00:00:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-712-g1954c4d (32) 00:00:36 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:22 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-712-g1954c4d 00:35:49 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:10 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:15 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:07 03elliptic * r05c65e915577 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Make mutagenic corpses generate one-third as often. 01:29:13 yay 01:41:03 moin 02:35:45 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:01:51 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:10:42 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:41 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:25:12 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:22 moin moin 03:25:46 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 03:33:45 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:06 03MarvinPA * r55ec889e0e75 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/swamp.des: Don't spawn the Lernaean Hydra encased in rock in swamp_old_school 04:03:10 st_: actually, this works only for air elementals. Hostile fish are visible when you're next to them, non-hostile don't block reaching. 04:10:06 unless you mean being targetted directly, but reaching always worked like this... it was intentionally exempt when the ability to hit submerged stuff was changed 04:10:16 whether that exemption makes sense is another story 04:15:17 -!- b0rsuk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:01 kilobyte: you can hit hostile fish who are submerged two squares away 04:38:54 yeah, but as I just said, I did not change that, and I remember it being left intentionally 04:39:33 to "leave spear fishing to reaching" 04:40:00 yeah, I'm not blaming you for it :) 04:41:14 of course I'm not arguing that it needs to be kept, just trying to recall the reasoning 04:55:30 menu.o:menu.cc:function vtable for MenuEntry: warning: relocation refers to discarded section 04:55:49 (from gcc-trunk) 05:12:34 Nerf melded slime creatures (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4172) by Someone-else 05:14:15 that doesn't look like a bug report to me! 05:19:13 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:00 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:26:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:15 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:02:27 hi 06:02:35 kilobyte: the webtiles branch at https://gitorious.org/~fdiebold/crawl/fdiebolds-crawl 07:08:36 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 07:08:56 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:14 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:13 edlothiol: it's ready to be merged? 07:28:18 !tell elliptic do you think I should revert d646e2b4 and instead bring back minimum cost of 1? 07:28:19 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 07:29:48 galehar: basically, yes - there's always more to be done, but if you want it in 0.9, I think it could be merged 07:30:07 good 07:30:07 though there's still a problem in the makefile I hope a dev can solve 07:30:57 the first webtiles compile from a clean directory will fail, but the second will then work 07:31:20 actually, not compile, but the generation of a js file 07:32:05 not bad enough to prevent merging. We'll look into it anyway. 07:37:00 about tornado, instead of a standard cooldown, I had another idea. Elliptic suggested that explanation could be "the air currents are still out of control from the previous tornado". 07:37:04 also, tilesdl.h is kind of littered with #ifdefs, since I didn't want to affect the normal tiles build too much, but this could be done better 07:38:03 edlothiol: ok. Maybe some rewritting will be needed for merging. 07:39:33 so maybe tornado could left "turbulences" where it was active, and you can't cast it again if you're in it. And if you move to the edge of turbulence, you can cast but the turbulences are unaffected and impared damage, just like walls. 07:40:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:30 So you can spam it only if you keep moving forward. The spell already encourage reckless play by moving out in the open. It would make it worse. 07:47:07 well, the main problem with it is that you can play recklessly and still just kill everything in sight :P 07:47:25 but that could work if the damage is reduced a little more as well, which i think is a good idea anyway 07:51:39 that d:8 orc knight/warrior reaching bailey is no teleport controlled :\ 07:54:53 -!- st_ has quit [] 07:56:35 MarvinPA: of course, damage reduction is still needed. 07:57:03 and I still don't understand why it couldn't be balanced as pure air... 08:11:59 !tell kilobyte yes, the tornado chart doesn't handle AC correctly. It simply calculates average damage and reduce it by AC/2. It doesn't handle properly all the times the AC roll is over the damage. Not sure how to do it in a spreadsheet. 08:12:00 galehar: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 08:13:37 galehar: max(dam-AC, 0) 08:14:32 well, that's what I'm using. max(dam - AC/2, 0) to be more precise. It's still wrong. 08:14:59 if AC is over twice the damage, it results in an average damage of 0. Which is wrong. 08:20:32 you could maybe do weightings? like 10% AC * .1, 10% AC * .2, etc. 08:21:08 since the AC roll is just a flat distribution... i'm not sure if you can macro that rather than doing it manually 08:23:31 but the damage roll isn't flat. In the case of tornado, it's 6d(pow)/15. I just calculated average damage and deduced AC/2. 08:28:31 if you want actual numbers it would probably be fastest to just run a simulation 08:34:39 indeed. 08:34:45 I probably won't bother 08:35:06 average damage - AC/2 is a good enough approximation for balancing spells. 08:35:11 anyway, have to go 08:35:19 -!- galehar has quit [] 09:16:23 03zaba * r320ca4eb5d6a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-labyrinth.cc dgn-labyrinth.h dungeon.cc makefile.obj): Split the labyrinth level builder into dgn-labyrinth.cc. 09:16:33 03zaba * rd0be972f8a2a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Split builder_basic, plan_4, _build_rooms and bigger_room into dgn-layouts.cc. 09:16:34 03zaba * rcb5f06740d25 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Rename plan_4 to chaotic_city, other layout functions to dgn_build_*_level. 09:18:39 Zaba: <3 09:18:39 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:19:21 that code is a maddening mess, but now it's at least in a file of its own... 09:19:26 I never got around to implementing layout_delve, forest builder or a couple of other ideas I have, but I wondered whether to do that in the massive file. 09:19:31 yeah 09:19:45 kilobyte, if they are large, just do them in separate dgn-$builder files 09:19:56 or even if they are small 09:20:03 (dgn-{swamp,shoals} are an example) 09:20:27 dgn-layouts.cc ones just happen to share some ugly helper functions 09:22:00 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:54 I wonder, why isn't lab a portal vault? 09:24:17 not sure, but Ziggurat being a portal vault causes much woe 09:24:28 but lab isn't multi-level 09:24:46 yeah... still has its own builder and rules, though 09:25:03 ie, mostly like a separate branch 09:47:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:54:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:02 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:32 Milgwyn the Skirmisher (L3 KeCK) (D:2) 10:52:04 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:19 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:32 03kilobyte * rf02820dc3cbc 10/crawl-ref/source/evoke.cc: Submerged monsters shouldn't affect reaching. 11:20:32 03kilobyte * re2b9add9c27a 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Slightly simplify an indentation level away. 11:20:33 03kilobyte * rd5ff1ff3b859 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Shift Okawaru piety (and gift) model to piety for Ash monster tiers. 11:20:43 03kilobyte * r58327f43de1f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (items.cc religion.cc): Fix big piety gains working differently from multiple small ones. 11:20:43 03kilobyte * r92c9c079dd12 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Instead of using new Oka piety, just log it. 11:25:12 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-722-g92c9c07 (32) 11:50:42 !tell galehar But if d646e2b4 is reverted, won't order of training skills matter again? that is, it will be more efficient to train spellcasting skills at the beginning of the game? 11:50:42 elliptic: OK, I'll let galehar know. 11:52:01 hrm 11:52:07 for some reason, plan_4/chaotic_city is really biased 11:53:53 elliptic: i don't know if this is intentional but shroud doesn't handle stuff like freezing branded attacks 11:54:41 oh god 11:56:34 eronarn: you mean that it is stronger than normal against them because it only looks at the pre-brand damage? that was intentional 11:57:17 I think the monster this is most relevant for is ice beasts? 11:57:57 oh, and sky beasts 11:58:54 eronarn: you mentioned that shroud seemed very good for the first few dlvls... how few, and which char was this? 12:02:17 oh holy shit 12:02:54 I might be lacking caffeine or something, or maybe I've just discovered two very curious bugs in the dungeon builder 12:03:56 or maybe one and a half 12:03:59 but I'm yet to figure out the half 12:05:53 elliptic: i meant that it doesn't do anything to secondary damage which is kind of weird if you get hit by an ice beast since it doesn't do physical but does do cold damage 12:07:54 eronarn: uh, what do you mean? ice beasts do physical damage 12:08:37 and that damage amount is used when deciding whether to deflect the full attack (physical + ice damage) 12:12:00 elliptic: i thought it either fully deflected it, or broke? 12:12:52 i got hit by an ice beast, took damage, and shroud stayed up 12:13:30 no, only 2/3 of hits are processed by shroud 12:13:40 1/3 of hits do damage as normal and don't affect shroud 12:15:02 so what you describe had nothing to do with the monster being an ice beast 12:16:16 ah hah, okay 12:39:41 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:28 oh, this is with an OpWz btw 12:41:33 i'm on d7 now and it's still quite useful 12:42:23 -!- gnsh has quit [] 12:43:07 ...hmm, do octopodes really have throats 12:43:19 or spiders, for that matter 12:47:41 triggering ballistos doesn't get you XP for their kills? 12:48:29 03zaba * r2e267507aa72 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Make chaotic_city a little more chaotic. 12:48:38 03zaba * r2ffcdb9acbd6 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Fix up some coordinate offsets to account for how count_features_in_box works. 12:52:17 average Vaults levels might look pretty different now 12:55:52 elliptic: two more things: 1) i'd replace 'flickers' with 'begins to fray', it feels more shroud-y 2) the message for it breaking should occur after the hit that breaks ti 12:57:38 1) sounds good 2) I wasn't sure about that... technically it does break very slightly before the blow hits you, but maybe it would feel more natural to have the message afterwards anyway? 12:59:09 i think so; the shield breaking is more like a side effect of the hit 12:59:43 Eronarn: do you think the message for the shroud ending naturally (currently "Your shroud disappears.") should be changed also? maybe "unravels"? 13:00:01 i was thinking unravels as the one for it starting to time out 13:00:09 oh wait 13:00:14 yes, i see what you mean 13:00:17 that would be a good idea 13:00:35 the forcibly broken message could be "is torn to shreds", if it's not already 13:03:08 I'm a little unsure about all these messages though 13:03:29 because I don't want to give people the false impression that the shroud is weaker at low duration (it isn't) 13:03:56 "frays at the edges?" i'm not sure this is any different from "flickers", though 13:04:14 since that could imply it's not there to intercept attacks as often 13:04:17 the flavour of the spell is more that the shroud is prone to collapsing suddenly 13:05:18 right, with "flickers" and "disappears" I was trying to distinguish from the shroud actually collapsing 13:05:38 since those messages just mean that you are going to need to expend more energy to keep the shroud up 13:07:04 I'm currently reading messages for other spells... rMsl uses "Your repel missiles spell is about to expire..." 13:07:26 which is rather lacking in flavour but does get to the point :P 13:07:34 a message like that might be better then, yeah 13:08:06 ozo's armour uses "Your icy armour starts to melt." 13:08:14 which I guess is more like what you are suggesting 13:08:26 one could argue that is somewhat misleading, too 13:08:35 but then again, it's not too misleading, and it is a lot more flavorful 13:08:47 yes 13:08:56 also, i think no spell currently gets weaker proportional to duration, right? 13:09:09 well, silence/leda's 13:09:11 but i'm thinking more buffs 13:09:39 confusing touch sort of does 13:09:46 also: i'm on D10 on my Op now, i just fought a hippogriff with shroud up and it intercepted like 4 attacks without breaking 13:10:15 sure, it has high variance 13:10:51 eronarn: I did spend a day or two testing shroud with it getting weaker proportional to duration, and it didn't play very well 13:11:08 i think it may just be a bit too strong overall right now for a L2 spell, it seems to play OK other than being generally very good 13:12:15 effectively casting shroud gives you an average of 10 HP extra while increasing variability of monster damage a lot 13:12:54 how does it scale with power? 13:12:59 basically it isn't very reliable... some battles it will help a lot more than others 13:13:00 it doesn't 13:13:17 hmm, i think that's bad, should give it scaling and just a low power cap :P 13:13:25 we already have too many non-scaling buffs 13:13:38 it was intentional that it doesn't scale 13:13:54 the problem is that we have non-scaling buffs which stay good all game 13:13:58 rMsl, say 13:14:04 the effects of shroud don't scale 13:14:51 @??hippogriff 13:14:51 hippogriff (07H) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-54 | AC/EV: 2/7 | Damage: 10, 8, 8 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 184. 13:15:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:48 I'll note that the 4 attacks you prevented from the hippogriff might have done little or no damage, by the way 13:15:49 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:01 nah, i'm an Op :P 13:16:33 random2(9)-random2(3) still might be pretty low 13:16:53 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:22 anyway, thanks for the feedback... I'm not too concerned if shroud is strong early on so long as it (a) becomes significantly weaker as you progress and (b) it isn't so good that Cr and Wr never want to use other spells 13:20:49 well, i can't imagine ever not using it early on 13:20:57 i don't know how long i'd end up using it for though 13:56:19 03elliptic * r5435726b989a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc main.cc): A few Shroud of Golubria text changes. 13:57:13 add lightning charge :( 14:02:14 lightning charge sounds like a lot of work for a spell that probably wouldn't be very good early game 14:02:39 it would be decent for *taur packs maybe 14:02:48 but those are pretty late 14:05:08 i think it'd be quite good for repositioning 14:07:00 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 14:42:34 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:47:17 Shapeshifters stay invisible when they leave an invisible form. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4173) by elliptic 14:56:07 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:44 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:25 Anyone heard of Dungeons of Dredmor yet? 15:19:30 vampire bats don't have a description 15:25:00 hihi, desktop dungeons is going commercial? :D 15:27:47 Napkin: it's been planning to all along 15:27:52 hmm, you can only have heard of it, as it isn't released yet? 15:28:34 nah, i remember his first post where the guy was thinking to release the source code, ais523 15:28:41 yeah, still delayed, bhaak 15:28:46 hmm 15:28:57 it looks like a pretty easy game to duplicate (rewrite from scratch), come to think of it 15:29:14 especially by roguelike standards 15:29:18 supposedly that's what he did and redid all graphics 15:29:32 has an website of its own too, now ;) 15:31:01 a website no game does make :) 15:31:27 Desktop Dungeons is weird because it's designed to have a precisely controlled amount of replayability 15:31:49 something like Crawl is designed to be replayed indefinitely after being won, giving new problems each time 15:32:02 whereas Desktop Dungeons has a pretty clear "completed" state, past which playing it isn't massively interesting 15:32:41 urks, spelling errors abound on the homepage O_o 15:33:07 hehe 15:33:20 it's from the quotes, but still: "starts out feeling like a decent little rougue-like." "the tightest single player design ive seen since solitaire" 15:33:40 "rougue-like" is an interesting variation on "rougelike" 15:33:49 haha 15:33:58 amazingly, my fingers find "roguelike" easier to type than "rougelike", which most people find a much easier word to type 15:34:21 it's how the whole "rouge admin" meme started on Wikipedia (from the common typo) 15:46:01 -!- Adeon has quit [Quit: piip] 15:50:27 well, in any case - they decided to use Unity Web Player as their framework, which is very sucky about their support for non-windows & non-mosx support 15:50:34 so.. bye bye 15:50:50 (desktop dungeons, i mean) 15:51:37 Napkin: I thought Unity's big marketing thing was being cross-platform 15:51:40 is it just pure marketing? 15:51:49 (I haven't tried to use it) 15:52:07 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:21 03dolorous * r11227aa62bcb 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Properly make vampire bats undead. 15:52:31 03dolorous * radb520baa7be 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Properly sort the vampire mosquito description. 15:52:31 03dolorous * r237cb45029d6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Add missing description for vampire bats. 15:52:41 i tried on linux and read their forum.. and they were rather harsh, even though there was less than the usual amount of complains ;) 15:52:59 *complaints? or *complainers? 15:53:24 sorry, i tend to typo that word all the time - few of both, actually 15:54:01 wine & firefox didn't work 15:54:31 and virtualbox4 & winxp didn't work either - with and without experimental 3d accel 15:55:01 oh, i only knew unity from their iOS engine 15:55:10 Whose idea it was to rename Book of Beasts to Book of Zoology ? Also, why Book of Chemistry and not Book of Alchemy ? 15:55:15 -!- Adeon is now known as CardboardBox 15:55:22 = macosx, bhaak.. 15:55:31 book of alchemy would clash with alchemy school, duh 15:55:49 My complaint here - unnecessarily modern. "Beasts", "Alchemy" are perfectly understandable and in my opinion more fitting thematically. 15:55:56 oops, misunderstood you, bhaak - seems they claim cross-platform support now :D 15:56:20 cross-platform = win and osx? 15:56:22 i think book of beasts got renamed because we have a box of beasts and it's repetitive 15:56:34 yeah, ghallberg 15:56:42 uh, wasn't book of zoology a new book? 15:57:04 i thought beasts got removed because it had almost nothing left in it 15:57:15 yeah, and book of zoology is a completely new book 15:57:20 ah, not a renaming, just a book removed and a book added with synonymous names at much the same time 15:57:21 wikipedia says also android, ps3 and xbox360. linux being in beta right now 15:57:33 the real question is why book of zoology has ice form 15:57:43 'because it's a beast' 15:58:00 it should have summon large mammals instead though yeah 15:58:11 wow, beta? when i read 3 months ago they said linux was not even planned nor desired, bhaak :D 15:59:49 Napkin: i only quote wikipedia :) 15:59:57 all lies ;) 16:00:55 Napkin: http://linuxgamingnews.org/2011/03/10/unity-gnulinux-exporter-in-development/ 16:02:02 Beasts got removed, then I added Zoology to host the Summon Hydra spell. I think I thought that Butterflies weren't Beastly enough and went with the new name, but thinking about it now, a Book of Beasts with Summon Butterflies would be funny. 16:02:30 fr: remove sputterflies 16:02:55 fr: add more butterflies 16:04:04 Eronarn: Have you checked it since nerfing? (I haven't) 16:04:54 bhaak: ah, so you can supposedly create a binary that runs on linux, but not use the unity web player 16:05:40 sputterflies is decently balanced nowadays IMO 16:05:46 well, step by step, i guess :) 16:06:16 what was the nerf to it 16:06:38 number of butterflies produced depends heavily on power 16:06:45 off to sleep, cheers 16:06:53 g'night, eino :) 16:07:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:19 at low-ish power you'll usually just get like 3 butterflies 16:07:29 which is still strong but a lot more situational 16:07:37 yeah, no, it's a L1 spell 16:07:50 and even at fairly high power you don't get nearly as many as you used to 16:08:06 Napkin: yes. considering that browser plugins suck anyway, this is the better solution IMO 16:08:10 ofc more awesome would be HTML5 support :) 16:08:22 being able to summon multiple things with one spell is a very powerful effect given how monster displacement (doesn't) works 16:08:38 yeah, well.. i wanted to play a game that is only available as browser-game 16:08:41 eronarn: compare with power 25 spammals 16:09:01 which will be the main use on PCs, i bet.. phones are a different thing, of course 16:09:21 elliptic: what about it? spammals has caused all kinds of problems in the past due to it summoning multiple creatures per cast 16:10:05 Isn't "beast" just a generic english name for a wild animal ? 16:10:07 i'm playing spelunky in wine at the moment - works fine - but why on earth do I always put my hands on hjkl instead of on the cursor keys?! 16:10:39 crawl ruined me! 16:10:50 eronarn: butterflies is probably still too strong when running from something in a corridor but it really isn't much better than spammals 16:10:54 Napkin: Tell me when you unlock the Tunnel Man. 16:11:02 Napkin: play KoL, it has even has the Dungeons of Doom :-) 16:11:19 KoL? 16:11:25 Kingdom of Loathing 16:11:30 It has Baby Killer Bees and stuff. 16:11:33 the really broken thing about butterflies was how it allowed you to shield yourself from missiles at a moment's notice, in any situation 16:11:43 Guardian badgers. Asshat (made of 2 bum cheeks) 16:11:49 now it doesn't really do that in empty spaces 16:12:46 omg, this looks harsh, bhaak 16:12:52 elliptic: Of course butterflies is much better (not abusable) than spammals. Butterflies scatter around, don't try to surround your chaser. 16:13:20 As for missiles - butterflies seem to have good EV, they rarely get hit and absorb arrows. 16:13:35 should make butterflies swap with everything, imo 16:14:14 Napkin: KoL looks harsh? 16:16:58 watching a gameplay video on youtube first ;) 16:17:15 XD KoL videos are hardcore! 16:17:43 I used to play that game several years ago, but now I only follow the updates and read the wiki for the joekes. 16:17:47 >.< 16:23:58 Eronarn: if butterflies swapped with everything, why would people summon them? ranged attack sponge? 16:24:48 ah, only 80 turns a day? I was about to say that it's way too dangerous for me to play ;) 16:25:13 Napkin: only 40 a day base, but there are ways to increase it into the hundreds 16:25:30 newbies get a bonus on day 1 because they won't have them 16:25:40 ic ic 16:26:40 ais523: why does the spell need to be good? it's a L1 spell 16:26:51 I didn't say it had to be good 16:26:58 but people have to have some reason to use it 16:27:05 or it'll become the next bone shards 16:27:12 eronarn: mind playing with the nerfed version a bit before you suggest further changes to the spell? 16:27:14 Napkin: yeah, you know, for getting em hooked on the new drug, you get a bit for free for the first time 16:27:18 people wouldn't memorise a spell of random uselessness 16:27:20 since apparently you haven't 16:27:31 KoL does get boring after you've completed it once, anyway 16:27:43 oh, it's pay-ware later on? 16:27:44 it might be overpowered still, but it really isn't that extreme and it is actually an interesting spell 16:27:57 there are changes the second time round to aid replayability, but they don't go that far; it's not like the game's a roguelike 16:28:09 and the way it works is, the core game is free, but they add new pay content every month 16:28:16 new free content too, but less often 16:28:30 nah, i'm cool, thanks though 16:28:45 and all the pay content is indirectly accessible by players who don't pay for it with money, but it involves spending weeks farming 16:29:07 ah, great, there's the excuse *scratched from the list* :D 16:29:10 Napkin: if you want more adventures per day, you'll be paying by searching the wiki and time-consuming optimizing you gear 16:29:15 back to spelunky ;) 16:29:45 there's paid content? 16:30:12 oh, yes, the mr. whatsitcalled thingy 16:30:39 i thought the paid content is mainly "look i paid and got something for free" badge thing 16:30:39 mr. accessories 16:30:58 bhaak: you trade mr. accessories for items of the month 16:31:03 ah 16:31:39 they often open up new content; the usual mechanic is that the IotM periodically drops a tradeable consumable that lets you use the new content for a bit 16:31:52 so you can either use the IotM directly (paying for it), or trade for the consumable 16:52:57 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:02 trove entrance is bugging (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4174) by EndGamer 17:18:58 what is a timestamp file? I'd like to see what's going on in that trove entrance BR but I'm not sure he actually linked to a savefile? 17:20:02 -!- b0rsuk has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:35:02 -!- gustaf_arg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:26 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:22 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:15 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:34 hey 17:48:35 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:48:39 !messages 17:48:41 (1/1) elliptic said (5h 57m 59s ago): But if d646e2b4 is reverted, won't order of training skills matter again? that is, it will be more efficient to train spellcasting skills at the beginning of the game? 17:49:20 good point 17:49:42 !seen elliptic 17:49:42 I last saw elliptic at Sat Jun 25 22:47:34 2011 UTC (2m 8s ago) saying also it isnt called a stash on ##crawl. 17:49:56 it might be fine as-is, nobody has been complaining about skills at start of game being strange 17:50:56 ok, we can test it out. But I tried to keep the balance as close as possible when changing costs, and this one can have a significant impact 17:51:39 so maybe we should revert it for now, so we can better evaluate skill cost changes, and address it later. 17:51:49 yeah, if you can think of a decent way of simulating the old effect while keeping things order-independent, that would be good 17:52:37 because casters are supposed to be balanced by the fact that they have more skills to train. But if those skills are twice cheaper... 17:53:49 uh, the hack made the skills cheaper, no? 17:54:02 so removing it should have been a nerf to early-game casters 17:54:18 which might be okay 17:54:33 anyway, I have to leave now 17:54:37 ok, let's test it then :) 17:54:44 I'll run simulations too 18:06:08 https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdFV3UWg1RndxM2FtM3ZrOTNUQnBqRHc&hl=en_US&gid=11 18:06:16 that's the discount I removed. 18:06:34 anyway, I was just on my way to bed 18:12:45 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:52:24 03dolorous * rf64bb29e1d4a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Add spacing fix. 19:21:49 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:44:03 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:57 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:39:36 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:40 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Changing host] 20:39:40 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 21:38:28 03dolorous * r63693139e473 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-wpnench.cc: Fix Mantis 4166: Maxwell's Silver Hammer now checks for bludgeoning damage type. 22:12:08 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:23 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev