00:14:56 -!- LordSlothN has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:14 Note: Shift-dir safe travel does not acount for acid walls, autoexplore does 00:16:55 sounds like something that deserves a bug report! 00:17:20 yeah, that's definitely a bug. 00:17:21 hiii doy 00:18:01 hey(: 00:25:13 non red/white drac dragon form is actually pretty good if you can manage some resists 00:26:00 those two being annoying because of the negative resist you get 00:31:39 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Quit: Don't talk to me, I'm on my popcorn break] 00:33:09 -!- LordSlothN has quit [Quit: Using leafChat 2] 00:33:38 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:52 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 00:43:39 I'm sure I'm not the first to think the hit code is a mess. 00:57:59 moin 00:59:16 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 01:10:41 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:00 now to see if I can build it. 01:14:03 are you just building it or making patches? 01:14:43 Made a patch. 01:16:31 though it appears that I may have difficulties because I downloaded the source just by grabbing the tarball, then altered files, and it complains about lacking lua/src 01:17:15 what does your patch do? 01:19:09 adds a race which gains bonuses to-hit, to-dam, and to movespeed for building momentum. 01:19:21 but penalties if you do not. 01:19:57 step 1: get git. 01:23:54 Permission denied (publickey). 01:24:23 for attempting to git clone git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git like INSTALL.TXT says. 01:24:39 install.txt is wrong 01:24:50 that one is only for developers 01:25:01 yeah, you need to clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git 01:25:24 /bugreport 01:25:32 [consider that the report] 01:31:16 eternaljwh: consider what a bug report? 01:31:37 "install.txt is wrong" 01:31:46 but I suppose I did grab the master. 01:32:17 03doy * rd8d9459be64c 10/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt: point the install guide at the read-only repo url 01:39:15 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:15 install.txt was also wrong about needing to cd crawl-ref (in fact it prevents the git submodule update from beginning) 01:41:20 you should normally be able to rely on your system's libraries anyway 01:42:37 I suppose I should make sure I can make unpatched first. 01:43:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:54:38 oh, errors, hm. 01:56:18 03doy * r7869752efe9e 10/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt: the directory created by cloning the repository will be 'crawl' 01:56:52 http://pastebin.com/wMBZbtgE 01:57:10 you need libncursesw 01:57:27 (and its headers) 02:04:09 two more comments- the makefile being in /crawl-ref/source means that's where I had to make, and that caused the executable (et alia) to be there. (built successfully) 02:04:45 that's intentional 02:08:06 *alter files, make again* 02:09:47 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:26 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:38 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 02:22:28 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:39 realize belatedly that I'm going to have to add a line to the makefile. 02:28:23 03doy * re96654514477 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc travel.cc): don't allow shift-running to run you into slime walls 02:55:04 hrm, we need a configure step pretty badly -- no matter if done using autoconf or something else. And among fixing other issues, it would let us tell the user what's missing. 02:58:01 grumble namespace std grumble 02:59:07 yeah, not sure if we benefit from having to prefix such functions with std:: 02:59:46 it's not like there's a good use of "min()" or "string" that would clash with it 03:01:48 I'd have run afoul of it either way, I think. 03:05:45 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:07:08 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:23 AppHdr.h is kind of important. 03:20:10 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:27:46 OK, I thought grepping SP_HUMAN would get me all the points I'd need to tweak to add a race, but that missed dat/descript/species.txt ; any others? 03:30:00 eternaljwh: grep -ri "human" *? 03:33:09 yields far too many results. [It compiled fine, I just noticed the lack of description on race selection screen...along with bumping Felids off, y'know] 03:38:19 eternaljwh: check all the dat/descript/ files, and dat/database for good measure 03:40:18 "Documentation" link in wordpress is now a collection of links instead of the html-manual only: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/documentation 03:47:15 Napkin: thanks, that's great :) 03:49:06 I blame Eifeltrampel, galehar ;) 03:50:40 now where do I find that .crawlrc to turn on show_game_turns... 03:54:22 create it first, eternaljwh 03:54:48 cp docs/settings.txt ~/.crawlrc 03:55:35 cp ../docs/settings.txt ~/.crawlrc 03:56:13 No such file. 03:56:49 (in /crawl/crawlref/docs 03:58:30 as you can see for yourself: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/trees/master/crawl-ref/docs 03:59:50 I'll just grab the one I have on cao I suppose 04:24:10 and, after a lot of tweaking, it works; 45-degree turns accelerate, 90 degrees keeps constant, 135/180 cause you to lose all speed. 04:28:04 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:06 and standing/fighting/casting/picking your nose? 04:31:09 still need to hook other actions to also brake you. 04:31:28 fighting does burn off some momentum, though 04:32:03 ah, it's not in docs, eternaljwh 04:32:21 there, of course: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/trees/master/crawl-ref/settings 04:32:44 It's ok, I got mine from cao 04:33:10 "45-degree turns accelerate, 90 degrees keeps constant, 135/180 cause you to lose all speed" - what are you talking about there? 04:33:37 patch I wrote tonight to make a momentum-based race 04:34:09 ah 04:34:23 good - i was afraid you were talking about another lua bot ;) 04:40:55 getting every OTHER command to reset momentum might be nightmarish, or...hmm. 04:41:18 just a simple if(you.turn_is_over) might work 04:41:27 it'd be good to make 45-degree turns identical to going straight, since this would avoid NetHack-like stress on 8 cardinal directions 04:41:45 They are identical, I mean. 04:41:46 look at the berserk penalty 04:41:52 and you.walking 04:42:02 ok, good! 04:42:09 actually, better test. 04:43:31 ...that's a strange quirk. 04:44:38 odd, for a little there reversing direction wasn't slowing me. Now it is. :s 05:06:50 oh. 05:12:11 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:14:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:57 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:57 wherever long-rest goes, it isn't past the no-berserk-penalty function. 05:22:24 *blink* 05:27:48 or I just miss the other calling of it. 05:38:31 -!- Khaki has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:48 presently having too much fun with the speed limiter set at 1 instead of 6...got momentum preservation through stairs working. 06:00:30 !wtf MiMo 06:00:31 Minotaur Monk 06:04:06 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:55 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:55 -!- Guest89248 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:12 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:33 looks like being held in a net needs another specialcasing to kill momentum though. 06:45:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:53:44 eternaljwh: The patch sounds awesome 06:54:18 eternaljwh: Have you read https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:effect:levitation 06:56:03 no 06:57:07 It's my proposal to make levitation somewhat momentum-based; also, a terrain type that'd have a similar effect, plus two branch ideas based on it (these are on other pages). 06:58:09 It's sounds a bit different, but I'd love to see the effect in the game in any form :) 06:59:36 testing it I'm running into occasional cases where it is resetting momentum when it should not be 07:18:13 *snrk* "You dice the ogre like an onion!!!" 07:46:04 -!- ZorbaBeta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:10 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:03 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 08:26:31 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:47 -!- eternaljwh has quit [Quit: Adios.] 09:20:10 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:04 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:07 I can't seem to find a commit that changed monster cloud breath attacks 09:36:33 but they have been severly nerfed 09:37:03 too being completely useless 09:37:25 can't type right now apparently 09:39:44 Morning 09:49:10 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:29 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:23 howso, st_ 10:23:48 instead of being a huge blast now it's a piddly line that goes for about 4 spaces 10:23:53 gloorx nerf :( 10:31:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:33 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:18 st_: maybe related to https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3895 10:46:58 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:45 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:47 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:28:35 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 11:34:43 Necromancers easily waste turns casting Pain through undead minions (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3919) by rriegs 11:44:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:23 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:57 The remove jewellery menu offers rings/amulets I'm not wearing (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3920) by rriegs 12:17:28 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:25 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:28 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:25 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:22 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:41 -!- Khaki has quit [Changing host] 13:06:41 -!- Khaki has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:05 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:28:32 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:22 -!- Khaki has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:42:36 -!- Textmode has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:25 It's too easy to accidentally wield non-weapon items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3921) by rriegs 13:50:39 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:40 Hmm, the order of spells in starter books should be fixed... 14:21:59 I dunno how many times I've memorized lethal infusion instead of vampiric 14:23:11 anyone know if minions/enslaved monsters of a fedhas worshipper get the "walk through plants" thing too? 14:23:21 and shoot through plants 14:25:37 Two Lair ending vaults appear in the same game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3922) by nht 14:27:38 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:28 stabwound: they appear to be either unable or reluctant to walk through plants 14:28:39 ah 14:28:46 well, thanks anyway 14:31:59 ghallberg: aren't they just ordered by spell level? 14:32:30 they're supposed to be 14:32:36 but the order is actually just hardcoded 14:32:39 Wensley: Apperantly not, those two spells switch places now and then... 14:32:43 it's pretty dumb, someone should fix that 14:32:57 how could they switch places? that seems as though it should be impossible 14:32:58 oh, you mean it changes randomly? 14:33:08 doy: I _think_ so. 14:33:19 maybe someone did fix that then, just badly 14:33:20 (: 14:33:39 doy: Back in 0.7/6 Vamp Drain was always b, now it's sometime Lethal Infusion. 14:33:44 oh 14:33:45 i know 14:33:55 The easy solution is removing Infusion from the book, it's useless ;) 14:34:02 the order in the book itself is irrelevant 14:34:11 the memorization screen is sorted by success rate 14:34:22 Ah, that explains stuff I guess... 14:34:25 ghallberg: I agree about infusion being useless, but it's level 2 and vd is 3, so the order in the book is consistent 14:34:46 I prefer the new "order by success rate" thing, but I agree it throws you off at first 14:34:51 Wensley: But I have gotten Vamp above Infusion in 0.8/9 aswell. Sometimes. 14:34:55 and the sorting isn't a stable sort 14:35:13 so if two things have identical success rates, they might end up in either order 14:35:25 hrm 14:35:34 no, we fall back to alphabetical 14:35:44 Ok, I may be confused then :/ 14:35:45 so it should always be the same order 14:35:51 Ok... 14:36:00 so yeah, if you can reproduce it, that'd be helpful 14:36:00 (: 14:36:20 I'll try 14:37:44 So, it's based on success right? 14:37:59 a vampiric brand spell might be cool for a higher-level necro book 14:38:00 So if I had a higher Necro skill, Draining is easier to cast than infusion. 14:38:24 right 14:38:34 is infusion charms or hexes? 14:38:38 charms 14:38:43 all brands are 14:39:35 it's sorted first by "can i memorize this", then by success rate, then by level, then alphabetical by title 14:40:19 Ok, there, Vamp above Infuion. 14:47:12 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:22 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:39 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:05 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:13 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:22 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:10:57 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:35 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:09 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:22 I found a bug in zot defence. 15:28:33 Toad stools cause desecration of the orb 16:03:50 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:54 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:10 Shift-Direction Travel in Slime Pits (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3923) by LordSloth 16:12:17 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:36 -!- eith has quit [] 16:13:53 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:17 Numrow behavior changed - Win32 only (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3924) by LordSloth 16:22:38 still so confusing how people could possibly use the numrow to play 16:23:01 !lg @78291 killer=*ghost 16:23:01 No games for 78291 (killer=*ghost). 16:23:18 it would surely be easier to learn vikeys, very strange 16:24:37 wait, does this mean people remap the numrow keys to correspond to the numpad keys? 16:25:34 doy: my TAS of NetHack uses numrow controls 16:26:12 because the numrow can send more keys per second than the numpad on a typical keyboard, and switching to vikeys would take time and make some controls slower to press 16:26:41 -!- eith has quit [] 16:27:10 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:20 TAS of nethack? what, you mean with macros? 16:27:36 Wensley: no, with a full rerecording emulator 16:27:50 trying to find the theoretically fastest ascension 16:27:55 haha 16:28:04 that sounds more like a mathematical problem than a practical one 16:28:20 indeed 16:28:31 and there are loads of beautiful glitches that shave off fractions of a turn 16:29:27 I hope the dev team precalculated the theoretically fastest speedrun and coded a message for the game to print in case it ever occurs 16:30:23 the fastest normal ascension is at 2135 turns 16:30:41 i'd say a tas could get it under 2100 easily 16:31:49 theoretically one could stack the rng to have every monster always miss, and just run down and grab the amulet and run back up 16:32:23 can't start the quest until turn 2000 16:32:39 -!- casmith789 is now known as is 16:32:43 but yeah, after that point, sure 16:32:46 can't you branchport in? 16:32:50 -!- is is now known as casmith789 16:33:23 branchport would just take you to Home:1 16:33:25 which isn't helpful 16:33:32 ah 16:35:10 Wensley: i've been surprised 16:35:23 but it comes up at least once a week 16:36:33 LordSloth: I just don't even understand what it *means* to use the numrow to move. where do you put your hands?! 16:36:54 Wensley: and no, they don't remap the numrow keys tonumpad keys. Instead, they remap the numrow keys to the VIKEYS 16:37:21 I think they use those four directional arrows for everything 16:37:21 it's nearly incomprehensible 16:37:34 doy: someone won in 2135 turns!? 16:37:36 I use a netbook, vikeys are exceptional 16:37:42 bmh: http://alt.org/nethack/fastasc.html 16:37:47 One person did convert to vikeys shortly after I suggested that fix, so... 16:37:48 oh. nethack. 16:38:00 yes, hence 'ascension' 16:38:01 (: 16:38:11 what's the fastest dcss win? 16:38:13 like the top one 16:38:20 hyperbolic 16:38:20 !lg * ktyp=winning min=turn 16:38:24 13k 16:38:24 mine! 1:05 16:38:26 4190. hyperbolic the Severer (L20 DDBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-09-20, with 4733437 points after 13435 turns and 3:03:41. 16:38:33 oh turns, boo 16:38:38 !lg * ktyp=winning min=dur 16:38:45 4190. cashybrid the Eviscerator (L22 FeBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-04-05, with 1295305 points after 91333 turns and 1:05:11. 16:38:59 sweet merciful keyboard banging 16:39:01 how'd you do that? 16:39:25 its a fancy bit of lua 16:39:57 it was 2/3 bot 16:40:08 its only beating a real person by like 5 mins 16:40:13 !lg * ktyp=winning min=dur -2 16:40:16 4189. 78291 the Backstabber (L15 SpEn), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-08-28, with 3765072 points after 16625 turns and 1:11:51. 16:40:29 !lg * ktyp=winning min=xl 16:40:30 4190. syllogism the Farming Englaciator (L1 HEIE), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-01-28, with 250008 points after 209486 turns and 21:26:39. 16:40:39 heh 16:40:47 !lg * ktyp=winning min=xl xl!=1 16:40:49 I propose that the author of the tourney scripts parse out the name of the SA clan and replace it with "TEAM NUMROW" 16:40:50 4189. 78291 the Infuser (L12 SpAE), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-08-14, with 2158432 points after 30876 turns and 2:21:28. 16:41:55 doy: Is that Syllogism win real? 16:42:01 bmh: level draining 16:42:04 ah 16:42:08 syllogism does weird stuff like that 16:42:08 (: 16:42:15 hes also at -1 hp :) 16:42:27 'eh? how does that work? 16:42:33 deaths door abuse and bug 16:44:13 Would a patch to "not rot" when a toadstool grows on the orb in ZotDefence be accepted? 16:44:30 I just had a game spoiled when I forgot a corpse on top of the orb 16:44:58 Wensley: have mercy on them. Having Lawman on their team is awesome/punishment enough. 16:45:18 Wensley: don't worry we'll beat them in the actual tournament 16:46:10 casmith789: I'm confident in your abilities :) 16:46:19 yay! 16:46:21 casmith789: how do I stop sucking at crawl? 16:46:41 hang out in ##crawl and ask endless questions and get guys to watch and shout at you 16:46:51 press 5 after every fight and abuse corridors 16:46:53 tried. 16:46:59 literally those 2 things will make you win 16:47:04 bmh: play a deep dwarf 16:47:25 get tips from eith, he helped me win when I first started 16:47:26 I have played one deep dwarf ever, it was also my first 15-rune ascension 16:47:37 wow 16:47:39 DDNe? 16:47:48 !hs * char=ddne 16:47:48 5727. Wensley the Dwarven Blade (L27 DDNe), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2010-09-29, with 9708906 points after 173808 turns and 41:27:08. 16:49:19 (deep dwarves are also just really fun) 16:49:40 bmh: I can be your personal coach after I finish with bug reports 16:50:07 LordSloth: make me win crawl and I'll fix some bugs. 16:50:37 I like this tutoring thing that is happening, maybe there should be a forum on the tavern about finding crawl mentors 16:51:17 Wensley: I'm ambivalent. There are plenty of things I should be doing with my time instead of playing crawl. Like fixing bugs in crawl 16:51:19 bmh: it's quite easy to coach someone to win crawl if they listen, I've done it to 3-4 people, and I'm terrible at crawl 16:52:03 bmh: just check out elynaes greatest miss 16:52:05 the trick is to pick something with high hp so you can catch mistakes relatively easily. Such as a melee fighter 16:52:20 casmith789: I love spriggans. 16:52:27 My only win was a SpCK (Lugonu) 16:52:38 so you won crawl? then what's wrong :P 16:52:47 once in nearly 800 games 16:52:49 that's a pretty awesome character to win, way better than a ddne :P 16:53:22 Wensley: I cheated through part of it. I lured a silent spectre around the dungeon 16:53:39 haha, well, that's still kind of awesome 16:53:40 Wensley: if they're fun why did you only play one? :) 16:53:59 upsy: that win took 41 hours! I stopped playing crawl for months after that :P 16:54:05 also...ne of tso :S 16:54:11 heh 16:54:26 yeah, I thought it was pretty hilarious (he was repentant) 16:55:01 !lg * ktyp=winning char=spck 16:55:01 9. Daemmerung the Enchanter (L23 SpCK), worshipper of Lugonu, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-11-14, with 1324901 points after 85871 turns and 13:47:13. 16:55:26 also I'm long-term aiming for that nick mapping where you win one of each race, so I have to pick something besides dd and ds (I am very slow at playing this game) 16:55:47 ??gnome 16:55:48 gnome[1/1]: Woohoo, earth aptitude of 60, but spellcasting of 156. Least played and won race as of 0.4.5. They were cut and replaced by Deep Dwarves. 16:56:10 is that the same as the gnomes that Adam mentioned in his e-mail? 16:56:21 no 16:56:28 nomes 16:56:28 ??nome 16:56:29 wensley[2/2]: "... I played around with them last night and they make me very excited" "I'm just saying, I couldn't have done it without you :P" 16:56:29 oh man, was someone mentioning nomes?! 16:56:36 ...haha 16:56:48 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:51 love wallswimming 16:56:53 ??wensley[1] 16:56:53 wensley[1/2]: Thoroughly approves of Mu's Crypt finales. 16:56:58 nomes are like rock worms or something 16:57:06 pretty much yeah 16:57:13 hide in the wall for massive AC bonus? 16:57:34 they'd be neat to have because then kenku = air, nome = earth, lava orc = fire, merfolk = water :D 16:58:16 Eronarn: that's what I was thinking, actually, when I heard of lava orcs 16:58:36 shift all the effort on octopodes into lava orcs 16:58:42 no 16:58:52 I'd previously (unsuccessfully) pitched the idea of a slime race, but I've been thinking about a slug/snail race 16:58:59 oozekin 16:59:08 lower than average speed, but it leaves a slime trail that it can traverse at higher than average speed 16:59:18 and map labyrinths 16:59:25 -!- eith has quit [] 16:59:30 i hope octopodes get merged into trunk like kilobyte mentioned in that same mail, too 16:59:44 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:46 octopodes are neat 16:59:46 octopodes are fun despite being very difficult 16:59:46 I should probably starting reading the mailing list again... 17:00:01 if octopodes do get beaks, I think they should get UC bumped from 0 to +1 17:00:02 like ogres used to be. Although I haven't played new ogre so maybe it's still the same 17:00:06 difficult is good, etc 17:00:11 or maybe not etc 17:00:13 just . 17:00:35 it's good to have hard races. OgBe is apparently viable which upsets me 17:00:46 i played ogbe and got gsc to min delay soon after lair, so it seemed good 17:00:47 bmh: octopodes do have beaks 17:01:02 Eronarn: oh. I misread the e-mail in that case 17:01:18 they don't have poison beaks though 17:01:31 which was the point 17:01:35 right, just a bite right now 17:01:49 i'm not sure how i feel about giving them poison, an ink cloud might work better 17:01:51 ??bleeding 17:01:52 bleeding[1/2]: Reduces a monster's HP by a tiny fraction each turn, supposedly. 17:01:57 ??bleeding[2] 17:01:58 bleeding[2/2]: awful. sucks. 17:02:03 poison seems too good 17:02:20 Okay, I think I'm actually up to date on my FRs. You can find me in ##crawl and ##gooncrawl now, bmh 17:02:20 ink cloud being like steam or something? 17:02:24 breath timer, slippery, works like kraken ink instead in water 17:02:50 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 17:02:51 LordSloth: I forgot my SA password and my old university e-mail address just expired so I can't recover it! 17:02:53 doh. 17:02:57 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 17:03:02 sounds nice 17:03:18 yeah, i like ink cloud better than poison 17:03:43 there's constriction, too, which nagas are also supposed to get at some point 17:04:33 nagas don't really need it, whatever it actually does 17:04:50 might just be a mesmerize stun thing 17:06:07 I have a hard time imagining an octopus with a polearm flapping and heaving around the dungeon, maybe they could ride felids 17:06:32 "Autumnal" Ecumenical temple vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3925) by oiseaux 17:07:47 that sounds like a really cool vault 17:08:26 looks nice yea 17:08:37 hi 17:08:42 hey 17:08:55 i <3 ink cloud! 17:08:56 obviously. 17:12:03 apt tweaks will also help them a lot 17:12:09 i'm thinking of giving them 0 in most stuff 17:14:43 I'd suggest focusing octopodes away from polearms, both to differentiate from merfolk and because I feel like it'd be hard to coordinate a two-handed long-hafted weapon 17:15:26 but the trident of the octopus king! 17:15:32 sigh 17:15:38 I suppose casmith is right 17:16:02 (although note that the octopus king may not necessarily be an octopus(!!)) 17:16:35 Wensley: Polearms aren't exaclt the merfolk's only differentiating point. 17:16:57 no, polearms and the ability to swim are 17:16:57 d: 17:17:07 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:49 all apts to 0 would mean they're no better at polearms than other stuff 17:18:32 and then we could finally get rid of humans 17:18:43 Wensley: ... 17:18:53 humans are great 17:18:54 :) 17:19:01 they are one of the most fun races 17:20:02 *least 17:20:11 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:21:38 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:22:47 Eronarn: I feel as though there'd be at least a little difficulty using normal weapons, maybe give them slight positive in UC and a slight negative in all other weapon skills? 17:24:06 I think there's a flaw in your logic: they've grown up with tentacles and thus are adept at using items with them. 17:24:23 Why should they have a malus against using "normal" things simply because they have tentacles? 17:24:39 i've grown up with feet, and i'm not adept at using items with those 17:25:02 yes, and since octopodes don't have feet, they can't wear boots 17:25:05 because there are additional complications to using a longsword from flat on the ground with twice as many flailing appendages 17:25:32 Wensley: are you more accurate using a knife with two fingers, a finger and a thumb, or five fingers and a thumb and a hand? 17:25:50 doy: I was comparing tentacles to hands and fingers, not to feet :p 17:26:12 doy: I imagine if you had grown up using your feet as hands you'd be adept at it by now. 17:26:18 that's true 17:26:19 (: 17:26:46 the real flaw in my reasoning is that I have no context for ascendedly-intelligent octopuses 17:27:03 why do you need a context? 17:27:30 weapons found in the dungeon has been designed to be used by humanoids with hands, not tentacles 17:27:37 galehar_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:27:45 aptitudes are the rate at which you learn, correct? just because you've learned over your whole life how to use tools that were designed for aliens hands to use, doesn't mean you're quick at learning them 17:28:04 Wensley: here is a simple counterargument: i want the main gimmick of octopodes to be their eight rings, and i am trying to avoid large departures from existing races other than that gimmick 17:28:19 !messages 17:28:20 (1/1) kilobyte said (2w 2d 9h 54m 59s ago): is that seen_context bug you dealt with in 3b1eaa15 possible in 0.8? 17:28:23 octopodes use weapons because i don't want them to be an unarmed-primary race 17:28:45 okay, but you can also use apts to make them interesting beyond that single gimmick 17:28:46 it's true, we have plenty of those 17:28:51 there are too many unarmed primary races 17:29:07 there aren't too many -- there are enough 17:29:22 I'd hope that poison would stay high, at least 17:30:07 i would have them with a few +/-'s, sure 17:30:09 but mostly 0s 17:30:15 right now their apts suck 17:30:29 in that i feel they're poorly thought out 17:31:23 their armour apt should be negative, at the least 17:31:24 (: 17:31:46 hats and cloaks don't train armour, yeah? 17:31:55 are you ditching the conj -3 apt? 17:31:58 that's true, i guess it's irrelevant 17:32:07 due: correct, and OP can't wear cloaks 17:33:02 can't really see why conj -3 would be appropriate 17:33:16 but you may as well set it to -3 anyway 17:33:19 simply because it looks good 17:33:26 Eronarn: reconsider no cloaks, :) 17:33:53 Eronarn: they're rare -- not as rare as hats -- but they're massively hard already with no AC. 17:35:09 how does having eight endgame-level rings compare to having a normal endgame-level set of equipment, power-wise? 17:35:26 it's uncomparable. 17:35:35 how do the stats compare 17:35:53 I mean, you can get full resists for maybe two elements 17:35:59 and if you have nice randarts maybe a lot of slaying 17:36:12 anyone got any idea why swinepaste ended up with a blank config file in erocrawl? 17:36:14 you could get fairly good ac and ev 17:36:34 Zannick: but no GDR 17:36:39 right 17:39:09 yeah, i'm removing the conj -3 17:39:14 originally i didn't want them to be blasters 17:39:21 but i think it'll be better to just make them good at stealth 17:39:25 rather than actually bad at conj 17:39:43 as for AC - i want to give them +1 racial AC, 0 is really just too low 17:39:48 megabats shouldn't be that hard 17:40:26 my current plan: "chameleonic skin" mutation, and give them that + the jiyva jellyskin mut 17:40:48 (i also plan on making tentacles 3 a normally-usable mut, so DS can have it) 17:41:04 what's the jellyskin mut do? 17:41:48 also, can you make them bleed blue? :) 17:44:57 it gives +1 AC. and no, the current bleeding code doesn't support that well 17:46:20 duvessa went berserk with dowan still alive = bug? 17:46:45 pot of berserk? 17:47:01 no idea, it was just berserk when it came into los 17:47:23 Eronarn: what's the size on octopodes? if they're small enough, they could squeeze under the cracks of doors to be even more stealthy 17:47:36 they're the size of humans 17:47:49 as big as a man, eh 17:48:21 they're bulky, several hundred pounds 17:48:25 stabwound: are you sure dowan was alive? 17:48:30 though not as tall, because they don't stand on their tentacle-tips 17:48:38 due: they were right next to each other 17:48:50 stabwound: potion of berserk then -- the death effects only get triggered by monster_die 17:48:59 so unless something is incorrectyl calling monster_die on dowan 17:49:07 okay, weird coincidence 18:22:42 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:35 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:46 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:53 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:10 -!- galehar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:12 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:13 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:14 -!- Henzell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:34 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:40 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:42 -!- ophanim is now known as themonarch 20:45:25 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:51 so 20:47:12 I'd love to seriously merge the webtiles "extra data" output stream back into standard trunk. 20:47:20 is it sanely possible? 20:57:01 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:57 -!- gvdm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:29 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:29 -!- themonarch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:16 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:31 hm, under silence by mennas, and attempting to use an invocation (trog) yields "Sorry, you're not good enough to have a special ability." 22:10:04 Zannick: Your attempt -- or attempting to view the abilities menu? 22:10:16 the latter -- hitting a 22:13:48 Hm. 22:13:56 Sounds like silence just disables special abilities 22:14:03 i could've sworn someone fixed this 22:14:07 But the default message for disabled special abilities/no special abilities is that 22:14:11 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:11 and yes, I thought tey had as wsell 22:14:13 a regression... 22:14:19 this isn't trunk, to be sure 22:14:20 or someone playing an old version? :D 22:14:23 cao 22:15:04 sorry, but the right place to report bugs with .8 is LAST MONTH >8) 22:16:30 :P 22:20:02 -!- Twinge has quit [] 22:40:02 -!- ophanim1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:40:34 -!- ophanim1 is now known as TheMonarch 22:42:41 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:14 okay, another possibly-only-0.8 thing 22:59:38 ctrl-f for "trove" or "treasure" doesn't find the trove 23:00:28 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:30 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:35 i think that's been the case for a while, "gate" works 23:03:54 "portal" and "trove" and so on probably should as well though, yeah 23:17:06 -!- gvdm has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:23 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:51 is this at all related to how--at least last time I checked--traps sometimes (or always?) lost their identity out of los 23:20:12 e.g. teleport and zot and alarm traps would all turn into "magical trap" when e'x'amined from out of sight 23:20:22 probably breaks search too but I haven't checked 23:20:46 huh yeah 23:20:51 you can find what they are by searching 23:20:57 but not by x-ing 23:21:02 curious 23:36:03 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:00 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:41 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]