00:11:39 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:15 -!- greensnark has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:21 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:19 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5951-g8f09abf 00:52:42 Deep Dwarves lose max MP when cancelling device recharging (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3660) by forbiddenSpell 00:54:24 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5951-g8f09abf (32) 00:58:19 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:30 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:52 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:08 -!- ZChris13_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:52:02 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:38 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03:14 moin 02:40:17 -!- Kurper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:26 moin! 02:58:34 what's up 02:59:45 ooh, not much, sipping a coffee and reading some news 02:59:51 how about you? ;) 03:00:14 sleepily chilling and trying to come up with something to do 03:00:26 exactly 03:00:42 hey, could you compare your connection to crawl.develz.org and crash.develz.org? 03:01:17 I really should start migrating services.. but i'm just so damn unmotivated 03:02:15 ping results are pretty much the same for both hosts 03:02:29 good 03:02:35 at least not worse :) 03:02:44 yeah, even a bit better for crash.develz.org 03:03:13 I get 30% packet loss somewhere along the way for both, though. 03:03:17 * Zaba eyes his dsl router suspiciously 03:03:44 could be just icmp being dropped 03:03:54 and other protocols being fine 03:04:17 almost 5 ms better for me (icmp) 03:04:40 moin kilobyte :) 03:04:55 Napkin: meow! 03:05:23 you are in poland, right? 03:05:57 i've had many complains from tremulous players saying that CDO has very shaky pings from poland 03:06:16 i hope it will be better with the new one 03:18:12 0 packets lost out of 692, worst ping only 56.2 (best 44.8, avg 45.4) 03:20:07 I get 56 packets transmitted, 16 received, 71% packet loss, rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 60.898/62.567/67.632/1.898 ms 03:20:25 * Zaba kicks his dsl router 03:21:32 paxed: I lost several hours of debugging due to a race in DGL (ttyrec.c). It sends SIGTERM to itself too early, making it usually lose data at the end (including error messages...) 03:22:28 paxed: what's the point of that SIGTERM anyway? The process that died will close its descriptors for the pty anyway. 03:24:52 paxed: (strictly speaking, its descendants can have the terminal open too... but no tool that uses ptys does it that way (ssh, my termrec, original ttyrec, my kbtin) and its ok) 03:25:43 paxed: you could get rid of the middle process completely, too 03:25:44 oh hey, has my mummy assassin "-2 -4" on Fire & Air Magic - when so far I only have spellcasting, summonings, necromancy & translocations skills? is that a mummy special penalty? 03:26:09 *why has 03:26:53 uhm, a bug. I've seen similar in wizmode with all skills at 27. 03:27:18 this purple -4 is in the crosstraining column 03:27:35 nowhere a purple * though 03:27:51 (like the green +4 and the * on the crosstraining skill) 03:31:32 paxed: also, that premature SIGTERM may HUP helper processes used by the game, like gzip which can still have something to do when the game has exited 03:32:51 i think greensnark stumbled over this 03:33:12 Hmm? 03:33:35 did you tell me, that there were some signals which made DGL end premature? 03:33:37 No idea about the SIGTERM 03:33:58 I hacked in the idle-killer HUP thing, but I don't remember hitting kilobyte's problem 03:34:03 Possibly I broke something then :P 03:38:08 hah, reported 03:38:22 and moin greensnark :) 03:38:25 !coffee greensnark 03:38:26 * Henzell hands greensnark a cup of latte macchiato, brewed by Makhleb. 03:38:30 Elemental skill penalty without any obvious reason (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3661) by Napkin 03:38:32 hihi 03:40:41 latte :-P 03:40:47 !coffee 03:40:48 * Henzell hands greensnark a pot of latte macchiato, brewed by Yredelemnul. 03:40:51 Bah 03:40:53 :D 03:40:58 !coffee greensnark 03:40:59 * Henzell hands greensnark a cup of café au lait, brewed by Xtahua. 03:41:03 lol 03:41:14 !coffee 03:41:14 * Henzell hands Zaba a cup of cappuccino, brewed by Xtahua. 03:41:38 !coffee 03:41:38 * Henzell hands bhaak a mug of cappuccino, brewed by Makhleb. 04:12:24 -!- Excedrin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:25 -!- dexap has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:52 puh.. -6 instead of -2 is pretty harsh as aptitude 04:14:07 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:11 are those apt values linear? 04:14:50 no 04:15:21 -!- elly has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:16:33 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 04:16:33 -!- Excedrin has quit [*.net *.split] 04:17:03 If I recall correctly, subtracting 4 means doubling the skill points needed, and adding four halves it 04:20:29 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:17 someone pretty please look at that bug? :)) 04:37:38 -!- Excedrin_ is now known as Excedrin 04:38:02 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:39:49 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:42 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 05:09:29 -!- ekiM has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:19:47 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:50 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:36 03j-p-e-g * r041d1be68d77 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Fix #3660: canceling DD recharging ability still costing max MP. 05:52:44 03j-p-e-g * rbd1ef3510f91 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation.cc player.cc): Fix #3614: if necessary, update perma-mutation if you gain a mutation. 06:10:21 -!- evilmike has quit [] 06:28:30 03j-p-e-g * r10d63e2b865f 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix #3614: wizmode creating "cards" not working. 06:37:03 -!- jpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:20 !lm xw type=crash -log 06:37:21 4. xw, XL3 FeBe, T:1740 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/xw/crash-xw-20110326-023316.txt 06:41:22 -!- jpeg has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:13 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:42 jpeg: I'm not sure if it was the same crash but n78291 mentioned that there was a crash on unIDd sustain abilities trying to ID by you losing a stat when he was playing the bot on xw. 07:06:07 it was a stat decrease by sickness if that is relevant 07:29:27 autorobin (L3 FeBe) ERROR in 'fixedvector.h' at line 72: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:2) 07:42:20 -!- bf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:46:19 -!- bf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:57 -!- ekiM has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:33 03j-p-e-g * r1fd2b29b1045 10/crawl-ref/source/dbg-asrt.cc: In the crash dump, mention if an equipped item is unid'd or melded. 08:18:36 03j-p-e-g * r328a043d8ed4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc item_use.h player-stats.cc): Fix an out-of-bounds assertion in only_unided_ring(). 08:19:07 jpeg: thanks! 08:21:35 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 08:21:45 -!- jpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:49 !tell Napkin Could you update trunk, please? We need to put xw out of his misery. ;) 08:22:50 jpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 08:23:25 if anyone else knows how to trigger an update, you're welcome to do that, as well. Thanks! :D 08:23:35 and I'm off again 08:23:37 -!- jpeg has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:33 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 08:39:05 -!- lorimer_ is now known as lorimer 09:11:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:53 roger 09:12:53 Napkin: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:15:15 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5956-g1fd2b29 (32) 09:15:54 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:52 -!- Muu has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:36 -!- Mu_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:31:40 -!- Muu is now known as Mu_ 09:58:34 03MarvinPA * r02673d105e98 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-goditem.cc: Don't consume food/mp/piety when trying to pacify invalid targets 10:02:09 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:17 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:02 -!- casmith789 is now known as megabat 11:27:12 -!- megabat is now known as casmith789 11:34:48 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:20 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:28 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:15 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:37 Unstable branch updated to: 0.8.0-a0-5957-g02673d1 (32) 11:37:29 Napkin: <3 11:37:43 alright! 11:37:55 now we need to mention the server name in that message though ;) 11:38:32 and good job! :) 11:38:35 dinner o/ 11:38:42 You blow up the tentacle! Makhleb accepts your kill. 11:38:43 Bug? 11:39:48 Napkin: Yep 11:42:26 ekiM: Sounds like a bug unless you also took out the kraken 11:42:45 greensnark: Did not, will report. 11:42:47 Although I dunno if the xp-for-damage thing affects tentacles damaging the main body in some weird way 11:43:47 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:06 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:21 greensnark: it affects only xp, never piety. And tentacles don't give any xp anyway. 11:48:33 So you don't get partial piety, cool 11:48:37 Good evening! 11:48:42 Keskitalo <3 11:49:32 I'll actually push stuff in a minute :P 11:51:07 I had no internet yesterday, and worked on a pull form 5th of March.. everything seemed to merge nicely, but I think I'll still compile and test a few maps first. 11:51:14 Just small tweaks. 11:51:22 Napkin: https://github.com/greensnark/dgamelaunch-config 11:54:05 nice, greensnark :) 11:54:41 dgl has a new website? 11:55:08 No, I hacked up that README in a hurry :P 11:55:18 ah, ok :) 11:55:22 And finding dgl website is always a bloody crazy hunt 11:55:27 What is the correct website? :P 11:55:29 hehe 11:55:45 I google it and I get the NH community wiki links :( 11:55:46 i don't remember either ;) 11:55:46 there is no dgl website. 11:56:02 no wonder it's so hard to find 11:56:07 there was a website that mentioned the RCS though 11:56:23 Ok, what's the least apocryphal dgl site 11:57:04 paxed: You could put up a page on bilious 11:57:13 Seeing you maintain dgl already 11:57:39 yeah, i think i was talking about the nethack wiki pade 11:57:40 *page 11:58:24 greensnark: nahh... currently the nethack wiki dgl page maybe. i can't be arsed to put anything on bilious :P 11:58:32 Killing kraken tentacles gives piety. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3662) by ekiM 12:00:41 Oops, I haven't pointed Henzell at 0.8 logs :P 12:00:55 I had a feeling I'd forgotten something 12:01:56 greensnark: how about hacking extra info fields into the watching menu? data would be read by dgl from text files, and the text files would be written by :P 12:02:26 I was thinking about that too 12:02:42 paxed: Yeah, I saw it in your todo today :) 12:04:18 but, like kilobyte said earlier, the SIGTERM/child process stuff needs to be redone or something. 12:04:34 unfortuantely, i haven't paid much attention to that. 12:05:07 Was that a sigterm or was it the idle sighup stuf 12:05:18 ask kilobyte 12:05:39 no, it was different from the sighup stuff 12:05:42 kilobyte: You should totally fix that and share your repo :) 12:05:46 *it was about something different 12:06:00 the whole of ttyrec.c seems to be a mess, I think we may rewrite it cleanly 12:06:06 kilobyte knows lots more about unixy things than I do anyway, easiest to get him to fix it 12:06:12 the ttyrec.c is from ttyplay package. 12:06:24 though, I'll better stay away about this before 0.8 branching 12:06:45 and iirc, there's a newer version of ttyrec.c in newer ttyplay, so that would need to be folded in, etc. 12:06:53 paxed: yeah... which is a mess too, mostly because of compatibility with 1980 Unices 12:06:54 Oh, someone's updating ttyplay 12:07:35 paxed: don't waste your time, I'm not sure about rewriting ttyrec but ttyplay _needs_ to be rewritten 12:07:45 for several reasons 12:08:08 the biggest one is corrupted display if you try to watch someone who uses a bigger terminal than yours 12:09:17 kilobyte: how would you fix that then? afaik, fixing that would mean the server would have to run a "terminal emulation" for the ttyrecs, etc. instead just outputting the ttyrec to the watcher 12:09:17 also, if there was no screen clear in a while, it can use a load of bandwidth trying to catch up 12:09:34 paxed: yes, exactly 12:09:47 would be kinda cpu intensive (eg. on nao) 12:10:16 not really 12:10:27 can't ttyplay just count? 12:10:41 "count"? 12:10:58 Ok, these FeBe bots on CAO are bad news 12:11:03 Napkin: ttyplay basically dumps the ttyrec payload to the watcher, it does nothing else. 12:11:20 I think we need a bot-throttling change to Crawl righ away 12:11:24 and the watcher's terminal takes care of interpreting the escape codes, etc. 12:11:59 if it could see/find the end of line.. couldn't it skip output according to what the terminal can display? 12:12:12 paxed: ipbt manages to take a minute for a 1MB ttyrec and several hundred megs of memory, but this is because of it 1. being terribly inefficient, and 2. taking a screen capture every single frame 12:12:18 It's not clear to me why bots need to play online. 12:12:36 I agree - can't we prevent those bots? 12:12:52 and give an official statement that we don't want any 12:12:54 Napkin: without screen clears, part of the screen could have been written a hour of play ago 12:13:12 They clear out all the real player ghosts and leave lots of identical bot ghosts, as well as using up resources. Can't people do it locally? 12:13:18 Napkin: I'd want a bot for automated testing, with as much code coverage as possible :p 12:13:28 then run it locally? 12:13:48 it's easier to collaborate on the lua scripts online presumably 12:14:21 it'd be better to have a separate setup for them, though 12:14:33 I'm fine with bots if they don't massacre the CPU, which is what a single bot is managing on CAO :P 12:14:48 kilobyte: hm. well, i guess it wouldn't be that epxensive. considering not all the games are being watched all the time anyway. 12:14:48 i mean.. we're running the servers for people.. not their bots running while they work 12:15:30 did you figure out what the terminal corruption glitch was with the too-big watcher terminal was? 12:17:13 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:20 paxed: it's not a fault of DGL... it's a fundamental flaw of how terminals react to attempts to writing text to invalid places 12:17:22 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:30 kilobyte: i know. 12:17:44 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:46 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:15 i mean this display glitch: http://pastebin.com/ELSZv9A7 12:18:17 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:17 fixing that requires parsing the stream -- ie, at least knowing where the cursor is 12:18:40 -> counting 12:18:59 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:00 kilobyte: i know how terminals work. 12:19:05 or is there a problem with unicode? 12:19:18 Napkin: not that easy. you can write bytes to the screen that don't show -> you really would need to parse 12:19:28 i've written some terminal emulations myself. 12:20:16 there are several libraries to do this, a couple of them would be useful for us 12:21:29 I'm of course biased towards mine. It can't do CJK properly at the moment, but that's 1. doable, 2. not important, 3. none of libraries that do would be usable for DGL 12:21:35 if i would write a perl script.. which behaved like dgl (menu, account management, launching games).. are there separate binaries ready I could use? a ttyrec-like thingy to wrap crawl in? a separate ttyplay 12:22:37 03Keskitalo * r7751c34971b2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/spider.des: Add a few layout guidelines to the header comment. 12:22:39 03Keskitalo * r5f9f4b3ff29c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ (7 files): Fix the portal timeout messages for unnannonced portals. 12:22:40 03Keskitalo * r2909761981f8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Small tweaks to sewer_co_purgy_island. 12:22:41 03Keskitalo * r6c50a2248f32 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: A simple sewer entry vault featuring clingers. 12:22:42 03Keskitalo * rc764c62661c9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Add early clingers to the sewer random monster set (although it's practically never used). 12:22:43 03Keskitalo * r9522d952eb57 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Give a few non-spider monsters clinging. 12:22:44 03Keskitalo * rd7f579945562 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Trivial comment fix. 12:22:45 03Keskitalo * r1e8e7f6b08b2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/icecave.des: Fix ice cave depths and comments. 12:22:45 03Keskitalo * r8fcc62c35922 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_timed.lua: Fix double messaging when an unannounced portal comes to view. 12:22:48 03Keskitalo * r110498639f6b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Add some clingers to some of the existing sewer maps. 12:22:49 03Keskitalo * rf7df286468c9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Use foo_short instead of foo2 for the short timer function and variable names for the unannounced portals. 12:23:00 Napkin: yeah... none of ready binaries I know allows seeking to the end but that's easy 12:23:02 AKeskitalo-47 12:23:36 i was thinking to do that as a second teach-me-perl-project 12:23:49 Keskitalo: How about some more nice gnoll-camp-like vaults :) 12:23:55 but i couldn't write something like ttyplay/rec 12:23:55 Everyone loves the gnoll camps! 12:24:04 why would anybody want to learn perl in 2011? 12:24:07 No internet at home -> productivity :P 12:24:16 There's a VT102 module for perl, but it's not perfect 12:24:17 bhaak: uhm, and what else would you propose? 12:24:38 a toy language that tries to emulate Fortran50? 12:24:46 or Brainfuck? 12:25:13 greensnark: Probbably not in time for 0.8 :P 12:25:23 hehe, nice one, bhaak ;> 12:25:36 sure, real men start their scripts with "#!/usr/bin/tcc -run" 12:25:53 kilobyte: if only for fun then brainfuck or intercal are a good choice :) otherwise it depends what you want to do with the language 12:27:23 heh, wikipedia calls them esoteric programming languages? geez 12:28:02 that's not really surprising. surprising is that xsl and perl are not considered esoteric languages ;-) 12:28:05 i want to learn a language that runs everywhere and is actually stable 12:28:25 english 12:28:27 C? 12:28:52 english is stable? 12:29:01 latin is stable! 12:29:11 One funny thing. I thought that by made it so that the short timer for unannounced portals starts when you see a tile from the entry vault. But turns out it only happens when you see the portal. 12:29:34 That was probably just suggested, not implemented. 12:29:57 (doesn't suaully matter that much - you autoexplore into the los of the portal most of the time anyway9 12:30:38 english is far from stable.. just the word "quitted" is killing me.. and actually, the computer doesn't do too much when I talk to it in english ;) 12:34:11 Napkin: just wait some decades then the natural language interfaces will be mature :) how do you define "stable"? 12:36:44 well, things like python are not stable in opinion. if i would learn it now.. and need it again in a year, there'll be python4 and a multitude of deprecated warning from whatever i would write then 12:42:03 hmm, as long as a language development isn't frozen that could happen almost to any language. even to perl. you never know, perl6 might come into big use :) 12:42:40 bhaak: heh, you triggered my highlight on "intercal" 12:42:49 I don't know of a single reason anyone would pick python over perl 12:43:24 or ruby, or awk 12:44:00 it just makes the library of modules fragmented 12:44:02 the risk might be less if the language has a clear design (e.g. haskell) or is already quite old (e.g. C) but with scripting languages where people are not afraid of radical changes this could happen almost anytime 12:45:17 perl has an ugly and error prone syntax (maybe not as bad as awk but I guess you can count the new awk user per year on one hand) 12:46:21 i don't really like python's "indentation matters" but i can see that it has some appeal to newbies (and it helps that source code from everywhere looks similar) 12:49:33 forced indentation can badly affect readability 12:50:01 (so can lack of indentation, but if you want to write ugly code, you can do that in any language...) 12:51:02 yes, although some languages make it easier than others to do so 12:51:21 perl is hideous 12:51:31 I don't know why anyone would pick it over python 12:52:26 valrus_: even tried doing string parsing in python? It's not pretty. 12:53:20 Kogan (L22 HuWz) (D:18) 12:53:30 !lm Kogan type=crash -log 12:53:30 2. Kogan, XL14 DEWz, T:40027 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Kogan/crash-Kogan-20110101-133446.txt 12:53:35 string parsing like what? 12:54:38 any regexp-heavy code 12:55:27 what's the difference of python's regexps to perl's? 12:55:28 valrus_, good reason to pick perl over python would be CPAN 12:55:30 perl is fine with regexes because they're ugly pretty much no matter what you do 12:55:50 (sorry, pypi is a joke) 12:56:03 Zaba: I was being a little facetious, to some extent I can understand where perl is good 12:56:17 but I find the syntax in general abominable 12:56:54 well, to be accurate, you find the cases where the permissiveness of the syntax is abused hideous. Which is normal :P 13:08:55 melding distortion is inconsistent (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3663) by KiloByte 13:09:27 Zaba: pypi is a joke? 13:09:45 What does it do wrong? 13:22:28 03kilobyte * rf45370061162 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Meld all weapons unless you're in a form that allows wielding (jpeg) 13:22:36 03kilobyte * rc3adba55d70b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc items.cc): Give a better message when trying to drop a melded weapon. 13:22:37 03kilobyte * rc3d4e692b352 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-miscast.cc: Fix malign gateways being used out of Abyss/Hells. 13:32:50 !cdo 13:32:51 clouded (L27 @ Coc:2, T:269006), ebarrett (L27 @ D:23, T:107134), hypermikee (L27 @ Shoals:5, T:98794), ekiM (L26 @ Lair:2, T:157523), Kogan (L23 @ D:21, T:136029), simonj (L19 @ Swamp:5, T:83425), offering (L16 @ D:19, T:52594), polystyrus (L13 @ Lair:5, T:24950), reid (L13 @ Lair:5, T:22618), Napkin (L12 @ Lair:4, T:34251), wafflepants (L12 @ Lair:2, T:20852), AlphaQ (L11 @ D:8, T:12973), minmay (L11 @ D:13, T:2116.. 13:33:13 @players 13:33:13 clouded (L27 @ Hell, T:269018), ebarrett (L27 @ D:23, T:107134), hypermikee (L27 @ Shoals:5, T:98794), Kogan (L23 @ D:21, T:136029), simonj (L19 @ Swamp:5, T:83425), offering (L16 @ D:19, T:52594), polystyrus (L13 @ Lair:5, T:24950), reid (L13 @ Lair:5, T:22618), Napkin (L12 @ Lair:4, T:34251), wafflepants (L12 @ Lair:2, T:20852), AlphaQ (L11 @ D:8, T:12973), minmay (L11 @ D:13, T:21168), Soadreqm (L8 @ D:5, T:3690),.. 13:34:37 !players 13:34:48 13 players: Olesh, Cholfo, dlk, rphoffm, Erev, IonFrigate, Orshelack, Andronikus, uhoh, jrs83b, mindloss, qubitsu, Maceface 13:37:02 Eronarn: octopodes currently require a shield to be bound under Ashenzari. And their crapload of jewels still counts as a single level of bondage. Is this intentional? 13:38:22 kilobyte: they can wear hats, so they can be bound that way 13:39:07 and, yeah, i really dislike the felid specialcasing for ash 13:39:33 why? They have three items, it's pretty natural. 13:40:21 if we had a race that couldn't use equipment, i'd hope we wouldn't specialcase them to always count as bound 13:40:46 being bound isn't about having all of your equipment bound, it has fairly specific rules 13:40:51 if you can't wield a weapon, tough 13:40:55 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:15 we still need to fix Che Guebriados, he's useless unless you have 5 non-shield slots. Felids could be disallowed (just as spriggans and centaurs should be IMO), but everyone else with limited slots... 13:41:16 !players -ea 13:41:41 i really liked the idea of merging chei and ash 13:42:13 chei has no flavor to speak of, really 13:42:16 'slow god' 13:42:25 getting rid of Chei's stat crutch and all the crutches Ash got in the last few days would be great 13:42:31 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:59 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:04 yeah, the butchering invocation is just disgusting 13:44:22 i can't believe that one wasn't instantly reverted 13:44:34 !players -ea 13:44:35 11 active players: Olesh (L27 DSIE @ Lair:1, T:207144), dlk (L18 KoBe @ IceCv, T:40524), rphoffm (L15 DEWz @ Snake:4, T:63263), Erev (L14 OgSt @ Elf:1, T:44940), IonFrigate (L14 SENe @ D:17, T:34033), Orshelack (L14 DEAE @ D:15, T:38871), Andronikus (L12 SpEn @ D:13, T:18993), jrs83b (L10 MuWz @ D:10, T:22279), Isvaffel (L1 CeCK @ D:1, T:0), tJener (L1 NaTm @ D:1, T:0), violetj (L1 MfIE @ D:1, T:0... 13:44:52 !players -ea 13:44:52 12 active players: Olesh (L27 DSIE @ Lair:1, T:207144), dlk (L18 KoBe @ IceCv, T:40524), rphoffm (L15 DEWz @ Snake:4, T:63263), Erev (L14 OgSt @ Elf:1, T:44940), IonFrigate (L14 SENe @ D:17, T:34033), Orshelack (L14 DEAE @ D:15, T:38871), Andronikus (L12 SpEn @ D:13, T:18993), jrs83b (L10 MuWz @ D:10, T:22279), Isvaffel (L2 CeCK @ D:2, T:1592), test (L1 GhAK @ Abyss, T:7), tJener (L1 NaTm @ D:1, T... 13:45:05 Ash has a mad flurry of radical changes 13:46:15 some insane, like that setting all skills to 6 with additional restrictions... everyone else could see that as outright useless 13:46:41 kilobyte: the thing with that is that it's going to be very hard to balance 13:46:46 and no one told me how the hell are we supposed to balance that before the release 13:46:46 even if you boost it to, say, 9 13:46:49 yeah 13:46:52 useless for a lot of characters 13:47:03 right 13:47:03 kind of broken for, say, something like a HOTm 13:47:05 !apt HOTm 13:47:06 Could not understand "hotm" 13:47:09 !apt HO 13:47:10 HO: Air: -2, Armour: 1, Axes: 2!, Bows: -1, Charms: -1, Conj: 0, Xbows: -1, Dodge: -2, Earth: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100!, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 1, Maces: 1, Nec: 0, Poison: -1, Polearms: 1, Shields: 1, Short: 0, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -2, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 13:47:23 tmut => 9, spc => 9, tloc => 9 13:47:38 i.e., enough to cast blade hands, phase shift, and have lots of slots 13:47:52 for no XP investment; letting you pour that into unarmed 1 13:48:42 this won't make HOTm a broken character or anything, the characters strongest affected by this will probably still be weaker than the current strongest characters 13:48:47 but it does dramatically change which combos are good 13:49:09 right 13:50:53 what angers me the most is that we try hard to balance the god... half a year passes with details being fixed, then suddenly everything gets turned head over hells, with gaping balance issues, just a few days before freeze 13:51:33 and people push for putting that in 0.8 without any testing at all 13:52:00 i wouldn't mind dramatic changes if they actually seemed to fit with the god 13:52:08 or were compelling for some other reason 13:52:40 it's not about not fitting a theme... 13:52:53 even a perfect design needs some testing 13:55:37 i don't mind letting something in with less testing, because i don't think we should ship with old ash 13:55:50 but, i don't think we should at all be scrambling for a last-minute fix, here 13:56:08 with the butchering thing being the worst example of this 13:56:32 it shows just a total disregard for consistency, theme, etc. 13:58:41 geez, nobody in here is having total disregard for any parts of the game, Eronarn 13:59:15 using such language is really annoying and offensive 14:05:50 Napkin: sure they are. ashenzari's original flavor was that he could not interact with the world 14:05:59 now he corrupts your scrolls and butchers corpses for you. 14:06:45 ash development has been, one step at a time, moving further and further away from the promising parts of the initial proposal 14:07:44 "sure they are" what? 14:12:23 sure they are totally disregarding consistency and theme, if I may suggest what I think he meant 14:52:42 the new fire storm targetting is quite hard to use 14:53:29 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:13 you can't even disable it with : while targetting 14:59:27 everything just becomes a purple mass, it's difficult to see what monsters you're actually targetting and which square the cursor is on 14:59:29 opposing elementary magic schools are penalized even if both not known (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3664) by doublep 15:04:14 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:48 -!- casmith789 is now known as megabat 15:05:48 Afternoon 15:06:13 -!- OG17 has quit [Quit: OG17] 15:07:12 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:48 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:35 "You hear a distant snort." - hey, what's that? 15:18:50 Hi Cryp71c! 15:20:00 btw - force_more_message setting causes a more too, when loading a game and there's a matched message in that part of the history, that's shown on screen 15:20:39 (which causes a blank screen with the messages and the --more-- prompt only 15:20:40 ) 15:22:20 * kilobyte snorts at Napkin. 15:22:31 :D 15:22:33 ;-P 15:26:31 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:32 03kilobyte * r21c1dad8b85e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 6 dirs): My stab at Ignacio the executioner. Doesn't spawn yet. 15:31:24 ^^ what the fuck is that 15:31:25 what 15:31:26 is that 15:31:44 unique executioner?! 15:31:52 some dumb unique executioner with a weapon, or something 15:32:15 and agony 15:35:47 Hmm, unique demons are cool but aren't executioners made out of weapons? 15:40:10 did you read the patch? 15:40:24 "Although his new form includes a number of large razor-sharp blades growing from his demonic appendages, he kept his favourite axe and is eager to let you test its edge." 15:41:59 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:13 03dolorous * rdd69363c10ef 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Tweak wording and punctuation. 15:42:55 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:46 Wrong message when trying to read an unidentified spellbook from the floor (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3665) by smock 15:45:37 -!- megabat is now known as casmith789 15:50:00 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:14 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:14 03dolorous * r67e46aa044f4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Tweak wording. 16:16:13 03galehar * r2c61913c3976 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Don't reskill from fighting. 16:16:24 03galehar * r0eb09a90cbee 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): Reskilling: keep the same letters between the from and to menu. 16:22:13 03dolorous * rc5ce23998ecf 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Mark Ignacio as worshipping Makhleb. 16:50:17 Ashenzari gives nonsensical warning about Mara. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3666) by turnerjer 16:55:45 that's a great warning 16:56:12 could that "monsters don't enter clouds" thing be reverted? It's not very well thought out 16:56:29 eg FE in lair, people cutting zig levels in half with firestorm 16:58:58 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:00:20 auto-picking up dropped items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3667) by TGW 17:13:45 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:45 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:04 hi 17:43:36 hi 17:54:49 kilobyte: I like Ignacio's flavour. 17:55:38 Crawl Tiles spans across dual monitors (vertically) (Linux Mint 10, Gnome, Nvidia Twinview) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3668) by danr 17:57:21 !tell kilobyte made a small wiki for the firestorm thing https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:fire_storm_targetting 17:57:22 st_: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 17:58:42 !tell kilobyte Mara and his clones should al have the same weapon.. 17:58:43 due: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 17:58:58 due: yeah, makes sense 17:58:58 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:59:49 st_: showing firestorm's range: "generally making the screen look very busy and confusing"? I don't get this one. It shows what will be hit, what might be hit and what will not. 18:00:08 which is a big problem with 0.7 targetting 18:00:40 Napkin: can you change danr's wiki ticket to DCSS? I don't seem to bbe able to. 18:00:52 it's just a lot of info 18:00:54 mmh? 18:00:59 ah 18:01:07 -!- Gretell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:35 nooo gretell! :( 18:01:52 probably died again because of an error 18:02:02 the only way to see if a monster is in or possibly in the blast is if it's black/magenta or darkgrey/magenta so thats not easy to tell 18:03:46 OG17: what changeset was this in? 18:04:14 huh? 18:04:18 when you add lots of monsters and almost every space is a monster then it's hard to see where the difference for "will hit" and "maybe hit" is 18:04:18 st_: hmm, monsters I tried it on all change colour when coming in/out of range 18:04:26 the clouds? I don't know, think it was galehar's 18:04:53 due: I guess you tried via "Update Issue"? You need to use the "Move Issue" button instead. 18:05:13 Napkin: ahhh 18:05:18 they do change, but it's not easy to (on my termal at least) 18:05:21 done, though :) 18:05:23 easy to see* 18:05:29 Napkin: thanks! I'll try to remember next time :) 18:05:42 np :) and good morning! :) 18:07:10 OG17: how long ago? bencause I can't see any recent ocmmit message of such type 18:07:44 st_: how do they look on your screen? On mine it's gray-on-magenta vs black-on-magenta. 18:08:09 st_: and I don't recall redefining anything wrt branding save for items on traps 18:08:10 yes, same, but that's not easy to see apart unless I look closely 18:08:12 Ah. 18:08:19 48aafb78fca1d16ced2c0b9821e87e09eebc89be? 18:08:50 st_: ah, so on your terminal gray is very dark, right? 18:08:52 I think that's the one 18:09:09 Might be worth filing a bug highlighting the issues it introduces. 18:10:13 can't right now but I'll put something up later tonight 18:15:25 kilobyte: that's not that big of a problem though, if I could see the square I'm highlighting better it wouldn't matter at all really 18:15:37 I think that's the main problem I'm having 18:16:36 st_: as in, the "crosshair", right? 18:16:42 yeah 18:17:49 oh, orbs of fire and giant spores masquerade as it, too 18:26:18 "Your rock worm zombie tries to hit the rock worm, but is blocked by the rock wall." <- missing feature 18:26:48 not sure about this but, instead of highlighting everything, instead just the glyph colour could change. It would be easier to tell lightmagenta vs magenta than all magenta and black vs darkgrey 18:27:13 orc sorcerers, orc wizards... 18:27:59 the old scheme (still used for everything but firestorm and reaching) uses black-on-magenta 18:28:38 would glyphcolour-on-magenta be fine 18:28:45 or did I miss something 18:29:37 but you can't see if it's in the blast or possibly in the blast with that 18:30:59 kiku's corpses is really very week now 18:31:06 *weak :( 18:31:10 (you would know by counting spaces but it wouldn't display) 18:31:33 this part doesn't matter much for firestorm since it's trivial to see the edge... but with clouds, there's often a huge area "possibly affected" 18:32:01 -!- ekiM has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:07 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:33 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:36 03galehar * r87d5bf9da2f2 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix autopickup of stacks under Ashenzari. 18:42:47 03galehar * r1d62eb129665 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc enum.h item_use.cc item_use.h): Fix unwield message. 18:48:13 03kilobyte * r6a437510fcdd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large.des: Drop the WEIGHT for forest_0.8, tone down the Trog temple. 19:35:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:32 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:20 03dolorous * ra727ed6a5490 10/crawl-ref/source/it_use3.cc: Add formatting fixes. 19:59:03 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:02 -!- syllogism has quit [] 20:08:27 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:38 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:06 !tell galehar thanks! it seems to still happen with chunks, though not with anything else 20:20:06 TGWi: OK, I'll let galehar know. 20:20:40 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 20:27:13 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:08 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:50:26 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:52 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:07 -!- valrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:09 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:05 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:51 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:55 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:40 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:56 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:59 hey guys, I just wrote up a full ranged combat overhaul proposal on the wiki to hopefully improve the interface 22:59:07 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:17 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:22 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:54 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:44 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:51 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:39 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:05 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:52:23 actually prevent hell effect banishment (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3669) by MrMisterMonkey 23:52:28 please apply thanks 23:58:09 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev