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01:43:56 <Zaba> moin
01:46:42 <Keskitalo> Morning!
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02:43:44 <galehar> hi
02:43:48 <Zaba> moin galehar
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04:20:48 <galehar> if you apport a big pile, some of it is destroyed ("You feel that some mass got lost in the cosmic void.")
04:21:04 <galehar> that's harsh. Shouldn't it just stay on the cell?
04:38:39 <Napkin> yes! :>
04:38:48 <Napkin> morning guys
04:41:53 <Napkin> due: CAO & CDO have the same crontab entries to update Trunk :)
04:43:10 <due> awesome :)
04:43:20 <due> what you need now is distcc running between them ;)
04:44:00 <Zaba> hi due
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05:07:10 <Napkin> hehe
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05:14:29 <kilobyte> or perhaps, we could use rsync rather than gcc on CAO
05:14:49 <due> are the architectures compatible?
05:14:58 <kilobyte> amd64 on both
05:15:34 <kilobyte> and if I understood greensnark right, it needs 25 mins to do what CDO does in 5.
05:18:46 <due> Yeowch.
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05:42:03 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to  ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
05:49:29 <kilobyte> galehar: there's still no wrath for Ashenzari
05:52:39 <kilobyte> I don't have any good ideas, but the bar is very low.
05:53:34 <kilobyte> like, Che Guebriados randomly curses and confuses you most of the time
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06:23:18 <casmith789> ash has wrath
06:23:41 <casmith789> his wrath is permanent and passive
06:23:54 <kilobyte> not permanent, just long
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07:16:10 <galehar> how about a penalty to XP gained? (and evolve it into a skill penalty for next verion)
07:20:31 <kilobyte> would it be timed?
07:22:04 <galehar> with exploration, like piety gain.
07:22:15 <galehar> All wrath should use this counter btw
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07:28:34 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r2cfde76d6dfa 10/crawl-ref/source/crash-u.cc: Don't shutdown uninitialized curses during an early crash.
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07:37:48 <Ashenzari> Trying to wield an unIDed vamp weapon should autoinscribe it (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3682) by Nexos
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08:32:31 <kilobyte> Napkin, greensnark: would you be brave enough to try an Unicodified version of DGL?
08:33:56 <Napkin> always! :D
08:34:03 <Napkin> tomorrow morning?
08:34:09 <kilobyte> there's currently a regression: CSET_DEC and CSET_IBM don't work on a very minor amount of terminals, none of which I expect to be live
08:34:12 <kilobyte> sure
08:34:23 <kilobyte> I'll fix that soon though
08:35:09 <Napkin> cool
08:35:24 <Napkin> I need to upgrade DGL anyways
08:35:50 <Napkin> could you please elaborate a bit on how it works?
08:36:02 <kilobyte> do I have push rights on the repository on git.develz.org?
08:36:23 <kilobyte> there are two parts: user<->DGL and DGL<->game
08:36:33 <Napkin> yes, you do
08:36:55 <Napkin> create a branch, please?
08:37:28 <Napkin> I mean the procedure
08:38:07 <Napkin> what exactly will the new dgl do? start the binary with --print-charset first and then start it properly?
08:38:14 <Napkin> how does that work?
08:38:24 <kilobyte> for now, user<->DGL blindly tries to force Unicode and assumes one of: 1. it was already on (all modern Unices), 2. it could be forced on (almost all terminals, save for rxvt and some ancient junk), or 3. neither UTF-8 nor IBM is supported and thus the user can use ASCII (old versions teraterm)
08:38:51 <kilobyte> DGL<->game relies on a new setting in dgamelaunch.conf
08:39:19 <kilobyte> for crawl-anc, you set encoding=ibm and that's all (since ASCII is a subset of IBM)
08:39:44 <kilobyte> for 0.8 _in the future_, you'll set encoding=unicode
08:40:12 <kilobyte> for 0.6, 0.7 and today's 0.8, you set encoding=ask, and in this case it runs crawl --print-charset
08:40:55 <Napkin> what does --print-charset do?
08:41:21 <kilobyte> it makes Crawl parse its config files and write the encoding it wants to stdout
08:41:26 <Napkin> (asking, because remember, on CDO and on CAO dgl launches a script, not the binaries directly
08:41:56 <Napkin> so actually, you run "crawl --print-charset --name Napkin" so it'll know which config to parse?
08:42:08 <kilobyte> yeah
08:42:11 <Napkin> aha
08:42:34 <kilobyte> (and --rc, --morgue, and --my-little-pony, since I just append it)
08:42:46 <Napkin> is there the possibility to make this a single call?
08:43:12 <Napkin> otherwise the scripts need to figure out the proper version/save twice when starting the game
08:43:43 <kilobyte> is that a problem?  It seems like just a slight waste of CPU to me.
08:44:06 <kilobyte> note that DGL doesn't know about "crawl" being a script
08:44:13 <Napkin> there would not be a problem, if there wasn't the "transfer your save" prompt
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08:44:25 <kilobyte> oh crap, indeed
08:44:44 <Napkin> but
08:44:45 <kilobyte> could you skip that check if there's --print-charset?
08:45:12 <Napkin> we could skip it, since - as you said - it only parses the config, right?
08:45:20 <ortoslon> !learn add bad_ideas make golems beep in german http://wondermark.com/715/
08:45:20 <kilobyte> yeah
08:45:20 <Henzell> bad ideas[3104/3104]: make golems beep in german http://wondermark.com/715/
08:45:23 <Napkin> which does not change when transfering your game
08:46:18 <Napkin> but, wouldn't it be possible to combine both in 1 call?
08:46:29 <kilobyte> the other variant would be to move the charset wrapper into that script, but I'm not sure if you want to implement all that logic again
08:46:36 <Napkin> dgl calls crawl -name..... --print-charset
08:46:44 <Napkin> first line: charset
08:46:51 <Napkin> then the game starts
08:47:24 <Napkin> no, letting dgl do the wrapping is better
08:47:50 <Napkin> just asking, if there's a way around running crawl twice
08:48:26 <kilobyte> so it would check for the first line matching one of charset names?
08:48:43 <Napkin> if that's possible with dgl?
08:48:56 <kilobyte> doable, but it tricky if you have to ask "transfer your save"
08:49:10 <Napkin> ah, right again
08:49:11 <kilobyte> since the first line will _not_ be the charset
08:49:42 <Napkin> hmmm
08:50:05 <Napkin> I could of course enforce that
08:50:12 <Napkin> not sure what's better
08:50:24 <kilobyte> and good news: when you'll drop 0.7, all that complexity goes away :p
08:50:44 <Napkin> let us have a smoke and think up a solution ;)
08:50:51 <kilobyte> I think, having the script skip the question if there's --print-charset
08:51:06 <kilobyte> especially because this is coded and the alternative is not :p
08:51:12 <Napkin> oh, hehe, 0.6 will be removed soon.. 0.7 will probably be there for a while, as I know you guys ;)
08:51:18 <kilobyte> yeah
08:51:55 <Napkin> ok. you are not reentering ncurses in between the two runs, right?
08:52:22 <Napkin> is greensnark already on the move?
08:52:34 <Napkin> may take a while until he can upgrade CAO
08:54:08 <kilobyte> rats, all was cool before he decided to let CAO run trunk
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08:54:27 <kilobyte> Cryp71c: meow!
08:54:57 <kilobyte> I mean, old DGL will not work with changes I need to do.
08:55:22 <Cryp71c> Rawr
08:55:28 <Cryp71c> Took me an hour and 45 min to get to work today -_-
09:01:19 <Napkin> why so, kilobyte?
09:01:42 <Napkin> CAO has the most modern dgl&crawl at the moment - which is great :)
09:02:20 <Napkin> Cryp71c: you have my sympathies.. beat 3 hours and 45 minutes for 35 minutes trip home ;)
09:03:03 * kilobyte uses feet.  Rain or snow might be not nice, but at least the time is constant.
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09:03:42 <Napkin> 60km one way.. I wish I could use my feet, too :)
09:04:43 <kilobyte> yeah
09:05:02 <kilobyte> I'd prefer a car too, but http://w1.angband.pl/test/w.pl
09:05:35 <Napkin> hehe, weight stats?
09:05:49 <Napkin> got married in May? ;)
09:06:33 <kilobyte> no, no such disasters
09:06:38 <Napkin> hehe
09:07:10 <kilobyte> that's 2005 not may
09:07:12 <Napkin> I earned about 10kg in the last 5 years
09:07:27 <Napkin> 10 in 8 months is too much, indeed
09:07:43 <Napkin> you could give me your car! been looking for a new one anyways ;)
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09:09:59 <kilobyte> long time ago I moved from Warsaw back to the parents for a while... 3 months from 60kg to 80.
09:10:02 <Napkin> hmm.. the 20 ordinary sling bullets "shimmer wildly", but the vampiric shortblade (vampiric, which s/he doesn't like at all) just "shimmers"
09:10:12 <Napkin> yeah, parents are dangerous
09:10:49 <kilobyte> you can't ever gain more than 1 piety from a single item
09:10:59 <kilobyte> or 2 for artefacts on Nemelex
09:11:08 <Napkin> ah..
09:11:22 <Napkin> so maybe the 20 sling bullets were not counted as one?
09:11:35 <kilobyte> I bet these bullets were enchanted... or you got two lucky rolls
09:11:43 <Napkin> no
09:11:55 <kilobyte> they can't be, otherwise you would pick them up and sac one by one
09:11:56 <Napkin> same with every stack of arrows
09:13:16 <Napkin> then.. well.. ammunitions are not strictly weapongs.. prevent them from being destroyed by Elyvilon
09:14:51 <kilobyte> +0 bullets are very cheap, +1 and higher get insane prices
09:15:07 <Napkin> well, of course it could be, they were enchanted
09:15:33 <Napkin> but.. there wasn't a single stack of bullets or arrows that didn't cause a "wildly shimmering"
09:15:41 <Napkin> so I doubt they were all enchanted
09:15:45 <kilobyte> I guess it would be better to allow items to roll more than 1 piety
09:16:31 <kilobyte> like, a single gold piece of value would have X chance of giving you 1 piety, and every penny would roll independently
09:17:26 <Napkin> hmm.. i have no opinion
09:17:42 <Napkin> just found it odd, that ammunition shimmers the most
09:18:21 <Ashenzari> Canceling blink with Enter doesn't give magic contamination (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3683) by minmay
09:18:52 <upsy> speaking of ammo, is there any particular reason why identical ammo stacks don't merge in the inventory but they do on the ground?
09:18:55 <kilobyte> it's not a problem in the long run since it gives you less piety on the average, but indeed it makes it _seem_ like Ely prefers ammunition
09:19:06 <upsy> (say you have a +1 stack and you enchant a +0 stack)
09:19:07 <kilobyte> upsy: ... uhm, they do?
09:19:10 <kilobyte> upsy: ah
09:19:32 <ais523_> upsy: it probably only merges when it changes location
09:19:34 <upsy> but when you drop, they join
09:19:45 <Napkin> they also join when picking up
09:19:46 <ais523_> and it just seems to work that way because there's no way to enchant ammo on the ground
09:19:54 <Napkin> just not immediately when enchanting
09:20:01 <upsy> oh
09:20:06 <ais523_> it's interesting to note that NetHack actually has a command to merge stacks, even though they normally merge automatically, for cases like that
09:20:14 <ais523_> (#adjust then the item letter twice)
09:21:22 <kilobyte> anyway, time to trot
09:21:27 <Napkin> o/
09:21:50 <ais523_> it's kind-of rarely used
09:22:43 <upsy> so #adjust is like =i
09:23:03 <Napkin> omg, this kobold healer in d6 has more useful stuff already than the mummy assassin from d14/l8/o4
09:23:23 <ais523_> upsy: indeed
09:23:34 <ais523_> but I don't think =iaa does anything useful in Crawl at all
09:23:36 <ais523_> not that you'd expect it to
09:23:55 <kilobyte> you mean, DGL + exec axe of speed + (spriggans only) boots of speed on D:1?
09:24:15 <Napkin> yeah, kinda :D
09:25:00 <ais523_> hmm, I can't expand DGL to anything but dgamelaunch in my head
09:25:00 <kilobyte> er... s/DGL/GDA/ :p
09:25:06 <ais523_> ah
09:25:31 <kilobyte> ais523_: been cursing at it too long today
09:25:37 <Napkin> lol
09:27:17 <kilobyte> Napkin, greensnark: anyway, the "unicode" branch on crawl.develz.org/...dgl...; crawl-anc should get encoding=ibm (but =ask will work too), 0.6-0.8 encoding=ask
09:27:40 <Napkin> roger
09:27:59 <kilobyte> I'll break Crawl itself then
09:28:01 <kilobyte> bie!
09:28:08 <Napkin> greensnark: git://git.develz.org/dgamelaunch.git
09:28:12 <Napkin> ciao!
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09:29:36 <Napkin> geez... <3 git
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11:13:56 <Ashenzari> monster ghouls lose health after eating a corpse (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3684) by st
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11:33:06 <Nexos> Is there a way (via config) to increase the # of matches shown in a search, or is it hardcoded?
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12:03:23 <Cryp71c> who's making the super buff orc:4 endings, I want to know...lol
12:05:27 <Nexos> Cryp71c: got a warlord?
12:07:10 <st_> I made them
12:08:29 <Cryp71c> Nexos: like 8 high orc priests, 4 orc sorcerors, 8 orc knights, and 20 orc warriors.
12:08:46 <Cryp71c> No warlords yet, but i havn't cleared it yet.
12:11:13 <Cryp71c> gah! the cursed -5 cloak of Submission {Dam+3 Stlth++}         104 gold
12:11:18 <Cryp71c> So good, yet, so bad.
12:17:21 <Napkin> wow, haven't had that many yet.. but those new orc:4 endings are absolutely awesome! <3
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12:20:50 <Cryp71c> Yep, no warlords, just huge high orc priests and sorcs.
12:20:53 <Cryp71c> plus the knights and warriors.
12:21:01 <Cryp71c> </3 mobs of frenzied orc warriors
12:35:58 <elliptic> the orc:4 endings are a little imbalanced
12:36:06 <elliptic> the ogre one is way too easy at least
12:38:16 <st_> yes, I was thinking of removing it
12:38:32 <st_> unless someone wants to give me a new ogre monster to use
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12:38:55 <Nexos> Is there a way (via config) to increase the # of matches shown in a search, or is it hardcoded?
12:39:00 <MarvinPA> four-headed ogre
12:47:21 <Nexos> No way?
12:51:51 <elliptic> st_: could at least add an additional ogre mage
12:51:56 <elliptic> currently there is just one I think?
12:54:03 <st_> there can be up to 4, but also there could be none
12:54:32 <st_> should probably guarantee a couple and have some more possible
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13:05:58 <st_> I don't like that ending much though. It's always going to pale in comparison to the ogre/troll/giant funfest
13:06:36 <st_> I was thinking about an end with low level elves, perhaps it could replace it
13:14:10 <elliptic> yeah, that sounds good
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13:24:37 <Ashenzari> Item search order gets messed up sometimes. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3685) by elliptic
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13:59:50 <Ashenzari> "Generic Brainstorming" idea thread (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3686) by varkarrus
14:28:59 <Napkin> not replace - additionally as alternative?
14:29:59 <Ashenzari> Reading a book uses the scroll-reading code (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3687) by Eronarn
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15:58:36 <CIA-45> 03galehar * r59a4d7c3b5d8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Autofight: fire at nearest enemy if wielding a ranged weapon.
15:58:54 <CIA-45> 03galehar * r520762ec9a5f 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Don't destroy the rest when apporting part of a stack.
15:59:08 <Napkin> \o/
16:01:21 <ZChris13> Woah
16:01:22 <ZChris13> change
16:10:27 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * rfad5c31394f5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Don't destroy items apported if at the item limit.
16:11:13 <kilobyte> I pondered doing that (it's what item.is_ranged is for), but then thought it's better to not implement it at all (no loss for the player) than make it often behave badly (firing at trees, walls, etc).
16:11:43 <galehar> as I said in the message, it's better than bashing monster with your bow
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16:12:25 <galehar> anyway, I guess elliptic will use it for his bot and we can salvage some of his code for autofight :)
16:12:48 <kilobyte> it can make people rely on that... however, it's probably not so much work to let lua call cell_see_cell()
16:13:22 <kilobyte> just not sure how to pass the see-through type
16:13:45 <elliptic> well, my bot isn't likely to use ranged weapons anytime soon :)
16:13:56 <galehar> so, why the hook?
16:14:25 <kilobyte> (regular sight/also through clouds/not through glass or trees)
16:14:34 <elliptic> any lua that would help to notice issues with glass/trees would be nice though
16:15:30 <kilobyte> actually, cell_see_cell() doesn't expose seeing through clouds
16:16:02 <kilobyte> scratch the part about line of effect, player can never target that way
16:16:22 <kilobyte> (lemme check ranged weapons + Ash's scrying)
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16:17:58 <kilobyte> "Your divination affects just sight, not spellcasting." -- wrong message, correct behaviour
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16:33:48 <casmith789> whoever implemented tension; good job
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16:56:07 <kilobyte> another problem: it will shoot through friends
16:56:34 <monqy> won't it bring up a prompt in that case
16:56:42 <monqy> silly, regardless
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17:05:11 <kilobyte> it's a non-trivial fix, I just handled trees/etc for now
17:06:28 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r1c73ec2856ac 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Don't ranged autofight through walls/glass/scryed walls.
17:06:29 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r444c9471748b 10/crawl-ref/source/l_you.cc: Add you.see_cell(), you.see_cell_no_trans(), you.silenced and you.piety_rank to clua.
17:10:49 <Ashenzari> Game Crashes When Butchering Corpses (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3688) by goo
17:22:14 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r4b7de178e8b0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dbg-asrt.cc debug.h fixedvector.h): Don't say " in 'fixedvector.h' at line 72" in range check errors.
17:22:35 <kilobyte> galehar: I've been thinking about your Ash wrath idea.  It seems it's easy to game -- run around while avoiding any big fights, then kill the opponents once the wrath is gone.
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17:34:29 <kilobyte> galehar: what if we measured the wrath's length in exp instead?
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17:35:57 <Ashenzari> Description of ettin is bugged. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3689) by elliptic
17:39:15 <galehar> kilobyte: yeah, I had the same idea :)
17:43:41 <galehar> also, we can set a wrath value to something like (XP gained under god) / 10, and we scale wrath to it. Gained XP is deduced from it.
17:46:43 <Zao> Are there any gods that are useful while not gaining XP?
17:47:58 <monqy> good gods offer piety
17:48:47 <monqy> chei and fedhas aren't particularly useful, but at least their piety doesn't decay
17:49:12 <valrus> how common are jiyva altars in abyss?
17:49:18 <monqy> oh right jiyva too
17:49:24 <monqy> (for piety)
17:49:57 <monqy> for piety in the abyss if you avoid fights (not gaining xp)
17:50:11 <monqy> but it's ash wrath so ash doesn't count
17:54:15 <CIA-45> 03galehar * r77e3df9a875d 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Fix dual wielding monster's description.
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18:54:48 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r20da341cf8c0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Ashenzari's wrath.
18:54:50 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r084875d14c32 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Don't let high-power common/rare Experience card be better than legendary.
19:01:49 <Gretell> qwqw (L2 TrBe) ERROR in 'fixedvector.h' at line 72: range check error (-2 / 70) (D:1)
19:02:15 <elliptic> ^^ could someone look at that crash? I found it offline and am quite puzzled
19:04:12 <monqy> !lm qwqw crash -log
19:04:12 <Sequell> 3. qwqw, XL2 TrBe, T:356 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/qwqw/crash-qwqw-20110330-000150.txt
19:06:20 <elliptic> the crash happens sometimes (~10% of the time maybe) after killing a monster and then immediately calling a simple lua function, which isn't doing much aside from using view.feature_at(x,y) on squares
19:08:07 <due> Vixedvector crashes are annoying.
19:08:44 <kilobyte> this one should say fixedarray not fixedvector
19:10:20 <due> fixed* are annoying!
19:12:14 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r582e1ef1063a 10/crawl-ref/source/l_view.cc: Fix a lua view.feature_at() crash.
19:14:43 <elliptic> kilobyte: thanks!
19:17:47 <kilobyte> you're not going to use this to trigger a crash after death or a bad mutation?
19:18:13 <kilobyte> (not saying you in particular do, but some folks exploit such crashes this way)
19:18:16 <CIA-45> 03kilobyte * r752fcafab54b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc zap-data.h): Make rods of striking betterer: 1d5 -> 1d8.
19:18:55 <elliptic> I know that's a good reason to eliminate crash bugs, yes... this one was just crashing all my bots on D:1 :P
19:19:32 <elliptic> it didn't seem particularly reliable anyway
19:20:46 <kilobyte> it's a matter of calling it for a location outside of the map
19:21:42 <elliptic> I thought that might be it but just doing view.feature_at(-100,-100) or something like that wasn't crashing
19:22:25 <elliptic> gave a lua error message instead
19:23:11 <due> probably because the function performs a bounds check on the incoming co-ordinate
19:24:50 <kilobyte> ah indeed... it must pass in_show_bounds() check
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19:29:59 <kilobyte> for using crashes to cheat: we can save whenever something nasty happens, but it'd be tricky to do this in a way that can't be worked around by triggering messages
19:30:50 <kilobyte> felid deaths: easy.  Mutations: 56726972598 messages all around.  Random big damage: even worse.
19:31:02 <kilobyte> so probably writing correct code is the only way :p
19:32:32 <casmith789> now ogres aren't a challenge race, can we add a really hard challenge race
19:35:24 <kilobyte> ten percent more hp doesn't quite make them powerful
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22:02:17 <Ashenzari> Elyvilon's divine protection has a lower chance of success than likely intended (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3690) by DracoOmega
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22:56:34 <CIA-45> 03dolorous * re9eed9179499 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix Mantis 3684.
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23:23:43 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.8.0-a0-6042-ge9eed91 (32)
23:38:13 <Henzell> LuckyNed the Cloud Mage (L8 HEAE)  (Sewer)