP = 79, DNGN_ENTER_SHOP = 80 07:51:49 it's in dungeon_feature_type 07:53:06 actually - if I go the other way, it avoids changing the value of DNGN_UNDISCOVERED_TRAP (which could cause problems?) 07:54:54 mumra: there's PLENTY of room. There's no reason for trap enums to be continuous, and if there was, all it takes is a minor version tag to shuffle them around 07:56:28 ok, wasn't sure how relevant / safe enum values were with respect to dungeon grid and save games :) 07:56:52 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:45 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 08:13:13 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:16 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:34 mumra: just add it at the end of the dungeon_feature_type enum. We'll sort it on the next major version bump. 08:24:45 those tiles webs look great; about all i'd do is add a stroke and a texture 08:25:49 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:40 by stroke do you mean black outline ? 08:26:47 not necessarily black, but yes 08:27:02 it's already got one (with %rim in the txt file) 08:27:17 you just can't see it very well because of the white-on-dark 08:27:42 mumra: personally i would do it in photoshop directly, because it better supports partial strokes 08:27:46 but yeah i'll make it less bright-white, and there are some pixels to tidy up here and there 08:27:46 like, less than one pixel, etc. 08:28:14 i would play around with the base image, but i have class... oops, now 08:28:15 later 08:28:21 ;) 08:30:11 galehar: there's an empty slot, his concern was that there'd be no free space after 08:30:51 oh, ok 08:31:08 I'd suggest some mutli cell tiles (like gates), but I'm not sure I want to code it. 08:31:15 i've just added it in the gap 08:31:23 galehar: i've already done that 08:31:29 did you see the image link 08:31:49 it chooses images based on whether walls and other webs are adjacent 08:31:58 hey that's nice 08:32:07 did you do the code too or just the tiles? 08:32:12 yup both 08:32:29 i wanted to test the graphics, so i've ended up implementing the trap 08:32:30 it's nearly done 08:32:33 great :) 08:34:05 kilobyte: did you forget the debug messages in _fixup_branch_stairs() or is this intentional? (48ae2f5d) 08:36:39 uh oh, yeah, that's accidental 08:37:09 the line in layout_delve() is intentional for now -- it can't happen in real games, but these were left accidentally 08:40:56 03kilobyte * r1203519ab68e 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Remove two accidentally left debugging statements. 08:46:16 hey, did you know that weapon mimics hit harder and armour mimics have more AC? 08:53:25 anyway, I'm removing the annoying teleport and change behaviour of item mimics. No more stationary but reducing speed to 8 so they are still easy to escape (and to justify the shallower depth than feature mimics). 08:54:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:12 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:45 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:31 why have them at all? 09:24:54 what mimics? 09:27:59 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:59 st__: mimics are fun 09:33:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:57:17 i already changed all the pan lord minivaults to have a chance of containing an exit, incidentally 09:57:29 (re: the discussion earlier) 09:57:58 only 1/9 chance, so it could be bumped up a bit if the banishment patch goes in maybe 10:04:00 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:51 MarvinPA: thanks. So I didn't misread then. Those vaults have 7/9 chance of having nothing, 1/9 of having a demonic rune and 1/9 of having an exit. 10:10:01 yeah 10:10:14 zaba moved it all into a handy function too, i think :) 10:10:39 yep, so increasing the chance for an exit is extremely easy now :) 10:11:33 maybe 4/9 for an exit would be good 10:11:41 the vaults are of wildly different difficulty, though 10:12:39 well, I don't think it's a problem. If it's too hard, you can keep going and hope for an easier one 10:12:44 we have unguarded exits too 10:14:08 03kilobyte * r4cac99eb86a8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch.cc branch.h dgn-overview.cc mon-place.cc): Generalize checks for disabled Lair branches. 10:14:15 03kilobyte * rf2140d3a3f37 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-dgn.cc: Fix &: pretending Snake is not a Lair branch. 10:17:26 dpeg: I wonder what the rules for Hellspider upgrades should be. For example, a single dot of rF is not much, and attack brands can be done just once. 10:18:41 kilobyte: yes, but we have four iterations. 10:18:54 If you keep using fire, it'll get another pip. 10:19:00 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:12 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:49 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:13 kilobyte: if that's not enough, we can react. 10:23:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:07 03MarvinPA * rba66029bd595 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Adjust the locations for some TSO vaults 10:38:19 I caused the bug which stops large vaults from being placed (since there are two large.des files). Is that fixed? 10:40:24 not yet, but Greatzebu submitted a patch 10:40:41 awesome 10:41:03 I had a quick look at it and it seems ok 10:41:30 appart from the fact that it doesn't handle save compat. I think vault cache is saved 10:41:58 it's cache anyway, you have to do rm -rf saves/des every once in a while even now, so it will not hurt a bit 10:43:46 cool 10:44:47 would be nice to somehow trigger rebuilding of the cache automatically after such a change, though 10:44:51 but I'm not sure how that could be done 10:48:06 amount of visitors, pages served and hits are stabilizing on CDO: 150k visitors, 1.1mil pages served, 2.7mil hits in August (not counting TCDO). 10:48:17 Put it in the makefile and just do it on each recompile? 10:48:40 Or do it if the relevant file was changed 10:48:53 Napkin: no increase from webtiles? 10:49:07 Napkin: I'd expect some growth, just slower 10:49:10 webtiles (tcdo) isn't counted by apache 10:49:20 ah 10:49:27 it has its own server software and different logging 10:49:52 april 2011 was still the strongest month yet 10:50:12 Napkin: we need graphs! (just joking) 10:50:23 we have graphs! (not joking :D) 10:50:29 https://crawl.develz.org/cgi-bin/stats.pl 10:50:36 although I would be very grateful if CAO's usage statistics were working :( 10:50:40 but i bet, you forgot your wordpress login again.. didn't you? 10:50:47 hm, let me see 10:50:52 don't they work anymore? 10:51:06 I think they're not counting 0.9 games or something. 10:51:10 ah 10:51:11 Does anyone know more? 10:51:21 well, i could have a look this evening 10:51:37 if i find the related scripts on cao, that is 10:53:22 you are my hero! 10:53:35 (looking at the graphs, btw) 10:54:16 so, ab nach hause :D 10:54:50 Feierabend! 10:56:07 03MarvinPA * r73bcd2f7986a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Restore catoblepae to normal frequencies 10:58:42 -!- CoffeeOblivion has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:00:59 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:02:39 -!- CoffeeOblivion has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:45 dpeg: i was trying to reuse the code for nets (including the existing status of ATTR_HELD) - but there's code all over the place that refers to "you can't do that while stuck in a net" etc. 11:15:03 i'm wondering whether to a) add a new ATTR_ status for caught in a web, and duplicate all those special cases, or b) go through each special case and alter the strings to say either net or web depending (but then i need to work out how to determine whether it's actually a net or web, which is probably the hard part) 11:21:56 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:57 mumra: there should be a good way to do this 11:22:31 mumra, duplicating all special cases sounds like the biggest of two evils :P 11:22:34 the duplication is not good 11:23:01 mumra: perhaps wait a bit, the coders might have an idea 11:23:16 mumra, but I don't know 11:23:31 mumra: can't you discern web/net from trap type (mechanical or not)? 11:33:16 dpeg: it gets complicated - the net trap gets destroyed when you step on it usually, so there's only be floor there when the check is done 11:33:44 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:55 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:12 dpeg: but as it is, it's implemented, just once you're caught in the web it acts like a net - so i can post this patch and anyone else can take a look 11:39:48 mumra: that's great! 11:40:11 mumra: perhaps the net should take a parameter, as I indicated on the wiki 11:40:37 hmm, the more i look at it, the more there are problems with reusing the nets code. 11:41:02 for instance, a lot of the time it expects a net item to actually be there which it uses to test how easy it is to escape 11:41:19 i think for that reason it's very easy to escape the web (because it looks like the net has already been destroyed) 11:42:41 mumra: if you think it's better, then go with the duplication and make a comment in the patch notes -- perhaps someone sees a good way to single out the relevant checks 11:43:14 mumra: Use a web item which is destoyed when you get out? 11:43:36 that's a hack 11:43:42 the thing really is a trap 11:43:57 Ok 11:44:02 if it is an item, we get trouble with sacrifice, apportation etc. 11:44:24 True 11:44:47 basically everywhere that ATTR_HELD is referenced (which is in quite a lot of different files) it's assumed that you're in a net, both with messages and code 11:45:03 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:42 generalising it would be cool, i think there were some spell ideas that could use it too 11:45:51 but yeah, sounds like it could be a fair amount of effort to do so 11:48:51 it's a tricky one. i don't like duplication either, but i have no idea how to general case the messages and behaviour right now 11:50:42 mumra: no idea what is better. You can go ahead with duplication, or wait for kilobyte and/or galehar for more expertise. 11:52:14 Perhaps the simple way would be to replace the message with "You can't do that while stuck!" 11:52:27 ingenious 11:52:32 true :) 11:52:45 there's still a problem with the escape-from-stuck logic tho 11:53:11 also some of the messages are things like "You tear through the net!" 11:53:33 This reminds me. If you detect a trap, the game tells you "You detect a trap." I find this pretty annoying, because it is very useful to know _what_ kind of trap. Here, the game should be a lot more verbose. In the case of web vs net, the player will know pretty well which applies. 11:54:07 dpeg: I actually never even really thought of that, because the traps are much more distinct in tiles... 11:54:25 dtsund: yes, it occurred to me that this is a console-only problem. 11:55:32 hmm, looks like when you detect a trap by waiting it tells you what it is 11:56:02 but when you detect one by being warned as you're about to step on it, you just get "do you really want to step there?", yeah 11:56:33 MarvinPA: I was with Ash. He also doesn't tell. 11:56:37 ahh 11:56:53 it's not worth an implementable, but it was not ideal 11:58:40 MarvinPA: "do you really want to go there?" while auto exploring doesn't really make sense either... 12:00:19 maybe it should just be "wait a minute, playername. there is a foo trap there!" 12:00:33 or even just "you found a foo trap" 12:01:14 yeah 12:01:37 looks easy to change, anyway, so somebody want to decide on a good message for me? :P 12:01:51 "You found a foo trap." :) 12:05:56 also, any thoughts on re-enabling arcane marksmen with the book proposed on the wiki a while back? https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:arcane_marksmen 12:06:25 -!- BirdoPrey has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:29 i think there's definitely room for improvement and/or a new spell or two there, but it could still be worth enabling them early and seeing how it goes 12:07:34 MarvinPA: so what's their perk? Affecting monsters in non-damage ways and using ranged combat for damage? 12:07:45 basically, yeah 12:08:07 hexes to delay/disable their enemies, with ranged combat for the actual killing 12:08:37 MarvinPA: you think the original idea of branding was not so good? 12:09:08 i'm not so keen on it personally 12:09:40 mainly because it felt like i had to rely far too much on kiting things with poison weapon and swiftness for a long time 12:10:31 and i rather like the hex theme, slow would let you get more shots in on an approaching enemy but isn't as reliable as swiftness for easy escapes and kiting for example 12:10:43 ok 12:12:09 Potential problem with trapfinding message: 12:12:47 Many, many more prompts after, say, drawing a Minefield card or while exploring the Tomb instead of "You find a trap! x20" 12:13:07 dtsund: why should there be a prompt? 12:13:21 The messages are concatenated by now. 12:13:25 Because more than five traps or so will thus fill the buffer 12:13:33 Ah, true. 12:13:35 You find a blade trap. You find a zot trap. 12:13:38 etc 12:13:46 this is just for changing the message when you detect a trap by trying to step onto it 12:14:10 -!- Guest42342 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:48 MarvinPA: and what about Ash? 12:15:07 Web trap for Spiders Nest (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4463) by mumra 12:15:12 yay 12:15:20 i can't figure out how ash works differently, i thought it was just a passive boost to t&d skill? 12:15:39 don't know 12:15:41 -!- Guest42342 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:43 back later 12:16:00 bye :) 12:18:16 I think giving someone the aptitude niche of good hexes and bad stabbing would be interesting, playing En as a fighter with debuffs is quite fun 12:18:23 03MarvinPA * ra2b4243190a4 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Improve trap detection messages when stepping onto a trap 12:19:09 yeah, that's what hopefully the AM book would be fun with as well 12:23:36 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:55 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:43 MarvinPA: Light's AM book is exactly that 12:26:27 (Though it has a couple of spells in it that aren't Hexes in SS, but wound up in Sorcery nonetheless) 12:27:57 ah yeah, i remember seeing it was the same sort of concept in the changelog somewhere 12:28:29 aha, almost identical except poison weapon/ledas instead of inner flame/enslave 12:28:46 cool 12:29:28 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:40 http://roguelikeradio.blogspot.com/ 12:33:22 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:45 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:14 Inner Flame would be a pretty cool AM spell, I should probably port it 12:40:10 * dtsund thinks six spells in a starting book is about the sweet spot 12:48:07 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:13 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:48:40 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:12 dpeg? 12:54:23 so what's broken about the scoring website? 13:01:55 Napkin: Hier! 13:02:08 ahoi! :) 13:02:34 Napkin: hm, I found the numbers to be too low, and then someone told me that some games are not counted. Which I fully believed, because the numbers are so low. 13:02:45 There isn't even a proper tournament peek, that is unheard of! 13:02:58 hmmhmmhmm 13:03:16 i think those scripts are in a git repository 13:03:58 heh, hosted on CAO 13:04:20 do you have access to them? 13:04:31 i think so 13:05:27 Napkin: I could be wrong -- perhaps the tournament didn't draw as many players as I expect 13:06:06 definitely vacations time, but that never held many off during the previous tournaments ;) 13:06:35 shorter duration, maybe? 13:07:23 perhaps 13:09:28 definitely http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-stable/overview.html is borked again 13:09:42 and server activity ends in april 13:12:14 oh 13:13:17 but -stable hasn't been maintained, i guess 13:13:24 checking the "normal" scoring now 13:15:58 hmm.. there is no cronjob that created the score files 13:18:55 aha! 13:19:03 i found greensnark's screen session :D 13:20:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:51 what a hax0r! 13:23:08 rax? 13:23:30 rax0r 13:23:40 rax0rin ;) 13:25:45 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:20 bless archive.debian.org! 13:29:17 is the tournament over? :) 13:29:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:42 yes, cbus :) 13:32:01 -!- jlewis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32:47 Napkin: could you repair it? (Just back from bedtime story reading.) 13:33:25 well, i found how the scores are updated 13:33:35 now i'm looking what those scripts do 13:33:43 !beer Napkin 13:33:53 no way! ;) 13:33:56 Napkin: ? 13:33:57 rax: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:34:00 !messages 13:34:01 (1/1) rwbarton said (22h 7m 44s ago): The scoring scripts (http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/) don't include 0.9 games yet. Is that something you can fix, when you have a chance? Or do we need greensnark? 13:34:09 hey rax 13:34:21 I don't know much about the new scoring scripts. These aren't the ruby scripts anymore, right? 13:34:23 i started looking at it, and i think i found what scripts do the update 13:34:35 no, python now 13:34:58 i also update sources.list to reflect etch's move to archive.debian.org 13:35:01 i hope that's ok? 13:35:44 That should be fine. 13:36:01 The long-term solution is to rebuild a new machine and migrate things over. Trying to upgrade this machine at this point makes me nervous. 13:36:12 hehe, i imagine 13:36:18 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:23 But taking archive.debian.org is a good step at least. 13:36:44 nono, i just needed lsof 13:36:55 not doing any upgrades or anything like that 13:37:09 *nodnods* 13:37:14 No lsof? Really? What's wrong with me? :P 13:37:14 btw, why didn't you tell me, that you enabled my access to root? 13:37:22 I... did? 13:37:27 Or at least I thought I did? 13:37:47 you probably did and it.. got lost by the messenger! 13:37:49 -!- jlewis has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:54 I am pretty sure we talked about it a week or two ago and you were like "I dunno!" and I said "I can take it away if you want!" and you didn't seem to want. 13:38:25 uhmm..uhmm... 13:38:30 yes? 13:38:34 I could still take it away! 13:38:35 oh well 13:38:41 It's easy to do. :) 13:38:44 wait, wait 13:38:55 now that i got to the fun part ;) 13:39:08 *laughs* 13:39:58 some python training will do me good :D 13:42:22 Well, as long as you're cool with it. My goal was not to force you into work so much as to at least slightly decrease the bus factor. 13:43:01 nah, all cool 13:43:12 just looking around when i have time, trying to help 13:43:52 cursing at greensnark's millions of functions once in a while ;) 13:45:14 Hahahahaha yeah :P 14:05:44 actually, dpeg 14:05:47 i think the stats are correct 14:06:01 what did you think wasn't counted? 14:15:47 Octopodes lists in Table of Aptitudes (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4464) by smock 14:18:49 Napkin: back from second bedtime story reading 14:19:01 hehe 14:19:04 Napkin: hm, we thought some 0.9 games were missing, but we may have been all wrong 14:19:19 Napkin: see rwbarton's message to rax above 14:20:56 well, my turn in bedtime story reading now ;) 14:20:58 will check later 14:21:06 Napkin: child??? 14:21:08 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:14 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:new_uniques#xoms_bodypart ! 14:21:20 me? forever ;) 14:22:00 hehe 14:22:27 It is just that all other tournaments had a very visible spike but this one did not. Perhaps it's just our lack of advertisement, though. 14:22:32 We'll do better next year. 14:23:26 !seen evilmike 14:23:26 I last saw evilmike at Tue Aug 30 11:05:23 2011 UTC (8h 18m 3s ago) quitting with message Quit: something happened. 14:24:54 oh, you are right, 0.9 logfiles and milestones from CAO are missing 14:25:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:26:39 0.9 logfiles from CDO are mislinked, too 14:26:52 no, that's morgues and a different issue 14:26:57 oh 14:27:01 my bad 14:27:27 no problem :) 14:27:42 Napkin: I just wondered.... the wins are correctly listed on Usage Statistics -- what is going on? 14:28:36 anyways, will try later 14:29:31 thank you so much 14:29:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:44 !tell galehar I've stopped replying to the forum Spider thread. The eggs idea is very good. If you want to, we can discuss and flesh it out. It'll rock. 14:34:45 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 14:35:54 spider eggs? I'm gonna have nightmares :/ 14:36:29 !send rkd spider eggs 14:36:29 Sending spider eggs to rkd. 14:37:29 Of course, it is an abuse of the medical and biological sciences, but it will work well in the game. 14:39:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:43 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:59 Game freezes every time. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4465) by patseb 14:55:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:50 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:16 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 15:02:06 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:03:02 Vidiiot (L6 HECj) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Ossuary) 15:15:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: changing OS...] 15:16:20 -!- Guest42342 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:45 -!- Guest42342 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:33 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:41 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:42 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:11 03dpeg * red032a34e5d2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/simple.des: New entry vault (denvon); #4273. 15:41:42 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:20 dpeg: i may have added the missing games, it's still processing 16:00:23 let's see 16:04:05 What's you.piety_max and you.piety_hysteresis for? 16:04:45 Napkin: <3 16:05:38 ghallberg: hysteresis was added by Paul Dubois. The point is if you're piety is near a threshold where you gain/lose an ability, then the "You can now..." and "You can no longer..." messages are annoying. 16:05:45 -!- gnsh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:46 Hysteresis prevents this. 16:05:51 ok 16:05:56 -!- BirdoPrey has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:07 and piety_max? 16:06:45 probably the maximal piety ever reached 16:06:55 hmm yeah 16:07:07 I am not sure if that's ever used somewhere, but it will be taken into account when we redo wrath. 16:08:31 ok 16:09:03 I like the HALF_MAX_PIETY constant btw... 16:09:10 Why not just MAX_PIETY/2? 16:09:20 no idea 16:11:11 >.< 16:11:40 12000 lines of milestones/logfiles processed in 17 minutes 16:13:00 milestones & logfiles of 0.9 on CAO have 62k lines in total 16:13:17 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:19 Napkin: do you have a clue what games got left outß 16:13:41 all stable 0.9 from CAO, i believe 16:13:51 ah 16:14:15 all unstable 0.9 (in milestones-git/logfiles-git) are counted in the stats 16:14:18 hmm 16:14:20 ok 16:14:35 dpeg: Got the time to help me a little? 16:15:08 ghallberg: with what? 16:15:16 And my abilities are very limited, almost non-existent. 16:15:41 I'm doing a patch for monks, to give them some piety with their first god. 16:15:50 <3 16:16:02 I definitely support this =) 16:16:21 But I'm not certain how to check if it's the first god you ever worshipped. 16:16:41 aha 16:16:41 Code cleanup suggestion: put a SK_LAST_MAGIC_SCHOOL = SK_POISON_MAGIC in enum.h, and use that instead where the code uses SK_POISON_MAGIC to mean highest magic skill. Should insulate against potential changes. 16:17:06 dtsund: sounds good, please mention when kilobyte is around or !tell him 16:17:16 dpeg: I guess I'll have to add a boolean to player.h or so player_worshipped_god or some such. 16:17:20 !tell kilobyte Code cleanup suggestion: put a SK_LAST_MAGIC_SCHOOL = SK_POISON_MAGIC in enum.h, and use that instead where the code uses SK_POISON_MAGIC to mean highest magic skill. Should insulate against potential changes. 16:17:22 ghallberg: we could track if the.... 16:17:27 ghallberg: what you said 16:17:37 dtsund: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 16:17:52 Thank'ee, Henzell. 16:18:16 ghallberg: I believe we should track a number of conducts anyway ... number of gods worshipped would be one of them 16:18:46 There is a Vector for it already. I tihnk 16:19:00 so you can use this one? 16:19:29 Yep 16:19:34 I'll take a look at it. 16:20:44 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:30 ' (CMD_WEAPON_SWAP) doesn't work right for Felids (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4466) by SamB 16:22:30 Wait... what... 16:22:35 Why is someone... 16:22:45 wielding snakable items? 16:23:09 Trying to switch weaps with a felid!? 16:23:34 i'm not sure how that would work if both a and b slots are taken, since that's what ' uses 16:24:12 Why is he even wielding anything >.< 16:24:19 Now I got sidetracked. 16:24:24 ghallberg: sticks to snakes. 16:24:34 i opened the bug to see, too :) 16:24:50 ah 16:30:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:16 ooook, let's see if this works 16:35:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:54 Napkin: do you know if Usage Statistics counts the webtiles players? 16:38:12 definitely does 16:38:31 ok 16:42:23 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:40 mgen_data.h incorrectly states location of mon_summon_type enum (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4467) by mumra 16:47:25 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:46 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:56 heya 16:48:09 <-- needs himself some trunk windows binaries 16:48:17 any reason those are still 0.9? 16:48:58 perhaps in the fury of the tournament everyone forgot 16:49:30 who do i need to poke to get them updated? 16:49:49 napkin? 16:49:51 maybe Napkin? 16:50:05 well, i guess hes poked now 16:50:10 uuh.. 16:50:13 tomorrow 16:50:19 zu spät jetzt ;) 16:50:28 i know 16:52:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:51 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:45 -!- Chousuke has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:03:21 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:50 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:52 -!- ion has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:26 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:38 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:09 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:37 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:08 !messages 17:30:10 (1/1) dtsund said (1h 12m 35s ago): Code cleanup suggestion: put a SK_LAST_MAGIC_SCHOOL = SK_POISON_MAGIC in enum.h, and use that instead where the code uses SK_POISON_MAGIC to mean highest magic skill. Should insulate against potential changes. 17:30:18 dtsund: good idea 17:30:50 SK_LAST_MAGIC = SK_POISON_MAGIC, 17:31:00 already there :p 17:32:02 * due spanks people who check against SK_POISON_MAGIC! :o 17:32:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:05 right, what are those "last" enums used for? 17:34:21 to check against all enums in some range? 17:35:32 if (given_enum_val < LAST_IN_SOME_RANGE) 17:35:55 ie to check that the value is in a given range 17:36:12 like how sif only likes training magic skills, not any skill 17:36:23 but wouldn't there also need to be a "FIRST" enum somewhere? 17:36:31 for each category you want a range for? 17:36:50 is there not? 17:36:57 the other option is to use the previous LAST 17:36:58 I have no idea 17:37:04 ah, good point 17:37:35 yeah, LAST_MUNDANE 17:37:44 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:35 seems like there ought to be a better way to do this :P sort of late at this point, though 17:39:26 there probably are better ways 17:40:10 03kilobyte * r8bd967e333dc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/simple.des: Whitespace fixes. 17:40:11 03pete * r8fb3aca69b0e 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: Fix misleading comment in mgen_data.h 17:40:12 03kilobyte * rcd8171188d3e 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Let felids weapon-swap stones for Sandblast or arrows for Sticks to Snakes. 17:40:21 03kilobyte * r5a1222b911b5 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Don't put food into inventory slot 'y' if this can be avoided. 17:40:25 03kilobyte * r582189167f22 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Fix Healers not getting one of their potions. 17:40:25 03kilobyte * r6f51713edefd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Don't use SK_POISON_MAGIC in loops as "last magic school". 17:40:39 kilobyte is good 17:40:54 yay kilobyte :) 17:41:33 Ok, I kind of got monks to work. Needs some (a lot of) polish, but it's cool. 17:41:39 Project for tomorrow :D 17:42:42 ghallberg: you rock! 17:42:50 wow thx kilobyte 17:42:56 ghallberg: monks all over the world will include you in their prayers :) 17:43:38 hm, i suddenly recall some interesting typo i saw in a des file 17:43:40 0.10 will feature the reign of the hill orc monk 17:44:16 -!- gnsh has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- rkd has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- aristid has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- krel has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- ghallberg has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 17:44:16 hehe 17:44:27 !lm * br.enter=spider 17:44:27 4032. [2011-08-30] Tanru the Nimble (L13 HEWz) entered a Spider's Nest (Lair:2) 17:44:34 !lm * br.enter=bailey 17:44:36 12564. [2011-08-30] Wop the Stinger (L10 DsVM) entered a Bailey on turn 11269. (D:8) 17:46:03 yeah, spider.des:85 s/Nest/Nest./ i think 17:46:09 03galehar 07mimics * r8bd3ce093c48 10/crawl-ref/source/ (20 files): Merge all the feature mimics into a single monster type. 17:46:17 03galehar 07mimics * r10a7876a8a7d 10/crawl-ref/source/terrain.cc: Rename stair mimic to staircase mimic. 17:46:18 03galehar 07mimics * rdebb87631079 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc dungeon.h mapdef.cc mapdef.h): Add 2 new vault tags: mimic and no_mimic. 17:46:18 03galehar 07mimics * rbce3ac8d5bab 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des: No stairs down mimics in minmay_temple_entry_from_below. 17:46:46 hahaha 17:47:06 :< 17:47:18 !lg * place=temple killer=~mimic 17:47:19 No games for * (place=temple killer=~mimic). 17:47:44 Impy (L16 SpAK) ASSERT(m_ref_count >= 0) in 'tilemcache.h' at line 43 failed. (Vault:8) 17:49:00 yeah, the spider milestone doesn't have a ., which i think makes sequell not add the "on turn x" bit at the end 17:49:28 i'd make a one-character patch, but uh... 17:51:14 Zannick: tell me what to do, and I can commit it 17:52:21 source/dat/des/spider.des:85: crawl.mark_milestone("br.enter", "entered a Spider's Nest", true) 17:52:27 should be 17:52:30 source/dat/des/spider.des:85: crawl.mark_milestone("br.enter", "entered a Spider's Nest.", true) 17:52:47 okay, I rely on you 17:52:54 * dpeg is stumbling blindly in the dark. 17:53:07 that matches with the other portals 17:53:08 er 17:53:15 source/dat/des/portals/spider.des 17:53:38 it is just adding the period :) 17:53:42 yes 17:53:53 no harm can be done, and it is good for the bot, right? 17:54:11 yes, i believe so 17:54:12 .learn add famous_last_words 17:54:20 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:20 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:34 !lg * ckiller=a pandemonium lord 17:56:34 365. Margery the Imperceptible (L24 SpEn), worshipper of Ashenzari, demolished by Guarurghas in Pandemonium on 2011-08-30, with 422291 points after 78395 turns and 9:38:03. 17:56:47 !lg * ckiller=a pandemonium lord -2 17:56:47 364. xomscumming the Skirmisher (L4 MuCK), worshipper of Xom, slain by Sigmund the orange rat on D:3 on 2011-08-30, with 144 points after 8166 turns and 0:04:22. 17:57:18 !lg * killer=wiglaf x=ckiller 17:57:18 84. [ckiller=a pandemonium lord] Duckman the Fetichist (L15 MDFi), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, demolished by Wiglaf (a +1,+0 dwarven war axe) on Vault:1 on 2011-08-26, with 84909 points after 32846 turns and 3:23:59. 17:57:35 okay, now that the tourney's over i might take a crack at that 17:58:08 03dpeg * r9c4feedcfa75 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/spider.des: Fix spider portal vault milestone message (Zannick). 17:58:10 statistics on CAO are correct, Napkin be praised 17:58:21 cheers! 17:58:34 and morgue links are next, Zannick ;) 17:58:44 Napkin: yay :) 17:59:04 tomorrow though, 1am! 17:59:06 g'night o/ 17:59:23 night p/ 17:59:25 o/ * 18:03:05 dpeg: also, thanks :D 18:03:19 -!- rkd has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:19 -!- gnsh has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- aristid has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- krel has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- ghallberg has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:28 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 18:04:08 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * r951a52237e03 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/ (entry_large.des large.des): Rename entry/large.des so it doesn't conflict with variable/large.des 18:04:08 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * re8ad7bc799cc 10/crawl-ref/source/util/gen-apt.pl: Don't list Octopodes in aptitudes.txt 18:04:09 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * rd9698e19fe3b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large.des: A dummy edit to variable/large.des so the timestamp is updated. 18:05:26 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:30 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:30 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:11 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:53 -!- BirdoPrey has left ##crawl-dev 18:07:39 dpeg: question regarding webs alerting spiders. i was thinking of using the noise code, which would require adding some flag for noises caused by webs, so only spiders hear it, and it'd mean it propagated properly. alternately, i could do something simpler which just affected spiders in LOS. what do you think and what kind of range did you imagine for the effect? 18:08:30 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:33 kilobyte: GreatZebu has a patch which does not depend on the des file names. 18:08:40 mumra: look up the blood 'ping' code 18:08:48 vampires and hounds/wolves can smell blood spilled 18:09:34 could make this a generalized 'sense' function if you wanted - those sense blood, spiders sense webs, maybe ghost moths sense MP expenditure? 18:09:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:31 eronarn: yes, already seen it, it basically uses a los method 18:11:57 mumra: it doesn't make sense to call spiders from more than LOS away (or a bit more) -- after that, you've escaped the net already 18:12:43 wait - sorry, blood smell doesn't use LOS, they can smell it thru walls i think 18:12:45 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:12:47 yes, they can 18:13:02 it uses a distance range, so it's not propagated dynamically like noise 18:13:07 but it's not LOS, either 18:13:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:39 kilobyte: your minimal vaults for spider mention a "snake nest" 18:15:53 probably meant to be spider? 18:17:51 first line 18:18:10 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:08 03kilobyte * r76fd7ef9bb43 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Force the new game species menu into three columns. 18:20:18 03kilobyte * r2a51ea332b62 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Fix broken copypasta. 18:21:07 Galefury: right, guess where the file's structure comes from... 18:21:12 :) 18:21:26 new branch swap options: snake nest, spider pit 18:21:55 slime nest 18:22:04 lair of the shoals 18:22:24 Elven Mines 18:22:46 still need to get on making that Dwarven Fortress branch 18:22:54 swapping elf and orc sometimes might actually be pretty interesting 18:22:58 Vestibule of the Temple 18:23:13 would require some new enemies of course, and new branch ends 18:23:15 kilobyte: a multi-level temple done with lua would be kind of cool 18:23:15 but could be cool 18:24:46 Galefury: personally i favor making dwarf/elf be swaps, and then finding something else to swap with orcs 18:24:47 Eronarn: a little tedious to search through, if you have a god in mind already 18:25:02 like Kobold Warrens 18:25:05 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:15 Goblin Mines 18:25:25 nah, we don't need more mines 18:25:41 goblin den! goblin armory! goblin kingdoms! goblin caves! 18:26:08 With David Bowie at the end! 18:26:19 Gnoll Knolls 18:26:21 How about Kennels? 18:26:28 Dogs. lots of dogs. 18:26:32 and hounds. 18:26:34 etc. 18:26:42 kennels would be a cool portal vault, or bailey variant 18:26:46 but not nearly enough for a branch 18:26:50 yeah, not a branch 18:26:54 Eronarn: yeah, dwarf plus a swap for orc would be better 18:26:57 but more work 18:26:59 unless we could do like Hound High Priest 18:27:03 <|amethyst> there's a kennels option for Lair:8 18:27:09 well there's still no unliving branch/portal 18:27:15 golems etc 18:27:20 rkd: tukima 18:27:24 an orc swap would have to have a lot of gold and shops 18:27:31 not necessarily 18:27:37 shoals doesnt have poison 18:27:44 just an example ^^ 18:27:47 it has sea snakes 18:27:52 it'd need to have something that could replace a lot of gold and shops - like very good loot 18:28:01 it's not a lot of poison, but... 18:28:07 setting up a new branch is a lot of work 18:28:08 say, a dragon's hoard at the end 18:28:10 <|amethyst> something kenku-based 18:28:11 <|amethyst> ? 18:28:11 well the gold in orc is good 18:28:14 I think it's better when swapped branches still provide the same benefits, doesn't matter what the threat is really 18:28:21 it's the lategame gold loots that are pointless 18:28:27 or well 18:28:28 zigs 18:28:40 i agree, zigs are pointless 18:28:47 i had an idea for a dwarven factory branch making golems and weapons, with loads of conveyor belts, switches, stuff like that 18:28:51 but i didn't write it up yet 18:29:01 mumra: my dwarven fortress writeup was similar in that it had a lot of lua-y things 18:29:02 sounds annoying 18:29:08 mumra: make that a dwarven halls ending 18:29:17 the forge 18:29:18 stuff like complex dwarven traps 18:29:21 sounds good :) 18:29:31 hey, so people are actually working on dwarf 18:29:32 cool 18:29:37 Galefury: i don't think anyone is coding it 18:29:48 was thinking conveyors with crushers and burners that you have to time your way past 18:29:49 so what? 18:29:50 i have wanted to do it for a few years but i just don't have the time 18:29:50 <|amethyst> Eronarn: nobles' rooms that mysteriously flood with lava? :) 18:29:51 i think dwarf got a little sidelined 18:29:51 though at least the monster set is already started 18:29:52 design is work too 18:30:02 no it's not 18:30:08 design is procrastination! 18:30:21 procrastination is work too 18:30:25 btw, speaking of code, who wants to adopt some of mine? 18:30:30 Eronarn: why are ziggurats pointless? 18:30:46 i have some projects which are largely implemented, but i would like to see people bring to completion so they don't just die 18:31:02 Ziggurats are good for turning wins into splats! 18:31:14 for example, profane servitor: an A made from an angel impaled by a demon trident, which grants a halo of darkness around it, to be given as a Yred gift 18:31:27 ziggurats are also a way to get your hands at some more consumables 18:31:44 dpeg: was a joke :) they are a bit superfluous as commonly used, but not totally so 18:32:07 Eronarn: that sounds really corny 18:32:15 also, ziggurats are for when you get bored with pan 18:32:19 which usually happens really quickly 18:32:42 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:43 hint hint 18:32:44 so it's strictly a farming thing? ;) 18:32:49 Eronarn: regarding blood_smell; one way i could generalise it would be adding a virtual detect_sense function on actor.cc, and making a new enum for sense_type; does that sound reasonable? 18:32:55 Galefury: it's quite cool looking, and it has a functional purpose: halo and antihalo cancel out, and undead receive the benefits of antihalo but do not get a penalty for attacking antihaloed things 18:33:30 mumra: that sounds reasonable, yes. i might express it in such a way that you can show it in monster stats 18:33:30 sounds nice, but angel impaled by a demon trident, really? 18:33:35 like 'detect blood 20' or whatever 18:34:09 Galefury: i don't see what's cornier about that than death cobs 18:34:18 i ought to rework my old old old shapeshifter unique into something reasonable 18:34:23 hoho cornier 18:34:45 that actually made me chuckle 18:35:11 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:14 yeah, I don't like the "impaled" theme, but it's in no way required for the monster to work 18:35:22 sure, it could be changed 18:35:24 <3 cornier 18:35:31 for example, it could just be undead parts made into the form of an angel in mockery 18:35:44 who's the corniest? 18:36:14 the point is to provide something that is of bone dragon level of fun/power, but with some of that power going to a tactical benefit rather than raw stats 18:36:28 the antihalo lets your undead get a defensive bonus, more or less 18:36:36 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:58 the question is whether there's enough reason in having a new sort-of-holiness when demons are already unholy angels, but that's a theme question 18:37:21 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:40 kilobyte: it's not a new holiness, it's just an undead with an A glyph 18:37:43 nothing fundamentally wrong with the monster 18:37:54 undead not a demon? 18:38:10 it could be a demon, but isn't currently, because flavor-wise it's a Yred gift 18:38:11 whats yreds flavor btw, is he evil? 18:38:19 and Yred is just undead, no demons 18:38:59 giving antihalo to some of the shadow demons could be cool, though 18:39:13 like give it to shadow wraiths (so they're invis but you can spot them because they're moving patches of darkness) 18:40:49 can antihalos have frayed edges? 18:41:01 (i like the interplay it has with halo, currently: you'd get something like xxxxAxx..ooAoooo as an angel and antiangel approach each other) 18:41:02 that sounds pretty cool 18:41:09 Galefury: they just work like halos, but of darkness 18:41:19 they are literally just halos, but with their bonuses *-1 18:41:29 so acc penalty, stealth bonus 18:41:37 yeah, but frayed edges would be nice imo 18:41:44 and don't negate invis? 18:41:48 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:48 i dont know why, it just feels right to me 18:41:48 Zannick: right 18:42:07 but would be annoying to code 18:42:10 probably not worth it 18:42:16 Galefury: we could make them visually distinct, sure... like have a coinflip chance for any given tile on the edge to be removed, or to grow one, changing every few turns 18:42:24 i could certainly see it looking interesting 18:42:33 though it might do weird things when it interacts with a static halo 18:42:50 hm, not weird imo, but cool 18:42:56 slightly fluctuating spheres of power 18:42:59 no, you just keep track of where the antihalo is and the halo is 18:43:16 just noting that some squares have both 18:43:21 like anime fights where they shoot beams at each other and the center where they hit wobbles back and forth 18:43:21 well, that's one possibility 18:43:45 anyways, the code is on my github, and it works :) 18:44:19 you seem to have a lot of crazy but cool ideas 18:44:30 the problems were: 1) making it drop a demon trident when it dies (can be removed if people don't like flavor) 2) there is an issue with the 'shrouded' description using a bitmask that is full - kilobyte knows more about how that works 3) it has not been touched in months, so it will be out of date with trunk 18:44:33 octopodes, lava orcs, weird angels with antihalos 18:44:52 if you axe 1, fix 3 (should be easy), then all that is left is 2 and they are ready to go 18:45:00 Galefury: i did forest wyrms too! 18:45:04 they breathe forests at you 18:45:11 oh i read about those on mantis 18:45:30 swarms are another one that is coded, and largely working, but needing polish 18:46:11 swarms? 18:46:38 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:42 yes; swarms of very small creatures (like normal sized bees, or dancing knives or arrows) 18:46:50 -!- rkd has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:52 -!- st__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:03 they are a hybrid of a cloud and a creature 18:47:04 so they get weaker when you hit them? 18:47:32 Galefury: currently you can't attack them in melee; the only thing that works to kill them is having them over water/lava or putting another cloud in their space (iirc) 18:47:44 eronarn: for monster stats, do you mean e.g. the information gretell gives? 18:47:49 the idea is that you can hit them with AOE spells (like fireball) but not stuff like magic dart 18:47:52 mumra: yeah 18:48:31 do you know where it picks the information up from? was going to add M_SMELL_BLOOD and M_SENSE_WEB in mon-flags.h 18:48:45 mumra: it's its own branch of code 18:48:46 but i can't see how the other flags there get translated to gretell's text 18:48:49 i think due would know where it is 18:49:03 what about fighters, they just die to swarms? 18:49:21 due: are you around? 18:49:22 Galefury: swarms decay, like clouds 18:49:30 ohhh 18:49:33 but they can move? 18:49:39 yeah - and specifically, they can have AI 18:49:49 sounds pretty sweet 18:49:51 like one of the spells going to use swarms is 'spark spray' 18:49:59 it makes clouds of sparks, which preferentially follow people with lots of metal 18:50:29 physically that makes no sense, because physics 18:50:35 but thats true for all lightning spells 18:50:37 and all spells 18:50:54 Eronarn: the manual is lacking a section on Octopodes 18:50:56 on the other hand, swarms of bees will just go after whatever is closest 18:51:11 and mosquito swarms would ignore things with no blood 18:51:30 kilobyte: hm, can you email me a reminder about that? i can write one, but i can't recall how long it needs to be 18:52:54 Did we agree on if octopodes should get some ink power? 18:53:45 dpeg: strong no from me 18:54:12 i would prefer giving them a poison chance on their tentacles, better stealth, or constriction - stuff that will help more early game than late game 18:56:00 btw, with the HP boost - we might be able to go back down to AC 0 for octos 18:56:07 it was... +2? +3? 18:56:31 +3 18:56:54 mumra: yes 18:56:56 bats were the main reason for it, anyways, and now fighting them should be a lot less bad 18:57:06 so it's worth considering reverting (possibly when we give them constriction or something) 18:57:14 if they're getting something different to help early game then it might be fun, yeah 18:58:24 i think a powerful constriction could be the way to go - so they're at least as good at fighting stuff one on one as other races, early game 18:58:32 but much worse at vs. groups 18:59:00 reception to reaching has been lukewarm and it's unfriendly to new players 18:59:03 I should probably make a constriction implementable for nagas. 18:59:05 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:32 dpeg: why not do it at the same time as we're addressing webs? let webs, nets, constriction have some unified way of assessing penalties 18:59:49 that'd be cool 18:59:57 they share a lot of overlap in things like how teleports should affect them 19:00:55 (btw, i think it would be cool to give krakens a lot less per-hit damage but a very powerful constriction attack) 19:01:34 they're not the same 19:01:44 for example, constriction should build up damage 19:02:23 they're not the same, but they are similar enough that having all kinds of 'thing wrapped around you' effects use the same function as a framework makes a lot of sense 19:02:54 hence the implementable 19:03:18 right, just pointing out that it is better if we link them together - since there's already nets, and now webs too 19:03:19 we want web traps for 0.10, I am not sure we'll get constriction for .10 (and yes, a uniform treatment would be good) 19:03:47 well, we want octos for .10 since they didn't make it into .9 - and constriction would be good for them. so i certainly hope it gets in 19:03:59 i'm willing to help out conceptually with it, but i can't really spare coding time, sadly 19:04:19 good night 19:04:20 due: did you see conv between me and eronarn about monster stats, smell blood, and sense webs? 19:04:40 -!- Galefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:45 mumra: vaguely, yes 19:04:58 @??shark 19:04:59 shark (16;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 18, 9 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 204. 19:05:06 could go right in Flags: 19:05:20 'sense blood X' (if things even have variable values for it ,i can't recall if they do) 19:05:25 actually, there's already a flag for smell blood 19:05:35 so why doesn't gretell show it? 19:05:42 because stuff has to be manually added 19:05:43 flags are just yes/no 19:05:54 gretell is a separate codebase 19:06:06 so probably doesn't know to show it/look for it 19:06:11 anyways, time to go home and see if i have power yet :( 19:06:22 been out since early sunday 19:07:43 due: i could make a generic sense function with a new sense_type enum, and add a check_sense function in monster.cc and player.cc; but actually it's just moving code into an already huge file, just to add one extra case which will behave somewhat differently anyway 19:08:19 or, i could just add a new web_vibrates function in traps.cc which is basically copied from blood_smell, but modified for web detection ... 19:10:27 eronarn thought there could be other uses for sense (e.g. ghost moths sense MP use) but it's a pretty small function anyway so is it worth turning it into a generic case? 19:11:11 (nn eronarn!) 19:11:41 Eronarn: it seems strange Octopodes have +1 Evo -- tentacles don't seem that good for messing with gadgets to me. 19:12:40 Eronarn: also, I find it weird they are not good with throwing (javelins in water) but ok with bows and crossbows -- which require fingers for good operation 19:13:23 in general, all weapon and magic skills (except Poison) are at 0 19:15:48 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:14 -!- Mu_ has quit [*.net *.split] 19:16:14 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [*.net *.split] 19:16:17 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:18 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:17:11 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:30 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:48 -!- Mu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:22:53 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:15 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:12 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:48 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:01 dpeg: 75% chance of ALL spiders being alerted, or 75% for EACH spider ? 19:33:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:42:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:12 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:09 mumra: for each spider 19:53:58 individually 19:54:01 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 19:55:48 kilobyte: Ah, must have been new in 0.9. 19:55:52 * dtsund shakes fist at ninjas 19:58:37 foreach(spider){}? 20:03:44 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:12 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:50 -!- gnsh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:16 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:19 dpeg: good, that's how i've done it! 20:28:09 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:55 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:33 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:59 Two hats of pondering generated (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4468) by BirdoPrey 20:56:15 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:51 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:59:14 Wensley: should web traps be on the 0.10 list? 22:10:32 03kilobyte * red426862ffef 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Remove 0.9 Octopode checks. 22:10:33 03kilobyte * r1422032f84d0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (rltiles/dc-feat.txt tilepick.cc): Greatly simplify selection of web tile flavour. 22:10:33 03kilobyte * r0001daee8e34 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h travel.cc): Reorder DNGN_TRAP enums on next compat break. 22:10:33 03kilobyte * r6373aee81765 10/crawl-ref/source/ (21 files in 4 dirs): ontoclasm's new tiles for Crypt. 22:10:33 03pete * r545ad87ee9ce 10/crawl-ref/source/ (29 files in 4 dirs): Web trap initial implementation 22:10:34 03kilobyte * r19a43b852cb9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Don't give Gastronok the hat of Pondering if it was generated elsewhere. 22:10:44 03kilobyte * r8b54452bc0b2 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Simplify messaging a bit. 22:10:44 03kilobyte * r0a68e8cfdeea 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix monsters stumbling into webs being netted as well. 22:10:44 03kilobyte * rc6d72e673767 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix players being netted too. 22:10:44 03kilobyte * rd56b3e8651d6 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Give a message stating why a non-spider monster is immune to webs. 22:10:46 03kilobyte * r3852ca96729a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/spider.des directn.cc mapdef.cc): s/web trap/web/ 22:10:46 03kilobyte * r9e6dcc6c39c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/features.txt l_you.cc): A description for webs. 22:12:44 commit-commit-commit-commit-commit-commit-commit-PUSH 22:20:09 03kilobyte * rcd361de40028 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-dngn/traps/ (12 files): Optimize web PNGs. 22:31:24 hey Wensley I made a catoblepas lair I told you about, want to see it? It might need some tweaking still 22:31:28 kilobyte: i think there's a problem with travel.cc - DNGN_UNDISCOVERED_TRAP will be marked non-traversible - i think 22:31:49 evilmike: I'd love to 22:34:01 http://pastebin.com/YWW027Jg 22:34:29 set as a lair ending right now, if you want to make it generate add a line like WEIGHT: 100000 22:35:58 note that its built so the only guaranteed chokepoint backs you into a catoblepas 22:36:11 although in practice you can probably find a safer one made of plants 22:41:11 which file should I stick this in to test it? 22:42:37 mumra: ook 22:44:10 03kilobyte * ra93dd5f167e1 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Fix a missing #ifdef for old order of enums. 22:46:47 Wensley: paste it into lair.des 22:48:44 Also - player_caught_in_web has a message that says "net" - actually it can just be deleted since the "caught in a web" message has already been displayed 22:49:57 Apart from that, looks good :) 22:52:56 evilmike: I like it, although perhaps it could use a catoblepas somewhere in the middle instead of just at the beginning and end, or perhaps the catoblepas from the very beginning could have a 50% chance to spawn somewhere in the middle 22:53:18 looks really cool though, I'm excited :) 22:54:02 randomizing the location of it could work, i like having them in rooms made of stone though 22:54:53 only two catoblepae? doesn't the dire elephant ending have more dire elephants than that? and the demons one more demons? I guess those are both at least slightly hidden away though 22:55:02 the other thing is the first one is a lot less dangerous than the second, its pretty easy to dodge the first one's breath 22:55:48 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:56:48 and yeah there are layouts with a lot of dire elephants, those are less dangerous enemies though (dispite being worth way more xp) 22:57:05 i'm thinking maybe there could be a 3rd catoblepas, with one of the yaks being randomly replaced by it 22:57:54 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:57 the wizard in the demons ending can be pretty dangerous too 22:58:09 also, note that some lair endings are less threatening than others 22:58:21 i think this one is probably somewhere in the middle 22:59:54 How much loot does this one have relative to elephants/frogs? 23:00:29 it has better loot than the frogs one (the frogs one is very easy) 23:00:30 I have some difficulty parsing vault code 23:00:34 slightly less than the elephant one 23:01:50 Frogs one being very easy hasn't been my experience; I find a lot of the others noticeably easier 23:02:43 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:29 to be exact, it has 4 random floor items, one star item, one superb item (these two can be good, but can be junk too), and one acquirement item (tends to be good) 23:03:30 and some gold 23:05:03 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:26 the acquirement quality item might be worth changing into another | 23:07:38 i think for a lair ending - it could easily have 5 or 6 catoblepae - you could easily meet 2 of them just wandering normally around the lair for instance 23:08:09 in 0.9 i only saw one catoblepas, over 4 lair visits 23:08:12 and maybe a few petrified past heroes who tried to come down there? 23:08:14 and one more in the dungeon 23:08:36 the statues can be of adventurers, it's random in tiles 23:09:59 did this commit increase the frequency of catoblepas: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/73bcd2f7986a70df60185c657b08c61ab0b951a7 23:10:20 mumra: elliptic did increase the frequency at some point, yes 23:10:38 I actually have a friend who, today on his 0.10 ddee, found four catlobes on the same level 23:10:45 which seems like a fluke 23:10:49 Maybe have the statues be named after players, like Medusa's Island in NetHack? 23:11:21 you can actually force which tile the statues use, if you wanted 23:11:44 i'm not sure if dungeon features can be named individually like that 23:11:46 "A statue of evilmike, spriggan venom mage of Xom." 23:11:57 It'd probably require some C++ coding... 23:12:05 nope, you can rename things in lua 23:12:09 it would be pretty easy to tell all the statues to use a certain tile, or have a certain description 23:12:20 you can set titles and descriptions 23:12:27 i think some of the wizlabs do it 23:12:31 yeah 23:12:50 i made a crypt vault with statues that are gravestones (stole it from a wizlab) 23:13:11 ah nice, i was thinking crypt should have a graveyard 23:13:25 one of the funny things is if you do that, it winds up renaming all statues on the level. so for example, if i made petrified trees there, a tree on the opposite side of the level would be petrified :P 23:13:46 that was what happened when i tried this sort of thing for another vault, anyway 23:13:48 NetHack has a similar quirk 23:14:15 If you play, say, a Valkyrie, who starts with a +3 small shield, all initially generated small shields on D:1 are +3, I think 23:15:01 anyway, i kind of like how the statues have random tiles.. it makes sense that petrified adventurers would be mixed in with various other things 23:15:02 hmm, shame if there's no way around it 23:15:42 yeah true 23:16:41 you know, i keep thinking there should be more plant tiles. there's just this one plant that grows everywhere and looks kind of like a tuft of grass... 23:18:05 what if I add a second catoblepas to the room with loot and then a 4th random one anywhere in the cave 23:18:24 to me that seems a bit too much 23:18:46 yeah, might be 23:19:01 I think three would work, if you added one in the middle somewhere at random 23:19:14 I like the idea of randomly swapping one yak for a catlobe 23:19:15 branch ends are supposed to be hard, tho 23:19:27 it's just lair, it has the easiest branch ends 23:20:43 Lair branch end should be noticeably harder than regular Lair, but not as bad as a regular branch end. 23:20:55 evilmike: maybe you could have some regions of the cave have muddy terrain, as per leda's? 23:20:58 Serves as a warning to the player. 23:21:06 Wensley: do you know how to do that? 23:21:32 evilmike: I think leda's mud is just brown shallow water, could you just put shallow water in places, color the glyph brown and customize the description? 23:21:44 it's not water... 23:22:03 isn't it? I haven't really played many earth elementalists :P 23:22:14 !lg . class=ee 23:22:14 No games for Wensley (class=ee). 23:22:28 when monsters cast it, it even gives the player a special slow movement status effect 23:22:55 and it has weird effects, like preventing you from flying 23:24:01 might need to ask the person who implemented the spell, then 23:24:20 in any case, I'm off to bed. good night! thanks again for the awesome vault :) 23:27:04 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 23:28:53 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:39:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:37 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:44 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev