00:00:17 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.9.0-a0-71-g7e89148 (32) 00:12:56 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:11 Bat form from metamorphosis card yields appears to deal damage from a branded weapon (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3795) by smock 00:18:19 03MarvinPA * r07159ce1c851 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-restr.cc: Don't suggest AM when choosing random/viable characters 00:21:06 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:56:19 -!- Neovanglist has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:53 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:27 03MarvinPA * rf9b2b53e4423 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc transform.cc): No hats for spiders (and related fixes) 01:56:38 03MarvinPA * r41524cc3fac0 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Don't cause self-damage to mummies casting pain 01:56:38 03MarvinPA * r8899d6eaebbd 10/crawl-ref/source/zap-data.h: Increase Flame Tongue's accuracy slightly 01:56:39 03MarvinPA * r0f6065220818 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc mon-spll.h): Some more minor hell/pan lord adjustments 01:56:40 03MarvinPA * r3da947012aef 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Remove Animate Dead from the book of Power 01:56:41 03MarvinPA * r3cbde79cb4f6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-stuff.cc mon-util.cc notes.cc notes.h): Add notes when Beogh names an ally, and when named allies die 01:59:39 MarvinPA: any reason why this doesn't apply to, say, ghouls, or anyone otherwise immune to pain? 02:00:51 hmm... i suppose it could extend to ghouls and bloodless vampires 02:01:54 i don't know really, it's not particularly meaningful mostly 02:02:13 if anything a better solution would be to make it just affect deep dwarves 02:02:33 but then that'd be silly until xl3 :P 02:08:50 if the intention's to balance Pain by making it self-inflict a bit of damage, preventing it being spammable, why not convert shaved self-inflicted damage to glow on deep dwarves? 02:09:05 that'd have much the same effect, a few castings are irrelevant, spamming it's potentially dangerous 02:09:37 i think really it's just a bit of flavour rather than actually changing the spell's balance, past d:1 it doesn't have much effect 02:11:04 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:17 03MarvinPA * r93e1beb87bf7 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: No pain self-damage for the pain-immune generally, instead of just mummies 02:28:24 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:17 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * rb3540b127deb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Don't try to suggest certain resistances. [#367] 02:34:26 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r09a281f14192 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Don't auto-attack toadstools when wielding the Wrath of Trog. 02:34:27 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r6ff1a96de0df 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Mention that wizlab portals are fading away in their long description. 02:34:27 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * rceabed7bfb4a 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Auto-kill toadstools if a mummy, ghoul or in lich form. 02:34:28 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r43060e75c5a8 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: A message when you switch from a good god to a good god. 02:34:29 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * r0a9a5102de53 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix Okawaru not accepting kills of holy beings. 02:34:30 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r278f978b45f4 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-restr.cc: Don't suggest AM when choosing random/viable characters 02:34:30 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.8 * rc9591870c0af 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Fix corrupted screenshots in dump/morgue files. 02:34:31 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r874ab375dc8d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc transform.cc): No hats for spiders (and related fixes) 02:34:32 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.8 * r69e7735cf0e5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc mon-spll.h): Some more minor hell/pan lord adjustments 02:40:22 -!- elly has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:45 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:55 -!- hayenne has left ##crawl-dev 02:57:55 -!- hayenne has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:29 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:37 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:41 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:16 03MarvinPA * r2f9c6553645a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (hells.des pan.des): No more darkgrey walls/floors in Geh:7 or Gloorx 03:44:33 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:15 03j-p-e-g * raba251d77d52 10/crawl-ref/source/status.cc: Set clinging status colour according to the current feature. 03:46:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:11 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:45 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:10:43 Lich's and their bunch of 1's that torment, pain, etc suck terribly 04:10:50 *Lichs 04:11:33 -!- Jordan7hm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:41 losing 170hp in one turn is just not reasonable 04:13:25 and that with rN+++ and uncannily MR 04:20:16 03MarvinPA * r30b4412be621 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Change help screen headings on ? to be consistent with the manual (#1406) 04:20:17 03MarvinPA * rf49d20ab8705 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/gods.txt: Document Jiyva's off-level item eating in the description 05:01:35 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:35 moin 05:08:35 Zaba: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:08:42 !messages 05:08:43 (1/1) kilobyte said (14h 31m 32s ago): Could you look at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3786 ? Even setting the pan entry vault as transparent doesn't help -- you have more clue here. 05:09:43 kilobyte, regarding #3786: Yes, I can see the issue... it needs to use a hack similar to that used for placing uniques. 05:09:56 kilobyte, the problem is that currently the hack is not really reusable for other purposes. Need to make it a tag. 05:10:21 I'll look into doing that today. 05:10:25 brb 05:10:26 what can we do for 0.8? 05:10:54 ok guys, I'm taking down CDO in 50 minutes to move the services to the new server 05:10:56 if it would be an intrusive change, we can just kludge it without vaults 05:11:53 -!- Napkin changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: CDO is being moved and down for a while! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 05:12:03 * kilobyte hopes you'll finish before May. 05:12:53 wishing you luck, just shit always happens 05:13:53 thanks :) 05:14:33 my ogre who got a GDA on D:1 just splatted anyway 05:15:12 with deformed body which two potions of cure mutations didn't fix, of course 05:23:28 kilobyte, I'm not yet sure how exactly it should be done technically, but no, it shouldn't be too intrusive 05:24:42 the code that picks the place of the vault will have to only check MMT_VAULT in case the said tag is not present 05:41:37 * Zaba waits for a full recompile to finish 05:41:41 it's been a while, somehow... 05:42:44 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.9.0-a0-83-gf49d20a 05:47:05 hii 05:47:22 Napkin: ooooh scary! 05:48:55 I'm gonna do some more work on the butcher-patch later today, what's a good way to publish my work in progress so you guys can test it? 05:49:01 I'm very new to git etc. 05:49:44 kilobyte, should be done 05:50:04 ghallberg: Register an account on gitorious and fork our repository. 05:50:20 ghallberg: then push your changes there and then you can pull and merge our changes in 05:50:22 03zaba * r9a7a490ff9c9 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt source/maps.cc): Add a tag, can_overwrite, that lets vaults overwrite existing vaults. 05:50:33 03zaba * re0ca6bca752c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (abyss.des pan.des): Let Abyss and Pan entrances overwrite vaults. 05:50:51 due: Ok, I'll get to that in a few hours then. Lecture time! 05:51:31 an one-off patch might be submitted to Mantis ("git format-patch" for best results), but for many, pull requests are better 05:54:53 kilobyte: someone should add the tag "game" to dcss@gitourius. 05:55:17 that would be me 05:55:46 Seems like the intuitive way too look for it :P 05:56:19 I didn't realise you could take projects :) 05:58:14 03kilobyte * rd806454372bd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc transform.cc traps.cc): Display the quiver again when you get out of a net. 05:58:25 03kilobyte * rb988951ad829 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/skills.txt: Mention that Slings and Throwing cross-train in their description. 05:59:20 kilobyte, in my testing, it seems like pan/abyss gateways now generate fine over other vaults 06:01:03 hmm.. 06:01:05 yay, got pan_entry and uniq_wiglaf over an 80x70 encompass vault 06:01:40 uniques still use the hardcoded ugliness. Could probably make them can_overwrite and remove _place_unique_map altogether now. 06:03:43 well, only if choosing maps without allow_dup earlier wouldn't block them 06:03:58 alright, let's go! 06:04:13 kilobyte, without 'extra', you mean? 06:04:53 d'oh, right 06:05:04 kilobyte, and no, I'm not removing _place_uniques, just _place_unique_map, which is a thin wrapper for dgn_place_map which is a not very thin wrapper for _build_secondary_vault which is a thin wrapper for _build_vault_impl 06:05:09 ok, can't close the bug. Let's guess why... 06:05:29 why? 06:05:54 cdo is down? 06:05:55 Napking just broke CDO :p 06:06:00 oh crap 06:06:08 what are we going to track bugs with? :P 06:06:10 -!- Gretell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:21 the bugs are loose! 06:06:22 :) 06:06:47 Ok, git is hard. 06:06:48 :D 06:06:56 ghallberg, no, it's not! 06:07:20 ghallberg, did you check out docs/develop/git/* in the crawl repo? It might have something useful. 06:07:33 Zaba: I have a vague memory of looking there before :P 06:10:12 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:27 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:02 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:20:08 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:59 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:58 -!- galehar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:15 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:44 -!- hayenne has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:19:51 -!- syllogism has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:59 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:59 -!- hayenne has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:01 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:35 Morning 07:24:37 CDO Site is down? 07:24:55 all of cdo is down, see the topic 07:25:43 ah, mybad. 07:32:09 hm, is commit notification also down now? 07:34:41 Was Grettel the notify'er for that one? 07:35:29 CIA, but IIRC the notifications were pushed through a hook which was running on CDO 07:43:30 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:39 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:12 awww... the ring "Rexkeopo" {MUT+ rF+ rC+ Str+4} 07:52:39 -!- ZorbaTHut has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:52:53 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:00 Oh dear, this makes up for that +MUT 07:53:01 the +11,+10 falchion "Meis" (weapon) {freeze, +Blink rPois rF+ Str-1 Int+4} 08:02:19 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:19 !seen Napkin 08:27:19 I last saw Napkin at Mon Apr 11 11:03:58 2011 UTC (2h 23m 20s ago) saying alright, lets go! on ##crawl-dev. 08:27:31 What's up with the webpage? 08:27:32 moin David 08:27:40 Hallo Marc! 08:27:58 siehe topic - Ich ziehe den server um 08:28:20 Aha! Groesser, besser, staerker? 08:28:33 ja :) 08:28:38 und billiger! 08:28:51 Hast du schon eine Idee, wann der Umzug durch ist? 08:29:09 !tell kilobyte Colossal work on the bugs and Mantis, you rock! 08:29:09 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 08:29:13 ich hoffe heute abend 08:29:21 Super, bin schon wieder weg. 08:29:24 Bye everyone 08:29:30 -!- dpeg has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:24 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:54 Does CDO have a new key? 08:53:27 CDO is down last I heard. 08:56:55 see topic 09:04:04 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:09 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:47 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:57:32 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:17 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:54 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:33 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:15 -!- Jordan7hm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:22 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:14:15 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:20:40 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 11:32:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:27 hmm... so here's a question with LRD 12:15:40 i think most people agree that if there's a wall like: ### it shouldn't go through to the other side 12:15:49 what if, though, it's a pillar like .#. 12:16:23 should that only hit certain sides of the pillar, if you LRD it and it doesn't explode? 12:18:08 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:20 eronarn: no, it should hit every adjacent square IMO 12:38:34 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:24 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:00 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:01 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: CDO is being moved and down for a while! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 13:13:12 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:12 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:57 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:35 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:50 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 13:58:50 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:56 -!- bmh has left ##crawl-dev 13:59:00 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:00 -!- bmh has left ##crawl-dev 14:02:13 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:13 hi 14:02:13 ah-ha. CDO http is down in addition to crawl.cdo! 14:02:13 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:48 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:48 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: CDO is being moved and down for a while! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. | Tentative 0.8 release date April 24th 14:06:00 yeah, the idea would be that the unseen surface is still accessible because it is just around the corner rather than on the other side of a wall 14:06:00 but I agree it is tricky 14:06:00 bmh: Hi there! 14:06:00 any system other than the current will be more complicated, though 14:06:00 !seen Napkin 14:06:00 I last saw Napkin at Mon Apr 11 13:29:13 2011 UTC (5h 34m 58s ago) saying ich hoffe heute abend on ##crawl-dev. 14:06:00 dpeg: since cdo is down, I can't have a look -- how much interest is there in spicing up the Abyss? 14:06:00 unfortunately, the dns webinterface screwed me.. resetting everything without warning me and setting a 24h ttl... 14:06:00 so.. for the next 24h crawl.develz.org will give a wrong result 14:06:00 so, it'll take a bit longer *sigh* 14:06:02 bmh: yes, of course. What is your plan? 14:06:11 Napkin: oh shit 14:06:28 Napkin: Reachable by ip? 14:06:36 no, not yet 14:06:42 oki 14:06:51 dpeg: first step is to improve terrain generation using a multifractal 14:07:45 As it is now, when I'm in the abyss it feels like I'm running in a straight line waiting for the world to "pop" 14:08:21 Abyss is just annoying, with the walls and deep water everywhere. 14:08:25 i wonder if it'd work better if it did basically what amounts to a beam and then a 180 degree arc from where the beam hits 14:09:15 so fire LRD at a corner and it explodes not along the surface of the entire wall, but on that specific corner 14:09:17 ghallberg: what are you doing with butcher? 14:09:54 dpeg: Removing the need for a sharp weapon. 14:10:10 bmh: due has the new abyssal monsters proposed 14:10:26 bmh: not sure what you mean by that, but you'll get it right 14:10:35 bmh: an idea that has been floating around for a while, but hasn't been turned into a full proposal yet: the abyss gets harder the longer you spend in it 14:14:10 Eronarn: I like it 14:14:10 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:10 Yeah that sounds quite reasonable. 14:14:10 Being abyssed at low level is almost always gauranteed death unless you happen upon lug altar. 14:14:10 Could be done in a number of ways, o 14:14:10 dpeg: imagine a 2d slice through a cubic vector field 14:14:10 too 14:14:10 (personally, I'd like to see it flavored like such: the more time you survive in the abyss (monitored per-game, not per-abyssing), the more attention that entities from beyond pay to you. the abyss monster set gradually becomes more horrible, lovecraftian things instead of just 'lost wanderers', as they seek you out. said entities should have some tie to lugonu, presumably) 14:14:10 (say x,y slice) -- as you translate along the z axis, the vectors shift smoothly 14:14:10 bmh: do you really get stuff you wouldn#t obtain from a 2d fractal? 14:14:10 ah, I see 14:14:10 yes ;-) 14:14:10 my console is broken, cannot really communicate here 14:14:10 bugger. try IRC over SMS? 14:14:10 does not scroll properly 14:14:10 dpeg: Something like: You're carrying around a little butchering knife. If you don't have a sharp weapon you use that instead. Looking for a knife in the early game is just an annoying chore. We discussed it here a few days ago. 14:14:10 the abyssal counter could also be tied to use of reality-warping effects: tloc miscasts could give you ++abyss rather than immediately abyssing you, same with lugonu wrath, unwielding distortion weapons, casting SHT... "this is powerful, but if you use it, the abyss will get better at hunting you down" 14:14:10 ghallberg: I think I was the one who set up the MAntis "implicit butchery" item 14:14:14 (could even make eldritch tentacles preferentially go after abyss-tainted characters) 14:14:29 eronarn: something like that sounds plausible for LRD, yeah 14:14:30 Eronarn: too indirect, will generally not be visible 14:14:36 Eronarn: here's the idea I had: As the abyss shifts around it doesn't make sense to have rock wall suddenly occlude the player. So you gradually shift it in as smoke. 14:14:42 dpeg_: Probably, anyway, it was an easy fix for the most part. 14:14:48 If the player is still standing in "abyss smoke" when it turns into rock -- cast them deeper into the abyss! 14:15:26 bmh: that sounds kind of weird 14:15:34 One idea I recently had was visibly different threat levels in the Abyss, where the harder ones have more runes/exits 14:15:54 which seems to relate to something you all are saying 14:16:20 I'm a fairly weak player, but I can't survived in the abyss as any non-fast race at XL < 20 14:16:42 on the flip side, I think I once snagged the abyss rune as an XL7 Spriggan 14:16:57 dpeg_: wrt it being indirect: you'd want messages/etc. while in the Abyss, or when you gain some dramatic amount of this counter. i think it'd be a good way to make the abyss scary, if you could by your actions make it so deadly that even zig characters would be troubled by it 14:17:32 Eronarn: but you can also get banished at XL 5. 14:18:24 dpeg_: right... if you get banished at XL5 you have none of this counter, so the abyss is globally easier. if you've spent thousands of turns in the abyss hunting the rune, have cast SHT many times, etc. then the abyss becomes much deadlier than today 14:18:52 it's an attempt to scale abyss difficulty by not just straight XL, but also some other factors, which i believe is more flavorful 14:22:19 since we can use milestones to figure out when people entered/exited the abyss in games, how many times it happened, etc. 14:22:19 it is very indirect... staying very long in the abyss you can see how things get harder... whereas casting SHT, how are you gonna evaluate the threat of "harder Abyss"? 14:22:19 but I only see the last two lines of messages, gotta talk another time, sorry 14:22:19 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:19 dpeg: well, i think it's *good* if a player can't cast SHT and know 'ok, that was equivalent to 1000 turns in the abyss' 14:22:19 unrelated: I could go for a Crawl Hackathon. Switzerland is nice this time of year 14:22:19 that reminds me i need to go do that SHT revamp thing 14:22:19 there is the list on the wiki and everything 14:22:20 I'm just saying that one measure (time spent in Abyss) to set uo threat will already be quite a task 14:22:20 use of spells like SHT/Gateway = tampering with unreal magics, and this lets us give a penalty for them that feels significant 14:22:20 yeah, for sure, i think it would be good to try and pull up real game data to make a measure for it 14:24:17 how long is CDO down for? 14:31:51 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:38:41 bmh: Switzerland? 14:41:48 bhaak: Sure, it's centrally located and gorgeous 14:44:12 bmh: yes it is, but i wouldn't have thought of it as first place to come to my mind for a crawl hackathon. 14:44:44 If someone organized such a thing, I'd be game for taking a few days off of work. 14:49:07 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:59 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:02:33 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:07:35 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:38 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:00 switzerland is a bit far for USians, but i'd go to anything on the eastern half of this continent 15:20:04 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:38 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:14 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 15:36:05 mmm crawl hackathon 15:36:16 How about Oulu, Finland? Two devs reside here :) 15:37:23 Keskitalo: do you have an airport? 15:37:31 Finland? Isn't it like walking into a freezing cloud? 15:37:31 galehar: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:37:37 !messages 15:37:37 (1/2) ghallberg said (2d 11h 45m 1s ago): Ok, right now it works like this: If you try to butcher with no sharp weapons in inv it asks "Switch to pen knife for butchering?", if you have sharp weapons you get "What would you like to use? (- for pen knife, esc to cancel)?" and the regular menu for choosing chopping-tool. 15:38:09 !messages 15:38:09 (1/1) ghallberg said (2d 5h 7m 40s ago): When you get back, drop me a note on how to convey my changes to you for checking. 15:38:12 bmh: Yeah 15:38:24 galehar: Only in the winter, spring and autumn! 15:38:31 :) 15:38:41 Let's do it in the summer then 15:38:43 Keskitalo: easyJet doesn't fly it. 15:38:51 ghallberg: around? 15:38:57 galehar: mhm 15:39:31 no prompt. The point of the change is make it simpler and less obtrusive. 15:40:00 If you have a sharp weapon, you butcher with it. If you don't, you switch to bare hands and butcher with your knife. 15:40:13 galehar: Point was you might awnt to use a "real" weapon if you get interrupted. But that may be silly paranoia 15:40:37 yes 15:40:41 don't bother with that 15:40:43 Keskitalo: how about an international airport? ;-) 15:41:05 galehar: Sure, I like it even better that way:D 15:41:11 bmh: btw, +1 for switzerland! 15:41:31 bmh: Connect from Helsinki-Vantaa :P 15:41:42 ghallberg: I wonder how many deaths have occurred within say 10 turns of butchering, conditioned on weapon swap versus no weapon swap 15:42:05 weapon swap is very fast 15:42:44 I don't think many deaths can be attributed to butchering weapon swaps 15:43:57 and even if they could, I suspect that player stupidity is the dominant cause 15:44:08 it always is ;) 15:50:05 now that butchering gets interrupted every turn with a monster in view, I'd expect butchering weapon swap deaths to be nearly nonexistent 15:51:21 except from boredom 15:52:16 the character in crawl and other roguelikes is quite mad. 15:52:32 he (or she) has wandered into a dungeon in search of some relic without proper supplies 15:52:40 elliptic: That is seriously annoying behaviour btw :P 15:52:41 and then runs around killing and eating his enemies 15:52:53 nobody said adventuring was all roses and sunshine 15:52:55 galehar: bmh: I'll remove that prompt then. 15:53:20 butchering getting interrupted every turn is annoying, sure, but it would have saved my life in at least one game in the past :) 15:53:24 Had another thought though, it feel a bit odd that trolls carry around little knives... 15:53:32 elliptic: Sure :P 15:53:42 it should probably be an option though 15:54:00 ghallberg: they'll use it if they have cursed gloves 15:54:18 what are the stats on this butchering knife? 15:54:29 galehar: Yeah, doesn't feel very trolly though. :D 15:54:32 trolls can't wear gloves, but it matters for ghouls 15:54:39 and mummies 15:54:47 I wouldn't worry about it 15:54:48 bmh: There are none, it's just cosmetic. 15:54:56 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:00 ghallberg: That's too bad. I'd love to see someone win with it 15:55:11 bmh: it's not a real item. You butcher bare handed, but the message says you're butchering with your knife. 15:56:19 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:20 elliptic: Instead of an option, I'll see if I can make it smarter. Interrupt only if the monster wasn't in view in the previous turn. 15:56:38 If you start butchering with the monster in sight, you probably don't care. 15:56:46 yeah, that sounds good 15:56:52 galehar: you could also make it interrupt if the mob moves into melee range 15:57:18 bmh: you're interrupted when it, always. But it might be too late. 15:57:26 s/it/hit/ 15:57:30 Yeah, fleeing mobs are annoying. 15:58:05 not if you know throw icicle :) 15:58:38 galehar: I mean when you're butchering :P 15:58:51 of course :) 15:59:09 Does the current system stop prompting you after the first butcher order? That's the only thing I find annoying, is butching a *pile* of corpses with enemies in LOS. 15:59:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:09 the current system interrupts you every turn you are butchering with a monster in sight, so I'm not sure what you mean 16:02:48 that reminds me, if it does become an option 16:02:56 couldn't corpses just butcher themselves? 16:03:01 If your'e standing on a pile of corpses, you get prompted to butcher each one before you do any butchering at all. 16:03:03 if you want to be interrupted while butchering every turn, restarting butchering should not bring up a prompt 16:03:06 because aaaa 16:03:18 IIRC. 16:03:27 I was going to check but CDO is down and I don't have a current build on this machine. 16:03:32 trunk is on CAO now 16:04:19 Yes, but my latest, randart-studdent GhIE is yet to die on CDO. 16:04:20 drpraetor: ah, that... yeah, being prompted again after butchering was cancelled is annoying 16:04:39 randart student? 16:04:44 studded 16:12:37 Actually, it'd be nice if you could support auto-butchering of corpses with auto-explore. Nice for ghouls and low-spellcasting carnivores of Vehumet, anyway. 16:13:48 How about an "I win" button? ;) 16:14:19 DrPraetor: probably easy enough with lua 16:14:19 I've been working on the "I win" button ;P but there are still a lot of bugs with it! 16:14:27 I thought the only reason there wasn't one was that it was too hard to program 16:15:00 it's coming... 16:19:31 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:40 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:36 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:36 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:20 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:18 elliptic: should try autorobin with lobe 16:50:42 Eronarn: autorobin = automagic iron robin? 16:51:04 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:51:27 autorobin = current attempt towards "I win" button 16:51:39 bmh: autorobin = bot; has gotten pretty far in a short amount of time 16:52:05 eronarn: sure, though autorobin has issues with invis monsters that I haven't tried to address because felid 16:52:10 elliptic: how does it work? 16:52:25 just a lengthy lua script 16:52:33 everything is in the rc file 16:52:35 !rc autorobin 16:52:36 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-lorcs/autorobin.rc 16:52:37 elliptic: LO would at least have the advantage of if you can get up to passive heat the invis thing will kill itself on you 16:52:44 eronarn: yeah 16:52:52 hmm, it occurs to me that i think tension calc doesn't try to check invis 16:53:50 tension needs an overhaul 16:53:58 a few months back I had looked into tying it to wrath 16:54:57 elliptic: That script is all sorts of silly 16:55:06 it's not terrible but it has some weaknesses yeah 16:57:59 enough for one day 16:58:02 g'night o/ 16:59:13 Napkin: let us know if CDO can be reached by IP 17:00:24 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:14 eronarn: okay, 8s changed to 7s so autorobin runs in squarelos... but it doesn't know about weapons so it will just stick with the starting hand axe forever 17:08:05 it also tends to starve because it berserks too much 17:08:17 so yeah, no LOBe autorobining anytime soon :/ 17:08:46 LO? 17:08:55 ??lo 17:08:55 I don't have a page labeled lo in my learndb. 17:09:08 !learn add lo see {lava orc} 17:09:09 lo[1/1]: see {lava orc} 17:09:11 ??lo 17:09:11 lava orc[1/9]: Similar to orc warriors, but they tend to have flaming weapons. Watch out for their throw flame attack! 17:09:16 ??lo[2] 17:09:16 I don't have a page labeled lo[2] in my learndb. 17:09:21 ??lava orc[2] 17:09:21 lava orc[2/9]: If you're seeing a lava orc, that probably means you're in the orcish volcano vault (new in version .9) 17:09:31 okay, not the most useful entry anyway :P 17:09:33 ??erocrawl 17:09:34 erocrawl[1/3]: L) EroCrawl (unstable): Lava Orcs, Octopodes, Square LOS 17:09:52 I do fancy Square LOS 17:09:55 basically lava orcs are a new race coded by eronarn and available for testing on CAO 17:10:21 personally I like octopodes a lot better, at least with both races as they are currently 17:12:52 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:18 I *still* need to get a felid into Zot. I want to grab the rune and die on it. 17:16:25 hellooo 17:16:36 elliptic: I like octopodes a lot 17:20:07 IMO the balance for octopod is actually pretty good, and the only reason not to add them to crawl is if people really think that an octopus race is too silly 17:20:35 I think they should go into 0.9 17:21:30 felid is worse than octopode 17:21:34 in terms of being silly 17:22:00 so is lava orc actually 17:22:53 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24:17 I think lava orc could be a good replacement for hill orc, but it really needs improvement to the tension/temperature mechanic (and then balancing) 17:25:17 I like the Priest of Beogh though. Other thatn that HOs are kinda boring. 17:26:38 yes, HO, Mi, MD are all very similar aside from a few small details 17:29:59 Hi due! 17:30:41 HO->LO doesn't sound bad 17:32:35 No, it doesn't sound bad at all. 17:39:22 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:40:58 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:25 i'd like to make some improvements to the tension formula but it's very hard to simulate 17:44:37 it'd help if we could get some kind of internal data collection for it 17:45:22 Eronarn: what sort of data collection do you need? 17:45:35 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:43 er, rather, what sort of data do you need collected? 17:46:06 it shouldn't be that difficult to add a flag for "collection" mode which outputs the relevant data to a file on a regular basis 17:46:56 due: well, the goal would be knowing how tension varies over the game - i don't think per-turn is reasonable, but perhaps per-turn once tension spikes above a certain point? 17:48:13 or maybe a rolling average sampled constantly but recorded every once in a while, + the highest several peaks, could work 17:49:09 I don't see why per-turn tension would be problematic? 17:49:43 well, that'd be a >100k line file per (usefully long) game :P 17:50:15 well, it could record per-turn if the tension has changed since the last turn 17:50:51 using deltas like that is just a compressed version of the same data though, the problem is it's simply more values than i'd need 17:51:31 mainly i want to know: how does tension vary from branch to branch, how big/frequent are tension spikes compared to troughs, and then later on how does tweak A alter tension vs. how does tweak B alter it for either of those characteristics 17:52:13 i expect it to have a very long-tailed distribution... maybe even just an updated-per-turn frequency chart, for now, would be good 17:52:37 >0 on 144535335 turns, >3000 on 3 turns 18:06:15 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:40 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:45 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:05 Evening 18:42:25 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:28 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:07 So, since I'm closed to my beloved, doubtless soon to be YASD'd GhIE, general Q. Anyone know of a roguelike, other than the japanese one which is unplayable, where you get a party of adventurers instead of a guy? 18:48:25 ##crawl is that way. 18:50:33 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:04 -!- Whitewater has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:00 -!- Whitewater has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:40:41 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:23 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:02 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:11:32 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:12:35 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:47 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:53 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:05 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:36 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:03 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 22:59:58 -!- valrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:43 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:22 did something happen to cdo's http server? 23:53:53 * Zannick lastlog develz 23:53:54 aha 23:56:59 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]