00:00:29 if I have maximally enchanted armor and read unidentified scroll (which happens to be identify) I figured it wasn't enchant armour scroll, because it suggested the armour that was already max enchanted 00:00:50 I didn't find this in the bug tracker so thought to ask here if it's a bug 00:03:13 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-407-ge235f74 (32) 00:03:20 suggested? 00:03:30 i mean 00:03:38 when you read a scroll of enchant armour 00:03:50 it gives a list of your armours that you can enchant 00:04:35 if you read any unidentified scroll that asks for an item, it will list all items you have 00:05:50 but when you read unidentified scroll of enchant armour it doesn't list the armour which is maximally enchanted 00:06:07 or then my memory is bad 00:06:43 that would be a bug if so 00:08:04 oki ^^ 00:18:18 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-407-ge235f74 00:18:51 statue form is only meant to be partial torment resistance now, right? 00:20:41 it looks like monsters won't even try and cast it, since you're marked as nonliving with it active 00:20:50 so they assume you're completely immune and it's a waste of time to cast 00:21:55 oh i guess i can just add an exception along with demonspawn 00:22:15 -!- nonsensical has quit [] 00:29:30 the half torment is really weird 00:30:00 i don't get what the justification for it is 00:30:16 you're partially petrified 00:30:23 and petrification = nonliving, i guess 00:30:38 but yeah it's weird, since you're considered nonliving when in statue form 00:30:44 but can still mutate and stuff 00:31:34 my suggestion was to balance it around no inventory use (because it's all turned to stone), but make the resists more in line with statues 00:32:15 it's also strange that you can eat while nonliving i suppose 00:32:27 I'm not really sure why petrification has to count as nonliving anyway 00:32:36 seems like a lot of trouble 00:33:07 yeah 00:34:15 and the metaphysics of it really don't seem clear to me... it isn't like anyone found it strange that statue form was living before this 00:35:20 eronarn: it seems reasonable enough that statue form would be controlled enough that you aren't petrifying your backpack 00:35:47 it isn't like spider form turns your items into spiders 00:36:05 maybe it should 00:36:08 again, could go either way 00:37:07 i can envision the spell two ways: 1) your flesh and blood turns into stone (rather than just your skin). should basically just be a HP/AC/GDR buff, and most other stuff should work exactly the same (e.g., item use) with possibly some exceptions (eating, potions) 00:37:50 2) you and all of your possessions turn into stone (this is by far the more common representation of what petrification is like), but your sword and armor still work, etc. 00:39:07 to me 1) seems weird when we have stoneskin because the spell would look almost identical to stoneskin to the casual observer 00:40:00 that being said, whether 1) or 2), i could actually see *not* giving torment res to statueform 00:40:12 because it can be based off of the presence of a soul 00:40:48 statueform changes your body but you still have a vulnerable spiritual presence which can be tormented/pained/drained (even if not rotted or poisoned, let's say) 01:22:29 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:43 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:16 -!- Rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:49 -!- Rejuxst has quit [Client Quit] 01:47:24 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:56 !seen galehar 01:47:57 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:47:57 I last saw galehar at Tue Jun 7 22:50:41 2011 UTC (7h 57m 16s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the connection. 01:48:03 !messages 01:48:03 (1/2) galehar said (9h 7m 48s ago): all magic skills and evocations are boosted. When I recently capped the bonus for low level skills, it resulted in L1 skills not getting a boost for a low bonus. 01:48:12 !messages 01:48:12 (1/1) galehar said (9h 4s ago): the formula can still be improved. It's annoying that sometimes you gain a skill level but your bonus diminish resulting in no gain. Maybe by working with skill points instead of skill level we can have a smoother result. 01:57:58 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:10:00 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:13:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:17 moin 02:26:18 Zaba: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:26:21 !messages 02:26:21 (1/1) kilobyte said (11h 58m 6s ago): could you comment on mantis #4101? I think trying to use PLACE there is a bad idea. 02:32:36 kilobyte, commented 02:42:10 03dpeg * r540a6487db3f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/help.txt: Update Ctrl-F help. 02:45:38 -!- ortoslon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:46:05 03MarvinPA * rd9c0aa16f84a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Allow monsters to cast torment at statue-formed players 02:46:17 03MarvinPA * rd1eb6aca2759 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/entry_small.des: Remove a human zombie from an entry vault 02:46:23 03MarvinPA * r7d7dcb9c4eed 10/crawl-ref/source/art-func.h: Don't allow guardian spirit to work on the Staff of Dispater's HP cost 02:46:25 the thing about the zot_entry tag is that it usually fails to place the vault (at least for big vaults... it seems to have better success with minivaults) 02:46:45 in debug mode it leads to a bunch of "Bad vault place" messages until it gives up 02:47:30 Is this because entry vaults are always assumed to be minivaults? Or can you have an ORIENTed entry vault? 02:47:47 they are not assumed to be minivaults 02:47:50 When I looked through other entry vaults they were all minivaults from what I can tell 02:47:55 although I didn't do a comprehensive look 02:47:57 but they are always placed as secondary vaults 02:48:06 can't do it differently, sorry 02:48:39 evilmike, minivault or no is almost irrelevant at that stage. 02:49:05 hmm 02:49:11 they are placed on top of an existing level. They can have ORIENT just fine, and it will affect their placement as well as it can. 02:49:22 well, one thing I did notice is that removing the ORIENT line makes the vaults considerably more likely to be placed. I have no idea why 02:49:34 because then they use minivault placement rules 02:50:06 with ORIENT: float, they use floating placement but on top of an existing level, and it doesn't try as hard as the minivault placement to find a place 02:51:01 evilmike, so, indeed, it is probably optimal to make them minivaults (i.e., remove ORIENT) 02:51:22 it increases the odds of successful placement somewhat 02:52:15 that explanation makes sense, thanks 02:52:24 evilmike, but still, considering how they are large, and how there can legitimately be other vaults on the level, there can be no guarantees 02:52:37 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:54 Another thing that could be done is just repurpose those zot entry vaults as general zot vaults 02:53:12 you mean, ones placed in Zot? 02:53:20 yeah, containing the down-stairs 02:53:25 Zot entry vaults are a lot more interesting, imo :) 02:53:28 or at least, some o fthe stairs some of the time 02:53:43 i like the idea of them as zot entry vaults, since it means people actually have to do them 02:53:45 well, probably. Although just reducing their size slightly and making them minivaults should work well enough 02:53:52 MarvinPA: exactly! 02:54:10 hi 02:54:16 evilmike, don't be confused by the 'mini' in 'minivault' 02:54:16 it's really easy to skip most of the vaults that generate inside zot, which is a pity becasue there's some nice challenges 02:54:20 It's okay if the bigger vaults are more rare.... they should just come up sometimes. 02:54:30 Zaba: Yeah, I was confused by that earlier, but it's clear now 02:54:36 evilmike, it doesn't directly refer to the size of the vault 02:54:37 galehar: bonjour! 02:55:28 Yesterday I had an awesome vault with a gallery of statues... and no means of teleport. Had to use fog to get out. 03:14:50 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:42 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:36 dpeg: you can use that specific idea in a Zot entry vault if you wish 03:45:58 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:15 assuming people have a means of killing them, of course... it'd be tedious to have to cTele/etc if you have to go to Zot multiple times 03:54:44 kilobyte: what idea? 03:55:09 09:55 <@dpeg> Yesterday I had an awesome vault with a gallery of statues... 03:59:04 ah, that's an already existing vault :) 03:59:08 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:53 kilobyte: you can see it if you check my game on CDO 04:01:44 what statues are they? 04:03:02 I saw orange and silver, iirc 04:05:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:20 Alright, I removed the orient lines, made the maps a bit more compact, and reuploaded them to mantis 04:07:38 One of them is bigger than the rest and occasionally still has issues, but it doesnt seem serious. Overall they all work now 04:15:58 evilmike: many thanks! 04:19:08 Ooh, I need to check those out. 04:21:13 Looking forward to dying in many of those! :] 04:25:37 dpeg: no problem :) 04:27:26 I've been thinking of doing something with pandemonium entrances next 04:27:34 What I'm thinking is they'd be really small, mostly decorative, maybe a few with 2 or 3 type demons, or very rarely, one of the non-fiend 1's (based on depth, perhaps) 04:32:00 Monsters don't use torment when I turn on statue form (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4113) by cosmonaut 04:36:20 ahar 04:36:34 that should be fixed when cdo updates 04:48:20 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-411-gd1eb6ac (32) 04:52:26 evilmike, by 'struggles', do you mean it tries to place it a lot and then gives up, or that it takes it a lot of tries to place it? 04:53:13 I mean sometimes it tries to place it and gives up (the level still gets a zot entry though, just not an entry vault) 04:53:37 ok 04:53:47 otherwise though, it doesn't have difficulty placing it from what I can tell 05:42:20 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:43:07 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:07 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:59:08 -!- evilmike has quit [] 06:31:32 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:24 Morning 06:43:30 Hi 07:08:40 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:07 03dolorous * r04d7ba450959 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Rename MONS_SALT_PILLAR to MONS_PILLAR_OF_SALT, to match its actual name. 07:23:19 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:23:52 I cannot use my ring of invisibility (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4114) by moekitten 07:25:55 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:00 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:14 -!- herself has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:47 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 08:17:24 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:38 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:24 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:10 anyone have thoughts on http://pastebin.com/QkHVHLUB for a potential vestibule of hell monster set? 08:29:38 2s and hell knights and other hellish things and demons, dunno if there's anything i've missed that would fit 08:30:11 but would be good to get rid it using the boring D monster set 08:30:13 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r374a59411fc1 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Fix incomplete database when switching between console and tiles. 08:30:24 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r0793531b5eed 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Check object base_type when cursing it. 08:30:24 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r56ab6e57e2da 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Don't let Xom animate distortion. 08:30:24 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r6b30fe2fe44c 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Fix a rounding error for spells with three schools. 08:30:25 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r923901700040 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Fix escape not cancelling partial pickup. 08:30:25 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r613f243062ae 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/entry_small.des: Remove a human zombie from an entry vault 08:30:25 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r15842b683632 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Clear several attributes on felid death. 08:32:28 MarvinPA: I made a proposal with a bunch of new monsters before, perhaps you'd prefer that instead 08:32:48 hm, new monsters would also be cool 08:33:03 i remember there were some ideas for interesting new 2s, can't remember what they were though 08:33:06 some of them just existing monsters with different gear, like red devil with crossbows 08:33:33 Now about completely randomly generated uniques? :-) Random attributes, random name, random everything 08:35:21 ion: aren't those called panlords? 08:35:28 Perhaps a portal vault with one of those: a chance of crappy items or awesome items from the monster as well as a chance of an easy kill of a certain death. 08:35:29 a good part of that proposal was somewhat silly, though: clockworkdemon (built-in "hand ballista"), hell cavaliers (ride pink demon horses, use riding code same as spriggan riders, have a special ability "charge" that gives a movement speed boost but can make them overshoot) 08:35:38 s/of a certain/or a certain/ 08:35:48 kilobyte: Ooh, I love that charge idea 08:36:40 Are hellephants already in the vestibule? 08:37:00 current Vestibule is all about ranged heavy-hitters and a bit of hard melee 08:37:04 dpeg: no 08:37:19 would be probably too hard at that depth still 08:37:28 I know the old Vestibule, but hellephants should really go in any set: they're hellish, and they push the player off the stairs. 08:37:53 * dpeg lobbies for the hellephant greeting squad. 08:38:10 i guess they could be toned down in toughness to make them appropriate for the vestibule 08:38:43 are they used anywhere right now? 08:38:58 only the abyss, rarely 08:39:18 Zot 08:39:24 oh, really? 08:39:37 oh right yeah, the circus vault 08:40:28 not that people are likely to clear the circus vault 08:41:03 They're better off as a more visible monster in Vestibule! 08:41:09 also a single hellephant doesn't sound bad to me in vestibule 08:41:18 the "sea of fire" encompass vault has one as the final boss 08:41:56 elliptic: yes, I wonder why we are so reluctant... That's not our style. 08:42:18 I am not talking about replacing the yaktaur masses by hellephant masses. 08:42:34 one in a WEIGTH:1 vault that can spawn as early at D:20, but with weak support 08:42:37 btw, does anyone know what Ctrl-F ".." is good for? 08:43:01 iirc that gets all items? maybe just all items in the branch? 08:43:04 doesn't that find everything? 08:43:21 it has the issue that by midgame it won't work because too many matches 08:43:30 (unless you are with nemelex or something) 08:44:28 it finds everything... so it is often useless 08:44:41 just wanted to know if one of you added it :) 08:46:24 exercising, back later 08:50:24 any idea where doy is gone to? It'd be better to merge that demon rank overhaul of his before adding new demons. 08:59:12 (making ranks make sense is a great idea. Blue death -> blizzard demon, less so) 09:00:23 too close to ice fiends minus torment, and blue deaths actually stand out, unlike fiend flavours and a good deal of other demons 09:01:32 well, the only actual change is shadow creatures -> freezing cloud isn't it? 09:02:12 but yeah, shadow creatures on them is cool, maybe something else boring could get it though 09:02:50 I don't like freezing cloud as a monster spell because it rarely does much damage, just destroys potions 09:03:10 it is interesting sometimes on ice statues because you can fight them much earlier 09:03:59 true, sticky flame ends up being the same later on but for scrolls 09:04:33 right, I don't think 1s should get sticky flame either 09:05:12 balrugs could easily lose it 09:06:10 probably, yeah 09:09:11 I liked blizzard demon for Ice Cave application, but I guess doy had a motive for getting rid of shadow creatures? 09:16:33 Rutee (L14 DrTm) ERROR: range check error (52 / 52) (Orc:4) 09:22:39 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:14 !lm Rutee type=crash -log 09:27:15 1. Rutee, XL14 DrTm, T:36484 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.8/Rutee/crash-Rutee-20110608-141630.txt 09:28:17 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:25 a webtiles one 09:33:41 edlothiol: by the way, when do you plan merging into trunk? 09:34:06 there's quite little time if the tourney is to run on 0.9 09:36:38 hm... how much time are we talking about? 09:38:15 not sure if the tourney is still going to take the entire month 09:38:25 I have already rebased to trunk locally, I should probably talk to Napkin about making the server run trunk 09:38:51 if so, final release would have to happen around Jul 24, and branching around Jul 1 09:39:14 it doesn't have to be public yet... 09:39:25 just something that can be integrated somehow 09:39:50 I'm especially looking at _not_ having a webtiles server on CDO :p 09:40:36 (ie, it'd be nice if regular console games would produce tiles data) 09:42:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:50:27 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:53 kilobyte: sorry, lost the connection without noticing 09:52:08 having console games produce tiles data would be quite a large change from the current way 09:53:08 well, why? 09:53:16 most of the code is side to side 09:53:28 the only big change would be starting Crawl 09:55:45 webtiles games being unwatchable is quite bad... you can't see how something wrong happened 09:58:09 for that, I think it'd be easier to have webtiles games additionally write ttyrecs 09:59:02 A client-server-style separation between the UI and the game logic would be quite appropriate. One could play with any frontend and spectators could watch with any frontend. And spectators would be free to browse inventory, skills, attributes, spells, mapped levels at will without affecting the player. :-) 10:00:07 I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to browse someone's skills, spells, and equipment while watching them 10:03:02 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:27 how do you exactly produce ttyrecs without having console interface? 10:04:16 Autoconnect a ttyrec-saver “UI” to any running games along with the player’s UI of choice and any spectators. 10:04:44 I don't know ;) ok, thinking about it, making crawl output both may be less work than I thought 10:04:51 Do webtiles games save ttyrecs at the moment? 10:05:21 ion: no, that's what I suggested 10:05:29 With the proper architecture, they would. 10:06:23 The ttyrec saver pseudo-UI could additionally use a resolution like 80×24 even if the player is using a 1000×500 terminal on her 50-inch screen. 10:06:53 Just like the spectators would observe with the terminal size of their choice. 10:06:58 It'd also let people (relatively) easily make things like isometric crawl or 3d crawl if they really wanted to. 10:10:01 kilobyte: there are still many places that are #ifdef'd to produce different output for tiles or console, though 10:10:41 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:37 edlothiol: and how is that different for regular console output vs some pseudo-ttyrec-writer? 10:16:50 the ifdefs have to be unifdefed and fixed anyway 10:16:57 but are easy to grep for 10:17:10 yes, you're right about that 10:18:43 so the real difference is starting the game from DGL or from that tornado thingy 10:19:12 I'm afraid I don't know it yet 10:19:15 yes, you're right, it wouldn't be that much of a difference 10:19:50 the webtiles output would have to be sent in some other way than stdout, though 10:20:04 but that wouldn't be very hard to do, I think 10:20:16 kilobyte: Instead of any UI renderer the current code would provide a server with an abstract protocol that presents exactly the same information available to the current UIs, to which any number of clients could connect to, one of them being the player, one saving a ttyrec and zero or more being spectators. 10:20:38 ion: yeah, that'd be a good idea in the long run 10:21:17 ion: currently Crawl has UI stuff hopelessly entangled with viewing, but it's fixable 10:22:06 edlothiol: hmm, so tornado relies on an uninterrupted connection and everything going through stdout? 10:22:35 well currently the communication with the crawl process goes through stdin/out, yes 10:23:23 edlothiol: that'd make it tricky to add different transports, and with websockets being an unstable protocol with no wide support, other transports are kind of needed 10:23:35 oh, kilobyte: can it happen that you.equip[EQ_WEAPON] is 52? does that mean something special? (looking at the crash from above) 10:23:56 hm, why would it make it harder to add different transports? 10:24:00 edlothiol: there are 52 inventory slots 10:24:32 because no other transport I can think of has fully persistent connections 10:25:58 that could be handled transparently (the websocket connection is not directly connected to the crawl pipes, the messages from it are handled by the python server first) 10:31:20 by the way, what other transports are you thinking of? 10:37:39 due to heretic values of travel_delay other than -1, there's a need to support unsolicited data from the server 10:37:59 so there are two parts: the server sending something, or the client 10:38:21 yes 10:38:23 ironically, it's server push that's easy 10:40:29 Mozilla has x-mixed-replace since 16 years, Chrome, Safari and I think Opera have server-sent events, literally everything has long reads 10:42:16 long reads being universal would seem most tempting to use, but most (all?) browsers will keep showing the page as still loading. So, that'd be the last resort for Internet Exploder. 10:42:36 which is sadly what most people use :( 10:43:25 of course, coding support for IE 6 would be something you condemn worst criminals to 10:44:01 but 8 and 9 are merely bad rather than terrible 10:44:45 the client sending things is harder 10:44:53 well IE8 doesn't support canvas, so that's out anyway ;) 10:45:32 you know, I wonder if IE is really dominant among crawl players 10:46:38 probably less than in the general population, but I still don't imagine not supporting it 10:47:01 and supporting non-experimental browsers is kind of a must, too 10:47:51 flipping a switch that says "there's a security hole here, disable this block if you feel cavalier" goes on the "experimental" side too 10:49:33 heh... I've just read that the new version of WebSockets just doesn't support proxies at all :p 10:50:02 that's nice 10:51:45 really? where did you read that? 10:53:02 doesn't seem likely to me, since the current websockets draft explicitly mentions connections over proxies 10:55:48 version 76 demands Content-length to be 8 smaller than the real length 10:57:06 and http specification in turns explicitely forbids proxies to send anything above that 11:01:35 I don't think 76 is the newest version - 07 is 11:03:07 although I don't know if that's different in 07 11:05:39 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:50 another thing: native tiles are not only slow like Vista, but also outright fail to work on a lot of machines 11:12:02 or show display corruption, sometimes minor, sometimes big 11:12:51 I wonder if it'd be hard to have an option of serving webtiles right from Crawl itself or a process spawned for it, locally 11:13:01 s/for/from/ 11:14:20 crawl would have to integrate an http server 11:15:30 well... I've been asked to implement a http server in sh on a job interview once :p It's not rocket surgery. 11:15:35 Probably nicer to have the crawl server provide the generic protocol and have a separate HTTP wrapper. 11:16:06 (ok, a full-blown http server with bells and whistles is hard, something minimal that just passes websocket data is not) 11:16:32 ion: yeah, it doesn't have to be inside the Crawl executable 11:17:11 it might be possible to use py2exe to create an executable from the python server 11:17:31 it already has a mode that bypasses all the dgl stuff and directly starts crawl 11:17:38 how big would it be? 11:17:56 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:59 does it rip away most of python? 11:18:02 that'd be a nasty kludge to maintain, I imagine 11:18:24 I don't think that a special-purpose http server is scarier than the other stuff that we already have in crawl :P 11:18:45 because the problem with python is that it's not modular, with its authors' wishes explicitely requesting it to never be shipped without "batteries included" 11:18:51 especially if it's abstracted away from stuff 11:18:57 yeah 11:19:11 I'm afraid we're going too far forward, though 11:19:15 but yes 11:19:23 yes 11:19:24 let's integrate the current thing first 11:19:27 right now, stuffing another interface into the existing 'architecture' would be scary 11:19:35 even if that interface is "just" a http server 11:26:42 HTTP is definitely not the best choice for the abstract UI/game protocol as it’s not designed for long connections with interaction among the client and the server. 11:32:11 03kilobyte * r8492ceb405c0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (package.cc package.h): Try to fight fragmentation by choosing the best-fitting block. 11:32:16 03kilobyte * rbb8cc2404706 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc libutil.cc libutil.h package.cc package.h): Show some internal info about saves. 11:50:06 03dolorous * r0b1b13f2cd59 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_wpn.txt: Add another potential artefact name. 12:00:40 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:38 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:17 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:58 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:05 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:19 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:31 Sorry - of course it doesn't... 12:19:42 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:01 back 13:15:26 2 bread and 1 meat ration.. all up to D11 13:15:29 geez 13:16:09 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:22 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:49 Napkin: yeah, such randomness sucks. That's why I'm having second thoughts about octopodes. 13:21:44 oh? what about them? 13:21:53 you quite often can find four rings on D:1, and in my last decent game (non-OP, though), I had not a single ring until Lair:3 13:22:08 hehe 13:22:11 yeah 13:22:27 chei and ash have similar issues 13:22:36 another of recent games, I had two rings of slaying on D:1 (didn't identify them at that moment though) 13:22:49 ok, ok, one was just +1,+1 but the other +0,+7 13:23:16 I don't see this as such a big problem with octopodes really though 13:23:19 well, nothing wrong with high variance necessarily 13:24:01 for Ash, losing +12.5% xp and a small bit of piety is not game ending 13:24:02 an octopode finding a ring of fire resistance on d:1 isn't any better than a spriggan finding that ring 13:24:13 kilobyte: uh, you clearly haven't tried new ash :P 13:24:18 since that's not how ash works now 13:24:20 nothing wrong, just unfair if you get one extremety of randomness one game after another *sigh* 13:24:27 then it's just not fun anymore 13:24:29 if anything it's just another differentiating factor, opposite to felids where they're the exactly same regardless what items get generated :P 13:24:46 four rings on D:1 'quite often'? 13:25:05 exactly the same* 13:25:09 a Chei player won't have lots of piety to reap the benefits of all slots yet, and additional ponderousness doesn't matter much for piety gain 13:25:48 kilobyte: a chei player often doesn't get full armour until long long after they get max piety 13:25:50 we are talking vaults here 13:25:53 MarvinPA: well, try a kitteh with an amulet of rage, a ring of regen and a ring of rPois vs one with none of those things 13:25:57 for finding those boots or whatever 13:26:26 elliptic: yeah, but it's quite likely to have a full set by mid-Lair when you get full piety 13:26:40 so? 13:26:50 what I just said was that it is quite likely that you won't 13:27:32 and if you have to wait until v:6 to find your first cloak (has happened to me), that's +5 to all stats you are missing out on 13:28:07 it's not something you can easily scum 13:28:31 many rings on D:1, that's start-scumming 13:28:33 i don't see how this is a problem anyway, crawl is random 13:28:47 oh, you are concerned about octopode startscumming? that hadn't really occurred to me, but I don't think it is worth worrying about 13:28:52 anyone can scum D:1 for crystal plate mail, who cares? 13:29:07 people other than sebi don't scum d:1 for CPM or rings or whatever he scums for 13:29:18 it wouldn't be any more a problem for octopodes than for any other species, at least 13:30:07 it takes way too much work for that CPM, and due to accuracy and weapon delay losses it won't matter into much later on, when other random factors will probably matter more 13:30:19 as I said earlier, the effect of getting a couple good rings early on isn't really that much higher for an octopode anyway 13:30:24 most rings are junk early on 13:30:29 a +8 ring of slaying, or a barding for a centaur, or whatever, then 13:30:32 cpm was just an example 13:30:37 "any more"? Uhm... the biggest example you brough up is losing full ponderosity for Chei. 13:30:41 and the slaying rings you mentioned would be great for any one 13:31:13 yeah, but for other races rings are capped 13:31:36 no matter how many great rings you find, you can't wear more than two 13:31:52 you aren't realistically scumming for more than one good ring though 13:31:59 I don't care what crazy finds you've had recently 13:32:25 and scumming for one good ring, you still might not find more for a while 13:32:36 the relative gain is really not that huge compared to other races 13:33:16 also, the difference between having a buckler and not having one for ash is huge 13:33:25 but you apparently haven't tried new ash, so... 13:33:37 the randomness is okay, even if Napkin complains sometimes :) 13:33:53 kilobyte has a point that OP might lead weak players to startscum 13:34:09 ;-P 13:34:19 I'd be more concerned about startscumming for a protection ring than any tales of double slaying rings 13:34:19 it wouldn't be any more effective with OP than for any other race though, if we're just talking d:1 13:34:29 with Ash/Chei it is much more delayed 13:34:46 since protection rings auto-ID and are much more useful for OP than other races (if OP goes back to 0 AC, which I still think it should) 13:34:49 try 1: 2 rings; try 2: 1 ring, +1 dwarven buckler; try 3,4,5: nada 13:34:57 however, I wouldn't hold that as a kicking argument against OP 13:35:06 kilobyte: non-OP like rings and bucklers too 13:35:06 if need be, we can reduce variance at shallow depth 13:35:11 you don't seem to be getting the point 13:35:44 also, were the rings any good? did you have ID for them? 13:35:48 elliptic: they like rings, yeah, but scumming for one doesn't bring a benefit that lasts long 13:36:28 it doesn't for OP either, particularly... most common rings are near-useless until you are well into midgame 13:36:48 ring of life protection? ring of rF+/rC+? ring of hunger? ring of teleport? 13:36:55 basic armour and basic weapons has almost no variance: you might not get a spiked flail or a plate but have to work it with a morningstar and a splint mail or dip into Orc 13:37:06 the only rings you'd want to wear tons of as an OP you'd want to wear tons of as a non-OP anyways 13:37:09 very rare that my non-OP have more than 2 rings they actually want to use until L15 or so 13:37:15 -!- ais523 is now known as scarf 13:37:22 I like the fact that sometimes, you have a game with virtually no scrolls, or no rings... we will just let Napkin let off a 'lil steam over here and not change anything :) 13:37:59 right, variance is exactly what makes things interesting anyway 13:38:00 -!- scarf is now known as ais523 13:38:20 but no food? ;) 13:38:46 food +1! 13:39:07 Napkin: yes, also no food! 13:39:14 The food clock is too lax anyway. 13:39:23 make hive a portal vault 13:39:25 Everyone should play with Napkin amounts of food :) 13:40:01 omg! you are such a mean guy, david :D 13:42:07 * kilobyte tosses a cursed ring of hunger Napkin's way. With no scrolls of RC, of course. 13:42:28 oh, and an orc with a wand of berserkitis, too 13:42:54 devs have a special flag in dgl.. don't they? :> 13:43:52 berserking would be a neat wand 13:44:11 Napkin: I am serious about the food clock, though 13:44:15 as a hostile spell - MR-resisted 13:44:24 i am afraid you are! 13:44:33 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:34 rare, like haste or healing 13:44:44 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:52 i completely disagree, of course 13:44:57 food is interesting because we don't want the food clock to be too lax but we also don't really want starvation deaths to be commonplace (at least I don't think we do?) 13:45:35 clocks generally suck - i'm playing crawl - i'm not at work 13:46:20 it is good when people need to think about how much food they have left, but it shouldn't randomly kill people, which it might start doing if generation was decreased too much 13:46:32 food isn't so much a clock in Crawl, as a balancing factor on powerful spells and abilities 13:47:10 come to think of it, it wouldn't make much gameplay difference if food levels never went below near starving, but you couldn't sacrifice corpses until you recovered up to a less hungry level 13:47:18 elliptic: yes, of course 13:47:26 not that that would make any flavour sense at all 13:47:42 ais523: uh, you know that most gods don't take corpse sacrifices, right? so what you are saying doesn't make much sense 13:47:43 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:05 elliptic: I do know 13:48:06 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:24 but I had to include that as a special case as hunger is the only thing stopping sacrificing corpses that you didn't need for any other purpose being a no-brainer 13:48:26 i should really join ##crawl again.. cursing in here way too often turns into something worse! ;> 13:49:17 if food levels never went below near starving, then it wouldn't be a balancing factor on spells/abilities except on characters who depend on corpse sacrifices, with what you said 13:52:08 unless you lost other things, like the ability to cast high-level spells, most of healing speed, etc 13:52:34 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:38 kilobyte: btw, your IOOD was a stroke of genius 13:52:50 we need more delayed spells 13:54:02 we should buff IOOD somehow so that people will actually use it 13:54:47 I use it! 13:54:52 I killed Saint Roka for me,. 13:54:58 although I needed two tries 13:55:08 elliptic: I was under the impression that you couldn't use spells or abilities with a food cost greater than the amount of nutrition you had 13:55:12 or is that just NetHack? 13:55:37 ais523: the way it usually works is that your spells take you to starving 13:55:47 ah, I see 13:55:47 and then you can't use any ability with a food cost after that 13:55:49 ais523: so you mean a system like: you have to be Engorged to be berserk, but it costs no hunger to berserk, but hunger decays slowly regardless of what you do? 13:55:52 or am i misunderstanding you 13:56:13 Eronarn: I was not suggesting such a system, but saying that it wouldn't be too different from the current system in terms of gameplay effects 13:56:31 elliptic: i'd like to see iood not autohit, but aim at its target accurately, and try to dodge past its non-targets 13:56:35 personally, I don't believe the engorged make better amok candidates than the rest of the population 13:56:49 but apparently people consider the spell to be a gigantic ball of energy bigger than a house or whatever 13:56:57 so if you think of it as that, that might not make sense 13:57:37 the crucial ideas for IOOD are: takes several turns to hit; needs distance and open spaces -- this is kilobyte's genius :) 13:57:43 all the rest are details 13:58:07 dpeg: IOOD is a fun spell and I was exaggerating a bit (I've used it too occasionally, on characters with lots of spell slots and high conj skill and no other decent source of unresistible damage), but it really doesn't compare that well with most high-end conjurations in most circumstances 13:58:38 elliptic: well, I have an OgWz with nothing but Spc and Con, so it seems natural to use 13:58:44 also, why not nerf the other spells? :) 13:58:55 <3 IOOD.. raise damage a bit at short range? 13:59:04 :-X 13:59:09 or level 6? 13:59:09 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:25 currently IOOD uses a truly bizarre damage formula 13:59:35 involving an extra stepdown over any other spell 13:59:44 elliptic: for distance? 14:00:00 no, this is for max distance damage 14:00:07 could add iood shock combos :) 14:00:14 the short-distance damage reduction is fine I think 14:00:27 but spell power gets an extra stepdown for IOOD 14:00:28 haha, shock combos <3 14:00:32 I am not saying that IOOD has to stay like it is right now, just wanted to point it's a really good idea and the two reasons of why (imo) 14:01:40 MarvinPA: that was a serious suggestion too - make it work with dart or imb 14:01:43 right, I just wish that a fun spell like IOOD was a better choice relative to other spells than it is so that I would use it more :) 14:02:13 one thing that could help is having monsters try to dodge it 14:02:19 one thing that could help is removing IMB 14:02:27 since they often can dodge it while also still moving closer to you 14:02:50 this would help with summons and stuff getting splattered by it and wasting your MP 14:03:31 it'd be pretty easy, too... just mark iood-may-move-here as less-preferred squares 14:03:34 elliptic: ypi ar 14:03:37 sorry 14:03:45 elliptic: you are here to help us improve the numbers :) 14:04:36 i like imb a lot, but it could stand to be nerfed 14:04:50 it's too good relative to, say, icicle 14:05:19 I was serious about removing IMB 14:05:25 or changing it into something more interesting 14:05:38 not sure what though 14:05:44 We nerfed IMB a lot by reducing its range. It could almost win the game for you in old Crawl :) 14:06:24 right, and IMB isn't really that powerful a spell... it is a very usable source of unresistible damage though for any conjurer who gets it 14:06:34 and this interferes with IOOD's niche 14:07:00 would you really take a level 7 spell for irresistible damage over stone arrow or iron shot or something though? 14:07:10 ??throw icicle[1] 14:07:11 throw icicle[1/2]: A 4th level Ice/Conjuration spell. Throw Icicle casts a single-target projectile of high-velocity ice, doing mixed cold and physical damage. 25% of the damage can be mitigated by cold resistance. 3d20 at max power. In the Book of Frost. 14:07:11 ??imb 14:07:15 mystic blast[1/1]: The big brother of magic dart, for spellcasters ready to deal some serious damage. The effect is described as an "orb of energy". Okay damage, very high accuracy, simply irresistible. Level 4 conjuration spell found in the Book of Power. Deals 2d28 at max power. 14:07:19 marvinpa: well, I might not be going earth 14:07:43 3d20 > 2d28, and the range is better, too 14:08:34 kilobyte: throw icicle got nerfed though recently, and it is 2-school... I think I'd still prefer it to IMB on ice casters though 14:08:36 what about having imb be a max-range autohit - like dart and iood - but nerfing the damage a lot? say, airstrike level but with an actually sane formula 14:09:29 I prefer airstrike, though... slightly less damage than IMB, but LOS range is a major thing 14:09:39 especially when taking out hellions 14:10:02 there's few other ways for relatively safely taking out the Hellion Isle 14:10:13 death's door + tornado is a fun way :P 14:10:48 still though, I don't like making IMB be max-range autohit because of airstrike 14:11:10 airstrike is a reasonably well-balanced spell IMO 14:11:14 then there's a random demon walking from behind a corner and plinking you with throw frost or something 14:11:32 airstrike could use a less awful damage formula 14:11:34 other than that it's good 14:11:57 IMB is ok too... 14:14:00 I learned from the card game Race for the Galaxy that there is a concept of opportunity cost. As long as you do not have access to all the spells, you have to make choice with what've got. 14:15:03 right, so it would be better if having a book with IOOD didn't make it really likely that you would also have IMB 14:15:28 indeed 14:15:48 shouldn't two spells from the same school, one small, one big, complement each other? 14:16:04 except that I'd rather use IMB than IOOD in nearly all situations 14:16:28 kilobyte: like i said, shock combo! :D 14:16:53 making IMB more interesting somehow would be good for this 14:17:09 there are two ways: 1. make it a natural progression (magic dart -> throw frost -> icicle -> freezing cloud -> icestorm (no, bolt of cold sees about no use) 14:17:19 what 14:17:21 what? 14:17:23 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:27 what 14:17:36 I have no idea what you are trying to say but bolt of cold sees tons and tons of use 14:17:43 2. different behaviours 14:17:44 hehe, this channel is good for shaking private misconceptions :) 14:17:57 especially in extended endgame, where it one-shots hellions and fiends 14:20:13 I also can't think of any character that goes magic dart -> throw frost -> icicle, and I can't see what this has to do with IMB/IOOD... but maybe I'm missing something :) 14:20:35 conj[ice] who finds a book of frost on d:1 :P 14:22:17 Minor Magic[ice] and Conjurations[ice] both have these two 14:22:24 they don't have icicle 14:22:26 another book has Freeze then Throw Frost 14:22:52 also minor magic[ice] doesn't exist 14:22:57 :) 14:23:31 oh hm 14:23:41 elliptic: it does, you just need to transfer a save or get it in wizmode :p 14:23:53 i wonder if tweaking imb could be tied into reducing the conjurer background to a single book 14:24:31 thought: imb as a conj/hex, based on MR 14:24:48 er, why? 14:25:16 conj/hex sounds strange to me 14:25:18 because it's a direction we haven't gone in with any spells yet, and it could be interesting 14:25:47 it's kind of like fire/ice 14:25:51 not at all 14:25:57 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:25:58 fire and ice are innately opposed at the school level 14:26:05 random IMB idea: give it a chance at a one-square pushback 14:26:07 (or earth/air, <3 Cumulogranite) 14:26:07 conj and hex simply don't have obvious synergy right now 14:26:27 kilobyte: cumulogranite is pure sex 14:28:34 technically, such a spell should work only on flying monsters 14:29:01 since Wikipedia's article on "cumulogranite" is a redirect to "controlled flight into terrain" 14:30:16 wait, you aren't busy using real words again to describe something vaguely related? 14:30:49 ais523: I'm just in love with that word 14:30:59 fair enough 14:31:03 kilobyte: by the way, I was wondering what you thought about possibilities for felid extra life nerfing 14:31:05 ideally, though, you wouldn't actually /use/ it 14:32:51 possibility 1: blink instead of teleport, revive at partial (~half) HP and MP, maybe slowed and exhausted for some duration also (idea is that returning to the land of the living is a struggle, not something effortless that leaves you at perfect health... and you aren't your ordinary self until you've had a chance to rest a bit) 14:33:10 I've been testing stuff along these lines and it feels okay, but I'm not sure 14:33:22 elliptic: losing a level would be an option, but the balance would have to be restored somehow 14:33:43 possibility 2: galehar suggested dropping all items (and still teleporting to safety as currently) 14:34:07 I'm not sure what I think about this... it makes sense but I'm not sure it would actually achieve that much 14:34:39 win rates among players of decent skill are at about the right place 14:34:42 kilobyte: I'm not a fan of permanent drains like losing an XL (which is not really that relevant usually) 14:34:56 the problem is it being too good for top players, and too weak for weak ones 14:35:03 kilobyte: right, for balance I'd like to combine a nerf of this form with reverting some of the apt nerfs 14:35:38 since the apts are frankly quite bad now and poor players don't like dealing with this 14:35:48 you using the word "teleport" means I failed to get enough of theme in 14:35:56 I just meant the effect 14:36:29 as opposed to staying in sight of the corpse of your past life (which has appeal to me because you actually see it) 14:36:52 I wonder how to make it more clear that you really died and the new body is fresh 14:37:02 small distance would be ok 14:37:35 for corpse retrieval, I wanted this from the very start, but there are problems with the Abyss and portal vaults 14:38:03 some other places too, as it's likely your ring of levitation or what not is on the corpse 14:38:18 hm 14:38:30 would you have an idea how to work around this? 14:39:09 having to fight the monsters who killed you to retrieve your swag would have such a great thematic feel... 14:39:15 I'm not so worried about losing your stuff in the abyss... harsh, but it also sounds reasonable that it should work that way 14:39:35 your worry about getting stuck because of the ring of lev or whatever is trickier though 14:40:10 Crawl assumes pretty hard you never lose certain items once you obtained them: jewelry, rings, some misc stuff, ... 14:41:00 autopickup will ignore duplicates, acquirement won't get you new ones, etc 14:42:01 you could just stop felids using jewellry too, then the problem would mostly go away 14:42:14 as I said earlier, I'm unsure whether dropping your inventory would actually make it feel that much better anyway... felids aren't too likely to be carrying anything of great importance other than jewellery, and monsters don't touch that 14:42:33 and early game you might not even have jewellery (though consumables are more important then) 14:44:12 ais523: you need to have _some_ options for filling what you lack (resistances, ability to pass lava, etc) 14:45:01 kilobyte: ah, I've been playing too much NetHack, where there's rarely a shortage of creative methods to do that sort of thing 14:45:31 someone suggested a completely different approach, going against the theme I used: instead of doing it the way from mythology (real corpse) it could be videogame checkpointing: a complete rewind of the save to an earlier moment 14:45:47 -!- ophanim has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:54 that would be as or more powerful than the current method, probably 14:46:15 the start of the level or last real save would be the most obvious place to rewind to in terms of implementation, but probably suboptimal for gameplay 14:46:17 i favor rewinding 14:46:29 but only if we can preserve stuff like generated levels 14:46:39 so that people don't see a vault they don't like and die strategically 14:46:42 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:43 ais523: yeah... NetHack games I enjoyed most were stuff like ascending an unchanging green slime. Blind, slow, little hp, almost no damage, little carrying capacity, etc. 14:47:13 you did that? that's nicely impressive 14:47:19 tome actually has some time manipulation abilities. i strongly suggest trying them out 14:47:30 my TAS that I'm working on at the moment does that sort of thing all the time 14:49:59 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:15 Eronarn: to the contrary, knowing what vaults you'll get into in advance could be too good 14:50:59 kilobyte: independently of discussion of what to do when an extra life is used, is there any particular reason why extra lives aren't capped at the 8 you get from normal levelups? 14:51:50 kilobyte: yeah, no 14:52:04 being able to reroll a dlvl is much more powerful 14:52:15 I was rather surprised when I found out that you actually get more from post-XL 27 xp gain (and not just saved-up lives that you didn't have room for earlier) 14:52:34 that's mostly so you never get screwed if you're alive. You can recover from about any loss in general. 14:52:56 although, making the formula non-linear could be good 14:53:42 how are you getting screwed if you've already used up 8 extra lives :P 14:53:56 3,3,3,3,3,3,3,sudden stop doesn't sound good, 2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6 would work 14:54:03 capping it at 9 seems perfectly reasonable, yeah 14:54:08 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:15 your HP has a sudden stop also 14:54:30 there isn't anything else in crawl that gives you benefits from gaining XP beyond XL27 14:54:41 the same way as having bad luck in the Tomb doesn't mean you can't hunt for potions of healing and come back 14:55:21 there's nothing else other than throwing the orb into lava or abusing Borgnjor that is non-recoverable if you survive immediate downfall 14:55:46 uh, dropping runes into lava? 14:55:52 demonics 14:55:59 you can still win with demonic runes, sure, but you can win without extra lives 14:56:06 losing all your lives except one is recoverable 14:56:08 isn't that the whole reason demonic runes exist in the first place? 14:56:16 Game did not prompt for unwield of distortion because of shield (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4115) by Tenaya 14:56:22 yes, but my point is that it still makes the game harder 14:56:24 kilobyte: we will never know, but perhaps, yes 14:57:10 kilobyte: elliptic's point is that Fe would also work with just 3 lives, or 5, or 8 -- any number we see fit for balance. There is no need to hand out potentially infinite lives. 14:57:38 there's also no need to give spoilery benefits to increasing XP beyond XL27 14:58:05 9 total seems like plenty as well as fitting nicely into 27 levels and being thematic, yeah 14:58:12 speaking of losing runes... several days ago, we talked about goldifying runes. Points which were raised were: 1. runes should be displayed prominently, 2. some people want to show how many demonic runes their mighted naga can carry out of D:1 14:58:23 I wouldn't worry about 2 :P 14:58:33 what do you mean about "goldifying"? 14:58:40 also, ubernagas will find a way to show off no matter what you do 14:58:50 2 doesn't bring any real risk, you can just run from any semi-hard pan lord 14:59:08 they can show off how many Ziggurats they can do in a row 14:59:32 ais523: displayed on your character sheets but not droppable 14:59:40 2 is only useful in that it provides an upper bound for how many runes you can carry that isn't just a consequence of the world ending after 200m turns 15:00:14 kilobyte: ah, I see 15:00:38 elliptic: oh dear, do you think people would play the whole 200m in an attempt to hit the upper bound? 15:00:51 reasons for goldifying: 1. logs lose information about urunes, 2. new people don't know they will lose out if they don't lug the runes away, 3. a smart thing to do is to stash runes on D:1, which is spoilery and tedious 15:01:14 kilobyte: I'm not sure what you mean by "lose out" here 15:01:21 !lg * max=turns 15:01:22 1090234. joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr), slain by a giant ant on D:5 on 2010-12-26, with 154 points after 167116068 turns and 0:22:14. 15:01:36 AFAICT optimal play is to dump the runes (or sacrifice them to Nemelex) as soon as you unlock Zot, if all you care about is winning 15:01:41 and that's all a new person should care about 15:03:13 ais523: well, the actual upper bound would involve spending most of that 200m turns entering new pan levels on top of demonic runes and picking them up and getting to a portal to the next level in whatever the minimum number of sustainable turns for that would be 15:03:16 "lose out" as getting a lower score and having one's win displayed as a "worse" one in statistics 15:03:29 elliptic: indeed 15:03:45 but I can imagine players grinding 199m in an attempt to get as lucky as possible 15:03:59 kilobyte: well, would they care much about score? 15:04:18 I know that I see a 3-rune win as lazier/worse than a 0-rune win because it didn't bother to dump runes to free up a bit of encumberance space 15:04:26 15:58 <+kilobyte> speaking of losing runes... several days ago, we talked about goldifying runes. Points which were raised were: 1. runes should be displayed prominently, 2. some people want to show how many demonic runes their mighted naga can carry out of D:1 15:04:30 and am unsure of why it matters whether you're holding them or not 15:04:31 let's do it pokemon style 15:04:40 in pokemon, there's a Badge screen showing which ones you've earned 15:04:40 anyway, the only reason for the existence of multiple demonic runes I can think about is keeping the game winnable 15:04:41 and each one looks different 15:04:50 we can do them with cute ascii graphics 15:05:06 gotta catch them all 15:05:10 ais523: yeah, that's what I'm proposing: noting that you got the rune not that you lugged it out 15:05:27 i kinda like runes as tangible inventory objects but if there would be a good place to display them then having them just be an attribute sounds fine 15:05:40 that would make sense, I think 15:05:47 since yeah, it does have benefits that way 15:05:53 keeping the different flavour on the runes makes sense, thuogh 15:05:54 *though 15:06:04 perhaps have a runes screen that shows all the ones you've gathered 15:06:16 together with graphics in tiles mode, showing blank spaces for runes you don't have yet 15:06:22 ais523: yeah! 15:06:31 there is probably room on the % screen for them... maybe even we could find some space on the main screen 15:07:18 I'd say they should be somewhere that doesn't require pressing a key that nobody ever remembers about 15:07:24 huh, % has a 'page up' and 'page down' listed as available commands 15:07:28 never noticed that 15:07:56 yeah, lots of space at the bottom usually for mutations so that isn't needed 15:07:57 i'd say the bottom of % would be a good spot, anyway, then maybe it could actually scroll if needed 15:08:28 heck, there could even be an animation when you win... you'll get that runes screen with texts "gossamer rune" in appropriate colours sliding into place one by one 15:08:35 an option to use a line somewhere in the main display for it would be good too 15:08:47 one potential issue would be the Lair branch rotation 15:08:48 it only takes 15 characters, so just a half-line 15:09:06 as by showing which runes the player hadn't got yet, it would imply which branches existed 15:09:18 unless you made snake/swamp/shoals runes all the same shape and size, but different in apperance 15:09:20 on the main screen we wouldn't be able to use colours without undue distraction, though 15:09:28 ais523: empty place 15:09:44 yep, but the empty place should at least vaguely resemble the shape of the rune, I suppose 15:09:50 hmm, all the Lair branches start with S 15:09:56 i think another screen is the way to go 15:09:56 so it wouldn't be an issue in ASCII 15:09:57 kilobyte: true, it could be distracting there... but think of the spectators! :) 15:10:03 Showing rune count on main screen is not really necessary, but useful for spectators. 15:10:04 for example, here's how the vaults rune could look: 15:10:08 you could use darkgray for runes that weren't there, and white for runes that were 15:10:11 == == 15:10:11 \\ // 15:10:11 \\// 15:10:12 == 15:10:23 perhaps bright magenta for a few turns after obtaining them 15:10:38 people would *love* cutesy little ascii art runes that were a silhouette with question marks at first, and then filled in when you got them 15:10:52 ais523: darkgray . and colourful { :p 15:11:11 that'd be fine on a subscreen 15:11:16 but distracting on the mainscreen 15:11:34 besides, don't runes change through crazy colors at random? 15:11:48 btw, the Ctrl-O screen would work nicely... just write recolour branch names where you got the rune (from yellow to pink, say) 15:11:57 ais523: different colors for different runes 15:12:18 (note: after goldification, demonic runes are not necessary anymore) 15:12:23 but there are only 16 colors 15:12:34 and black you can't see, and darkgray you're using for not available 15:12:36 dpeg: I worry that ctrl-o and % aren't visible enough 15:12:44 not to mention that you'd need a bit more due to lair rotation 15:12:58 ais523: I meant different sets of colors... and I don't know whether they are actually distinct currently 15:13:07 dpeg: you'd better add another branch somewhere, in that case 15:13:11 or people won't be able to do 15-runers any more 15:13:15 they'd be stuck doing 14-runers 15:13:20 elliptic: I wouldn't. Every time you pick up a rune, we print: "You pick up the [foo] rune. Now you have 3 runes. Press [bar] for more." 15:13:21 and there would be a riot about that 15:13:34 or there could just be one demonic rune 15:13:37 ais523: I've seen worse riot among Crawlers 15:14:13 just one demonic rune is the way to go 15:14:14 MarvinPA: in that case, people would wonder why it wasn't with a unique panlord of its own 15:14:23 dpeg: maybe that could work if you display a row of all your runes every time you pick up a new one 15:14:29 or perhaps we should make a fifth unique panlord, or at least a unique level with a really scary randomized panlord 15:14:30 or a mob of them 15:14:45 what's scarier, Cerebov or fifteen random panlords? 15:14:46 it could only generate in one of the hard pan vaults that are currently guaranteed runes, or whatever 15:14:49 Now you have 3 runes: {{{ 15:15:01 ascii art is much cuter :( 15:15:23 There are plans for a holy pan level anyway. 15:15:43 I think keeping the current demonic rune setup and just not generating them after you get one would be fine 15:15:50 no reason to worry about that now at least 15:15:55 yes 15:16:54 Eronarn: you could do it both ways 15:16:58 elliptic: like abyssal? 15:17:02 yes 15:20:51 I'm still not sure how distracting having the runes changing colours on the main screen would be... and can't we just write off that distraction as a buff to extended endgame difficulty? ;P 15:21:38 elliptic: not a good idea, imo. I rely on the colour changes of HP/MP, for example. 15:22:43 yeah, I guess (though it would presumably be in the second column somewhere) 15:23:44 If we really think it is necessary on page one, there should be a "Runes: N" column, but I think that's a waste of space. 15:24:26 btw, the inventory could always have a final section of runes, only that you cannot select them 15:24:44 or that 15:24:57 Runes: N would just be a waste of space on the main panel, yeah 15:25:02 not sure about inventory 15:25:20 In any case, these visual aspects are really minor, the main question is whether we want runes gold-like or not. If so, there are many ways how to do it. 15:25:33 in AceHack, I made sure to have irrelevant or normal things grey, things that were relevant but might last a long time dark magenta or brown, and everything else other colors 15:25:46 so if something happens, you notice the color change of the bottom of the screen and it's important 15:26:01 I don't think I've ever run out of HP due to failure to monitor hitpoints there 15:26:26 (not that this is a problem in Crawl, where monitoring hitpoints is always important in battle because of the number of things that can one- or two-shot you) 15:29:04 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:56 in other news: Ubuntu's import freeze is on June 16, I'm going to cut a 0.8.1 on 10th. 15:38:15 yay 15:38:25 there were some delays with getting an upload accepted, and it's good to have some time to fix mistakes 15:39:21 no major bugfixes this time, but we still haven't fixed official binaries not working on win2k :( 15:39:43 note surprisingly low amount of complains about that 15:42:20 nobody's using the rubbish anymore 15:44:46 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:33 -!- Adeon is now known as MaryPoppins 15:55:39 elliptic: what do you think of current Ash? 15:55:45 (just watching you play) 15:56:08 current ash is definitely an improvement over 0.8 ash 15:56:13 the balance is a bit off though 15:56:25 too good? 15:56:39 skill boosts are too strong in early midgame, around the time you get max piety and max boundedness 15:56:50 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:02 elliptic: I was afraid of that.... my proposal was much more modest :) 15:57:10 elliptic: but that's something we can fix over time, right? 15:57:19 right, those numbers can be tweaked 15:57:59 galehar said today that he sees some other potential for improvement as well (making it smoother) 15:58:01 other comments: weapon cursing messing with butchering is much more of an issue now than it was in 0.8 15:58:30 the way the current formulas work means that each level of boundedness is really huge, so you really want that cursed weapon 15:59:04 I'm not sure I have a suggestion for what to do about this though :/ since I didn't like the "ash helps you butcher things with a mace" idea 15:59:39 also finding a buckler is more important than it should be 16:00:06 using a buckler is already a no-brainer with most chars... doubly so with ash 16:00:20 though using a two-handed weapon with ash might be interesting, I haven't tried that 16:00:27 elliptic: can also use a staff 16:00:29 most casters won't want the big weapon though 16:00:40 dpeg: staff + buckler is fine though 16:01:46 (also staves have butchery problems) 16:01:56 but wizards can get around that... 16:02:14 I really like the choices when/whether to change gear 16:02:21 this mostly, but not only, affects jewellery 16:02:24 only with animate skeleton really 16:02:37 IOOD :P 16:02:54 LRD and IOOD cause enough hunger and are hard enough to cast that they aren't really practical if your only concern is eating :) 16:03:06 blow up the sheepse! 16:03:45 elliptic: do you curse less-than-ideal items early on? 16:03:50 dpeg: yes, I like how the skill boosts give a benefit to cursing all your jewelry/armour... means more interesting choices 16:04:02 this current char bought a cursed -2 ring of dex, actually :) 16:04:11 yay, that's the spirit 16:05:12 partly I think that my criticisms about weapon/buckler cursing will be lessened if the formulas are changed so that overall boundedness level doesn't affect the stat boost so much 16:05:19 er, the skill boosts 16:05:24 so I like the concept of rewarding players for full cursage 16:06:06 so that having fully cursed jewellery would only matter for magic skills, for example? 16:06:23 right, I think they need to be more separated 16:06:31 so having that cursed buckler doesn't help your spellcasting so much 16:06:35 did you talk to galehar about it? 16:07:31 not yet... this is my first ash game since he nerfed the skill boost at low skills 16:07:36 and I wanted to try that out 16:07:40 but it is still overpowered 16:07:47 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:07:53 cool, do so once you've won (I just blew my Asher against Nikola :) 16:07:54 (though the progression at low skill levels is far better) 16:08:07 nikola is safely under an exclusion in a room in my game :) 16:08:14 I saw! 16:08:38 elliptic: did you reskill? Do you have some potential targets for reskilling? 16:09:15 oh, that's the other thing... I think reskilling could be safely reverted back to only costing 10% of transferred xp 16:09:33 ok, gotta tell galehar as well 16:09:38 since I basically never use it currently, with it costing 20% of transferred xp and messing with my skill boosts if I use it twice in a row 16:10:08 and reskilling to fighting seems fine to me with the fighting nerf, so I'd suggest enabling that as well 16:10:18 I like the HP changes so far, by the way 16:10:23 yes, would be nice to get rid of that glaring asymmetry 16:10:29 yes, they seem good to me 16:10:45 I supported (on wiki) to not mention the innate Hp mutations on A screen, btw 16:11:01 not that it matters much, but I think it's not necessary and distracts slightly 16:11:20 yeah, probably 16:11:40 portal: ossuary_due_cavern baddies are not woken up (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4116) by doublep 16:11:40 though something related to that is that frailness hurts low-HP races more than high-HP races currently 16:11:46 and I don't think that was really intended 16:12:10 that is, a felid (frail 4 naturally) will have its HP halved if it gets 3 more levels of frailness 16:12:24 elliptic: the perils of factors :) 16:12:49 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:06 !tell galehar Salut! Some results of a discussion about Ash with elliptic: (1) reskilling xp penalty can go back to 10%, we think. (2) Fighting can be included in reskilling, with the recent nerf. 16:13:06 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 16:13:18 whereas whoever has robust 2 naturally will just lose 25% of their HP from getting 3 levels of frailness 16:14:41 !tell galehar Lest we forget: elliptic thinks skill boost at low levels is still too good. Finally, what about making skill boost less dependent on full cursage (more/only on specific cursed gear)? See you! 16:14:44 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 16:15:19 !seen galehar 16:15:21 I last saw galehar at Wed Jun 8 12:08:40 2011 UTC (9h 6m 41s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 252 seconds. 16:15:32 okay, see you later 16:16:12 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:26:45 non-confused sky beast walks into a flame cloud only to die (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4117) by doublep 16:27:17 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:15 why do you put XL10 chars into abyss 16:29:22 instant kill is easier 16:31:41 xl10 can survive the abyss 16:32:11 of course! 16:32:23 in 1 of 99 cases - but you can! 16:34:27 oh, wait, let me guess... there is only 1 of 99 cases, where you are lucky enough to get cast into abyss at xl10 16:34:42 *sigh* 16:34:49 !lm * type=abyss.enter xl=10 god!=lugonu / lg:place=abyss 16:34:50 495 milestones for * (type=abyss.enter xl=10 god!=lugonu): N=349/495 (70.51%) 16:34:55 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 16:35:24 !lm * type=abyss.enter xl=20 god!=lugonu / lg:place=abyss 16:35:26 614 milestones for * (type=abyss.enter xl=20 god!=lugonu): N=76/614 (12.38%) 16:36:10 !lm * type=abyss.enter god!=lugonu s=xl / lg:place=abyss 16:36:16 4692/21257 milestones for * (type=abyss.enter god!=lugonu): 467/495x 1 [94.34%], 142/158x 5 [89.87%], 139/161x 2 [86.34%], 152/180x 4 [84.44%], 143/171x 6 [83.63%], 175/210x 3 [83.33%], 188/246x 8 [76.42%], 141/185x 7 [76.22%], 330/454x 9 [72.69%], 349/495x 10 [70.51%], 249/387x 11 [64.34%], 203/430x 12 [47.21%], 248/575x 13 [43.13%], 271/760x 14 [35.66%], 283/835x 15 [33.89%], 220/797x 16 [27.60%... 16:37:07 I wonder why L5 has a higher chance of dying in abyss than L2 16:37:19 more likely to have a god and not want to take lugonu? 16:37:32 !lm * type=abyss.enter god!=lugonu lg:god!=lugonu s=xl / lg:place=abyss 16:37:34 4643/20284 milestones for * (type=abyss.enter god!=lugonu lg:god!=lugonu): 140/144x 5 [97.22%], 465/479x 1 [97.08%], 136/146x 2 [93.15%], 172/188x 3 [91.49%], 151/166x 4 [90.96%], 142/158x 6 [89.87%], 139/168x 7 [82.74%], 186/225x 8 [82.67%], 327/432x 9 [75.69%], 345/462x 10 [74.68%], 248/365x 11 [67.95%], 202/392x 12 [51.53%], 245/535x 13 [45.79%], 269/713x 14 [37.73%], 282/788x 15 [35.79%], 218/... 16:37:46 no 16:38:09 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:53 btw, some asshole is spamming comments on the wordpress via botnet/tor.. i've disabled comments for now 16:39:00 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 16:56:55 PATCH: Remember monsters that move out of LOS in the square they exit to (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4118) by rriegs 17:03:02 18:02 < elliptic> nice, I just refrigerated mennas to red without him waking up 17:03:05 someone please remove this already 17:03:25 I've asked before and nobody could decide whether it was intentional that monsters can die of cold in their sleep 17:03:30 the justification for it is awful, it's spoiler-y, and it's bad design 17:04:01 elliptic: it's intentional but with a bad justification (that because it reduces temperature they just hibernate or whatever) 17:04:40 I don't feel particularly strongly about it one way or the other 17:08:51 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:08 -!- st_ has quit [] 17:48:39 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:44 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:12:12 03galehar * rd74043d0a24e 10/crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc: Default show_gold_turns to true in EUCLIDEAN mode. 18:12:18 03galehar * rf05068245128 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/help.txt: Change an example in the search help. 18:12:18 03galehar * r0e9bb7c81ed7 10/crawl-ref/source/stash.cc: Allow searching for portals. 18:12:19 03galehar * rceac2e3ae97f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/help.txt l_item.cc): Searching for ego will also return items which may be branded. 18:16:43 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:43 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:55 Eronarn: do you have a tile for seafood somewhere? It's not in your repository. 18:54:36 hm, should be 18:54:41 i've tested it out in tiles before 18:55:29 http://i51.tinypic.com/97vhpx.png 18:55:38 i'm not thrilled with the coloring, but i do like the actual structure of the body 18:55:47 wow, cloud generators are still broken? 18:55:52 and i have the source file if someone wants to work with it further 18:56:21 or are these 1x1 clouds intentional... possible I guess since I don't actually recognize the vault 19:00:25 Eronarn: there's no code to handle them... did you replace a human tile or something for tests? 19:01:33 elliptic: somehow lua calls big_cloud() asking for placing only 1 cloud... not sure why 19:02:54 kilobyte: no, i coded it - it probably got lost somewhere, since at one point i deleted and then remade the branch 19:03:14 i only play tiles when testing so i'd just assumed it had kept working 19:03:38 iirc adding a new one wasn't difficult at all but i don't remember exactly how to do it either 19:05:15 kilobyte: was this zot entry vault you added supposed to have a klown in it? (it doesn't seem to have one) 19:06:24 no, no monsters 19:06:56 ah, I pondered adding a randomized set, but failed to remove one line 19:07:41 right, I don't know vault syntax very well and didn't look at the commit that carefully originally so I thought it actually had the klown 19:24:22 currently metabolic englaciation doesn't give any messages to report on its success 19:24:26 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:50 you cast it and get no new messages, even if stuff falls asleep 19:56:18 03eronarn * r521b82c70ed0 10/crawl-ref/source/godpassive.cc: Ashenzari boundedness fix to take into account the new jewellery slots. 19:56:18 03eronarn * r6335113c39b1 10/crawl-ref/source/aptitudes.h: Revised octopode aptitudes. 19:56:21 03kilobyte * rc6a99e379066 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc items.cc output.cc player.cc): Reformat and slightly sanitize. 19:56:21 03eronarn * rb2a838ac3a44 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Only octopodes need to see more rings on the " screen. 19:56:21 03eronarn * rb7627524be37 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc misc.cc): Fix octopode crashes. 19:56:22 03kilobyte * r874c6a960614 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Fix another save compat break. 19:56:28 03eronarn * r7acf06a035b4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mutation-data.h player.cc): Camouflage mutation - it gives +40 stealth per level, and is (rarely) available via random mutation. 19:56:28 03eronarn * r3e9bffcb7f11 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Octopodes get rubbery body and camouflage mutations to make early game a bit more survivable. 19:56:28 03eronarn * r6ae1cd1c340e 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Minor fix to octopus text. 19:56:28 03kilobyte * raa117bdf5b41 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Show octopodes in tiles. 19:56:28 03kilobyte * rd50b75ead54d 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Disable octopodes in 0.9 betas and later. 19:56:28 03kilobyte * r8b9cc337616c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_wpn.txt: A few randart names. 19:56:29 03kilobyte * ree91903484dd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (20 files in 2 dirs): s/SP_OCTOPUS/SP_OCTOPODE/, since that's the name visible to players. 19:56:29 03kilobyte * r37f1ca7500f4 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Use a mystical thing named "array" in a few places. 19:56:45 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:56:47 03eronarn * rec26fdcd61de 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Revisions to how the tentacles mutation works. 19:56:48 03kilobyte * r77cb9b0bacbe 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-player.txt player/base/octopode2.png): Add Eronarn's makeshift tile. 19:56:49 03kilobyte * ra8d1939ab39f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: No pure armour troves for octopodes. 19:56:51 03kilobyte * r14bdfeae18e4 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Say "Blade Tentacles" for stat death due to melding a randart. 19:56:51 03eronarn * rfa40992168fe 10/crawl-ref/source/species.cc: Fix octopodes showing up as 'B' glyph. 19:56:54 03eronarn * r3e5885c6325a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/monsters.txt enum.h mon-data.h): An octopus monster entry. 19:57:02 03eronarn * r18cd4ad363bf 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Actually let's make that squeeze instead of constrict. 19:57:07 mmmoctopodes :D 19:57:07 03kilobyte * r45b45888b7cd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-data.h species.cc): Rename the monster dummy "octopode" so player glyph redefinitions work. 19:57:19 03kilobyte * rccd101d06c3b 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Fix a save compat break. 19:58:40 yaaay <3 20:00:30 so are they just in the next trunk build then? i don't get the '.9 beta' thing, is that just to make them disable when we switch CDO over to .9 beta eventually? 20:02:25 0.9-a1: seafood. 0.9-a2: seafood. 0.9-b1: no risk of food poisoning. 0.9-b2: ditto. 0.9-rc1: still. 0.9.0: nada. 0.10-a0: prepare for stomach aches again. 20:02:43 ah, that's what i thought 20:02:57 people in ##crawl were confused by it 20:12:24 LuckyNed the Frost Mage (L13 DSIE) (Lair:8) 20:16:21 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:23 21:18 < i_am_mandler> hello everyone i just learned not to needle of paralyze->stab an unborn deep dwarf who decided to cast mirror damage right before being paralyzed and not tell me in big shiny bright letters, or even a windows warning popup 20:19:27 21:18 < i_am_mandler> 257 damage :< 20:20:13 cap it at the DD's HP, maybe? 20:21:11 yeah, that makes sense 20:23:56 !tell greensnark Safe to take down erocrawl for now, as OP have made it into trunk, and squarelos/LO are quite buggy for now. Thanks for putting it up in the first place. 20:23:58 Eronarn: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 20:25:16 squarelos wasn't that buggy :( still not much point in having erocrawl there now unless you want to turn it into serious squarelos testing, though 20:26:31 elliptic: it had some pretty major ones with some spells still 20:26:41 also no squarenado yet 20:27:00 I seem to remember that you didn't have cloud targetting working right, yeah 20:27:36 also explosions for some spells 20:27:52 lrd, probably the storms 20:41:48 03kilobyte * re1fc118c8258 10/crawl-ref/source/ (32 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'octopodes' 20:58:12 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:41 -!- st_ has quit [Client Quit] 21:10:06 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:06 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:00 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:50 -!- Rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:09 Tegga21 (L27 MuWz) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= 2 * mons->damage_total) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 782 failed. (Elf:5) 21:27:51 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:10 03dolorous * r9b4b6da3e866 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h player.cc): Add formatting fixes. 21:53:44 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:09 03dolorous * r3331009ba495 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Reorder mutations on next major compatibility break. 21:58:44 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:44 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:04 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:26 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:16 03dolorous * rae9a004dadb8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add formatting fix. 22:30:09 03dolorous * ra8f34e58fbfb 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation-data.h: Remove unneeded blank lines. 22:36:08 03dolorous * r8018eac8b8e7 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Remove unneeded brackets. 22:42:53 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 heading in Notes doesn't line up (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4119) by reid 23:00:57 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:01 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:12 03dolorous * r9ef4c0903b2e 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Remove unneeded blank line. 23:04:25 03dolorous * rf2f0b7b29377 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Tweak octopodes' mutations as listed on the "%" screen. 23:05:07 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:58 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:49 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:08 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:44 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:08 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]