00:00:54 <Gretell> Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-11-g3560198 (32)
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00:07:55 <Gretell> Windows builds of pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-11-g3560198
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00:24:37 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-239-g13b0f5f (32)
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02:24:34 <Zaba_> moin
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02:46:47 <due> gah
02:46:57 <Zaba_> due, what up
02:47:02 <due> when i finally have time to sit down and add edlothiol ... there is no edlothiol to be found!
02:48:30 <due> oh well, done anyway.
02:52:46 <Zaba_> yay?
02:54:08 <due> i have assimilated edlothiol into dcss -- so unless ii get a 'er no' reply... we have a new team member!
02:55:00 <due> Keskitalo: <3
02:55:32 <due> Keskitalo: I confess, I went ahead and did it after hearing from most of the team plus everyone who was active (not that I really count myself as ... active).
02:56:54 <Keskitalo> Yeah, I figured you'd probably have done it already, which is fine.
02:57:24 * due nod.
02:59:17 <due> I'll be "off" until October, probably, or maybe December... butI'll definitely be getting more involved in the new year.
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03:06:02 <galehar> is something wrong with CAO?
03:06:04 <galehar> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2341&p=26770#p26762
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03:07:40 <elliptic> !lg lordfrikk x=cv
03:07:41 <Sequell> 246. [cv=0.9-a] lordfrikk the Insei (L4 SETm), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2011-08-13, with 264 points after 2808 turns and 0:14:55.
03:07:51 <elliptic> !lg lordfrikk x=rstart
03:07:51 <Sequell> 246. [rstart=2011-08-02 [20110702205848S]] lordfrikk the Insei (L4 SETm), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2011-08-13, with 264 points after 2808 turns and 0:14:55.
03:08:56 <elliptic> !lg lordfrikk rstart>=20110713
03:08:56 <Sequell> No games for lordfrikk (rstart>=20110713).
03:09:11 <elliptic> galehar: he started the game before the tournament began
03:09:18 <elliptic> nearly two weeks before
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03:10:52 <galehar> lol. ok
03:11:13 <elliptic> ask him to play another game :)
03:11:28 <galehar> er he said he played a short game yesterday
03:12:13 <elliptic> presumably what happened is that he started a character two weeks ago, but then saved it at turn 0 or so
03:12:38 <elliptic> and then when he logged back on, he wasn't paying that much attention and didn't notice that it skipped over character selection
03:12:47 <galehar> ok, make sense
03:13:41 <elliptic> the morgue file even says "Began as a Sludge Elf Transmuter on Aug 2, 2011.", so it isn't sequell being messed up
03:17:59 <galehar> ok, thanks
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05:05:18 <Vbitz> i am getting this error when i try to build webtiles
05:05:18 <Vbitz> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/include/pnglibconf.h', needed by `tool/tile_colour.o'.  Stop.
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05:23:30 <galehar> looks like you need libpng 1.5
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06:11:26 <dpeg_> Hi!
06:11:27 <due> hi deepleg!
06:11:30 <dpeg_> I noted that the current tournament is neither announced at CAO or CDO.
06:11:49 <dpeg_> hi due!
06:11:56 <galehar> 0.9 release hasn't been announced either
06:12:02 <dpeg_> true
06:12:13 <galehar> except some guy who posted on rgrm :P
06:12:19 <dpeg_> yes!
06:12:41 <dpeg_> I should really stop doing reading rgrm. It is dead.
06:12:51 <ghallberg> rgrm?
06:13:07 <dpeg_> rec.games.roguelikes.misc -- a USENET group
06:13:25 <dpeg_> it used to be active and important but not anymore
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06:13:44 <ghallberg> ah
06:13:53 <galehar> access is restricted to bearded people
06:13:58 <due> twitter is where it's atnow!
06:14:30 * ghallberg has a beard.
06:14:39 <dpeg_> ...restricted to bearded people who never touched twitter, facebook or google+ -- like me :
06:14:40 <dpeg_> :)
06:18:13 <ghallberg> ah, a master of the arts
06:18:16 <dpeg_> ghallberg: is your beard large enough to contain your fist?
06:18:19 <due> dpeg_: I assimilated edlothiol also, unless i get a "er no thanks" email :)
06:18:19 <ghallberg> Nah, i'm not a real neckbeard :(
06:18:19 <dpeg_> Before we wonder what should go into 0.10 (and how to call it), there are two urgent topics, imo: 1. pool information so that the next release will be less erratic
06:18:19 <dpeg_> due: yay <3
06:18:19 <due> dpeg_: i will be able to contribute a hell of a lot more after the end of november
06:18:20 <dpeg_> sounds great!
06:18:20 <due> (my if project and my novel will be over and i wlil have a lot of free time again!)
06:18:20 <ghallberg> Sadly I don't have much information to pool, but a "release checklist" page on the wiki would be neat.
06:18:20 <dpeg_> 2. sort out high end spells
06:18:20 <ghallberg> due: I want to read your novel (and maybe your project)
06:18:20 <dpeg_> greensnark started such a checklist and jpeg kept it up to date, but we need more information, it seems (only if Napkin wasn't around)
06:18:34 <galehar> dpeg_: 1) release schedule. No more release in the middle of summer when everybody's away on holidays. Schedule releases for february 1st and july 1st.
06:18:54 <dpeg_> good point
06:19:08 <ghallberg> galehar: No release before feb?
06:19:19 <ghallberg> nvm, it's reasonable
06:19:21 <ghallberg> I guess
06:19:23 <galehar> yes. 2 per year is enough
06:19:33 <dpeg_> yes, two is good
06:19:44 <due> ghallberg: i do not actually publish my novels but the if project will be online in september!
06:20:18 <ghallberg> due: Then e-mail me a copy ;) You know you want it!
06:20:38 <ghallberg> galehar: but 2/year in feb and june?
06:20:44 <ghallberg> sounds like an odd schedule.
06:21:06 <galehar> 2 months before ubuntu.
06:21:12 <galehar> so they can include a fresh crawl
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06:21:36 <ghallberg> hehe
06:22:01 <ghallberg> Wouldn't january and july make more sense?
06:22:22 <ghallberg> the autumn will still feel kinda left out :)
06:22:34 <dpeg_> ghallberg: a feature and a stabilisation release
06:28:55 <ghallberg> Sounds cool, still feel dissatisfied with the lack of symetry </ocd>
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06:30:19 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
06:31:04 <galehar> ghallberg: feb and july release make one every 6 months
06:31:35 <galehar> and releasing on 1st of january sounds like a terrible idea
06:31:45 <ghallberg> 1/2 and 1/7, that looks like 5 months to me?
06:31:58 <ghallberg> Anyway yes. You're right,
06:32:09 <ghallberg> It's just my sense of odd aesthetics
06:34:44 <ghallberg> So do we plan to make a stabilization release next then?
06:38:34 <galehar> hmm, right. Stupid month numbering scheme which doesn't start at 0...
06:38:34 <galehar> wasn't 0.9 a stabilization release? :P
06:38:34 <galehar> there's no need to tag release like that. Some features are introduced in one release and will be stabilized in the next.
06:38:34 <ghallberg> how would 0-indexing help? XD
06:38:34 <galehar> the skill system will definitely go through several tweaks in 0.10
06:38:34 <ghallberg> I'm relly looking forward to next iteration of skills :)
06:38:35 <ghallberg> I'm gonna write a patch for auto-identing known simple magic items.
06:38:35 <ghallberg> Like +1 robes
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06:38:38 <ghallberg> And I don't care if it makes stuff tosimple :P
06:38:38 <galehar> biggest change will be fuzzing. Then some minor tweaks to the interface and auto mode.
06:38:43 <dpeg_> there will also be lengthy debates about 0.10 vs 1.0 etc :)
06:39:03 <galehar> I vote for 0.10
06:39:11 <due> i also vote for 0.10
06:39:11 <dpeg_> ok, so that's it
06:39:13 <ghallberg> 0.A!
06:39:20 <due> we're really nowhere near 1.0 stage
06:39:22 <galehar> aren't we geek enough?
06:39:26 <ghallberg> Because it will break everything.
06:39:33 <dpeg_> which will cause follow up debates about when/if 1.0 is reached
06:39:35 <ghallberg> 0.10 sounds good to me
06:39:42 <ghallberg> if we need to be serious.
06:40:54 <galehar> dpeg_: I hope that in a few years we'll reach a point where many devs feel like we have reach 1.0 stage
06:41:38 <galehar> have to go now
06:41:39 <galehar> 'later
06:41:46 <dpeg_> see you later!
06:42:11 <dpeg_> since devs come and go, I am not sure if that feeling will persist :)
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06:49:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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06:51:53 <dpeg_> edlothiol: Hi!
06:51:56 <edlothiol> hi :)
06:53:15 <edlothiol> due: I won't resist the assimilation and am very honored to be on the team :)
06:58:38 <due> excellent
06:58:40 <dpeg_> !coffee edlothiol
06:58:41 * Henzell hands edlothiol a pot of caf� au lait, brewed by Crazy Yiuf.
06:58:44 <ghallberg> So, as we're released and there's a tourney on, maybe I should play some!
06:58:44 <due> !tell Napkin Can you tweak whatever is necessary to give edlothiol committer-etc access to mantis? I thinnk there is already access; I am uncertain.
06:58:44 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let Napkin know.
06:58:44 <dpeg_> due: don't we still have to stumble through SF for this?
06:58:44 <dpeg_> at least I seem to recall this from last additions
06:58:44 <due> dpeg_: in theory, no
06:58:44 <edlothiol> Napkin already gave me a developer account on mantis so I'd be able to close webtiles bugs, but I have no idea if that's all that is needed
06:58:44 <due> edlothiol: right, that's what I thought
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07:07:07 <ghallberg> Did you change it to point att 0.9 branch then?
07:07:19 <ghallberg> Not that we will be commiting much overthe next week or so I guess...
07:07:24 <dpeg_> This will be the first tournament which does not lead to new records in the statistics :(
07:07:38 <ghallberg> Remind me again, what's the point of Animal Skins?
07:07:45 <ghallberg> dpeg_: You mean in number of platyers etc?
07:07:49 <dpeg_> ghallberg: I think it's just because Napkin is not around
07:07:51 <dpeg_> ghallberg: yes
07:08:13 <ghallberg> Yeah, there's been quite a panic about it in the last week yeah.
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08:09:48 <ionfrigate> I'm getting the stupid "Another game is already in progress using this save!" error
08:09:50 <ionfrigate> can anyone help?
08:12:36 <ionfrigate> anyone?
08:13:05 <elliptic> iirc that error sometimes fixes itself if you wait a little bit... did this just happen?
08:13:34 <ionfrigate> yeah just a little bit ago
08:16:05 <elliptic> I don't actually know what causes that error, I just remember getting it myself once and it seeming to only be a temporary thing
08:17:14 <ionfrigate> well my connection dropped during the game
08:17:37 <elliptic> yes
08:21:17 <Henzell> IonFrigate the Alchemist (L21 SENe)  (D:16)
08:23:10 <ionfrigate> alright it recovered it
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09:34:49 <Henzell> BirdoPrey the Grappler (L14 TrTm) ASSERT(t != NON_ENTITY && t < MAX_SHOPS) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2087 failed on turn 26137. (Abyss)
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11:24:51 <dpeg_> I just got both XL 3 and XL 4 from a water moccasin skeleton. Is that expected?
11:25:31 <Zaba> @??water moccasin skeleton
11:25:31 <Gretell> water moccasin skeleton (15z) | Speed: 12 | HD: 4 | Health: 20-36 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Damage: 8 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 74.
11:25:53 <dpeg_> 74 seems enough, yes
11:27:02 <dpeg_> Zaba: thank you!
11:27:09 <elliptic> they are sort of dangerous for most chars at XL 2 so it seems fair enough :)
11:27:15 <elliptic> (not for TrAs though if you are still on that)
11:27:49 <dpeg_> I am -- shouldn't I?
11:29:58 <elliptic> sure :)
11:30:32 <elliptic> I just meant that I had noticed you playing one earlier and wasn't sure whether you still were
11:31:01 <dpeg_> I managed to die in a Bailey with my first one --- must've been stupidity.
11:32:25 <ghallberg> Random thought: Why do rations use the same glyph as Jackal (and other) corpses?
11:32:50 <ghallberg> Couldn't they be bolded?
11:32:55 <dpeg_> not enough colours?
11:33:04 <dpeg_> you can probably bold them yourself
11:33:21 <ghallberg> Myeah, seems like they are important tnough
11:34:55 <ghallberg> dpeg_: You don't think it's something that should be changed by default?
11:35:28 <Zaba> ghallberg, ehm, bold is bright
11:35:36 <ghallberg> right...
11:35:39 <ghallberg> silly terminals.
11:35:56 <dpeg_> not so obvious how...
11:38:35 <ghallberg> Meh, I don't think my ideas through well enough
11:39:28 <dpeg_> we could simply use different colours for bread/meat rations ... just not sure if it is important enough
11:39:58 <dpeg_> (For example, I am convinced that it is very important to change all monster colours which are identical to the walls in their natural habitat.
11:40:19 <dpeg_> This would mean cockroach, rat, jackal etc. Btw, this would also solve your problem :)
11:41:24 <ghallberg> Yeah, but still very few colors...
11:41:40 <ghallberg> I'm all for going 256-color.
11:41:53 <dpeg_> yes, but monsters being hard to see is enough to make me recolour them
11:42:31 <ghallberg> brown fits them though...
11:42:48 <dpeg_> gameplay > flavour
11:42:58 <dpeg_> the other big offender is Shoals
11:43:23 <ghallberg> yeah, it's even worse with the water
11:44:05 <dpeg_> it is a video game, everything should be easy to spot
11:47:21 <ghallberg> While we're on the topic: If we choose to go 256-c, how large of a rewrite would it require?
11:47:36 <dpeg_> no idea
11:47:52 <dpeg_> but from a purely design POV this also brings drawbacks
11:48:17 <dpeg_> no doubt all those colours would be used to populate the monster glyphs with new monsters, and I don't like that idea
11:48:33 <Zaba> if you "go" 256 colors, what do you display when they're not supported?
11:49:08 <ghallberg> Zaba: Either define fallbacks or just drop support for those terminals
11:49:32 <Zaba> it'd just bring in a lot of similar colors, and I don't think that's really helpful
11:50:04 <dpeg_> 16 is a bit cramped, especially since we often cannot use all of them
11:50:13 <Eronarn> what would be worthwhile is looking at which of those 256 colors we'd actually use
11:50:25 <dpeg_> but 256 -- we don't need such wasteful luxury :)
11:50:45 <ghallberg> Well, we could arbitrarily pick 32 of those 256, but I don't see the point.
11:50:48 <dpeg_> (256 colours would make for awesome scenery, of course.)
11:52:00 <Eronarn> ghallberg: well the point would be seeing which ones are distinguishable enough to be usable as colors
11:52:08 <Eronarn> and which ones are only going to be useful for elemental stuff
11:52:11 <ghallberg> Eronarn: Yeah, that's true.
11:55:21 <Eronarn> we could also use some of them for status effects, possibly
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12:29:46 <Wensley> I do like the idea of that unicode-joining thing for status effects, or possibly to denote uniques
12:30:00 <Wensley> just giving uniques an umlaut or something would free up a lot of colors for normal monsters
12:30:09 <Wensley> and also make them more distinct, especially tiamat
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12:30:48 <Wensley> and yeah, I'm a big advocate of 256 colors, but I don't think they should really be used for anything *but* eye candy. no having 256 different monsters per glyph
12:31:01 <MarvinPA> 256 types of ugly thing!
12:31:10 <Wensley> actually, that reminds me, I wanted to run a poll of the types of terminal that people were using to play crawl
12:31:44 <dtsund> Alternately, PuTTY and Gnome-terminal.
12:32:03 <dtsund> But mostly tiles.
12:32:37 <Wensley> dpeg: why do you think that this tournament won't break any records? just because it's shorter? because it wasn't as well-announced?
12:33:05 <Wensley> if nothing else, bay12 has really pulled out the stops, I think they have 50 players or more this year
12:33:13 <Zaba> I use xterm for everything, including crawl purposes, but I'm not sure whether I count :P
12:33:47 <elliptic> wensley: I did some comparisons earlier and there are definitely fewer players so far
12:34:00 <elliptic> presumably we'll get more once webtiles gets updated
12:34:49 <elliptic> !lg * t rend<=201107141200 x=cdist(name)
12:34:49 <Sequell> 2296 games for * (t rend<=201107141200): cdist(name)=284
12:35:02 <elliptic> !lg * t11a rend<=201104151200 x=cdist(name)
12:35:03 <Sequell> 2927 games for * (t11a rend<=201104151200): cdist(name)=445
12:35:50 <elliptic> !lg * t10 rend<=201007021200 x=cdist(name)
12:35:51 <Sequell> 3521 games for * (t10 rend<=201007021200): cdist(name)=307
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12:36:07 <Wensley> I think the novelty of a brand new webtiles will be hard to beat :)
12:36:29 <elliptic> well, webtiles certainly contributed to the may tourney having so many players
12:36:30 <Wensley> the fact that we've already surpassed last year's player count is something to be proud of
12:36:39 <elliptic> what? no we haven't
12:36:44 <Wensley> ih wait, I guess we've almost surpassed it :P
12:36:49 <Wensley> 271
12:37:20 <elliptic> 284 vs 307 players finishing a game in the first 36 hours
12:38:16 <RichardHawk> A link to the tournament page from crawl.develz.org would be nice
12:38:17 <Wensley> wait, so t actually works?
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12:38:34 <elliptic> if you are looking at the player list for last year's tourney, that doesn't give the actual count
12:38:43 <Wensley> right, the numbering is weird
12:38:46 <elliptic> or at least I don't know where you are getting 271
12:38:48 <Wensley> I remember being mad about that last year :P
12:38:56 <elliptic> the numbering is more sensible now :P
12:38:58 <Wensley> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/tourney11/all-players.html
12:39:02 <MarvinPA> well, there's been no news post about this one has there?
12:39:11 <Wensley> the players tied for last place are numbered 271
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12:39:18 <Wensley> hence 271 players, since numbering is now sensible
12:39:28 <Adeon> do players have to separately register to show on tournament lists?
12:39:34 <Adeon> or do they just play
12:39:37 <Wensley> as long as they play 0.9 they count
12:39:42 <Adeon> I see
12:39:53 <elliptic> 271 players with a positive score currently, yes
12:39:55 <Wensley> maybe clanless players don't show up on that page
12:40:03 <Wensley> wait no
12:40:05 <Wensley> they obviously do
12:40:15 <Wensley> 271 players with nonnegative score
12:40:18 <elliptic> no
12:40:20 <elliptic> more than that
12:40:30 <elliptic> 272 means tied for 272nd place
12:40:42 <Wensley> 272?
12:40:48 <Adeon> ah, I just wanted to see how the tournament compares to the nethack tournament that is about to end but if it works this way it's a little harder to make a comparison
12:40:56 <Adeon> because in the nh tournament, you have to separately register
12:40:57 <Wensley> oh right, I get it now
12:41:06 <elliptic> wensley: the sequell query is the correct way to figure this out
12:41:18 <Wensley> I thought I had heard that t was broken :P
12:41:27 <elliptic> !lm * t x=cdist(name)
12:41:30 <Sequell> 8216 milestones for * (t): cdist(name)=284
12:41:31 <elliptic> greensnark fixed it yesterday
12:41:39 <elliptic> !lg * t x=cdist(name)
12:41:39 <Sequell> 2597 games for * (t): cdist(name)=304
12:41:41 <Wensley> oh cool
12:41:57 <elliptic> 304 players have played at least one game
12:42:06 <elliptic> this doesn't mean they got a positive score
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12:42:22 <Wensley> anyway, I do feel like our media blitz could have been more comprehensive :P although perhaps you were reticent because of the complications at the beginning of the tournament
12:42:44 <elliptic> we were at around the same number of players last year at this point
12:42:56 <elliptic> and nearly 50% higher in the may tourney
12:43:07 <elliptic> !lg * t10 x=cdist(name)
12:43:08 <Sequell> 58428 games for * (t10): cdist(name)=1091
12:43:09 <Wensley> right, webtiles is a big deal
12:43:24 <elliptic> we had 1091 players last year but of course that was a longer tourney
12:43:54 <elliptic> wensley: yeah, it wasn't clear until the last day that the tourney would actually start on time
12:43:55 <Wensley> also with two tourneys per year there will be less of a frenzy
12:44:21 <Wensley> still, I like two shorter tourneys
12:44:21 <elliptic> and it was announced in a couple places I think? just not on CDO
12:45:05 <elliptic> an announcement on CDO would be good but it makes sense to announce 0.9 at the same time (or first)
12:45:23 <elliptic> and I don't feel qualified to do that myself
12:46:18 <Wensley> who is qualified that is around? :P
12:47:35 <Eronarn> due in a few hours, maybe..?
12:47:39 <elliptic> not sure, someone who can produce something like http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/faster-pussycats-kill-kill
12:47:59 <elliptic> due does most of these announcements, yeah... not sure how much time he has currently for this sort of thing though
12:48:25 <bhaak> there's a "Kill!" missing in that title
12:49:07 <Eronarn> is there an importance-sorted changelist already?
12:49:26 <Wensley> right, it would probably make sense to withhold the announcement until napkin gets back
12:49:37 <Wensley> the changelist itself is somewhat sorted
12:49:59 <Wensley> not that there's many huge changes in this version besides the skill system
12:50:21 <Eronarn> i wouldn't mind writing up a blog-post-friendly version of the changes, but i haven't been really active
12:50:29 <Eronarn> so i can't remember what stuff has made it into .8 vs .9
12:52:22 <elliptic> http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/stone_soup-0.9/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt
12:52:32 <elliptic> is the only list of changes I know of
12:52:49 <Wensley> marvinpa updated it recently
12:52:55 <Wensley> so it should be accurate
12:53:45 <Eronarn> one paragraph for everything on the highlights list sound OK?
12:54:17 <Eronarn> or do we want some things that aren't on that list (like the +3 starting HP)
12:54:33 <ghallberg> I think it's missing implicit butchering
12:54:42 <elliptic> skill training, crusader -> skald, zot defence (though experimental), major god changes to ash chei trog, berserk nerf, implicit butchering
12:54:59 <elliptic> are the major changes IMO
12:55:10 <Wensley> oh right, the butchering also awesome
12:55:19 <elliptic> oh, and catoblepas ;)
12:55:32 <Wensley> (not that you'll ever encounter one :P)
12:55:36 <ghallberg> Drop last might deserve a mention cause it's kinda cool but not very obvious?
12:55:41 <ghallberg> (plugging my own stuff I know)
12:55:48 <Wensley> haha, I had entirely forgotten about drop last
12:55:57 <elliptic> ghallberg: well, it also is much less likely to confuse players
12:56:14 <ghallberg> elliptic: Yeah
12:56:18 <elliptic> it is cool though, I should actually remember to start using it sometime :)
12:56:30 <ghallberg> I remember it every 10th game or so :P
12:56:34 <Eronarn> tell you what: http://pastebin.com/v3kt0MAf
12:56:40 <MarvinPA> i finally properly configured my autopickup so i don't actually need drop last most of the time now
12:56:42 <ghallberg> Leave it of the list
12:56:49 <ghallberg> MarvinPA: heh
12:56:51 <Eronarn> that's 8. i'll do, say, up to 10 short paragraphs
12:56:57 <MarvinPA> but it's definitely still useful for me :)
12:57:32 <Eronarn> that, chei/trog changes as 9, implicit butchering as 10?
12:57:38 <ghallberg> Oh btw, I noticed a vault with a knife in today.
12:57:50 <ghallberg> But it's one of those Xom-taunt vaults that you can treach...
12:57:53 <ghallberg> can't reach*
12:59:13 <Eronarn> i guess we can kind of use the 'this is a polish/refinement update' approach
12:59:17 <Eronarn> do we have a name yet?
13:03:23 <ghallberg> Should it be an alliteration on G?
13:03:35 <Eronarn> are we going in order?
13:03:36 <ghallberg> Or is that just somthing specific to 0.8?
13:03:44 <ghallberg> I have no idea, I've only seen 0.8 P:
13:03:45 <Eronarn> F = 6th letter, not 8th
13:03:50 <elliptic> specific to 0.8
13:04:12 <Eronarn> Stone Soup 0.7.0 “Pacific Pachyderm”
13:04:25 <elliptic> Stone Soup 0.6.0: Heiz�lr�cksto�abd�mpfung
13:04:32 <Eronarn> Stone Soup 0.6.0: Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
13:04:36 <Wensley> oh god, yes
13:04:37 <Eronarn> that's odd, i can read mine but not elliptic's
13:04:44 <elliptic> I can read both :P
13:04:52 <ghallberg> elliptics is broken here
13:05:02 <Wensley> I can read it fine
13:05:26 <Eronarn> Berserk Beefy Butchers?
13:05:27 <ghallberg> "Skilled Skaldic Seers""
13:05:52 <Wensley> "Cat Lobes"
13:06:19 <ghallberg> "Crouching Catoblepas, Berserking Basilisk"
13:06:23 <Wensley> haha
13:06:28 <Eronarn> Stone Soup 0.9.0: Served Skalding Hot
13:06:31 <Wensley> that would work, if had implemented crouching
13:06:52 <ghallberg> s/Crouching/Confused
13:07:19 <Wensley> "The Dance of Victory"
13:07:42 <ghallberg> "The Last Dance of Victory"
13:08:32 <elliptic> I guess 0.5 didn't have a name
13:09:08 <Eronarn> oh, tornado changes are probably worth mentioning
13:09:10 <Eronarn> since they're pretty major
13:09:19 <Eronarn> it's actually pure Air now right?
13:09:28 <elliptic> it was pure air in 0.8 too
13:09:51 <Eronarn> oh hey
13:09:52 <elliptic> but yeah, mentioning tornado changes is probably a good idea
13:09:58 <Eronarn> * Rename "megabat" to "bat".
13:10:01 <Eronarn> Missing Megabats
13:10:39 <Eronarn> * Double the orb's weight.
13:10:40 <Eronarn> Orbesity
13:10:45 <Wensley> let's get dpeg back in here to think of some German words
13:11:01 <Wensley> perhaps each release name should be in a different foreign language
13:11:08 <Eronarn> the past two haven't been :P
13:11:20 <Wensley> english is foreign to someone :P
13:11:37 <Wensley> quick, who here is multilingual
13:11:42 <Eronarn> we did a lot of balance-y changes, we could do something related to balance
13:13:00 <Wensley> "Zero Point Nine"
13:13:21 <Wensley> "Zero Point Ten Minus One"  <-- have to prepare the masses for the inevitable confusion
13:13:21 <bhaak> Wensley: probably every non native english speaker in here is multilingual :)
13:13:45 <Wensley> bhaak: give us a name in your native tongue!
13:14:02 <bhaak> Wensley: i already provided the code name for 0.6 :)
13:14:07 <Wensley> love it
13:14:31 <ghallberg> "Skräniga Skalder"
13:14:40 <Wensley> yes! do it
13:15:24 <Wensley> this is way better than ubuntu's silly animal release names
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13:19:53 <Eronarn> how does the ash skill boost work? it's weapon vs. dodging/armor/shields vs. magic?
13:20:00 <Wensley> also it accurately reflects the distribution of crawl developers
13:20:07 <Wensley> uh, hmm
13:20:26 <Wensley> maybe just announce that ash changes have happened, and leave their discovery as an exercise for the players
13:21:02 <MarvinPA> bound hands boosts weapon and shields if you're using one, bound armour boosts dodging+stealth or armour, bound jewellery boosts magic skills (and evoc i think?)
13:21:11 <elliptic> ??ash skill boost
13:21:22 <MarvinPA> oh right yeah elliptic also documented it!
13:21:27 <elliptic> ??ash skill boost[2]
13:21:27 <Eronarn> * Ashenzari changes. We've finally nailed down Ashenzari balance. His passive XP boost has been replaced with a direct boost to skills. This boost is based on how bound you are and what types of equipment are bound - for example, wield a cursed weapon to improve your weapon skills, or wear a cursed ring to improve your magic skills.
13:21:57 <MarvinPA> have we nailed ashenzari balance to the sky?
13:22:23 <Wensley> s/down/up
13:22:40 <MarvinPA> and that sounds about right, yeah
13:22:58 <Henzell> ash skill boost[1/2]: The formula for the skill boost is min(s, p*f - s/4), where s is your unboosted skill level, p is your piety level in *, and f is 1, 1.25, or 1.5 depending on which skill is being boosted as well as the curse status of your equipment.
13:23:03 <Henzell> ash skill boost[2/2]: 1: staves+evocations (evoc staff), shield, dodging+stealth (evp < 2 armour), dodging+armour (evp 2 or 3 armour), all magic+evoc (jewellery). 1.25: weapon, spellcasting (non-evoc staff), evoc (rod), armour (evp > 3 armour). Weapon bonus increased if 2h (or 1.5h with no shield), armour and jewellery bonuses increased if fully bounded.
13:23:19 <Eronarn> that's not going in the post :P
13:23:22 <elliptic> yes
13:29:29 <Eronarn> @??basilisk
13:29:29 <Gretell> basilisk (06l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 21-39 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 153 | Sp: petrify.
13:31:16 <Eronarn> catoblepas plural?
13:31:23 <Wensley> catoblepae
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13:41:15 <Eronarn> http://pastebin.com/nqhYJDe4
13:41:17 <Eronarn> here's what i have so far
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13:53:54 <elliptic> eronarn: looks good
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14:07:03 <Eronarn> http://pastebin.com/hfSJAJrj
14:07:04 <Eronarn> more or less done
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16:43:13 <dtsund> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.misc/browse_thread/thread/1c586772b64b09a9#
16:55:15 <galehar> why do you say that crawl is getting harder? It always has been hard, I don't feel like it's getting worse.
16:58:32 <dtsund> Because the DCSS trend has been "nerf the player's tools, make monsters harder"
16:58:51 <elliptic> there have been plenty of buffs too
16:59:04 <due> elliptic: hi
16:59:14 <elliptic> due: hi
16:59:20 <MarvinPA> i'm not sure how people get that impression, yeah
16:59:23 <due> elliptic: did you need me to write a blog post still?
16:59:59 <dtsund> elliptic: When things get buffed, they're comically underpowered to start with, like Zin
17:00:34 <Galefury> 0.9 definitely made things harder with the smoother skill costs
17:00:40 <MarvinPA> just like when things get nerfed it's because they're comically overpowered?
17:01:02 <galehar> 0.9 also has more HP to everyone and easier skill training
17:01:22 <Galefury> i havent played 0.9 much, but that hardly seemed to compensate
17:01:22 <MarvinPA> yeah, the hp boost alone is a pretty big deal
17:01:29 <Galefury> not complaining, just saying
17:01:50 <Galefury> yeah, it is, on D:1-3 or so
17:02:00 <Galefury> but after that the skill cost really starts hitting home
17:02:02 <MarvinPA> well that is where crawl is hardest :P
17:02:45 <Galefury> like I said, I'm not complaining, just stating my experiences regarding difficulty
17:02:58 <elliptic> due: that would be great, yeah, since you are the one with experience with these posts :) Eronarn did do a lot of the work earlier with respect to summarizing the major changes of 0.9, so you might want to look at http://pastebin.com/hfSJAJrj
17:03:18 <due> elliptic: Specifically for 0.9 or so the tuorney -- or for both?
17:03:57 -!- dtsund is now known as dtsund-dinner
17:04:22 <elliptic> due: probably having it be for both would be best?
17:04:28 * due nod
17:04:40 <due> okay, I'll see what I can throw together :)
17:05:08 <elliptic> great, thanks :)
17:05:20 <due> do we have a subtitle?
17:06:07 <elliptic> no... there were some proposals earlier, though
17:06:25 <due> Requiem for a Victory Dancer? :D
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17:18:13 <ais523> when's the last time Crawl removed an item, monster, branch, dungeon feature or game mechanic because it was too dangerous for the player?
17:18:26 <due> uh
17:18:29 <due> divinations?
17:18:40 <ais523> I mean, killed the player too often
17:18:47 <ais523> or otherwise made the game too difficult
17:18:53 <due> oh
17:18:59 <due> hardly ever?
17:19:00 <ais523> I think there might have been a change like that in the Slime Pits (toning down the acid walls), but I can't remember
17:19:23 <MarvinPA> that was a bug
17:19:37 <MarvinPA> the damage was, at least
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17:19:50 <MarvinPA> the entire slime level generation did get changed to make it easier to navigate
17:20:08 <ais523> aha, that was it
17:20:08 <elliptic> borgnjor wizlab
17:20:19 <elliptic> was removed because it was ridiculously hard/dangerous
17:20:30 <due> ahh yes
17:20:32 <MarvinPA> there was a borgnjor wizlab?
17:20:35 <due> yes
17:20:39 <MarvinPA> huh!
17:20:45 <elliptic> it had vampire knights with custom spell sets that included miasma
17:20:55 <due> mu wasn't happy with the layout either
17:20:59 <MarvinPA> heh, nice
17:21:14 <due> All right. So what do we think is the most significant change of 0.9?
17:21:25 <elliptic> skill system
17:21:31 <due> yes, agree.
17:22:35 <ais523> agreed
17:22:42 <ais523> it's the most noticeable, at least
17:22:49 <due> So, code name needs something about Victory Dancing.
17:24:06 <ZChris13> most significantly, it is possible to have an HP tank without having to fight.
17:24:06 <due> Victory Dancing's Valedictorian?
17:24:32 <monqy> ZChris13: it was possible before, with much pain
17:24:45 <due> No! Victory Valedictory!
17:24:47 <due> Yes?
17:25:04 <elliptic> <ghallberg> "The Last Dance of Victory"
17:25:07 <elliptic> was a suggestion earlier
17:25:40 <elliptic> Victory Valedictory sounds good even though I'm not sure how much sense it makes :P
17:25:43 <Adeon> Petal Dance!
17:25:46 <Adeon> it also causes confusion
17:26:15 <due> Well, as a noun it means "a farewell or parting address".
17:26:35 <ais523> Adeon: it causes confusion to /its own user/
17:26:48 * Adeon whistles innocently
17:30:34 <due> elliptic: webtiles is new in 0.9 mainline, yes?
17:30:38 <due> elliptic: or is that only in trunk?
17:31:19 <elliptic> due: I think webtiles is new in 0.9 mainline, yes... but CDO webtiles is actually still running 0.8
17:31:37 <elliptic> and won't be updated to 0.9 until Napkin gets back
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17:31:50 <galehar> 0.8 had webtiles too
17:31:50 <dtsund> What'd I miss?
17:31:57 <elliptic> this means that people can't use webtiles for the tourney until then :/
17:31:58 <rawrmage> IRC lines
17:33:25 <elliptic> due: webtiles was announced here already: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/webtiles-and-online-player-status
17:33:37 <elliptic> but that was a couple weeks after 0.8 release
17:33:42 <elliptic> so idk
17:34:18 * due nod
17:34:30 <due> I'll include a mention of it.
17:35:23 <due> !lg ktyp=stupidity
17:35:23 <Sequell> 2. bookofjude the Executioner (L24 MDFi), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, forgot to breathe caused by using a ball of seeing on Slime:2 on 2009-04-09, with 383931 points after 112218 turns and 11:40:51.
17:35:29 <due> !lg ktyp=stupidity -log
17:35:30 <Sequell> 2. bookofjude, XL24 MDFi, T:112218: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/bookofjude/morgue-bookofjude-20090409-004328.txt
17:35:34 <MarvinPA> oh speaking of webtiles, yay for edlothiol getting +v, i missed that in the log earlier :)
17:36:37 <due> MarvinPA: i am an assimilation monster!
17:36:42 <MarvinPA> hurrah!
17:36:45 <due> i misspelt assimmilation? assimmillattionnn?
17:36:55 <due> damn, that one is almost as bad as unnecessary!
17:37:03 <due> which is often spell unneccessary.
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17:43:39 <Eronarn> due: 'often spell'? :P
17:44:57 <due> Eronarn: should've either be 'I often' or 'is often spellt'. can't decide.
17:45:54 <dtsund> "spellt"
17:45:55 <dtsund> ?
17:46:14 * due slaps dtsund with a wet babboon.
17:49:14 <due> :D
17:49:22 <Eronarn> add bassoons to crawl
17:49:25 <Eronarn> they come in tribes in Lair
17:49:40 <due> and screech at you?
17:49:48 <due> oh damn.
17:49:52 <due> i missed a good trumpet joke.
17:50:08 <due> that one just flute past me :(
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17:52:58 <dtsund> due: Get back to drumming up enthusiasm for the new release
17:54:47 <due> edlothiol: Hm, I forget if I have asked this before, do you have a preferred pronoun?
18:04:31 <due> http://pastebin.com/HddXeUe6
18:04:57 <CIA-34> 03galehar * re3d18b63417f 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Don't choose disabled jobs and species on random selection (#4380).
18:05:00 <CIA-34> 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.9 * raaefe4e098af 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Don't choose disabled jobs and species on random selection (#4380).
18:07:33 <edlothiol> due: he
18:07:49 <Galefury> tournament has already started
18:08:05 <due> Oh, true.
18:08:36 * due fixes.
18:10:47 <edlothiol> concerning webtiles, it could probably be mentioned that it has been merged (the 0.8 on CDO is a rebased version from my repository)
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18:12:33 <Galefury> it could also be mentioned that it is not yet actually updated to 0.9
18:13:06 <edlothiol> yes, that too
18:13:28 <Aerdan> In re 'spellt': 'spelt' is a type of wheat.
18:13:40 <Aerdan> </irrelevant-facts>
18:16:40 <Galefury> btw, is webtiles getting mouse support?
18:16:45 <Galefury> because that would be really cool
18:17:27 <edlothiol> Galefury: yes, but it will take some time
18:17:47 <Galefury> in other words, youre not working on it atm?
18:18:11 <edlothiol> I actually have support for looking at other map locations by right-clicking on the minimap, but other controls will need more work
18:19:50 <Galefury> mostly click to autotravel/attack/pick up stuff and the inventory tab would be great
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18:20:23 <Galefury> but i can see that being a lot of work
18:21:38 <elliptic> due: concerning the tournament, the important things are to link to the website (http://crawl.akrasiac.org/tourney11/), say that you can currently play for the tourney with console on either CAO or CDO (choose the option "Trunk" on CDO, "0.9" on CAO), and say that webtiles will count for the tourney once it is updated to 0.9
18:23:13 <edlothiol> Galefury: yeah, and the monster list and simultaneous console output are higher on my list currently
18:25:13 <Galefury> simultaneous console output?
18:25:35 <Galefury> you mean for watching games?
18:25:48 <edlothiol> yes, and for recording them
18:25:59 <Galefury> yeah thats more important for sure
18:26:01 <due> elliptic: excellent, will do
18:28:11 <due> elliptic: http://pastebin.com/tqJEWLcc
18:29:54 <elliptic> due: looks good to me :)
18:34:28 <Galefury> pull on your shoes?
18:34:35 <Galefury> is that a thing?
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18:41:33 <due> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-9-victory-valedictory
18:43:34 <elliptic> great :)
18:44:31 <due> :D
18:47:46 <Eronarn> due: it'd be easier to read if you bolded the first part of the bullets
18:47:48 <Eronarn> like in the last one
18:48:16 <due> Eronarn: Okay, will do that shortly
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19:26:59 <Galefury> the FAQ on the website still says the abyss wraps
19:28:31 <kilobyte> Galefury: the cronjob that updates the FAQ was broken by me adding a note on the manual's wiki page; I've removed it since but it doesn't run daily
19:28:59 <kilobyte> and Napkin who could trigger the update by hand is on vacation
19:32:29 <due> What account does the cron run on?
19:33:47 <Galefury> also, the FAQ says there is no way to play tiles online
19:33:54 <Galefury> Q28
19:36:16 <due> Webtiles is pretty new, though.
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19:52:04 <casmith789> ??mantis
19:52:04 <Henzell> mantis[1/1]: The replacement for sourceforge, mantis can be found at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis
19:59:30 <Ashenzari> dpeg entry castle sometimes guarantees no exit out of the starting area (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4392) by casmith789
19:59:30 <Ashenzari> Water colour is the same for shallow and deep water when viewing through the X screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4391) by casmith789
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20:50:19 <CIA-34> 03dolorous * r7be3dc46dc7d 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Remove unneeded blank line.
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23:39:03 <Gretell> clouded (L27 OgSu) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Coc:4)
23:39:27 <st_> !lm . -log
23:39:27 <Sequell> 19091. clouded, XL27 OgSu, T:188143 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/clouded/crash-clouded-20110815-043902.txt
23:46:20 <st_> can anyone tell if the eldritch tentacle is key that crash or just coincidence? I can't
23:50:43 <dtsund> I've reproduced it locally
23:51:13 <dtsund> Shot an LCS at the base of the tentacle, where the portal was, killing the tentacle; got the same assert failure.
23:51:25 <dtsund> Nonfatal shots don't trigger it
23:54:00 <dtsund> Killing the tentacle by shooting its base after its been severed doesn't trigger it either
23:55:44 <Ashenzari> Crash after an allied iron dragon killed an eldritch tentacle (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4393) by st
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23:58:20 <Zannick> i've been meaning to mention how weird it is that fish corpses make a splash when they die, as if the corpse fell into the water from above it
23:59:34 <elliptic> the fish clearly make a final dying leap out of the water