00:00:07 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:37 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-85-g0392d60 (32) 00:03:55 doy upon further research I have no idea how the menu class works for crawl so I am going to leave this alone until I understand the language much better 00:04:07 heh 00:04:13 yeah, the menu code is pretty incomprehensible 00:04:19 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:41 I was able to make it so that you could select all items in the \ list with keys like / ? " 00:04:50 but that was just changing one flag and I didn't get any further than that 00:04:51 haha 00:09:33 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:22 hmm 00:11:04 Is anything broken by racial stasis? 00:13:25 some manner of vault that has a non-teleport entrance but only a teleport exit, assuming the player hasn't got a method of wall-destruction yet? 00:14:32 escape hatches in Orc getting a bit riskier being one obvious thing, but that's sort of well-known. 00:16:43 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9-a1-85-g0392d60 00:17:55 i think there's an entry vault that you can only teleport out of 00:18:13 (with built-in teleport trap) 00:18:38 ah no it looks like it has a secret door too 00:18:54 there's an entry vault that requires getting hit by a dart of disperal 00:19:09 that has a hatch out now 00:19:20 and probably a secret door, i forget 00:19:43 yeah, secret doors also 00:19:48 oh, ok 00:21:49 also the abyss, maybe? if you have stasis i don't think it ever changes 00:22:00 (but it probably should do) 00:22:03 really? 00:22:13 yup, it seems sort of silly 00:22:29 yeah, that is 00:22:38 since it makes "tomb/dig a corridor and then wait with stasis on" a viable strategy for finding the abyssal rune 00:23:47 stasis could just not block abyss shifts, but still block teleporting while in the abyss, or something 00:24:03 yes, that's what it should do 00:24:05 I think the "abyss shifts" should get a message, really. 00:24:16 that's also probably true 00:24:36 the usual "Your surroundings suddenly look different" would work fine. 00:29:37 though it would lose the uniqueness of the Abyss Shift 00:30:52 i've done the "use stasis and wait 8000 turns" thing once, usually I just use it when I see the rune or an exit, to prevent shifting 00:31:21 I should also mention, I made a couple of abyss vaults with stasis in mind, they should probably be removed or seriously changed if the effect of stasis is changed 00:32:03 alternatively, vaults should shift with you 00:32:04 (: 00:32:10 that would work 00:32:35 hah. 00:33:03 with it in mind how, evilmike? 00:34:34 one of them requires wading through chaos clouds (which can paralyze you), and one or two others are a bit long (for the abyss) and can take a while to fight through 00:35:05 vaults shifting with you would be really cool 00:35:59 i think on the wiki there are some ideas for banishment etc where the bit of dungeon you're in shifts with you to the abyss, or something like that 00:45:51 that'd be neat if it applied to lugonu as well as some monster banishment 00:46:06 how so? 00:55:12 moin moin 00:55:14 Napkin: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:15:54 chei will not accept them, now to see if I can implement skimming. 01:23:06 also, kilobyte, you omitted CLOUD_MAGIC_TRAIL from _is_weak_cloud? 01:24:29 which is just Xom-effect on you and IOOD-trail; seems odd that it isn't considered weak. 01:24:41 [that is, cloud-overwritable] 01:55:59 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:41 downloads website updates: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads#debian 02:16:31 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:01 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 02:25:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:42 hi 02:25:51 hi bmh 02:27:28 !tell kilobyte I finally modified the downloads page to show info about the debian packages. let's see how often armel is downloaded, then let's base our decision on that. I could for example set up a separate vserver with just the weird armel cross-compile setup you mentioned. 02:27:30 Napkin: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:29:07 !tell kilobyte I need your help on making crawl-web accept and react to HUP signal, while the player is after death (checking inventory, looking at high-score list, etc). Currently it's ignored. I'd like to get that fixed before releasing webtiles to the public. 02:29:08 Napkin: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:29:30 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3931 That's a rather unfortunate place for a staircase. 02:30:47 i really need to add an info note for people to know that 
 tags work in the description
02:33:14  hm
02:35:42  what's the easiest way to deploy crawl to a server? Create a new user and set its shell to be the crawl binary?
02:36:05  depends - do you need user-management?
02:36:30  no, I just want to demo stuff to you folks
02:36:44  if you do like you suggested, people will have the choice of name and will see and have access to everybody else's savegames
02:37:18  I'm OK with that.
02:40:56  :)
02:42:32  note added to report issue page.
02:44:05  this might be a while, my outbound traffic is severely hobbled (60Kbit/s)
02:49:15  fr: for [abnormally]colored floors and walls, include color in their x description.
02:52:06  throw a bone to maximally-shiny TSO-worshipers, etc.
02:53:13  is a related FR: announce which pan lord it is when one of the 4 fixed ones
02:53:59  Well, it would also help with other vaults than those [and, could allow you to branch out from mere green crystal.]
03:05:17  I'm trying to build on Debian 5.0 and I'm getting a failure because it can't find get_wch. I have libcurses-dev installed
03:05:31  you need the unicode version of it
03:05:37  libncursesw-dev
03:06:00  great
03:07:06  Enemies killed using reflected attacks from shields of reflection don't give full EXP (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3941) by ledtim
03:08:16 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello]
03:14:16  Napkin: crawl@ch4n.org password crawl
03:14:26  play as an abyssal knight and run around for a while (or just regen the abyss in wiz mode)
03:14:39 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev
03:14:44  oh, i am non-dev
03:14:47  bmh, is that a worley noise abyss demo?
03:14:47 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:14:52  Zaba: yeah
03:14:58  you need to catch one of those dev guys in here :)
03:16:00  Zaba: I need to tweak the terrain alg a lot. I think I'm going to try it in processing rather than crawl because the development cycle is substantially shorter
03:16:43  hmm.. I guess I didn't set it up to allow for watching of games
03:17:04  processing?
03:17:53  Zaba: it's a java library/language aimed at art and rapid prototyping
03:18:06  uh oh
03:20:41  bmh, what exactly does using worley noise give us?
03:21:25  Zaba: I think the main benefit is coherence. I can make shallow water and deep water appear next to each other, but not lava
03:22:24  isn't part of the point of the Abyss the incoherence?
03:22:25  It also allows for easy tuning of the 'character' of the abyss -- open chambers or tight spaces
03:23:27  eternaljwh has a point :P
03:23:53  it could make for new interesting branch(es).
03:24:37  another advantage it gives us is that we can coherently warp the abyss
03:25:06  since I'm taking a 2d slice through 3-d noise, I can translate the slice plane and the abyss should morph rather than jump
03:26:27  eternaljwh: I agree that the Abyss should be incoherent on a larger scale, but I don't think it's effective on a smaller scale. At the moment we 1) select a set of allowable features, 2) uniformly sample from that feature vector as we fill in the map
03:27:02  It's nice to see pools of lava that are bigger than one tile.
03:27:33  and I agree, even if this isn't the best fit for the abyss, I'm sure we could find a use for noise-basis maps
03:29:54  Zaba: you didn't mention that it was crashing :-)
03:30:14  oh, yeah, and it was crashing.
03:30:43  weird. works fine on my local machine
03:33:00  did it at least leave you a core dump?
03:34:25  it's dying in the worley noise library call
03:34:49  trunk builds page now mention debian packages too http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/
03:35:34  hrm.. I'm not quite sure what's different about OSX and Debian5 in this case
03:37:15  how does it die?
03:38:27  with a segmentation fault in libc. I'm guessing that there's something wrong with my call to the worley function that's resulting in a memory corruption
03:38:55  I'll valgrind it
03:43:29  greensnark: help :)
03:44:25  Zaba: neat. It's a bug in the worley noise implementation.
03:44:42  which doesn't show up on os x for some reason?
03:44:53  yep. My laptop is 32-bit and my server is 64-bit!
03:44:57  well, weird stuff happens.
03:45:10  he rightshifts a pointer by 24 bits and indexes into a 256-element array with the result
03:45:48  uh.
03:45:54  yeah, that's kind of short-sighted :P
03:46:05  Zaba: to be fair, it was written in 1994.
03:46:11  oh, okay then
03:48:33  though to be even more fair, if you need to rely on the size of something, use a uintXX_t
03:49:19  and converting pointers to integers like that isn't really nice, either
03:50:19  but (u)int*_t are a relatively new addition to C, as far as I know
03:50:33  whereas 64-bit architectures existed even in 1994 :P
03:50:43  where's my uint128_t? ;-)
03:52:04  in C1x! :P
03:56:34  but what do you need it for?
03:56:49  random number generators
03:58:04  It's nice to be able to capturing the overflow when multiplying 64-bit values
03:58:15  %s/ing/e
03:59:38  overreaching regexp there ;)
04:00:09  eternaljwh: it's all on one line, it should only capture the first match
04:01:03 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev
04:09:13  I'll take your word for that.
04:09:15  hmm.
04:19:04  Where are env and env.grid() defined, for include purposes? my regexp/grep-fu is insufficient to locate it.
04:19:52  d'oh.
04:19:55  env.h
04:19:59  yes :P
04:20:34  to be fair there are a lot of source files and I'm tired :p
04:26:28 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
04:35:08  eternaljwh: it's about 3am in your part of the world?
04:35:42  about.
04:45:01  bleh. non-portable code. This worley code is totally fouled up on a 64-bit machine
04:45:31  and now losing momentum over lava or water drops you in properly. lessee how confusion works...though it looks like wizmode+abyss is inadequate for these purposes.
04:45:52  momentum from what?
04:46:54  I'm working on a player race that accelerates to running speeds rather than having a constant move speed; it gets bonuses at high speeds and some penalties if not moving.
04:47:40  what's it called? Geococcyx? (roadrunner)
04:48:23  don't really have a good name yet (though "velociraptor" was the punniest name for if I added saurian and/or bird traits)
04:48:50  you could make it a snail.
04:49:02  Cannot worship Cheibriados.
04:52:38  what a shame ;-)
04:53:45  starts with stasis, at higher speeds starts leaving a glowing trail, ability o skim over water, then lava, then just leaving a trail of fire everywhere at the highest.
04:54:27  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_(video_game) ?
04:55:07  This does kind of end up happening, because 90-degree turns are fine, but 135 or 180 are not.
04:56:55  I need to learn how mon-props work so I can reimplement the few variables as such and have various things work better (such as, importantly, saving momentum when you save)
04:57:21  how is momentum conveyed to the player?
05:00:11  Well, the part I just implemented with the skimming was "You accelerate" and "You decelerate" messages at each movespeed-breakpoint , with messages for beginning to be able to (or just simply beginning to) skim on water/lava; the glowing/fiery trail helps remind you where you were as a side-bonus (though managing to tie color to remaining duration would be good)
05:00:34  eternaljwh: the Lava Orc approach might be better
05:00:38  Also on the mutation-description screen, whether certain bits are grayed out.
05:01:01  Adding a velocity gauge like the LO temperature gauge?
05:01:18  a speedometer!
05:02:02  could just be a status light (Speed+, Speed++, Speed+++, whatever)
05:02:38  dunno, depends how many tiers of speed there are and how important they are to manage, i guess
05:02:57  There are also combat bonuses when you're going fast that are a lot finer-grained, so the gauge approach might be better.
05:03:42  also, doesn't this all grind to a halt when you actually have to fight things (ie when important stuff is actually happening)?
05:04:24  Yes.
05:07:15  You don't instantly go to 0 on attacking; the bonuses are significantly reduced if you attack to the side and you come to a screeching halt if you attack to the rear; but the damage and to-hit bonuses go high enough that diving is feasible if you keep your speed near maximum and don't run into a pack of monsters
05:08:40  sounds like an awful lot of interface kludge.
05:09:03  hmm, sounds problematic if it's ideal to manually explore in order to constantly have high momentum, for example
05:09:23  i think it's been said before but i guess i like the concept better as a transformation spell :P
05:09:30  That is a problem, yes.
05:14:14  presently the combat bonuses range from...(-1, -2) w/ 1.1 movetime to (+39, +79) w/ 0.2 [after 81 moves accelerating, though 0.2 is one move earlier] which, well, will need nerfing somehow. Probably increase base delay a tenth for the whole range.
05:14:46  Should probably get a heading indicator along with the speedometer to aid things
05:22:46  does debug imply wizard?
05:22:51  The trail lasting 3.0 turns gives a good sense of how fast you're going, at least in terms of the movespeed increments.
05:22:54  and yes
05:23:06  at least in terms of make options
05:23:09 -!- ghallber1 has joined ##crawl-dev
05:24:06 -!- ghallberg has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:36:50  taking down webtiles for upgrade
05:43:16  hooray for non-portable code
05:43:17 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
05:44:02 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev
05:44:02 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Please try out Tiles online at http://crawl.develz.org/webtiles | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
06:05:05 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev
06:09:47 -!- eternaljwh has quit [Quit: You fall into the programming rift!]
06:31:34 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:33:53 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev
06:34:55 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev
06:47:09  roguey_level strikes again.
06:49:13  this time with special rooms.
06:49:26  but at least I finally have confirmation of that they generate in real games...
07:01:15  roguey_level?
07:05:59  the roguey level layout
07:06:30  https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3931 is what it's generated
07:06:41  oh, that.
07:07:09  the occasional rooms with large quantities of free loot are also its fault
07:07:24  but normally it's pretty innocent and neat
07:08:37  this is rather vexing. The worley code is just choking on my 64-bit box
07:09:24  I've replaced all 'unsigned long' with 'uint32_t' and 'long' with 'int32_t' -- works fine in 32-bit, I'm getting memory corruptions in 64-bit
07:09:41  you've mentioned it worked with pointers as if they were integers
07:09:56  (which is akin to playing with fire in the first place)
07:10:15  I was actually mistaken there. The long it was truncating was an RNG output
07:10:21  It was wrong (for size reasons), but it wasn't a pointer
07:10:50  ah
07:12:58 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev
07:14:27  it's running on crawl@ch4n.org (passwd: crawl) if you want to see
07:14:52  start as an abyss knight, wizmode and regen the abyss
07:18:45  hmm
07:19:03  see the player glyph starting to jump around?
07:19:14  it's interesting
07:19:42  valgrind is coming up clean. I wish the darn thing would just segfault
07:20:27  strange distortion on the right edge
07:20:34  is that what you're referring to?
07:21:00  the effect I'm seeing is that the player glyph isn't staying centred
07:21:28  yeah
07:21:36  and the viewport lines are shifted left
07:21:53  to the point where the things that are shown don't correspond with the real map
07:22:08  why that happens is a good question.  But the abyss itself is very interesting
07:22:19  great!
07:22:25  I think that this kind of level generation has potential for abyss, let alone outside
07:22:51  oh, if you change your character level the abyss should get more or less dense
07:23:14  I'm not sure which is more hazardous.
07:23:26  A high density of lava is probably the worst case
07:23:42  I'm not an expert, but it seems like open levels are regarded as most dangerous
07:24:09  but getting cornered can also be nasty
07:24:25  bmh, regenerating abyss just now made it crash
07:24:32  great!
07:24:37  I'll check the log
07:24:57  Writing crash info to morgue/crash-bh-20110508-122418.txt
07:26:36  https://gist.github.com/961338
07:28:18  that says 'memory corruption' to me
07:28:41  umm
07:28:47  well, could be, I guess :P
07:29:05  nothing else produces errors this bizarre
07:29:51 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
07:43:54  in light of the "I accidentally turned the floor into altars" bug I hit yesterday, I'll try to put together an abyss vault where all floor tiles are either lugonu or xom altars
07:51:18 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev
08:49:39 -!- plaidman has quit [Quit: Page closed]
08:50:15  FIX: Crash in tiles, small species, missile tooltip (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3942) by plaidman
08:53:53 -!- plaidman has joined ##crawl-dev
09:06:09 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev
09:08:01  bmh: I'm moving your Terrain Generation wiki page inside the Abyss page.
09:10:25 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev
09:21:45  taking down webtiles for upgrade
09:30:08 -!- Snowclone has joined ##crawl-dev
09:32:00 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev
09:32:11 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:32:35  03jrtomsic * ra27fdb691f0d 10/crawl-ref/source/player-act.cc: Fix missile tooltip for small species in tiles
09:34:22 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev
09:47:02 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev
10:21:35  *** webtiles upgraded, now supports registering (yes, creates DGL account autmatically, too), only accessible via https now, slightly new style
10:21:53  galehar: https://tiles.crawl.develz.org did work for you from at work - right?
10:31:09 -!- OG17 has quit []
10:36:48 -!- lorimer has quit [Quit: Changing server]
10:46:19 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev
11:00:11 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:39:57 -!- Elynae has joined ##crawl-dev
11:39:59  !tell napkin I accidentally opened a terminal with my CDO Trunk save while it was opened in another terminal. I received the "stale Stone Soup Trunk processes" messages, so I closed both terminals and restarted. Again, I got the "stale Stone Soup Trunk processes" message, and after 10 seconds had passes, it still didn't open my save. Next time I tried, I received a message saying "Another game is already in progress using this save!" Even
11:40:00  20 minutes later, in which time I expected it to time out, I still receive the message. Do you know any possible solution? Thanks.
11:40:01  Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys!
11:40:02  whoops
11:40:09  *without !tell
11:41:12  Misc screens too tall (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3943) by Napkin
11:41:28  galehar: thanks. Didn't realize I'd messed up the namespac
11:41:28  e
11:42:51  kilobyte: I saw the display corruption. I think the noise lib is doing something weird. I'm going to rollback to a clean branch and isolate the noise better
11:46:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:47:59 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev]
11:51:15 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev
11:54:41 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev
11:55:39  Elynae: "this another game is in progress" should provide you with a question whether you want to kill it, doesn't it?
11:57:02  Elynae (L16 MuMo)  (Elf:3)
11:57:14  Napkin: It doesn't, no
11:57:18  Let me check agai
11:57:18  n
11:57:23  a 100% cpu game, killed it, Elynae
11:57:24  Napkin: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
11:57:28  how did you close those terminals?
11:57:34  sorry for sending you that message, didn't see you had answered
11:57:37  alt+f4
11:57:42  well
11:57:46  not the best choice
11:57:54  especially the one game that was running already
11:58:04  What would have been better?
11:58:16  better ctrl+s to properly save and end the game
11:58:29  and then normally closing the other one?
11:58:47  well, first off you didn't have to close your game
11:58:53  it was protected
11:58:58  okay
11:59:09  closing that second terminal would have been enough
11:59:09  thanks a lot for your help, it works again :)
11:59:29  always try to exit games by ending crawl properly - otherwise they might get stuck
11:59:35  no problem :)
11:59:56  also
11:59:58  I'll keep that in mind next time, wouldn't have been fun to lose that grindy and tedious mummy game
12:00:01  yes
12:00:05  if you ever get this stale message again
12:00:37  if you select to let the running game be killed, it'll do that by saving your game and ending crawl properly too
12:01:04  in which case it would have just thrown the first terminal back to the menu
12:01:20  hehe @ mummy game
12:06:21 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev
12:11:21  Should there be a HP cap for ghouls? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3944) by ledtim
12:26:56 -!- elderman has joined ##crawl-dev
12:30:13  Hello, I asked this question over on ##crawl and someone on that channel recommended I try my luck here. My computer lost power while I was playing.  When I started up again from the command line, and opened my save file, I got this error: save file corrupted -- invalid offset.  Anything to be done?
12:31:29  In fact, it was eith, who also seems to hang out on this channel.
12:31:35  yea
12:31:42  o/
12:33:15  kinda quiet here atm, might take awhile for a response
12:33:46  no problem, I'm in no hurry
12:52:20 -!- upsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:54:28 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev
13:02:07 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: I'm going to train my children to say sudo instead of please]
13:05:55 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev
13:07:19  edlothiol or Napkin: could I get the URL that is used to watch webtiles games? my computer crashed while I was the helmsman of a starship whose captain was determined by the winner of an amateur chessboxing tournament, and I lost all my IRC history
13:07:38  hehe, sure thing
13:07:47  already wondered then you timed out yesterday ;)
13:22:08 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev
13:43:36  Napkin: I just realized I might simply provide armel trunk builds targetted at squeeze libs.  This won't get us compatibility with old Ubuntus and other distributions older than squeeze, but at least the cross toolchain can be built without MAJOR hackery.
13:43:36  kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
13:44:06  sounds great
13:44:37  i gave the repository more publicity today
13:45:08  you reminded me, that it's still nowhere mentioned but on the release post
13:45:32  it's like to automate the trunk builds somehow, btw
13:45:42  it has armel builds already, they just take ~8 hours to build
13:45:45  to be as up to date as windows trunk builds
13:45:49  of course, on my TODO list
13:45:59  bah @ 8 hours
13:46:08  :D
13:47:35  ~2 hours on my box at home, but it is not always on.  Somehow qemu on Xeon is several times as slow as on Phenom 2, even though the latter is only a notch faster per core.
13:50:45  having architectures be out of sync is not an option: we'd need a separate Debian repository (or at least different "suites") since the data is arch:all and thus an outdated binary would be uninstallable
13:51:29  is there any tutorials online or with source on what setup you guys use to run crawl through a debugger?
13:52:50  plaidman: gdb works just fine, there is a trick you need to run it for console builds though
13:54:05  trick?
13:54:13  if you are debugging a crash or something that doesn't require alternating breakpoints/single-stepping and actual use of the game, you can just type "shell reset" on gdb's prompt to get it to restore the terminal to a sane state
13:54:26  well I'm trying to run it for windows/tiles. I'm coding with eclipse CDT, which might be the problem
13:54:32  ah, only vaguely a trick
13:54:33  (:
13:54:52  ah... I had no luck trying to gdb windows builds :(
14:08:59 -!- chexuma has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:15:05 -!- chexuma has joined ##crawl-dev
14:27:18 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev
14:35:29 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:05:27 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev
15:05:42  plaidman: I debug with eclipse just fine, both under windows and linux
15:06:10  Napkin: yes, I use this url to play webtiles from work. Works with ff4 but not chrome.
15:06:20  excellent
15:06:27  hmm I get an error when I try to run the debugger. using the command line GDB at the moment
15:07:16  The Royal Jelly was ported into its own treasure vault, unable to kill it (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3945) by slowcar
15:07:30  plaidman: Under windows, I do the compiling with mingw, editing and debugging with eclipse. I had to told it not to compile before debug.
15:09:32  I do/did all that too. I got some error message about a given parameter not being a proper executable. didn't really google what it meant, it was kinda vague
15:09:59  An internal error occurred during: "Launching crawl Default". Can't find resource for bundle java.util.PropertyResourceBundle, key AbstractCLaunchDelegate.Program_is_not_a_recognized_executable
15:17:07  I never had that. Sorry, no idea what could be wrong here.
15:21:29 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev
15:21:37 -!- syllogism- has quit []
15:25:22  I might play with it some more. until then it's guess/check debugging and command line GDB. YAY!
15:25:23 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:27:53  !seen galehar
15:27:54  I last saw galehar at Sun May  8 20:17:07 2011 UTC (10m 47s ago) saying I never had that. Sorry, no idea what could be wrong here. on ##crawl-dev.
15:28:11  Hi galehar! Great 0.9 post :)
15:28:38  hey
15:28:48  you mean the planning wiki page?
15:28:50  yes
15:29:29  Would you consider some of the non-0.8 topics "implementable"? It seems we can get some return if we mark them as such.
15:30:18  you mean non-0.9, right?
15:30:28  erm, yes
15:30:34  I am behind the times :)
15:30:46  Been thinking of the orb run specifically.
15:30:53  There are so many good ideas, many of them old...
15:30:57  Then yes. I've put them here because I think they should go in the game. But some hasn't really been discussed.
15:32:31  I could mention some uncontroversial ideas in the item?
15:32:46  Please do :)
15:33:00  okay
15:33:22  Try to focus on low coding / high gameplay effect ideas :)
15:34:28  yes, of course
15:34:49  do you know how to insert an url into Mantis?
15:35:15 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]]
15:35:30  In the toolbar, there's a button with a planet and a chain
15:36:13  not for me, but don't worry (I like chained planets :)
15:36:48  then [[http://blabla.com|link name]]
15:37:30  thank you!
15:39:16  btw, is it true that noises/stealth are broken?
15:39:52  from my tests, stealth seems to be working ok, but noises don't wake monsters. Or rarely.
15:43:22  yes, that fits what my DS got
15:43:28  !seen elliptic
15:43:29  I last saw elliptic at Thu May  5 16:44:19 2011 UTC (3d 3h 59m 9s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving.
15:43:36  oh, anything happened?
15:43:37  galehar: isn't that button/syntax for the wiki?
15:44:18  monqy: yes. Sorry dpeg didn't noticed you asked about mantis
15:44:28  so, no link in mantis AFAIK
15:44:59  Hi, a save file of mine got corrupted ("save file corrupted - invalid offset") when my computer crashed.  Is that save lost?  I tried asking on ##crawl, but eith sent me here.
15:46:29  galehar: did my elliptic announcement email make it to the team? I got no replies (been absent for the whole weekend)
15:47:08  Yes, I got it.
15:47:23  Seems like everyone is recovering from the 0.8 release.
15:48:02  Did I (or someone) alienate elliptic?
15:48:03  there has been few activity recently
15:48:16 * dpeg is a harmony addict.
15:48:28  I have no idea, I don't think I've talked with him since he made it into the team.
15:48:39  uh-oh
15:48:49  !seen due
15:48:52  And I'd like to because I need his input on the HP rebalance.
15:49:06  I last saw due at Sun May  8 03:25:18 2011 UTC (17h 23m 45s ago) saying also on ##crawl-dev.
15:54:27  due did make orb apportation harder, right?
15:55:21  yes he did
15:55:33  you need decent spell power to apport it
15:59:02  awesome
16:02:06  I like the proposal to make apporting not be an all-or-none process
16:02:44  bmh: it is, I think... may only apport some steps now
16:02:45  I'd personally like it if the orb apportation changes applied to all items
16:03:00  dpeg: that's only for the orb if I recall correctly
16:03:05  monqy: I'm with you there. Special cases are painful
16:04:22  03doy 07demons * r6cc63f9678c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): split abjuration into two spells, single target/los
16:04:40  ooh
16:05:06  that branch has the tier revamp in it already too, it just doesn't announce branch commits on the first push
16:05:54  mmm
16:06:29  doy: <3
16:06:34  deeeeeeemons
16:06:35  dpeg: How do you feel about the abyss corrupting over time? As in, it begins as a mostly-normal level and then descends into chaos?
16:06:55 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev
16:07:17  bmh: not sure if it makes much sense, because the Abyss should be what it is regardless of the player's existence (and in particular time spent there)
16:07:45  dpeg: fair. What about part of the map being banished along with the player?
16:08:10  dpeg: what are your thoughts on this - so far i've moved the weakest couple demons in tiers 1-3 down a tier, changed the summon spells to draw from 5 / 4, 3 / 2, 1 rather than 5 / 4, 3, 2 / 1, and split abjuration into abjuration (single smite target, l3) and mass abjuration (as before, but l7)
16:08:17  bmh: I actually had an idea like this for Lugono self-banishment (to make it non-instant)
16:08:18  dpeg: have you ever read/seen The Langoliers? the abyss could be like that :)
16:08:30  not sure it's worth the trouble, though
16:08:39  Eronarn: what is that? Movie, branch, book?
16:08:59  ack. How do I undo a git reset?
16:09:18  doy: I trust you
16:09:21  bmh: git reflog should have anything that you've committed
16:09:25 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:09:36  Eronarn: but I am afraid that no
16:09:47  doy: thanks
16:11:20  dpeg: book->movie. some people are on a plane, and they fly through a time rift. they're stuck in an instant that is 'used up', and whose energy is running down now that it's over - matches don't light, soda doesn't fizz
16:12:08  eventually, monsters show up to finish off the task of breaking it down :)
16:12:37  Orb run (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3946) by dpeg
16:12:50  so you could start the abyss as being exactly where you were, but with only you present - and the longer you stay there, the more stuff falls apart, becomes disordered, etc.
16:13:19  As I said, a lot of this could be done, but I am not sure if it's worth the trouble at this point.
16:13:47  Abyss does look distinct. It could use better layout, but I believe other abyssical changes are more important.
16:16:22  a rune vault seems like an important addition
16:16:31  we have some now, don't we
16:17:13  yes
16:18:04  I don't see a reason for the rune to ever appear outside of a vault
16:18:24 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
16:18:25  yes, probably true
16:20:26 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev
16:21:20  galehar: HP rebalance is pretty vital, but it should go in a totally different direction.  Every time moving hp from Fighting to base was discussed, there was consensus it is a good idea -- but you propose also making the skill-to-gains curve to make it even worse.
16:21:45  I mean, it is vital because of the no victory dance proposal.
16:22:54  training Fighting used to be tedious because it is hard to dance it effectively (most xp goes towards weapon skills), but once you can put 100% incoming xp into Fighting, that tedium is no more
16:23:22  putting 100% xp into fighting seems like it would make your character worse overall anyway
16:23:24 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev
16:23:28  not sure why you'd do that
16:24:13  if low skill gives hardly any benefits, the optimal way is a no-brainer: don't train any xp there AT ALL until your weapon skill meets mindelay, you get 14-18 armour, etc.  Then at one point turn everything off and shove all into Fighting.
16:24:15  also, still not sure why we're moving towards allowing players to control where 100% of their skill points go, rather than away from that
16:25:41  doy: we have 30ish skills with distinct patterns of usage.  It'd be practically impossible to come up with a way that cannot be gamed in some way -- and if such a way exists, it would most likely involve homogenizing skills.
16:26:06  well, this solution just seems to be "alright then, force everybody to game things"
16:26:58  it's like "fighting evil botters" like most games do.  We recognize bottable things and make them done by the game itself, like autoexplore.
16:27:30  no, because autoexplore doesn't require any mental effort
16:27:33  you just press a button
16:27:58  so there's no "gaming things" anymore -- Crawl can suggest you a direction to put XP into but allow redirecting that without tedium
16:28:13  so why should training skills require effort?
16:30:21  03doy 07demons * rcaa05f85f231 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files in 5 dirs): blue death -> blizzard demon
16:30:48  there is gaming things now, because now the "optimal way" that you keep talking about is going to involve constantly toggling different things on and off on the manual skill screen
16:30:57  i don't see how this is an improvement
16:31:24  doy: the current situation is not ideal -- you agree?
16:31:35  dpeg: yes
16:31:38  I'd like to have a better solution than manual choice, but I am not aware of one.
16:31:45  but there are several different directions to go in
16:31:54  the current "optimal way" is to spend most of the game time casting the same spell over and over, then resting mana
16:31:57  and i'd rather not go in a direction that makes things worse
16:32:11  kilobyte: already agreed that the current situation isn't great either
16:32:12  doy: could you name one of those different directions?
16:32:14  that's not the point
16:32:16 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:32:19  doy: the proposal will not be too much work. If something better comes along, we can use it. But what could it be?
16:32:43  because, say, redirecting only 50% xp means you still need to victory dance the remaining 50%
16:32:55  for instance, keep the pool, but stop allowing xp to go from the pool to skills unless you are still gaining xp
16:33:16  (there are obvious issues there, but just as an example)
16:33:57  i would rather give everybody less control over where their skill points go, than give everybody control over where 100% of their skill points go
16:34:04  and especially with galehar's easier interface, it is strictly better than current state.  "Strictly" because you can victory dance if you really feel like it.
16:34:18  no, it isn't strictly better
16:34:32  because it opens up the opportunity for *more* gaming of the system than is allowed currently
16:34:32  doy: your "less control" means "more tedious gaming it"
16:34:49  your "more control" means "more opportunities to game it"
16:35:07  you already can game it all the way you want
16:35:07  hi
16:35:13  no, you can't
16:35:16  due: meow!
16:35:25  how is it more opportunities to game it? as it currently stands you can get nearly all your xp into a skill if your careful and tedious about it, why not just let it be that way
16:35:26  doy: just victory dance after every single fight.
16:35:52  doy: it does make a huge difference for some chars, too.  And is not fun.
16:36:05 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev
16:36:10  kilobyte: this manual allocation doesn't sound like fun either
16:38:33  kilobyte: I took your comments into account and have modified the noise function to be more "abyssy"
16:38:52  also: i can see a casual player doing some minor amount of victory dancing
16:39:07  i can't really see a casual player fiddling with the skill screen to any extent
16:39:21  bmh: great!  Is the display still corrupted?  I have a hunch about possible causes if it is.
16:39:33  the interface does matter, and victory dancing is at least an intuitive interface
16:39:34  kilobyte: on 64-bit machines it is corrupted.
16:39:51  doy: manual mode won't be mandatory. There will still be automatic mode, and will be still be the default.
16:39:56  galehar: i know
16:40:00  doy: victory dancing is not intuitive at all, we have to explain the pool and dancing to people every day
16:40:10  sigh
16:40:12  by the way, i think that we should look into whether we need more demon names than fiend, demon, devil
16:40:15 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev
16:40:20  it's rather repetitive already, and if we're shifting the deaths over too...
16:40:22  doy: the casual player will not touch the controls and have exactly what you have now (just with the xp allocated instantly and the pool hidden since knowing it is needed only for gaming it)
16:40:26  alright, i'm pretty tired of arguing about this
16:40:28  whatever
16:40:56  are blue deaths getting a cold theme?
16:40:58  doy: not-using the m screen should work in the future just as it works now
16:41:10  Eronarn: go the Christian way and use names of all foreign gods as devils :p
16:41:11  kilobyte: what's your hypothesis? I think the Worley code is just sloppily written and is smashing something on the stack
16:41:11  please no cold theme for blue deaths
16:41:13  the question is how the dedicated player gets to allot her xp
16:41:35  we already have ice fiends and ice devils
16:41:42  yes
16:41:46  OG17: i suggested simulacrum instead of shadow creatures, and a turn into a blizzard ability instead of lbolt
16:41:52  bmh: I think it produces illegal feature values... since that tends to have similar results
16:42:18  due: we usually go with ice = white
16:42:29  due: blue deaths already get a cold attack and are rF-
16:42:34  bmh: it's only a hunch without even looking at the code
16:42:35  why not go with elec, there's already cold demons and barely anything uses elec
16:42:42  kilobyte: https://gist.github.com/961712
16:42:46  bmh: solely coming from my memory of similar bugs
16:42:55  OG17: because the elec spells available sort of suck
16:42:57  Eronarn: i didn't give them simulacrum, since that's not a monster spell yet, and i'm lazy
16:43:13  i just went with lightning bolt / freezing cloud / air strike / bolt of cold for nw
16:43:17  terrain_elements is being populated by an unmodified _pick_abyss_terrain_elements()
16:43:25  can always tweak it later
16:43:31  @??blue death
16:43:31  Blue Death (021) | Speed: 11 | HD: 12 | Health: 46-86 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 20, 20 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(144), 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 1526 | Sp: b.lightning (3d18), b.cold (3d21), shadow creatures, teleport other.
16:43:33  give loros airstrike :(
16:43:47  Eronarn: all the more reason to lose bolt of cold then
16:43:52  well, Shadow Creatures make it a pretty distinct demon
16:43:54  could make new elec spells/monster spells
16:44:04  OG17: of course
16:44:13  OG17: sure, i don't actually have any spell ideas that would be suitable for them though
16:44:16  kilobyte: vaguely
16:44:22  a yet another conjurer is kind of meh
16:44:45  kilobyte: i think a shadow creatures demon would be cool but i'd rather see it have illusion-y/misleading-y abilities otherwise
16:44:46  there's that too
16:44:59  Eronarn: not a bad idea
16:45:10  by the way, for players this spell is totally broken
16:45:11  (also shadow creatures shouldn't make like 9 ancient liches at once)
16:45:11  make lorocyproca the shadow creature demon
16:45:24  doy: nobody likes invisible summoners
16:45:26  yeah...
16:45:39  doy: too big spell for too small a demon
16:45:56  @??lorocyproca
16:45:56  kilobyte: if we fixed shadow creatures so it worked properly (i.e., summoned only one thing) it would be less bad :P
16:45:56  Lorocyproca (022) | Speed: 9 | HD: 12 | Health: 48-86 | AC/EV: 10/12 | Damage: 25, 25 | Flags: 05demonic, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(112), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 501.
16:46:07  kilobyte: here's a possible cause. The worley function generates unsigned values for cell id. half of them are going to be negative when they get cast into signed integers
16:46:18  for players, it is mostly meh, but it absolutely trivializes Zot if you can even barely cast it
16:46:19  just as big of a demon as blue death
16:46:26  other than the spell list
16:46:38  also, blue deaths are tier 2 on my branch too
16:46:40  dpeg: We could make it harder to apport items through monsters
16:47:10  shrug
16:47:16  kilobyte: perhaps the creature summoned should be based on power as well as depth - casting it at very high power in a low area yields OODs for that area, rather than rats
16:47:30  the branch is in the repository, go with it
16:47:30  doy: total tier overhaul++?
16:47:34  last game I got TWO FREAKING ORBS OF FIRE and some other monsters in a single cast
16:47:41  be nice if kiku corpses were fixed with that
16:47:48  that too
16:48:02  there's also the option of, for all branches, having a wide range of monster powers
16:48:07  so zot has immature draconians and such
16:48:16 -!- elderman has left ##crawl-dev
16:48:19  and just not normally spawning the too-weak or too-strong monsters
16:48:30  you can't really show that with glyphs
16:48:33  that might be more flavorful
16:48:42  @??draconian
16:48:42  draconian (07d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 19-108 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(9) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 549.
16:48:48  @??blue draconian
16:48:48  unknown monster: "blue draconian"
16:48:52  and had 10 summ, victory danced from 0 on V:8 and when half-diving through Zot
16:48:59  There's no reason why we can't make coloured base draconians.
16:49:10  @??black draconian
16:49:11  black draconian (02d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 82-116 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1601 | Sp: b.lightning (3d19).
16:49:15  Oh.
16:49:18  No blue draconian?
16:49:20  nope
16:49:28  too much blue death
16:49:36  due: do immature dracs become draconians when they rise to HD 5?
16:49:41  er
16:49:41  7
16:49:44  because they totally should
16:50:08  Eronarn: they are shapeshifters
16:50:16  kilobyte: you can get a real one with poly
16:50:35  oh, another thing to consider with shadow creatures: we could make them have but a small fraction of the normal creature's HP
16:50:49  let's remove that, there are no immature draconians at that power level
16:51:14  what power level
16:51:21  HD7, I presume
16:51:25  black draconians are HD14
16:51:28  I mean, difficulty
16:51:29  shadow creatures is basically ripped off of D&D shadow magic, anyways - the way that works is it's only X% 'real' (does less damage, has less HP)
16:51:32  base draconians are hd5
16:51:40  comparing them to a player at xl 7
16:51:42  @??green draconian
16:51:43  green draconian (03d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 82-116 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 20, 1508(poison) | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 03poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 1743 | Sp: poisonous cloud (3d9).
16:51:51  @??draconian
16:51:51  draconian (07d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 19-108 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(9) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 549.
16:51:54  kilobyte: seems reasonable to me
16:51:59  except the high HP std dev
16:52:16  my hat fell off :(
16:52:17 -!- Napkin changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Please try out tiles online: http://crawl.develz.org/webtiles | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
16:52:53  Napkin: the channel is -t, you can set the topic without having ops :)
16:53:26  bmh: the file you linked to is just a single commit...  could you remind me where your repository is?  (sorry for forgotting)
16:53:42  oh, right :)
16:53:55  kilobyte: my repository is on my laptop. I'll get it up on github in a bit
16:54:05  bmh: ah
16:54:13  gitorious would probably be more convenient for us :p
16:54:31  due: why?  It doesn't matter where other remotes are.
16:54:44  the gitorious ui is all kludgey
16:58:24 -!- Wensley__ has joined ##crawl-dev
16:59:34 -!- Wensley__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:00:26 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:00:33  dammit. still getting corruption
17:02:35 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev
17:05:25  kilobyte: https://github.com/bhickey/crawl
17:09:12  this might be obvious but you could replace cacodemon summons with shadow creatures
17:10:54  kilobyte: It's only corrupting on my 64-bit debian 5 machine and looks fine on my 32-bit osx machine. Valgrind isn't turning up anything strange.
17:13:17  Are katanas supposed to be available in 0.8?
17:15:10  ZChris13: yes
17:15:30  Okay, I guess they are removed for trunk then.
17:15:35  sorry to bother you!
17:15:45  ZChris13: you can transfer 0.8 saves to 0.9, too, and Bloodbane is a katana
17:16:00  oh? Can I do that on CDO?
17:16:29 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:16:57  ZChris13: no
17:17:12  Thank you!
17:18:02 -!- ion has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
17:18:23 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev
17:18:41 -!- ion has joined ##crawl-dev
17:22:00  OG17: do cacodemons even summon anymore?
17:22:01  kilobyte: I may have introduced a memory leak into crawl in the random number generator patch. The global generator gets heap allocated and never gets cleaned up before the program terminates.
17:25:28  bmh: is it allocated just once, or repeatedly?
17:25:35  kilobyte: just once per game
17:26:45  games on CDO/CAO run in separate processes, I presume
17:28:57  of course
17:29:49  ok. I'm mostly unconcerned
17:32:20  bmh: I'm trying to reproduce the corruption but failing.  Did you already fix the bug?
17:32:33  nope.
17:32:45  cacodemons still have demon summon
17:33:07  I came across an earlier and more awesome bug where the flooring was replaced by altars
17:33:09  giving them shadow creatures could be neat, maybe
17:33:30  @??cacodemon
17:33:30  Cacodemon (081) | Speed: 10 | HD: 13 | Health: 77-115 | AC/EV: 11/10 | Damage: 22, 22 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, lev, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(156), 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1891 | Sp: b.energy (3d20), slow, polymorph other, confuse, demon.
17:33:48  Eronarn: how about a mesmerising creature who runs away from you.
17:34:01  bmh: that sounds annoying
17:34:23  Eronarn: speed 8?
17:34:30  unless it's luring you to a specific thing, like sirens do with water
17:35:55  ...lava siren!
17:36:14  dpeg: i think elliptic is just busy at the moment, he said he wouldn't be around much until the start of the tourney
17:36:34  also, yay for demon tweak branch
17:36:43  i think making shadow creatures actually feel more shadow-y would be a good first step though
17:37:29  giving Cacodemons dig back but making them actually ever use it could be good and nasty, too
17:37:53  especially in Pan where almost all levels are diggable
17:38:22  mass dig: dig out all walls in sight
17:38:55  give the player no walls to hide behind
17:39:05  MarvinPA: ah, good to know
17:39:36  kilobyte: they don't need dig, actually
17:39:40  their bolt disintegates walls
17:39:51  so they can just fire at the wall
17:40:16  some monster or other actually using digging spell to get to you through walls would be cool, whether it's cacodemons or something else, anyway
17:40:18  Wensley: it's called shatter
17:40:23  using a digging spell*
17:40:34  MarvinPA: eh, in practice it's not much different from a beetle
17:40:53  which is to say it can be interesting but often won't be
17:41:13  sure, beetles are slow and unthreatening though :P
17:41:17  the thing is, monsters never cast spells when out of LOS
17:41:17  Eronarn: presumably the cacodemons don't want to hurt all their demon friends
17:41:18  greater demons less so
17:42:29  kilobyte: it'd be a lot more interesting on demons and pan lords than on the beetles
17:43:22  kilobyte: line 181 of cellular.cc should read: count=Poisson_count[seed%256];
17:43:42  that doesn't fix the bug, but the original is wrong
17:45:09  kilobyte: i think they do now, against stuff of yours they're fighting, but i could be wrong on that
17:45:25  cacodemons' summon demon is in the escape slot, right? I've never seen them use it, so I wouldn't be sad to see it go. Of course, whatever goes in there probably won't ever be seen either
17:45:39  Wensley: it's a beam, just draw a tracer and don't fire it if demons are in the way
17:45:52  they can swap with lesser demons, probably?
17:46:06  or are the demon-glyphs not able to swap
17:46:10  pretty sure I read that demons can push past those of a lesser tier
17:46:13  demons barely ever use their escape spells, yeah
17:46:18  by read I mean read the source
17:46:25  I forget why I read that part but I did
17:46:41  give cacodemons a passive aura of digging that automatically removes all diggable walls within a certain radius, and then give them tornado :)
17:46:48  no
17:46:49  that's dumb
17:46:54  *the best
17:46:59 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:47:10  that's not something you put on a thing that can be randomly summoned in orc/elf
17:47:21  you'd actually want summoners to summon cacodemons
17:47:30  players can summon them too
17:47:36  that too
17:48:25  that reminds me, if/when i implement summon panlord they'll probably need to have toned down spell lists :P
17:48:27  something with an aura of vitrification might be nifty but it would probably be so broken
17:48:45  i.e. walls within a certain radius of it are transparent
17:51:57 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:52:22  can we call it "bind" instead of summon?
17:52:25  bind is such a cool word
17:52:52  due: there was discussion earlier about trying to rename the summ spells to be more interesting sounding
17:53:20  we could make it Bind for demons rather than call, and use Call for the natural stuff, maybe
17:53:32  and summon for stuff like elementals
18:08:07 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:09:26 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:09:53  kilobyte: any hunches on the corruption?
18:12:30 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away
18:20:12 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz]
18:31:46 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:38:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:50:48 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev
18:51:28 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev
18:51:52 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest1990
19:00:11 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev
19:05:34 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev
19:09:24 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:09:30 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13
19:11:06 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev
19:14:13 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:14:17 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13
19:18:35  Berserker Hunger Cost Applied Twice (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3947) by Kitsune
19:32:05 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev
19:35:15 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
19:35:23 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev
19:38:59 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:39:04 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13
19:39:23 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .]
20:23:01 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:44:41 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:47:15 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev
21:08:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
21:18:07 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:19:12 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
22:14:08 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev
22:22:55 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]]
22:50:02  do giant spores not become fungal colonies if you kill them while they're sleeping?
22:52:57  Something like that.
22:53:58  so the best strategy is to wake them up from far away, then fireball them. gotcha
22:54:19  (which is to say, it sounds like something might need to be fixed)
23:09:49 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:10:40 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:18:01 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev
23:52:26 -!- eternaljwh has joined ##crawl-dev
23:53:00 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:56:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev