00:02:00 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-100-g1d7d12d (32) 00:23:28 -!- intermezzo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:55 -!- hayenne has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:40 -!- hayenne has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:12 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:36 -!- intermezzo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:42:49 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:03 ktgrey the Geomancer (L10 DDEE) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 11628. (D:9) 01:43:30 !tell greensnark the new DGL looks very nice! 01:43:30 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 01:51:00 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:10 -!- m1nced has joined ##crawl-dev 01:57:07 -!- m1nced has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:16:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:24:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:27 The cyan X for octopode PC looks so cute. 02:29:59 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:34:56 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 02:40:18 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:08 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:07 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:51 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:07 w4ldf33 the Slicer (L8 KoBe) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 6460. (D:7) 03:13:36 w4ldf33 the Slicer (L8 KoBe) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 6279. (D:7) 03:19:08 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:22:38 how do I get the crash log again? 03:22:52 !lm * crash -log 03:22:52 832. w4ldf33, XL8 KoBe, T:6279 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/w4ldf33/crash-w4ldf33-20110412-081336.txt 03:22:58 thanks 03:23:03 :) 04:02:02 uhm, why do we store such flags as strings? 04:04:04 kilobyte: Seen context is totally fucked beyond all belief. 04:04:05 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:04:54 !messages 04:04:54 (1/1) mikee_ said (6h 16m 36s ago): a new player told me recently that sigmund is easy and cited grinder for comparison 04:04:59 excellent 04:05:35 that's bad... and there are two ways to fix that 04:05:39 we must bump Sigmund :) 04:05:49 mm power spiral 04:08:11 kilobyte: I just did in ##Crawl: !tell mikee_ Thanks, that reminds me to make Sigmund harder. 04:08:24 !killsby grinder 04:08:24 842 games for * (ckiller=grinder): 16x Elynae, 13x phyphor, 13x autorobin, 12x Skan, 11x Malyzapan, 11x murphyslaw, 10x ion, 10x auto7hm, 10x Disco, 9x Sebi, 9x Hourscht, 9x NyaaKitty, 8x Luterac, 8x KiloByte, 8x upsy, 8x Moose, 7x TGW, 7x xw, 7x Skincrawler, 7x coyo7e, 6x chalk, 6x Ragdoll, 6x MarvinPA, 6x AlphaQ, 6x Surr, 6x Ponce, 5x Pumpking, 5x Ozone, 5x p0l1cy, 5x jejorda2, 5x beef, 5x meown... 04:08:32 !lg * killer=grinder cv=0.8 04:08:32 No games for * (killer=grinder cv=0.8). 04:08:37 !lg * killer=grinder cv=~0.8 04:08:37 634. MarvinPA the Firebug (L4 LOFE), slain by Grinder on D:3 on 2011-04-12, with 160 points after 4051 turns and 0:10:30. 04:08:45 !lg * killer=sigmund cv=~0.8 04:08:46 1622. Tossi the Chiller (L3 OPIE), slain by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on D:2 on 2011-04-12, with 80 points after 2331 turns and 0:07:18. 04:08:58 He doesn't even compare by half, to be honest. 04:09:10 !lg * killer=grinder cv=~0.8 s=date 04:09:10 Unknown selector date 04:09:14 !lg * killer=grinder cv=~0.8 s=start 04:09:44 i think i looked it up recently and he had just under sigmund's ratio of kills to deaths 04:10:11 Hm, did I kill Sequell? "Oops"! 04:10:52 under? I checked recently, and my results were that he has 4x the ratio, but you need to take different depths into account. 04:11:13 which makes comparing them pretty hard :( 04:12:29 hm, i probably didn't take depth into account 04:12:58 also, Grinder was recently bumped, so you'd need to limit the search to 0.8 games after a certain date 04:13:08 Yeah, I know. 04:13:09 sigmund's 2-7 and grinder's 3-6 though, right? 04:13:13 that too, yeah 04:13:17 I can't remember when that was, thoguh. 04:13:47 there was one change on March 14, then a big one on Jan 14 04:14:11 !lg * cv>=0.8 start>20100120 04:14:12 97787. captainplatypus the Conjurer (L7 DECj), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:4 on 2011-04-12, with 876 points after 5601 turns and 0:30:00. 04:14:14 !lg * killer=grinder cv=~0.8 start>=20110114 04:14:15 601. MarvinPA the Firebug (L4 LOFE), slain by Grinder on D:3 on 2011-04-12, with 160 points after 4051 turns and 0:10:30. 04:14:25 !lg * killer=sigmund cv=~0.8 start>=20110114 04:14:25 983. Tossi the Chiller (L3 OPIE), slain by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on D:2 on 2011-04-12, with 80 points after 2331 turns and 0:07:18. 04:14:31 give it a few days, we don't know when CDO updated 04:14:34 !lm * uniq=sigmund cv=~0.8 start>=20110114 04:14:38 2916. [2011-04-12] Tossi the Digger (L4 OPEE) killed Sigmund on turn 3331. (D:2) 04:14:42 Hm, true. 04:14:51 !lm * cv>=0.8 start>20100120 uniq=sigmund 04:14:52 4879. [2011-04-12] Tossi the Digger (L4 OPEE) killed Sigmund on turn 3331. (D:2) 04:14:54 !lg * killer=sigmund cv=~0.8 start>=20110120 04:14:54 939. Tossi the Chiller (L3 OPIE), slain by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on D:2 on 2011-04-12, with 80 points after 2331 turns and 0:07:18. 04:14:57 !lg * cv>=0.8 start>20100120 killer=sigmund 04:14:57 1685. Tossi the Chiller (L3 OPIE), slain by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on D:2 on 2011-04-12, with 80 points after 2331 turns and 0:07:18. 04:15:05 !lg * cv>=0.8 start>20100120 killer=grinder 04:15:06 685. Tezca the Gusty (L4 HEAE), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by Grinder (wand of frost) on D:3 on 2011-04-12, with 184 points after 2727 turns and 0:11:48. 04:15:10 !lm * cv>=0.8 start>20100120 uniq=grinder 04:15:12 2585. [2011-04-12] w4ldf33 the Ducker (L5 KoBe) killed Grinder on turn 2893. (D:3) 04:15:25 1685 v 685. 04:17:51 Though, his depth is different. 04:19:00 on D:3, the kill ratio is 0.34 Sigmund, 0.75 Grinder 04:19:20 * due cheers 04:19:36 I'm assuming paralysis has that affect. 04:20:22 Did Darshan do anything about elephants? 04:21:50 on D:4, 0.15 Sigmund, 0.24 Grinder 04:22:36 Does Grinder not appear on D:2? 04:22:50 due to the number of players on a level very rapidly diminishing with depth, it's hard to compare absolute numbers from different depths :( 04:22:55 does not 04:23:09 ahh 04:23:30 yes, exactly 04:23:42 and D:4 you might or might not have escape options, ID'd potions, scrolls, wands, etc 04:24:17 it would be nice to be able to specify arbitrary SQL queries. Doing it by hand via !lg/!lm is a pain in the rear. 04:24:52 greensnark: are the logfile -> SQL scripts available somewhere? 04:25:11 kilobyte: Do you have a DB server or access to one where we could replicate the database? 04:27:41 you mean, do I have a machine where there is _no_ SQL server of some sort installed? I turn off Postgres on my phone when not using it due to memory concerns, but otherwise... 04:27:55 Hah. 04:28:22 vserver also means there's little risk in giving login access to trusted people 04:28:23 Is Sequell MySQL or SQLite? 04:30:53 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:18 do we want arbitrary queries for just a select few, or the population in general? 04:36:31 the latter might be tricky to secure 04:36:50 Select few, I think. 04:37:02 Developers + relevant parties. 04:37:25 I'm assuming MySQL permissions/whatever allows one to limit user logins to read-only activities. 04:40:47 I don't know if MySQL improved since I didn't use it for non-trivial tasks for many years... it did have some security issues in the past, but it's possible it's safe now. 04:41:23 Especially in a tightly locked down virtual machine with no direct network access. 04:56:29 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:58 he, in oracle this isn't always possible. if the user is the schema owner you can't prevent that user to drop a table that belongs to him :) 05:05:11 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:08:13 does Oracle allow read-only access? 05:08:26 and for the owner, it's understandable 05:09:38 like: touch meow; chmod a-rwx meow; rm -f meow 05:10:02 yes, it's a bit like that 05:10:25 but ofc you can have non owners having read access to certain objects 05:10:35 *having only 05:13:14 the best practise is to have the sets of login users and schema owners completeley distinct. but in legacy or designed-by-people-who-don't-know-any-better apps you don't always have that :) 05:13:56 I wonder if you can do read-only SQLite. 05:15:52 it at least wasn't designed for that... I guess that even if you can have it read-only, it will be pretty crippled compared to bigger databases. 05:17:31 sqlite seems to have a read-only mode 05:17:48 bhaak: you can just chmod -r the file, too 05:18:53 if you want it to be completely read-only 05:19:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 05:19:20 I _think_ I heard somewhere it fails if one user opens it rw and another ro, but it's likely it's obsolete information 05:19:34 since they improved it a lot recently 05:20:02 from what I heard sqlite had/has performance problems with several concurrent connections 05:20:29 it had that it the past, they made read pretty impressive now 05:20:49 too bad, performance goes to hell anyone tries to write anything 05:21:20 since other connections will reopen the database from start 05:21:28 well, at some point you are better off with a big db :) 05:21:39 exactly! 05:21:59 although I have no knowledge how good mysql's embedded engine is 05:22:33 it was a bad joke, and MySQL's development is dead, which implies it is still a bad joke... 05:25:46 dammit, I copied the logfile and milestones from CDO a while ago (in the raw format), but then somehow managed to misplace that file :( 05:26:09 creating a schema and importing the data is not a big task, if you still have the data :p 05:38:03 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:58 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:56 moin 05:50:15 Zaba: meow! 05:50:36 what's up 05:52:01 Napkin: uhm, I just got a mail from CDO as someone edited a wiki page, yet it's still down for me. Perhaps that's a DNS issue? You didn't reduce the TTL until yesterday, right? 05:54:12 old mail 05:54:25 what does it say when the change was done? 05:54:44 no exim and no apache running yet 05:55:05 i'm currently manually fixing some rsync bug 05:55:12 messed up some ownership 05:57:20 I had the apache yesterday evening for a few minutes - maybe someone managed to do a change then ;) 05:57:31 *running 06:00:30 the IP is 46.4.68.88 and 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:2, right? 06:00:56 the v4 one does ping, the v6 one doesn't 06:01:52 last hop on v6 is hos-bb1.juniper2.rz10.hetzner.de 06:15:40 yes, that's correct 06:15:58 and I just finished fixing the permissions 06:19:08 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:18 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:55 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:20 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:34 hi 06:47:07 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:44 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:54 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:33:34 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:43 Morning 07:39:29 i 07:39:31 hi 07:43:42 -!- evilmike has quit [] 07:44:01 If it weren't for monster_attack_number's, fight rewrite would be a bazillion times easier. 07:46:29 well, that's one of the reasons you're rewriting it 08:00:42 Remember, by nesting the other random number determination within a series of coin flips, the underlying math will be much easier to understand. 08:02:19 So, for example, instead of adding +1D(1D(Fighting)) to your attack rolls, you could flip a coin, and if it comes up 1, flip two more coins, and add +1D(Fighting) for each of those that comes up 1. Players would never notice the difference. 08:13:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:57 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:17 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:19 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:40 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:15 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19:43 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:50 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:31:43 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:34 -!- st_ has quit [] 11:29:35 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:33:51 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:27 !seen Napkin 12:03:28 I last saw Napkin at Tue Apr 12 11:15:58 2011 UTC (5h 47m 30s ago) saying and I just finished fixing the permissions on ##crawl-dev. 12:03:50 hi dpeg 12:05:10 Hi! Poor Napkin, they've stole his DNS? 12:17:45 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:02 nah, dns is ok :) 12:30:08 now, at least 12:30:28 let's see if the thingy is willing to boot too ;) 12:32:12 Napkin: did they screw you or was it a misunderstanding? 12:32:35 i would say the webinterface for managing dns screwed me, yeah ;) 12:32:55 it's like.. "main ip" and then here "details" 12:33:20 !coffee Napkin 12:33:21 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of latte macchiato, brewed by Mnoleg. 12:33:24 and changing "main ip" deleted all settings in "details" without telling me first 12:33:46 and set a time-to-live for the dns name to 24h... grrrr! 12:37:51 When should it be up again? 12:37:51 as soon as i get it to boot - which failed again *sigh* 12:37:51 argh 12:37:51 Hope you can do it... I still cannot use this console properly. CHeers! 12:37:51 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:37:51 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:28 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:28 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: CDO is being moved and down for a while! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 12:39:56 Wop the Insei (L5 VpTm) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 2445. (D:3) 12:44:32 http://i.imgur.com/wXOJ1.png any idea why this books says 'Cheibriados disapproves of the use of such an item' ? 12:46:18 there was a bug with that a while ago 12:46:23 that was supposedly fixed 12:46:42 oh ok, hard to know what versions people in the thread are playing 12:47:28 -!- m1nced has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:09 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:24 -!- upsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:04 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:27 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:23 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:40 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:48 kilobyte, greensnark: any idea, how to enforce the use of ipv4 instead of ipv6? 13:49:26 why would you want that if your host already has full ipv6 connectivity? 13:49:43 because gitorious.org has problems 13:49:51 http://blog.gitorious.org/2011/03/26/improved-ssl-ipv6/ 13:50:05 "We’re still having some issues with the backend for git:// and http:// Git access, so for now they are IPv4 only." 13:50:15 --- 13:50:15 > git --bare remote update --prune gitorious 13:50:15 Fetching gitorious 13:50:15 gitorious.org[0: 2a02:c0:1014::1]: errno=Connection refused 13:50:17 --- 13:50:30 so now i need to enforce ipv4.. and i have no idea how :D 13:50:45 and git, like any non-buggy multi-protocol program, tries ipv4 then 13:50:48 Napkin: yeah. I get that error too. 13:51:13 it doesn't, kilobyte 13:51:19 hmm.. 13:51:27 it shows this warning so you know something is amiss, but it works 13:51:35 ah, yes! 13:51:41 damn, right 13:51:44 thanks :) 13:51:49 one thing less to worry 13:52:14 is CDO supposed to be up (the machine, not services)? 13:52:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:41 the address published in DNS at least isn't working 13:54:21 LRD shatters later than it should (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3796) by minmay 13:55:16 I guess this means "yes, it is up" 13:56:19 -!- m1nced has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:57 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:48 03dolorous * ra333244f9f7f 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Fix unused variable warning. 13:59:50 03galehar * rf11d846bbbf3 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Update MF_WAS_IN_VIEW flag after interruption. 13:59:53 03dolorous * re3c5467334d4 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove unreachable god switching message; Xom is not a good god. 13:59:56 03galehar * rdae46a01e12a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc player.cc): Fix wall clinging not triggering traps (#3781). 13:59:58 03MarvinPA * r6c7b304f6d97 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc player.cc): Don't rot while under Death's Door 14:00:00 03zaba * rad8baf1a148d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/uniques.des dungeon.cc): Use the can_overwrite tag for place_unique maps. 14:00:02 03galehar * r03516dc29d89 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Don't cling after a teleport. 14:00:03 03galehar * rb2e958ad9c05 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Revert Ashenzari curses exceptions. 14:00:05 03galehar * r3a727db368b4 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Fix items not being announced when revealed by openning a door. 14:00:09 03galehar * r051dc45d3304 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Fix message when trying to butcher with a melded blunt weapon #3782 14:00:21 03galehar * r2d7b0c83ca94 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Don't interrupt butchering for monsters already in view. 14:00:32 03MarvinPA * rbbaa07de7b65 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Comment fixes 14:00:44 03MarvinPA * r1d7d12d64fa0 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Don't give Green Dracs poison spit in spider form 14:00:47 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r90ccf509eb5f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h player.cc): Crude join of player and monster to_hit 14:00:47 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r54c3ca99470f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h player.cc): Unify monster and player attack_delay 14:00:48 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * rbf3e8ffeda35 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h player.cc): Remove wrapper function calc_your_to_hit 14:00:49 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * rb96b0ddf2a94 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Move global var declaration into method 14:00:59 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r707386bd641f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (attack.cc attack.h): Update TODO 14:01:00 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r3053a05a07f5 10/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc: Update more TODOs 14:01:00 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r45b8cb22009c 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.h: Reorganize melee_attack methods into categories 14:01:01 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * rde7551ba1bba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h mon-act.cc): Remove sparsely used wrapper method 14:03:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:03:34 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:10:11 -!- upsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:54 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:21 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:07 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:49 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 14:53:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:53:42 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:26 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:55:28 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 15:20:56 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:51 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:00 -!- Napkin changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Stone Soup Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 15:27:05 ok, I think CDO is back 15:27:08 !tell Eronarn octopodes have mad power later on, but damn hard start. I wonder, since all other races get armour (at the very least a robe...), what about having them start with a ring? 15:27:10 kilobyte: OK, I'll let Eronarn know. 15:27:17 please give it a thorough try? 15:27:22 not for me 15:27:32 at least WWW 15:27:42 Napkin: I can play CDO 15:27:46 nor ssh 15:28:01 explain, kilobyte 15:28:18 I'm playing on CDO and I have the webpage up. 15:28:30 restart your browser? it's own dns cache can be annoying 15:28:40 if that's the problem, kilobyte 15:28:42 not sure 15:28:44 website's good 15:28:58 kilobyte: yeah, having them start with a ring has come up before... i think there are mechanical advantages to it, but that it would feel tacked on. i'd be a lot more inclined to give them some racial AC (like the jiyva mut 'rubbery body', +1 AC) 15:28:58 Eronarn: You have 16 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:29:31 however, what might be interesting is if they got one starting ring for every role, but you got to choose what that ring was from a limited list 15:29:50 got it, you advertise a broken IPv6 address in DNS -- one which doesn't fail gracefully, so anyone with working IPv6 connectivity will get insane delays 15:30:00 napkin: CDO has been working completely fine for me for a while now 15:30:32 if you simply had none, or it was rejecting connections, it would fall back to v4 15:30:35 something like... +2 ac, +2 ev, +1 slaying, +3 stat 15:31:58 Napkin: it has working connectivity, but its IP is 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2 while you advertise 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:2 15:32:18 no, kilobyte 15:32:36 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2 is the main ip, 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:2 is crawl.develz.org 15:32:47 but apache is not yet listening to ipv6, neither is ssh 15:33:07 I can only get so much done at once - ipv6 is next, promised :) 15:33:25 I sshed in (over v4), and it doesn't have that address assigned. 15:33:51 felids start with fur 1, right? total of 1 AC? 15:33:52 exactly :> 15:34:13 which wouldn't do any good, since no service is listening on ipv6 yet (almost none, at least not the important ones) 15:34:24 you just have to believe me, that dns is configured correctly 15:34:26 ;) 15:34:36 it's just not yet in use 15:37:17 right, but that makes any services you have unusable for quite a bit of us (unless we mess with DNS locally) 15:37:57 I like the way octopodes are now, it's a unique challenge curve 15:38:16 solution 1: comment out AAAA in DNS for now, solution 2: add the address 15:39:30 2 is trivial with a restart, I don't know if they fixed that since five years ago when vserver config was so broken you needed a restart just to alter IP. If there's a shred of sanity, they did. 15:39:42 I didn't find them overpowered later on, strong but not too much 15:39:56 st_: depends on rings you have 15:40:05 right 15:40:18 it's a lottery 15:40:57 one of: +48 AC, +48 EV, +48 int, +8 hp/turn, +64 slaying... or a combination of that 15:41:06 or even better with randarts 15:41:08 kilobyte: so is normal gear, though... octopodes mainly differ in that they can win bigger, but that doesn't mean that (in frequency) they win more often 15:41:32 where can I play this crawl variant with lava orcs and octopodes? 15:41:35 kilobyte: you won't get anything like that without massive scumming though 15:41:37 cao 15:41:39 a fully kitted out octopus is better, but a fully kitted out octopus is also exceedingly rare 15:42:21 kilobyte: even after clearing 3 zigs and allruning, my rings weren't *that* focused... only +24 slaying, for instance :P 15:42:24 ugh. The latency to CAO is awful on this continent 15:42:31 kilobyte: also, ring of regeneration is much less than 1 hp/turn 15:42:32 elliptic: if you want a specific set of rings, yeah... but it's likely you'll get eight good rings by midgame. 15:42:53 so eight of them isn't 8 hp/turn... more like 3 15:43:11 elliptic: doh, 0.4, mistaken that with the spell 15:43:24 eight useful rings by midgame, sure 15:43:25 kilobyte: sure, good, if that includes stuff like +3 rings of protection/evasion and rings of protection from fire/cold 15:43:29 i would highly doubt eight 'good' rings though 15:44:08 what kinds of games are you playing where you find more than two rings of slaying that even have any positive enchantment at all 15:44:14 (also, some ring properties are redundant: rpois, wiz, telecontrol, etc.) 15:44:20 by the point in the game where these things matter 15:44:36 kilobyte: my experience with octopodes right now is that they are very tricky to start (0 AC hurts a ton, especially with horrible conj apt) but then they become fairly strong (but not ridiculously so) by late game 15:44:53 "sounds like deep dwarf" 15:44:59 doy: hm? 15:45:07 reverse deep dwarf, maybe 15:45:19 hehe, kilobyte, let me quote you: kilobyte> and git, like any non-buggy multi-protocol program, tries ipv4 then 15:45:26 dd are trivial to start, but almost impossible lategame without a healing god 15:45:33 Eronarn: any hope of this stuff getting into trunk? 15:45:37 (or trog => not needing MP) 15:45:50 bmh: ask kilo about squarelos in trunk 15:46:03 kilobyte: Please can we have squarelos in trunk? 15:46:25 adding the ip won't do any good, since there _are no services yet listening on ipv6_ and i don't want to fiddle with the dns webinterface again, since there is only removing entries, no option to comment anything out 15:46:34 kilobyte: even stuff like +6 rings of protection/evasion are fairly rare... most games you just get +3 and +4 15:47:06 bmh: sure... you're free to name any broken branch "trunk" in a local repository :) 15:47:22 i plan to make the services listen to ipv6 tomorrow though 15:47:40 Napkin: no, if the address is assigned, it's enough 15:48:05 there's a difference between 60 seconds timeout and 44 msec round-trip :p 15:48:17 03j-p-e-g * rda98dbce45c0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc monster.cc monster.h show.cc): Mantis #3790: Keep monster trails if monsters swap on the edge of LOS. 15:48:35 OP really need testing with more average players, anyhow 15:48:38 drat. I tried abandoning Lugonu in an effort to escape from Sigmund 15:48:58 i think they might be too hard at start for anyone who isn't already good at crawl 15:49:37 yeah, I can imagine people getting frustrated with their start 15:49:55 though I do like 0 AC, it feels quite different from your regular squishy races 15:50:05 current state: IPv6 SYN -> nothing, then 60 seconds later the client gets tired waiting and retries on IPv4. 15:50:29 state if you added the addres: IPv6 SYN -> RST, the client can fallback immediately. 15:51:04 just like gitorious. It has git-serve listening on v4 only. 15:51:59 elliptic: i think 1 AC would be fine... isn't that what felids get? but they have better EV, and fast-move 15:52:02 (git is spammy here... most protocols are not, since that would spook the users. But git users can be assumed to be highly technical, so it's good to point out something is amiss) 15:52:11 and it'd make megabats half as deadly 15:52:18 eronarn: but people *like* the 0 AC :/ 15:52:45 Eronarn: my idea would be to give them a ring like protection or evasion, with a bonus roughly appropriate for what other races get 15:53:03 elliptic: the problem is that a lot of people playing them are good players 15:53:08 refreshing hardness might -> excessive hardness 15:53:30 kittehs get not only that negligible +1 AC, but also fast 1 + spriggan EV 15:54:21 Eronarn: I was sure Lava Orcs will be good and Octopodes suck... yet it turns out it's LO who are meh while sea food is nice 15:55:07 Eronarn: so I think it might be good to talk about tentatively put them into trunk. Just like parts of blue_anna's stuff, they can be always pulled out. 15:55:19 s/put/putting/ 15:56:06 kilobyte: well, i don't think LO are meh exactly... they seem fine conceptually, and people like them when their gimmick is working, it just isn't well-implemented yet so it works very inconsistently 15:56:14 i agree they're not even close to ready for trunk 15:56:52 but yeah, i've heard more positive feedback in the few days since OP went live than in the months previously 15:57:43 (also, wrt OP: i want them to be 'casual-friendly' because a lot of new content in crawl has not been. DDs, vamps, chei, fedhas mostly aren't that good for less skilled players) 15:58:51 (sorry about chei. blame dpeg) 15:59:04 already on it 16:01:19 in regard to the discussion about having the abyss get harder over time, I was thinking about translocations 16:01:43 perhaps teleporting always casts the player 'deeper' into the abyss 16:02:25 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r33a29e3ddca7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (hells.des pan.des): No more darkgrey walls/floors in Geh:7 or Gloorx 16:02:45 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * ra906f36de2dd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/gods.txt: Document Jiyva's off-level item eating in the description 16:02:45 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r7539677831d8 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Change help screen headings on ? to be consistent with the manual (#1406) 16:02:48 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * re5e590c6bea6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/skills.txt: Mention that Slings and Throwing cross-train in their description. 16:06:24 -!- elly has quit [Changing host] 16:06:24 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:39 Eronarn: why can't LOs walk on water? 16:07:00 try again, kilobyte 16:07:56 bmh: they should be able to... do you mean with Beogh water walking? 16:08:11 Eronarn: without! 16:08:18 lava + water = insta-bridge 16:08:37 bmh: they make steam if they step into shallow water! :) 16:08:44 Napkin: <3 16:08:48 but they don't evap water because that would be way too scumming-friendly 16:09:24 could you confirm, that ssh works on both ips, kilobyte? 16:11:42 now it suddenly started denying connections, both on v4 and v6 16:12:14 ssh & http? 16:13:09 http works 16:13:25 http is still ipv4 only 16:13:36 doh, my bad 16:13:48 I didn't specify the key 16:14:10 ah, now i remember you mentioned that you do that :) 16:14:50 sorry for confusion and a few lost minutes :( 16:15:02 lol, shut up - all good :) 16:15:17 already i relaxing mode - now, that most stuff works again 16:15:24 *already in 16:15:52 netstat is broken though 16:16:12 oot@crash:~> netstat -tulnp | egrep "2a01" 16:16:12 tcp6 0 0 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:22 :::* LISTEN 27206/sshd 16:16:15 tcp6 0 0 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:22 :::* LISTEN 27206/sshd 16:16:18 --- 16:16:47 or it's just cutting off inconveniently... one of those lines should be 2a01:4f8:140:3041::2:2:22 16:18:12 add -W 16:18:50 there was a flamewar a few years ago... someone wanted netstat to keep compatibility with some broken tool that parsed its output 16:19:18 napkin: you probably have more important things to get working, but any chance you could get gretell back on IRC sometime? 16:19:43 oh, right, sure, 1s 16:19:59 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:19 by then, IPv6 was a gimmick no one cared about rather than OMGWTFBBQ Teh Addresses Are Out! it is now, so it was left in its current state 16:20:19 @? human 16:20:20 human (15@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 3-67 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 238. 16:20:21 thanks :) 16:20:46 lol @ -W :D 16:20:59 that's like ps -W, huh? damn.. 16:21:12 works though, thanks :) 16:23:46 my brother who works at an ISP had a discussion with me about IPv6 a month ago: "we don't care, we have two /16 and a load of other pools, it will last for years", then less than two weeks later: "quickly, how to setup this, we got to deploy in a few days" :p 16:25:52 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 16:38:12 hahaha 16:39:10 and the worst thing about this rsyncing of the server - I couldn't play crawl in the meantime! 16:39:22 g'night o/ 16:39:33 beep me, if anything is broken or missing, please 16:39:56 oh, kilobyte? 16:40:05 you don't happen to know how to enable ipv6 for apache? 16:44:17 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:18 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:27 oh, that strongly reminds me 16:49:35 *must* do lair endings fix *today* 16:49:38 actually hell I will do it now 16:50:00 due <3 16:50:08 who's our release manager for 0.8? 16:50:24 jpeg, i think 16:50:33 and someone is taking over, when she starts her job soon 16:50:40 ah 16:57:58 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:32 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:06:28 Napkin: it's not an IPv6 issue, I guess... it says something about SSL 17:07:13 listening just on v4 is fine; also neither the client nor the server care any more once the transport is established 17:07:19 fixed now 17:07:26 i believe - try again 17:09:34 please confirm, kilobyte 17:10:53 works 17:11:05 great :) 17:11:22 https doesn't seem to fall back to ipv4 properly 17:12:37 kilobyte: gold was an option for sling bullets? I thought ogld was quite soft. 17:12:57 but heavy 17:12:57 kilobyte: Alternately, we could just make average sling bullets made of a weaker metal and thus keep the steel differentiation the same as other projectiles. 17:12:59 now that's strange... I've personally implemented a SSL proxy several years ago, and it is done purely after the connection is made 17:13:01 it'd be more bludgeony 17:13:19 at least i think so, kilobyte 17:13:21 due: like lead, I guess. 17:13:39 it started working, once i told apache to listen to ipv6 and configured the virtualhost separately 17:13:39 due: I never tossed pellets of gold at anyone :p 17:14:30 separately? I had it working without any configuration at all, it listens on :: happily. 17:14:52 for http on port 80, yes 17:15:18 but remember, https needs ip address in the config 17:15:58 just Listen 80;Listen 443 (in the default config it's inside a stanza) 17:16:26 that doesn't work well if you have namedvirtualhosts 17:16:57 *NameVirtualHost 17:17:03 ah yes, I have and separate since the latter needs SSL settings 17:17:38 i'm very picky, on what ip something is listening 17:17:46 there are several sites on this apache instance, and they work well 17:17:49 so.. a Listen 80 is a no-go 17:18:03 all on one IP here 17:18:14 former cdo had 16 ips 17:18:30 new one only has 4.. apart from the million ipv6 ips, of course ;) 17:19:24 making multiple https servers listen on one ip is difficult, tricky, and additionally unsupported by apache 17:19:47 i mean, multiple names 17:19:50 it is supported by apache, just not by MSIE 17:20:00 no, it's also unsupported by apache 17:20:07 and since most users are on Exploder... 17:20:22 it's not that, kilobyte 17:20:59 https: you connect to an ip and exchange/check certificates - and afterwards the hostname you wanted to access is checked 17:21:20 which means, all https hostnames reachable on one ip need to use the same certificate 17:21:35 because specifying multiple certificates per ip is not possible 17:22:01 anyways, late! 17:22:08 I configured it several years ago and it worked... I remember I had to read up on it a fair bit, but sadly I don't remember the details except that it doesn't work on Exploder 17:22:21 it also doesn't work on firefox 17:22:33 they will all complain, that the certificate is invalid 17:22:54 it's TLS 17:23:17 it's SSL 17:23:20 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:40 it's not http+TLS.. it's http via SSL 17:23:56 SSL handshake comes first 17:24:27 TLS is effectively SSL 4 17:24:48 well, enough of arguing 17:24:55 ok, almost... Wikipedia says TLS 1.0 = SSL 3.1 17:25:14 show me a config that actually works, and i'll believe you 17:25:18 ;) 17:25:56 you'll never get a domain A with certificate for domain A and domain B with certificate for domain B running on a single ip 17:26:23 lemme turn it back on (I'll have to refresh my memory) 17:26:28 unless certificate for domain A is also valid for domain B 17:26:32 on Internet Exploder, you won't 17:26:42 not on any browser 17:26:47 it's a known problem in SSL, which was fixed in TLS 17:26:56 because apache will only serve the first certificate 17:28:10 anyways.. sleep! 17:28:14 bye! 17:28:21 g'night :) 17:45:56 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:50:03 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:50 -!- dexap has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:23 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:46 Wop the Nimble (L9 VpTm) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 10539. (D:6) 18:31:04 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:42 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:55 Is "the Grand Grimoire" the name of Demonology now? 18:35:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:24 Evening 18:35:50 Feature mimics trivial to detect (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3797) by minmay 18:37:26 b/c that's lame, if we're going to rename it, it should be Steganographia, or the Lemegton. 18:37:55 I'm not sure I want to know what you're renaming. 18:38:36 Regarding mimics, perhaps they should get some sort of a stab attack when you first identify them? They're fairly trivial to deal with (kill them, if you can't kill them, 'o' away from them) 18:39:20 they should get a grapple attack, once those are implemented 18:39:21 Demonology is now "The Grand Grimoire" which is possibly the only name for a grimoire which *isn't* better than "Demonology". 18:39:29 here is a solution to mimics: 18:39:33 1) they are not actually placed 18:39:44 2) instead a marker is placed 18:40:11 3) when you go to interact with the item where the marker is, the mimic is *only then* generated and surprise attacks you 18:41:18 (you could stop at 1) if you wanted!) 18:41:32 Eronarn, does that address the trivial mimic identification reports people are filing / experiencing? 18:42:10 Cryp71c: some of them; the mimic flat out wouldn't exist on the map until you do something with the fountain/door/stair/item/whatever 18:42:20 like step on its tile, or try to pick up the item, or go down stairs 18:42:39 Eronarn, I'm definitely of the school-of-1). I'd be happy with this compromise if the item was left behind when you killed the mimic. As is, mimics are either worth the XP to kill, or they do enough damage to kill you (which is a bad b/c it discourages auto-explore), or you just avoid them even once you discover them. 18:42:50 wouldn't fix stuff like stair/portal/fountain mimics being placed in awful ways 18:43:41 If killing a mimic created another set of downstairs for you to use, even (potentially very very useful!), this'd be worthwhile. And of course no-one ever complains about having to kill something if they get some treasure out of it. 18:44:56 "Pseudomonarchia Daemonum" is an awesome name. 18:46:11 "Ars Goetia" is my personal favorite. It's part of the lesser key of Solomon but I understand if we want to avoid naming anything after real-world biblical figures. 18:46:15 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:47:39 mimics dropping stuff is a bad idea 18:48:27 yeah, i don't like that 18:50:04 mimics [...] is a bad idea 18:50:22 doors and stairs sort of work okay i guess 18:51:10 i like mimics 18:51:18 they're just not implemented very well at the moment 18:51:21 mimics are cool conceptually but the current implementation is just so horrid 18:51:23 yeah 18:51:25 right 18:51:52 door mimics at least are good right now because they actually replace existing doors 18:51:59 i think making them rarer, stronger, and having some mechanism for not being able to just run away from them would be a good idea 18:52:45 sounds about right, along with generating them in such a way that they're not completely obvious 18:52:50 yeah 18:52:51 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:06 the item ones are pretty good about that, the feature ones not as much 18:53:11 but that shouldn't be too hard to fix 18:55:50 another thing that could be interesting would be to give them a uniform rarity rather than a native depth, and have their strength scale with the depth of the level they're generated on 18:56:46 would make sense... monsters pick up items and such; mimics have to be stronger to survive 18:57:01 could give them some tier-ish names if we're worried players will get confused 18:57:09 'immature mimic', etc. 19:04:41 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:32 -!- dexap has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:19:00 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:43 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:31 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:50 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:46 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:25 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:29:49 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:45 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:34 Did we reach a consensus on the crucial, game-breaking question of how Demonology should be renamed? 20:56:39 'grand grimoire' 20:56:43 If mimics are not completely obvious, does this not mean that, below a certain depth, hitting autoexplore will sometimes kill you? 20:57:05 Sorry, if mimics are simultaneously not-completely-obvious and also powerful. 20:57:08 hitting autoexplore can already sometimes kill you 20:57:15 so it's not like that would change anything 20:57:41 I guess if I'm exploring manually than I *might* have the foresight to control LOS so I never end up adjacent to a giant, stuff like that. 20:57:50 s/than/then 20:58:01 ranged attackers can kill you on the turn they come into view 20:58:19 Yes, they can. But if you're exploring manually how do you do something smarter than what autoexplore does? 20:58:43 If you want to throw a magic dart (or literal dart) at every door and item to make sure it isn't a mimic, that just bogs down the game. 20:59:42 Alternatively, if you have mimics that turn into monsters when you interact with them, and there is *literally* no way to avoid them... counting stairs and noticing a fourth? 20:59:52 i'm not sure what you're asking here 21:00:49 If mimics are a real danger, but there is some way to discover mimics (say throwing stones at them), that discourages auto-explore because auto-explore doesn't do the ideal thing, which is to throw stones at everything in the dungeon. 21:01:22 OTOH, if mimics are a real danger, but there is no way to discover mimics, they just become arbitrary death sentences for some builds at some stages of the game. 21:01:41 no 21:01:51 Now, auto-explore may not do *quite* the ideal thing in terms of just exploring, but it's certainly close enough for me. 21:01:54 'hard' doesn't mean 'arbitrary death sentences' 21:02:49 Okay, either mimics can be avoided through some display of *skill*, in which case presumably that skill is presumably incompatable with auto-explore, and you don't auto-explore which is bad. 21:03:29 OR, mimics can be survived through some level of *luck*, in which case mimics are an arbitrary penalty in the mid game, periodically you lose this many heal wounds potions because something bit you. That's okay, but I myself fail to see the appeal. 21:03:40 what 21:03:42 argument by lack of imagination is not an argument 21:03:45 your arguments suck 21:03:48 Wop the Chiller (L2 VpIE) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 917. (D:2) 21:03:50 those are not the only two options 21:04:33 Well, that's true. There are lots of options. Mimics could teleport you. Mimics could be relatively obvious, very deadly, and have nice treasure. 21:04:59 But what I actually-hear-proposed is that mimics should be 1) rarer, 2) harder to detect and 3) much deadlier. Which pretty well makes them a negative random event. 21:05:06 mimics could not respond to things being thrown at them 21:05:17 mimics could spend a turn grabbing you before starting to do damage 21:05:32 in NetHack, once you discover a mimic, it wakes up and starts chasing you 21:05:36 And then you just step away? And never fight them? 21:05:48 but that isn't an ideal solution either 21:05:50 I noticed that portal mimics seem to hunt you down, as do door mimics. 21:06:27 mimics are annoying. door mimics are good though 21:06:45 I admit to being rather fond of the door mimic. But if it showed up more than avg. 1/game it'd get annoying. 21:06:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:53 you know what else is a negative random event? 21:07:07 Yaktaurs? 21:07:08 everything that isn't the most positive random event that could have happened to your character, from the right frame of reference 21:07:19 Slime creatures. 21:07:21 "every vault designed by lemuel" 21:07:59 why do the new mimics move anyway? 21:08:12 because not moving makes them kind-of rubbish 21:08:23 and if a door mimic teleported away, it'd be obvious 21:08:23 but the old ones still don't 21:08:35 The old ones teleport and become new items. 21:08:59 Which doesn't fool anyone, if they're paying attention, so it's a broken mechanic. 21:09:11 going to repeat this: -mimics do not exist on the map, at all, until you trigger them -then they chase after you 21:09:55 I like Eronarn's suggestion only because it does no actual damage to the game and preserves mimics for people who have a fetish for them. 21:10:18 this would actually be pretty simple to implement by making mimic generation vault-based, like uniques 21:10:22 and adding a bit of lua 21:10:45 It's easy to do? I'm sold, for what little that is worth. 21:11:01 (which would also allow for my earlier idea of uniform distribution and adjusted difficulty) 21:11:08 doy: did you hear about what i implemented for swarms? 21:11:12 nope 21:11:50 doy: it's basically a second monster list, where monsters are stored persistently but are not put into mgrid - but, they can still do stuff from that 'limbo' zone if they're called in the right way 21:12:23 Incidentally, an annoying monster that I *did* like was the vanilla giant mosquito. Not sure why those have been deleted entirely in favor of the vampire variety, but I don't like it. 21:12:45 so for example, a swarm is a cloud which contains a mid that's in the second list, and moves like a cloud, but if it engulfs someone the monster handles all attacking 21:12:49 what was interesting about giant mosquitos? 21:13:21 Eronarn: interesting 21:13:28 Nothing was interesting about giant mosquitos, they were purely a hazard with no reward. For being in the dismal swamp, where life sucks and so do you. 21:13:37 how does that handle you being able to attack the monster? 21:13:38 so you could store mimics there, and still have them with positions and stuff (e.g., mimics that move somewhere you haven't seen yet), and pop them into the real list / mgrid once they reveal themselves 21:14:05 you can't, but only because there's no input to be able to attack them 21:14:23 the methods themselves could be called, but you can't swing at it for the same reason you can't swing at a door or what have you 21:14:25 (also, i wonder if this would make the air elemental implementation more sane) 21:14:29 yeah 21:14:36 Can you drop fireballs on them? 21:14:40 and submerging monsters, or monsters that turn into clouds, or monsters that can walk through walls... 21:14:56 DrPraetor: no, it may as well not exist for any purposes, except code specifically crafted to access them 21:15:26 I agree that this is good for mimics, but I worry that this will invite buggy behaviors for swarms. 21:15:28 it's truly 'limbo' - the monsters exist, and you can do stuff with them, but you have a lot more control over what code gets called referencing his zone 21:16:16 main thing is, that would probably require rewriting a lot of the "pretend the mimic is this other thing from the player's point of view" code 21:16:39 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:00 doy: make the mimic actually be another thing, with a marker on the square, and have stuff that needs to see whether it's a real item or a mimic check for that marker :) 21:17:32 with this you could even have the player able to enter the square a mimic is in, and try to pick the item up, before the mimic triggers 21:17:44 or monsters able to walk over mimics 21:18:09 there would of course be a buggy interim but i think overall it would result in far more capable + maintainable code 21:18:27 "it's optimal behavior to lure a monster over every item or feature before approaching it" 21:19:49 give stair mimics shadow creatures 21:19:57 you could do that pretty easily with lua, even having the mimic drop the item it was supposed to be... but like doy said, what's the point, it's the same issue 21:19:59 when they summon it gives the 'x comes up the stairs' message 21:20:36 Eronarn: <################# 21:20:37 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:20:47 !messages 21:20:47 (1/1) mikee_ said (22m 55s ago): i recommend reducing his depth by 1; so d:1-d:6! 21:20:55 due: ? 21:21:02 shadow creatures 21:21:06 ah 21:21:20 the portal ones could let you get inside of them, people have been wanting a stomach portal vault for ages 21:22:59 lol 21:27:10 Oh, I never noticed that before. The worm tunnel on Lair:8 has a dragon hidden on it. That's cute, but rather spoily. 21:31:01 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:58 I heartily endorse portal mimics leading you to a mimic's stomach. 21:38:34 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 21:38:53 Oh, did we ever come to a consensus/get a wiki article on tension? 21:40:06 consensus in ##crawl-dev takes months 21:41:47 As does a wiki article, if it's to make any sense. But hope springs eternal. 21:44:53 I believe my formulas are still in use for this so I ought to know, but: how much shields skill do I need at regular size to completely cancel a buckler? 21:45:19 mischan, sorry. 21:49:52 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:34 Damn, wiglaf is fairly nasty. Does he actually carry a hat? I thought monsters couldn't wear more than one item at a time? 21:53:57 m1nced the Thaumaturge (L11 DSWz) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 14210. (D:10) 21:54:04 m1nced the Thaumaturge (L11 DSWz) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 14210. (D:10) 21:59:07 Pink? Greater nagas are *pink* now? I much preferred orange. 21:59:48 so? 22:00:18 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:32 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:19 So the game is completely broken now :) 22:02:38 Why are greater naga's pink 22:03:34 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:39 I'm guessing someone complained that orange and red are insufficiently distinct. Also, someone wanted hideously ugly colours to give them epileptic seizures. 22:03:48 someone put salamanders on N and saw fit to change a common monster's colour so an extremely obscure monster could have it 22:05:10 Okay, I've got a version of Snake:4 that has a seemingly random mixture of metal walls, with nothing behind them? 22:05:20 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:41 Salamanders should be blue, 1) because that's the hottest color of fire and 2) because it makes them easier to pick out on the red lava background. 22:05:59 blue like naga warriors? 22:06:06 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:12 or do you mean blue like black mambas 22:06:53 < DrPraetor> Salamanders should be blue, 22:06:53 Cyan like terrance, actually. 22:06:54 change your rc 22:07:09 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:23 guardian serpents and aizul on N forever 22:07:26 !wtf rc 22:07:27 WTF was that? Unthing! 22:07:34 options file 22:07:58 ??Dirty hat 22:07:59 dirty hat[1/2]: don't wear it it's dirty 22:08:06 ??Dirty hat[2] 22:08:06 hat of the alchemist[1/1]: +2 unrandart cap with rF+ rC+ rElec and 30 MR. 22:08:10 WOOO 22:08:16 180 gold 22:08:18 oops 22:08:19 sorry 22:08:28 st_: i think we could stand to add in a new guardian naga monster that actually uses equipment and make aizul one 22:08:36 like how he was supposed to be 22:08:50 snake could use some more variety 22:09:07 If I modify my preferences file I can't give proper feedback on your horrible fashion decisions. 22:10:31 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:15:27 m1nced the Thaumaturge (L12 DSWz) ASSERT(mon->seen_context != "just seen") in 'delay.cc' at line 1636 failed on turn 17929. (D:13) 22:16:16 Well, that's a fine how-do-you-do. 22:17:19 Do the humans that show up with Rupert as vault-entrance-guards have any special scripted rules? Like they love me if I kill Rupert, anything like that? 22:17:52 no also wrong channel 22:19:29 Sorry, what I meant to say was: this welcoming party of vault-entrance-guards should have some special scripted rules. Although it looks like they don't follow up stairs, that's something. 22:20:23 why 22:22:05 !tell due I died in the mega cathedral. Eidolon feared my summons and trapped me in a corner (for some reason I didn't teleport) 22:22:05 st_: OK, I'll let due know. 22:23:14 b/c they just spread out around the level and got killed one at a time like dogs? 22:23:38 Which kinda ruins the fun of having them show up as a group. Don't Pikel and his slaves have some group cohesion script they follow? 22:23:59 no i mean why should they have special rules 22:25:30 They should have a cohesion script to make them a bit more challenging. Although with bolts and balls that wouldn't do much, so maybe not. 22:27:09 Anyway, compared to the vault-entrance-vault I got last game, which featured liches, this was a bit of a let-down. 22:40:11 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:04 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:46 hii 22:56:46 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:57:02 !messages 22:57:12 OH FINE THEN. Don't reply to me. 22:57:24 (1/1) st_ said (35m 4s ago): I died in the mega cathedral. Eidolon feared my summons and trapped me in a corner (for some reason I didn't teleport) 22:57:29 st_: :DDDDDDDDDDD 22:59:28 DrPraetor: While I get that you're trying to be productive, etc, the constant stream of "this should be this" and "that should be that" is starting to grate a little; is there a reason why you can't chat in ##crawl and then, if you really need to, file a patch/open a wiki page/etc? 23:00:37 I'm a bit too plastered to organize anything that sophisticated. 23:01:46 Then please re-direct your stream-of-consciousness to ##crawl, thanks! 23:02:08 (I have ##crawl on ignore for this specific reason; ##crawl-dev usually has relevant conversation.) 23:06:57 why don't you just not join it, rather than have it on ignore? 23:08:18 ais523: a) logging, b) occasionally I read it c) activity_hide_targets ftw 23:12:06 i actually read it decently actively because i have *no life* 23:12:25 also i get like 5 alerts a day nowadays, since ??badwiki and ??octopodes hit me 23:12:41 Eronarn: Email alerts? 23:18:30 no, just nick highlighting 23:18:39 better since i installed a script that fws it all to a window 23:21:43 Ah. 23:32:16 Mara clones are listed separately in the visible monster list (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3798) by reid 23:43:26 "Oops", that shouldn't happen. 23:56:48 Am I reading the makeitem code correctly? Disregarding the 1/24 chance of larger stacks, 18% of scrolls will be identify scrolls. Assuming you find ~150 scrolls per game, this'll be 24 +/- 5 identify scrolls per game. 23:58:00 that sounds low 23:59:46 It is low. 23:59:52 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]]