00:00:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-203-g749b47f (32) 00:04:40 so I have all the tools I need to finish parsing the file 00:04:49 now to figure out how to make the front end that will use this information 00:05:41 tomorrow I'll have to ask due to give me that sneaky code that automatically read the groups from re() into a player object 00:11:56 alright the program can now open a file if you input the url of the dump 00:11:59 who wants to check it out 00:13:32 http://pastebin.com/EF6sveu4 <--- here it is anyway 00:14:14 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:12 Windows builds of 0.8 branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.8.0-a1-164-ge41dd81 00:50:21 Pre-release branch 0.8 on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.8.0-a1-164-ge41dd81 (32) 01:18:35 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:40 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:58 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:33 with the regexps I'm using the parse dumps, I was trying to use this --> .*$ in order to match all characters until the end of line, so that I could avoid using the dotall flag 03:09:43 however, now my regexp doesn't match when it did before 03:09:58 I also tried .*\n 03:22:01 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:48 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:01 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:40 Nemelex disappointed by use of alchemist card (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3825) by nubinia 03:43:43 I'm plotting a horerndously EVIL Lair:$ vault 03:52:46 O - the eveningstar of Premature Burial (weapon) {freeze, freeze, Stlth++} (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3826) by mikee 03:56:03 due: <3 03:56:19 kilobyte: Rubicon Lair:$ :D 03:56:24 (Yes, I *love* rubicon.) 04:00:35 the regexp I am using to grab the name of the armour a player is wearing breaks if the armour has more than one word in its name, or has properties 04:01:03 how can I match every word until end of line, as well as {, }, -, and + 04:01:08 Why do you need the name of their armour? 04:01:14 to determine base ac 04:01:15 ([^\n]*\n) 04:01:17 for GDR calculation 04:01:26 without using \n is my next question 04:01:32 why without using \n? 04:01:44 I got myself in some sort of trap I think 04:01:48 what? 04:01:52 not using \n is a silly limitation 04:01:54 all my regexp will work if I completely avoid searching for \n 04:01:59 hah 04:02:05 you're not using r"", are you? 04:02:12 even though I know it is there if I toss it in anywhere the regexp returns 0 04:02:19 I am using r'' 04:02:28 I should change those to "" hm 04:03:08 >>> re.compile("([^\n]*)(\n)").match("Test\n").groups() 04:03:09 ('Test', '\n') 04:03:18 -!- ghallber1 is now known as grine 04:03:31 (?Pno\sarmour|[\+\-][0-9]\s[a-z][a-z\s\{\}\+\-]+) 04:03:37 is what I tried. haha 04:04:07 Hmmmm, rubicon as Lair:8 vault is buggy 04:04:14 not sure whether or not you have to escape all the characters like I did, inside the [] 04:04:34 You need to escape all regexp-specific characters 04:04:38 I will try using \n again 04:04:53 You don't need to escape + inside a character set 04:04:56 and throw in \S*)\n 04:05:02 and if you put - at the beginning of the end you shouldn't need to 3escape that either 04:05:04 at the end 04:06:09 oh but then that still won't work because of whitespace 04:07:24 how can I say "as many \S*\s as you can find" 04:08:22 (\S*\s)+ is at least one \S*\s (and as many more as possible after that) 04:08:40 if I nest () will it cause problems 04:08:59 i.e. use parenthesis while already in a group block 04:09:52 I don't know what flavour of regular expression you're using, but if it's sensible, it shouldn't be a problem 04:09:56 I think 04:12:19 re.compile(r"([+-][0-9]\s(\S*\s)+)").match("+3 salamander hide armour").groups() ('+3 salamander hide ', 'hide ') 04:13:39 oh I'm an idiot I can just do [\S\s] and it will match any non-escape character right? 04:13:45 yes 04:14:04 all because I have DOTALL flagged and can't figure out why the RE won't work without it 04:17:09 I just realized I kinda have to make sure to read all randart properties of worn gear as well, because there is no slaying total :/ 04:17:41 -!- zlkndu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:18:05 hi! i get this error when compiling git 0.8 branch on linux with sound support: 04:18:08 libutil.cc: In function ‘void play_sound(const char*)’: 04:18:08 libutil.cc:120:35: error: cannot convert ‘std::string’ to ‘const char*’ for argument ‘1’ to ‘int system(const char*)’ 04:18:08 make: *** [libutil.o] Error 1 04:18:29 in...teresting. 04:18:48 pretty possible, it's not a well-tested code path :( 04:18:56 ah, kilobyte is here 04:19:01 system(utf8_to_mb(command)); 04:19:18 i do not know how to fix that! 04:19:31 ok, no sound for me... 04:20:15 -!- zlkndu has quit [Quit: zlkndu] 04:30:29 sorry, work. Just add .c_str() there. 04:30:46 (sorry for delay, but he left 1 minute later, not 10...) 04:31:27 heh 04:31:29 no,it's fine 04:31:36 I assumed it was something like that but 04:32:17 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:28 turns out my whole issue before was due to forgotten \s 04:44:06 the same line I was trying to get the pip value for warding I used [+\.][+\.] instead of [+\.]\s[+\.] 04:44:25 so it messed up anything else I tried to search for on that line but oddly enough didn't break the whole RE 04:44:45 I can infact use \n 04:53:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:59 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:43 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:28:59 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 05:36:55 @??orc wizard 05:36:56 orc wizard (06o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility. 05:44:46 interface idea: highlight (with a brand) monsters that are wielding/wearing a non-plain weapon/armor 05:44:47 or have revealed possession of a wand 05:44:47 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:37 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Stone Soup Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 05:48:40 moin 05:48:45 added to wiki: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_ideas&#highlight_monsters_with_non-trivial_gear 05:49:48 we could show that orc as ô :p 05:50:13 hah 05:50:32 :D 05:50:42 a few broken terminals aside, you can pile up several accent marks on every letter -- Vietnamese does that 05:51:11 in tiles, you could increase the sprite's brightness 05:51:31 i'll edit that in too 05:52:54 about problems with sound: now that license problems are gone, we can ship a set of sounds now 05:53:28 before, we would have to record pretty much every single effect ourselves 05:53:58 of course, sounds matter mostly for tiles players 05:54:00 ortoslon: not really good enough 05:54:20 ortoslon: you can raise the luminence all you like and it'll look terrible in a lot of instances :) 05:54:45 yeah, and be hard to distinguish if there's no baseline nearby 05:55:14 ok then, yet another tiny icon in the corner :) 05:56:46 oh god this map is EVIL :D 05:57:01 which map? 05:57:02 http://sprunge.us/UcGP 05:57:11 Zaba: the one I am toying with 05:57:58 Zaba: thumbs up or thumbs down? 05:58:38 I'm not sure I understand the idea behind kobold_kamp_hatch 05:59:13 it forces downwards escape hatches to be placed on the level 05:59:23 that way you don't *have* to go down via the fort 05:59:58 "It's a general design principle, we try to avoid throwing numbers at the player unless it is really necessary" -- is it feasible that we have some raw_mode setting in config file that would allow seeing raw spell success percentage? 06:00:12 due, I'd make it a 1x1 vault with just a > 06:00:13 maybe exact spell damage range too 06:00:21 Zaba: hm 06:00:38 Zaba: it didn't seem to place properly like that but let me try again 06:00:41 due, regarding the camp itself, well.. it looks promising, but right now the amount of rooms doesn't seem to correspond to the amount of interesting things 06:01:18 Zaba: the internals need massive tweaking. 06:01:31 It needs to be smaller I think. 06:02:15 seems like that, yeah 06:02:28 also, no need for so many @s 06:02:38 neighbouring ones will likely form a single corridor anyway 06:03:22 ah 06:03:36 a corridor from a @ takes a shortest path to the closest floor cell that's outside the vault, and that includes floor cells of other corridors built by other @s 06:04:47 oh man 06:04:50 smaller is so much better 06:04:55 http://sprunge.us/VUQD 06:05:39 or 06:05:46 http://sprunge.us/TJCI 06:06:46 or... 06:06:56 http://sprunge.us/ZGhN 06:07:13 isn't this line on the server incorrect: "Q)uit or P)lay or S)print or Z)ot Defence in 0.8 now!"? 06:07:25 P lets me play 0.9 not the 0.8 pre-release 06:08:26 erm, scratch that 06:08:28 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:08:40 ok before I go to bed 06:08:45 here is what I got goin on 06:08:59 i'm confused about what confused me 06:09:43 http://pastebin.com/9YxNCvYU 06:10:36 now that I was able to get it organized I will be able to fix silly mistakes more easily 06:10:43 and rewrite the inefficient parts 06:10:54 thanks for all the help and advice earlier guys! 06:11:59 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:21 due, smaller looks much better, yeah 06:17:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:24:58 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:29 due, if there will be only one variant of kobold_kamp_hatch, just place it by name and not tag 06:31:40 Yeah 06:31:49 I just copied and pasted from the serial gnoll vault 06:32:00 I meant to look up the syntax but lazy :) 06:53:51 @?? ugly thing 06:53:51 purple ugly thing (06u) | Speed: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | Health: 30-59 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 1207(disease) | Res: 06magic(32), 04rot | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 339. 06:53:57 oh.. 11? 06:54:06 @? ugly thing 06:54:06 cyan ugly thing (10u) | Speed: 11 (act: 110%) | HD: 8 | Health: 32-56 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 1111(elec:8-11) | Res: 06magic(32), 10elec | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 339. 06:54:09 hmm.. 06:59:06 due, name = "nameofvault" instead of tag = "..." :P 06:59:08 due, it's easy :P 07:00:25 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:25 Hi 07:04:46 moin dpeg 07:04:59 dpeg: what do you think about https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_ideas&#highlight_monsters_with_non-trivial_gear ? 07:10:39 dpeg: http://sprunge.us/ZGhN More importantly, do you think this vault is acceptable? 07:10:51 hahah 07:14:40 due, it still seems a bit boring to me 07:14:53 due: sure, but there's no 4 monster at the moment 07:15:00 due, many rooms with just one or two monsters of the same type.. 07:15:19 Zaba: i will work on it 07:15:33 anyway sleep, bye 07:15:36 Zaba: three (kobold, big kobold, kobold wizard) -- I think that's okay for a D:5 vault 07:15:39 due, if you insist on many rooms, at least randomize the connections between them or something :> 07:15:41 due: night! 07:17:01 ortoslon: what do you mean by "accent marks in console"? On the monster list? 07:17:13 ah, K with a ´ etc? 07:17:23 yes 07:17:30 great idea! 07:17:45 Did you talk to kilobyte about it? 07:17:49 !seen kilobyte 07:17:50 I last saw kilobyte at Mon Apr 18 10:54:45 2011 UTC (1h 23m 4s ago) saying yeah, and be hard to distinguish if theres no baseline nearby on ##crawl-dev. 07:18:15 dpeg: kilobyte suggested accent marks 07:18:20 <3 07:18:27 03kilobyte * r2cce0ad51d65 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dbg-asrt.cc libutil.cc libw32c.cc syscalls.cc unicode.h): Hide output charset conversions behind a macro. 07:18:37 03kilobyte * rd93c80fc117b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des: A well-familiar temple layout. 07:18:38 Ideally, we'd introduce a new monster property (special_item for example) and extend the currend branding scheme to go beyond background colours 07:18:38 03kilobyte * r264a91209d3b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (AppHdr.h libutil.cc): Fix build failure with SOUND_PLAY_COMMAND. 07:19:12 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:14 it already can use underlining 07:20:08 dangerous_item_brand = umlaut 07:20:15 or egu etc. 07:20:43 kilobyte: Hi! I am back after three weeks of travel. 07:21:09 make Gastronok a ĵ :p 07:21:20 nice 07:21:50 kilobyte: so any letter can get any accent? 07:23:43 yes, although some terminals may have problems with some of them 07:24:18 i knew you would discuss console before tiles :P 07:24:51 like, b seems to bear no umlaut, caron or whatever in any language except Vietnamese 07:25:04 ah, what a pity 07:25:11 In Latex, you can freely combine anything. 07:25:39 so you can add such marks to anything in Unicode 07:26:38 I think a good deal of popular terminals can do that without problems 07:27:10 cool 07:33:08 a problem in the Zot:5 vault: there's stone you can LRD/Shatter and permarock you can't -- they share the same glyph and colour. It's pretty spoilery what you can dig and what you can't. 07:33:34 making the stone lightgray like everyone else is kind of ugly, though 07:33:52 just make everything permarock :P 07:36:02 not sure if people actually dig there 07:36:12 kilobyte: yes, that is a problem 07:37:22 you can avoid the vestibule and shorten your way on the sides 07:37:54 it appears it was made this way intentionally -- SUBST: C = X:900 c:100 = 07:39:01 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:25 kilobyte: yes, there is a very small chance that a secret door is in that row. 07:42:42 The secret door is by me, the chance for non-permarock I inherit -- but I could be wrong. 07:44:34 another alternative would be using dark magenta for stone 07:49:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:21 dpeg: There's some discussion on the butchering stuff. I'm gonna go ahead and finish the work I'm doing now before looking at other inconsistencies but it would be nice to get a final answer on how it should work in the end. 07:50:01 ZotDef uses regular grey stone 07:50:09 Cryp71c: meow? 07:51:57 Rawr 07:52:04 Mornin 08:02:26 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:10:10 kilobyte: i'd probably be worried more about the font than support from the actual terminal 08:10:42 people customize fonts quite a bit, and not all of them have very great unicode support, especially if you start doing things that are too weird 08:10:51 Bad fonts are the devil. 08:12:19 well, a font isn't necessarily "bad" just because it doesn't support the entire unicode spectrum 08:14:14 Well no, but it shuold support most common umlauts, accents etc. 08:17:45 you would be surprised how few characters are supported by fonts you can BUY. resp. you have to buy extra if you want support for characters outside of extended or even basic latin1 08:20:37 what's going to be done about zotdef for 0.8, by the way? 08:21:44 doy: most terminals can synthesize combining characters... not all, though 08:21:55 so it certainly can't be on by default :( 08:25:41 What fonts are you guys using for terminals? 08:28:21 i'm using the 'fixed' bitmap font that comes with x11 08:28:29 either 6x10 or 7x14 typically 08:29:21 grine: Consolas is one of the few good things made^Wbought by Microsoft, IMO it trumps other fonts by a good margin 08:29:31 although ironically it's best on FreeType :p 08:30:17 it ridiculously fails with no antialiasing, too 08:32:07 kilobyte: Yeha I used Inconsolata for a while. 08:32:16 i can't stand no antialiasing anywhere except terminals, and i can't stand antialiasing in terminals 08:32:24 i really don't know what the difference is 08:32:26 Deja Vu Sans Mono now. 08:38:35 there's quite a big difference between Inconsolata and Consolas. Letter shapes are very similar, line thicknesses are not. 08:38:41 doy: depends on the font 08:39:15 doy: for example, old Windows ones (Courier New, ...) were made for no antialiasing 08:39:59 well, yeah, but i mean things like deja vu sans mono still bother me as terminal fonts 08:40:44 -!- Finn is now known as MadCoyote 08:41:13 yeah, Deja Vu Sans is ugly at small sizes 08:41:51 maybe that's what it is 08:42:15 most antialiased things don't look as good at small sizes as bitmap fonts do 08:45:08 I have Deja Vu Sans Mono Bold 18. 08:45:22 Deja Vu Sans Mono 13 Regular here. 08:45:27 uhm, to the contrary! Bitmap fonts are hard to read at small sizes, antialiasing improves readability a lot... when done right, that is. 08:45:32 <-- has bad eyes 08:46:23 an extreme example: http://angband.pl/font/decl.png 08:46:54 it's hand-made antialiasing, though 08:47:35 dpeg: I agree with you about font size... we have big monitors, no need to use tiny windows 08:48:34 I have a quite slim terminal for my irssi/mutt/rssreader 08:49:16 So I can't have too large a font. 08:50:08 I use virtual desktops a lot, rather than having multiple windows shown at once 08:50:14 so every of them is maximized 08:50:23 how big is your monitor? 08:50:45 maximized windows on 21' monitor are not usable for me :) 08:51:02 I use a tiliing WM on a 14" screen, I like having the irc on the side. 08:51:34 this one at work, 20" 08:52:23 03kilobyte 07unified_combat_control * r7e171511b2bd 10/crawl-ref/source/abyss.cc: Convert a bunch of #ifdef DEBUG mprf() into dprf(). 08:52:28 03kilobyte 07unified_combat_control * ra5b6c13e04c2 10/crawl-ref/source/arena.cc: Fix some misclassified arena messages. 08:52:29 03kilobyte 07unified_combat_control * rf1550f57c5a3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc database.cc directn.cc): Shorten some mprf(DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS, ...), axe unused debug #ifdefs. 08:52:31 03kilobyte 07unified_combat_control * r7edf26d1b48f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Don't capitalize error, diagnostic and wizard messages. 08:52:32 03kilobyte 07unified_combat_control * r41d6e07ffc64 10/crawl-ref/source/ (format.cc format.h message.cc mpr.h): Capitalized mprf(). 08:52:49 1280x1024 only, too... so the font is Consolas Bold 16 for regular use (and Consolas Bold 20 for Crawl, where having more lines than ~30 is no good) 08:52:52 kilobyte: well... i don't use fonts *that* small(: 08:53:07 kilobyte: <3 08:54:01 Cryp71c: I hacked it around only, since I realized it's better to just go with translations instead of messing with all mpr()s twice 08:54:22 there's surprisingly few of these, too 08:55:09 3600 total strings, 1100 variable ones 08:55:23 kilobyte: better to go with translations? 08:55:41 I mean, support for translations 08:55:58 ah, right. 08:56:18 What about your original plan would've called for messing w/ mpr()s twice? 08:57:35 my current idea is using symbols like: "$N(orc wizard) $V(kick) $N(you) in the nads." 08:59:02 only 3600 strings? is that per source code line or per call 08:59:48 well, "only". nethack has only twice that per source code line :) 09:00:35 English has very little inflection, functions we use are: 1. adding articles to nouns (DESC_A, DESC_THE), 2. pronoun for an actor, 3. pluralizing nouns, 4. putting verbs into 2nd/3rd person, 5. genitive of a noun 09:00:57 3600 strings as in, 3600 mpr() calls. 09:01:44 Crystal plate ego tile candidate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3827) by Curio 09:04:00 kilobyte: could you easily do a statistic about how often those different cases are used? this would help you to determine how complex the translation procedure(s) at least have to be 09:04:48 a rarely used case still needs to be implemented, so I don't see how that would help 09:05:08 I already found out that such grammar functions would have to be recursive 09:05:58 like, "foo skeleton": in languages that have noun cases, the translation is not straightforward 09:06:16 if the proper solution would be too costly, you might get away with a cheap hack 09:06:47 but if the case happens too often, a proper solution would be better 09:06:49 lol 09:06:52 lol 09:07:15 since the functions are code already, there's no extra cost for complexity 09:07:58 am I right that mpr() calls are only using fixed strings without format specifiers? then you already have 2000 more or less easily translatable strings. 09:08:03 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:15 the extra cost is in developing it, not running :) 09:08:40 that's what I meant 09:08:58 many of the grammar functions would be table lookups 09:09:34 like, noun cases in Polish have so many exceptions it would be pointless to try to do them with rules 09:12:07 Cryp71c already coalesced DESC_CAP_A with DESC_NOCAP_A and DESC_CAP_THE with DESC_NOCAP_THE 09:12:50 I'd go further replacing that by always using just a plain name, and doing further transformations on the string 09:14:30 the knowledge that MONS_SIGMUND has a null article while MONS_ORC has a/the would be moved from monster code to messaging 09:15:51 English language module would have a function "give me the indefinite article of X", and would return "Sigmund", "an orc" or "the royal jelly". 09:15:55 kilobyte: Couldn't that be done a little more intelligently? 09:16:22 grine: what do you mean? 09:16:38 Isn't it just a check on whether it's a unique or not? 09:16:52 Maybe with an exception for The Royal Jelly. 09:17:00 that's very far from enough, even for English 09:17:07 Ok, maybe. 09:17:32 Care to give an example? 09:17:43 making uniqueness of monsters affect something grammar-related seems really off 09:18:10 Well it's the cause of the grammar-difference? 09:18:29 I guess the cause is that the given monster has a proper name 09:19:03 whereas uniqueness is a property of monster generation 09:19:57 grine: zombies for example 09:20:59 Ok, I'm just b eing stupid sorry. 09:21:20 Dunno what I thought, cary on :) 09:27:17 I'm afraid the merge of combat will be a nightmare 09:30:01 kilobyte: oh, it will. 09:30:05 Conflicts galore, no doubt. 09:30:18 Though I'm trying to finish it as quickly as I can to minimize em, its not exactly easy. 09:31:48 there's a number of small conflicts that seem to be easy, and then basically whole of fight.cc, where git just gives up and shows a whole-file conflict. Not surprisingly. 09:32:57 actually, it would be better to take your version and then manually apply all of: git diff `git merge-base HEAD master` master -- fight.cc 09:38:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:49 Sounds like a good approach. I've still got to go through stuff once I finish all my changes to ensure that everything looks good, functionality. 09:48:53 functionality-wise. 09:49:08 I've been doing small tests as I've made changes, don't want to merge in a bunch of bugs associated with the rewrite. 09:59:01 rofl 10:00:11 is penance broken or really designed like this? http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Napkin/morgue-Napkin-20110416-215604.txt 10:00:27 oh, wrong morgue 10:00:28 your trog death? thats totally normal 10:00:37 because taking off a shield? 10:00:57 this: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.8/Napkin/morgue-Napkin-20110418-145846.txt 10:01:20 --- 10:01:21 You start removing your armour. 10:01:21 You continue taking off your +3 shield. 10:01:25 You die... 10:01:28 --- 10:01:55 T shield -> dead 10:02:10 shield or not, you were gonna die to those summoned mobs anyways 10:02:10 that's stupid, if I may say so 10:02:28 not necessarily 10:02:45 I had blink, speed and berserk too 10:02:52 Napkin: wrath has been meaning to be reworked for quite some time now 10:03:27 but changing armour has always been a fairly dangerous activity 10:03:41 not armour 10:03:42 shield 10:03:45 taking off a shield 10:03:58 right, same thing 10:04:06 taking off a shield takes a good bit of time 10:04:13 lol, right 10:04:27 Napkin, operating the sub-dimension backpack takes quite a lot of time 10:05:28 apart from the fact, that throwing off a shield takes less than 1 second, it's still not cool, to do penance checks at the beginning of a multiple-turn action 10:05:37 like... eating, for example 10:06:22 penance checks happen regardless of what you were actually doing 10:06:29 seems abusable otherwise 10:06:38 how so? 10:06:58 and whether "throwing off a shield" is even possible depends quite a bit on what kind of shield it is 10:07:39 someone taking off and putting on armour for the time the penance lasts? 10:07:45 Napkin: you get less frequent penance because you happen to change armour more often? 10:07:48 that seems really odd 10:08:00 and yeah 10:08:02 not at all 10:08:17 penance trigger? execute it after the action? 10:08:27 the amount of wrahts will be the same then 10:09:01 kinda defeats the purpose of multi-turn actions 10:09:30 well, ok, remove changing gods in the first place then 10:09:42 there are more options here d: 10:09:45 if you think it's a design decision to do it like that ;) 10:09:52 10:02 <+doy> Napkin: wrath has been meaning to be reworked for quite some time now 10:09:58 as i said at the start of the conversation 10:10:25 doy> kinda defeats the purpose of multi-turn actions <- 10:10:27 that really wasnt the fault of a wrath anyways, it would have been the same if a hill giant had just come around the corner 10:10:57 yeah, what eith said is what i was talking about 10:11:06 what? I already killed a bunch of hill giants 10:11:53 a hill giant could still kill you if you're in the middle of armour swapping 10:12:14 and I'd say a berserking hill giant is a bit difference. And it's the first time ever I die because of taking off a medium shield. 10:12:32 10:09 <+doy> 10:02 <+doy> Napkin: wrath has been meaning to be reworked for quite some time now 10:12:36 this is a more general problem with multi-turn actions 10:12:51 dying to uninterruptible stuff is lame 10:13:23 why do you keep repeating? Should I not argue against "any hill giant would have killed you", doy? 10:13:36 Napkin: i'm not really sure what you're arguing at this point 10:13:59 eith> that really wasnt the fault of a wrath anyways, it would have been the same if a hill giant had just come around the corner 10:14:03 Napkin> and I'd say a berserking hill giant is a bit difference. And it's the first time ever I die because of taking off a medium shield. 10:14:28 you said "a berserking hill giant is a big difference" and i'm saying "yes, i know, wrath needs to be reworked" 10:14:42 unless you really meant something else? 10:14:54 *sigh* 10:15:50 I replied to eith. 10:16:17 ah, okay 10:18:04 well, anyways, pity 10:39:40 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:53 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:47 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:57:24 !coffee Napkin 10:57:25 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of black coffee, brewed by Cerebov. 11:30:07 Rawr 11:32:01 Cryp71c: you don't have any specific plans for redoing aux attacks, right? 11:32:38 Eronarn: not specifically, no. When I did them, it was more of a testbed for bleeding, and I threw in the ministun and ac bypass to give the other aux attacks (with mutations) something. 11:32:41 So, yeah. 11:33:16 dpeg ;) 11:33:27 yeah, i was considering redoing them, and kilo pointed out that it might be better to work off of your branch in case you're making any changes to that code 11:33:35 but afaik you're just changing where/how that code would be called 11:34:19 Eronarn: correct, I may make changes to some methods inside the the aux functions (eg instead of player_unarmed_base_damage I'll be rewriting that to be "actor->unarmed_base_damage") but other than that, not going to be messing with that code 11:38:37 ok then 11:39:00 i want to try and fix auxes and forms for .9 11:39:09 esp. since this impacts octopodes 11:39:36 right now they have the equivalent of claws 3 + horns 3... this is not so good 11:41:35 octopodes have the equivalent of claws 3? it doesn't feel like it 11:41:45 claws 3 is rather huge 11:42:46 elliptic: aux_damage += roll_dice(you.has_claws(), 3); 11:42:51 vs aux_damage += roll_dice(you.has_usable_tentacles(), 3); 11:43:01 (and octopodes have tentacles 3) 11:43:01 oh, just for the aux then? 11:43:12 claws 3 are mainly relevant for the primary attack 11:43:16 that is the primary attack code 11:43:30 the primary attack code uses aux_damage? strange 11:43:44 right now tentacles give claws 3 level damage, but also an aux attack of horns3 level damage 11:43:59 oh, actually, that might be auxes 11:44:01 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:43 okay, yeah, you're right i was looking at the wrong thing 11:45:00 also, what, claws adds damage differently for main vs. aux punches 11:45:02 i hate fight.cc 11:45:47 (claws = +2/level to main, d3/level to aux) 11:47:44 well, aux attacks in general aren't as strong as main attacks, so it makes sense for the bonus to be less 11:48:20 (but yeah, "less" is different from "making up random unrelated numbers") 11:48:31 doy: it's not less, though, just different :P 11:48:58 oh, d3, not 1/3 11:49:00 heh 11:49:05 yeah, that's dumb 11:50:12 i'm thinking that it might be more interesting if auxes were rarer, but had much better effects than punching 11:50:32 rather than getting up to 5 or so weak attacks every time you attack 11:51:05 eronarn: the +2/level is to base damage though 11:51:07 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:16 and the aux_damage might be the actual damage, not sure 11:51:42 but yeah, we all hate fight.cc 11:52:13 giving octopodes a better unarmed attack would help their early game, by the way... not sure it is really a good thing to have yet another strong unarmed race though 11:52:31 elliptic: well, it's +2 to a higher amount of damage, vs. +d3 to a lower amount of damage, so the latter is more percentage-wise but the former still counts for more since a damage boost only helps if you actually beat AC with it 11:52:48 originally OP had tentacle-slaps replace their main unarmed 11:52:55 this was great early on, because horns 3 for every attack 11:53:09 but it got bad rapidly because it meant you didn't get the unarmed boost to damage 11:53:11 quickly glancing over fight.cc, it seems like it could make dungeon.cc seem to be good code 11:53:36 i'd like to see OP get constrict, and maybe poisoning on their bite 11:54:06 interestingly, RL poisonous octopuses actually have curare-like venom 11:54:14 (paralysis + asphyxiation) 11:54:23 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:57 BTW, curare seems like an absurdly powerful needle, still. Do we really need the asphyxiation? Is it used by anything else significant? 11:55:41 Cryp71c: curare is an absurdly powerful needle because it works regardless of throwing skill; the other needles would be powerful if they did that too 11:55:51 it doesn't work on anything with rpois 11:56:37 like frenzy, frenzy would be ridiculous vs. a lot of stuff if it had any chance of working on a non-needle-char 11:56:40 it would be good to get curare in line with the rest of the needle types 11:56:51 whether making them stronger or making curare weaker 11:56:51 curare also got nerfed by the haste/slow nerf 11:57:00 doy: little from a, little from b imo 11:57:03 yeah 11:57:09 doy: the problem is that the other needle types are already completely broken with high skill 11:57:21 needle of paralysis = easy cerebov kill 11:57:26 s/cerebov/anything/ 11:57:33 elliptic: well, that's something else that needs fixing then 11:57:34 (: 11:57:35 i don't really like the way needles work on anything, personally 11:57:39 Perhaps adjust the effectiveness scaling so that the minimum effectiveness is higher and maximum effectiveness is lower. 11:57:47 Needles could work on cerebov, but it shouldn't be as successful as it is now. 11:57:48 why do needles work on demons anyway 11:57:51 i think they should only really work on living things 11:57:54 the only good needles IMO are regular poisoned needles 11:58:01 yeah, i think i agree with eronarn 11:58:01 doy: well, they work on orbs of fire 11:58:07 curare is still good :P 11:58:12 elliptic: yeah, that's ridiculously dumb 11:58:16 unless you mean good as in well-designed i guess 11:58:17 and is really probably closer to a bug 11:58:21 eronarn: I meant good from a design standpoint, yes 11:58:25 doy: no, it's actually intentional :/ 11:58:35 Eronarn: whose intentions? 11:58:35 doy: it has been brought up many times though :/ 11:58:59 elliptic: and? 11:59:00 doy: i don't recall who designed the needle stuff... the idea was that they're magic needles, rather than 'just' poison 11:59:05 so they affect even things without circulatory systems 11:59:09 people keep arguing against it? 11:59:32 doy: people say it isn't a bug and don't do anything about it 11:59:44 well, someone with a commit bit should just go fix it then 11:59:45 (: 12:00:09 there's no need for needles to be that powerful 12:00:24 when they share a skill with throwing, which is already reasonably powerful 12:00:51 throwing is reasonably powerful? I don't think people really raise it except for the needles 12:00:56 really? i don't think anyone uses throwing for anything but crazy needlestabbing 12:00:56 well 12:01:02 it crosstrains with powerful things anyway 12:01:03 (: 12:01:23 slings? 12:01:53 yeah 12:02:02 unless slings got nerfed? 12:02:19 most slingers go oka or trog though so they get decent bullets, and then throwing skill just means fewer bullet gifts 12:02:19 most characters who use slings have a great slings apt anyway though 12:03:21 anyway, the problem that's trying to be solved here seems to be that throwing isn't useful late game for most characters 12:03:35 and i think that making needles gamebreaking is a pretty terrible solution to that 12:03:54 ??blowguns 12:03:55 I don't have a page labeled blowguns in my learndb. 12:03:58 ??blowgun 12:04:00 blowgun[1/3]: Blowguns shoot {needles}. In 0.6, whether or not a needle affects a monster depends on a HD, skill and enchantment check. See {blowgun[2]}. Skill and enchantment also affects the duration of effects, see {blowgun[3]}. As of 0.6, blowgun use {throwing} skill instead of {darts} skill. 12:04:19 they would still be plenty useful for non-caster stabbers and assassins and such if they only worked on living things 12:04:21 what about making needles go entirely off of stabbing skill? :) 12:04:39 Eronarn: I was thinking something like that too 12:04:47 maybe? 12:04:50 Make throwable weapons use their item type's skill, instead of "Throwing" 12:04:51 not sure how much i like that 12:04:56 although 12:05:02 (eg, throwing axes uses "Axes" not "Throwing" skill) 12:05:04 it's probably more reasonable than making them use 'throwing' 12:05:10 IDK if that's how it works now or not though. 12:05:10 Cryp71c: meh 12:05:18 needle effectiveness using throwing seems odd generally, yeah 12:05:28 Cryp71c: that would make throwing-based characters basically impossible 12:05:39 doy: maybe. 12:05:47 Cryp71c: throwing weapons shouldn't use their item type's skill; throwing an axe is absolutely nothing like swinging with oen 12:06:14 But once you remove needles from throwing, you're left with a skill whose core character base is minimal. 12:06:30 Cryp71c: well, that's a separate issue 12:06:35 which can be addressed separately 12:06:50 ogre hunters are still quite fun, in my opinion 12:06:53 javelins are pretty great, they're just rare 12:07:02 javelins also break too easily i think 12:08:00 well, you can enchant them up - the issue is that if you want to use throwing you don't find enough javelins to both use some to survive and save some to enchant 12:08:01 javelins are good but not as anything to invest skill in unless you have a nice stack of steel ones 12:08:03 unless you luck into shoals 12:08:08 right 12:08:33 ogre hunters are good pretty much entirely because they have access to large rocks 12:08:41 there needs to be some kind of equivalent to that for other race 12:08:41 s 12:08:45 'javelins' 12:08:55 well, by "equivalent" i include rarity 12:08:56 (: 12:09:27 hmmm, actually 12:09:31 you know what would be a good idea 12:09:35 mertaurs using javelins 12:09:40 vaults needs a new monster set 12:09:49 and the theme for vaults really should be ranged monsters in general 12:09:57 should just load vaults up with some javelin throwers 12:10:25 vaults has that theme already 12:10:33 casmith789: that's my point 12:10:36 yeah 12:10:38 except that it's not an intentional "theme" 12:10:45 and D has it also 12:10:49 it's just "these are the things that happen to appear in mid-dungeon" 12:10:50 (: 12:10:53 and vestibule!! 12:11:10 was vestibule not fixed? 12:11:21 nope 12:11:24 my last vestibule seemed like it had a more reasonable monster set 12:11:28 might have just been luck though 12:11:33 it got some changes, but it still has yaktaurs and stuff 12:11:40 or maybe the new maps just have more explicit placements 12:11:58 someone needs to get on implementing DS monsters 12:12:15 thought they were supposed to be for pan 12:12:16 before someone else puts something on 6 12:12:20 heh 12:12:25 who put something on 6 12:12:46 there was talk of using it for something, i forget what 12:13:33 Eronarn: DS Monsters? 6? 12:13:51 Cryp71c: yeah, old sf proposal 12:13:58 either from me or eronarn, can't remember anymore 12:14:16 i think we both had proposals actually 12:14:24 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:30 i think someone posted one, then you replied with a variant, then i replied with one 12:14:33 but it's been years, so 12:14:34 yeah 12:14:40 (and they're still not done!) 12:14:43 (: 12:15:47 the general concept is to make pan different from the abyss 12:16:00 pan is fun, abyss isn't 12:16:19 Abyss is mostly aggrivating not beacuse its endless and all that mess. 12:16:20 in theme, not gameplay d: 12:16:29 Its because about 40% of anywhere you go, you're blocked. 12:16:46 Or, worse, trapped in a deep water area with no levitation. 12:16:56 if you always had a clear running path, it would be significantly less dangerous 12:16:57 Forced to burn teleportation, trying to get into a different area of the abyss. 12:17:05 that's really kinda the whole point 12:17:25 abyss is okay, abyssal rune is not 12:17:34 yes, that's true 12:17:36 doy: I've had games though where I end up waiting between 5 and 8k turns because I've already burned through teleportation and I'm just WAITING to auto-teleport. 12:17:39 the abyssal rune is pretty terrible 12:17:46 abyss is bad because the gates take way too long to find 12:17:56 Cryp71c: maybe you should bring a teleport ring next time 12:17:56 about half the time I find the rune before a gate 12:18:05 doy: lol, I'll be sure to add that to my low level checklist of stuff to have. 12:18:10 casmith789: seriously? 12:18:12 yes 12:18:23 that's... not my experience at all 12:18:29 me neither 12:18:30 gates aren't really all that hard to find 12:18:36 okay 30% 12:18:50 i've never found a rune when i wasn't explicitly looking for one 12:18:57 and i've gotten abyssed a good number of times 12:19:00 abyss is bad because it doesn't scale to remain dangerous, you get sent there too often, and you get sent there without a way to prevent it (hell effects) 12:19:10 my last 2 abyssings after all the abyss changes it has happened like this 12:19:12 not because of getting trapped or exits being hard to find or whatever 12:19:13 it never used to 12:19:19 Eronarn: i don't mind the last one, but yeah, the first two are issues 12:19:20 well 2 games of abyssings 12:19:28 doy: i got abyssed 7 times once doing dis 7 12:19:32 what abyss changes were there? 12:19:36 Eronarn: well, that's just bad luck 12:19:36 (: 12:19:48 exit vaults that never seem to appear 12:19:52 it's not a hell effect any more is it? 12:20:01 now it's not, yeah 12:20:04 malign gateway instead 12:20:46 casmith789: well... perhaps it's a bug then? 12:22:35 or maybe you've just gotten unlucky 12:22:35 (: 12:22:42 perhaps 12:22:49 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 12:23:06 the abyss code is up there on "things nobody actually understands" too, so 12:31:07 can the exit vaults be made more obvious, then? 12:32:38 extending the "you find a staircase" messages to include abyss portals might be reasonable 12:32:52 from ##crawl abyss exit vaults seem to be very rare but present 12:33:12 rarer than previously? 12:33:50 well I thought they were added in .8 12:33:56 i mean, i watched someone get abyssed a day or two ago, and he didn't have any more issues than normal finding the portal 12:34:22 oh, there are actual exit vaults now? 12:34:35 yeah 12:34:52 was the original chance of exit portals left in? 12:34:58 elliptic has been in abyss way more than me and he says it is the same as usual 12:35:03 so I'm sure it is 12:36:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43:10 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:49 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:05 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:37 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:51 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:16 -!- grine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:25 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:06 Ijyb with wand of draining.. 13:47:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:17 oh, right.. only no high-tier wands in sprint 13:55:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:40 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:59:11 back 13:59:17 Eronarn: I don 13:59:26 't understand this "still not done" comment. 14:00:04 b0rsuk was like this too: "I complained about Dr years ago and it's _still_ not done!" What was he thinking, we're hiring coders to get stuff done? :) 14:01:14 i don't think eronarn was being entirely serious 14:01:15 (: 14:01:25 (less sure about b0rsuk) 14:01:26 (: 14:02:08 It is more important to fix old stuff, but much more fun for coders to do new stuff. Important to keep some balance here. 14:02:21 (Also more fun to design new stuff, btw.) 14:04:28 fixing existing stuff is often more fun, because it tends not to require huge framework rewrites 14:04:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:39 at least in AceHack, bugfixes are faster and more enjoyable to knock out then large featuers 14:04:41 *features 14:04:48 (small feature changes are much the same as bugfixes) 14:06:53 ais523: we're talking about overhauling something pretty major, like a god, or a monster set or several spells. This requires first a lot of thought (understanding what the elders wanted, how it works out, how to change it, and what implications that will have). After the change, there almost always further changes will be necessary. 14:07:17 ah, yes, everyone hates doing that 14:07:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:53 and I was talking just from the coding perspective, an "everyone agrees on what to do but nobody wants to do it" perspective; the actual case is normally rather worse than that 14:09:03 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:13 yes 14:13:42 !seen galehar 14:13:42 I last saw galehar at Mon Apr 18 15:46:47 2011 UTC (3h 26m 55s ago) quitting with message Quit: Page closed. 14:21:01 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:05 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:49:18 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:49:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:51 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:18 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:21 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:43 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:07 if I'm just getting started with python I should probably use the newest of the 2 releases right? 15:32:48 I'm reading up and it says that a lot of deprecated features have been removed and the standard library has changed, would this make it difficult to follow along with old books, though? 15:34:10 effo: the way it works is that python 3 came out, and it was better, but everyone's programs were written in python 2 15:34:19 and everyone was waiting for everyone else to upgrade first 15:35:01 the two versions are very similar, though; if you learn one you'll be able to pick up the other easily enough 15:35:19 fair enough 15:36:21 03galehar * rd3fae3f82802 10/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc: Better error message for evoking melded items. 15:36:30 03galehar * rfa3380d0bcbf 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Smarter genus factoring for monsters coming into view. 15:36:31 03ghallberg * r7744edeafb50 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Removed need for sharp weapon when butchering. 15:36:38 yay! 15:37:21 oops 15:37:27 I didn't mean to push this 15:37:34 -!- Guest34177 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:34 oh, not ready yet? 15:37:38 Also hi galehar! 15:37:39 far from it 15:37:43 hi! 15:37:59 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:10 oh, that reminds me 15:38:25 there was that bug with transform melding applying the brand of what you were wielding 15:38:40 relatedly, transforming and attacking a jelly -> corrode your weapon 15:38:50 not sure if the meld fix fixed that too, since erocrawl is behind 15:39:12 Eronarn: the UC getting the brand of the melded weapon has been fixed. 15:39:54 I'll check for corroding weapon. 15:40:28 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:54 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest799 15:41:00 03galehar * r1be7f4d3fefc 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Revert "Removed need for sharp weapon when butchering." 15:47:47 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:01 I totally didn't realize, the bus I ride from work to home (about an hour journey) has internet? 15:49:02 lol. 15:49:33 Its not incredible by any means (300ms delay) but I can irc and git w/ it. 15:51:43 Cryp71c: fixing some bugs on the way? :) 15:53:08 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:32 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:45 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:32 300ms delay for a bus seems quite good. I usually have to wait at least 10 minutes. 15:56:37 Oh wait... 15:56:55 galehar, I keep spiking and d/cing :) 15:57:34 Its hard to keep my focus on crawl-dev because the chat is so interdispersed, IDK if I've actually been d/c'd or if no one is talking 16:02:37 galehar, why revert the no-weapon butchering? did it break something? 16:03:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 16:05:16 -!- effo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:16 Cryp71c, it was quite crude, I pushed it by mistake. 16:05:42 galehar, ah, was just curious. Spotted it in the reflog. 16:06:22 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * ra27170e3cb42 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.h: Clean up removal of mons_self_destructs 16:08:18 Cryp71c: ghallberg (the patch author) wants to keep working on it. I'll make sure it gets done sooner or later, whether by him or myself :) 16:10:49 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:28 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:55 -!- effo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:31 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:03 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:33 -!- eith has quit [] 16:21:56 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:25 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:31:08 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:31 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:21 -!- eith has quit [] 16:35:42 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:03 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:08 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:56 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:36 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:15 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:47 -!- the_glow_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:31 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:42:40 -!- the_glow_ is now known as the_glow 17:42:52 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:29 butchered snake leaves quadruped skeleton (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3828) by Trobe 17:54:55 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:37 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:31 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:48 hmmm, evil zoo on elf:5, and all mid-range elves? 18:43:59 how rare are high-end elves anyway 18:44:37 doy: did you take to playing again? :) 18:44:41 i don't think they show up as actual spawns very often at all 18:44:51 dpeg: a bit(: 18:44:55 no, but they could, they're pretty cool 18:44:59 i'm watching someone else at the moment thugh 18:45:00 though 18:45:02 there was a plan to make them more common, especially since elf was shortened, which i think would be good 18:45:04 We need more threats and less pushovers. 18:45:17 yes, i agree 18:45:44 You couldn't even abuse it too much with spectral thingies, I guess? 18:46:59 if you can, it should be addressed on that end 18:47:09 or by adding more variety of monsters 18:47:09 (: 18:47:33 actually, don't fungi balance out shadow creatures in elf already? 18:47:53 you don't get stationary monsters from it anymore, thankfully :P 18:48:33 blademasters spawn once per the life of the universe currently 18:49:13 i think i've very occasionally ran into a death mage or sorcerer as a normal spawn, but yeah 18:49:47 later elf could definitely do with having blademasters and master archers at least have a slight chance of spawning outside the vault :P 18:49:47 yeah, death mages/sorcerers/demnologists aren't unheard of 18:49:52 although they're still pretty rare 18:49:53 but yeah 18:50:06 the spawns in elf are pretty consistent throughout 18:50:08 they're native to Elf:11 (or :10 maybe), so that pushes their rarity of 1 to 0 18:50:08 that should change 18:51:17 you'd have to fail attempts to generate a monster thousands of times to have the limits relax enough 18:51:40 Is it easy to change these? 18:52:03 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:14 sorcerers have rarity of 17 and are native to Elf:8 18:52:30 it's easy to change them, not incredibly easy to understand what changing them means 18:52:33 (: 18:52:45 rarity is reduced by the square of (your_depth - native_depth) 18:53:08 so before Elf was shortened sorcerers had effective rarity of 16 at the bottom, not that rare 18:53:53 a good start would be bumping up the native depth on everything :P 18:53:53 now they have only 1 18:54:04 yeah 18:54:21 yeah, drop the native depth of everything in elf by 2 18:55:37 Was native depth forgotten during the Elf cut? 18:57:48 dpeg: re: that vault from last night, it was actually just the concept of having all three down stairs behind an early vault of kobolds -- it specifically places escape hatches elsewhere on the level though. 18:57:49 I guess so 18:57:49 Depending on this, changing Elf monster depth is a bug fix or not. If it is, it can go in 0.8 :) 18:58:04 due: yes, I noted and I liked that. 18:58:17 dpeg: I liked the idea too :) 18:58:17 but even then, blademasters couldn't realistically spawn outside the vault 18:58:25 dpeg: I wish rubicon wasn't as rare as it is -- I love that vault so much. 18:58:44 due: increase its weight if you like! 18:58:49 I should! 18:58:57 kilobyte: speaking of weights, would you mind me tweaking your new temple map? 18:59:25 dpeg: yes, i'd consider it a bug 18:59:26 dpeg: sure, I was not sure if you'll like it at all, too 18:59:32 the bumping the depths part at least 18:59:43 they should be made even more common still, but that can wait for 0.9 18:59:44 dpeg: so even reverting is not something I'd object to 18:59:50 kilobyte: it's a cute idea, but I believe it should be rarer than your average temple, to make it stand out more 19:00:40 good point! 19:02:26 03doy * r5fe1e5da06df 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: shorten these native depths, now that elf is shortened 19:04:11 (: a doy commit !) 19:11:51 casmith789: actually, the "found a gateway leading out of the Abyss" message already exists 19:11:58 I know 19:11:58 maybe you just want a force_more? 19:11:59 (: 19:12:03 no that isn't the problem 19:12:09 there were no gates for 7000 turns 19:13:16 another topic... although there are some ideas now at least 19:15:46 but for now: sleep 19:15:48 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:01 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:17:19 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:19:33 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:34 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:52:23 03kilobyte * r44d50ad4df92 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Reword parts of the changelog. 20:02:20 03dolorous * ref92d52fa681 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Fix changelog apostrophes. 20:05:30 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:47:31 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:12 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:33 -!- Guest799 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:40 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:28 !messages 21:11:28 No messages for ortoslon. 21:40:12 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:37 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest18638 21:43:03 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:45 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45:05 -!- Guest18638 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:57 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:58:04 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:03 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:59 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:55 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:48 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:41:20 Sif can gift books that no longer exist. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3829) by elliptic 23:46:21 Throw flame caused a spider to fall off the wall and drown. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3830) by elliptic 23:46:52 you made its feet slippery! 23:46:53 (: