00:00:49 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-863-g00d5453 (32) 00:02:50 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9-a1-863-g00d5453 (32) 00:08:03 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-863-g00d5453 00:23:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:25 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:59 -!- Guest98648 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:58 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:56 -!- Sabaki has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:03 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:22 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:43 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:56 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:41 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:20 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:33 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:23:59 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:21 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:07 moin 01:41:57 -!- bmh_away has quit [Quit: bmh_away] 01:42:41 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:46 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:46 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 02:07:46 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:32 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:11 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 03:08:59 how about time^0.45 for tornado's radius? 03:09:01 https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdE1oRUx5UzhUNXRMX1ZRU1ppZGpkcFE&hl=en_US&gid=7 03:38:25 -!- jarpiain_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:31 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:22 -!- Zannick has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:39:32 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 03:40:08 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:44 This orc entry vault is awesome! 03:41:47 So many zombies! 03:43:12 -!- Hehfiel has quit [*.net *.split] 03:43:12 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 03:43:18 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:10 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:41:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:01 Though I don't approve of the Ghost Moths in Spider... 04:42:24 -!- jarpiain_ is now known as jarpiain 04:47:18 -!- bhaak is now known as stenno 04:47:26 -!- stenno is now known as bhaak 05:46:33 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:12 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:12 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:56:45 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:57:32 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:32 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:06:33 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:13 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:13 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:16:44 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:17:28 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:28:01 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:55 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:55 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:36:41 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:19 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:19 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:54:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:04:47 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:41 ghallberg: uh oh, so they were re-added? 07:11:41 ghallberg: ghost moths were returned to their branch end/Zot/Zig greatness, which is not that good for a Lair:1 portal vault 07:11:42 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:51 Well one killed me right before I posted that. 07:14:10 Thuoght it felt a bit unfair... :( 07:14:24 And that char was going well too. 07:15:01 @??greater naga 07:15:01 greater naga (13N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 61-100 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1677 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, teleport self. 07:15:03 @??ghost moth 07:15:03 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 50-90 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 1805(drain strength), 18, 1205(strong poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 3467. 07:15:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Client Quit] 07:15:38 over twice the XP, and appropriate deadliness 07:16:03 Well... I dunno anything about vaults, maybe I should drop a bugreport >.< 07:16:18 Boring beetles can apparently go through "unnaturally hard rock wall". Is that intentional? 07:16:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:59 ghallberg: please do, it'd be good to not forget that 07:17:27 RichardHawk: these are supposed to be undiggable 07:18:02 Well, somehow slimes managed to ruin the zotdef loot vaults and there are openings to them, with a boring beetle inside 07:18:44 speaking of things that will poison you to death well before they should 07:19:04 kobolds appearing with poisoned needles+blowguns on d:2 should probably be fixed 07:19:32 No worse than exploding darts. 07:19:39 worse 07:19:41 RichardHawk: the code seems to allow burrowing only through rock and translucent rock 07:19:55 RichardHawk: but I see that not all loot chambers there use permarock 07:20:59 RichardHawk: not only are poisoned needles more accurate than exploding darts, they have more damage-over-time damage potential, especially for a low level character. 2 needles and without a very lucky healing pot, they're dead 07:21:15 you can't use digging to get to them though, at most just move from one to another 07:21:28 plus even if you do kill the kobold, well, with exploding darts, the darts are now yours. with needles, you'll die in a few more turns. 07:21:43 If you can't dig to them, how'd they get inside? 07:22:07 Pacra: exploding darts have a 100% mulch rate 07:22:22 kilobyte: i meant the darts the kobold hadn't thrown yet. 07:22:31 RichardHawk: currently monsters can spawn there 07:23:15 kilobyte: Wow. Well, not complaining too much since I know it's a broken mode 07:23:27 Just currently trying to cheese a victory to the best of my ability 07:25:03 kilobyte: I know you guys have probably been over this thing with termcolors alot, but dark blue is much harder than dark grey to read on black. In my experience at least. 07:25:24 depends on your terminal 07:25:31 and its configuration 07:25:48 Zaba: Or maybe on your display I guess :( 07:26:05 that, too 07:26:06 I've tried a bunch of different blues now and none seem really good. 07:26:30 Then I have the problem of my monitors not looking the same with the same color settings >.< 07:26:40 But that's a whole other problem. 07:29:41 is there a simple way to iterate over a FixedVector in a random order? Or do I have to make a list of positions and randomise it myself? 07:30:47 most terminals allow redefining colours, but I doubt we should force these settings for the player 07:31:13 galehar: iterate: no, shuffle: yes although it's somewhat clumsy 07:32:38 using std::random_shuffle? 07:32:56 yeah 07:33:07 Ah well. Stupid colors. 07:33:13 it has some problems with the random generator though 07:33:49 ghallberg: you may set them up yourself. I've made a tool to do that a long time ago, too. 07:34:24 kilobyte: what problems? 07:35:18 kilobyte: I'm working on it but it's complicated. 07:35:29 Since the same colors are used fo rso many different programs. 07:35:57 In my case I can't relly find a good compromise that makes Dark blue text readable and that fits on irssis status bars. 07:36:00 it uses the generator built into C rather than Crawl's one (MT then that ASG thingy bmh made), and fails to handle re-seeding 07:39:07 for purposes other than the user interface (where reproducibility doesn't matter), it would be better to code shuffling ourselves 07:39:56 kilobyte: I don't think it'll be a problem for what I need. I'm just randomising the order in which skills are trained when xp is gained. It's just to avoid a slight favouring of first skills (getting trained before skill costs raise). I don't need "strong" random for that. 07:40:33 Why does crawl use its own RNG? 07:41:26 cesium: because the archaic one built into C is no good, and even Mersenne's Twister was broken 07:42:23 C doesn't specify an algorithm. Most implementations seem decent (e.g. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302467&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=97#post392201364 ) 07:42:26 you could predict all future rolls. With a copy of Crawl running locally, you were able to test a scenario and try another one if a roll went bad 07:46:13 cesium, delying on it to be decent would be like depending on implementation-defined behaviour 07:46:16 which generally isn't nice 07:46:20 relying* 07:46:41 plus, asg is really quite compact, so no harm done from quietly rolling our own 07:47:08 I see that seed_rng() does call srand(), with a comment that it's done for std::random_shuffle() 07:48:40 so it does provide reproducibility, but only on the same implementation (platform, compiler version) 07:50:29 kilobyte: there's already something similar to what I want to do in the source: exercise.cc:219 07:52:04 yeah, the template is used in 29 places already 07:53:02 reimplementing it using ASG should be trivial 07:58:07 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:50 kilobyte: Should I report the ghost moth as a bug some other category? 08:09:55 It's a bug report now... 08:12:53 Buffed Ghost Moths still spawn in Spider Den (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4214) by ghallberg 08:17:46 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19:05 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:48 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:10 03kilobyte * r6550f7752120 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Work around buggy type promotion in clang. 08:46:20 03kilobyte * r9911adebac94 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Anachro police: Chemistry -> Alchemy, Zoology -> Beasts. 08:46:21 03kilobyte * r9c247150efd2 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Fix handling of DS body mutations at positions other than first in the facet. 08:46:21 03kilobyte * r058394ca084f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h): Kludge beams to never hit the same person more than twice. 08:46:22 03kilobyte * r0d714ef464ef 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/zotdef/zotdef.des mon-place.cc): Don't spawn ZotDef monsters and royal jelly offshots in the loot chambers. 08:47:45 That was fast! 08:56:04 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:08 A randart buckler that is listed as the +3 buckler "Ciam" (worn) {rPois} adds nothing to ac (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4215) by karris 08:58:41 That's not a bug right? 08:58:52 don't see why it would be 08:58:52 nope 08:59:08 kilobyte: you think we should trash manual with the new skill training? 09:07:15 the only thing they would be useful for is getting the first level of a skill 09:10:27 How do you get the first level in the new system? 09:12:32 you just exercise the skill, and you'll eventually gain it. 09:13:19 each exercise is saved. The more you have, the more likely the skills is to be trained. Each time it is, the exercise counter is decremented. 09:14:17 And then the training stops when you hit level 1 unless you manually select that skill to be trained? 09:15:46 well it depends. In automatic mode, if you still have the exercises in the counter when you reach level 1, they will be randomly inserted into the exercise queue. In manual mode, it will be enable by default and will train like others until you disable it. 09:17:13 kilobyte: I don't think I can use std::random_shuffle. I ended up using a map there and they can't be shuffled. But they are not really random either. 09:17:43 or I have to use a vector AND a map 09:18:00 you need to copy them anyway 09:18:21 copy what? 09:18:38 the data, random_shuffle overwrites the original 09:21:38 galehar: The system does seem well thought out! Getting rid of the exp pool is the best change I've seen since I started playing. 09:23:05 well, we'll see if it's that good when implementation is finished. 09:23:11 (which should be soon) 09:25:59 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:43 paplaukes (L18 MiMo) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'misc.cc' at line 1099 failed. (Shoals:5) 09:54:45 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:40 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:18 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:02:40 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:31 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:13:31 Casting teleport and using Cheibriados ability Step from time crashes the game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4216) by paplaukes 10:25:09 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:37 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:38 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:07 03dolorous * rf80bda6c44d2 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc: Display a different message when recasting Shroud of Golubria. 11:28:17 03dolorous * rcee5e4e9dbb0 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Add formatting fixes. 11:40:40 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:19 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:37 ugh 11:52:41 i swear b0rsuk can't read or something 11:53:19 probably the worst feedback i've ever received about a proposal 11:58:16 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:17 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 11:58:17 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:38 Eronarn: which one? 12:15:09 Sometimes people don't read what's written but only what they expect. Happens to most of us (although b0rsuk has perfected this art, I agree.) 12:16:31 dpeg, I'm not sure about restricting bayou to a certain layout 12:17:18 because, well, some of the (larger) vaults would likely either fail to place or veto the level on certain layouts, but I don't think it'd look too ugly if they succeed in placing 12:17:56 Zaba: ok! 12:17:59 thanks 12:18:07 03dolorous * r5982a6b0bee8 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Remove unneeded blank line. 12:18:08 03dolorous * re51c6dc2c74f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (colour.cc colour.h dat/des/branches/crypt.des): Remove duplicate element color by subsuming ETC_NECRO into ETC_DEATH. 12:18:08 03dolorous * re8375680fcf3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Rename element color ETC_GILA to ETC_FLASH. 12:18:27 dpeg, and too many layouts come up with too different results all the time anyway 12:19:46 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:52 dpeg: about Alchemy 12:31:19 !tell kilobyte Rune milestones and notes seem messed up currently... I just picked up a rune without getting the milestone, and with the note "Identified a silver rune of Zot" instead of the normal one. I imagine it is relevant that the rune was under another item when I picked it up. 12:31:20 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 12:39:39 !tell kilobyte Tornado just moved a mummy onto the same square as a statue... also, is the monster levitation actually supposed to end before the tornado ends? 12:39:39 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 12:48:39 -!- monqy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:50 -!- monqy has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:48:57 -!- monqy_ is now known as monqy 12:51:19 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:45 -!- Ero_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:09 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:13 -!- Eronarn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:14 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:08 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:57 Is there any harm in haphazardly writing MMT_VAULT to the level mask? 12:56:07 Bad vault placement: Fedhas altar with the centaur in Slime (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4217) by absolutego 12:57:02 Zaba: do you know (^bmh)? 12:57:13 bmh, depends on the context 12:57:32 bmh, just make sure you're doing it before vaults get placed 12:57:39 otherwise it's pretty pointless 12:57:56 Zaba: I'm using it for banishing the dungeon along with the player 12:58:18 -!- Ero_ is now known as Eronarn 12:58:25 the abyss uses the vault mask so that vaults aren't partially overwritten by morphs 12:59:13 its purpose is to prevent parts of the level by being overwritten by vaults and level layouts that know how to respect it 12:59:52 if that's what you want, then just use it 13:00:54 hmm, how do people feel about this: transmutation is for temporary/reversible changes, alchemy is for permanent/costly ones 13:03:00 Eronarn: not sure we can come up with enough interesting spells with permanent or high cost 13:03:38 how about semi-permanent costs? pay X MP for some effect, get the MP back when it terminates 13:04:00 i don't mean mechanical permanent cost, i'm talking more thematic 13:04:08 like: once you ignite poison, the poison is burned up 13:04:41 whereas afaik all current tmut spells are temporary changes (even if like dig they cause permanent effects) 13:05:07 If a poisonous monster is in a translucent permarock cage, can you ignite poison it to death? 13:05:12 and if you create a poison and poison someone, that poison lasts until their system cleans it; they don't become un-poisoned once the spell wears off 13:05:26 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:13 actual permanent costs should remain a nec thing, other than item (evaporate)/terrain (dig) costs, but i think it could be a good way to explain to people how the two schools are different 13:06:41 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:09 Eronarn: ok 13:08:17 surely worth a thought 13:08:32 03dolorous * r087164526284 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Poison Weapon works on blunt weapons as of 1954c4d; remove last check for that. 13:08:49 have runes been goldified? 13:08:57 yes 13:09:01 wonderful 13:12:27 03dolorous * rc064d69bc824 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Remove unused variable. 13:12:28 03dolorous * r491cf12233b0 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Simplify polearms/dragon slaying branding check. 13:16:01 You can destroy the orb of zot? 13:16:10 bmh: throw in lava 13:16:23 has anyone ever done that unintentionally? 13:18:09 I hope not :) 13:18:32 I take it it won’t be regenerated? 13:18:51 nope 13:18:57 gg 13:19:17 it would be pretty hard to do accidentally :P 13:19:38 one could think about solutions for this (e.g. the orb could swim on lava) but it is not worth the trouble at this point 13:32:57 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:21 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:27 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:51 Bonsoir! 13:36:14 wait, what? you have french developer? 13:36:34 I am 13:36:38 Moin 13:36:55 so far, a bad imitation of a french person :) 13:37:10 bhaak: Le Crawl est immortelle. 13:37:17 sweet. vault decay sort of works 13:37:27 bhaak: why? 13:37:29 I wonder who tought every "moin" over here. Must've been Napkin :) 13:37:35 unfortunately, they don't rot, but they kind of explode out of existence 13:37:39 *everyone 13:37:49 galehar: 3 words said, none french ;-) 13:37:56 ;) 13:38:06 huh, a Nap King 13:38:09 the Moin will get all of you 13:38:27 03dolorous * r046f2b24e693 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Remove unneeded spaces. 13:38:57 oh right. most french are barely know any foreign language. 13:39:08 ... 13:39:10 ah, that's much better 13:39:50 galehar: Outside of the restaurants, the ones in Paris pretend not to know any foreign language. 13:40:33 well, food is different. It's impossible to properly speak about food in english. 13:40:53 or with your mouth still full ;) 13:41:24 "Chef, bring on the frogs soaked in Roquefort. And a coke!" 13:41:46 a coke? We don't serve that here. 13:42:02 galehar: Unfortunately, I've been to France :) 13:42:26 didn't like it? 13:42:38 succumbing to the devil like everyone else, just a little slower, and with more style 13:43:18 bhaak: you cannot stay at all the places you like... and the French do try to make it hard for non-French speakers (moreso than the Japanese or Germans, say) 13:47:03 our french are really happy when you try to speak french even if you know only a few words :) 13:47:29 but they live in a country where the majority speaks something worse than German :-) 13:47:36 All the Scottish folks I've met are apologetic about their accents. It's baffling. It's easier to understand most people from Glasgow than those from Sussex 13:48:48 bmh: yes, I noticed something similar... easier to understand the Irish (speaking English, not Gael :) than those Londoners 13:49:34 dpeg: Talking to Londoners on the phone is painful. 13:54:29 galehar: don't be angry... l'etat, c'est toi 13:54:55 dpeg: How many languages do you know? 13:55:16 dpeg: lua and vault syntax don't count 13:55:38 bmh: only two. I had the chance to learn Russian and French at school (four years each), but I didn't even try. 13:56:05 ah, I figured you'd be fluent in Russian given the mathematician thing. 13:56:33 They should've told me that I could read Grothendieck if I pay attention in French class. Fuck Foucault, Dumas and Sartre... but Grothendieck and Serre :( 13:57:04 dpeg: what about chinese? Didn't your learn some with your go teacher? 13:57:50 How often should the abyss discontinously jump? 13:57:53 galehar: European Go is influenced mostly by the Japanese. And you only pick up a few words but nothing more (as if you'd take Judo or Karate) 13:58:04 ...But Foucault ;.; 13:58:13 Morphs are set at 1 turn in 10, vault destruction is 1 in 300, jumps are 1 in 300 13:58:23 and a German introduced Go to europe 13:58:26 rax_: you're a literature major, I'm a mathematician :) Good thing the French have something for everyone! 13:58:42 bhaak: this is true, but it didn't really catch on back then 13:59:10 speaking of the French, I have a bottle of bordeaux in the kitchen. 13:59:46 dpeg: has it now? i've the impression that is was rather well received (besides the usual stuff like "how interesting can it be if you only have one stone vs. all the chess pieces" and stuff) 14:01:58 bhaak: I thought you're talking about the time of Kernel (sp?) and Lasker. 14:04:40 dpeg: before those there was oskar korschelt 14:05:36 dpeg: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Korschelt 14:05:45 ah, Korschelt 14:05:53 I even the book by him. 14:06:22 dpeg: Fair. :) 14:07:18 what, rax is a literature major? 14:07:38 rax, I thought you were a gender studies major 14:07:38 i always thought you were a compsci. 14:07:50 vOv 14:07:58 rax has a dozen degrees! 14:10:52 dpeg: You should apply your research to crawl :-) 14:11:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:57 bmh: there is zero intersection between the two 14:12:28 I have an MA in English and am working toward a PhD in gender studies. I have a BS in "Humanistic Studies" from MIT. So, kind of all of those (my MIT degree includes some compsci courses) 14:13:03 dpeg: i bet she could write some good flavor text! 14:13:14 rax_: giant spores have rhizomes now, you know 14:13:27 Eronarn: <33333333333333333333333 14:15:07 I can’t help reading BS as BS. 14:15:24 ion: Where I'm from, we write ScB 14:16:32 Americans and their fixation on abbreviations :) In my subject, there is a concept called "matrix factorisation", suitably abbreviated MF -- and they always cringe :) 14:16:50 hah 14:18:00 in wizmode can I controlled tele in the abyss? 14:23:18 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:23:33 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:12 -!- Giomancer has left ##crawl-dev 14:27:49 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:40 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:27 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:53 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:30 where can I get player save files on CDO? So I can conveniently test save compatibility with real saves. 14:55:39 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:24 serialization aside, I'm happy with the abyss 15:07:18 yay 15:07:32 * dpeg hands bmh an abyssical coke. 15:13:37 ...can someone else write serialization? :-D 15:15:14 probably not 15:15:59 That is an effective answer. 15:25:53 bmh: what about map rot? 15:26:02 still haven't looked at it 16:01:01 -!- cesium has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:39 galehar: is it ok with you if I leave the level map disabled, even if I'm easing up rot? 16:10:55 I don't have a good solution for coping with the abyss being infinitely large and the map shifting 16:11:45 yeah, let's try something like that 16:12:08 wouldn't that give large terminals/viewports an advantage? 16:12:13 or is it negligible 16:12:44 I think a good map rot algorithm would be: each turn, each mapped cell out of LOS has a chance of rotting. Chance depend on distance to the player. 16:12:59 isn't that how labs work right now 16:13:15 I don't think so 16:13:21 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:13:30 galehar: I was going to do this: As the abyss morphs, every square out of LOS that shifts gets rotted 16:13:33 Eronarn, not exactly. I think map rot in labs happen every 20 turns, like hell effects and a bunch of other stuff. 16:13:41 with labs I it's usually forgetting a bunch of it at a time, and not triggering every turn--yeah like that 16:13:41 And for every square that rots, rot a second square 16:13:55 (so the player can't look at the rot and determine what has changed) 16:14:03 we really need to fix that "every 20 turns" junk, incidentally 16:14:11 elliptic: true. 16:15:10 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away 16:15:17 bmh: I'm not sure about linking map rotting with morphing. 16:17:34 IMO, just having a chance depending on distance to player for each out of LOS mapped cell is simple and efficient. 16:18:02 would make area close by rot very little, and far away very fast. 16:19:15 elliptic: how about time^0.45 for tornado's radius? 16:19:17 https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdE1oRUx5UzhUNXRMX1ZRU1ppZGpkcFE&hl=en_US&gid=7 16:19:43 galehar: what is wrong with something like the current growth? 16:20:24 I tried it out a little bit earlier and it seemed reasonable enough, though I'm not sure how much I like the longer duration and the fact that you can extend the duration by recasting is just wrong 16:21:18 exactly. I'd like to revert the duration extension. But I feel like a linear growth isn't good. 16:21:29 what's wrong with the linear growth? 16:21:49 Hum. Is Firefox 5 not supported by webtiles yet? 16:22:40 well, enemies at long range take very little damage, by the time the radius get there, the spell is almost over. 16:23:24 I don't see this as a problem :) 16:23:31 RichardHawk: it works, you need the websockets override. 16:23:35 that seems fine, just encourages you to get close, yeah 16:23:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 16:23:50 MarvinPA: now we just need a tloc/earth gravity spell 16:23:55 for shattergravitynado 16:23:56 I have the override at false, like the page tells me to 16:24:44 hii 16:25:51 well, I'm not sure, but I think a t^0.x is worth considering. it might be easier to balance than just linear. Or not. 16:29:11 galehar likes roots :) 16:30:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:39 I wouldn't mind a square root but any formula with a 0.45 in an exponent just makes me cringe, sorry :) 16:30:58 why? 16:31:20 I started with 0.5 and saw that it needed to be adjusted down 16:31:26 it is a square rootlet 16:31:37 because t^(0.45) has no decent interpretation 16:31:48 t^0.5 means area increases linearly 16:31:48 we can use 0.42 instead :) 16:32:00 t means radius increases linearly 16:32:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:08 or maybe t^0.5/k 16:32:23 these are both formulas that can be described in words in a very simple way 16:32:32 t^(0.45) is just some random function 16:32:37 ok 16:33:22 elliptic has a point but sometimes you have to use parameters... no matter whether it is At^2 16:33:32 +Bt, or t^A, it may look ugly 16:34:13 linearity with slope 1 (or 0.1, or whatever) has the extra advantage that players can actually see the increase each turn if they are doing normal-speed actions 16:35:25 normal-speed actions are not that frequent when you can cast tornado 16:35:40 this is true, since you are probably hasted 16:36:12 but still people can understand the growth better if it is linear, I think 16:37:32 No one knows what could cause the webtiles issue? The config is as the error page says it should be. Tried asking on the other channel too. 16:38:00 well, if you think the spell can be balanced with a linear growth, that's fine. 16:38:56 I don't remember what values kilobyte used, but it can be a bit faster. If it ends up at radius 6 for the last turn, that's fine too. 16:39:35 we still have a ton of parameters to tweak with linear growth (slope, starting radius, max radius, overall duration, damage, AC deduction) 16:40:28 so I'm not really worried about not having enough flexibility :) 16:40:45 We need someone who feels responsible for tiles. What about looking through the list of players who sent in tiles, and ask the most prolific ones with good output? 16:41:21 dpeg: ask them what? To commit them? 16:41:23 dpeg: to do what? 16:41:41 galehar: yes, to evaluate and commit. To do what Enne and jpeg did. 16:41:58 elliptic: I think it'd be better thematically (and also for gameplay) if you could not re-cast. One tornado after the other, not two on top of each other. 16:42:00 probably better to just find someone we agree has decent taste / judgment 16:42:03 dpeg: yes 16:42:15 committing stuff is a pain if you don't already know how to use git 16:42:22 Eronarn: it is compulsory that such a person has experience with drawing/modifying tiles. 16:42:33 elliptic: well, about starting radius, what I like about the t^0.5, is it can start at radius 0, quickly ramp up and end up with something usable. 16:42:45 Eronarn: everyone can pick up a bit of git -- even I, with a lof of help from my friends. 16:43:40 galehar: yeah, I do see the attraction of t^0.5 16:44:02 personally i'd rather see prolific, good tiles artists continuing to make tiles and someone else who is reliable - whether or not they're an artist themselves - do the screening 16:44:18 Eronarn: okay, but I disagree. 16:45:40 galehar: I think we have no active tiles dev :( 16:46:01 dpeg: i don't think we do either :( 16:46:13 hence my call 16:46:20 dpeg: yes :( 16:46:57 I could ask Enne and jpeg if they can nominate someone? 16:47:32 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:46 elliptic: something like (3/4) * t^0.5 or (4/5) * t^0.5 seems to give decent result. 16:48:12 Hi kilobyte 16:48:52 galehar: I'll think about it and test it more, have to go now though 16:49:06 Btw: did someone change Trog's gifting to give mor A-M or was that just a fluke in my last game? 16:49:09 elliptic: ok, thanks :) 16:49:14 ...well that settled it 16:49:40 The error page for webtiles tells you to have the security override setting at false, when it actually needs to be true. 16:51:46 so, where can I get user save files to test save compat? 16:51:53 kilobyte? 16:54:30 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:26 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:59:02 done. 16:59:09 bye bye victory dancing. 16:59:13 OMG YAY <3 17:00:29 03galehar * rdbd756eb9cdd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): Some simplification. 17:00:29 03galehar * r65f6a8d36387 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): Remove the XP pool from the skill menu. 17:00:29 03galehar * r49f5b3ea6cab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile.obj skill_menu.cc skill_menu.h skills2.cc skills2.h): Move the skill menu into its own file. 17:00:29 03galehar * r55d5b58761fe 10/crawl-ref/source/ (menu.h skill_menu.cc skill_menu.h skills2.cc skills2.h): New skill menu switches. 17:00:30 03galehar * r029cdfee66af 10/crawl-ref/source/ (19 files): New skill training system. 17:00:45 Dammit I was gonna sleep, no wI have to test this! 17:01:22 woohoo 17:01:48 yay 17:01:51 * due dances with dpeg 17:01:53 finaaally! 17:01:56 did we do anything with draining yet, though? 17:02:23 Eronarn: not yet. But I like your idea a lot. 17:02:59 I'm writting a c-r-d mail with all the stuff that needs to be addressed. Draining is a part of it. 17:03:24 what else... experience cards, potions of experience, sage...? 17:04:32 manuals 17:06:22 not much to do with experience card and potion. Just need to call train_skills after increasing the pool 17:06:43 galehar: awesome 17:06:46 sage needs a special treatment 17:06:48 my suggestion for manuals a long while back when we were considering redoing them was for them to provide a temporary skill boost, which means more opportunity to be able to train that skill, but also some reason to use them tactically 17:07:44 Well, now you don't need opportunities to train 17:08:07 Ash reskilling is also somewhat less valuable 17:10:55 how big are tiles? 17:11:16 bmh_away: 32x32 I think? Never seen one properly :) 17:11:26 yes 17:11:37 dpeg: I took a photo of an awesome looking bug on my desk. I think I can turn it into a tile... 17:12:18 bmh_away: sounds creepy :) 17:17:03 galehar: Quick FR/Idea, show all skills should be remembered when you close the skill screen? 17:17:27 why? 17:17:40 what's the point of showing them all, all the time? 17:17:46 Cause I keep wanting to check how far I've gotten :P 17:18:00 With the ones I don't know 17:18:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:18:26 the % isn't the progress. 17:18:30 Meh, just something that annoyed me a bit now :) 17:18:32 Ok... 17:18:41 It's the % of incoming XP which goes to that skill. 17:19:17 progress of unknown skills toward 1 is still not shown. 17:19:29 Ok. 17:20:16 There seems to be something fishy going on, I can't toggle any of them on or off anymore? 17:20:28 Or did I miss something else as well= 17:20:52 ghallberg: there is certainly plenty of bugs. 17:20:58 Ok, cool. 17:21:16 I'm too tired to try and reproduce this now. Gonna burn through this KoBe and die before I sleep. 17:21:18 so, how are your switches? 17:21:24 ok 17:21:37 let me know if it happens again 17:21:39 Well, everything turned off at some point... 17:21:54 Now I got finished with SB lvl 1 and I can toggle stuff again. 17:22:49 Oh well, that went wuick. 17:22:58 Splatted by an ogre on D:4. 17:23:03 Off to bed :) 17:23:03 so happened after you've learned a new skill? 17:23:30 When I started I could toggle them (I switched of M&F and played with the others) 17:23:43 Then at some point after I found a dagger They stopped responding. 17:23:56 Then after I got my first point in SB they worked again. 17:24:06 I'm not certain they're related but it seems reasonable. 17:24:09 Gonna try one more 17:26:58 Can't seem to reproduce at all. 17:27:45 -!- ion_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:12 -!- Sabaki_|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:38 -!- ion has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:45 -!- ion_ is now known as ion 17:30:43 -!- Sabaki has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:28 03galehar * r2fb1f9a69d7d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc potion.cc): Call train_skill after potion of experience and experience card. 17:42:38 03galehar * r9bf4ddf3838f 10/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc: Don't train level 0 skills more than they have been exercised. 17:43:50 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:39 learning new skills seems difficult 17:51:10 for some reason I learned conjuration despite attempting to learn charm/enchantments by casting repel missiles a few times and then killing things 17:52:00 oh nevermind 17:52:07 turning everything else off solved that :P 17:52:51 this definitely seems to make the game much easier 17:52:55 at first glance 17:59:11 well, it might compensate the increased cost of magic skills. 17:59:49 syllogism: you learned conjuration without casting a single conj spell? 18:00:39 I think so yes, I only had freeze and repel missiles memorized 18:01:22 well, that sounds like a bug. (not that I'm surprised). 18:02:27 where is maprot handled? 18:06:56 bmh_away: sorry, no idea 18:07:53 well, disabling rot in the Abyss was easy enough. 18:08:05 is it ok if I unify abyss and labs rot? 18:08:21 totally 18:08:27 especially if you improve it :) 18:09:01 I'll take a stab at it during lunch. 18:09:18 I'll use your idea of decay following a geometric distribution based on distance from the player 18:09:23 * bmh_away is away for real 18:29:32 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:28 03galehar * r277a63f51e7a 10/crawl-ref/source/skill_menu.cc: Prevent disabling the last skill enabled. 18:53:04 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:49 is manual skil training going to make 0.9? 19:14:59 -!- Sabaki_|2 is now known as Sabaki 19:17:11 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:08 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:51 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:47:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:00 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:01 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:23 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:30 03kilobyte * r06bb5b5c8199 10/crawl-ref/source/ (47 files in 2 dirs): cppcheck: fix inefficient checking for emptiness. 20:18:31 03kilobyte * re4066ccd619b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files): cppcheck: use ++p not p++ for complex types (like iterators). 20:18:31 03kilobyte * r61edc30a67b1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): cppcheck: pass const strings by reference. Alloc + copy less. 20:18:32 03kilobyte * reb03baac873c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): Make cppcheck a bit happier. 20:18:32 03kilobyte * r3ba445871afb 10/crawl-ref/source/package.cc: Fix zlib compression done in chunks of only 4 bytes. 20:18:32 03kilobyte * r52acb806cc85 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files): cppcheck: reduce scope of some variables. 20:18:32 03kilobyte * rca135676a4b0 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Remove a no-op if clause. 20:18:43 03kilobyte * rc5c349e14141 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Whitespace fixes. 20:28:40 kilobyte: so, for radius iterator, say, the better technique is ++r rather than r++? 21:08:33 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:03 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:33:58 using "find" ability with keyword "wand" will not find "wand of fireball" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4218) by sunspire 21:42:30 03dolorous * rafca20d3c2eb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Fix Mantis 4217: Limit fedhas_bush_and_centaur_altar to depth D:3-27, not 3:27. 22:30:06 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:40:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:56:25 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:14 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:00 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:20 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 23:45:32 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:02 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev