00:00:40 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-12-gaaefe4e (32) 00:01:24 I can also confirm that the bug can be triggered if there was an explosion on the tile 00:01:33 During the turn when the tentacle dies 00:05:49 Seems to be a new issue to 0.9; I can't reproduce it in 0.8. 00:07:39 Windows builds of pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-12-gaaefe4e 00:08:32 Also, it seems odd to me that Malign Gateway can be used to turn shallow water into land. 00:13:59 -!- Guest61102 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:16 -!- Guest61102 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:03 -!- Letchik has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:22 When will webtiles move to 0.9? 00:48:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:51:45 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:43 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:48 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:16 -!- diazepan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:16 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-241-g7be3dc4 (32) 01:16:38 Just went downstairs to have "Found three gates" announced, but there was only one 01:16:43 is this a known bug? 01:17:26 is this with Ash? 01:17:53 nope, Trog 01:17:56 but a DD 01:18:25 and the mapping didn't reveal more than one gate either 01:18:32 probably is then, the "found x" messages have weird stuff like that 01:19:07 ah, I found a shop on the floor 01:19:16 I'm going to guess there's exactly one more :P 01:19:55 huh, nope 01:19:56 only the one 01:55:03 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 01:57:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:10:25 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:29 -!- st_ has quit [] 02:24:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:09 -!- Letchik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:45:23 -!- Letchik1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54:08 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:05 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:07:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: z] 03:11:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:51 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:50:05 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:56:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:18 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:22 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:00 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:38 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:50 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:59:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:27 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:06 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:06 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:35:50 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:57:23 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:42 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:14 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:02:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:41 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:30:42 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:51 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:41 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:11 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:31 dpeg_ o/ 07:43:03 hi 07:43:22 bhaak: report written? 07:43:48 Nataq (L8 DrFi) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 916: non-door tile (Ossuary) 07:44:05 haha 07:44:14 someone made easycrawl because 'devs are mean :(' 07:44:19 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_thread/thread/1c586772b64b09a9?hl=en 07:44:53 dpeg_: not yet, i wanted you to direct your attention to the link Eronarn just posted 07:45:07 ah :) 07:45:56 what wimps, those players... they should make hardcorecrawl because 'devs have wimped out' :) 07:46:41 they already have, it's called "sporkhack" 07:46:43 * bhaak ducks 07:47:00 i like how he releases this right after a release that gives everyone +3 HP at start 07:47:32 yes! 07:47:53 pff, +3 HP, i can die with as easily as before 07:48:55 * Adeon writes something to his notebook 07:48:57 bhaak: no no, you really have to try harder now! 07:49:13 it helps octopodes a lot! 07:49:29 haven't octopodes been left out of 0.9? 07:49:33 yes 07:49:39 they're patient! 07:49:45 oh, irony 07:50:05 there are enough germanic people in here that you should have irony-marker-requirement! 07:51:00 "they"'"re" "patient" 07:51:03 better? 07:51:22 much better 07:52:05 we're all patients! 07:57:37 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:14 i have no clue if crawllight goes into the right direction code-wise and if the criticism he has are justified, but the intentions are good :) 08:02:27 intentions of the nature "more players should win" are never good, rather such heresies should be punished by concerted actions of our most evil gods 08:02:37 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:02:54 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 08:03:19 i interpret it as "not only oldtimers should be able to win" :) 08:03:28 the stated aim of making the game much shorter and adding more optional challenges to the early game seems like a reasonable idea for a fork but that doesn't at all look like what any of the changes are about 08:04:31 hi Marvin! 08:04:38 hello :) 08:04:49 they kicked you out of the top ten 08:04:58 no wonder you support the mellow version :P 08:05:01 haha 08:05:11 yeah, i need to get back up there! 08:05:36 you have the fastest win, after all 08:06:18 i'm sure that'll be beaten soon but yeah, was quite happily surprised to notice that :) 08:06:38 did I ever discuss my little Monk idea over here? 08:06:48 it attracted some attention on the forum 08:07:30 hm, i don't think so 08:07:54 something minor along the lines of what was mentioned on the forum sounds like it could be good though 08:08:25 years ago I proposed giving them Spc 1 but that's not so meaningful these days 08:08:45 and some Inv doesn't really kick it either (especially since only some gods use Inv) 08:08:46 http://www.osnews.com/story/25064/BREAKING_GOOGLE_ACQUIRES_MOTOROLA 08:08:50 if anyone cares 08:08:51 and btw 08:08:56 any android client being worked on? :D 08:09:02 would be cool to play dcss on a tablet 08:09:10 webtiles? :) 08:09:14 so my suggestion was to give Monks higher starting piety (60 for a random number) 08:09:21 bhaak, does it work? 08:09:29 bhaak, and I'm thinking mostly non tiles :) 08:09:41 cbus: i haven't tried it but it might. 08:09:49 *tries* 08:09:59 which tablet? 08:10:10 no tablet right now 08:10:14 just a galaxy s running miui galnet 08:10:17 (twooey v3) 08:10:32 you'd really want to take advantage of touchscreens 08:10:40 which would require a different interface 08:11:00 MarvinPA_: what'd ya think? 08:11:54 crawl's webtiles convinced me that making a separate gui for different platforms is going to be obsolete or at least much easier than porting it to different desktop os 08:12:18 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 08:12:20 but tablets are another beast because of the touchscreen 08:13:27 bhaak, no web socket support 08:14:07 hmm, piety could work, since i guess all the starting gods now at least have some appeal on d:1 or 2 so there'd still be a decision to make there 08:14:56 MarvinPA: yes, that is the hope. 08:15:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:24 The questions would be: how attractive would such a Monk package be? (Too attractive without other nerfs?) 08:15:56 Currently, you get 15 piety at start, right? 08:16:10 What are the *, **, *** thresholds? 08:16:24 i think so, although you get quite a bit more than that for the backgrounds that start with a god usually 08:17:11 sure, but you have to find the god first 08:17:16 which is a big liability 08:17:22 yeah 08:17:46 my hope would be that the overflow altars create interesting decisions ... not sure whether that works out 08:18:59 cbus: i'll try on the ipad when i'm home and don't forget 08:19:41 bhaak, oki 08:23:51 "* Automatic training of skills is now possible." -huh 08:25:36 Do we know who created this "light-crawl"? 08:26:27 it was dtsund 08:26:30 dtsund 08:26:41 dtsund doesn't ring any bells 08:27:19 MarvinPA: ais523: Is this someone we know? Someone we could talk to? 08:27:29 ghallberg, there's a #crawllight channel 08:27:32 he's not on Freenode right now, but he's on Freenode often 08:27:40 dunno, they were in irc yesterday to give out the link 08:27:44 and I know him, because I helped teach him to play NetHack 08:27:51 Hmm ok. 08:27:54 (he was already pretty good at Crawl by that point) 08:28:08 As someone said, his basic reasons for forking seem fine, his changes mayb not so much, 08:29:41 who cares, anyway. 08:31:01 some of his changes seem good 08:31:09 like making the storms prompt for hitting you 08:32:45 wonder why he doesn't submit that to us 08:33:15 Zaba: That was what I wanted to ask him, see if he wants to talk to us :D 08:33:18 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:23 The other day I thought that the targetting mode should indicate the area for all such spells. 08:34:05 dpeg_, I thought it did 08:34:28 does not for MC at least 08:34:35 ghallberg: his post doesn't seem like someone who wants to talk 08:35:26 you could try dropping a memoserv memo 08:42:31 maybe it is because he is expecting to be trampled for good intentions 08:42:40 nudge nudge, say no more 08:43:05 Adeon: ? 08:43:09 nevermind me 08:43:49 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:05 * dpeg_ notes that Adeon made notes in his notebook above. 08:44:18 graphic notes, i presume 08:44:36 I have many notes 08:44:51 Adeon, you mean, he's expecting us to criticize his forking so the image of the 'mean dev team' is strengthened? :P 08:45:05 Oh wait, is it that guy who was in here copmlaining about god a month or so back? 08:45:13 which god? 08:45:37 gods* 08:46:02 I don't remember it, but he was very adamant about how his play style was superior and should be the only one allowed. 08:46:11 hmm 08:46:12 lemme check 08:46:21 I think I was tired and not very interested at the time. 08:47:34 i think that was borsuk 08:48:17 sounds a lot like him, but b0rsuk would not come up with a junior edition 08:48:17 yeah, probably 08:48:28 dtsund doesn't have anything in logs other than asking for compilation help 08:49:03 hmm, that reminds me, I couldn't compile 0.9 last I tried 08:49:05 I'll pull again and try again 08:49:10 (umm, 0.10alpha, I suppose) 08:49:19 and then ask for help if it still doesn't work 08:51:02 yep, still doesn't work 08:51:20 I'm getting a series of errors in libunix.cc, which look like they're complaining about wide character functions 08:51:34 the first is "libunix.cc: In function ‘int getchk()’: libunix.cc:234: error: ‘get_wch’ was not declared in this scope" 08:52:26 that's with the current "master" branch from git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 09:08:28 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:28 When will webtiles move to 0.9? 09:10:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:11:00 Letchik: when Napkin is back? 09:12:02 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 09:13:33 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:30 dpeg_ who is napkin? 09:14:46 CDO admin 09:14:54 ais523: not that i'd be any help anyway, but 0.10 seems to compile fine for me on windows 09:15:04 ah, I'm on Linux 09:16:17 trying to compile "make WIZARD=y" 09:24:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:25 I could build it yesterday 09:29:49 I think it's probably something unexpected about my setup 09:29:50 Gonna try now 09:29:52 but I don't know what 09:30:49 -!- Euph0ria_MuWiz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:00 hey folks, there is a little discussion about the variant on r.g.r.dev 09:34:11 -!- Euph0riaX has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:19 dpeg_: Care to cliffnote it? 09:34:31 I don't even know what that is. 09:34:36 hehe 09:34:39 Cannot find manual in my beard! 09:34:51 tldr it then :P 09:36:12 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_thread/thread/1c586772b64b09a9?hl=en 09:36:20 dpeg_: the same discussion is on rgrm 09:36:31 MarvinPA: did you read it? It gives me the creeps! 09:36:33 all the posts in it (that I can see) have been crossposted to both rgrd and rgra 09:36:37 it's weird 09:36:52 umm, rgrd and rgrm 09:36:56 the changes just don't mesh with the stated design goals at all 09:37:46 hehe, his take on Monks is to give them 3,0 slaying :) 09:38:31 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:09 dpeg: he also rewrote the philosophy section of the manual, a lot of it seems to be based on the misconception that stone soup is being designed purely for experienced/hardcore players 09:39:30 I wonder where he got that from? 09:39:38 seems like he missed the addition of loads of new early-game content and portal vaults and buffs to unviable strategies :/ 09:39:42 (I am genuinely puzzled.) 09:39:59 yes, for example 09:40:12 I saw Crawl Light some time before you did 09:40:15 one of his stock examples is invisibility 09:40:22 also, nerfing something like Sticky Flame which could play a large part of the game for you can be done in many ways, but should be done 09:40:27 which he thinks needs a buff, because otherwise it's overshadowed by Haste 09:40:47 well, we nerfed Haste ... re unnerfed it 09:40:49 *he 09:40:59 that seems like a strange comparison, they're for totally different purposes 09:41:37 he certainly spent a lot of effort, no doubt about that 09:42:20 Didn't we always state that Crawl is supposed to be winnable without spoilers? 09:42:36 Of course, you can argue what hardcore/experienced means.... 09:42:42 as far as I can tell, Crawl /is/ winnable by spoilers, but the method of doing so requires tediously dying to each monster in the game one at a time 09:43:04 because all monsters are supposed to be a threat, thus all monsters are supposed to kill a player who isn't aware of how to deal with them 09:43:24 well, we assume that players have fun dying and learning 09:43:32 meanwhile, NetHack is also winnable without spoilers, but it takes a very long time because you're trying to figure out the rules of the game 09:43:40 what things like items do, etc 09:43:51 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:00 (there's one relatively well-documented and genuine-seeming unspoiled NetHack ascension) 09:44:17 I actually wonder how hard my own AceHack variant is unspoiled 09:44:18 ais523: I read that, it's neat. 09:44:28 *my own NetHack variant, AceHack 09:44:34 ais523: It's about a hunter of somekind? 09:44:44 ghallberg: not Ellora, she didn't ascend 09:44:46 a different report 09:44:49 Oh ok 09:44:54 Alloras was awesome 09:45:07 it was 09:46:11 now, the interesting thing about the actual unspoiled NetHack ascension is that it used wiztesting, in order to determine things like what items did 09:46:19 hmm 09:46:20 ok 09:46:48 I imagine a Crawl player wouldn't benefit as much from similar techniques, because it's hard to easily assemble a "typical endgame character" to work out what, say, orbs of fire do and how to beat them, even in wizard mode 09:47:08 whereas in NetHack, you can observe what an item does in particular circumstances even in the early game 09:49:28 He could have popularised his version by not just giving percentages instead of adjectives (for stealth and MR), but also by printing damage numbers. 09:52:30 Cool, a fork! 09:53:52 yes! 09:54:50 If we'er getting forked, it must mean we're geting famous? :D 09:55:09 NetHack still has more forks than Crawl 09:55:50 well that's partly because they're necessary for any further development at all to happen, presumably :P 09:56:03 yep 09:56:09 ais523: forks/time 09:56:18 and I can think the vanilla NetHack devteam's making mistakes 09:56:23 especially with regards to interface 09:56:44 I think AceHack unofficially aims to have a better interface than Crawl (although I'm concentrating on the tty interface for now) 09:57:08 good luck, our interface is pretty slick :P 09:57:13 and it is not stagnant either 09:57:37 Crawl's interface has killed me several times in the past 09:57:49 the worst problem is inconsistency in how many keystrokes a command takes 09:58:04 I can type za. and that casts the spell in slot a, except if I don't have enough MP it waits one turn instead 09:58:20 and waiting one turn in combat probably isn't what you want to do 09:58:20 I see, but I also think you're a little special in that regard :) 09:58:41 hmm, I'm sure I'm not the only person who makes that typo 09:58:51 that's definitely an issue i run into as well, most of my config consists of force_more_messages and things like that to explicitly prevent me making mistakes like that 09:58:59 macroing z to Z also helps a lot 09:59:33 my only Crawl macro at the moment is swapping o and v 09:59:40 because I'm so used to v = autoexplore from AceHack 09:59:47 possibly if i played slower i wouldn't run into those issues, but this way i can play quickly and have my config save me from making silly mistakes :P 09:59:54 a lot of it can be improved but the point is, if someone makes a decent interface proposal, it will go in 10:00:01 (although, I don't autoexplore that much there, the game isn't dumbed-down enough for a bot to do exploring nearly as well as a human) 10:00:20 (arguably Crawl isn't either, but people have learnt to live with autoexplore 10:00:22 ) 10:04:01 you can also play the whole game in hints mode in Ace; I actually won like that, the last hint I got was deep into Gehennom when I wielded a silver saber to offhand it and the tutorial told me it wasn't an appropriate weapon 10:04:16 why does Crawl's hints mode stop after a while? hints on what to do in, say, the entrance to Zot, could be useful 10:04:32 because nobody bothered to type in more hints :) 10:04:37 ah, aha 10:04:49 also, iirc, it wasn't clear if the whole devteam stood behind hints 10:06:11 oh right, I think the last one I got was when I farlooked a monster because I didn't recognise the letter/color combo, and got told "that's a monster", that was hilarious 10:07:16 ouch 10:07:42 well, it told me what the monster was too, because the tutorial mode knows better than to overwrite game messages 10:08:34 03MarvinPA * r4da3cb678e4d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: Make the hell lords guard their runes, as pan lords do 10:08:36 03MarvinPA * r17b7a6df2900 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/volcano.des: Add an exit near the entrance of volcano_lake 10:09:43 nice 10:10:42 ggeezz the Blackguard (L10 SpEn) ASSERT(abs(armour_plus) < 20) in 'monster.cc' at line 902 failed on turn 9752. (D:8) 10:17:01 hints are definitely awesome 10:19:34 In Light, silent spectre change, and adding them to skeletal warrior packs sounds interesting. 10:19:34 Keskitalo: you think we should slowly extend them until they cover all parts of the game? 10:20:05 I don't see why not, that would definitely reduce the need of spoilers. 10:20:14 We should have no qualms of salvaging the good ideas from the fork, of course. 10:24:53 dpeg_: Haven't seen many so far, but yeah 10:26:06 Keskitalo: while reading, make a list of what'd be good to take! 10:27:04 warnings for casting ice/firestorm when they might hit you were one thing i noticed 10:27:33 i think the new targeting system starts to address that but that only works for firestorm so far and it doesn't give an explicit warning 10:31:48 ais523: i make the za. 10:31:50 typo as well 10:32:08 usually if I'm expecting a different spell letter than I have 10:32:16 I think Crawl has a similar issue with eating, but I'm not so sure on that one 10:32:30 (NetHack definitely does; it was fixed in Slash'EM and I copied their fix) 10:32:54 ey? 10:33:02 yep, that one 10:33:02 (you turn to stone) 10:34:45 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:36:16 ais523: Ideas on how we could do it better? 10:36:45 an error message that eats the keystroke 10:36:59 perhaps letting people go into targeting mode with a spell that they can't cast, so they can see how it would work 10:37:04 and not casting it when the location is confirmed 10:40:39 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:03 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:51 win 47 10:50:53 sorry 11:00:15 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:50 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:27 -!- casmith789 is now known as casmith_789 11:26:12 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 11:32:08 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:00 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:59:58 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:18 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:32 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:13:56 -!- Guest61102 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:16 -!- Guest61102 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:00 -!- Letchik has left ##crawl-dev 12:21:14 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:46:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:41 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:48 -!- ais523 has quit [Changing host] 12:49:48 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:22 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:26 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:51 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:04 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:02 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 13:20:18 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:21:01 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:13 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:33 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:46 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:41 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:54 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:55 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:59 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:53:08 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:15 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:37 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:06 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:01 some interesting statistics from the first few days of the tourney, compared with previous years: 15:01:15 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01:18 !lg * t rend<2011071520 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving / won 15:01:20 3944 games for * (t rend<2011071520 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving): N=29/3944 (0.74%) 15:01:35 !lg * t11a rend<2011041620 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving / won 15:01:36 5086 games for * (t11a rend<2011041620 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving): N=37/5086 (0.73%) 15:01:54 !lg * t10 rend<2010070320 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving / won 15:01:55 5688 games for * (t10 rend<2010070320 ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving): N=27/5688 (0.47%) 15:02:33 first was this tourney, second was beginning of the may tourney, third was beginning of the 2010 tourney 15:02:48 so winning rate is increasing 15:03:02 omg, it's too easy? 15:03:03 more evidence that crawl's getting easier :P 15:03:16 heh 15:03:21 Or the people who play on CAO are getting better 15:03:25 or bad players are playing less? 15:03:57 dtsund: I'd like to see any evidence you have that crawl is getting harder 15:04:19 number of games is decreasing. But maybe it's because players are getting farther and games are longer. 15:04:29 the statistics I just displayed could certainly be caused by a lot of things 15:04:37 Do you have numbers for goodplayers and non-goodplayers? 15:04:46 would be interesting to see some stats for webtiles games as well, when that's up and running 15:04:48 goodplayers? 15:05:00 is there a good way request games from sequell that ended after the orb grab? 15:05:04 Yeah, people aliased as goodplayers; people with 10+ CAO wins 15:05:11 Er, CAO/CDO 15:05:13 looking at those numbers wouldn't make any sense 15:05:17 since people get better over time 15:05:25 but the nick is for people who are currently goodplayers 15:05:26 That's my point, though 15:05:44 The non-goodplayers would be the ones relatively new to the game 15:05:46 looking at statistics for 2010 using a list based on 2011 data is just stupid 15:05:54 Oh, true 15:05:59 dtsund: some devteam members were asking in here earlier if you were willing to talk to the devteam about your variant 15:06:05 Oh, certainly 15:06:22 hey dtsund! :D 15:06:24 I'd be willing to explain the rationale behind any individual change you want 15:06:31 zannick: there is as of 0.9 15:06:44 because now you get the milestone when you pick up the orb rather than when you walk over it 15:06:47 why revert the sticky flame nerf? 15:06:50 Some of them weren't related to easy/hard; I removed monstrous demonspawn, for instance, because they were startscummy 15:07:13 Because range 1 fire magic doesn't really fit fire, which is designed around blaster mages 15:07:24 A range one sticky ice spell would make much more sense 15:07:37 !lm * t type=orb s=ckiller 15:07:37 32 milestones for * (t type=orb): 29x winning, 1x a pandemonium lord, 1x a Pit Fiend, 1x a storm dragon 15:07:48 so it's not about balance then. I see. 15:07:55 zannick: ^^ killers in tourney games that ended after an orb grab 15:08:06 If there were a good way to put Icicle in fire and Sticky in ice, that'd be a nice way to have range 1 sticky spell 15:08:11 storm dragon? i missed that one, huh 15:08:14 !lm & t type=orb ktyp!=winning s=place 15:08:15 Malformed argument: & 15:08:19 !lm * t type=orb ktyp!=winning s=place 15:08:19 3 milestones for * (t type=orb ktyp!=winning): 3x Zot:5 15:08:27 and none were on the orbrun itself 15:08:31 !lm * t type=orb ktyp!=winning s=lg:place 15:08:31 3 milestones for * (t type=orb ktyp!=winning): 1x D:18, 1x D:27, 1x Zot:2 15:08:34 ais523: no 15:08:35 elliptic: ah, excellent 15:08:38 your query was wrong 15:08:46 ah, I see 15:08:50 In fact, I think it'd be preferable (I never did like sticky that much, actually) 15:08:55 I was querying for where they found the Orb, wasn't i 15:08:57 *I 15:09:05 and that's obviously on Zot:5 15:09:21 dtsund: "fire, which is designed around blaster mages" <- I thought it was designed around fire 15:09:35 10% lethality on the orb run sounds good 15:09:41 Well, sure. But basically everything in it is attack. 15:09:45 ais523: yep :) 15:09:55 Ice spell list is more useful for hybrids. 15:10:18 dtsund: Why not let fire have that chance aswell? 15:10:27 I think variety is a good thing. 15:10:30 I mean, that was the whole point behind swapping the ranges of the ice and fire spells 15:10:50 (Which I think was a good idea) 15:11:09 not all fire spells need to be long-range nukes 15:11:13 Well, having fire only contain ranged nukes woudl be pretty boring. 15:11:18 yes 15:11:27 but ranged sticky flame is just broken. If you don't like the touch sticky flame, then just remove the spell instead of reverting the nerf. 15:11:29 in fact that's what most of the criticism of the fire school tends to consist of, yeah 15:11:41 !lm * t type=orb / ktyp!=winning 15:11:41 32 milestones for * (t type=orb): N=3/32 (9.38%) 15:11:47 !lm * t10 type=orb / ktyp!=winning 15:11:48 345 milestones for * (t10 type=orb): N=24/345 (6.96%) 15:11:49 What's the definition of overpowered being used here? 15:11:56 zannick: that second query doesn't work 15:11:58 because old version 15:12:23 right, but it's close 15:12:23 before 0.9, that would count people who cleared zot:5 for xp and walked over the orb at some point, and then died in pan 15:12:37 !lm * t10 type=orb ktyp!=winning s=lg:place 15:12:38 24 milestones for * (t10 type=orb ktyp!=winning): 6x Zot:5, 5x D:$, 2x Lair:2, 1x D:2, 1x Pan, 1x Lair:5, 1x D:24, 1x Zig:19, 1x D:7, 1x Abyss, 1x Zot:4, 1x Geh:2, 1x D:27, 1x Hive:2 15:13:08 !lm * t10 type=orb ktyp!=winning place=d:$ 15:13:08 No milestones for * (t10 type=orb ktyp!=winning place=d:$). 15:13:14 dtsund: being able to clear the whole dungeon with a single spell? 15:13:18 oh, right, and that was the tourney with points and a banner for destroying the orb 15:13:23 which confuses things more 15:13:26 SO much botspam >.< 15:13:29 oh right 15:13:41 !lm * t11a type=orb / ktyp!=winning 15:13:42 250 milestones for * (t11a type=orb): N=17/250 (6.80%) 15:13:55 Sticky flame does have significant drawbacks compared to icicle 15:14:01 We should have a "##crawl-stat-nerds" channel :D 15:14:04 without that destruction thing 15:14:12 You have to wait for your target to die, and it doesn't work nearly as well against things that resist fire 15:14:26 galehar: to tell the truth sticky flame is still pretty overpowered, but it is definitely more interesting to use 15:14:41 I actually prefer Icicle over ranged Sticky for these very reasons 15:15:30 I mean, you can clear the whole dungeon with Mystic Blast, too 15:17:42 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:07 dtsund: I think most of us found stuff in your notes that we liked actually. 15:19:55 Feel free to incorporate any of it you want into SS; I could put together patches, if you want. 15:21:06 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:24 On a semi-unrelated note, which of these do you think looks better: http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/halosample3.png or http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/halosample4.png ? 15:21:45 I'm debating whether I should use my own tile for halos or the Stone Soup one 15:22:14 how does yours interact with targetting? 15:22:25 it looks like cloud targetting 15:22:27 Targetting is more opaque and vivid 15:22:40 It does stand out over the halo, I checked 15:22:48 dtsund: I.... don't even know what I'm looking at... 15:22:49 well, your version definitely looks better 15:22:54 Tiles are wierd! 15:23:03 You should outline the halo with a band of yellow 15:23:08 just saying 15:23:35 ZChris13: I think it's a pain to code 15:23:44 Yeah it would be 15:23:48 I would imagine so, yeah 15:23:55 You'd have to identify only the outside edges 15:24:00 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:02 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 15:24:13 and figure out how to wrangle tiles into displaying that. 15:24:25 dtsund: do you have a public git repo from where we can cherry pick stuff? Should be more convenient than exchanging patches. 15:25:06 I do. 15:25:13 Hang on, my 'net connection's being a slow. 15:25:23 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:27 git@github.com:dtsund/dtsund-crawl-mod.git 15:25:51 (I made the page before I had a name for the thing) 15:26:05 Alternately, https://github.com/dtsund/dtsund-crawl-mod 15:26:38 i was going to suggest cherrypicking the relevant bits of https://github.com/dtsund/dtsund-crawl-mod/commit/a9dc94012c6686845796be49d0038ba1abbdd7e1#source/dat/descript/items.txt actually, yeah 15:27:04 since i made a start on book descriptions a while back but couldn't come up with anything good for most of them 15:27:57 I also feel like I should probably explain the restoration of Selective Amnesia, since that one was an outright revert, and one I had a significant reason for doing 15:28:08 some of those descriptions look like they could be potentially confusing since they are replacing the "book of magic spells" bit 15:28:28 not sure 15:28:29 The mere existence of such a spell sends a powerful message to beginners, which is "experiement with spells to your heart's content" 15:28:40 mm, the flavour could probably fit in addition to "a book of magic spells" in most cases? 15:28:55