00:02:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-313-gca43291 (32) 00:03:36 also good for corpse rot and hilariously convoluted shadow creatures 00:06:10 -!- OG17 has quit [] 00:06:37 maybe ensure better "quality" of corpses, since there are so few now? 00:07:00 previously a jelly fish (bug?) corpse wasn't so bad when there where 3 other useful corpses 00:07:07 Napkin: both large numbers of corpses, and few good corpses, have appeal 00:07:37 now, the single jelly fish makes me think if kiku wants me to slip on it... 00:08:48 elliptic: i remember those 2 changes where done in one commit - at least in one commit email 00:08:59 *were done 00:09:17 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:35 !lg . dene place=d:12 00:13:35 1. hyperbolic the Thanatomancer (L18 DENe), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, blasted by Zaenic (great blast of cold) on D:12 on 2011-03-15, with 183746 points after 24102 turns and 3:27:13. 00:13:55 napkin: ^^ that game was abusing the corpses in between the two changes 00:14:09 that's how I know that they were distinct :) 00:14:15 at the very least it should guarantee a minimum of 1 corpse, I think 00:14:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-313-gca43291 00:16:01 I think that whenever it would give one corpse, it should instead just give two or more corpses that are guaranteed to be small 00:19:45 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:44 talking about receive corpses? that needs to be fixed in tomb and elf as well as any other areas it's broken 00:33:02 there is that problem also, that it is tricky to decide what corpses it should give in some locations 00:33:26 well megabat corpses with 20 necro seems a bit unfair ;) 00:34:14 I think the old behaviour of receive corpses was better (that it depended wholly on invo skill/branch and you got a decent number of corpses) if it was fixed in those areas 00:35:02 elliptic: my suggestion was that we should have a full range of monsters regardless of branch; we could use this for corpses, but also for shadow creatures 00:35:34 so if you use it at very low skill/piety in zot, you get immature draconian corpses, for example 00:40:35 what if you could pray over a corpse to have kiku store it for you, and then when you used corpse delivery it just drew randomly from your stored corpses 00:42:58 no 01:10:30 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:23:41 is monster-trunk somewhere on git? 01:36:20 yes, Excedrin 01:36:33 check "Local Repository" link on main website 01:36:46 thanks 01:37:44 hill orcs: give them +1 or +2 invo 01:38:13 also, if we're making silver no longer affect undead, maybe we should make jellies and other formless/entropic beings count as chaotic 01:38:15 and then, make all hill orcs who don't start with a god start with beogh 01:38:19 no 01:38:44 eronarn is the lamest person 01:40:35 yes 01:44:04 for silver affecting jellies, would they be mindless enough to eat it and take extra damage from that? Or are jellies considered smart enough to not do that 01:45:28 evilmike: i think it might be nice to make silver be unable to be eaten by jellies 01:45:42 but if they can eat it, it should deal a ton of damage to them 01:45:47 and they shouldn't avoid doing it 01:46:19 either seems like it would work. I dont really know what the rules are (theme-wise) for jellies eating 01:46:30 other than that they cant eat indestructible thigns like runes and artefacts 01:47:13 silver being too pure to be consumed would be thematic 01:48:50 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:57 more stuff that jellies can't eat is a good thing 01:52:49 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:25 -!- Guest85572 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:43 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:09 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest91701 02:12:00 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:48 About silver stuff, is it only ammo that can be made of silver? 02:20:56 ther'es something else 02:20:58 but it slips my mind 02:23:08 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:23:56 Any reason for it? A silver randart ould be neat. 02:24:18 Cause it feels like an underused mechanic atm. 02:24:29 Though it might be too niche, like Orc Slaying. 02:25:20 silve rhammer, possibly? 02:26:09 due: unrand but yeah. 02:26:10 :) 02:26:46 I guess the spell doesn't give the silver brand? 02:27:14 assuming the spell wasn't removed from the game yet 02:32:29 moin 02:34:11 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:09 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 03:43:36 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:04:00 -!- evilmike has quit [] 05:11:28 Napkin: do you happen to know if DGL uses the local timezone in its chroot? 05:20:59 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:40 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:10 -!- Guest91701 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:06 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:10 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest32292 05:46:52 -!- Guest32292 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:35 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:49:14 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:14 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:49:33 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:29 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:36 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:21 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:22 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:10:05 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:11:25 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:33 WebTiles: small graphical error with spellbooks on ground (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4085) by Medar 06:24:06 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 06:24:58 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:59 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:25:16 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 06:33:40 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:34:41 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:54 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:39:47 -!- galehar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:01 kilobyte: test it via char dump 06:42:05 kilobyte: a bit busy at work today 06:57:53 would have to do it around midnight, since dump files contain only the date but not hour 06:59:16 this makes it impossible to tell whether a given morgue belongs to the tourney or not, without trying to match it with the logfile somehow (not trivial, times are often off, etc) 07:01:28 but anyway, weapons by skill: short blades 36, axes 18, long blades 18, maces 25, polearms 17, staves 2 + 23 (enhancers, usually not for combat) 07:05:31 what are those numbers? 07:08:52 among people who won during the tourney (ok, or started on May 13 and won after the start, I have troubles determining that), the class of the wielded weapon 07:12:30 I'd have to parse the skills to be able to tell weapons wielded for resists or staves for spell power/channeling/food 07:14:13 something totally puzzling to me: not a single short blade of speed other than two cutlasses 07:15:08 kilobyte: No unarmed? 07:15:13 other weapons of speed include 4 ones obviously taken from hell knights (removed in 0.9) and randarts 07:16:05 rax: I searched for " (weapon)" then weeded away character notes, lemme count unarmeds 07:17:02 20 unarmed 07:17:11 kilobyte: why puzzling? they were nerfed :P 07:17:45 and as again, this is only "no wielded weapon when ascending", not looking at skills 07:19:07 Eronarn: by a tiny amount, speed is still the best brand (not counting pain in midgame) 07:22:27 the best death ever: 07:22:30 !lg Elynae sprint ktyp=stupidity -log 07:22:30 2. Elynae, XL10 KoBe, T:669: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.8/Elynae/morgue-Elynae-20110526-150300.txt 07:23:36 that kind of death is pretty common in sprint 1 because there is hardly any food and you may have to try past the eyes to get a food shop 07:23:43 too luck based 07:23:45 teleported by Sonja into the middle of shining and giant eyes. The mutations she got while paralyzed are... epic. 07:24:48 kobold, so food is not a pressing issue 07:28:52 it is in sprint 07:30:27 kilobyte: sbl of speed was already a bit dicey previously 07:30:35 you really wanted slaying for endgame 07:31:27 it doesn't matter if it's the best brand if it's still not going to be viable 07:32:30 there were 11 quick blades of mostly stabbing 07:33:10 that makes sense to me... sbl of speed was already not that much better than a vorp quickblade, and quickblades are much cooler 07:34:22 1 anti-magic from Trog, 2 affixed (flaming, draining), 4 of nothing, 4 of stabbing. No randarts. 07:36:21 QB of stabbing does 5.625 effective damage, sabre of speed 6.3 07:36:46 both have the same speed so slaying works the same 07:37:31 you would of course want a quick blade for Kiku's or Lugonu's blessing, but no one did that during the tourney 07:41:28 or, read another way, they're not even a full point of damage apart? :P 07:44:39 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:48 among numbers around 6, what would you expect? 07:45:49 12% difference, and sabres of speed are a dime a dozen in Orc and Elf 07:48:37 kilobyte: as a viable weapon short blades of speed were made pretty bad 07:49:07 given the okawaru + sbl nerf and also the speed weapon nerf it isn't surprising they became unpopular 07:49:42 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:39 the speed weapon nerf hit the wrong targets (short blades) and affected exec axes of speed much less, which were the broken weapons. It just seemed a bit of an odd direction to go in 08:03:07 er, "short blade nerf"??? 08:03:52 then how come they see twice as much use as axes, the previous default weapon type? 08:05:14 short blades are precisely the target that needs nerfage, and plenty of it 08:05:22 (after Trog, of course) 08:05:50 no the use of okawaru with short blade nerf 08:06:02 ie the two combo much less well than previously 08:06:50 sbl see twice as much use as axes because they require low skill to use and train fighting with while you cast spells 08:07:04 axes conversely need high skill to use and so are much worse 08:07:09 for this purpose 08:09:30 if so, we'd see lajatangs being used as they require just as much skill for mindelay as sabres do, yet do twice the damage 08:09:59 low availability yeah, but there'd be _some_ lajatangs among winners, and there is none 08:12:37 well no 08:12:55 lajatangs basically a) require finding a lajatang and b) forgoing the use of a buckler 08:45:34 crashes on first move after loading appended savefile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4086) by HittenRunner 08:46:38 !seen elliptic 08:46:39 I last saw elliptic at Wed Jun 1 07:12:00 2011 UTC (6h 34m 38s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 240 seconds. 08:48:47 I've compared the max damage for wands with new formula. I don't think it's necessary to special case the low tier wands. 08:58:20 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:40 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:06:15 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:12 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:12 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:56 galehar, yay! less special case! 09:17:56 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:18:01 !messages 09:18:02 (1/1) kilobyte said (3d 18h 55m 29s ago): 53f40df84 fixes a frequent crash. If you'd want to merge current trunk in, you can rebase onto it instead cherry-picking it. (Not sure if you prefer rerere or merge commits) 09:18:23 kilobyte, :) thanks 09:19:19 kilobyte, what would be the difference between a rebase and the merge? rebase rewinds commits, updates, then tries to apply all commits on top, correct? 09:22:00 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:14 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:24:53 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:09 -!- ais523 has quit [Excess Flood] 09:27:15 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:44 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:49 Treat Kraken tentacles as targets (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4087) by XuaXua 09:34:45 -!- ais523 has quit [Excess Flood] 09:37:12 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:15 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 09:39:39 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:39 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:04 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:43:39 -!- ais523 has quit [Excess Flood] 09:46:04 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:05 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:21 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:10 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:47 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:44 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:26:36 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:11 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:43:20 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:21 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:23 -!- petete has left ##crawl-dev 11:57:02 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:25 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:06:57 Can't search for item types (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4088) by petete 13:12:25 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:25 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:15 03elliptic * r44ce07c9e3d4 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix HP gain on levelup. 14:21:12 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:00 -!- ophanim1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:13 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:02:08 edlothiol: is there a workaround for the "Websockets connection was closed" bug? 15:02:38 are you still experiencing that? which browser are you using? 15:02:48 aurora 6 15:03:19 ah... that implements a newer, incompatible websockets version 15:03:40 which is currently not supported by the server, sorry :/ 15:03:41 ah 15:03:43 no prob 15:04:18 curious why they'd be implementing new versions of websockets, have any new standards been drawn up? 15:05:55 the old one had security bugs, IIRC 15:06:10 well the websockets standard is still in development ;) the protocol version 07, which is implemented in aurora 6, doesn't have the security problems of the older versions, among other things 15:06:26 oh cool, I wasn't aware there was a secure standard :) 15:07:23 also, would it be possible to keep you logged into webtiles via cookies? 15:07:25 I don't think websockets over tls are affected by the security problems anyway, but it's nice nonetheless 15:07:48 yes, that is actually already implemented 15:07:59 aurora as in firefox? 15:08:54 yeah 15:09:11 edlothiol: persistent login doesn't appear to be working for me, using chrome 15:09:24 yes, the server doesn't yet run that version 15:10:45 by the way, I absolutely adore the webtiles chat window 15:11:02 so much better than using m and : 15:13:30 yeah, although that encourages chats between spectators and people just asking questions from random players, which I'm not sure is a good thing ;) 15:18:44 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:24 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:05 !seen elliptic 15:30:22 galehar: hi 15:30:28 hi :) 15:30:41 I last saw elliptic at Wed Jun 1 20:09:35 2011 UTC (20m 59s ago) saying xomikee on ##crawl. 15:31:01 I've compared damage with the new evocations formula 15:31:19 https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdDZGRDhsOE4wWXZiMnB5b0g4MVN5WFE&hl=en_US&authkey=CO-NhcEJ#gid=2 15:31:33 I'm not sure it's necessary to special case low tier wands 15:31:38 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:20 if the nerf is to harsh, we can use 20 + evoc * 2.5 instead of 15, but having 2 formulas is not worth it. 15:37:00 hm, okay, we can use the high tier formula for all wands I guess 15:45:22 fine 15:46:07 03galehar * rb275677f0eba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc spl-book.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Boost the effect of evocations on wands and rods. 15:51:05 have you checked the damage for bolt of inacc, by the way? 15:51:23 no, I forgot that 15:52:07 03galehar * rcf927a99bfc7 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Remove some potions from the good items category (cyan). 15:52:24 it's 12d10 at max power currently, nice 15:52:27 max evoc rather 15:52:33 (before galehar's change) 15:53:10 rod power is almost tripled at max evoc, so this is gonna be insane :) 15:53:31 haha 15:57:23 i make it 12d14 at max evoc now 15:57:38 thanks 15:58:35 it could probably do with doing less damage than before anyway 15:58:59 then nerf it more! :) 15:59:05 it's ZAP_BEAM_OF_ENERGY, right? 15:59:08 yeah 15:59:09 what's the change for no skill? 15:59:18 if any 15:59:38 for inacc or for wand/rod power? 15:59:45 the latter 15:59:59 wands 30 -> 15 16:00:03 rod unchanged 16:28:09 03MarvinPA * rd2ad0047eca1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/snake.des: Adjust some Snake ends to make them less easy to dig into 16:28:19 03MarvinPA * r06c34b9bf992 10/crawl-ref/source/zap-data.h: Reduce Bolt of Inaccuracy damage 16:41:40 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:38 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:59 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:00 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 17:24:00 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:52 hey -- where can I find wandering monster behavior? 17:25:27 mon-behv.cc and mon-act.cc 17:25:39 thanks 17:25:50 BEH_WANDER 17:26:14 I guess the more general question is this: Are wandering monsters exploring with a random walk? 17:27:43 hmm. There's some randomness involved of course. 17:30:23 check_wander_target() in mon-movetarget.cc 17:30:30 seems to be very random 17:32:38 ok, I'll look at this more in depth once I make the abyss good 17:35:13 XXX = this is bad? 17:35:38 means it should be fix 17:35:41 ah 17:35:51 we might be able to get better wander behavior from a Levy Flight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levy_flight) 17:35:51 like TODO or FIXME 17:36:40 well, the comments are begging for improvement, so go ahead :) 17:37:20 still coding the new abyss? 17:37:34 yeah. I really don't like the morphing behavior I implemented 17:37:39 and I'm having a little trouble with masks 17:38:02 ok 17:38:04 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:11 hope you figure it out, this looks promising :) 17:38:26 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:26 galehar: the issue is mostly with vaults. The abyss mask doesn't get persisted, so if I subtly morph the abyss often, I'm going to need to preserve that mask 17:42:00 should stasis effect abyss shifting at all? MarvinPA thinks no, I'm mostly in agreement with him 17:42:30 i'd like it not to affect lugonu's bend space ability either, personally 17:42:53 oh bleh. 17:43:17 but yeah, definitely shouldn't affect the abyss itself, that seems very thematically weird 17:43:53 it's past my bedtime, I'll try to look into these issues tomorrow 17:44:03 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:48:17 I have a stupid git question... I made a local commit, then pulled a few (unrelated) commits, so now locally the last commit is a merge commit... what will happen if I push? 17:50:23 You'll pusyh a merge into master. 17:50:25 Don't do that! 17:50:33 use git log to note the hash of the local commit 17:50:37 git reset --hard origin/master 17:50:41 then git cherry-pick 17:51:28 right, I thought that it would probably push a merge into master but wasn't sure of the best way to avoid that 17:51:33 there's a setting somewhere that has git automatically rebase your local commits whenever you pull 17:52:17 hm, i think it was in one of the many dev documentation files... 17:52:24 that is not as useful when merging branches, but yes, it does exist 17:52:42 ah, docs/develop/git/config.txt 17:53:42 ah, I missed that one 17:53:49 thanks due and MarvinPA :) 18:04:11 -!- gnsh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:58 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:16 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:09:24 hm, so now we have player petrification 18:10:15 we should give it to gila monsters as a gaze attack, and rename them basilisks or something (and maybe make them a bit rarer i guess) 18:10:22 for uncommitted changes, git stash before pulling, then git stash pop, iirc 18:10:51 also i quite liked the idea of vipers having a petrifying bite but i don't know how to thematically justify that 18:11:03 it would be cool if sphinxes cast petrification instead of paralysis 18:12:25 what does player petrification do? 18:12:38 you move slowly for a few turns while petrifying 18:12:48 then petrify (and take 1/3 damage) 18:13:15 it is a little strange because monsters don't really get very impressive stabs afaik 18:13:28 and the stabbing is what petrifying monsters is all about 18:13:50 (of course that's a bit weird itself) 18:14:16 right, you're still helpless and take a decent amount of damage though 18:14:28 I guess, yeah 18:14:39 how long is one petrified for? 18:15:10 hm, looks like 8 + random2(4) turns 18:15:56 that's quite a while i guess... but then again paralysis can be just as long 18:15:59 wow, that's a long time 18:16:09 I thought paralysis was 2-7 turns from most sources? 18:17:31 ah yeah, it is from the beam at least 18:19:30 ow, cboe is 2-3 turns and i still managed to get killed from full health with it :( 18:20:35 and zin wrath is 3-12, nasty 18:21:04 what about the miscast effect? 18:22:38 that uses potion_effect instead, hm 18:23:15 looks like 2-7 as well though 18:24:44 how about 6-9 for petrification? 18:34:04 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:09 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:48 -!- Zao is now known as WishPrime 18:48:58 -!- WishPrime is now known as Zao 19:03:27 6-9 sounds reasonable enough 19:23:48 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:11 -!- Excedrin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:17 -!- Excedrin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:39 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:09 -!- ophanim1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:16:59 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:19 it's not very good that I need to victory dance translocations in order to apport this random stuff from behind water 20:21:44 hell I have 4 and I still can't apport a staff 20:21:53 does it just fall in the water? 20:26:09 I think it's buggy actually 20:30:03 it's not, I had to stand a certain way so it had room to land 20:30:31 that still sounds pretty buggish, though 20:30:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:32:06 st_: why is it not good that you need a little power on apportation to get it to work long-distance? 20:32:30 because it makes you victory dance and we all hate victory dancing? 20:32:46 oh no, you need tloc skill to make the best use of tloc spells :P 20:33:07 by that argument you should be able to cast every spell in the game with no skill 20:34:28 not really, apport is a level 1 spell that only has small tactical use and no offensive use 20:34:47 this was just for the orb, why does it need to affect the rest of the game 20:36:54 so you want to be able to use apportation at effectively no cost except one spell levvel 20:37:10 well, you can... it just won't work as well 20:37:34 ... like we did before, and what was the problem with it besides the ninja stuff? 20:38:13 it's just making a convenience spell less convenient 20:38:37 -!- nonsensical has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:38:46 well, in general spell power having a noticeable effect on spell effectiveness is probably a good thing 20:38:49 it isn't just a convenience spell 20:39:05 you can use it to steal items from guardians in lots of vaults 20:39:53 or grab items more quickly when you are pressed for time (need to run from monsters, ninjaing runes, etc) 20:40:42 I'm sure the formula could use tweaking, but I don't think it is unreasonable to have dependence on spell power 20:41:10 right, I'm all for nerfing swagjacking but I don't know why it can't just be for that I guess 20:42:03 i.e. only for runes/orb 20:42:30 first it was for orb alone, now you are saying runes also... next is loot in vaults... 20:43:56 right, it was sort of an ugly exception for it just to work on the orb (even though it's easier to handwave away exceptions that just apply to the orb, i guess) 20:45:07 -!- nonsensical has joined ##crawl-dev 20:45:25 ideally i suppose it'd depend on spell power for everything but that effect would only be significantly noticeable when apporting orbs/runes/loot/whatever, surely casting it twice on one item in a safe situation isn't that big a deal? 20:46:19 how does it interact with water? 20:47:10 at the moment it doesn't move if you would apport it into water/lava 20:47:24 that could probably be improved, have items move up to the edge of the water but not into it 20:47:51 that's basically as ugly as only applying that rule to the orb :P 20:48:57 not really 20:50:07 well presumably it's just you as a caster deciding "actually i won't pull this item into lava after all" 20:51:48 anyway whatever. I can't understand the reason for it, I'm just bothered that it makes it more of a pain to use on a "normal" basis 20:51:57 not really sure why anybody with enough tloc skill to apport couldn't just blink across the water/lava and get the item manually, the exception seems a little meh 20:52:35 although if it brings the item to the edge that's good enough 20:52:49 I can understand* sorry 20:53:20 wensley: uh, what exception? 20:53:32 the water/lava exception 20:53:37 you realize that with enough power you can apport across water 20:53:54 there is no exception, it is just the game keeping you from destroying the item 20:55:17 st_: it might get better to play with with future formula tweaking 20:57:05 elliptic: it's an exception to the normal behavior of the spell, is what I was noting. I'm not so certain that the game should keep you from doing stupid things, it doesn't, for example, automatically recast levitation if you forget to refresh it over water 20:57:28 wensley: no it isn't 20:57:40 normal behavior would be to just pull it into the water 20:58:18 next you'll be saying that you should be allowed to walk into deep water and drown 20:58:25 with a prompt, sure 20:58:26 that would be normal behavior 21:00:20 you realize that it used to work like that 21:01:44 nope! before my time :) 21:01:57 vampiric draining vs demons/undead is another more recent example 21:02:18 does it just stop you now? 21:02:31 now, it is actually possible to think of a situation in which you would want to walk into deep water (for the chance to scramble onto a different square) 21:02:49 right, I've thought of that before :P 21:03:02 or a situation in which you would want to apport an item into lava (it is a wand and a monster is about to pick it up) 21:03:23 (fantastic though death by vampiric draining antaeus is) 21:03:24 or various other things that currently aren't allowed 21:04:00 but that doesn't mean we want to allow all of those, especially when the dangers of accidents are large 21:04:50 does vampiric draining on undead when you are undead work? 21:04:55 no 21:05:09 it aaaaaaaarghs you just the same 21:05:13 I wasn't aware that vampiric draining didn't allow you to drain demons/undead anymore, I thought its description still said that it damages you 21:05:30 it does, you can still vampiric drain invisible demons 21:05:32 it does damage you if you drain an invisible demon, I think 21:05:42 possibly it should just do nothing 21:06:13 though iirc n78291 died a couple months ago to VDing an shadow wraith a couple times thinking that it was an unseen horror 21:08:57 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:09:57 oh, here's a use for VDing undead/demons: power from pain or whatever that DS mut is called 21:10:18 heh 21:10:45 see, these are hilarious strategies that I'm sad have been eliminated :P 21:10:52 you can still do this by not wearing sInv and carrying a wand of invis with you to zig 21:10:59 hahaha 21:11:08 and you can cross water with scrambling by confusing yourself 21:11:27 i vaguely remember there being a fringe use for casting haste on yourself while wearing stasis that i came up with, before making it not let you do so anyway 21:11:40 oh no it was casting teleport self, you might want to try and miscast it for banishment 21:11:44 so really all we are doing is making the hilarious strategies more hilarious :P 21:11:55 I suppse this is correct :) 21:12:01 suppose 21:12:15 scrambling out of water is a legitimate strategy 21:12:22 see: nethack :P 21:17:14 one possibility with apportation across water/lava, by the way, is to make it stop on your side of the water instead of the other side 21:17:44 a little hard to justify but might be doable (air currents above the water/lava?) 21:18:34 implement buoyancy: items float for a single turn, giving you one chance to apport them before they sink :P 21:22:47 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:56 -!- cesium has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:03 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:42:17 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:40 Fish (electric eel) generated on land (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4089) by cesium 22:18:13 Hm, shouldn't happen. 22:18:59 the eel? maybe it was in a fountain and the player didn't realize? 22:19:03 yes 22:19:07 that's the comment I just posted :) 22:19:17 mmmeels in fountainds! 22:19:34 in that sense tiles is slightly more informative. 22:33:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:34 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:30 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:51:25 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:33 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:45 -!- Rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:14 Is it just me or does the the webtiles version keep dropping 23:14:01 Rejuxst: can you reproduce this? 23:17:36 ? 23:17:41 I mean 23:17:46 I guess it just did 23:17:59 the websockets connection keeps timing out 23:21:16 hmm, I tried it for a few minutes with no issues 23:21:19 what browser are you using? 23:22:05 Chrome could be my location 23:22:14 i should probably ping the server 23:37:55 it's probabbly just you