00:07:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-360-g07851d8 (32) 00:14:09 -!- Guest1402 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:31 -!- Guest1402 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:14 -!- azaq231 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:10 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:56 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:37 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:36:18 -!- azaq231 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:59 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 02:24:41 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:48 moin 03:02:55 moin Napkin 03:02:56 Zaba: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:03:03 !messages 03:03:03 (1/1) kilobyte said (12h 26m 44s ago): how can I tell apart map symbols delve() should possibly dig into from those already clear or those that shouldn't be touched? 03:03:16 hey Zaba :) 03:08:47 !tell kilobyte If you need more than just telling rock walls from floor, there is probably no existing mechanism that you could reuse. 03:08:48 Zaba: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 03:20:47 Zaba: even just rock tends to use different symbols in different vaults if any substs are involved 03:20:47 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:21:23 should I assume it's just 'x' at the moment? 03:21:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:23:04 "clear terrain" is more complex: 1234567890, dfghijk, shops, traps, shallow water, etc are all passable 03:24:20 for walls, a string listing values to be classified as delveable should be enough (defaulting to "x"), not so sure about clear 03:24:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:28:55 kilobyte, er, wait, you're not supposed to do whatever you're doing ;P 03:30:08 quite possible :p 03:30:43 kilobyte, what is it you're trying to do? 03:31:06 make delve() calleable from Lua 03:31:30 kilobyte, for what purposes? 03:32:08 all squares need to be either "delveable", "already dug" or "untouchable" 03:32:28 to let it be used in map generators, duh 03:32:51 kilobyte, well, make it take 'replace' and 'fill' paramters like dgn.spotty_map does 03:33:31 kilobyte, also, see traversable_glyphs in l_dgnbld.cc 03:33:35 right, that's basically what I said about strings 03:33:42 some things use it 03:34:19 kilobyte, but, well, lua map generators work in a vault of their own, so it's not like they're going to encounter any strange glyphs unless they place them themselves 03:34:43 just what I wanted; vaults that redefine things can pass non-defaults 03:34:44 kilobyte, it also means they can't be used to fill a level with a primary vault on it, you need to write such builders in C++ 03:35:01 hrmblah 03:36:15 delving an empty map and then forcing a vault onto it looks damn bad, placing the vault first and delving later is much better 03:38:17 kilobyte, well, then it needs to be in C++, and it needs to respect MMT_VAULT. And then you will probably need a vault exit connectivity function that mimics delve. 03:41:47 I did try having delve provide connectivity on its own, it's bad there. It's better to make a ready (irregular!) connector and make it a seed. This means, doing connectivity before delve is ok. 03:42:41 ("seed" is anything already dug out whose neighbours are diggable non-forbidden) 03:44:44 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:04 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:54 actually, it wouldn't be much work to provide both 03:47:56 one last question: how can I tell a lua map is going to be placed at grd boundary (and thus its edges are forbidden)? 03:49:02 AFAIK only encompass/north/... vaults can be 03:49:12 no, float vaults can be docked 03:49:46 that's a good question 03:50:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:01 only float but not mini, right? 03:51:32 beh, no one will delve minis anyway 03:52:29 so for now I should require explicitely marking exits with @ or . then, I guess 03:52:30 kilobyte, minivaults are always MAPGEN_BORDER away from the real grd boundary 03:53:18 kilobyte, uh. 03:53:56 exit logic is kind of complicated, it'd really be bad to duplicate (or indeed partly duplicate) it anywhere... 03:54:33 if floats can be placed at the physical edge, they'd put floor there... and that'd cause asserts 03:55:13 "Docking will only succeed if two contiguous edges are all x/c/b/v (other walls prevent docking)." 03:58:16 ah, so if delving will spill there, the map will be placed with a margin, right? 03:58:52 sounds good... the designer can put X if that's unwanted and subst it away after calling delve() 04:04:24 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:27 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:09 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:20 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:44 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:39 jpeg and I are discussing Hive 04:10:55 Would anyone mind if I put my wiki ideas into an implementable? 04:18:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:26 Napkin: Sigh, spammers :9 04:26:07 yeah 04:26:27 closed comments for blog entries older than 30 days temporarily 04:28:10 what happened? 04:28:26 assault, stupidity? 04:28:37 spammers trying to see if their comments are published 04:28:47 on the wordpress 04:28:52 happens once in a while 04:29:08 it's a sick world 04:29:21 closing comments all together puts them off for a short while 04:29:57 Though there actually seemes to be one validcomment. 04:30:05 yes 04:30:11 i already went through them 04:30:20 *worked 04:30:26 :D 04:30:30 <3 Napkin. 04:30:38 :) 04:30:45 I noticed it start last night. 04:31:02 I take it that nobody minds if I make the Hive an implementable :) 04:31:23 * due waves dpeg. 04:32:24 Napkin: you're holding a tournament, did you know? It's a blast! Even jpeg is playing!! 04:33:07 correction, we/you guys are holding a tourney ;) 04:33:29 hehe, it is really cool 04:33:33 and yeah, jpeg playing is great :) 04:33:39 still webtiles, right? 04:33:43 yes 04:33:59 there should be many ideas flowing in afterwards to enhance it :)) 04:34:03 elliptic set up great rules (he wasn't alone, but I forgot the contributors), and the winner is not fully settled yet 04:35:08 dpeg: about my previous concerns about Hive: I don't care about the branch itself, it is indeed ugly. What I do care about is randomly screwing certain chars (troll all-runers, spriggans with a food mutation) out of a resource that is impossible to replace. 04:35:42 about jpeg: let's see if we can get her to learn the real console ;p 04:36:04 did you guys check webtiles yet? 04:36:27 it's mostly still console, apart from the mini-map and the playview tiles 04:36:31 What is the actual hive implementable? 04:36:37 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:39 Napkin: stress on _tiles_, that's where the suckage is :p 04:36:53 lol, shut up ;-P 04:37:07 kilobyte: she is trying to get me to play tiles :) 04:37:08 Napkin: the problem is, the signal-to-noise ratio is too low 04:37:38 Well, I think if I got used to tiles, it would be okay. 04:37:43 i'm already poking edlothiol to add a monster-list next ;) 04:37:43 But I get confused without my ascii :( 04:38:08 you can tell apart things at a glance if they use letters and one of 16 colours, with tiles you have to look closely at every critter 04:38:24 hence -> monster-list 04:38:27 kilobyte: well, once you get the hang of it, sure 04:38:33 (this is also an argument against 256 colours) 04:38:46 true 04:38:58 has anyone tried brogue yet? 04:39:01 kilobyte: yes, I am aware of the issues. I'll come up with something that takes Sp and Tr into account 04:39:18 i think it's million colors are great and really doesn't add confusion factor 04:39:20 kilobyte: but, if this were a significant issue, people wouldn't play tiles 04:39:35 dpeg: I wonder how to do that without giving heaps of food to everyone 04:40:09 perhaps reducing spoilable food and increasing permafood out of Hive would do the trick? 04:40:09 is sporkhack still alive? 04:40:20 Napkin: dormant 04:40:31 in hibernation 04:40:35 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:38 so is NLarn, right? 04:40:41 Napkin: if you use them correctly, they actually improve things 04:40:44 Napkin: yes 04:40:44 (310 days without changes) 04:41:10 kilobyte: part of the food reform is to cut chunk numbers in half -- do you mean this? 04:46:08 removed links to SporkHack & Nlarn, added link to Brogue 04:46:18 dpeg: if we ensure there's enough permafood for everyone, sounds fine. 04:47:20 Hm, I feel like playing with the idea of a Crawl variant. 04:47:22 Mummy crawl! 04:47:29 Every race is actually a mummified variant. 04:48:45 dpeg: currently randomly screwing people out of Hive would remove this safety, that's my beef with it. Like, Hive entrance on a disconnected level, or Hive before Lair and rPois. 04:49:15 kilobyte: don't worry, I don't plan on doing this 04:49:31 not sure if there'll be a timer at all, if so, it'd be extremely generous 04:49:36 Is this the conversion of Hive to portal vaults? 04:49:38 yes 04:49:41 Why not... yeah, just make them untimed? 04:49:48 yes, for a start we can do this 04:50:01 can adapt later on, so first version will be untimed 04:50:50 kilobyte: my plan is to have larvae eat royal jellies. But if you're prepared to spend resources (I am thinking of magic mapping, and teleport/blink, then you can get a lot of the loot -- like now) 04:51:22 * kilobyte can't wait for people who make a stash there not knowing about portalness :p 04:51:33 Trolls have an advantage that can carry so much, Spriggans have the advantage that they're quick (if we want, there could be a new trap type "hole", which only tiny creatures can pass) 04:51:38 kilobyte: hehe 04:51:48 That's progress :) 04:52:06 Chances of turnerjer leaving runes in higve? ;) 04:52:08 you still want hive to be 2 levels? 04:52:17 The main advantage of portalness in general is that you have just one try -- no going back to stashes, you have to man up 04:52:23 evilmike: no, just one 04:52:30 evilmike: it used to be four, blurgh 04:53:02 gah, yes 04:53:34 Do you recall how players campaigned for compensation for the loot/xp they miss from the Hive cut? :) 04:54:08 I've blocked it, likely. 04:54:13 did they really? the amount of xp would be worth just a few high level monsters 04:54:43 of course 04:55:00 plus, since only bees spawn in hive, you can scum it for as long as they spawn :P 04:55:02 most were happy for reduced tedium, truth to be told 04:55:03 no ood monsters there 04:55:14 evilmike: that's an evil thought 04:55:41 people use hive as a place for wrath scumming, sometimes 04:56:45 ah, gotta rework wrath too 04:59:16 btw, some traffic stats: 04:59:58 182gb used this month on crawl.develz.org (2.3gb via IPv6) 05:00:17 203gb used this month on tiles.crawl.develz.org (no IPv6 yet) 05:01:30 Napkin: can you see how many players took part in the tournament altogether (with webtiles), and how many wins? 05:01:40 no, i can't 05:02:00 but, i think webtiles got a different version tag in the milestones/logfiles 05:02:13 so it should be easy to check with sequel 05:02:22 ok 05:03:01 but i don't know how ;) 05:03:44 !lg * t s=v 05:03:45 35420 games for * (t): 21267x 0.9.0-a, 14153x 0.9.0 05:04:04 total traffic of CDO this month: 1170gb (385gb done by crawl (without counting email, git)) 05:05:10 v=0.9.0:lv=0.1:tiles=1:name=... 05:05:21 so, it seems it got an additional tag called "tiles" 05:06:04 Napkin: this is 35420 tournament games on CDO, with webtiles, but not counting CAO? 05:06:32 i don't know - i really have no clue how to use Sequell - evilmike? 05:06:48 that query was for all torunament games 05:07:05 there is a way to query just for specific servers though, but I cant remember 05:07:15 !lg * t org=cdo 05:07:15 Unknown selector: org 05:07:17 logfile contains 7796 entries with "tiles=1" 05:07:20 it's something=cdo 05:07:43 milestones contains 21275 entries with "tiles=1" 05:08:08 !lg * t 05:08:15 35451. Sebi the Magician (L1 DEWr), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2011-08-28, with 50 points after 5 turns and 0:00:04. 05:09:51 a scummer 05:10:25 !lg * t src=cdo 05:10:53 21298. Sebi the Magician (L1 DEWr), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2011-08-28, with 50 points after 5 turns and 0:00:04. 05:11:20 Sebi is a terrible scummer 05:13:05 so, that should mean 21298 games on cdo 05:13:05 a compulsive scummer? :) 05:13:05 how to count the wins? 05:13:05 almost 50% or morgues are his 05:13:05 *of morgues 05:13:05 oh my 05:13:05 ... but what does he scum for? 05:13:05 add "win" to the query 05:13:05 sebi is infamous for this 05:13:05 he startscums, I think 05:13:05 GDA in view on the initial screen? 05:13:05 no idea. it's weird looking at games that he actually decides to play - they don't tend to find anything remarkable 05:13:05 !lg * t win 05:13:05 211. flyschy the Conqueror (L27 DsVM), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 6 runes on 2011-08-28, with 2976731 points after 118977 turns and 13:15:46. 05:13:05 !lg * tiles=1 05:13:05 Unknown selector: tiles 05:13:05 pah 05:13:05 lies! 05:13:05 breakfast! 05:13:05 !lg * t=10 win 05:13:05 Unknown selector: t 05:13:05 sorry to clutter up space, where can I read up the syntax? 05:13:05 t10 should work 05:13:05 and t11a is the may one 05:13:05 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:43 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:43 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:17:06 okay, now I have read the syntax but still don't know how to let listgame give the number of players 05:17:42 yeah, it's pretty complicated. i always just ask ##crawl for complicated stuff like that 05:17:56 there are some people who seem to have the whole syntax memorized 05:18:17 I do the same, only that I have to ask here :) 05:18:36 I think I remember it 05:18:42 but it seems as if t11 is only at about 60% of t10 -- regression! :) 05:18:50 do you want the number of players who have won in each tourney? 05:18:50 t10 was a full month 05:18:57 monqy: took part, and won 05:19:01 ah 05:19:05 evilmike: oh, good point 05:19:16 !lg * t x=cdist(name) 05:19:16 i believe this tournament has had less activity than the may one, though 05:19:19 !lg * t won x=cdist(name) 05:19:21 * dpeg slaps himself with a cheesecake 05:19:23 I think that's it 05:19:34 monqy: and now Sequell is busy counting? 05:19:44 35476 games for * (t): cdist(name)=1312 05:19:47 211 games for * (t won): cdist(name)=110 05:19:58 awesome, many thanks to you guys 05:20:09 !lg * t10 x=cdist(name) 05:20:11 58428 games for * (t10): cdist(name)=1091 05:20:17 !lg * t10 won x=cdist(name) 05:20:17 321 games for * (t10 won): cdist(name)=109 05:20:28 Progression! 05:36:02 fasten your seatbelts, please 05:37:26 -!- aristid has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- gnsh has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- krel has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- ion has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:26 -!- ghallberg has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:27 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:27 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:27 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 05:37:58 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- ion has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:58 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:05 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 05:38:36 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:50 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:07 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:20 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:21 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:39 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:39 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:59 -!- monqy has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:59 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:59 -!- cbus has quit [*.net *.split] 05:39:59 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- aristid has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- gnsh has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- krel has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- ion has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:00 -!- ghallberg has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- MakMorn has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- Danei has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- ivan has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- Sequell has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- dpeg has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- zpmorgan has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- Henzell has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- edlothiol has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:01 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- rawrmage has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- Fyren has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- jlewis has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- evilmike has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- Eronarn has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- lorimer has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- due has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- CIA-34 has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- syllogism has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:02 -!- Twinge has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:03 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:03 -!- Guest1402 has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:03 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:03 -!- blackpenguin has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:03 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [*.net *.split] 05:40:47 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- ion has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- aristid has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Guest1402 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- jlewis has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- zpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- CIA-34 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Fyren has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:47 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:48 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:02 -!- monqy has quit [*.net *.split] 05:41:03 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 05:41:03 -!- cbus has quit [*.net *.split] 05:41:06 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 05:41:06 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 05:41:58 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:59 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:22 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:22 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:22 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [*.net *.split] 05:45:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:27 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:49:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:23 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:59:03 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:03 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:14:06 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:14:06 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:10 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:10 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:24:34 Napkin: what is going on here? 06:24:34 freenode redid some server connections 06:28:54 now everyone is good again? 06:34:32 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:35:17 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:17 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:46:26 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:40 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:47 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:47 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:52:26 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:05 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:57:48 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:49 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:08:01 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:52 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:52 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:09:51 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:45 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:31:46 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:15 -!- upsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:42:24 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:54 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:45 I got the same randart ring twice. 09:50:18 ha 09:50:25 exact same, in name and stats? 09:52:19 not name, both rElec SInv 09:52:23 Mu_: are you around? 09:52:27 Zaba could perhaps also help 09:52:56 what's up 09:53:09 can you look at my game on CDO? 09:53:24 ok 09:53:29 I've got your ancient champions vault on Crypt:1 09:53:44 but the vault seems to be placed without connection to the rest of the level 09:53:56 yeah that's normal 09:54:01 it has a downstair in it 09:54:02 how so? 09:54:08 so you have to get to it from the floor beneath 09:54:14 ah, cool 09:54:18 sorry to disturb 09:54:25 ;p 10:44:09 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:15 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:45 The leader in the tournament has just changed, it is pretty exciting. 10:54:37 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:17 !time 11:17:17 Time: Aug 28, 2011, 04:17:17 PM, UTC. The 2011 tournament ends in 7 hours, 42 minutes and 42 seconds. 11:17:51 soo... how do I use the new skill system? 11:19:14 Napkin: the manual part? 11:19:30 generally 11:19:49 leaving it on automatic will be similar to before? 11:21:17 Napkin: you can press ? in the m screen to bring up a more detailed explanation 11:21:34 pressed ??, yes 11:21:40 and reading already :) 11:21:44 good! :) 11:26:39 I am watching theglow, he is so damn effective. 11:26:52 Perhaps more effective than my nerfing hammer. 11:26:53 why is there a difference between "practise" with "-" & "+" and "focus" with "-" & "+" & "*" ? 11:27:42 Napkin: at first, there was only -/+ 11:28:01 focus came later, and galehar wanted to avoid that everyone has to use the three tier system, hence the toggle 11:28:03 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:10 but I believe this will change later 11:28:17 (we have plans to simplify m) 11:28:26 very confusing like this, i think 11:29:49 yes, the lower part is a bit intimidating 11:30:14 no, generally it's ok.. but a toggle to choose between 2 or 3 settings is weird 11:32:06 also, how is learning a new skill managed now? 11:32:10 same as before? 11:32:24 yes 11:32:36 or does the "auto" and "manual" mode modify that, too? 11:32:40 you have to practise it 11:32:47 no 11:32:58 that's inconsistent 11:33:03 but it takes into account all actions that use the skill, no matter when/where done 11:33:16 Napkin: yes, galehar explained quite a bit in the forum :) 11:33:26 getting a skill should be fast 11:33:52 maybe those explanations should be linked on the wordpress as well 11:34:22 with comments closed and a link to the forum topic 11:34:54 will talk to galehar about it 11:35:03 don't worry so much, it works pretty great 11:36:15 this it the first version, it'll get smoother with time 11:37:31 haven't played crawl for months 11:38:59 omg! 11:39:03 !coffee Napkin 11:39:04 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of black coffee, brewed by Mnoleg. 11:39:39 also, i'm quite confused at the "Train" values in automatic mode.. they don't depend on Apt anymore, huh? 11:39:56 ah, this is how much xp is channelled into each skill 11:40:02 ich bin fremd gegangen ;-P 11:40:23 yeah, that i understand - but now where the percentage value is coming from 11:40:27 you'll that this is evenly split in manual, and accordingly to usage in manual mode 11:40:30 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:41 Fighting (34%) +1 11:40:43 focus doubles the weight 11:40:50 Napkin: Was hast du gespielt? 11:40:54 Maces & Flails (33%) 0 11:41:03 Armour (16%) -2 11:41:11 Dodging (17%) +2 11:41:12 --- 11:41:27 that's automatic mode - where do those percentage values come from? 11:41:38 yes, 1/3 into Fighting and M&F each, the rest goes into A and D - nothing to do with apts 11:41:42 definitely not from Apt anymore 11:41:43 Napkin: from usage 11:41:50 they never came from apts 11:42:17 :-O 11:43:18 ok, yes, wrapping it.. 11:43:56 so, what you train is unrelated to the action that gained the xp now? 11:44:44 dpeg: tome, goblin camp, cataclysm (only shortly) and brogue 11:47:06 tome was nice, but rough around the edges 11:47:30 goblin camp is cool, but don't like simulations and their micro-management too much 11:47:41 brogue is great 11:50:43 sorry, cooking for the kids 11:51:03 does brogue run in console? 11:51:32 And will you still keep up the infrastructure for good old crawl? 11:51:57 not really - it uses libtcod which runs a pseudo console terminal using SDL/FB/etc 11:52:33 of course - i'll not abandon good old crawl 11:53:31 Napkin: what a pity with brogue... otherwise it could've run through dgl 11:53:37 best way to promote it 11:53:53 i have to admit i'm missing a few active faces from before ;) but i have no doubt they will return one day 11:54:23 yes, it's always in a flux 11:54:49 yeah, no chance on that - brogue really relies on libtcod a lot 11:55:13 I got just one win in the tournament, if I'm lucky the second one tonight 11:55:21 hurry ;) 11:55:28 ie, it's not a roguelike 11:55:44 unless you also call Diablo one 11:56:27 oh, brogue is roguelike 11:57:41 -!- Guest1402 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:55 -!- Guest1402 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:52 there are a number of different definitions what a roguelike is 11:59:14 true 11:59:20 no use to argue about words 11:59:25 isn't having an interface of characters on a text screen (ie, not text like a MUD or an adventure game) the usual definition of roguelikes? 11:59:33 but I'd guess that brogue is more roguelike than diablo 11:59:41 dpeg: true that, there's no "only true(tm)" definition 11:59:46 of course 11:59:52 kilobyte: no, not at all. This is sometimes a minor clause in the list of requirements. 11:59:56 everybody has its own definition 12:00:03 kilobyte: pretty big is randomly generated content 12:00:24 so then you wouldn't classify Castle as a roguelike? 12:00:54 "castle"? 12:02:32 kilobyte: well, in the definitions I've seen, your game would have a roguelike score 12:02:44 there will be outliers all the time, of course 12:02:48 Napkin: a game from 1984. http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Reviews/CastleAdventure/Index.html 12:03:16 the map is fixed, though, and the scale is different (rooms typically take a whole screen) 12:04:08 kids, food 12:04:24 guten hunger! 12:05:06 thanks, kilobyte 12:05:07 kilobyte: If that definition were used, Shiren the Wanderer wouldn't be a roguelike. And I couldn't abide that. 12:06:16 randomness and turn-based are the most important aspects in my opinion 12:07:05 * dtsund isn't convinced about turn-based either 12:07:35 hmm, Shiren seems to be an old-style RPG rather than a roguelike to me 12:08:29 never played it, hard to tell from a description though 12:09:27 beh, no permadeath? Now that's one of key parts of the definition :p 12:09:29 It's kind of like Rogue, but with a few persistent elements between games. 12:10:16 You do get busted down to level 1, start of game, no items on 'death', even though Shiren just wakes up alive back in town. 12:12:11 i think turn based is a very essential part of roguelikes 12:12:23 since it allows for higher levels of strategizing 12:13:28 Ever played Spelunky? 12:14:04 no 12:14:08 -!- Guest1402 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:14 looking at brogue's screenshots, I wonder why exactly is the reason they couldn't turn it into a Real Roguelike(tm) (by the only true definition, again (tm)) 12:14:28 heard of it though, a sidescroller? 12:14:33 Yeah. 12:14:34 why aren't we counting brogue as a Real Roguelike(tm)? 12:14:36 they use more than 16 colours, but outside of Windows console and rxvt that's not a problem 12:14:59 it has permadeath, it's turn based, it's random, it's heavily about using items you find... 12:15:00 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:11 It is a Very Good Game, and I wouldn't be satisfied with a definition of roguelike that excluded it. 12:15:12 "it also adds elements from the roguelike genre,[2] including randomly-generated levels, a lack of save points" 12:15:15 Eronarn: read the flamewar from fifteen minutes before :) 12:15:23 wikipedia, how is a lack of save points an element from roguelikes 12:15:52 This was a flamewar? 12:15:56 rawrmage: I haven't played a roguelike with no permadeath 12:16:09 ah, permadeath 12:16:10 kilobyte: NetHack 12:16:13 dohohohoho 12:16:13 dtsund: not as heated as they usually go :p 12:16:16 not save/restore methods 12:16:16 roguelikes having character glyphs is like sidescrollers having 8 or 16 bit graphics 12:16:22 it's been historically true but that's all 12:16:27 I was into roguelikes before they sold out 12:16:34 dtsund: no permadeath in NetHack? How come? 12:16:50 also, TOME has a several-lives-before-permadeath mode. and it's the default 12:16:53 (also, felids!) 12:16:55 But wait... your amulet begins to glow! 12:16:55 lifesavign? 12:17:08 there are still permadeaths 12:17:10 even with LS 12:17:13 dtsund: but wait, potions of healing? 12:17:54 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:07 Not sure what you mean by that 12:18:20 kilobyte: scrolls of blinking? 12:19:50 dtsund: amulet of lifesaving stops a death from occuring, like Zin, TSO, Ely, Beogh or Yredelemnul. It's a far weaker argument than felids where theme-wise you actually "die" but can die several times before being permanently down. 12:20:11 I was being facetious. 12:20:19 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:23 Sorry, sometimes hard to get across in text-only 12:20:55 ok, sorry for misunderstanding you 12:22:31 speaking of zin, how would people feel about ramping up the food conduct like so: you can still eat what you can, but if you can keep it to clean chunks, you slowly gain stat increases to a degree capped by piety 12:23:08 (possibly replace the stacking stats from vitalization with this) 12:24:44 WTF... brogue is 32-bit only 12:25:54 no, kilobyte 12:26:07 not anymore - take it from my git 12:26:24 btw, the option "show_game_turns" doesn't do anything, does it? 12:26:27 Napkin: took the release from their main page 12:26:37 Napkin: renamed 12:26:58 there is show_game_turns and show_gold_turns in default options file 12:27:06 (talking about 0.9) 12:27:45 ah sorry, renamed _to_ show_game_turns 12:27:57 you do need to have show_gold_turns as well or it does nothing 12:28:01 "show_gold_turns" works - does show_game_turns modify the way turns are displayed? 12:28:13 only show_gold_turns works, kilobyte 12:28:43 show_game_turns shows time rather than turns, show_gold_turns enables the line time or turns would be displayed in 12:28:56 ah, ok then 12:29:03 take brogue from here: http://git.develz.org/?p=brogue.git;a=summary 12:29:13 i added libtcod as submodule 12:29:29 works for me 12:29:35 and made it compile on 64bit with the maintainer 12:29:55 libtcod, i mean 12:29:58 Napkin: nice 12:30:41 looking about symbols from libtcod it lacks, it appears it would be pretty little work to convert it from a graphical character-like tiles game to a roguelike (intentionally using this definition here :p) 12:31:03 (hehe) 12:31:07 no u 12:31:16 or something 12:31:24 well, someone from the forums of brogue helped me get brogue running in 64bit as well 12:31:37 kilobyte: http://git.develz.org/?p=brogue.git;a=commit;h=113963cc916ed3dd911fdf8f11ef2dc60b5152d8 12:31:48 that's all it needed ;) 12:32:45 that's a silly definition 12:32:46 has anyone made 0.9 binaries yet? 12:32:57 for mac, I mean 12:33:20 someone non-crawl-related built some binaries 12:33:30 mentioned in the comments of the 0.9 release post, Wensley 12:33:42 i would love someone to check them for viri :) 12:36:54 dtsund: you need kerio's quick guide to "no u" usage 12:37:08 have you tried that git-repo of brogue, kilobyte? first time i ever did some submodule magic.. did it work? 12:39:59 Napkin: sorry, been, uhm, busy 12:40:13 sure, sure, no hurry 12:40:18 just curious 12:42:20 compiled ok 12:42:31 hrm, diagonal movement works only with vi keys 12:42:43 numpad should work 12:42:53 but, diagonal doesn't work at corners 12:43:21 ah :p 12:46:58 Uh...my webtiles game appears to be in an area that doesn't exist after going up an escape hatch 12:47:13 it's good that it doesn't require using the numpad 12:47:26 Can anyone take a look? 12:47:33 because that would be awkward for when you don't have one 12:48:03 Oh, it corrected itself after a minute for some reason. 12:48:04 RichardHawk: looks to me like an update error 12:48:19 it corrected itself when i joined to spectate, i think 12:48:33 please file this as bug 12:48:33 Napkin: I see. 12:48:41 Right. 12:48:53 Trying to get this game done before tourney closes though 12:48:57 in the mean-time, opening the inventory or something like that might help to cause a redraw 12:49:03 good luck :) 12:51:02 brogue seems to support any screen size as long as it's 100x32 12:51:20 cue the "hugeterm" discussion 13:07:18 Prono the Eclecticist (L18 VpSu) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed on turn 88100. (Abyss) 13:07:59 Prono the Eclecticist (L18 VpSu) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed on turn 88100. (Abyss) 13:11:48 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:04 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:50 mikee is doing a speedrun... got the Snake rune at under 10k turns 13:59:07 @whereis mikee 13:59:07 mikee the Eclecticist (L13 SpEn), a worshipper of Ashenzari, saved on Lair:5 on 2011-08-28 after 13226 turns. 14:01:31 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:19 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:03 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:07 galehar: hi! 14:15:18 hi! 14:19:53 the others agreed that I may make an implementable for Hive 14:20:00 it'll be modest for a start, e.g. no timer 14:20:21 just something to go on -- Hive is not important enough to get a coder working on it, but nobody really likes it either 14:20:27 galehar: fine with you? 14:21:45 what's the plan? 14:22:06 should I read the backlog so that you don't have to explain it all over again? 14:22:10 no no 14:22:50 or just put the implementable and I'll read it, I trust you :) 14:23:24 (a) turn Hive into a non-timed portal vault (so that players have just one go); (b) have larvae eat combs/jellies for growth; (c) a player who spends resources (mapping, speed, fire to melt wax etc.) should be able to get a good part of the loot 14:24:22 kilobyte is concerned about trolls and spriggans -- Tr have the advantage of strength, Sp have their obvious advantage 14:24:31 it'd be a race like mini-game, I like those :) 14:26:07 yeah, I like this idea 14:26:19 but what's modest about it? 14:26:22 we'll see how it works out 14:26:39 galehar: oh, the radical version would be with a timer and harsher gimmicks 14:26:39 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:51 e.g. bees in sight of the queen and you going berserk :) 14:27:05 (it is hard to make bees non-trivial monsters by that time, this is one attempt) 14:27:08 but we can leave it for later 14:27:14 why a timer if the larva are already eating the loot? 14:27:25 oh, a portal vault entrance timer 14:27:43 you're right, in the vault the larvae are the timer 14:28:05 btw, the plan is even if you play slow, you'd get some loot, perhaps 1/3 of the current stuff 14:28:19 but if you want it all, you better gotta extend yourself 14:29:04 yeah, not sure about a timer to the portal. Players who really need the food would have to be careful of not accidentally triggering it too soon. 14:29:07 jpeg was here today, she's about to jot down an implementable too (interface) 14:29:15 galehar: yes, exactly 14:29:35 but the plan as you stated above is good IMO. 14:29:43 cool, thanks 14:30:04 it is old (we've been thinking about Hive for quite some time), but it's never been urgent enough for a dev to tackle it 14:30:20 but it's modest for a gameplay point of view, not from a coder's one if you see what I mean. 14:30:31 yes, of course 14:30:42 I'll try to break into manageable pieces 14:30:57 but it's cool to have harder implementable too. We might recruit some skilled coder :P 14:31:30 :) 14:31:47 dpeg: or, alternatively, we could have another Hive-like vault in the late game so 3-runers can't forget about food pressure 14:32:12 regarding the impact on Sp and Tr, I think it's ok. It's still possible to get all of it if you hurry. Sp are good at races. 14:32:17 kilobyte: need more data 14:32:41 kilobyte: two, smaller hives? 14:32:55 Hive has the problem that if you want to feed a troll in 12/15 runes, a dwarf in 3 could skip chunks altogether and be well-fed 14:33:20 dpeg: no sure if hive or not a hive, I'm talking about resource not means of getting it 14:33:26 kilobyte: ah 14:33:42 kilobyte: there's been talk for a long time about some edible monsters in the extended branches 14:33:46 I think that's the best approach 14:33:54 because then the food is where you want it 14:33:57 there was the idea of tormented humans in Hell 14:34:18 <3 14:34:22 103 players atm 14:36:09 Napkin: looking at brogue and libtcod: I see that, beside implementing tcod in a Real Roguelike(tm) way, we could go the other way, and add a libtcod port of Crawl. Windows only, most likely. 14:36:49 why windows only? 14:37:04 Napkin: win32 console sucks halfling balls, we can take putty's sources for that but libtcod looks like it would require less work 14:37:21 there's no dearth of good terminals on Unix... 14:37:29 -!- zpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:33 i see what you mean 14:38:02 libtcod port would be a nice addition, i'd say 14:38:03 halfling balls, what a bad taste of win32 14:38:05 back later 14:38:09 o/ 14:40:50 kilobyte, Napkin: what is it about? 14:41:25 check yourself, galehar: http://git.develz.org/?p=brogue.git;a=summary 14:41:52 kilobyte suggested to use libtcod as replacement for windows console 14:42:24 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:46 yeah, but what's the point? 256 colours? Better fonts? 14:43:01 less sucky windows console, i guess 14:43:31 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:53 dpeg: can we get rid of bee rooms in the dungeon? that would help a lot with reducing food 14:49:00 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:08 if you get two before hive, which isn't rare at all, you won't even need to rely on hive for food 14:49:44 soul (L17 SpEn) ASSERT(next_level > 0) in 'skills.cc' at line 618 failed. (Shoals:3) 14:49:53 we can also just reduce the chance and/or the loot inside it. 14:49:57 (or alternately, have them just with a lot less food than right now. like 1-3 rj, 3-5 honeycomb) 14:49:59 !lm * crash -log 14:50:06 -!- Letchik has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:15 if you get one that's 8x8 that's a LOT of food right now 14:50:17 !lg * s=sc 14:50:25 Why doesnt sequell respond to this? 14:50:26 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:50:36 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 14:50:50 1467. soul, XL17 SpEn, T:20423 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/soul/crash-soul-20110828-194939.txt 14:50:55 galehar: one option would also be making it more vault-y: like have it be 'hive' monster that summons a bee occasionally if you are in LOS, but if you hit it, a lot more bees come out 14:51:20 hmm 14:51:44 he did 14:51:46 finaly 14:52:10 Letchik: if you do a query with no filters it will take longer, generally 14:52:31 !lg * s=char 14:52:32 1236668 games for *: 54022x DEWn, 43244x MDFi, 30240x SpEn, 24360x DEWz, 23120x DSCK, 19779x MfCr, 19207x SETm, 16398x DECj, 15171x HEWz, 14454x MiBe, 14053x HOPr, 13670x DEFE, 13630x DSWn, 13317x DSFi, 13258x TrBe, 12539x MuNe, 12279x MuWz, 11825x HOFi, 10896x DETh, 10867x KoBe, 10759x DEEn, 10553x SpAs, 10280x HECr, 9010x MDBe, 8767x DESt, 8746x DEAr, 8088x DSBe, 8025x DDNe, 7977x DSCr, 7950x Mi... 14:52:35 he does it fast 14:52:36 and 14:52:39 !lg * s=sc 14:52:43 ... 14:53:04 probably something to do with indexing or caching? 14:53:32 yeah, I wouldn't even think about not having an index on such a field as char 14:53:36 !lg Letchik s=sc 14:53:47 sc = score? or? 14:53:47 what's up with this? 14:53:56 can't we fix the url bug for morgue files? (s/trunk/0.9/) 14:53:57 i dont know what sc is. I just wanted to find out 14:54:34 s/trunk/0.9/ is not the fix, galehar 14:54:54 !time 14:54:55 Time: Aug 28, 2011, 07:54:55 PM, UTC. The 2011 tournament ends in 4 hours, 5 minutes and 4 seconds. 14:54:59 trunk if date <= 123 && version == 0.9 14:55:04 if it's something obscure maybe there is no index on it 14:55:13 there's a !lg helpfile you know, right? 14:55:13 0.9 if date > 123 && version == 0.9 14:55:30 Eronarn: y i know 14:55:30 oh, tournament ends tonight. 14:55:58 How do I filter by background? 14:56:11 race= and job= iirc 14:56:24 !lg . job=VM 14:56:25 224. Eronarn the Conjurer (L11 OPVM), worshipper of Vehumet, slain by a troll on D:10 on 2011-04-17, with 8471 points after 13888 turns and 1:11:17. 14:56:31 !lg . race=OP 14:56:31 99. Eronarn the Grappler (L14 OpTm), worshipper of Ashenzari, shot by a centaur (arrow of frost) on Orc:4 (st orc rangers) on 2011-07-17, with 44058 points after 22508 turns and 2:33:26. 14:56:45 not by race 14:56:50 by ah 14:56:51 ah 14:56:52 job 14:56:53 ok 14:56:53 thx 14:56:54 char= 14:57:02 !lg . char=*VM 14:57:02 No games for Eronarn (char=*VM). 14:57:11 !lg . char=VM 14:57:11 No games for Eronarn (char=VM). 14:57:18 yeah so it can only do both 14:57:20 !lg . char=*Tm 14:57:20 No games for Letchik (char=*Tm). 14:57:23 wait nevermind 14:57:29 but that's still useful 14:57:37 i guess because of HEHE 14:57:38 !lg . job=Tm 14:57:39 117. KiloByte the Transmogrifier (L9 DrTm), worshipper of Cheibriados, blasted by an orc wizard (magic dart) on D:7 on 2011-08-20, with 3426 points after 7451 turns and 0:47:32. 14:57:43 !lg * v=0.9.0-a job=Tm 14:57:44 917. vogonpoetB12 the Ruffian (L1 MiTm), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2011-08-28, with 20 points after 1 turn and 0:00:13. 14:57:56 oh, anyone have comments on that zin idea from earlier? 14:57:59 !lg * v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=race 14:57:59 917 games for * (v=0.9.0-a job=Tm): 253x Demonspawn, 185x Sludge Elf, 97x Felid, 67x Naga, 63x Draconian, 49x Demigod, 22x Merfolk, 14x Spriggan, 14x Ogre, 11x High Elf, 11x Green Draconian, 11x Human, 11x Kenku, 10x Centaur, 10x Yellow Draconian, 9x Grey Draconian, 9x Purple Draconian, 9x Troll, 7x Minotaur, 7x Kobold, 6x Vampire, 6x Pale Draconian, 5x Mummy, 5x Red Draconian, 4x White Draconian,... 14:58:06 !lg . char=~Tm 14:58:06 117. KiloByte the Transmogrifier (L9 DrTm), worshipper of Cheibriados, blasted by an orc wizard (magic dart) on D:7 on 2011-08-20, with 3426 points after 7451 turns and 0:47:32. 14:58:28 !lg * v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=race won 14:58:28 No games for * (v=0.9.0-a job=Tm won) 14:58:35 people really like the chei stat bonus, and it enables some interesting things 14:58:37 !lg * won v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=race 14:58:37 5 games for * (won v=0.9.0-a job=Tm): 2x Naga, 1x Demigod, 1x Grey Draconian, 1x Black Draconian 14:58:40 char=~Tm of course can't be indexed, except for grouping, but I see the server is smart enough to do that 14:58:41 so it should clearly exist somewhere in the game 14:58:51 !lg * v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=race x=god 14:58:51 Extra fields (god) contain non-aggregates 14:59:04 and i think zin could be a good spot for it 14:59:32 why is god non-aggregate? 14:59:51 !lg * v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=god 14:59:52 917 games for * (v=0.9.0-a job=Tm): 727x , 36x Sif Muna, 35x Kikubaaqudgha, 26x Nemelex Xobeh, 23x Makhleb, 22x Cheibriados, 20x Okawaru, 12x Ashenzari, 5x Xom, 3x Vehumet, 2x Yredelemnul, 2x Jiyva, 1x Lugonu, 1x Elyvilon, 1x Trog, 1x Fedhas 15:00:02 !lg * won v=0.9.0-a job=Tm s=god 15:00:03 5 games for * (won v=0.9.0-a job=Tm): 2x Makhleb, 1x Okawaru, 1x , 1x Kikubaaqudgha 15:00:03 you can't put multiple gods in a single field 15:00:13 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:21 if you want "a god", aggregates like max() will work fine 15:00:32 you can distribute chars from single field by gods 15:01:17 IIRC Sequell uses MySQL but I doubt it allows group_concat() 15:03:52 let people run arbitrary sql on sequell :) 15:04:39 not a good idea, unless it's limited to trusted people 15:05:08 I'm going to do something similar except for other data; data I'm going to get from a wget run I'll start in four hours :p 15:05:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:39 skills, memorized spells, items wielded, etc 15:10:52 maybe i will go poke at that, i need stuff to practice on 15:13:30 speaking of stats, I've been thinking about the new spell usage tracker. It's great, but maybe weak spells need to be cast more often to kill monsters and will seem to be more popular 15:13:51 it would be great to also keep track of the number of kills and/or damage done per spell 15:14:42 so we can compare spell efficiency based on real game data 15:15:09 galehar: at minimum, you need to weight number of casts by when the player had access to the spell (so we should track not just memorization, but when the player found a spellbook with those spells) 15:16:02 total damage done per spell would be nice but i think it might end up very hard to actually do with the way spells are coded? 15:16:10 stuff like clouds, or summons 15:16:50 also, i think tracking tension on screen when a spell is cast would be VERY informative 15:17:01 though i still believe that we need to fix the tension formula 15:17:25 what i'm using in lorc branch is tension *= sqrt(% HP lost) 15:17:55 so 1% HP = ~10x tension 15:19:43 if we tracked tension per cast we'd have two things: a simple sum/mean/median of tension per spell, which is useful enough, but then also the ability to compare the curves of different spells as tension increases 15:22:17 Eronarn: -1 to damage, +1 to tension 15:23:09 galehar: it'd be tricky to compare spells which contributed to the monster's death directly, except for pure damage ones 15:23:42 and even then, it's hard to tell crowd control (which does a lot of damage to popcorn) from those done against hardened targets 15:23:47 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:36 Eronarn's idea to use tension though, seems to tell apart spells done in a real need from those used to reduce mp/food costs 15:25:25 my casters tend to use melee a lot, even if it's mostly popcorn that gets hit that way 15:25:31 well, there are ways to compensate for that - like weight damage by some factor. and you'd have to exclude non-damaging spells. but it would be a huge amount of work for something that wouldn't be as informative as tension (which would require minimal work) 15:27:09 any idea how to track tension while not inflating the number of counters too much? 15:27:17 the main problems with tension atm are: 1) it has no memory, so it drops to 0 if you break LOS 2) i don't think that it stays constant as you level, given the XP system 3) it doesn't account for being at low HP well 4) it doesn't account for being at low MP at all 15:28:56 I've split count into XL 1..3, 4..6, ... 25..27 as it'd be bad to count mass use of Sting for late game; it'd be bad to multiply that by more than, say, three 15:29:56 kilobyte: can we get something sql-like instead or is that too slow? 15:30:13 Eronarn: what do you mean by sql-like? 15:32:20 kilobyte: i mean something like: Sting;4204;245 for, say, spell/cast#/tension at cast 15:32:29 counters can be derived from something like that, but not the other way around 15:33:23 there's a problem: we'd need some other way to save that info 15:35:31 howso? 15:36:17 can't put that in char dumps/morgues 15:37:12 kilobyte: you'd store the info like that, and save it, but then just put a summary of it in the morgue 15:37:55 like: group by spell, display # of casts, and mean/median for the other values 15:38:02 (but if we want to do more in-depth digging, the data is there for that) 15:39:03 basically it's not going to be very interesting to a player what tension he cast certain spells at, but for development reasons we may well want the tension value of each specific cast 15:40:00 where do you propose to save that? 15:41:27 i think having it be a separate file from the savefile makes sense; perhaps for offline play it could be a 'stats.db' with one table per character, or something? and for on the server, either each player gets one, or they all connect to a db 15:50:36 back 15:52:19 !tell edlothiol I'm not entirely sure where to implement orb glow on webtiles (akin to b4c3ab02): obviously in static/game/render.js, but where else? 15:52:19 kilobyte: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 15:53:21 re bee hives: can surely be tweaked in a number of ways, the bee threat should stay (I am less concerned about the food, of course) 15:53:53 zipcode plays a mummy of Xom 15:54:07 I have to say that zipcode's game have most style. 15:54:30 -!- Letchik has left ##crawl-dev 15:55:04 kilobyte: does something like what i proposed sound feasible at all, or is it just going to end up being too slow/too much memory? 15:56:55 as in, N78291? 15:57:38 Eronarn: a flat text file would work just as well here and be simpler 15:58:03 it's not out of question -- it could go next to .lst/.map on the server 15:58:27 yeah, flat would be fine for sure. i love csv tyle. 15:58:27 16:54 -!- Letchik [~CrabMan@h86-62-100-131.ln.rinet.ru] has left ##crawl-dev [] 15:58:31 16:55 < Eronarn> kilobyte: does something like what i proposed sound feasible at all, or is it just going to end up being too slow/too much memory? 15:58:34 oops 15:59:14 i guess you could increment the displayed-in-morgue counter as you add stuff to the flat file, so that you don't have to then parse the flat file once the game is over 16:00:03 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:03 ok, gotta go - still no power, only an hour left on laptop 16:03:39 there's no need to parse the file unless we actually need to analyze them 16:04:15 and if _what_ aggregate is needed would be known beforehand, there'd be no need for that file 16:04:30 !time 16:04:33 Time: Aug 28, 2011, 09:04:32 PM, UTC. The 2011 tournament ends in 2 hours, 55 minutes and 27 seconds. 16:04:37 Napkin: awake? 16:04:44 sure 16:04:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:04:58 what's up? 16:06:06 Napkin: I still can't log to the tavern, even though it says the credentials are same as for mantis 16:06:27 I did even reset the password (to the same as the old one), just in case 16:06:46 Okawaru gifting too many items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4449) by Jk 16:06:52 hmm 16:07:35 what's your username, kilobyte? 16:07:42 guess :p 16:07:48 tried both capitalized and not 16:07:57 i don't see you on the memberlist in the tavern 16:08:18 which means, your account data hasn't been copied over, because you didn't login correctly yet... 16:08:21 hmmm 16:08:44 you *never* logged in correctly, which means it should just read the mantis account name and password 16:08:48 I never posted there, and never felt like doing that but there's a guy dpeg asked me to answer... but I couldn't log in since 16:09:29 your username is "KiloByte" 16:09:47 yeah, tried both that and "kilobyte" 16:09:49 you can logoff and logon to mantis, yes? 16:09:56 yep 16:10:06 well, all i can do is login with your account 16:10:14 which means i need to reset your password 16:10:17 ok with that? 16:10:43 oh.. well.. that won't work 16:10:49 as it can only send out new password 16:10:59 reset the password again and give it to me? 16:11:00 sure, but I tried that via the password thingy already 16:11:05 do you have cookies enabled? 16:11:48 session only usually, whitelisted permanent ones for crawl.develz.org 16:12:50 well, query 16:13:59 doesn't work in FF 6.0 and Chrome either 16:15:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:53 beh, interesting how that Jk guy got Oka to shover him with gifts, sometimes even 5 turns apart 16:25:06 I wish I knew this bug during the tourney :p 16:27:53 since no one noticed that on the server, I guess that might be platform dependent 16:30:52 kilobyte: that, and _send_cell in tileweb.cc (see https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/tileweb.cc#line310 ). that should be all 16:30:53 edlothiol: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:31:19 oh, looks like what I was missing 16:33:00 I had seen the commit and was planning to add it myself, but I didn't have much time at all the last few days 16:46:59 Webtiles minimap oddity (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4450) by Fyren 17:05:37 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:20 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:33 soul (L21 SpEn) ASSERT(next_level > 0) in 'skills.cc' at line 618 failed. (D:16) 17:46:10 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:41 -!- st_ has quit [] 17:56:42 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:00 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:43 kilobyte: the hidden Vault bug is just due to a lot of bad luck 18:01:08 I think... Vault stairs generated in a closet, door randomly secret 18:01:30 not sure how we can prevent this apart from another pass over a finished, freshly generated level 18:01:48 (and we don't want to reveal the purposefully placed secret doors either) 18:06:58 isn't the connectivity check supposed to detect such cases? 18:08:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:58 no idea 18:16:51 soul (L21 SpEn) ASSERT(next_level > 0) in 'skills.cc' at line 618 failed. (Pan) 18:32:00 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:43 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:48 soul's crash is already fixed but not yet updated 18:41:28 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:36 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-19-g77be2dd (32) 18:52:57 -!- ionfrigate has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:11 hey, is cao ever going to report cao 0.9 games? 19:05:13 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:40 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27:13 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Quit: GreatZebu] 19:28:19 -!- ionfrigate has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:31:34 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:08 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:38:04 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:00 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:44 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:24:10 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:23 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 21:39:08 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:35 trying to pull a save/dump from cao asks for a uid/pw, does someone need to give prospective developers access? 22:12:52 uh, no? 22:13:12 there is no public access to saves on CAO. 22:13:54 rephrase: if someone (like me) want to look at a bug (4378) how does one pull the save? 22:14:19 or is that just not something to think about trying to do? ;) 22:14:20 hm, pester someone who has access to fetch it and upload it as an attachment? 22:14:32 blueDave: https://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/dumps/Yunor-crawl-git-265c8432c8-110811-1932.tar.bz2 22:14:37 the problem's that if anyone could do it, people could just download their save and use it to see what was hidden behind a door, or whatever 22:14:47 ais523: exactly 22:14:49 if you look in the comments on that bug post, the reporter pasted that link 22:14:49 right, that link 22:14:53 I understand 22:14:57 Wensley: have you clicked on the link? 22:15:00 oh ha 22:15:14 well that changes things :) 22:15:29 blueDave: uno momento 22:15:47 I should have access... 22:16:00 Yeah, I do. 22:16:28 clearly the access should be open to everyone but the person playing :P 22:16:58 Zannick: solution: create a new account. 22:17:13 i said "person" not "user" :P 22:17:31 Zannick: and define "person"? likewise, how to prevent them from asking their friend to go and download it for htem? 22:17:36 ordinarily it wouldn't be a problem because few normal players would understand how to look 22:17:49 due: that was my joke 22:17:57 here, I bet many could 22:18:01 (seriously, though, why not open access if the game has concluded?) 22:18:07 Zannick: oh, I didn't realise you were joking. 22:18:15 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:18:30 oh, sorry 22:18:33 blueDave: PM me your email address, please? I will forward it to you. 22:20:41 it'd make sense for dumped saves to be readable after the game had ended (death/win) 22:41:20 posted an answer on 4378, the hidden vault entrance was reachable via an unused ceiling hatch on the floor below -- mystery solved 22:42:22 thankfully, not a bug in level generation 22:42:55 no, that must be, ceiling hatches on the level below aren't guaranteed 22:43:11 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:24 what I meant was, it generated correctly (with access via that hatch) 22:43:51 not behind a no-hint secret door as the only possible access 22:44:21 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:37 granted I'm taking a leap of faith that D:n generated a (send a hatch here) thingy and then D:n+1) linked to it, guessing that's how it must work 22:46:16 I don't think Crawl does that, although I'm not 100% sure 22:49:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:15 hatches don't work like that i'm pretty sure, yeah 22:57:16 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:02:44 blueDave: I think hatches send you a random location in 0.9. 23:03:08 In 0.8, they sent you to the next floor at the nearest possible coordinates to where you already were. 23:05:22 which was fun for setting up paradrops onto the orb :) 23:06:19 Well, you'd use Flight cards and shaft traps. 23:06:32 yes, that's how i did it 23:06:33 'coz shafts and hatches basically share the same code 23:14:02 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:14:03 slitherfritz the Archmage (L27 NaWz) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed on turn 164071. (Geh:6) 23:18:04 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:52 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 23:24:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:41:55 -!- zpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev