00:00:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-248-gee34b6a (32) 00:00:54 I'd like to report this to the bug tracker, but I don't think I'm enough of a wizard to set up the conditions to replicate it 00:02:21 Wensley: Delete entry.des and define a single vault with a single upstair and then start six or seven AK. 00:02:29 Wensley: Not difficult ;) 00:03:09 more difficult is that I have to remember how I access git on this machine, and then compile for half an hour :P 00:03:19 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-248-gee34b6a (32) 00:05:01 okay, found git, hoping that "devel" is the right branch, and hoping that "git pull" is the command I really wanted to use 00:11:21 Prerelease branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.8.0-a1-189-g1b7fc9a (32) 00:13:20 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-248-gee34b6a 00:18:47 just found an entry vault with only one staircase defined, or what I think is an entry vault, anyway. it's basically minimalist entry vault. but once again I started nowhere near it 00:21:15 Windows builds of 0.8 branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.8.0-a1-189-g1b7fc9a 00:28:59 kinda wish escape hatches wouldn't let things follow you 00:33:09 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:24:19 -!- gvdm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:35:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:58 Necromutation expiration warning should stop autotravel (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3854) by Someone-else 02:08:26 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:23 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:00 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 02:31:09 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:39 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:10 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:58 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:59 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 03:05:31 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:41 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:15 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:18 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 03:15:51 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:30 !tell Zaba Are the two new lair_end TAGS documented somewhere? (I don't know whether syntax.txt or lair.des is a better place.) 03:16:30 dpeg: OK, I'll let Zaba know. 03:18:45 dpeg: they're internally used by a single lua function in lair.des and not exposed anywhere else 03:18:45 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:20:05 kilobyte: but I saw them in the TAGS: lines of actual lair end vaults. Doesn't this mean that vault designers should be aware to use one of those tags? 03:20:54 !tell Cryp71c I'd have to read up on gcc function attributes, but I guess making dprf() optimizable to nothing is doable one way or another. 03:20:54 kilobyte: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 03:21:24 dpeg: not anymore, Zaba refactored due's code 03:23:03 ah, okay 03:23:19 !tell Zaba Sorry for the noise, seems the tags are not exposed to vault makers anymore. Cheers! 03:23:19 dpeg: OK, I'll let Zaba know. 03:25:29 well, it'd be a valid concern if they were. We're pretty bad about documenting anything, nagging about that is good :p 03:26:23 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:28:18 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:37 kilobyte: You still need to tag the small ones as small, though. 03:30:48 aha! 03:30:57 kilobyte: Otherwise I've no idea how the function would choose a secondary vault to place... 03:31:00 Is it new that Space does not quit the inventory list? 03:31:59 due: there's no tag in any of the vaults, it's hidden inside the function call. 03:33:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:35:49 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:33 ah 03:36:43 i only vaguely reviewed zaba's change 03:40:06 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:25 I believe that we should try (slowly) to change monster colours if they're the same as of walls (in their native habitat), e.g. rats and kobolds. 03:40:28 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:33 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 03:42:21 dpeg: I am totally for this 03:42:27 kilobyte: what do you think? 03:42:41 I think kobold -> lightgrey would be okay. 03:42:42 I could make a list with the offending monsters over the next weeks and present a proposal. 03:42:51 @??grey rrat 03:42:51 unknown monster: "grey rrat" 03:42:53 @??grey rat 03:42:53 grey rat (15r) | Speed: 12 | HD: 1 | Health: 3-9 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 5 | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 4. 03:43:24 due: colour and key changes always raise a lot of objections, so it's best (imo) to do it in one sweeping step, assuming all developers agree. 03:43:30 might be good... although I'd rather start with dark blue 03:43:45 @??pikel 03:43:45 Pikel (02K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(24) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 651. 03:43:56 might clash too much with pikel. 03:43:57 on a good percentage of monitors, it's far easier to see dark grey than dark blue 03:44:07 o, right. 03:44:08 kilobyte: but that's a technical problem :( 03:44:09 *oh, right. 03:44:20 I am not sure if we want to give up _two_ colours 03:44:29 yeah 03:44:51 it can be done by adjusting the colours of your terminal, but hardly anyone knows this can be done 03:45:00 When you run Crawl for the first time, you should be shown a dark blue and a dark grey thing, and asked: "Which one can you see better?". 03:45:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:57 dpeg: Yes, that's what I was thinking 03:46:08 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:09 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 03:48:06 the problem with dark grey is different: some buggy terminals don't show it at all (Apple's default terminal in past versions, Red Hat's console in mid-1990s), while dark blue tends to get darker as monitors age but never totally disappears. 03:49:03 ah, so that's why we have to use dark blud as default 03:49:36 IIRC humans need blue to have over ten times as much absolute energy to perceive it as well as green -- but I'm not so good at physics of human sight. 03:51:57 is the reason for changing the colour of kobolds to make them stand out more? if so, it would probably be good to change the colour of things like merfolk as well (blue m on blue ~ doesn't really stand out) 03:52:11 evilmike: read my first message on this 03:52:28 "same colour as in their native area" 03:52:36 so yes, does apply to mermaids too 03:53:11 oh, you just mentioned walls there 03:53:12 yeah... it's thematic but damn hard to see 03:55:59 Swapping darkgrey and darkblue should be a simple matter when launching, yeah? 03:56:04 exactly, should always put gameplay at the front there 03:56:22 due: I'd think so. There is an option to do that. 04:00:51 N78291 already has that in his config... and IMO it looks abysmal. 04:01:48 Even on relevant systems? 04:03:39 I don't know if Mac monitors are brighter as they age... 04:03:58 but obviously ugly dark blue is better than invisible dark grey 04:04:29 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:36 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:19 dark blue isn't abysmal 04:05:57 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:59 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 04:07:36 casmith789: depends on monitor... I noticed it works fine on brand new ones and is hard to see once a monitor reaches several years of age. Both on CRT and LCD, somehow. 04:08:10 Bottom line: will compile a list of offending monsters. 04:08:30 at work, I get bright sunlight from the window between 10-12:00, which is a factor for me, too 04:09:00 dpeg: would be nice 04:09:02 Another longterm goal we should try to achieve imo: get rid of subdepth monsters. They hurt! 04:09:13 Nethack makes darkgrey dark blue and some people do report problems on the norm of a black background 04:09:14 subdepth? 04:09:37 rats on D:3 are meaningless alone, and they're still generated on D:9 04:09:58 casmith789: NetHack doesn't support dark grey at all; maybe bhaak or his competition fixed that 04:10:42 there's a dark_grey patch which is on NAO and in the all self-respecting variants 04:11:02 but not in vanilla, no 04:12:49 greensnark: awake? 04:14:15 greensnark: if so, could you educate me what was the problem with replacing in-use db files on servers? I'd like to fix the race conditions precisely by keeping the file open so it can be moved aside, so it'd be good to know what the problems were. 04:16:34 greensnark: on all supported platforms, you can at least rename (if not delete) in-use files, and on win98 if it ever gets fixed, you'd be in the worst case denied reinstalling Crawl while there's another game running 04:23:50 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:28 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:30 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 04:30:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:06 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:15 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:37:24 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 04:37:53 kilobyte: the dark grey is a special case for bold-black on black. if your terminal is set to show bold as bold, i'd say it's not really buggy that you show bold black as black :) I don't know if there are any terminals where you CAN'T set that bold colors are not bold but a different color (I _think_ there was also some issue with 256-color-terminals but I don't quite remember) 04:42:05 actually, there's a separate code, "dim" (\e[2m) that does nothing when not supported 04:42:15 sadly, some important terminals don't support it 04:42:25 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:42:33 and you're using ncurses, isn't that dealt with in ncurses? (wouldn't be surprised if not, curses generally is a mess [yay for 70ies technology] and it isn't called "n*curses" for nothing) 04:42:57 well said :) 04:44:20 well, but "dim" is at least standard and you know what happens if it isn't supported. bold black on black can be shown AFAIR at least as black-on-black, dark gray and I think some setting in osx terminal will show any bold color as red? 04:45:09 fun, fun 04:46:03 at least, I don't think bold black is still broken on any system you can buy right now, though 04:48:45 windows 7 has a decent console or is it broken beyond any usability, so nobody would even think that it works? 04:49:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:53:18 not sure, I use XP when I'm forced to do something with Windows, and even that in a virtual machine 04:53:52 its console is nearly unchanged since Windows 2.0 and based on DOS, so it supports bold black 04:54:36 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:13 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:00:06 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:23 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:53 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:23 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:16 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:55 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 05:10:00 moin 05:10:00 Zaba: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 05:10:25 Zaba: Hi! Both messages are pointless, sorry about it. 05:10:45 and I read them first in my awaylog anyway :> 05:10:47 no problem, though 05:11:13 dpeg: I like lava orcs! 05:11:54 due: did you play them? 05:12:14 dpeg: yes, playing right now 05:14:11 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:24 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:32 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:47 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:23:06 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:11 -!- Wensley_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:53 dpeg: once in a number of games, one feels a need to breach a stone or metal wall. Vaults like minmay_layered_prison give a large incentive to scum LRD if you can. 05:26:25 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:51 would a misc item capable of breaching a single such wall would be a good idea? With a lot of noise so it's not that hot on Tomb:1 and Zot:5. 05:27:38 kilobyte: Re-do the stone of earth elementals to do a single dig through any stone/metal/etc wall for a lot of noise? 05:27:52 kilobyte: I think so, yes. 05:27:53 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:28:05 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 05:29:17 due: I was thinking about that "small keg of magic powder" idea do the breaching in addition to its firestorm effect, but your idea might be better. 05:29:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:32 de-spoilering minmay_layered_prison would be nice, too. On my OgHu, I spent a long time repeatedly trying to cTele into before reading the source and learning it's impossible. 05:32:49 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:11 kilobyte: hm 05:33:15 kilobyte: no-ctele-into? 05:34:35 no, the inner vault is full of monsters so you can't get inside 05:34:53 ahh 05:36:13 having glass or Cerebov-like crack in the metal would allow easily killing the monsters inside if you have any smiting attack, though 05:40:23 my ideas would be: 1. lua to somehow briefly show you the insides for a fraction of a turn, or 2. just removing the vault (great rewards for spoilers) 05:40:25 1. could have a crack and a marker triggering on seeing the insides to have the crack collapse back 05:41:14 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:19 reasons for 2: the rewards are: any dig: 6 % items, plus cTele/memming LRD: 8 | items, plus LRD and scumming power items: 9 acquire_any. Plus some monsters to kill. 05:42:46 Just add a secret door. 05:45:58 also, an '8' monster in D or Vaults can pack a punch, in Crypt, in my test I got a bone dragon plus popcorn 05:50:17 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:41 dpeg, kilobyte, due: Stone/metal digging - how about wands of disintegration with high skill? (of course, that'd give the player more uses) 06:02:52 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:11 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:12 I haven't read the full discussion, but I like how LRD uses up walls and opens up room for monsters if you use it in regular combat. This could be kept with "rubble"-style new terrain type: you could step into it, but not see or move into any adjacent tiles unless they're open space. 06:04:42 Rubble would block LOS to any tiles beyond itself. 06:05:11 You could dig through one-width wall with it, but not two-wide walls. 06:06:37 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 06:13:40 Have you guys seen this by the way? http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/gp05q/adomstone_soup_is_a_thing_that_needs_to_exist/ 06:16:22 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:40 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:41 back 06:19:37 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:04 Keskitalo: it says it's down 06:20:43 yeah. I got through a minute ago, but not now 06:21:32 -!- Wensley_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:24:35 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:26:43 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:52 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:11 Mornin 06:29:11 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:29:31 !messages 06:29:31 (1/1) kilobyte said (3h 8m 37s ago): I'd have to read up on gcc function attributes, but I guess making dprf() optimizable to nothing is doable one way or another. 06:30:07 kilobyte, still there? How do you mean by optimizable? 06:31:59 as in, dprf() should do nothing when you're not in debug mode 06:33:05 kilobyte, I had always thought tha'ts how it was? I thought it was the debug-equivilent of mprf. 06:33:36 I though tthe function was a do-nothing call #ifndef DEBUG_MESSAGS? 06:35:33 if it's merely #defined to nothing, you get a lot of warnings about unused variables 06:36:05 ah 06:40:13 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:40:19 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:20 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 06:43:58 Sigh, the delay on this bus is nearly intolerable. 06:44:55 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:28 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:32 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 06:55:56 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:57 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:01 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:01 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 07:04:22 -!- st_ has quit [] 07:08:22 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:06 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:13 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:12:16 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 07:23:30 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:40 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:40 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 07:28:17 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:47 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:41 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:13 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:54:02 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 07:58:50 crap, the docs say a function with __attribute__((pure)) will be optimized away if its result is not needed -- but it works for scalar types but not std::string (even const std::string) 08:03:20 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:35 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:25 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:18 -!- Wensley_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20:07 Cryp71c: are you going to merge the combat rewrite anytime soon? Or at least reconcile it with recent trunk? 08:21:01 if I mess with dprf()s now, the merge would be even nastier... 08:22:43 kilobyte: its not done, or really anywhere near it, but it should be in a functional state, since I've been working not to make any actual changes, though I havn't done any significant testing in half a dozen commits, and I'm working on a big one right now. 08:23:53 so merging trunk into combat would be disruptive too, right? 08:24:01 kilobyte: when you say reconcile, do you mean rebase some of the changes from master out into the combat rewrite so that the merge down the road back into master is less conflicted? 08:24:27 yeah 08:24:43 kilobyte: at this exact moment, probably..but once I finish this commit, I can merge trunk into combat. Its not like the effort to fix conflicts will be wasted..I'll have had to have done it eventually anyways. 08:26:15 I looked at the conflicts, and it appears that the best way would be to merge files other than fight.cc then manually re-do all changes to that file 08:27:05 obviously no hurry, what I wanted to know is that I shouldn't mess with dprf right now 08:28:27 in combat rewrite, or trunk? 08:29:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:14 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:27 -!- ZorbaBeta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:16 either, I guess. Of course, parts unrelated to combat are fine. 08:34:43 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:02 How long do you think it'll take you? I have another couple of days still on this commit, its big and involves me getting really, really familiar with all the various instantiation of mons_attack_def. 08:37:01 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37:24 BTW, call imp seems to have a 100% rate of friendliness? That seems incongruent with other summonings and call imps is kind of imba atm anyways in the super early game. 08:37:36 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:36 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 08:44:06 all early summon spells are always friendly, besides scorpions and it's an annoying spell to use because of it 08:44:12 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:35 actually a large portion of late summons are always friendly too 08:45:46 only spell summons 08:45:48 Not saying Call Imp isn't, but Spammals certainly is overpowered. :) 08:46:01 all invocation or evocation summons are much, MUCH less friendly. 08:46:12 But I'm not implying that that should change, since anyone can use invo/evo summons. 08:46:15 Cryp71c: and call imp is a spell summon, how about that 08:46:35 hi doy! 08:46:38 hey 08:47:03 doy: indeed, when thinking about the friendly rate of summons, my experience is heavily weighted to nonspell ones, which was making me think that all summons had a higher chance of coming unfriendly. 08:49:56 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 08:54:28 i wonder if summon ugly thing could be always friendly 08:54:42 since it doesn't see nearly as much use at level 6, now 08:56:04 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:48 I think summon dragon needs buffing 08:57:04 how many people even know it exists 08:57:10 let alone use it 08:57:31 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:45 especially after the awesomefun TSO extension was nerfed 08:57:55 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:58:15 yeah, it's not at all comparable to any of the other level 9 spells 08:59:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:26 I'm not sure if we really need the spell at all though 08:59:59 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:00:12 nerf all other L9 spells instead 09:00:38 Wait until I win a tornado char, then nerf l9 spells 09:00:39 :P 09:04:51 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 09:07:26 so.. is 0.8 going to be released in 3 days? 09:08:23 not many crashes these days, fortunately 09:08:25 03kilobyte * r89b65fc65c1c 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Comment out a spammy debug mode message. 09:08:26 03kilobyte * r18657a43e546 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (hells.des pan.des): Fix Gloorx's level using lightgrey walls. 09:08:26 03kilobyte * r4137a21d31cd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abyss.cc mon-project.cc mpr.h player.cc zotdef.cc): Turn dprf() into a #define. 09:08:27 03kilobyte * r82e204c745a8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: Fix lightgrey walls in Coc:7. 09:08:28 03kilobyte * r846770870d30 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc database.cc directn.cc): Shorten some mprf(DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS, ...), axe unused debug #ifdefs. 09:08:36 03kilobyte * r57a9775d2e0d 10/crawl-ref/source/abyss.cc: Convert a bunch of #ifdef DEBUG mprf() into dprf(). 09:08:37 03kilobyte * r30de546be990 10/crawl-ref/source/ (22 files): dprf()ize a number of #ifdef ... mprf(MSGCH_DIAGNOSTICS). 09:08:37 03kilobyte * rd2c8c6c8c117 10/crawl-ref/source/arena.cc: Fix some misclassified arena messages. 09:08:38 03kilobyte * r1f64a7889026 10/crawl-ref/source/maps.cc: Make a couple global variables static. 09:08:58 oh, nice 09:10:00 I'm still not sure how to fix corruption of the map cache if someone breathes loudly during its rebuild. 09:11:08 not sure if there are other important bugs left over 09:11:16 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:20 thanks kilo 09:16:22 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r6d8556224048 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix clinging status not updated when monster doesn't move. 09:16:34 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * re8f19cccb6a8 10/crawl-ref/docs/keybind.txt: Fix documentation of tab keys. 09:16:35 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r8acfec0c3273 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc spl-goditem.cc spl-goditem.h): Fix some messages for scrolls of RC and curse foo. 09:16:36 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * r2fc4cc73443d 10/crawl-ref/source/menu.cc: Fix clinging monsters being drawn in water in ^X screen. 09:16:36 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r14caac52f49b 10/crawl-ref/licence.txt: Bump the copyright year. 09:16:37 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.8 * ra762962f9be0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc spl-goditem.cc): Fix identify not taking a turn if cancelled after the first identification. 09:16:38 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * rc4bb9b0978cf 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Adjust Nemelex's "disappointed" message, only use it for targetless destruction cards 09:17:06 what's wrong with lightgrey walls? 09:18:52 the default config places stone on the same glyph as rock, so there's no way to tell one from the other except for 'x' and positioning the cursor 09:19:07 it's rock disguised as stone i guess... not sure it's an issue in pan though, since the walls can be any colour there anyway 09:19:31 and pan is always made of weird panstuff 09:19:35 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:20:12 I've had levels of metal in pan, not sure about stone 09:20:47 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:46 oh huh, yeah 09:21:48 i guess you can get stone 09:22:15 executioners are eligible for being mons_alloc[8], not sure about aboms 09:22:16 personally, i'd say to disable that 09:22:27 you can also get stone-coloured rock 09:22:43 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:23:02 yeah, pan should probably just be made of panstuff, other than vaults 09:24:09 yeah 09:24:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:45 ouch, you can get hellion walls and floors... 09:34:40 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:32 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:02 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:04 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:10 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:42 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:56 D11 - again not a single branded short blade 10:05:00 boooooooooooring! 10:07:21 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:19 03dolorous * raab6ca6dcb13 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc shout.cc shout.h wiz-mon.cc): Remove redundant force_monster_shout() function. 10:34:16 kilobyte: are you good for me to merge out trunk to combat rewrite? I'm just going to stash these changes instead of try and finish the commit. 10:35:31 it's your choice, I can't think of any reason to rush it 10:47:20 kilobyte: the new targetting goodness for storms and clouds don't work in tiles, right? 10:49:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51:32 galehar: currently, only partially: you can't distinguish between "possibly affected" and "likely/surely affected" 10:51:55 yes, that's what I meant 10:52:02 at least one person complained about the colour scheme not working well in console on some cases, too 10:52:33 should be easy to fix by just reducing the brightness for "possibly affected" 10:52:35 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:47 lightmagenta/magenta wasn't a thought-out decision, just a simple extension of the old version (magenta) 10:56:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:58:49 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:16:19 03zaba * r8be1362ce3ab 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (branches/lair.des builder/rooms.des): Use dgn.is_validating for some more cases. 11:16:29 03zaba * reee764c2a599 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Make basic_altar "transparent". 11:22:38 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:57 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Easter!] 11:32:11 On dying/winning, can't leave inventory just by pressing space enough times. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3855) by elliptic 11:33:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:30 Ping the Sneak (L3 KoAs) (D:1) 11:47:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:55 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:12 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:02 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:19 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:06:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:39 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:32:29 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35:09 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:43 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:23 having trouble due to being a git noob... as far as I can tell my local repository is up to date, but every time I compile I'm getting an older version 12:42:49 Wensley, what do you do to update it? How do you tell that it's up to date? 12:45:46 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:46:28 here are the steps I took, using msysgit on windows: navigated to the shallowest level of my local crawl source directory that shows up as being registered with git (the master branch), performed a git pull, and then navigated to the source directory a few folders in and used make. but when I go to play the game, it shows a 0.8 version number and the class select screen isn't categorized... 12:46:30 ...like it should currently be (I last updated my repository many months ago) 12:47:17 you're probably still pulling from sourceforge 12:47:25 ah, that might be it 12:47:26 ah, that'd do it 12:48:08 is re-cloning from the new repository the best option? 12:49:01 just change the remote url 12:49:04 and pull 12:49:24 git remote set-url origin 12:49:56 okay, thanks :) 12:50:25 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:21 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:00:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:26 does anyone have a thought for a good way of presenting crawl's spell schools? 13:10:47 i've been trying to think of a way to do it that allows for seeing what's in a school, how good/used the spells in a school are, etc. 13:11:21 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:15 Eronarn: do you mean in documentation or as a dynamic in-game reference? 13:14:16 Wensley: i mean more for development purposes, it's quite hard to get a big picture view of how many current spells there are, how used they are, what school combos do/don't have spells, and stuff like that 13:17:40 how easy is it to parse the spell definitions (spell level, schools, etc.) from the source code? is there a file devoted just to defining spells? 13:17:55 spl-data.h, yes 13:18:31 because if there is, you could just write a script to parse it with each update and populate a little database and then select from it however you want, with some preset queries like "spells listed by school in order of level", etc 13:19:24 I agree that it would be really useful to have an up-to-date reference for where all the spells are this week 13:20:11 "list of spellbooks containing [spell]", "spells sorted by frequency of spellbook presence" 13:20:52 it's not so much getting the data that is a problem, but presenting it 13:21:32 like, up to 3 choices from our 10 or 11 or whatever spell schools = huge number of combinations 13:21:57 am I naming categories that you'd like to see, or do you have something more specific in mind? 13:23:29 a ton of lists wouldn't necessarily be helpful 13:23:48 some kind of visual reference would be better 13:24:19 give me an example of a chart you'd like to see 13:24:56 a good example would be seeing what schools or school combos have the greatest density of useful spells 13:26:12 and you can determine useful by number of characters who memorised the spell / number of characters who found the spell? 13:26:16 can you come up with a good definition of useful? 13:27:29 parse morgues, find how many players memorized it 13:28:05 yeah, it's not ideal but it's a decent proxy and very low effort to set up 13:40:05 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:15 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:56 Okay, but how much effort would it be to implement a more ideal solution to spell-tracking stats? Morgues only currently track spells known upon game end, and I'd be wary of weighing spells on that alone. I'd like to see two things: 1) A counter of the number of times each spell is cast, and 2) Entries in the player history (or whatever the end of the morgue file is called) upon memorizing... 14:05:58 ...spells and forgetting spells. Would this be hard to implement? 14:07:34 learning spells is usually kept track of in notes 14:07:42 not particularly, but i'm not sure it's really worth it 14:07:43 although that's an option that can be turned off 14:08:11 it doesn't necessarily mean much if you cast a spell x times a game vs. y times 14:08:13 Eronarn: I think it would be worth it to know at what levels spells are memorized and forgotten, and for how many turns the players bother to keep them around 14:08:24 a lot of people never bother to forget spells 14:08:47 but if they ever do, that's not currently represented in the morgues 14:08:55 A list of spells based on popularity would also be interesting to compare to an old one. The chaosforge wiki has an extremely out of date list like that http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Table_of_spell_popularity_among_winners 14:09:04 yeah, number of casts isn't really meaningful, because that's not really comparable between spells 14:09:12 yeah, but we don't really need perfect data or anything 14:09:22 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:35 i think counting spell lists in morgues would be sufficient 14:09:37 I feel like "spells known at game end" is less-than-perfect enough to warrant something better 14:09:44 for example, summon spells will probably show up as underused relative to other spells 14:10:03 but that's going to be due to them being annoying to use, rather than summoners being weak 14:10:19 what would the purpose of this be? 14:10:21 we're already incorporating elements of human judgment here by separating spells into "useful" and "not useful" 14:10:37 I'm just trying to allow us to create a more accurate picture 14:10:42 borgnjor's is cast hardly at all, that doesn't make it a bad spell, or weak, or unpopular, or anything 14:11:21 MarvinPA: right now i'm going through the books to make .9 proposals 14:11:31 i think human judgement is actually pretty good in terms of figuring out which spells are underused or overpowered and so on, for the most part 14:11:36 I'm not saying it should, obviously spells will need to be considered on their own terms. but, for instance, how often do people memorize borg's and then never use it? I feel like this is a question that we could be well served answering 14:11:43 some stats are nice too of course 14:11:48 but not huge piles of them 14:11:52 it'd be nice if there were a better way to get a glimpse of the way schools are structured overall rather than trying to use memory or just read the existing books 14:11:56 Wensley: i don't see why that would be relevant, really 14:12:16 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:12:23 what would it mean if a lot of people memorized it but didn't use it? 14:12:28 what would it mean if they did? 14:12:41 i can't think of anything meaningful 14:12:55 that has to do with that spell itself, anyway 14:13:00 I'd say that a spell that is often memorized but never used cannot be classified as "useful", in Eronarn's terms 14:13:06 it might mean "crawl is too easy", but 14:13:18 i think that's not true at all 14:13:24 but borgnjor's is *clearly* incredibly useful 14:13:27 right 14:13:46 I'd prefer stats to back that up rather than testimony 14:13:55 well, go collect them 14:13:57 "number of casts" isn't going to back that up 14:13:59 even if it is used very infrequently compared to how often it's memorised, the cases when it is used literally save your life 14:14:06 well, I'll go implement the tracking, then 14:15:02 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:16 -!- Pace has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:52 MarvinPA: how do you feel about metabolic being a buff spell that EHs (at high power) and maybe passive freezes stuff adjacent to you? 14:16:07 i think it'd see a lot more use and be more interesting than 'EH but everyone on screen' 14:16:16 that sounds a lot more useful, yes 14:16:19 i think that would be an improvement 14:16:28 since you wouldn't get one stab and then everything else waking up 14:16:29 you basically never want to just EH everything on screen at once 14:16:52 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:01 only thing is whether it would be too powerful that way 14:17:16 although level 7 is pretty high 14:17:18 hexes could use some powerful endgame spells, anyways 14:17:26 true enough 14:17:30 although then it should clearly be charm/ice because it's cast on yourself! 14:17:34 (haha self/other split) 14:17:36 MarvinPA: dieeeeeeee 14:17:39 :P 14:17:44 haha 14:18:08 my priorities for .9 with spells: make charms/hexes not suck, purge old spells, fix some book quirks, alchemy, add new spells 14:18:09 although the thing is, eh is plenty powerful as an endgame spell 14:18:12 this should be addressed too 14:18:18 maybe it needs a lower power cap 14:19:04 i think the problem there is more that stabbing lets you oneshot everything, even later on, and even with only 10 stabbing or so :/ 14:19:13 what's wrong with early-game spells still being useful lategame? 14:19:20 well, that wouldn't be true if putting things to sleep was more difficult 14:19:41 well, there's invis stabbing too 14:19:42 ais523: there's a difference between "useful" and "game-winning" 14:19:50 MarvinPA: and confused stabbing 14:19:50 indeed 14:19:57 although if nothing was game-winning, people would just lose 14:19:57 it'd be more interesting if more of that sort of thing was used 14:20:00 the only thing EH could be helpful with are draconians, with their surprisingly low MR 14:20:25 you can eh cerebov with vuln 14:20:45 what's the current power cap for EH? 14:20:58 50 i think 14:21:06 literally 1 in 8 wins in 0.7 have been spen 14:21:09 and that is ridiculous 14:21:11 probably better to just fix the MResistance formula then 14:21:44 you should be able to eh anything with vuln, IMO 14:21:48 why 14:21:51 it's a L2 spell 14:21:56 because vuln is rare 14:22:01 and so it should enable insane things 14:22:14 not that rare 14:22:22 'also, not that insane' 14:23:56 hm, wonder if cigotuvi's should be axed 14:24:10 because it's really pretty worthless right now 14:24:14 people found a use for it in combination with my sticks-to-snakes bug, but the bug's been fixed 14:24:25 i don't think we should keep spells in just because people find a use for them 14:24:45 rip rupert farming 14:25:36 slimify, abandon jiyva, poly wands, crusade card 14:25:39 it'll work 14:25:59 nah, uniques lose their spells when slimified now too 14:26:07 oh, well that's good i guess 14:26:31 if we axed ciguotvi's we could actually get rid of morphology 14:26:53 well, if we axed cigotuvi's and poly other 14:27:07 everything else is in at least 1 other book, petrify is in 3 (!) other books 14:27:09 rupert farming? 14:27:30 ??rupert farming 14:27:30 rupert farming[1/6]: Turn Rupert into a jelly, feed him items until he splits a bunch, polymorph the jellies into animals, use tame beasts on them, and then polymorph them into cool things. 14:28:02 why rupert in particular 14:28:11 i was wondering 14:28:39 I was going to ask that too 14:29:31 it's because he has paralyse + berserk 14:32:27 he has a nice spell set, yeah 14:32:38 would work with any unique of your choice really :P 14:34:31 add a jelly demon so that you can do it with mara 14:34:44 (remove demon polymorphing jeez) 14:37:00 +1 14:48:08 Religion screen inaccessible in ASCII mode (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3856) by camino 15:03:18 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:41 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:50 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:10 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:44 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:52 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:29 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:18:22 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:41 From the build notes: "New experimental compile time option: EUCLIDEAN." Do I compile with EUCLIDEAN=y to enable this? 15:19:07 yes 15:31:17 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:12 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:19 03galehar * r01be2b27327f 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Euclidean: fix stealth check for diagonal moves. 15:44:26 03galehar * r2ea3644847cf 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Remove a forgotten code block in item_use.cc 15:44:28 03galehar * r9ab19080f3d5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc enum.h spl-cast.cc): Smarter targetting for dispel undead (#3853). 15:44:29 03galehar * rae363b5fa654 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc main.cc): Force easy exit in the end game inventory menu (#3855). 16:38:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:10 yeah, great... fucking random double hits 16:43:13 stupid crawl 16:46:13 that ghost never did more than 10 damage.. and then suddenly it does 2 attacks in one turn for 15 damage each 16:46:37 that just sucks incredily 16:47:26 and i've been fighting it for like 100 turns already 16:47:27 speed randomisation shouldn't allow 2 attacks. At worse it's one move and one attack. 16:47:36 *worst 16:47:45 no movement involved 16:48:23 maybe your attack delay was high 16:48:35 damn it.. and it was the first time in like 30 games that i found anything useful 16:49:14 yeah, it was attack delay 16:49:22 sabre with skill 2 in short blades 16:49:52 a +3,+2 whip of electrocution (weapon) 16:50:18 f - a +3,+2 elven sabre (weapon) 16:50:21 oh, not trunk anymore 16:50:38 true 16:50:41 my fault then 16:51:11 but anyways, nice finish of a day full of shitty crawl games 16:51:25 i'm starting to wish i had more to do at work 16:51:37 g'night 16:51:39 we could probably add something about attack delay to @ 16:51:43 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 16:51:45 that might be reasonable 16:53:00 or a hack so the rng is nicer to him ;) 16:53:18 (: 16:53:37 attack delay is fairly opaque at the moment though 16:53:38 @ already tells you about attack speed 16:53:43 oh 16:53:43 it already does 16:53:47 well then 16:53:47 (: 16:55:31 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:00:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:48 being able to start with a trident is a bit weird 17:36:41 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:04:02 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:10 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:35 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:43 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:48:51 -!- Pace has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:05:19 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:30 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:34:47 -!- Whitewater has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:50 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:59 -!- dg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:09 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:51:25 -!- DarkGod has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:38 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:19 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:46 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:12 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest43681 20:26:16 -!- Whitewater has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:37:14 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:39 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:35 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:46 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:07 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:06:13 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 21:16:44 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:19 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:28 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:48 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 22:06:05 -!- the_glow_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:13 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:06:14 -!- the_glow_ is now known as the_glow 22:28:00 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:59 wish that creatures that were fleeing would leave an intermittent trail of blood 22:34:48 really wish that creatures with the "bleeding" status would leave an intermittent trail of blood as they flee 22:37:08 go code it :) 22:37:13 it shouldn't be hard 22:37:33 when ench_bleed decays, splatter blood as if hit by a weak weapon 22:37:41 (weak enough that it only splatters in the current square) 22:38:30 I think I'll do that, but I anticipate that I'll be foiled by git before too long 22:55:58 Wensley: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/ 22:56:01 Eronarn: Add a rc option for extreme gore :D 22:56:17 Zao: unfortunately, that has in-game effects 22:56:32 vampires, hounds, sharks, and some other things are woken up when blood is spilled 22:56:44 Ooh, fun. 22:57:02 the solution, therefore, is to add a new Nec/Tmut spell 22:57:11 Zone of Hemophilia 22:57:18 Steal the Bloody Mess perk from Fallout and make it a mutation. 22:57:34 Or an Xom effect. 22:57:50 xom might be able to do quad damage 23:26:27 is there a guide to making patches? 23:26:45 also thanks for the link, Eronarn 23:27:09 Wensley: git format-patch -n, where n is the number of patches to make, each being one commit 'large' 23:27:58 so if you have 3 commits you've made that you want to turn into patches, git format-patch -3 (maybe it's just 3, or it's -n 3, i honestly forget) will make 3 separate patches 23:28:31 this can be unwieldy if you have a ton of commits; unfortunately the ways of squishing patches together are kind of awkward 23:29:16 ideally, you'll make one commit per thing you're trying to do 23:29:37 if you don't, git provides a lot of ways to fix that 23:32:27 You're assuming competence. Dangerous thing to do. 23:43:45 -!- frogfrog has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:55 ah, but what counts as a 'thing'? :P 23:55:17 "oops, fix this typo i just committed in my last patch" is not a 'thing'