00:20:00 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:35 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:58 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:54 inaccessible ancient champions vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3523) by mikee 02:35:26 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:05 -!- evilmike has quit [] 04:31:29 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:20 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:02 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:55 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:44 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:42 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:01:20 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:52 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:27 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:04 -!- Moriasc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:09 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:38 -!- bhaak is now known as kerio` 06:38:55 -!- kerio` is now known as bhaak 06:39:27 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:45 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 06:56:51 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:12 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:07:23 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:07 -!- mspang has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:41 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:15 -!- Moriasc has quit [Quit: brb] 07:46:41 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:39 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:10 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:08 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:39 -!- Moriasc has left ##crawl-dev 08:55:06 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:59 nobody inß 09:10:59 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:31:42 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:56 -!- Moriasc has left ##crawl-dev 09:56:25 03MarvinPA * r039c1995bdc7 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Shift columns slightly on % screen 09:56:29 03MarvinPA * r50f1929fdc01 10/crawl-ref/source/ (book-data.h spl-book.cc spl-cast.cc spl-data.h tilepick.cc): Make Symbol of Torment a monster-only spell 09:56:32 03MarvinPA * rbddcff13544a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Remove Extension 09:56:32 03MarvinPA * rf7fa02884e6d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (book-data.h spl-cast.cc spl-data.h spl-zap.cc tilepick.cc): Make Banishment a monster-only spell 09:56:41 03MarvinPA * r01a2254fcae1 10/crawl-ref/source/aptitudes.h: Lower Felid Conjurations apt to -2 09:56:42 03zaba * r50a9c2b67e18 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/traps.des: grate_trap: layout_cave -> layout_caves. 09:56:53 03MarvinPA * r1064369efae5 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Artificers always start with scroll of recharging identified 10:00:59 Whoo more removed spells 10:04:07 removed spells is good 10:04:07 yes! 10:04:28 :) 10:05:22 i don't think 0.8 is quite even with spells added vs spells removed, but it's a lot closer now at least :P 10:05:52 when exactly is 0.8 due, anyway? Today is already march :P 10:08:06 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:09:38 Torment was useless, no one used Banishment as a spell, I agree with those. Removing Extension -- quite pointless but not a bad issue. But nerfing an already bad apt when we had the race pretty well balanced? I don't get it. 10:10:25 the only person to argue for that claimed that it's among the best races, listing Ce and DG as those 10:11:13 people use banishment all the time, espescially in tomb 10:12:10 hm, well -1 isn't really bad at all, i've won a couple felids as pure conjurers really easily when they're supposed to be bad at it 10:12:23 people doing Tomb tend to have better tools but yeah 10:12:29 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:47 and i thought more people agreed that felids are pretty powerful, i'm not too attached to the change if you want to revert it though :P 10:12:48 I'm a tiny bit iffy on Banishment myself, especially as it's a cool Transloc spell.. but maybe you can just go Lugonu if you want to Banish a lot. (I've never used either.) 10:13:10 since when they're supposed to be bad? It's not supposed to be their forte but they're no trolls either. 10:13:29 doesn't their description say they're poor at directly damaging magic? 10:13:57 there's exactly one person who argued for that... arguing for the removal of the whole race as "inappropriate for 0.8" 10:14:14 yeah, that's -1 apt 10:14:32 I believe that Banishment is much better than players give it credit for. (Then again, players also refuse to use draining ego weapons, because they're silly xp hogs. :) Then again, removing the spell strengthens Lugonu's flavour, and I am always fine with that. (And there is banishment from card, too.) 10:14:33 nerfing a skill apt, unless it's one that most builds for the race rely on, doesn't make the race significantly worse, just limits its options 10:14:40 Felids advance in levels very slowly, and 10:14:40 are not very gifted in directly damaging magic, but make good summoners, 10:14:40 enchanters or transmuters. 10:14:42 i guess i'm used to thinking of -1 as a good apt, since i play DS a bunch 10:15:08 -1 is not bad at all, yeah 10:15:08 i'd definitely argue that felids are really powerful, though (although i don't want them removed!) 10:15:17 purrrr 10:15:38 how much of a difference does the nine-lives thing make? my guess is not very much, but I'm not sure 10:15:57 I am officially sick (went to the doctors today), that's why I didn't commit to becoming branch officer. :( 10:16:21 ais523: it seems to be enormous. 10:16:47 dpeg: awww :/ hope it's not awful! 10:16:51 it means you never truly feel in danger 10:17:01 hmm, the equivalent of an extra eight guaranteed escapes would seem to be within statistical fluctuation, so the difference seems likely to be due to being able to play more aggressively 10:17:17 either that, or dodging unavoidable deaths where escape items wouldn't help, although those should hopefully be quite rare 10:17:30 if having nine lives is powerful, that might be an indication of balance issues elsewhere 10:17:57 the trick is always playing as the current life was your last 10:18:20 ais523: compare with NEthack without random "oLS, and one class starting with 8 of them. 10:18:41 I'm really enjoying the FeBe 10:18:42 dpeg: it would make basically no difference, other than the existence of the polyself glitch that requires "oLS to perform 10:18:42 It makes matters easier, because you can spend a life or two to get some strategic advantage. 10:18:52 Also, many lives end early... not so for the Felid. 10:18:56 a "oLS in NetHack is basically equivalent to a !oFH and one turn 10:19:14 ais523: well, that's an indication something is fundamentally wrong in Nethack. 10:19:20 which is admittedly useful in the endgame, but not by much 10:19:22 There was a brief bit in late Lair, Orc, where it felt non-challenging, but now that I started descending D again the difficulty ramped back up. 10:19:32 dpeg: heh, to me it's an indication that something is fundamentally wrong in Crawl 10:19:44 I really must get round to writing my opinions on roguelike design some day 10:19:49 but I'm busy at work atm 10:19:49 woah, removed torment/banishment! :O 10:19:55 Keskitalo: people claim FeBe are powerful, it might be good to nerf them 10:20:03 ais523: Crawl has many fewer live saving options (we're fine with <100% win rates). 10:20:12 yes, I know, and that's deliberate 10:20:16 which is sort of exactly the opposite side to Cj 10:20:17 ais523: yes, please do. I also did that at some point. 10:20:26 I've been gathering info for a while, actually 10:20:32 kilobyte: I like the BiA idea from yesterday (or was it earlier?) :) 10:20:36 talking to players who are good at both NetHack and Crawl, that sort of thing 10:20:44 because I'm not good enough at Crawl myself to make a fair assesment of it 10:20:59 MarvinPA: when swarms go in, we can do what i proposed there for distortion, for a banishment replacement: a spell that removes the target from time for some amount of time 10:21:08 what seems very clear is that there are multiple different philosophies of roguelike design, some in which NetHack is balanced and interesting and Crawl isn't, some in which it's the other way round 10:21:17 and it's easy for fans of one game to miss the advantages of the other 10:21:51 Eronarn: sort of like a blink through time, rather than space? 10:22:13 dpeg: What do you think of Brothers in Arms only working when you were on the offense? 10:22:36 ais523: yes 10:22:36 Keskitalo: short duration that extends every time you attack something, or something like that? 10:22:39 dpeg: Ideas floated: need to be in LOS; need to not retreat from enemy; need to be Berserk yourself 10:22:41 that'd fit with Trog's theme 10:22:53 ais523: That's another good idea 10:22:53 as Berserk extends the same way 10:23:24 -!- xyblor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:27 you could make the BIA berserk duration be extended by *your* actions 10:23:38 exactly the same way as berserk 10:23:57 (have to go soon, so an unrelated question) dpeg: I'm making a Forest mockup for 0.8, just a large encompass level. Would it be ok to use little or no randomization, or should I try harder to avoid the map being fixed? 10:24:22 ooh, Forest <3 10:25:02 Eronarn: not a bad idea, the ogres can be miffed if they see you ignoring the fight 10:25:59 BiA summons should turn hostile when they see you ignoring the fight :P 10:26:08 Keskitalo: just a single vault, but with the Enchantress and a representative selection of heavies. 10:26:23 Sounds like a good start for the branch. 10:26:41 kilobyte: forest wyrms!! 10:27:07 branch or portal vault? 10:27:24 kilobyte: just make the map 10:27:32 also, I like forest wyrms too, although they'd be a little annoying for melee characters 10:27:37 well, more than a little annoying 10:27:47 I can also randomise a bit on my own. 10:27:51 Eronarn: how ready are they? 10:28:14 ais523: i think they'd actually be worse for casters: they hit HARD, and their breath blocks your LOS to them as they approach 10:28:16 ais523: just an encompass level for now 10:28:33 Erm, I seem to have two staricases to the Vaults.. 10:28:42 Keskitalo: mimic 10:28:43 Ah yeah 10:28:57 kilobyte: pretty ready! the major outstanding issues are them not always pathing properly, tuning the breath weapon/difficulty/etc., and potential scummability with them being tree-tramplers (but i don't see this as a big issue) 10:29:10 changes to bia are fine 10:29:16 speaking of mimics, i like jpeg's suggestion on the 0.8 plan page 10:29:19 The Learnean hydra already stomps through trees 10:29:20 another idea: only works when a book is burning 10:29:23 MarvinPA: what is it? 10:29:33 I think we should get rid of trap mimics, and postpone portal and branch stair mimics to 0.9. Normal stair mimics are fine, and I'm convinced that we can iron out chinks in door and shop mimics in time for 0.8. — jpeg 2011-02-22 19:26 10:29:44 MarvinPA: sounds good 10:30:04 I'd like to propose that all forms of recall work across levels with no additional cost. It would solve most of the permanent ally problems, make beogh and yred more playable, and buff things that need it. If that's too tactically strong, make recall a status effect that summons one ally per turn (allies currently on the level still get recalled all at once). 10:30:04 I just added air mages (airstrike is deadly on that map), but lightning always starts a big fire 10:30:15 Keskitalo: yes, but it's much much stronger, so you have no possibility to lead it around a level to dig 10:30:31 xyblor: I don't think that'll go in 10:30:33 forest wyrms are dam 35 regenerators 10:30:36 Summoning allies is too strong. 10:30:41 which sounds similar to what you say about tree trampling 10:30:44 that is tough, but not so tough that you can't dance them around 10:30:47 At the very least, we need summon caps before. 10:31:08 kilobyte: one mitigating factor is that both trampling trees and casting lightning bolts is VERY noisy 10:32:06 dpeg: but currently you can have as many allies as you want, wherever you want, as long as you are willing to put up with huge annoyances 10:32:10 regarding BiA: what about the player having to be berserk and/or a book has to burn? 10:32:22 xyblor: zombies not anymore 10:32:25 (also, if forest gets a rune: I'd love a map where the rune is inside a round area of forest that is full of forest wyrms, so when they spot you, they stampede out of the rune chamber and open it up for you) 10:32:44 dpeg: I wasn't talking about zombies, just allies that can travel across levels 10:32:47 just pushed a woody arena for testing 10:32:54 but yes, the underlying issue is infinitely many allies... we will fix that 10:33:02 now that good souls have fixed killstealing 10:33:04 thanks mates! 10:33:20 death channel change sounds like it actually made it worse bw 10:33:30 it wasn't very good to start with but at least it was permanent 10:33:40 yeah, by a lot 10:33:41 now it's just worse haunt 10:33:48 surely autotraveling is a bigger problem than unlimited allies 10:33:54 or more like animate dead 10:34:17 i don't mind buffing it (or nerfing haunt) but i think conceptually it's better now and doesn't have all the annoyances of permanent allies 10:34:22 i'd like to see it be hex/nec, a long-lasting touch spell that doesn't go away from striking things 10:34:36 and when you do touch something, its soul is claimed as yours 10:34:48 you have a fetish for touch spells don't you 10:35:04 st_: i like interesting spells, and touch spells are interesting because they cannot be readily spammed 10:35:08 and require some forethought 10:35:12 MarvinPA: I fully agree with removing permanent allies, it just makes the spell even more useless than it was before 10:35:17 permanent allies are generally hard to get, not that great, and die pretty fast 10:35:24 i don't want more than a handful of touch spells in the game, but touching someone to claim their soul is pretty flavorful 10:35:35 you can get both zombies and spectrals out of death monsters with it!! 10:36:00 (I don't actually have an opinion) 10:36:06 spectrals + simulacra + skeletons :P 10:36:49 I don't really see what's the worst that could happen if you allow unlimited recallable ally armies 10:37:20 more or less the same that would happen if you allowed people to animate a hundred giant spiked clubs on every level? 10:38:01 but how could you ever get 100 perma-pets? 10:38:44 well, with old death channel you could 10:39:08 yeah, this reminds that Tukima's Ball needs to be axed for players, as it hasn't been fixed yet 10:39:24 but now you can only have one enslaved soul at a time, right? 10:40:17 if you're actually using your allies, they will die a lot faster than you can replace them 10:40:18 a level 8 spell that does the same as a level 1 one... just capable of using stairs 10:40:56 xyblor: The problem would be that you can stash the allies on one level, then recall as needed. The trickling idea sounds kind o finteresting though. 10:40:56 03kilobyte * r948a7ddc0c3a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Don't spawn ancient champions on Crypt:5. 10:40:57 03kilobyte * r8e26660ceba6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix spriggans having no defined body shape. 10:40:57 03kilobyte * r42b8c6d3f2fa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/arena.des: A woodland arena. 10:40:58 03kilobyte * r641841d9a088 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc cloud.cc): Fix an arena crash. 10:41:00 03kilobyte * r903e5585f8db 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Full of wind little guys to utilize the "corridors" in Forest. 10:41:16 xyblor: Ah bah, you could probably do that in a safe spot.. 10:41:25 death channel might be better as a passive thing for yred or something 10:41:27 Recall could be made hugely noisy of course :] 10:41:31 Keskitalo: even instantly recallable armies is no worse than say, foxfire 10:41:55 Nemelex being overpowered is a separate issue :P 10:42:21 but you've earned those allies! you should be able to use them, dammit! 10:42:59 Keskitalo: no, trickling won't work. It is abusable. 10:43:08 a couple of legendary summoning decks make Zot:5 trivial 10:43:31 That A is broken should not be an excuse to make B broken, too. 10:44:05 legendary summoning is not broken 10:44:18 what about having ornate/legendary summoning have a chance of being hostile? 10:44:28 it's something you generally had to work at, and save up for emergencies 10:44:43 currently they are strictly non-harmful (with Crusade being usually just a waste of turn) 10:45:07 summon herd is often a waste of a turn too 10:45:18 even using decks quite liberally leaves you with ~15 legendary and 30 ornate summonings by the end of a 3-runer 10:45:47 and that without scumming piety for using cards 10:46:11 you don't get extra summonings in a 15-runer, though 10:46:33 foxfire could get a mix of friendly and hostile summons sometimes (depending on evoc/card power/whatever) 10:46:51 I really don't like the direction this conversation is taking :P 10:46:52 (I mean, 15 surplus legendary, not counting those you used up) 10:46:52 since it's probably one of the worst offenders, and i think they're only ever hostile at power 0 10:46:55 03dolorous * r66610049ce52 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Add formatting fixes. 10:46:56 03dolorous * r4499b1b1b977 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Remove references to Bone Shards and Tame Beasts; move tiles to UNUSED. 10:47:07 xyblor: :p 10:47:17 xyblor: foxfire really is pretty absurd :P 10:48:34 i don't want to completely ruin decks of summoning or anything, but a few cards could definitely do with some tweaking 10:48:53 it appears only Pentagram is always friendly 10:48:55 at least with allies, we're talking about a resource that's quite hard to renew 10:49:38 in I think all other cases: friendly = (power_level > 0 || !one_chance_in(4)) 10:49:51 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:20 xyblor: yeah, insanely unbalanced in a 3-runer, need to be conserved in a full game 10:50:20 MarvinPA: the cards/decks never got a proper secound round of tweaking. If you can improve balance, by all means go ahead. 10:50:52 Destruction is useless, save for increasing piety 10:51:01 another possibility would be to tweak some of the rarities, so that pentagram/foxfire are a little less common or whatever 10:51:12 what if there was a cap on number of ally abominations? 10:51:34 is there any other infinitely renewable perma-pet? 10:51:46 not just Torment, but also Pain -- losing 1/5 of a level every time you draw a legendary one 10:52:33 xyblor: the only allies with any sort of a cap are: 1. elementals, 2. enslaved souls 10:53:00 so you're worried about what? orcs? crusade-allies? 10:53:43 afraid that zot:5 will be trivial with 20 orcs? 10:53:44 are elementals from the spell capped? 10:53:52 i thought it was just the stone/fan 10:54:44 lemme check 10:55:04 _The wandering mushroom hits the fungus! 10:55:08 this seems like it should never happen 10:56:04 MarvinPA: no cap, you're right 10:56:05 the summon cap should (imo) count over all current minions 10:56:28 but we shouldn't get lost in deck balancing talk unless you'll really change it :) 10:58:45 i might have a look into just changing some of the card rarities and friendliness chances in decks of summoning, unless someone else wants to do it 10:59:24 MarvinPA: +1 11:00:01 what should the minion cap be then? 8? 11:00:34 (how often does anyone have more than 8 anyway?) 11:00:53 xyblor: it should depend on Summon skill, I think 11:01:17 no way, beogh and yred worshippers shouldn't be forced to learn magic 11:01:29 xyblor: oh, spamming monsters until you've a roomful is common, I think. 11:01:39 xyblor: ah, those are gods :) 11:01:58 03dolorous * r582bf173b10b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (descript/spells.txt lua/wield.lua): Remove the last references to Bone Shards and Tame Beasts. 11:02:08 there are no spammable perma-pets 11:02:32 presumably the cap would only be for summons 11:02:45 (which is why they should be recallable across levels) 11:02:53 upsy: including enslaved monsters, perhaps 11:02:54 and zombies etc 11:03:08 I should play more summoners. 11:03:56 i don' think enslavement is powerful enough to warrant that though? 11:03:58 t 11:04:10 it doesn't really matter since nobody uses it 11:04:29 wand-enslaved? or enslaved souls? 11:04:43 wand 11:04:51 but it's really about Summon spam 11:04:55 they're not permanent anyway? 11:05:13 you can whittle down surprisingly big monsters with spammals 11:05:39 okay, but that's not related to inter-level recall 11:05:48 03dolorous * r5db7091baef9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Remove description of now-unused Portal spell. 11:05:53 yes, but interlevel recall is really problematic anyway 11:05:59 I'm not sure summon cap matters that much with spammals vs stone giants, if it's enough to surround it.. 11:06:08 Keskitalo: sure it does 11:06:14 well, maybe if it's like 8 critters, the stone giant will reach you eventually 11:06:40 but the old trampling suggestion would also work for that 11:06:51 the giant would just stomp through the spammals 11:07:09 Keskitalo: it's a difference if you can surround an enemy in one or two layers 11:07:14 Keskitalo: yes 11:07:33 dpeg: what's problematic about interlevel recall that can't be solved by a cap on permanent allies? 11:07:34 dpeg: But you can renew the layers once enough spammals are killed 11:08:04 Keskitalo: but it is more risky 11:08:32 xyblor: intralevel recall is already disgusting... the interlevel version is just worse 11:08:40 interlevel recall doesn't allow you to do anything that you couldn't anyway just by hauling your allies to a level and telling them to wait in a safe place - possibly apart from recalling at the start of v:8 11:09:15 yeah it basically just makes the game less irritating to play 11:09:41 for one, it could mean that you get _two_ shots at a meat shield: one from local allies, second from allies elsewhere 11:09:46 12:05 <@dpeg> you can whittle down surprisingly big monsters with spammals 11:09:52 spammals *still* can summon more than one monster 11:09:56 i don't get why this exists at all 11:10:19 The problem should be solved by looking at permanent allies. Either remove or invest thought into those. I made a proposal for Beogh. 11:10:22 it's a L1 spell, it's a bug if you can use it to kill things safely throughout the entire game 11:12:15 If it turns out that permanent divine allies are not sustainable, so be it. Crawl did not have them for the longest time, for very good reasons. 11:12:31 dpeg: I don't think permanent allies are as advantageous as you seem to think 11:13:22 one solution for yred pets is to make them not regenerate 11:13:25 I am trying to write a review, I think the point is clear. 11:13:35 xyblor: if they cause too many problems, they'll go. 11:15:25 is there any source of tame beasts, now that the spell is gone? 11:20:16 imo 1. make recall work across levels 2. see what happens 3. nerf as required 11:23:31 imo remove felids 11:37:13 what do people think of changing zot:5 back to always having the original orb chamber, now that apportation was nerfed in a different way? 11:37:23 do it 11:37:27 I kind of like the new variety 11:38:15 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:26 MarvinPA: I would like to have at least some variants, even if only for flavour. 11:38:35 but some went overboard, and we can cut on them 11:38:47 MarvinPA: if you keep pushing me, I'll do it :) 11:38:49 I like my "which half has the orb?" thing :P 11:39:00 well at the moment there's just three possibilities, i think the really crazy ones were either never added or got removed again 11:39:01 dunno what people who actually played it thought 11:39:15 original, inset, and two_ways 11:39:28 i'm not strongly opinionated on it really, just wondered 11:39:45 i like having zot:5 variety, it just has to be really really good 11:40:08 two ways is annoying when tiamat spawns in it, I can tell you from experience 11:40:20 MarvinPA: Zot:5 is not set in stone although it seems so hard to come up with an alternative. The orb chamber vaults at least demonstrate that we're willing to shake up zot:5. 11:40:24 augh :) success! \o/ 11:41:16 I guess two_ways kind of thing would be better if the path was split earlier 11:41:20 sounds fair, i'll leave them be for now then 11:43:02 but dunno if "guessing right" is really a great mechanic :P 11:43:29 s/mechanic/challenge or whatever 11:43:57 well, the narrow passages mean that at least you're unlikely to be mobbed by loads of guardians etc even if you go the wrong way 11:44:09 Keskitalo: how's the daughter btw? 11:45:33 dpeg: Doing great and being fantastic. :) Thanks for asking 11:46:05 Keskitalo: been ill yet? 11:46:49 dpeg: Just normal baby troubles, but not really sick (yet!) 11:47:00 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:21 That's the advantage of calling her Kikubaaqudgha -- she's protected from curses. 11:47:38 I also started at a new job today, research assistant at the information technology department. Game programming actually! 11:47:54 left university? 11:48:01 No, still studying as well 11:48:15 It's a half-day job (if you can say that in English) 11:48:47 dpeg: "Kiku" just might work as a first name actually.. 11:49:09 It makes perfect sense in German, at least. We shouldn't let the follies of the English language cloud our conservation. 11:49:14 But it's not a very pretty name. 11:49:19 * dpeg needs more children 11:49:23 hehe 11:49:25 27 perhaps? 11:49:31 :) 11:51:56 Keskitalo: game programming in university? awesome :O 11:58:49 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:15 Keskitalo: in english it's part-time 12:12:28 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:03 Eronarn: yeah, I'm quite happy with the job :) 12:18:12 casmith789: thanks 12:19:24 interface idea: how about displaying the target's resistances, when it's relevant to the spell you're casting/missile you're firing? 12:19:33 would be nice 12:19:33 TGWi: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:19:37 i.e. fire resistance when using fire conjurations, MR when using hexes 12:23:03 yeah, that'd be good 12:23:16 another thing that just came up in crawl that'd be nice: MR items having +'s next to them to indicate degree of +MR 12:23:29 since different 'MR' items give different amounts (same with stealth items) 12:25:52 ideally you could tell what the stealth bonus is by looking at the description/inscription 12:26:16 one item being secretly better than another is kind of strange 12:26:40 it should just be 2 or 3 levels of different possible MR/stealth boosts 12:26:56 MR MR+ MR++ or whatever 12:27:32 yes, sounds fine to me 12:33:49 I never even realized there were different levels. 12:35:43 four winds should keep its ridic mr though 12:35:52 assuming that's more than randarts get? 12:37:11 -!- bf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:37:48 i think MR ranges from 20 to 90? 12:38:47 added the relevant resistances thing to the wiki 12:47:36 (ps, partial resistances <3) 12:48:01 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:20 03MarvinPA * rd0ed2caa4ea4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Get rid of descriptions for more removed spells 12:52:31 03MarvinPA * ra5fbdc77bbe5 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Foxfire card: add vampire mosquitoes, tweak hostility chances 12:52:32 03MarvinPA * r1d5cf380667a 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Let the Herd card summon a few more types of animal 12:52:33 03MarvinPA * re671c982b8ce 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Update Kiku corpse invocation description 12:52:37 03MarvinPA * r09c9c89164cd 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Make Pentagram and Foxfire a little rarer in decks of summoning 12:54:08 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:44 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: bye] 13:03:56 MarvinPA: nerf eels while you're at it, kthx 13:06:37 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:54 don't nerf eels, just remove that stupid layout 13:16:16 TGWi: their stupid high acc, i mean 13:17:08 nerf eels: go away power gamer 13:17:21 fix the layout: hmm maybe 13:19:34 the layout sucks yes 13:20:10 -!- Moriasc has left ##crawl-dev 13:21:49 what stupid layout? 13:22:16 open-level-with-puddles-of-eels-everywhere 13:23:16 would this work as water levels: 13:23:39 take a layout; pick a spot; flood fill with shallow water 13:23:58 that would be better imo 13:26:13 builder_basic levels can get pools too 13:26:21 that big room layout is rather boring, yes 13:30:23 I have one with a river and Nikola, it's kind of ok as Nikola makes me skip it :P 13:31:48 the river levels are cool 13:32:03 well the river is nice 13:32:28 ah well, i don't really mind the pool levels even though they aren't the best 13:32:32 and eels rocj :P 13:32:37 rock i mean 13:35:45 -!- GreyKnight has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:04 add bridges to crawl 13:36:06 and chaos piranhas 13:36:23 anglerfish 13:36:26 and ice bridges 13:36:28 not just any bridges; drawbridges which you must play a musical passcode for 13:36:38 and if you stand in the wrong spot you die! No moral. 13:37:12 TGWi: anglerfish with mimics as their lures 13:37:21 disturbance mimics!! 13:37:37 they look like a monster hiding in the water but they're actually a monster hiding as a monster hiding in the water 13:38:05 very meta 13:43:50 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:31 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:33 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:25 someone go fix dispersal working on statues 14:02:27 thanks in advance 14:03:19 Keskitalo: so you will love air mages I just added :p 14:03:24 @??spriggan air mage 14:03:25 spriggan air mage (11i) | Speed: 16 | HD: 14 | Health: 32-50 | AC/EV: 1/25 | Damage: 16 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(130), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1464 | Sp: airstrike (0-38), b.lightning (3d19), swiftness, shock (d16), haste. 14:05:04 no chain lightning but with druids and meleers around, I hope they're zappy enough :p 14:07:21 kilobyte: merge in swarms and give them spark spray :3 14:08:31 spark spray? 14:09:48 it's not fully implemented, but it's intended to be a cone spray of clouds of sparks, which move around as if confused, but are "sticky" to metal-using opponents 14:10:07 -!- OG17 has quit [Quit: OG17] 14:10:13 <3 14:11:34 (also, imo, steal tome's lightning charge spell and give that to air mages instead of haste. they turn into lightning and then get like 5x movement speed, ending when they do anything but move) 14:12:11 sounds like fun 14:13:05 03dolorous * r2e4a09e25307 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Add formatting fixes. 14:14:26 would be nice if they did anything but cast 14:15:22 Sounds like a nice ability for a melee god (of course, ey shouldn't let you flee with it, only catch up ranged opponents) 14:15:24 right now they don't even get a weapon... which is something questionable since deep elf conjurers/annihilators/demonicallersummonerpriests do 14:16:10 kilobyte: maybe some of those should not bother with weapons? 14:16:31 casters should be going for spells primarily imo 14:19:23 good idea, but not supported by current monster AI 14:20:01 kilobyte: a "nerd" flag, kind of like "priest" exists? for things which are so spellcaster-y that they should focus on doing that instead of making melee attacks 14:20:06 ok, "monster AI" is pretty much non-existant 14:21:08 I support nerd flag 14:21:12 especially if it's called that 14:21:43 "spellcaster", "fighter", "priest", "nerd". The four classic D&D classes. 14:21:47 all monsters do the same: every turn, roll a die whether to cast, if you rolled "don't cast", roll for ranged attacks, if not, step closer and hit the player 14:22:12 yes, I read through the AI code. it's not great, but it's a manageable starting point 14:22:19 the 'hard work' is mostly already done 14:22:47 there's lots of space to customize it, if we wanted to go down that route (e.g., the patch I submitted for no-iood-in-cc) 14:25:58 having monsters track MP/piety would be a nice thing, at some point, also 14:26:15 (at least for some kinds of monsters, perhaps. others, it makes sense for them to be unlimited) 14:27:16 making monsters deplete their MP and then just be boring is boring 14:28:01 TGWi: on the other hand, getting smited 6 times in a row sucks 14:28:04 breath timer for monsters is needed though 14:28:06 no iood is not a good idea, 40-50ish damage that can't be dodged is a good use for a turn 14:28:32 does monster iood not take time to power up 14:28:38 or not have the inaccuracy or something 14:28:47 (the inaccuracy is unnecessary and should go btw) 14:28:49 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:38 it does, but guaranteed 45 is not that much worse than 90 the player is likely to blink/sidestep/hide from 14:30:09 -!- Moriasc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:10 -!- Moriasc_ is now known as Moriasc 14:30:42 my suggestion for IOOD: it can miss, and will make a very low acc attack against things it's not trying to hit, and a high acc one against things it is 14:30:56 i think this will make it far more fun to actually use 14:31:10 as it will e.g. loop back around to hit things it flew past originally 14:33:19 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:11 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:34:12 accuracy makes sense for maneuverable things... IOOD is as agile as a ten ton boulder, its turn radius is so huge any close-range aiming is negligible 14:34:47 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:56 however, if we copy that missile swarm idea from Linley... 14:36:21 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:34 really, the problem i have with it is it hitting rats and stuff 14:36:41 i've tried using the spell and it's just very unimpressive 14:37:33 the gimmick is at its coolest, right now, when there are only you and the iood-casting statue on screen 14:38:19 (i do want a missile swarm, though: for orbs of fire (they summon baby orbs that zoom over at you)) 14:38:50 but imo it's a mistake to treat projectiles as taking up a square 14:39:33 (and doing it this way also leads to problems like: Dispersal affecting IOODs) 14:41:46 dispersal the spell? 14:47:45 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:47 swarm of iskenderun's orb 14:58:29 kilobyte: yes, i believe 14:58:32