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Constantly. 04:39:44 galehar: Vaults parse / as a special character 04:39:44 :) 04:39:52 I think (greensnark will correct) 04:40:23 options: have [fire^earth] and replace all ^s with /s 04:40:44 a dirty hack but easier than overhauling the whole syntax 04:40:52 The C++ item-name-parsing code does the split-on-/ thing, yeah 04:41:06 vaults syntax have no mean of escaping special char? 04:41:09 \/ might be good too, if we want a generic solution 04:41:16 I suggest fire+earth 04:41:21 fire+earth works. 04:41:33 galehar: you could code one, if you wanted 04:41:36 :) 04:41:40 Unless the intention is to say Fire OR Earth 04:43:42 also, is there any plan to nerf tornado? I keep hearing about its overpoweredness (<- I'm pretty sure it isn't a real word). 04:43:45 So I've been requesting copies of my old relieving letters from my past jobs, because, I, uh, have lost my employment history file 04:43:54 And that is so much like pulling teeth from wild horses 04:44:23 "You want WHAT?! Are you out of your mind?" seems to be the standard reaction, and I am most vexed and pissed off :) 04:45:11 galehar: not really, it does far less damage than firestorm and has smaller range. A good deal more mp efficient, though. 04:45:14 due: Tukima's Ball, eh :P 04:45:27 due: Didn't you mean Tukima's Megaball? :( 04:45:33 :p 04:45:36 greensnark: I was complaining to my scrabble friends about "megabat" not being in the scrabble dictionary. 04:45:41 Hehe 04:45:59 I'm never going to let you forget megabat, btw 04:46:13 I shall still be annoying you with it 50 years from now 04:46:20 (sorry) :P 04:46:23 "Annoy"? I think it's an awesome name. 04:46:29 I am glad that you agree :D 04:46:32 :D 04:46:50 sadly, there are only mega, micro and giga bats... No tera or kilo bats are obvious, but I was surprised by not finding any mili. 04:47:05 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:46 I love the megabat size entries 04:48:32 * kilobyte needs to finish http://sprunge.us/iKKi 04:48:42 Haha 04:48:52 Do you think you can sneak that past dpeg, though 04:48:54 @??vampire bat 04:48:54 vampire bat (14b) | Speed: 30 | HD: 3 | Health: 6-15 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Damage: 313(drain) | Flags: evil, sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(4) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 55. 04:49:01 since when do we have vampire bats? 04:49:03 oh 04:49:08 they're placeholders, right 04:49:49 dpeg always wanted player bats to have to move in batty patterns 04:50:02 they're there only to make vampire's bat form work, since transformation glyphs now rely on actual monster entries 04:50:24 (in order to use the existing scheme for redefining things) 04:50:46 not a single vault uses them, too 04:51:14 We need a megabat megavault, your vault is too small 04:51:23 Unless of course, megavaults are smaller than microvaults (sometimes) 04:51:28 greensnark: megabat megaportal megavault :D 04:51:28 dark gray is a no-no except for the player's glyph, so this might have to change 04:51:33 greensnark: <3 04:51:35 -!- due is now known as megadue 04:52:01 i feel like making valuts 04:52:13 Make megavaults containing megadeth! 04:52:14 -!- kilobyte is now known as terabyte 04:52:17 vampire bat monster seems strange, shouldn't it have a vampiric attack? 04:52:46 evilmike: You mean a megavampiric attack 04:52:56 An easy mistake to make, but you really should get these things right 04:53:00 evilmike: it was never meant to be an actual monster 04:53:05 fair enough 04:53:15 terabyte: Still, worth fixing, I think 04:54:18 there are a few things not working right... 1. multiple redefined monsters revert to the base name on the monster pane, 2. corpses are ok but chunks use the base name, 3. you can't rename skeletons 04:54:22 -!- terabyte is now known as kilobyte 04:54:30 -!- megadue is now known as due 04:54:36 There was a Disney animated movie based on the Sword in the Stone where Arthur and Merlin turn into various animals 04:54:49 wasn't that based on the once and future king? 04:54:55 And every time they turn into an animal, there's a a real animal of the opposite sex around and hilarity results 04:55:01 Something similar needed for Crawl 04:55:04 evilmike: Yep 04:55:40 oh I see, the sword and the stone is the first book 04:57:34 so when you use Dragon Form, a female dragon should appear? 04:57:39 kilobyte: No 04:57:48 But any other dragons you run into may be unaccountably attracted to you! 04:57:57 Crawl monsters are happily genderless 04:58:05 So we don't have to worry about preferences 04:58:11 Just kidding :P 04:58:25 Crawl 1.0 (Megadragon megasex edition) 04:58:40 no 04:58:48 Megaedition? I stand corrected 04:58:49 MegaCrawl* MegaEdition* 04:58:54 Oh, damn 04:58:58 :p 05:00:28 you mean, we can't get foocubi? :( 05:01:04 We can get foocubi, but they have to be named "foocubus" 05:01:13 i.e. no incubi and succubi 05:01:38 And packs of foocubi will naturally have a megafoocubus leader 05:02:33 "happily genderless" I think the animals would disagree :) 05:02:50 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:56 strictly speaking, we'd need "gender-appropriate foocubi" and "gender-inappropriate foocubi", since normal males and lesbians have the same preferences, and the other way around 05:03:14 but there might be problems with a- and bisexuals 05:03:30 ah, just use an option 05:03:30 The "foo" is metasyntactic and subsumes all these variants 05:03:37 SEX=none 05:03:57 and for people who eschew binary gender? 05:04:02 greensnark: oh, I started a new book the other day 05:04:07 greensnark: so far it is actually quite good 05:04:22 What's its meganame? 05:04:32 but then, a monster who forces her/himself upon you doesn't need to care about _your_ preferences 05:04:39 greensnark: http://www.amazon.com/Last-Stormlord-Glenda-Larke/dp/0316069159 05:04:40 crawl clearly needs spivak pronouns 05:04:49 Oh no, I had Spivak 05:04:51 *hate 05:04:58 It always makes me feel like I'm typoing 05:05:09 greensnark: I'm only three or so chapters in, but so far it is quite excellent. 05:05:10 * greensnark prefers singular they. 05:05:24 Although that makes me feel my grammar is broken, that's fine, since my grammar is often broken :P 05:05:38 due: Aha, I'd heard of Larke but I had no idea if she was good 05:05:57 I picked it up on a whim -- mostly because I don't read enough new fantasy these days. 05:05:58 due: I'll check back after you've finished the book before I pick up a copy, though :) 05:06:00 jokes about foocubi aside, no monster/player genders will be a problem if we ever get translations 05:06:26 English has gender-neutral words for about everything but pronouns, but that's pretty unique as languages go 05:06:46 kilobyte: Anyone serious about working on translations? 05:06:59 Hm, I wonder if you can have υεςν... 05:07:36 not currently, although there are proposals how to handle them 05:07:52 Translation sounds like a megaton of work :) 05:07:58 Megatranslation? 05:08:03 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:St_Denis,_plan_and_elevation_of_Valois_chapel.jpg 05:08:06 Or that :) 05:08:09 I am making a vault based on this. 05:08:16 it has bats 05:08:23 due: Nice 05:08:46 due: An altar in the middle too? 05:08:49 due: including the bat types I proposed? 05:09:08 if so, lemme fix the issues... they should be easy 05:10:04 kilobyte: Dunno, not decided yet. 05:10:07 greensnark: yes, of course. 05:10:10 kilobyte: depends on the language. in German it's only a problem for names where you don't have a grammatical gender and therefore have to fall back to the sex. for other nouns you can mostly just use the grammatical gender. 05:12:01 due: Actually I like megabats so much I used one as my gravatar: http://en.gravatar.com/greensnark 05:12:07 for most monster types, Polish does have grammatical gender too... so using all-male grammar for "orc" shouldn't be an issue 05:12:07 The only problem I have with "megabat" is the name :P 05:12:16 referring to the player might be worse, though 05:12:26 "Why, how pixelised you are!" 05:12:31 Yeah :( 05:12:46 Retro look, though P 05:12:54 I love that bat picture 05:13:05 Most adorable bat in existence 05:13:42 kilobyte: but polish also have the animate/inanimate classification. are objects as monster "animate" in that sense? 05:14:28 DemonSpawn Hunter Crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3482) by Scynonymz 05:14:56 sigh 05:15:03 I need to code a vault editor 05:15:05 it does? Not really... the only such classification I know of is the male-person / non-male-person plural gender. 05:15:06 that lets you scale 05:15:41 with "person" defined as a human role with a few animals thrown in 05:16:11 A vault editor that's built into the game and works with tiles 05:16:16 100 women use one grammatic gender, but 100 women 1 dog move to the other 05:16:28 due: Do it, we'll get a lot more vault submissions 05:16:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language#Nouns_and_adjectives gender (masculine, feminine, neuter), personhood (personal versus non-personal) and animacy (animate versus inanimate) 05:16:36 greensnark: hmmm 05:16:42 due: Bit of work, though :) 05:16:47 greensnark: but fun though :) 05:16:56 greensnark: it would require learning how to draw tiles interfaces first :) 05:17:09 Yep, just hang it off the main menu and that'll really lower the barrier to vault design 05:17:09 But you could have a grid with drag-and-drop functionality 05:17:20 I really like that idea. 05:17:26 :D 05:17:38 * due puts it on todo list 05:17:53 For the Lua stuff you'd still have to edit the .des, presumably, but it's a lot less intimidating to look at the text file once the skeleton is in place 05:17:58 a vault editor would also have to have easy playtesting features (placing stuff with &L is a bit tedious) 05:18:14 evilmike: Yep, it could do all that! 05:18:21 It could check monster names immediately, etc. 05:18:50 yes 05:18:57 it would be a pure 'initial' generator. 05:19:05 ie you specify a size and can drag and drop stuff onto it 05:19:10 although the animate/inanimate could easily be tackled with a large list. it's just inflection after all and not really different than "normal" inflection 05:19:13 monsters, features, whatever 05:19:19 bhaak: that table is different than what I was taught in school... but then, trying to shoehorn Polish declination into rules is quite a losing proposition. It's about as regular as English pronounciation :( 05:19:26 due: Plus rotate, scale, etc. 05:19:57 the main difficulty I have with vaults is it's hard to visualize what an ascii vault will look like in tiles (something narrow in ascii can be really wide in tiles) 05:20:07 for a while I looked for a square font I could edit with, but no luck there 05:20:12 evilmike: Tiles are square, ASCII is not. 05:20:15 evilmike: Yeah, most fonts are half as wide as they're tall 05:20:18 Yeah. 05:20:21 ie 05:20:34 this lovely circle I have just designed 05:20:37 will loook shit in tiles 05:20:42 http://sprunge.us/hYPS 05:20:42 kilobyte: I hear that a lot about slavic languages :) maybe due to the large number of dialects and the large number of cases 05:20:43 too bad, most of our vaults use SUBST: and SHUFFLE: heavily, you can't do that in a gui editor 05:22:02 Well, they can do the layout, and the editor could show the results of the SUBST/SHUFFLE interactively 05:22:04 due: doesn't look too circley, more like a 12-gon 05:22:23 It's just that most of our players seem to be text-phobic :) 05:22:38 Someone in the tavern complained about having to read the vault docs in Notepad :P 05:22:46 kilobyte: We can't have circles ;) 05:22:53 Hard to imagine that person then using Notepad to design the vault :) 05:23:01 greensnark, reading it in notepad is okay if you're using a monospace font... 05:23:04 greensnark: understandable. notepad is an inferior e-book reader 05:23:24 notepad is a pile of garbage :) 05:23:25 uhm, Windows' notepad is useless for anything 05:23:47 I had to write C in notepad on occasion 05:23:51 Have they fixed that thing where it freaks out if it sees LF-only line endings yet 05:23:58 on a keyboard that lacked some of the keys 05:24:04 speaking of vaults, Iwas thinking of making more abyss vaults (regular minivaults this time and maybe a few more rune vaults)... are more of these still needed? 05:24:04 nope, and never will. that's documetned somewhere 05:24:20 especially regular minivaults (the abyss can already uses some regular minivaults) 05:24:44 evilmike: More sounds like fun, but this time you should really adjust the dummy chances too :) 05:24:50 evilmike, needed or not, they're always welcome. We can always make them more rare if that's needed. 05:24:54 If you don't do it, whoever commits the vaults definitely won't either :P 05:24:58 I'll leave that to dpeg or whoever to adjust dummy chances 05:25:04 They won't 05:25:07 Unless you do 05:25:11 evilmike, everybody leaves it to somebody else :P 05:25:21 Exactly 05:25:26 and then the game gets released with a figurative megabat in it 05:25:42 dpeg makes randomization changes, etc., but he doesn't have the time to check that the vault generation chances are too rare/common 05:25:52 and everybody starts going like, "oops, how come that was left in? How did it get there in the first place?" 05:26:08 a;right, I'll mess around with the dummy chances then next time 05:26:18 Yay 05:26:23 did anyone look at the abyss rune vaults I made? I didn't get any feedback on them, was wondering if they were alright 05:26:37 They looked fine to me. dpeg committed them already, right? 05:26:41 Or is there a different batch? 05:27:00 I submitted 2 batches, I think he went ahead with the first one, which was all exit vaults 05:27:22 Ah, he committed 3340 05:28:09 coord_def::can_cling... awesome. 05:28:44 just why does it seem awesome to me? :P 05:29:17 Zaba: Stop being overly sarcastic and fix it :P 05:29:25 I dont need feeback right away or anything, but I think some of them might be a bit questionable (eg one uses a silly amount of chaos fog, another is a tso altar with an outpost) 05:29:44 ooh, cling overhaul! 05:29:49 nah, it's not like I think there's a better way... 05:29:51 a TSO outpost in the Abyss? Me likes! 05:30:06 Huh, it looks like that wasn't even acknowledged 05:30:10 I figure if there's an ecumenical temple in the abyss (which there is) a tso altar is acceptible 05:31:01 !tell dpeg When you're free, can you review the vaults in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3373 05:31:01 greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 05:31:04 There you go 05:31:09 thanks! 05:31:34 We should probably nerf kraken before that goes in, though 05:31:51 articulated_kraken should have been accompanied by a reset to kraken stats, particularly tentacles 05:31:54 @?? tentacle 05:31:54 tentacle (13w) | Speed: 17 | HD: 12 | Health: 39-58 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 29 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 12drown | XP: 0. 05:32:05 yeah 0.8 krakens are pretty scary 05:32:07 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:08 I love how they reach out though 05:32:16 I love them scary 05:32:29 maybe they should be scary 05:32:31 Oh, they're good then :) 05:32:41 I just haven't met them in a real game, but if they're ok, that's great 05:32:45 it's not too bad fighting them, you just need to make sure you only fight the tip of the tentacle 05:32:49 need to have variety among scary things 05:32:51 http://sprunge.us/QhWB 05:32:53 omg so pretty 05:32:54 getting in close is suicidal 05:33:03 due: So small? 05:33:06 due, really? 05:33:28 How many entrances will it have 05:33:40 Zaba: what's wrong with it? 05:33:42 greensnark: small is good 05:33:46 10 entrances? 05:33:49 Less/more? 05:33:55 not sure yet 05:33:57 going to ruin it 05:33:59 is that a temple layout? 05:34:21 due, nothing wrong, but nothing exceptionally pretty either ;P 05:34:54 not happy with the stnadard axes 05:34:59 but the cardinals are nice 05:35:03 now, if it was centrally symmetric... :P 05:40:03 http://sprunge.us/TCAN 05:40:14 I am happy with the rooms with doors 05:42:51 but not the other ones 05:42:55 am i the only person who thinks of encounters and then plugs them into some layout, rather than making a layout and then coming up with encounters for it :P 05:42:55 Mu_: i think so 05:42:55 the greensnarking! moin :) 05:42:55 I do that too 05:42:55 layouts are everything for me 05:42:55 like "It would be cool to fight x" and then "hmm now where to put it" 05:43:19 Napking! 05:43:23 !coffee Napkin 05:43:24 * Henzell hands Napkin a cup of cappuccino, brewed by Makhleb. 05:43:42 greensnark: i am going to implement eronarn's evil-human-sacrificing-sirens :D 05:44:06 good idea! out for coffee :D 05:44:53 http://sprunge.us/CcTR 05:46:44 Human-sarificing sirens? Sounds nice 05:46:59 Napkin: I just had some great coffee 05:47:06 My brain is finally awake! 05:47:12 And it's only 5pm 05:48:30 :/ 05:48:38 this news is horrendous 05:52:12 greensnark: on Macs, how do you install the headers? Our docs claim that installing XCode is enough, but neither sqlite nor SDL build with them. 05:53:05 kilobyte: You have to install 10.4 SDK when installing Xcode, it's not installed by default 05:53:17 If you don't install it, you have to tell the makefile to use the 10.5 sdk instead 05:53:36 make SDK_VER=10.5 05:54:13 thanks! 05:54:31 The makefile is being very naughty with the hardcoded SDK versions, but that's nothing new :P 05:54:38 yeah :( 05:55:09 The thing is, if you don't force the SDK the system will use the current SDK; I'm not sure why the makefile wants to force the SDK at all 05:56:15 XCode 3.2.3 as 3.2.5 requires the system to be updated which stops hackintosh from booting on AMD, but I guess it should have 10.5 05:56:29 can't check it right now, got that installed at home 05:56:38 Yeah, it'll have the 10.5 SDK 05:56:52 i need an odd monster set fo rthis map 05:57:00 There's an irritatingly obscure advanced settings dialog where you have to enable 10.4 install if you want it 05:57:07 deep dwarsfs? no... 05:57:41 Giants? Hmmm. 05:57:53 due: I thought that was a bat map 05:58:09 gnome name:pajama n_adj 05:58:55 greensnark: hm, true. 06:00:19 damn it, i don't have a recent trunk build 06:00:52 same here, greensnark :) 06:04:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:16 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:12:49 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/worldhaveyoursay/collapsednz.jpg 06:18:17 03galehar * r1eef3a1eef34 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/variable/altar.des itemname.cc): Fix book of conjurations name breaking vaults. 06:21:24 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:12 galehar: We should probably move the can_cling_to and friends out of coord_def to someplace more dungeon-y 06:29:33 greensnark: Hi! 06:29:33 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:29:36 !messages 06:29:37 (1/1) greensnark said (58m 35s ago): When you're free, can you review the vaults in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3373 06:29:39 coord_def is really an abstract coordinate, so it shouldn't be tied to dungeon checks 06:29:42 dpeg! 06:29:47 greensnark: the big ones? 06:29:57 Did three sets last week, there's one batch left iirc. 06:30:07 dpeg: They're a bunch of abyss rune vaults, looks like nobody noticed them on the tracker 06:30:13 evilmike's rune vaults for abyss 06:30:18 Those are in! 06:30:24 oh the rune vaults are in? 06:30:25 He had two sets of vaults 06:30:29 oh wait, I did evilmike's other abyss vaults 06:30:30 You committed one set 06:30:35 thanks for notice, will do 06:31:29 When's 0.8 release? :) 06:31:47 I've been waiting for you to show up so I could ask that :D 06:32:45 oh my 06:32:58 a reason to not hurry too much: these days, most good players have a strong preference towards trunk. If stable lacks a good portion of new goodies, less people will play during the tourney. 06:33:23 kilobyte: usually, there's another release close to the tournament 06:33:46 greensnark: still hoping for March, but I don't have enough time to properly push the thing :( 06:33:55 March looks tightish now, yes 06:34:10 so you propose 0.8 in march and 0.9 in july? Not sure if that makes a lot of sense. 06:34:16 03galehar * r5569c5117762 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg-dgn.cc: Fix a crash when clicking on a monster unarmed. 06:34:31 I don't think we shoul delay 0.8 too much though, regular release discipline is good 06:34:38 Maybe slot it for April and get serious about it 06:34:41 April 1 maybe 06:35:02 greensnark: if you're releasing it on april 1 release it as "nethack 3.5.0" 06:35:16 casmith789: I'm not going to be participating in the release, too much work :P 06:35:36 The NH devteam should totally do an April 1 release 06:35:53 greensnark: do you know the Resurrection spell already? 06:36:04 Heh 06:36:10 I bet Pat Rankin is still alive 06:36:17 Or should I say undead 06:36:33 He just has to make a cute release announcement and update the version numbers in the source files 06:36:44 there's no reason for that discipline, though... no paying customers, no major Linux/BSD distribution has a feature freeze during that time, people can play trunk on CDO or at home just as well 06:36:48 he he 06:37:11 (I mean, can play now while it's still lacking polish) 06:37:15 kilobyte: Well, long release cycles => low incentive to actually fix bugs 06:37:24 but greensnark is right: it is good for the whole project to release regularly 06:37:53 I'm not saying short release cycles will cure the problem entirely, but trunk seems to have an endless array of bugs and balance issues that there's little incentive to fix :P 06:38:01 too bad we don't suffer badly from code bugs right now (as opposed to, say, the time before 0.7), but there's a lot of balance issues left 06:38:38 One of the GIMP devs wrote a post on why GIMP release dates are slipping 06:38:43 ench split being probably the worst one 06:38:49 http://www.chromecode.com/2011/02/why-gimp-28-is-not-released-yet.html 06:38:53 ^^ Worth a read 06:39:00 later, work now 06:40:23 dpeg: bye! 06:44:36 how would short release cycles help at all? you already have players playing trunk, I guess most bugs are fixed because of input from those games or because of failing asserts 06:45:54 ofc, if you wait too long, you must do an bugfix release like 0.7.2 :) 06:46:22 bhaak: The problem is that bugs... aren't fixed unless they're crashes 06:46:38 0.7.2 was a pathetic failure, a good example why our stable releases are bad 06:46:44 greensnark: and short cycles would help with that? 06:46:51 I'd have greatly preferred a 0.8 release to a 0.7.2, yes 06:47:14 bhaak: Well, a release with a release manager can a) stop the entry of new bugs b) triage and identify bugs to be fixed 06:47:22 There's zero triage going on at the moment 06:47:39 we had 0.7.1 with just a single bugfix, fixed a heap of crashes in the next several days, and then that heap rotted while poor saps actually playing the "latest release" suffered 06:47:40 And a constant stream of new bugs entering with the new code 06:48:06 I'll admit I dropped the ball on 0.7; I should have release 0.7.2, but life interevened 06:48:20 so if playing a release means you don't get either new features nor new fixes, you might just play trunk 06:48:46 I don't buy that argument... you're saying "Because we're sloppy users should just suffer" 06:48:50 yes, if you don't do a nominal code-freeze and let players test-play a stable release candidate, that's a problem 06:48:52 I think we should try to fix the sloppiness 06:49:13 as in, actually maintain stable? 06:49:37 kilobyte: Well, make stable releases with backported bugfixes for serious bugs, yes 06:49:48 I'll admit the 0.7 stable release rot was my fault 06:50:03 I did not have the time to be the release manager for 0.7 and it suffered as a result 06:50:12 or release 0.8 so trunk and stable aren't that far apart, so backporting gets easier 06:50:15 But we shouldn't be just ditching the idea of stable releases as a consequence 06:50:32 you had no time so you can't be blamed... it's those of us who were active who should have paid a bit of attention 06:51:34 Well, I'm not blaming anyone, but I do think there's a lot of value in a distinct phase of: branch a stable branch, spend time fixing issues in the stable branch 06:51:38 at some point stop adding features and just add bugfixes. then release the bugfixed tested version 06:51:42 greensnark: I should do a release, too. the current released version still suffers badly from the long worm crashes :) 06:51:43 greensnark: right, stable releases mean "all features included in this release had at least some testing" 06:52:03 bhaak: So you finally got rid of long worms?! Great! 06:52:10 :) 06:52:10 bhaak: is that a backportable fix? 06:52:46 greensnark: no, I fixed it :) 06:53:03 bhaak: You mean you slapped a bandaid on the bleeding stump that is long worms? :P 06:53:20 kilobyte: vanilla doesn't suffer from that bug. spork also did but paxed or lor removed long worms as a quick-fix 06:53:29 Go paxed 06:53:41 I totally approve of that fix, I don't really think long worms add anything 06:54:02 They're pathetically slow pushovers added just for a lame gimmick 06:54:20 greensnark: it wasn't actually a problem with long worms but with level flipping. the long worms got flipped but the tail segments didn't 06:54:36 bhaak: I think I remember that discussion, yes :) 06:54:54 But I still think the whole worm tail thing is useless dreck 06:55:38 kilobyte: but on bilious there are some vanilla crash fixes including one from me that fixes crashes when long worms splt 06:55:42 And what's more, it's dreck that reaches out and pollutes a whole bunch of other code from what I recall 06:55:50 Just kill long worms, your game will be better for it 06:55:52 :) 06:57:28 greensnark: maybe, but they don't hurt much as long as they don't cause crashes :) and I wouldn't have been able to live happily if I had to resort to the cheap solution. I want the right solution! 06:57:48 The right solution is to get rid of a whole bunch of crap code that exists solely to manipulate frickin long worm tails 06:57:57 heck, we got a long worm type monster... krakens and eldritch tentacles. Both are a maintenance burden bigger than regular monsters. 06:58:13 kilobyte: Yes, I know :) 06:58:47 But at least kraken are semi-cool -- long worms are junk 06:59:00 :) 06:59:07 Whoever coded long worms was thinking "LOL snake game in NH" 06:59:21 If they were thinking at all 06:59:49 long worms are too short 07:00:00 let's add a long worm _player_ race to Crawl :p 07:00:08 That's already in bad_ideas :P 07:00:25 a good deal of bad_ideas have been implemented 07:01:25