00:02:46 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:06 -!- Moriasc has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 00:23:12 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:50 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:00 !tell galehar since temporary stat boosts exist now (heroism), crosstraining should be in a different colour; currently it says "cross training is in blue" which is confusing when every skill is in blue 00:51:00 TGWi: OK, I'll let galehar know. 00:52:36 temporary stat boosts exist now?! 00:52:44 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:28 heroism 00:55:35 you definitely already know about this 00:57:42 'stat' boosts 00:57:57 Skill boosts 00:58:16 !tell galehar s/stat/skill/ 00:58:16 TGWi: OK, I'll let galehar know. 00:58:21 thanks 00:58:31 wouldn't want him having to use context 01:16:56 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:56 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:16:57 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 01:17:49 -!- Guest38466 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:06 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:34 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest39600 01:26:51 flashvoid (L10 SpTm) (D:9) 01:27:10 hi 01:34:06 So um Tukima 01:36:51 yes, it's broken 01:37:24 I'll fix it tonight once I finish work 01:52:57 -!- due has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:57:31 Cool! 02:38:14 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:30 hi 02:38:30 galehar: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 02:38:33 !messages 02:38:34 (1/2) TGWi said (1h 47m 34s ago): since temporary stat boosts exist now (heroism), crosstraining should be in a different colour; currently it says "cross training is in blue" which is confusing when every skill is in blue 02:38:50 !messages 02:38:50 (1/1) TGWi said (1h 40m 34s ago): s/stat/skill/ 02:40:23 kilobyte: Hi. And thanks for reverting my screw up and fixing CDO. 02:43:57 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:44:00 galehar: sorry for not fixing it myself, but I was afraid of conflicting with something you possibly are in progress of doing 02:44:36 well, you're right. It's actually not finished :) 02:46:36 TGWi: I was unsure what colour to use, lightblue is only tentative -- I picked it because 1. stat boosts are shown this way, 2. you can never have Heroism and Transfer Knowledge on at the same time 02:49:37 transfer knowledge colour is green 02:49:46 crosstraining is blue 02:49:54 but it can be switched 02:51:21 how does transfer knowledge w/ crosstraining resolve? 02:55:24 what do you mean? I've just said they are different colours. 02:57:03 TGWi: cross-training is shown with a +4 02:57:17 I mean if both apply, how does the colouring resolve? 03:00:01 both are green 03:05:43 flashvoid (L11 SpTm) (D:10) 03:06:30 moin 03:07:08 flashvoid (L11 SpTm) (D:10) 03:07:51 !lm flashvoid type=crash -log 03:07:52 4. flashvoid, XL11 SpTm, T:17403 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/flashvoid/crash-flashvoid-20110203-090707.txt 03:08:47 this guy didn't transfer to a fixed version 03:28:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:47 kilobyte: "meek peon" <3 03:51:00 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:10 -!- GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:04 Any of you devs online right now? 03:56:58 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:59:10 sorta 03:59:54 In the scope of playing tiles online, which I know is probably zero priority, how unrealistic is that consideration? 04:04:37 I also know many of the factors that would make it obscenel difficult, but if it were to ever happen, what sort of medium would be used to accomplish it? Just brainstorming, making chit-chat, mainly. I'm bored, I guess. 04:05:54 i think it's a long-term goal, there's a wiki page with some plans on how it could be implemented 04:05:57 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:internal:clientserver 04:06:35 there's a crude online tiles version already but it only worked for 0.6 i think, and hasn't been updated since then 04:11:24 wtf.. 04:11:36 Somebofy suggested an interesting alternative to achieve online tiles: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20101028165017.GA31631%40angband.pl&forum_name=crawl-ref-discuss 04:11:52 but nothing concrete yet 04:12:59 just. wtf. 04:13:31 03kilobyte * r5c73dde22c78 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Remove an unused function. 04:13:32 03MarvinPA * r2f23645dccb4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/help.txt: Improve G help 04:13:35 03kilobyte * rb5c807f33af2 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Crash earlier when transiting a broken monster; ass a shim for clouded's save. 04:13:43 er... "add" 04:13:44 since when does adjacent_iterator check bounds? 04:13:56 or any radius_iterator, it seems 04:14:07 apart from the LOS one 04:14:08 dammit, you're supposed to typo into invalid words, especially not into ones like this 04:14:38 what if I need an adjacent_iterator that does -not- check bounds? 04:14:54 quick, amend and push -f before anyone else pulls it 04:15:51 RjY: SF blocks -f, I'd have to delete and recreate master 04:15:55 okay, it actually seems like it's been doing that for eternity, but the second question holds. 04:16:00 which can lead to problem 04:16:36 Zaba: there's no way to know _which_ bounds you want 04:16:43 kilobyte, I want no bounds 04:16:46 easy enough :P 04:17:08 kilobyte: another reason to move the repo somewhere where you have proper control over it, then ;-) 04:18:10 RjY: with SVN it wouldn't be possible to rewrite history at all, and for a good reason 04:18:28 i know 04:18:57 being able to easily amend commits was git's killer feature for me i think 04:19:00 so it's safer to just let people know what a clumsy oaf I am -- not that it's a secret or anything 04:19:30 okay, I guess I'll have to do this the ugly way 04:20:01 amending commits is good when done at home 04:20:38 once commits go public, it's better to treat them as written in stone 04:20:57 typo in commit messages are fun. Especially because you can't fix them :) 04:21:03 not sure how many people do automatic pulls -- at least I did in SVN times to convert to git 04:24:58 kilobyte: you can rewrite history with svn on sf. you have to pull a complete copy, use svnfilter or whatever and replace the whole repository on sf. granted, not easy and not quick, but possible 04:25:44 i wonder if sf had already been forced to let people rewrite history in a git repository because of legal issues? 04:26:54 bhaak: of course, I've done that once at work once a guy did a broken commit that, as a side effect, tripled the size of the repository 04:27:31 SVN 04:27:59 for SF, they allow deleting branches 04:28:14 it never even occurred to me that you could mean that the repository was GIT :) 04:29:11 completely erasing branches? not only "svn rm "? 04:36:13 svn rm doesn't erase history 04:36:58 yes, that's why I'm surprised :) 04:37:44 I just looked again and I saw nothing besides completely obliterating the repository or using the standard subversion dumpfilter approach 04:46:49 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:19 03kilobyte * rb0a008971332 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.cc transform.cc): Allow kenku to land/liftoff while in lich form. 05:02:22 03MarvinPA * r4be90b3bcb00 10/crawl-ref/source/ (art-data.txt player.cc): Maxwell's Patent Armour of preservation 05:07:02 03zaba * r91247bc5525a 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Use _map_feat_is_on_edge to determine whether a @, + or = is an exit point of a vault. 05:07:04 03zaba * r70bffae78307 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: docs/develop/levels: Mention that + and = are considered entry points. 05:07:21 this shouldn't break anything, but it might. 05:08:05 or well.. it might break something that was already on the verge of being broken. 05:16:35 -!- Gnash has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:39 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:57 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:57 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 05:19:57 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:19 oh ffs 05:21:09 -!- Gnash has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:36 okay 05:24:26 KILL_RESET split! 05:24:40 I'm going to add KILL_BANISHEd, KILL_TIMEOUT and KILL_UNSUMMONED. 05:24:52 Let's hit this annoying piece of trash on the head once and for all! 05:25:01 gogogo~~ 05:25:36 Having to check for multiple killers is saner than only having to check for one but not know exactly *which* one it is. 05:27:16 "this order is CRITICAL, don't mess with it!" 05:27:17 "lol". 05:27:21 anyway, shower while recompile! 05:38:40 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:51 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:40:42 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:42 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:42:17 moin dpeg 05:43:11 Hi 05:43:11 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 05:43:21 Zaba: thanks for the vaults stuff 05:46:44 !messages 05:46:44 (1/2) due said (11h 44m 48s ago): Yes, I've heard there's some disagreement about conjurations. This is fine; the document can be changed as needed. 05:46:49 !messages 05:46:49 (1/1) Eronarn said (5h 12m 51s ago): < NyaaKitty> For the low cost of 4 Conj, I got 12 Fighting. >.> 05:48:43 I get tired of explaining that the core problem is something different. 05:50:50 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:23 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:40 03zaba * r898547967407 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Eliminate unnecessary mini_floats. 05:55:42 03zaba * r4925e8c7290d 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: _map_feat_is_on_edge: Don't consider cells that aren't in the map as edge ones. 05:56:07 okay.. now it looks like only the vaults that actually *need* mini_float have it 05:56:12 which is good 05:56:22 hooray 05:56:44 03galehar * ra12c5a35d6c2 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Switch the colours of cross-training and transfer knowledge. 05:56:47 03galehar * r54bc2e4c5c81 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-clouds.cc: Fix casting cloud spells out of range. 05:57:00 also, look out for vault connectivity breakages. 05:57:24 what I mean is, if you notice a vault that is either fully or partially disconnected, tell me :P 05:57:58 Zaba: awesome! 05:58:12 hi 05:58:15 Hi 05:58:23 dpeg: what's the issuew ith conjurations anyway? 05:59:00 due: as I see it, "conjuring stuff" doesn't do it justice. 05:59:54 ah 06:01:40 for example, I like the idea of moving the cloud spells to Hex/Air/Element 06:02:36 due: but in any case, it's great to have some starting point about what spell schools are 06:02:37 all clouds? 06:02:39 what is hex about them? 06:02:45 poisonous and freezing clouds? 06:02:49 yes 06:03:01 elliptic: I don't care so much... to me, this is about gameplay 06:03:07 that could be done by just reflavoring the spells 06:03:15 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:15 I have great confidence in the ability to re-flavour later on as necessary. 06:03:22 reflavouring is easy 06:03:22 though I'm not sure how it's better for enchanters to be better at the spells than a conjurer 06:03:30 in this case, for the Hex school and/or the spells 06:03:40 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:46 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:51 well, making MC a hex would fit, I think 06:03:59 anyway though why is wiki discussion happening on user pages? Shouldn't that stuff be split to the actual pages? 06:04:06 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:15 OG17: yes. But minmay happens to have his own page :O 06:04:29 maybe minmay should put things where they're supposed to be 06:04:33 hexes seem so poorly defined already 06:04:43 MarvinPA: yes, but we will be able to refine 06:05:51 having brands and confusion and clouds all share a school just seems really random to me 06:05:55 I see Conjuration as "school of damaging spells, necessary for balance purposes" 06:06:01 and giving stabbers instead of conjurers easy access to freezing/poisonous clouds seems nonsensical 06:06:20 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:31 MarvinPA: what about distinction between clouds and storms? 06:06:49 clouds are damage over time 06:06:55 storms aren't, really 06:07:08 clouds are good as conjurations because they're mechanically different from other conjurations 06:07:13 and L6 vs L9 is quite a distinction too 06:07:14 clouds flood-fill, etc 06:07:19 if you want to remove conj from clouds, I'd just remove conj, leave them as double-school, and raise their levels by 1 06:07:34 elliptic: that'd be interesting, yes 06:07:41 flood-fill for hex clouds would be pretty weird, yeah 06:08:41 it makes sense if you're making more air but not if you're doing something to existing air 06:10:18 maybe that can be overlooked though, non-conj clouds are better than hex at least 06:10:20 can someone describe me the symptoms of my recent CDO breakage? What happened exactly? 06:11:41 ./crawl -name "Ussamah ibn Ladin" 06:12:00 hm, I thinkthis works! 06:12:52 kilobyte: and? 06:13:10 dpeg: putting direct damage in hexes doesn't sound good to me... it might be actually better to just remove mephitic as a stand-alone spell 06:13:19 galehar_: well, it crashes 06:13:37 i don't see what was wrong with the suggestions to just tie cloud duration to spell power 06:13:56 kilobyte: you mean even locally? 06:14:01 galehar_: yeah 06:14:20 MarvinPA: that would be good to -- just answers a different question 06:14:31 s/to/too/ 06:14:48 doesn't cloud duration already depend on spell power? 06:15:07 oh yeah sorry, confusion duration 06:15:18 yeah, lots of possible meph nerfs 06:15:31 your suggestion fixes overpoweredness of the spell, as opposed to giving one school near-monopoly on confusion effects (save for Evap and summons) 06:15:48 ok 06:15:52 (another one I like is not guaranteeing 9 squares of cloud) 06:16:01 why should one school have a monopoly on confusion effects? or are you saying it shouldn't? :P 06:18:43 03kilobyte * r3eefd2f03ee3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abyss.cc terrain.cc): Move tile info during Abyss shifts. 06:19:31 kilobyte: I don't get it. I've reverted your revert, and locally, using -name works fine. 06:19:53 galehar_: is it a DGL build? 06:20:07 no 06:20:09 okay, fixed tukimas HOPEFULLY again. 06:20:16 not being DGL might be the issue? 06:20:17 how do I make one? 06:20:27 03due * re2b04897c0ae 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc enum.h mon-stuff.cc monster.cc): New killer_types: banished, unsummoned, timeout. 06:20:32 I tried DGAMELAUNCH=y but it doesn't seem to change anything 06:20:36 make USE_DGAMELAUCNH=y 06:20:41 yes it is unclear 06:20:43 we should clear that up 06:20:46 sleepytime 06:20:53 oh yes 06:20:54 someone revert my commit if it broke stuffinsteadof fixing stuff 06:20:54 thxs 06:21:02 i'm hopeful i didn't though 06:21:12 due: nights 06:21:28 always commit before going to bed ;) 06:22:02 galehar_: of course :) 06:22:10 galehar_: i promised to fix it earlier though and got distracted with work stuff 06:22:33 yeah, work can be distracting... 06:23:13 kilobyte: I know cross training is shown with a +4, it's just that it's also shown in blue 06:23:22 and the help at the bottom says "cross training is shown in blue" 06:24:08 heroism and transfer knowledge can both use blue, and cross training can use green 06:24:13 TGWi: not anymor. I switched the colours of cross-training and reskilling. 06:24:18 :D 06:25:11 galehar_: crashes for me again, even in non-DGL 06:25:27 wtf 06:25:47 no crash for me, even in DGL... 06:26:28 no wait 06:26:28 I get it 06:30:34 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:08 dpeg: there's a patch from minced adding an unique "Tukima" which rots on Mantis. Should you decide whether to take it/reject/change, before it bitrots to death? 06:32:11 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2778 06:32:20 kilobyte: I replied :) 06:32:54 can do again here: yes, applying is gf 06:32:56 good 06:33:11 we can later (a) rename the unique if we want and (b) restrict the new spell to the new uique 06:33:21 dpeg: you did talk about changing dancing weapons to move around on a couple occasions 06:33:47 which is more than anyone of us cared since the nerf a year ago 06:34:12 kilobyte: true! But I never talked about Tukima's :) I would really, really like to see dancing weapons dance, at some point. But that's almost pure flavour and orthogonal to all other stuff. 06:34:24 right 06:34:55 I can clean up and merge the patch, but not sure what to do with the spell for players 06:35:04 just leave it in 06:35:17 we'll get reports, and then we can still decide how to react 06:35:28 need to make a note to reassess before release 06:35:38 it's easily gameable when the monster casts it (lure it away from any weapons), and even more so for the player 06:36:15 lug ten tons of weapons, drop them all and you have a summon army, replenishable with a single cast 06:37:03 yes 06:37:14 speaking of tukima, the current "nerfed" version is actually ridiculously overpowered for an ogre/troll who carries around several GSCs 06:37:18 might be best to restrict to the unique (who will come with a vault) 06:37:28 3 MP for a really strong tank 06:37:45 //TODO: add awesome disco lighting and rename the spell "Tukima's rave" 06:37:46 oh dear 06:38:06 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:11 Tukima's grave, now that'd be something 06:45:55 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:28 -!- galehar_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20101227155314]] 06:57:14 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:09:06 -!- Gnash has quit [] 07:10:08 hmm 07:23:05 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:20 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:41:26 Request for command tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3381) by jpeg 07:47:20 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:11 kilobyte: is there any reason not to swap Elyvilon's sacrifice and prayer around? 07:48:38 hm.. 07:49:07 we need a simpler way to pick random floor/wall colors in the abyss 07:49:09 I wonder what'd work 07:51:53 at the moment, the distribution is, roughly, http://sprunge.us/hfbP 07:51:55 as far as I can see 07:52:43 dpeg: none 07:53:09 dpeg: there's Zin's feeding too... should be an ability probably 07:54:15 kilobyte: I agree. Would be really cool to have both in 0.8. 07:54:43 kilobyte, maybe you have ideas on how abyss floor/wall colors could be picked? 07:55:03 at the moment, it does it through init_pandemonium 07:55:58 and the resulting distribution is roughly http://sprunge.us/hfbP, which is odd and I'm not sure whether a simpler routine should really try to imitate it 07:56:41 it could be something as simple as 'pick a random color from a static list of allowed ones with equal chance of each' 07:57:00 Zaba: in general, skewed chances are better than equal chances 07:57:17 well, then we need some logic that doesn't involve generating monster lists for pandemonium :P 07:57:22 because, well, seriously, wtf 07:57:29 like, random_choose_weighted() 07:57:40 Zaba: well, you could simply take those numbers from the list and use... 07:57:43 what kilobyte said 07:58:34 perhaps make the numbers a bit nicer, too :) 08:00:45 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:02:40 having elemental colours happen once in a blue moon is cool, but they should really be held in moderation 08:02:47 yes 08:02:48 like, say, current 0.43% chance 08:02:54 I don't think they're too often right now. 08:03:14 oh, that table only accurate for walls, by the way 08:03:14 I was referring to white=12.99% -- that could become 13% 08:03:21 dpeg - how about letting fighters start with buckler instead of shields? 08:03:22 for floor, part of 'brown' is really 'lightgrey' 08:03:29 Napkin: as choice? 08:03:54 uh.. didn't think that complicated yet.. maybe 08:03:56 Napkin: or in general? 08:04:25 Napkin: did you find the shields hampers you too much? 08:04:38 with shield it's quite difficult at the beginning, i think 08:05:19 and also nicer progression.. buckler -> shield -> large shield 08:05:28 Napkin: I don't think they need a nerf 08:05:53 "nerf"? 08:05:56 hehe 08:05:57 it's quite unlikely you'll get a real shield soon enough 08:05:58 the early shield is probably still more help than hindrance 08:06:04 Napkin wants to buff them :) 08:06:11 exactly 08:06:35 fighters can't cast spells at the start, and have no problems hitting things 08:07:11 well, that's an opinion, which I wouldn't agree to (about the "no problem hitting" part) 08:07:12 even if you find a plate by D:3, you'll have enough weapon skill to use it 08:07:24 kilobyte: buckler is clearly better than a shield though at start 08:07:39 fighters often drop shield for buckler when they find one 08:07:50 all starting weapons have a bonus to accuracy 08:08:16 invisible bonus? 08:08:28 so bucklers can be better only if you get a weapon upgrade on one of the first dlevels 08:08:31 kilobyte: seriously, people don't like shields 08:08:31 ??hand axe 08:08:31 hand axe[1/1]: A small axe designed for either hand combat or throwing. (one-handed axe; Dmg 7 Acc +3 Delay 130%) 08:08:33 ??war axe 08:08:33 war axe[1/1]: A one-handed axe. Acc: 0, Damage: 11, Delay: 160% 08:08:35 I was contemplating an actual accuracy bonus with myself 08:08:49 +1,0 -- would that matter much? 08:09:30 elliptic: but that's not static... there was a time when they raved about shields. 08:09:49 kilobyte: and for gladiators, if I start with a trident then I unwear the shield even without a buckler 08:09:52 well, just wanted to bring that up. i'm just saying, it felt very uncomfy to be so slow with the hand axe and often not being able to hit because of it 08:09:55 dpeg: I meant compared to bucklers 08:10:05 people like to wear bucklers a lot :) 08:10:13 last game I had an early large shield and an early CPM, and didn't feel like missing much 08:10:17 that's usually what people mean when they say shields are great 08:10:24 of course, all is different if you want to cast 08:10:25 kilobyte: it hurts delay too 08:10:33 especially if you are using a 1.5-handed weapon 08:10:38 and we are talking about the start 08:10:47 regular shields are more common than bucklers early on anyway 08:11:04 trident is 1.5-handed, fighter weapons are not 08:11:06 the only monsters with bucklers are elves, which you don't see for a while 08:11:16 kilobyte: well, the suggestion was for gladiator also I thought 08:11:20 and spear is 1.5-handed 08:11:21 i had a war axe and the starting shield.. and at axe10 and shield6 i got up from "quite slow" to "below average" 08:11:25 so that's wrong too 08:11:38 Napkin: ah, war axe :) 08:11:47 even for 1-handed weapons, the shield penalty is substantial nowadays 08:11:59 it was buffed in 0.7, iirc 08:12:05 well, didn't manage to do any damage anymore with hand axe at around d3 or d4, dpeg 08:12:11 no one uses spears really... unless you're a Mf of a wrong class 08:12:20 kilobyte: huh? 08:12:32 spear is the best starting weapon, unless you are using an awkward shield 08:12:41 all my warpers and such go spear 08:12:45 so with the handaxe at d3 it was either miss, not being able to hit or not doing damage 08:12:53 Napkin: I think it's good if players have to choose between "heavy weapon", "heavy shield", "heavy weapon" for speed/accuracy reasons 08:12:56 of course you upgrade to a trident when you find one 08:13:00 and that "awkward shield" gives you double the defense you'd get from any early armour 08:13:17 I also think it's good when opinions are divergent. 08:13:29 dpeg: but can't at least one of gladiator and fighter start with a buckler? 08:13:33 they are already too similar 08:13:36 so yeah, you suffer a small delay penalty but get great defense in return 08:13:40 elliptic: sure, sounds good 08:13:42 that sounds reasonable, yes 08:13:47 since gladiators will pick up spells 08:13:51 yes 08:13:52 paladin also starts with a shield 08:13:56 so.. when i finally managed to get hand axe to "below average" attack speed, i was forced to switch to war axe with "quite slow" 08:13:57 so buckler for Gl 08:14:03 elliptic: but who knows how long Pa will be around 08:14:07 yeah 08:14:15 otherwise it was like.. 20 times attack to kill an orc 08:14:23 shield for Pa makes a lot more sense to me though 08:14:27 because of TSO ability 08:14:30 yes 08:14:31 not sure what to do about that.. just thought it might be less boring with buckler 08:14:48 Napkin: it seems as if Gl will get the buckler now :) 08:15:18 for Tukima's Dance Party -- very high level or not available at all? 08:15:36 well, i've played dodging char for like all of 0.7.. hence my comment now, that i played a heavy armour char first time since 0.7 was released 08:16:05 it'd be a high-level hex i guess, which is something 08:16:28 tukima's dance is already really overpowered though 08:16:31 yeah, but so overpowered it'd fit for a 9 08:16:47 I'd rather see the L3 spell fixed before adding a higher-level version 08:17:11 sorear's nerf wasn't enough? 08:17:18 not for heavy weapons 08:17:21 and also - finding a waraxe in d3 is quite lucky. consider people with hand axe entering lair too 08:17:27 a couple of dancing GSCs kill mennas easily 08:17:45 they are actually stronger than they used to be if you have the carrying capacity for the heavy ones 08:18:09 Ah, ok. 08:18:29 oh huh the freezing cloud spell fix actually broke them in the opposite direction 08:18:35 they fail to cast even when you're in range, now 08:18:58 i know fighter has been too strong in the past - but.. with the current delayrate/hitrate/damagerate if you do not find something bigger than handaxe - it's not very interesting... ok, might still be design decision as I know you ;-P 08:19:19 * Napkin is back to work * 08:20:21 elliptic: so it's just a question of nerfing Tukima spell at the upper end of weight 08:21:01 yeah 08:21:25 probably great mace/battleaxe and heavier is where they are clearly overpowered for a L3 spell 08:21:30 is it ever really worth using on stuff other than gsc currently? 08:22:06 marvinpa: dancing great maces are pretty tough even if they aren't quite as uber 08:22:43 obviously if you can wield GSC you should use it on them, but I think the spell is sort of ridiculous still on other stuff too 08:23:42 elliptic: more ridiculous than it used to be in the past? 08:24:44 hard to compare... the dancing great maces or whatever have much more HP and AC than they used to, but I believe they are also slower 08:25:17 at least now you need to carry around several heavy weapons to make good use of it; the problem is just that good use of it is very overpowered given how easy it is to set up 08:25:46 certainly this current situation is an improvement over old tukima with daggers and such 08:25:50 elliptic: would it be okay if restricted to one or two weapons? 08:26:25 well, I think monqy said he killed mennas at L14 with just 2 GSCs 08:26:41 Cloud spells can only be cast up to range 2 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3382) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 08:27:22 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:21 i can't even beat him with 3 in the arena locally 08:28:57 03matthew * r34ebe0165282 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files in 3 dirs): Tukima v 1.0 08:28:59 03kilobyte * rd792155568c4 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Nerf gladiator's shield to a buckler. 08:29:00 03kilobyte * rbd743f5f5188 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Make Tukima's Dance Party tentatively Hex/9. 08:29:04 nerfing the high end and putting some sort of a cap on the number of weapons that can dance at a time (or make the duration shrink if you have more) 08:29:11 might work 08:31:25 kilobyte: cool 08:31:48 dpeg: she doesn't currently spawn anywhere, though 08:31:56 Mu_: I just watched it on footv, and one of the GSCs got a free hit or two in while mennas was hitting him, but aside from that it was just two GSCs killing mennas 08:31:59 kilobyte: no vault in the patch? 08:32:19 took me 5 in the arena idk 08:32:30 yeah... she gets a small band of dancing weapons and (why?) phantoms, but no vault 08:32:52 I wonder if a pre-made battleground would be good 08:33:57 kilobyte: yes, will come, afaiu 08:34:00 I was thinking of a preparatory spell for Tukima's: you have to align a weapon to be Tukimafied. Would also be level 3. Advantage 1: can restrict number of tukimafiable weapons in some way (spell power, total weight). Advantage 2: 6 spell slots used, but not a level 6 spell. 08:34:44 he spanked 5 GSCs 86:13 08:35:13 comments in ghost.cc:653 says: We want Tukima to reward characters who invest heavily in both carrying capacity and enchantments skill. Therefore, heavy weapons are a bit stronger when animated, and benefit much more from very high skill. 08:35:35 althought it may be wrong and/or obsolete, I don't really know 08:35:36 it gets equal at 7 08:35:52 well, regardless of how lucky monqy was to kill mennas with just 2 GSCs, it isn't hard to get 8 or 9 in the air at once currently :) 08:36:15 elliptic: yes, that's obsessive 08:36:34 those numbers from the arena sounds strange though 08:36:48 ./crawl -arena '7 dancing weapon ; giant spiked club v mennas delay:0 t:99' 08:36:49 is it possible that arena dancing weapons are different in some way? 08:37:51 they get a default power, but IIRC it's pretty high 08:37:59 another example of tukima's power: I cleared tomb:1 easily with a L14 troll 08:38:23 you could do that with kiku though :) 08:38:32 180... 08:38:49 you don't get that much, the spell's cap is 150 08:39:28 elliptic: remember what kind of spell power you had? 08:39:48 actually, there's a redundant cap that affects even monster ones 08:39:52 !log . trwz place=tomb:2 08:39:53 1. hyperbolic, XL15 TrWz, T:21666: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hyperbolic/morgue-hyperbolic-20101221-094045.txt 08:40:04 not high 08:40:22 and it was even lower when I killed khufu and his band in crypt before then 08:40:28 what weapon was it? 08:41:00 maybe there's a bug 08:42:38 I'm looking at arena right now and the dancing GSCs look way weaker than they were in game 08:43:59 !fight 2 dancing weapon ; giant spiked club v mennas delay:15 t:20 arena:corridor 08:44:27 2-3 orc priest smites kill one, for instance 08:49:02 um. 08:49:05 tukima as a unique? 08:49:06 I just killed mennas with three GSCS easily in wizmode 08:49:18 so something is definitely funky with the arena 08:49:22 (or bugged in the game) 08:49:36 is it just me, or is there a thematic clash with tukima's wizlab? 08:49:39 Zaba: name may change 08:49:48 not just you 08:52:52 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:19 -!- coolio_mc has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:08 name the unique terpsichore ;p 09:37:25 Mu_: why not? 10:01:49 hey? what's the "Hero" status? 10:02:59 new oka ability to replace might 10:03:16 oh 10:03:19 damn 10:03:57 can I read up on it somewhere? 10:04:17 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:28 +5 to all non-magic skills 10:04:55 oh wow 10:06:48 we have tukima's dance party and alistair's intoxication 10:06:55 now we just need a coloured lighting spell 10:10:37 heck, it could actually work 10:11:22 wakes monsters but makes them likely to be distracted, not affected by MR (since it's an indirect enchantment) 10:11:41 ??book of party tricks 10:11:41 book of party tricks[1/1]: Spells: Summon Butterflies, Apportation, Projected Noise, Blink, Levitation, Alistair's Intoxication. 10:16:09 some sort of crazy disco spell would be an interesting replacement for mass confusion 10:16:18 which is kind of boring as it's just confusion++ right now 10:20:03 alistair's nightclub 10:20:33 Disc o' Lighting 10:28:53 -!- galehar has quit [*.net *.split] 10:29:11 Cool @ Finese 10:35:00 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:48 03eronarn * r7ddc97fbe968 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Modify the "Nothing wielded" message for forms and claw-havers. 10:36:49 03kilobyte * r30b22cd41056 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Make "nothing wielded" even betterer. 10:36:50 03MarvinPA * rb1d1c8eca886 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Adjust ability piety costs 10:40:16 betterer? 10:41:08 my initial attempt wasn't perfect 10:41:17 kilobyte: i think even 5 piety was kinda cheap for greater servant :P 10:42:12 but 4 is an improvement at least, heh 10:44:02 + text = "Blade " + blade_parts(true); 10:44:03 yessss 10:44:15 Blade tentacles 10:44:27 hahah 10:44:36 <3 10:44:52 so felids will actually get blade paws? 10:45:00 yes. crawl is doomed 10:45:05 amazing 10:45:49 what the piety of summon A? 10:45:50 kilobyte: stil not sure about ice beast btw. we should figure out wtf they're actually supposed to be 10:45:58 so we stop having uncertainty about it 10:46:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:04 6 now 10:46:06 it was 4 10:47:03 well, piety does val + random2( (val + 1) / 2 + 1 ) 10:47:31 so 6 + random2(4) or whatever instead of 4 + random2(2) 10:47:53 (i didn't actually work out those numbers) 10:48:17 MarvinPA: they already did get "blade paws" in all other messages, this is the only one left I think 10:48:27 save for the spell's name, of course 10:48:55 ah yeah, and the status light just says blades 10:54:48 03kilobyte 07octopus * r3a837c4b60c6 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: "Blade tentacles". 10:54:51 03kilobyte 07octopus * r6813b019f006 10/crawl-ref/ (1407 files in 106 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into octopus, fix breakage. 10:57:15 oh, that reminds me... 10:57:18 * Eronarn goes off to make a patch 11:02:06 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:04:54 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:35 dont feel as though it's worth BRing but: scroll of paper still shows up on \- despite being removed 11:09:27 it didn't really get removed, as such 11:09:34 it just doesn't generate 11:10:03 I guess it will be removed upon the next major save version change 11:11:19 magic dart feels very lackluster as xl1 to take out the first training dummy in spellcasting tutorial :( 11:12:38 Draconian genus-based title at XL27 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3383) by Eronarn 11:15:33 Dragon Porcupine 11:22:24 st_: otoh, Dragon of Death 11:29:07 the refactored recite stuff is much nicer 11:30:33 anyone know how i'd go about adding an enchantment that always expires in just a few turns? not sure quite how the decay stuff works 11:35:02 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:41:52 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:16:22 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:52 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:35 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:24 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:53 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:49 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:13 Silenced area in the Abyss (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3384) by jpeg 13:19:14 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:28 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:42 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:02 FR: butchered snails leave shells, which can be enchanted to make snail mail 14:01:35 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:59 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:20 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:01 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:44 03j-p-e-g * rd0de38cf98c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Various tutorial tweaks, mostly wording fixes. 14:32:19 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:40 -!- SpaceT has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:02 balancing request: LESS SLINGS FROM TROG!!!! i am dead serious 14:33:20 -!- SpaceT has left ##crawl-dev 14:33:29 fewer 14:34:02 03galehar * rc800eb9f9e2f 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-clouds.cc: Fix cloud spells range. 14:34:04 03galehar * rff61a5e8c494 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Fix "tab for replaying last sprint map" showing up in tutorial menu. 14:35:39 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:33 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:15 03j-p-e-g * r4cac62b3658b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc tilereg-dgn.cc): Suppress tree descriptions on mouseover. 15:05:17 03j-p-e-g * r2bb74c70ddb5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc describe.h): Suppress feature quotes in hints mode and tutorial. 15:24:50 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:07 Maurice tile should not have a weapon overlay (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3385) by coolio 15:42:45 03j-p-e-g * r620e0c23c98d 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Mention scrolling commands on message history screen. 15:42:47 03j-p-e-g * r9d6e1c33155c 10/crawl-ref/source/tilemcache.cc: Fix #3385: Maurice getting an unnecessary weapon overlay. 15:42:50 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:10 Pressing Space in the Tutorial command help displays a blank screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3386) by jpeg 15:54:20 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:51 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:37 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:39 -!- Textmode has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:43 -!- Elvashi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:17 -!- Elvashi is now known as Textmode 16:20:50 03j-p-e-g * rdfb1936d63a3 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: Add a message on forgetting a spell by book destruction. 16:29:01 swearing content, but people in here might like this 16:29:05 http://i.imgur.com/S0BtP.jpg 16:29:15 Eronarn 16:29:21 courtesy of, I mean 16:31:06 'and i got it from ##crawl-offtopic' 16:36:12 <3 16:38:56 makes me think of one of the ideas for Slime walls 16:41:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:48 Zannick: a potion that makes slime walls go away when drank? Sounds... interesting. 16:44:49 kilobyte: no, "the walls are melting" reminded me of an idea to make the walls in slime move over time 16:45:58 kilobyte: i had the idea earlier that "Neutralize Acid" might be a decent spell: acid resist, damage to acidic creatures, disable slime walls... 16:46:30 might be too limited, but worth thinking about. or possibly merging with ignite poison, so that it hits both poison and acid 16:47:57 03galehar * r494a9cd07d9b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc skills2.h): Tutorial: simple skill menu. 16:49:56 mm.. maybe ignite'd make a good silence-style spell. range based on power, lasts a duration, damage to igniteable stuff each turn (rather than all-at-once) 16:51:12 igniting acid? Ie, game over unless death doored in Slime, otherwise turns the map into all floor like nuke in DoomRL? :p 16:55:32 galehar_: yay! 16:55:38 03kilobyte * r16e4c11c5e85 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player-equip.cc skills.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Identify staff brands on wield, just like weapons and rods do. 16:55:40 dpeg: should we generate some staves and rods cursed? 16:55:49 kilobyte: good idea! 16:55:51 absolutely 16:56:19 kilobyte: well, the walls are just slime-covered, not made out of slime - but yeah, it'd be pretty epic 16:56:42 they're made of slime 16:56:58 isn't the description "slime-covered rock wall" or "slimy wall" or something 16:57:33 they're made of slime in my heart 16:57:47 see a doctor 16:58:29 * dpeg gives TGWi a slimy hand 17:01:52 dpeg: i think I thought of a way to do overrun: if the monster can't swap harmlessly with something in the way, and monster's damage > other monster's HD^2, attempt to displace the old monster to an adjacent square. If that fails, swap locations. Damage the moved monster, and then move the overrunner. 17:02:27 HD^2 might be too low, and there's size to check too, but i think it should definitely not be squishing Boris or the like but only weaker enemies 17:03:21 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:26 why not simply overrun smaller guys? 17:04:35 not sure it's a good idea to have, e.g., a hill giant overrunning agnes 17:05:12 03kilobyte * r6662e4b5ed6e 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Give staves and rods a chance to be generate cursed. 17:05:13 she's a wee ankle-biter 17:05:38 what's overrun for? 17:05:43 with a big bladed staff to shred you to pieces, but that doesn't make her any bigger 17:06:08 yes, but i think it'd be bad if people were keeping cyclopes or whatever alive so that they could make them trample more dangerous monsters out of the way 17:06:28 that doesn't sound very plausible 17:06:35 TGWi: you mean why, or what's it going to go on? 17:06:41 both I guess 17:06:59 AT_TRAMPLE is an attack type, like claw, bite, sting, etc. 17:07:11 this means that you can't have, say, a tentacle-slap that tramples 17:07:17 you would have to somehow lead the cyclops along such that said more dangerous monster gets between you and it 17:07:36 AT_TRAMPLE makes sense for something like an elephant where it isn't really kicking you but just trying to step on you 17:08:17 however, what about a monster like a dragon where it' traditionally had bite/claw/claw? now it has bite/claw/trample. a giant would have to get a second, trampling attack 17:08:41 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:42 thus, AF_OVERRUN, which lets you get trample-like effects with any attack 17:08:47 right, so you're making it an attack um 17:08:49 flavour? 17:08:52 yes 17:09:18 also making it so if you kill something by trampling it, you move into its square, even if you couldn't have moved it out of its square 17:09:31 since it makes no sense to stop because you killed something 17:09:57 trample should be seen as 'move into their square, and if you're both alive at the end of the turn and in that square, you have to be moved back to where you were' 17:10:14 03dpeg * red87c10e1fb8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (mini_features.des serial_window.des): Reduce serial vault chances. 17:10:43 1% each now, jeez 17:10:47 kilobyte: doesn't the staff of poison still require evoc 14 to be equivalent to a venom brand? 17:10:56 oh yeah, that reminds me 17:10:57 MarvinPA: it got buffed, yeah? 17:11:07 one of the crappy unrands should get AF_OVERRUN 17:11:09 it used to require evoc 14 to be worse than a venom brand, yes 17:11:12 dpeg: I wrote something on Ash's wiki page 17:11:16 ah 17:11:17 maybe that ogre one? 17:11:21 the club? 17:11:29 speed brand with trample sounds hilarious 17:11:36 03j-p-e-g * r3279d8d5a96e 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg-inv.cc: Fix #2726: Wrong tooltip for evokable staves. 17:11:40 03j-p-e-g * rf9d89a5aac22 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Fix #3321: Don't prompt for viable unarmed attacks. 17:11:56 pointless_: cool, will look at the wiki later 17:12:11 btw: I don't think extra damage for being trampled into a wall is necessary 17:12:22 TGWi: but why? 17:12:26 if someone wants to corner themselves that's already an interesting strategic decision :P 17:12:43 no, not really 17:12:44 plus it's flavourfully questionable, ie in cases of lava, other monsters 17:12:47 you don't have to corner yourself, you can set it up diagonally 17:12:57 TGWi: the code can support knocking monsters into each other 17:13:01 it is much more interesting to choose between being pushed around (which is always a bit risky) and extra damage 17:13:16 also, fire damage for lava 17:13:40 the other thing is that if the damage is too high, people will dance around elephants so that they can keep getting pushed around 17:14:11 another random idea would be that trample can shove you to squares that were adjacent to both where you were going to be trampled to and where you are 17:14:28 so you can't do: 17:14:29 ### 17:14:31 .@. 17:14:33 elephants packs on every floor are really annoying, especially if you get a late lair 17:14:33 Y.. 17:14:42 eronarn's idea is good 17:14:51 it'd shove you one east in that example 17:14:55 extra trampling damage against walls sounds fine but it'd be nice if they were a little less common 17:15:11 and then maybe make extra damage only in corners? 17:15:23 if that's even necessary 17:15:26 MarvinPA: yes, but these are unrelated issues 17:15:29 i can see arguments for either way 17:15:49 I like Eronarn's way 17:15:57 also: is it possible to not trample as a dragonform player? 17:16:08 MarvinPA: not currently but i strongly believe it should be implemented 17:16:17 MarvinPA: not now, it _could_ become a safe attack feature 17:16:52 dpeg: i think for dragonform it should - if we later add a form where you can't make the choice (AVALANCHE FORM), that's cool 17:16:57 safe attack still doesn't work if you have vi keys turned off :( 17:16:58 it's never been a big issue for me but there've definitely been a couple of times i've trampled into sight of ranged attackers when i knew i didn't want to 17:17:39 by safe attack do you mean ctrl+dir? 17:17:53 you can do it with * too right 17:17:57 yeah 17:18:04 * doesn't work either 17:18:10 numpad supremacy 17:18:24 TGWi: sure it does 17:18:40 include = no_vi_command_keys.txt 17:18:43 not with this 17:18:50 xom vault with a meph cloud generator surrounded by water you say 17:18:55 s/water/lava/ 17:19:22 MarvinPA: I guess it's not a big deal for now, but we will want proper safe attacks once there are attack moves 17:19:40 for jellies and stuff? 17:20:36 for example, ys 17:21:26 could be nice to have separate toggles 17:21:42 attack in X direction without moving, attack in X direction without performing a special attack 17:21:56 e.g., if you want to do your knockback attack move on an invisible enemy, or whatever 17:22:23 ctrl dir is getting kind of overloaded 17:22:33 TGWi: how often do you use it? 17:22:35 * for no-move, ** for no-do-anything? 17:22:45 Eronarn: I don't think that is necessary 17:22:51 dpeg: never; it doesn't work with vi keys disabled 17:22:53 dpeg: depends on what the attack moves are 17:23:05 people will complain if they can die because one triggered 17:23:10 but it's used for attack without moving and toggling doors and disarming traps 17:23:22 -!- galehar_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20101227155314]] 17:23:24 but they'll also complain if they want to use one, but not move into a square on an attack 17:23:39 is attack-without-moving used actually? 17:23:41 nobody will complain about that :P 17:23:41 TGWi: i think that sort of works though 17:23:48 dpeg: yes 17:23:49 dpeg: against invisible stuff it's probably useful 17:24:00 it's useful if you are walking into something like an imp 17:24:13 especially with new-invis where you get an indication of where they are 17:25:15 it just seems like the more functions get put on ctrl dir, the more collisions there will be 17:25:41 those ones will never overlap though 17:25:44 the stuff eronarn is saying, plus the classic "attacking without moving while a door is adjacent to you" 17:25:51 or "while a trap is adjacent" 17:26:10 TGWi: well, if it doesn't handle that sensibly, that's one thing 17:26:26 there's no way to magically determine what the player wants to do 17:26:31 it sure looks like they're disarming that trap 17:26:38 what? sure there is 17:26:51 oh, attack without moving is also useful if you're attacking something like a kobold room and trying not to step inside it 17:26:55 if someone ctrl-moves into a square with an enemy, attack them 17:27:10 if someone ctrl-moves into a square with a door or trap and no enemy, do whatever else 17:27:27 what if the person doesn't want to disarm a blade trap while fighting an unseen horror? 17:27:44 TGWi: then they can be expected to move away from the trap 17:27:52 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:27:58 that's what I'm saying, though 17:27:59 TGWi: check whether they've seen something invisible lately 17:28:16 'attacked in the past round', even 17:28:17 it's an arbitrary strategy choice based on interface constraints 17:28:30 obviously it's not important but this will come up more with more effects on the same command 17:28:41 or just 'disarm the trap? y/n if n attack into this square? y 17:31:09 TGWi: since we will want a plant trap command at some time, I don't think this is a big deal anyhow. 17:31:39 could merge plant trap and disarm trap 17:31:46 since they're obviously mutually exclusive 17:31:47 yeah 17:32:13 as for closing/opening doors, I don't know why it even does that 17:32:12 open/close/build door 17:32:21 C and O exist 17:33:10 opening doors on * dir is superflous by now 17:33:18 yeah 17:39:54 hi 17:40:45 did I break anything with my commit last night? 17:46:14 due: hi! 17:46:32 no, but dancing weapons are still broken (disappear when timing out) 17:46:42 really??? 17:46:45 I tested that :/ 17:46:54 Is this on CDO or a local build? 17:47:01 someone posted a fix on mantis, but I didn't apply it because of your refactoring 17:47:27 local too 17:47:28 I just pulled today and they seem to time out just fine 17:47:34 where on mantis? 17:49:36 I can't see a patch anywhere 17:49:50 oh, monqy's comment on #3365? 17:50:41 strange... just tried three times, they worked ok twice but went poof the third time 17:50:55 argh 17:52:42 11... 17:52:56 Eronarn: where is that new spells wiki page of yours? 17:53:21 kilobyte: I just tukima'd 11 weapons and none of them disappeared... 17:54:04 uhm they're now elsewhere on the level... wandered off somehow? 17:54:51 Duvessa failed to enrage upon Dowan's death (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3387) by GameKnut 17:55:15 kilobyte: most likely 17:56:15 Where do I put code overhaul on the wiki? 17:57:01 dcss:dev? 17:57:19 you could search for some suspects 17:57:48 I'll create a new namespace for it. It's not really brainstorming. 17:57:54 oh 17:57:58 dcss:brainstorm:internal :/ 17:58:01 dpeg: 'immense' on the wiki. don't have a link, no browser open atm 17:58:14 though not everything is there 17:58:36 ok 18:00:40 -!- coolio_mc has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 18:03:14 codeverhaul 18:04:01 dpeg: the point RE: cursing for ash is that you need to get curse scrolls of a particular type to fulfill the boundedness conditions (you only need 1 curse weapon, you need several curse armor), and the method for getting the curse scrolls you need is a slot machine. 18:04:16 pointless_: that is true 18:04:20 My proposal is to consolidate the curse "foo" types to just "curse equipment," and just prompt ash worshipers to select what they want to curse. 18:04:29 then again, if you have more ?CW, you can switch weapon more often 18:04:32 ...nore sure that matters 18:04:53 it doesn't, you just end up with a gigantic stack of them unused 18:04:56 if you feel curse scrolls are too accessible, reducing generation is better than the random prayer method in my opinion 18:05:06 pointless_: I replied, did you see? The concern was ?RC scarcity. 18:05:37 dpeg: well in my view directly decreasing generation is a better idea if you think RC is too common for ash worshipers 18:06:07 did you read the idea that ?RC uncurses exactly one item, for anyone? 18:06:28 dpeg: I don't see what this has to do with getting the correct curse scroll types on an ash worshiper? 18:06:46 pointless_: it means that ?RC becomes more valuable, so we can relax somewhere else 18:07:41 Why can't cursing just be an evokable? 18:07:50 "Ash's curse extends over you". 18:08:06 dpeg: well in my view, prayer to get a random curse scroll is bad, and consolidating curse scroll types, then prompting to ash worshipers to pick what to curse addresses the problem. If you feel this would make ?RC too available then that can be dealt with in some way, but I think compensation for the change is largely a separate issue 18:08:27 Having piety-relevant effects rely on consumables seems prone to problems. I have not played Ash though. 18:09:11 due: it is less of an issue than (not) finding fruits with Fedhas 18:09:56 dpeg: Yes, but I think Fedhas's fruit thing is different.. 18:10:05 With Fedhas you need fruit to use the abilities. 18:10:15 With ash you need curses to get piety and access to the abilties in the first place. 18:10:59 One causes piety, the other is the result of piety. Being able to directly affect piety because you did or did not get a randomly generated scroll is different to not being able to use because you don't meet the fruit requirement, no? 18:11:13 pointless_: I'll explain again. One Ash idea is that followers have limited flexibility, since they'll need to un/re-curse gear more often. That's why ?RC was chosen to provide curses... This makes it more poignant (do you say so?). If we make cursing otherwise available, we could cut on removals (for both Ash followers and the rest) by having ?RC only uncurse one item every time. 18:12:18 dpeg: I have no opinion on the ?RC removes only one item issue. That would be fine, but I don't particularly care. I'm not trying to argue with you about it, my main objection is to the mechanism of getting one of the 3 curse "foo" scrolls randomly from prayer 18:12:56 pointless_: yes, I understand (and I agree with that point) 18:18:39 There is one underlying problem, however: if we condense the Curse Foo scrolls to just one Curse Item, we can reduce generation to 1/3. But one of the ideas behind Ash was that useless items should become a useful commodity. 18:22:00 well you'd still have Curse Equipment as a useless item, and remove curse is rarely relevant normally 18:22:39 pointless_: yes, probably 18:22:56 I found the curse minigame to be okay, that's why I am a little reluctant, is all. 18:23:11 The gamble is one of the weaker points, I concede that. 18:23:56 add a new scroll of curse item which is only accessible via cursing rc 18:24:21 and targets an item 18:24:38 btw, we had this idea that ?RC would target an item :) 18:27:21 re-add scrolls of paper, let ashenzari turn those into scrolls of curse (your choice) for a piety cost 18:30:26 as someone who has played a fair number of ash games, I haven't minded the way cursing items works with prayer changing ?RC to a random curse type 18:30:54 it adds more randomness to the cursing minigame, sure 18:31:04 as someone who has splatted a few ash worshipers lately I find it annoying 18:31:27 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:internal:death 18:31:31 seconding that it is pretty annoying 18:31:58 seconding that i don't mind it :P 18:32:19 it means balancing keeping more ?RC around with trying to get the right curse scroll 18:32:20 plurality of opinions :) 18:32:26 thirding whichever side will pay me more 18:32:35 oh god :( 18:33:17 TGWi: i'll submit a patch with silly hats if you oppose us 18:33:33 you wouldn't! 18:33:45 okay okay it was a bluff :( 18:34:00 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:internal:death 18:34:03 Okay, I fixed the page 18:34:10 would really appreciate coder comments on my suggestion 18:37:51 MarvinPA: submit a patch with silly hats so i can submit my patch with silly hats so we can have two completely unrelated mechanisms for crawl to generate silly hats 18:38:14 didn't you already submit yours? 18:38:39 i made it but i didn't submit it 18:38:44 it's on github though 18:38:47 ah ok 18:42:47 :) 18:42:54 elly: ping 18:44:19 MarvinPA: don't get bogged down by the loadstone of responsibility! 18:44:37 * due stuffs a loadstone in MarvinPA's bag of holding. 18:44:46 heh, i'll try not to :P 18:44:51 MarvinPA: don't convince dpeg that inaction on the ash prayer mechanic is a good idea 18:44:58 hehe 18:45:16 I traded MarvinPA's entry against inaction on the ash prayer front. 18:45:22 yay, more devs! 18:45:32 :O 18:45:37 MarvinPA: yay grats 18:45:43 yes, the goal is to make sure that half of ##crawl-dev is devs 18:46:07 * Zannick looks at /names 18:46:08 :O 18:46:13 dpeg: long way to go 18:46:22 Zannick: yes, seems like it 18:46:23 Zannick: No, dpeg just wants 27 active devs. 18:46:28 <3 18:46:33 :D 18:47:06 who needs 42 when you can have 27? 18:47:20 each dev creating their own race, class, god and branch? 18:47:46 octopodes, alchemists, frankenstein god, dwarven fortress 18:47:56 heh 18:48:08 MarvinPA: now, that is a good plan 18:48:27 Eronarn: by Beogh, your wiki page is massive 18:49:20 dpeg: i have that many spells over again that haven't even made it onto that page 18:49:39 i have enough stuff that i want to code to keep me occupied until at least 2012 18:49:59 Eronarn: makes for tough reading! 18:51:53 dpeg: i'd actually like to split out the page into spell school stuff (like what due did recently) and spell proposals 18:52:06 it would be nice to have a page of the latter 18:52:42 just simple starter ideas, ranked by order of feasibility and with revisions to existing spells at the top; if they get coded, they get moved off to their own page and a link left behind 18:53:50 unfortunately, i am not sure how to best do that on the wiki, formatting wise. wiki lists are annoying to read 18:57:11 needs subpages, I guess 18:57:24 dpeg: go to bed! 18:57:29 true 18:57:33 * dpeg goes to bed 18:57:45 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: nights all!] 18:58:00 :) 18:58:15 for someone who comemnted almost 20 minutes ago that he had to go to bed, dpeg is certainly not a loer of sleep :) 18:58:58 -!- Gnash has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:41 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:21:26 is it a bug that you can apport the orb of zot into lava? 19:21:44 hahahaha yes 19:21:55 normally you can't apport items if you're flying above lava, but if you stand on the far side of a lava lake and it only decides to move a couple of squares... 19:21:58 I think there's even a comment along the lines of "this doesn't check for dangerous stuff" 19:22:07 it'll drop into the lava and be destroyed :P 19:22:07 I forgot about sprint, obviously. 19:22:16 oh huh yeah, i didn't think of sprint 19:22:17 MarvinPA: Go and fix it then! 19:22:23 spl-transloc.cc. 19:22:40 If "check_feat_destroys_item(grd(new_loc))" then don't move the orb, just let it sit there stubbornly. :) 19:23:01 heh okay, i'll try! 19:24:29 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:40 due: what do you think about Tukima then unique? Mu suggested renaming her Terpsichore or something, because of conflict with the wizlab, and I think that's a good idea. 19:26:50 s/then/the/ 19:27:07 kilobyte: I am totally for Tukima-the-unique becoming Something-else-the-unique. 19:27:21 My personal opinion is that we shouldn't make uniques out of the name wizards because that takes away some of the Mystique to them. 19:27:30 is tukima's dance party a serious name? 19:27:35 It also introduces a variety of "SO why isn't such-and-such unique in their wizlab!?" 19:27:42 wasn't the same thing done to zonguldrok -> antique lich? 19:27:49 MarvinPA: Yes. 19:27:58 cool, thought so 19:27:58 TGWi: serious enough to be tentatively put into trunk 19:28:00 MarvinPA: This is my policy. :) 19:28:13 TGWi: FR: "Tukima's Undeground Rave" 19:28:45 Alistair's Bar Crawl 19:28:53 conjure flame party 19:28:55 it's firestorm 19:29:20 if someone commits tukima's rave I am going to paint the biggest bikeshed 19:30:13 TGWi: Sure. What colour will you paint it? 19:30:20 puce 19:30:29 you're a sick man TGWi 19:30:31 Mmm yummy. 19:30:35 I *love* puce. 19:30:48 barf 19:31:01 Puce, purple, magenta... 19:31:07 it'll be painted with barf 19:31:07 All the beautiful colours of the world <3 19:31:16 Barf is a variable colour. 19:31:24 What colour will the barf be?! We must be sure it is the right colour! 19:31:36 megabat grey 19:32:11 Aw, boring. 19:41:12 2 potions of experience, 3 scrolls of acq, and 2 cure mutation from a bailey 19:41:30 was it the bailey with the orc warlord? 19:41:35 yes 19:42:05 yeah, that one has much better loot than the others... it is harder too but the loot could use a nerf 19:42:26 !lg * ikiller=vampire mosquto 19:42:27 No games for * (ikiller=vampire mosquto). 19:42:28 !lg * ikiller=vampire mosquito 19:42:29 6. Grimm the Cloud Mage (L12 DEAE), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, slain by a vampire mosquito on D:14 on 2011-02-03, with 27798 points after 28341 turns and 2:45:51. 19:42:41 need to reduce teh band size of those 19:43:17 * kilobyte agrees with Donald wrt mosquitoes. 19:43:30 especially in RL 19:43:57 hmm... only checking for feat_destroys_item isn't really sufficient for sprint 19:44:19 sprint 1 has deep water in the way on one route, which doesn't destroy the orb 19:44:24 but also there's no guarantee of a fedhas altar 19:44:37 MarvinPA: make a new function then 19:44:40 and you can't go fedhas as undead anyway 19:44:49 something like... 19:44:59 feat_virtually_destroys_items :) 19:45:04 which checks for both lava and deep water. 19:46:09 okay, i guess it should ignore whether the player is merfolk 19:46:27 since it'd be weird if the orb only lets itself be apported into deep water if you're a merfolk 19:46:34 yes 19:46:46 it should only check the grid for lava or deep water or whatever 19:46:53 and be agnostic as to the player, etc 19:50:29 TSO & attacking berserk mobs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3388) by lk1d 19:59:10 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 20:03:28 okay cool, this works now 20:03:45 the orb just refused to move instead of being dragged into lava or deep water, yay 20:03:48 refuses* 20:04:08 :D 20:19:46 hm, so i need to make a sourceforge account to be able to actually commit things? 20:20:40 Do you not have a sourceforge account? 20:20:52 In which instance you don't have commit access which means that dpeg didn't give you the flag. Naughty dpeg! 20:20:58 heh, nope 20:21:07 started following crawl properly about when it switched to mantis 20:42:17 sourceforge asks you to specify your number of employees if you're a student, nice 20:42:26 pretty sure i have less than 50 employees 20:52:29 due: MarvinPA added as a committer 20:52:34 elly: <3 20:52:51 MarvinPA: I'd suggest registering on sourceforge then sending your username in an email to The Ploog. 20:52:59 He'll give you the commit bit when he wakes up, I imagine. 20:53:19 yeah, he sent me an email already saying that he forgot to ask if i had an SF account :P 20:53:26 hahahaha 20:54:51 why is dpeg The Ploog? 21:15:27 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:29 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:58 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:55 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:10 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:13 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:12 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:32 -!- Gnash has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:25:09 -!- Gnash has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:40 -!- Gnash has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:03 -!- stephen has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:13 -!- stephen is now known as stephenf 23:07:28 -!- stephenf is now known as stephen_f 23:10:13 -!- stephen_f has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:12 -!- stephen has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:15 -!- stephen is now known as stephen_f 23:13:36 -!- stephen_f has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:17 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:16 -!- stephen_f has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:53 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:41 -!- stephen_f has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:28 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:20 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:14 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:21 -!- stephen_f has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:38 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:08 -!- stephen_f has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:29 -!- stephen_f has joined ##crawl-dev