01:19:42 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:42:19 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:11 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:12 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:29:20 -!- Nash has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:34:06 -!- Nash has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:52:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:52 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56:32 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:50 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:38:42 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:59 03j-p-e-g * r7c3e7205a2a0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson5.des hints.cc): Tweak spellcasting tutorial. 04:07:10 03j-p-e-g * r5d1f5e4b7f4c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/ (tutorial_lesson4.des tutorial_lesson5.des): Swap tutorial lessons 4 and 5 (spellcasting and magic). 04:26:14 18 abyss exit vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3340) by evilmike 04:31:40 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:32:03 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:28 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:06 kilobyte: Is there a way to do 256-bit colour on Windows console? 04:58:55 -!- Nash has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:25 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:31 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:16:38 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:07 i doubts the default cmd.exe can handle more than 16 colours, considering you can only configure 16 colours in the options dialog 05:19:11 *doubt 05:20:15 yeah 05:20:16 siiigh 05:20:23 * due stabs stabs stabs windows. 05:25:18 i wonder what proportion of windows players even use the console version... i'd imagine the majority (who aren't using putty to play online) use tiles 05:25:29 you would be surprised, actually 05:25:40 I'm a windows player who uses the console person (I mostly play online) 05:25:44 offline I always use tiles though 05:26:42 so you don't actually use the windows console version. you either use putty to play online, or the tiles version 05:26:42 i find the windows fonts and colours are very ass 05:27:24 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:40 also speaking of 256color terminals 05:28:12 Napkin: are you aware cdo doesn't like rxvt-256color as a value for $TERM ? 05:28:14 apparently terminator supports 256 colours nicely 05:28:43 recent rxvt-unicode has started announcing itself using that as a term value 05:29:01 it's something like 7:1 or even higher 05:29:29 although i guess cdo runs debian so when squeeze comes out the problem will go away ;) 05:29:33 I always played console version on windows when i still had sucky US-proxy connection 05:30:23 probably not, RjY - since chroots don't get updated automatically - neither does my server 05:30:42 *sucky us-proxy at work 05:31:22 fair enough, i mean it's not hard to do TERM=rxvt ssh cdo 05:31:55 there is a rxvt-256color in ncurses-term dated back to december 2008 05:32:31 weird. i wonder why it doesn't like it then 05:32:40 $ ssh cdo 05:32:40 Error opening terminal: rxvt-256color. 05:32:40 Connection to crawl.develz.org closed. 05:32:46 try again now 05:32:52 just copied it into the chroot 05:32:54 fixed :) 05:32:59 thanks :D 05:33:12 just trying to keep the chroot as small as possible :) 05:33:14 no problem 05:34:32 RjY: when I first started playing crawl I played windows console online for a couple of months... I switched to the server when I heard about it, for the 2009 tourney 05:34:37 er, not online 05:36:17 tiles in an RL are an abomination to me, even fairly nice ones like crawl's tiles ;P 05:38:15 omfg 05:38:21 and again died to paralyzation?! 05:38:23 fuck 05:38:32 boring shit 05:40:11 !lm Napkin 05:40:14 1798. [2011-01-30] Napkin the Aerator (L14 HEAE) entered the Swamp on turn 48964. (Lair:4) 05:41:29 !log Napkin 05:41:50 672. Napkin, XL14 HEAE, T:50513: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.7/Napkin/morgue-Napkin-20110130-113807.txt 05:43:16 Rupert casts a spell at you. 05:43:45 You suddenly lose the ability to move! 05:43:46 ouch, rupert 05:43:46 so stupid.. 05:43:46 elliptic: heh. i think tiles is a bit more than just fancy graphics though, the interface presents more information to you at a glance and you can play faster. i don't know though, i'm just repeating what i've heard others say. 05:43:46 with the new monster-in-view tab it may, RjY - but it's still missing the names, which it only shows upon tooltip 05:43:46 i mean as opposed to *nethack* tiles which is just basically a translation layer from ascii to blocks of graphics 05:43:48 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:44:27 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:27 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:44:34 RjY: well, what I always say about tiles is that they clutter up the screen with too many unimportant details -- I don't need to know what a dragon looks like, I just need to know it is a dragon :) 05:44:34 especially since it's your only chance to survive a paralyzation *sigh* 05:45:23 "More info at a gance" -- I actually find that it's less. I tend to not recognise monsters and thus die. 05:45:31 that's why the monster-tab is so important, due 05:46:12 Well, there's a reason I still play tiles :) 05:46:54 i heard, it's not shown in all resolutions? I'd rather trade the map for that tab 05:49:11 I'm not familiar with exactly what information tiles provides that console does not 05:49:12 permanent map, inventory visible all the time 05:49:15 item & monster info by mouse-over 05:49:15 yeah forgetting you've got stuff in your inventory that can save you is really annoying 05:49:15 isn't the map too small to be any use? 05:49:15 mouse-over isn't any different from xv :) 05:49:15 it does display monster weapons 05:49:15 remember that time we all forgot syllogism had a wand of healing 05:49:15 except for monsters where it doesn't 05:49:15 well, you can resize it - but that's a matter of taste and can't be argued 05:49:15 speaking of displaying monster weapons, why can't you tell what weapon mara has by looking at him any more? 05:49:15 yeah, monster weaponry at first glance (something console has in ctrl+x now) 05:49:16 and it's better at statuses 05:49:27 is that a bug, or is there some reason he is different? 05:50:30 try a bug report, elliptic? 05:50:41 fastest way to find out ;) 05:51:30 so.. any other rogue-like with auto-explore on the market yet? 05:51:39 i'm getting frustrated at crawl 05:52:27 UnNetHack is apparently getting it 05:52:35 not sure if it's done yet though 05:53:12 i'm starting to write down how I die now 05:54:09 need something to counter these "oh, but the chance to get ABC is so slim" arguments :-P 05:56:57 Mara's weapon is invisible. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3341) by elliptic 05:57:10 does nethack really need autoexplore? or any 80x24 rougelike for that matter 05:57:17 damn.. now i see I forgot to switch back to the =MR after learning the orb for rupert :-$ 05:57:17 elliptic: are you hyperelliptic? or is someone playing silly buggers :) 05:57:17 yes, it is me... :) it is a new account I started the other day to play random combos only 05:57:17 evilmike: it needs interlevel travel more than autoexplore, but still, autoexplore is... i mean, if you've played crawl and try going back to nethack you will miss autoexplore, i know i did 05:57:17 yeah a proper travel feature would be wonderful in nethack, one of the reasons I can't play it any more 05:57:55 Mara's weapon is specifically hidden to preventt clone leak. 05:57:59 However they get duplicated weapons so I don't know why 05:58:02 I thought that got disabled hum. 05:58:10 the version of unnethack on un.nethack.nu has now autoexplore. press 'v' to start it 05:58:25 bhaak: not 'o'? ;) 05:58:38 due: yeah, the weapons used to get cloned fine 05:59:15 due: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682088.aspx#_win32_character_attributes 05:59:32 IIRC underlining doesn't work even though it's defined, too 05:59:48 * due disembowels windows console 05:59:52 due: even though unnethack got autoopen doors now, I rather use the in vanilla unnecessary 'v'. left on v, right hand on your movement keys 06:00:16 so it's just IRGB foreground and IRGB background (note the background intensity bit, which is rarely implemented elsewhere) 06:00:47 but if I recall correctly, the documentation is wrong and that bit means blink 06:00:54 better to have autoexplore on the same hand as movement IMO 06:01:07 bhaak: uually i am drinking with my other hand ;) 06:01:18 due: don't drink and play! 06:01:56 elliptic: i usually play with numpad, also in crawl. 06:03:21 bhaak: tea ;D 06:04:41 bhaak: are you going to put some sort of crawl-style interlevel travel in unnethack also? 06:05:27 03j-p-e-g * r67b873d6471e 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Fix item/feature mouseover leaking mimic information. 06:05:30 03j-p-e-g * rb6856975b653 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc fight.cc show.cc tileview.cc): Simplify a few mimic checks. 06:06:13 elliptic: it isn't is high priority atm, but eventually I would like to add it. 06:07:36 (personally interlevel travel sounds a lot more useful than autoexplore with NH-size levels) 06:11:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:20 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:44 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:45:15 hm, the bug with "The Daedoep the Hellbinder shouts!" and "A Daedoep the Hellbinder, wielding a demon blade, and wearing a robe" is still around 06:45:25 gah :( 06:56:21 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:00 -!- evilmike has quit [] 08:45:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:19 anyone in? 08:54:34 meow? 08:56:03 Hi! 08:56:44 just playing a DS^Ash for fun... in the Lair it occurred to me, that trampling (ie. being pushed by monsters) needs an additional bit: further damage if you can't be pushed. Is that in? 08:57:39 not at the moment 08:58:13 okay, thanks 08:58:21 I'll try to remember it before release :) 09:06:18 morik (L16 MDFi) (Elf:2) 09:07:19 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:30 where do I report crash bugs? 09:08:38 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/tracker 09:08:46 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 09:17:22 can someone retrieve my crash file for me? (Or add it to my bug?) I'm playing on CDO 09:18:31 Crash upon using "draw one" ability on an unided deck (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3342) by morik 09:18:55 !lm morik -log 09:18:55 603. morik, XL16 MDFi, T:40303 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/morik/crash-morik-20110130-150619.txt 09:19:15 thanks 09:19:44 f - the +3 shield of the Orcish Mines {rF++ rC+ Dex+3} 09:19:47 bailey loot 09:19:59 will replace b - the cursed -4 shield "Xithypoff" (worn) {Spirit, +Lev rF+} 09:20:07 morik: thansk for report 09:20:31 should I just link to that crash file, or save & upload it? 09:20:53 you can link it, the url is permanent 09:20:56 ok 09:21:04 well, as permanent as anything is on the web ;) 09:22:11 :) 09:23:02 03j-p-e-g * rf8519bb34450 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Fix #3284, 3285: click-travel stopping for mimics and toadstools. 09:33:36 Sticks to snakes does affect staves (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3343) by JoachimSchipper 09:35:14 hahah 09:37:30 dpeg: I didn't ascend any mountain dwarf during all those years, so I did one yesterday. I intentionally went the most munchkin way possible... MDFi, Okawaru, TSO at Crypt, holy scourge... all until a Shuffle card... 09:38:11 instead I went up spamming Summon Dragon :p 09:38:23 haha 09:38:24 <3 09:38:35 gotta love this game 09:38:56 every single dragon trampled the likes of Cerebov or Lom Lobon each turn 09:39:16 kilobyte: ah, so you're saying that AC is okay now, and that SD is overpowered? 09:39:16 and they always had a summon or a wall on the other side 09:39:48 * dpeg recalls his first win: HDFi^O 09:39:53 it was before the thorough nerf -- CPM gave 60% GDR not 45% 09:40:12 but SD, yes, it is overpowered 09:40:19 kilobyte: we got complaints that AC was too good 09:40:35 eh? it's not overpowered for a level 9 spell 09:40:45 kilobyte: why is it that allied dragons are so strong when monster dragons aren't? 09:41:29 the only CPM I had was a +2 randart, so I would have far more AC normally -- but felt totally invulnerable anyway 09:41:50 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:54 "normally" != have a CPM 09:41:55 the 60%->45% change probably makes CPM worthless compared with GDA/PDA again, though 09:42:05 you should feel lucky that you found one at all 09:42:19 and GDR doesn't do much in extended endgame anyway, so why does it matter? 09:42:53 well, even in a PDA you get to victory dance Dodging on executioners... 09:44:56 dpeg: a single golden dragon can challenge a 3-rune char... with Summon Dragon you can summon several at once (even though you hardly ever get goldens... mostly iron dragons) 09:45:34 at least they eat Cerebov in a few rounds 09:45:51 I haven't tried summon dragon yet, but is it actually better than XXX? 09:46:01 kilobyte: perhaps we should get more of the other dragons from the spell? 09:46:19 I've never had problems with golden dragons (although both my wins have been crusaders) 09:46:35 it's a level 9 spell for a character type that gets 50% XP. Why should it not be able to kill Cerebov and other &? 09:46:35 yeah, golden dragons usually aren't bad unless you get a really early one 09:46:51 by zot they are easy 09:47:00 st_: it's not a problem for normal chars -- Tornado or Firestorm aren't too shabby either 09:47:39 !lg * cv>=0.7 killer=golden dragon s=place 09:47:40 9 games for * (cv>=0.7 killer=golden dragon): 2x D:19, 2x Vault:8, 1x D:22, 1x Zot:4, 1x Vault:4, 1x D:20, 1x D:11 09:47:52 but if you train some other skills, then reskill to Summoning (a single skill), you can get it at xl 16 09:48:20 so the problem is that it's single school? 09:48:22 not the spell's problem 09:48:24 ah, concerned about the same problem there was with tornado? 09:48:25 let's remove reskilling! 09:48:30 * Zaba hides 09:48:31 How does power influence SUmmon Dragon? 09:48:31 elliptic: exactly! 09:48:35 I'd wait for people to actually do that 09:48:39 nobody has yet afaik 09:49:01 * dpeg pulls Zaba out of his hole, and gives a stern lecture. 09:49:07 why should spells be gimped because Ash's reskilling screws up stuff? 09:49:10 seriously though 09:49:15 yes, I agree with st_ here 09:50:17 st_: it doesn't screw up stuff... just shows problems with how some skills work 09:50:18 I think one difference between tornado and summon dragon is that you just needed one cast for tornado to dominate anything, whereas it seems like you want multiple dragons 09:50:45 kilobyte: btw, I think the new monster glyphs for Ash detection are good 09:50:53 the spell itself is a game winner, but that's what you expect from a level 9 spell 09:51:14 high-level spells shouldn't be required to go multischool just because there's reskilling that makes it trivial to get them early 09:51:21 03dolorous * r521124c7ece5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/godspeak.txt delay.cc): Move the Recite closure message into the speech database. 09:51:21 my MDFi had about not int, so a single cast could get me from satiated to very hungry 09:51:28 stop printing hypnotic spectre, it's too good off a turns 1 ritual 09:51:34 -!- TGWiglaf is now known as TGWi 09:51:49 kilobyte: yeah, I was wondering how you were casting it multiple times... 09:52:15 why was tornado made multi-school instead of just being nerfed? 09:52:59 elliptic: I just dealt with popcorn like 1s and most &s by thwapping them with holy scourge 09:53:29 kilobyte: sure, I was wondering about cerebov and such :) 09:53:49 I know that a high-end melee char of TSO is more than capable of killing anything without using dragons, so... 09:54:10 TGWi: apropos of nothing, i've always wondered the opposite: why airstrike is single-school, not conj/air 09:54:26 600ish hunger per cast, a ration has 6000... 09:54:27 not everything has to be conj to deal damage 09:54:31 you don't conjure anything 09:54:43 in flavour, airstrike doesn't conjure anything (it just moves air around) 09:54:50 you just move existing air around 09:55:00 mechanically, it's smite-targeted and has the air bonus 09:55:06 which conjurations don't except fire storm 09:55:12 that's why Tornado was pure Air before I had to add Conj due to Ash abuse 09:55:13 kilobyte: true, not that bad actually 09:55:28 shouldn't you fix ash abuse instead? 09:55:57 should fix ash 09:56:09 anyway, summon dragon is definitely _not_ overpowered, "you can get it early" is irrelevant when a DESu can cast horrible things (a better spell) at the end of lair 09:56:47 I don't really see why you put the blame on Ashenzari... the problem is with how some skills (don't) work. 09:57:05 And we would have had to address that anyway, Ash just highlighting it right now. 09:57:26 he hasn't just highlighted it, he's the only way to manipulate the skill system like that 09:57:39 so far the only thing I've heard is kilobyte explicitly saying "it's ashenzari's fault" 09:58:02 st_: ok, not overpowered, but still very powerful 09:58:15 yes, the commit message is sadly terse 09:58:18 anyone else getting tornado at xl 16 is a cool stunt that's probably not any easier than just playing 09:58:47 Zaba: not really. 09:59:00 wait, so there's something else that offers reskilling? 09:59:10 kilobyte: well, it is good that it is very powerful :) I've been concerned that it would see no use at all given the alternatives... 09:59:33 Zaba: ponder further 10:00:14 kilobyte: I think we might to hard towards new level 9 spells. The storms are extremely powerful too... I wonder how we'd treat them if they're new. 10:01:01 we already axed one or two of them 10:01:19 I think the argument was "boring", but you'd have to ask darshan 10:01:44 sorear: which? 10:01:53 Orb of Electrocution 10:01:53 I am awfully unfamiliar with the late stuff. 10:01:54 just compared it with SHT a bit... seems a bit more powerful but indeed only a bit, no drawbacks though 10:01:58 394d226 just says "Make Tornado Conj/Air", without explanation 10:02:39 it's not just Ash... you could victory dance by hand, tedious but doable 10:02:39 is orb of electrocution the thing that greater destruction casts? 10:02:45 TGWi: yes 10:02:48 ha 10:02:56 TGWi: it used to be in Annihilations too 10:03:15 i recall a comment about air walk being removed because it was trying too hard to be another invulnerability spell, like death's door 10:03:24 it was replaced with Chain Lightning, probably because it's far too similar to Ice Storm 10:03:26 Zaba: A: the current xp/skill system makes it easy to pick up low levels, while it is expensive to get high levels. That's not a problem in itself, unless you can already do all you want with middling skill and there's no incentive to really push a skill. That's the case for some of them, and Ashenzari's fault. 10:03:53 kilobyte: tedious, but 10% more effective 10:04:43 Darshan mentioned yesterday (when we discussed Regeneration) two or three truly broken spells... I forgot all the details because I never used them :( 10:04:44 there's plenty of incentive for fighting and spellcasting to 27 i think :) 10:04:58 dpeg: yeah. On the other hand, you can gain exp by using more powerful skills: Summoning wastes half the xp, Air is weak... 10:05:05 can't have too much hp/mp/spell slots/etc 10:06:09 RjY: yes, but there are many more skills than those two :) 10:06:21 given that experience increases are quadratic-ish 10% isn't a big deal 10:06:34 kilobyte: I agree. Which is why I said that we might have been too harsh on the new skills. 10:07:19 and I don't see the logic in saying reskilling is okay because it's almost the same as a mechanic everyone agrees is not okay 10:07:21 Good evening! 10:07:25 hi keskitalo 10:08:08 Keskitalo: Hi 10:08:19 TGWi: okay, but I have explained and won't do it again. 10:08:25 Keskitalo: hi! 10:08:47 "assertion failed!" crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3344) by Celentes 10:08:57 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:06 so, in other words, reskilling is bad but it's pointless to change it without changing the way training works, so that's not 0.8 material 10:10:15 03dolorous * rbcf3f9494c9f 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Add wording fixes. 10:10:30 makes more sense I guess 10:10:44 kilobyte: I don't agree with the hypothesis but I do agree with the conclusion. 10:14:46 mutarobin (L21 TrGl) ASSERT(!(mons->flags & MF_TAKING_STAIRS)) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 2630 failed. (Vault:8) 10:17:39 dpeg: borg, ... 10:18:50 make ziggurat exits go upwards (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3345) by Celentes 10:19:29 sorear: don't grok? 10:20:05 trying to remember the broken spells 10:20:21 ah 10:21:40 didn't find the passage 10:24:50 Borg is more costly and higher level in 0.8 10:25:09 (not necessarily unbroken now, *shrug*) 10:32:06 03dolorous * r904519b6bd40 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Simplify Recite effect messages. 10:50:36 dpeg: what kind of damage should trampling do? 10:50:55 dunno 10:50:59 d20? 10:51:11 could also depend on the monster (or its weight) 10:51:22 poor flat Cerebov-shaped stain :p 10:51:36 I just want players to make a choice between not being pushed around and no damage 10:53:41 the message needs to be changed from "hold your ground" to "get crushed against the wall" or "you desperately throw yourself to the ground to avoid getting pushed into lava" 10:54:59 -!- kronusdark has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:09 can't think of a message for when Cerebov is between an ufetubus and your dragon, too 10:56:01 kilobyte: what messages do you need' 10:57:53 I mean, "you hold your ground" sounds like you avoided being pushed rather than you took damage by being crushed against something 10:58:13 but that something can be: wall, lava/deep water, a monster 10:58:39 "you get crushed against the lava!" 10:58:44 if wall: "You are crushed against the wall." plus (same line) "This hurts!" if damaged. 10:59:24 ah... 10:59:33 maybe better to not reference the obstacle at all 10:59:44 "The foo tramples you. This hurts!" 11:05:15 is cao down? 11:05:24 Back up again. 11:05:27 oh :p 11:07:12 ??crosstraining 11:07:12 cross training[1/1]: Some weapon skills train twice as fast if you have another skill at higher level. Pairs that allow cross training are Short <-> Long Blades, Maces <-> Axes, Axes <-> Polearms, Polearms <-> Staves, Maces <-> Staves also Slings<->Throwing. 11:07:27 !apt md maces 11:07:27 MD (SK_MACES_FLAILS)=2! 11:07:30 !apt md axes 11:07:30 MD (SK_AXES)=2! 11:07:37 cool 11:09:06 <3 b0rsuk 11:09:12 Keskitalo: for what? 11:10:18 (wrong channel, sorry) 11:10:29 on the wiki, tweaking existing monsters - a nice essay on glass cannon monsters, although I find I agree with the other commenters 11:10:36 but the <3 comes from: 11:10:53 "I feel Crawl is becoming annoyingly stale and resistant to innovation. It's becoming a Nethack 2.0 . More and more often I find myself looking for other games for this reason." 11:11:13 at least he's not insulting anyone in particular :P 11:11:59 that was a reply to comments from minmay and og17 who critizized his ideas 11:12:19 yes, no reason to attach much meaning to this rant 11:12:38 it's hard to not read it like "boo hoo you suck for not recognizing this is a brilliant idea" 11:12:45 It's just not _his_ innovations (at least he thinks...) 11:12:48 yes 11:13:51 I would be insulted 11:14:00 do you know how quaint nethack 2.x was? 11:14:14 haha, yeah 11:14:17 bhaak: I don't worry 11:16:00 anyway, it's a good point that there's very few late game glass cannons, but also it's correct that they'd be easy for dedicated rangers (incl. conj) 11:16:24 who already have easy enough time 11:16:41 elf is an entire branch of them, no? 11:16:58 much easier to come up with monster ideas that are hard to melee that which are hard for rangers 11:17:08 Keskitalo: we need particular/peculiar monster... "glass cannon" alone will just not do 11:17:21 TGWi: I suppose; b0rsuk mentioned it too 11:17:42 I tried to make ettins them (that was someone else's idea too) 11:20:21 or maybe not; st_ suggested stone giant level but melee threat, I kept their hp, ac, ev low 11:30:10 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:31 Keskitalo: titan lord ;) 12:00:17 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:43 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:06 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:11 would anyone be against adding trample as an attack flavor, in addition to an attack type? 12:19:46 so you could have e.g. AT_TAIL_SLAP + AF_TRAMPLE (maybe name it AF_KNOCKBACK to not be confusing) 12:19:48 Kobold's short sword of flaming not identified until it stopped flaming? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3346) by Twilight 12:19:52 Eronarn: can I leave notes on the patch's issue? 12:20:09 TGWi: it's marked as resolved, better to make a new issue imo 12:21:21 also wow do we really figure out whether dragonform tramples by doing string comparison :| 12:28:05 ' Wandering mushrooms usually don't move while you are looking. 12:28:07 <3 comments 12:34:52 recite patch feedback (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3347) by TGW 12:37:29 hey did the tower of silence ever get added? I havent run into it yet 12:38:39 spell idea: nec/hex, Suicide Pact. the target pursues the player like normal, but every time it attacks it hits itself instead. however, the player has to cut themselves every turn the spell is active (breaks if you do anything other than '.', and you take damage) 12:38:56 i can think of how to code it, but does it sound fun / feasible? 12:39:19 :emo: 12:39:46 how much damage would it inflict? 12:40:11 inflicting the bleeding status effect might be enough. currently that's like 3% of HP per round 12:40:15 you should also have it add a different kind of glow that only mutates you with visible scarring that makes you uglier and uglier 12:40:33 it got changed I think 12:40:35 it's like 8% 12:40:38 ! 12:40:42 could be wrong though 12:40:51 TGWi: can you still cheese antaeus with bleeding :) 12:41:00 not sure, never seen that 12:41:04 blackflare: there actually used to be sigil mutations that were that kind of thing 12:41:04 eventually your peers will begin to shun you and youll need to find a psychiatrist or start being tormented randomly 12:41:19 not part of the normal random mutation system, and just on the A screen 12:41:24 neat 12:42:17 hey is the monstrous mutation set prioritized at all to reveal itself early on DS? 12:43:00 well you get it when you get your first body mut 12:43:07 and those show up early 12:43:08 it is just revealed when you get your first body-slot mutation, which is likely to be early but not guaranteed 12:43:13 ah 12:43:30 yeah cause it ruined my last character, and it only revealed at lvl 14 12:43:34 very frustrating 12:43:51 br it, 14 sounds kind of late 12:44:05 it's not technically a bug but i do think it's a defect 12:44:12 well if its as you say, its just random 12:44:18 I got the lottery win 12:44:53 nothing more painful than watching a character getting near castable firestorm slowly losing half your equips :( 12:44:55 Corrupt or Incomplete download (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3348) by westcoaster 12:50:20 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:26 blackflare: it's about adaption, but XL 14 is late, I agree. 12:55:37 Still, think of how awesome winning this one will be! 12:55:50 already dead ;) 12:56:27 blackflare: suiciced? 12:56:41 not exactly, I started playing very carelessly though 12:56:47 that's the same :) 12:56:57 yeah 12:56:57 I lost interest 12:57:12 well, DS is about adaption... 12:57:17 I had plans for him to be a 15 runer and it was a bit annoying 12:57:27 dpeg: hmm, question. I'm adapting trample so that it automatically kills + tramples toadstools. How far should this be extended up the "food chain" of plants? fungus, plants, bushes, etc.? note that ballistomycetes currently count as 'firewood' monsters, in addition to the preceding ones 12:57:28 !lm * type=monstrous s=xl 12:57:30 1024 milestones for * (type=monstrous): 559x 2, 250x 3, 115x 4, 61x 5, 21x 6, 9x 7, 5x 8, 2x 10, 2x 9 12:58:02 if you try to melee a ballistomycetes it will just explode wont it? 12:58:08 Eronarn: this sounds fitting for the other "trample". (We should really find different names for those.) Where big monster can just step on small ones. 12:58:21 ballistomycetes = the 'f', not the '*' 12:58:27 ohh 12:58:30 right 12:58:39 dpeg: i am actually implementing that, kind of :) 12:58:43 awesome 12:58:45 AT_TRAMPLE, vs. AF_OVERRUN 12:58:51 be sure to find better terminology 12:58:53 ah, awesome 12:58:59 currently, they do the same thing, but AF_OVERRUN can be put on any AT_ 12:59:13 ultimately, they should be different 12:59:41 also, kilobyte may have been looking at the additional trample damage (when you're not pushed) alrady 12:59:53 gotta catch a train, see you tomorrow 12:59:56 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: cheers] 13:31:23 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:36 -!- st_ has quit [] 13:42:42 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:52 ok, so VpSu with no good summ books, wand of hasting but no healing, 842 gold 13:51:00 should I acquire book, wand or gold 13:51:07 shit this is -dev 13:51:08 sorry :P 13:51:30 book is the best-designed of those three, do that 13:51:37 haha 13:52:07 outstanding answer 13:52:21 though shouldn't I do the worst designed for testing purposes 13:56:58 Grum on D:13 14:10:21 Inventory slot order becomes inverted at some point (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3349) by jpeg 14:15:22 Inventory slot order becomes inverted at some point (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3350) by jpeg 14:25:21 03j-p-e-g * r12d441c426f3 10/crawl-ref/source/tilemcache.cc: Fix #3330: Giant tiles with floating/missing weapons. 14:25:25 03j-p-e-g * rc41c714b249d 10/crawl-ref/source/tilemcache.cc: Reorder some monsters in the weapon offset function. 14:25:28 03j-p-e-g * r7c9a356e0ebe 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/randbook.txt: Bring randart book names up-to-date with the Enchantment split. 14:25:29 03j-p-e-g * r1eb3f2a5998b 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Purge a redundant function. 14:28:19 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:27 New Necromancer tile candidate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3351) by Curio 14:33:01 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:36 Ashenzari, detected monster, threat level, tiles. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3352) by co 15:06:46 03j-p-e-g * r86acd0ce5263 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Greatly simplify randart book generation. 15:18:35 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:19:35 Eronarn: for trample damage, I only looked, didn't actually implement anything yet 15:20:16 ah 15:20:21 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:34 speaking of fight.cc, spines are supposed to trigger even when the attacker misses, right? 15:21:56 just as long as the defender doesn't block it 15:24:41 blah, i can't figure out how to best get the order of messages working 15:24:46 fight.cc is really not laid out for this 15:25:55 (I'm trying to implement spines for monsters but fight.cc is structured really weirdly and it's hard to fit things in) 15:32:06 kilobyte: how would you handle changing attack verb based on what happens during the attack? right now the verb is set way, way before hurt() gets called 15:32:26 so you don't know whether the monster is going to die 15:33:16 but hurt() calls the death message if it dies, so i can't put it afterwards, either 15:36:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:11 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:48 Recite affects the same opponent multiple times (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3353) by Eronarn 15:48:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:20 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [*.net *.split] 16:05:02 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:02 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:58 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:02 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:08 is there a reason for staff identification to force a --more--, now that they autoid on wield? 16:11:13 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:39 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest38466 16:29:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:00 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:20 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 17:00:44 03kilobyte * r1bb72aa86a86 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/randbook.txt: Move all randart book names from Charms to Hexes, bring in some replacements. 17:00:49 03kilobyte * r4a5bff4ddecc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (ng-setup.cc spl-data.h): Revert the move of branding spells to Charms; they're Hexes again. 17:04:13 YAY! 17:04:42 kilobyte: is there really much reason for sure blade to be hex/charm rather than just hex now? 17:05:16 aside from giving enchanters a spell to train charms up for silence/invis, since those two spells could have charms removed also without much trouble? 17:05:30 all brands should be charm, esp. sure blade 17:05:47 invis and silence should be hex 17:06:03 I've discovered our new bikeshed topic 17:06:13 fuck megabats, HOW DARE YOU MAKE BRANDING SPELLS HEXES :O :O :O :O 17:06:21 FR: megabats cast hexes 17:06:24 or maybe charms 17:06:51 charm/hexes 17:07:22 and yeah, crusaders have some issues now... 17:14:26 morik (L16 MDFi) (Elf:3) 17:14:52 !lm morik -log 17:14:53 605. morik, XL16 MDFi, T:40781 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/morik/crash-morik-20110130-231426.txt 17:16:09 hmm yeah looks like the tomb card crashes me every time 17:20:29 probably related to the imprison changes 17:20:39 since they use the same code 17:24:34 elliptic: the reason is mostly thematic: the spell is supposed to enchant both you and the blade; although having a way to train charms a bit doesn't hurt 17:24:40 we might change silence too 17:25:23 the idea is that it makes you better at using the blade in addition to making the blade better? okay, that makes sense 17:25:57 crusaders look like a mess now though... any plans about what to do there? 17:26:05 if it's worth anything, sure blade doesn't quite fit for enchanters that get clubs (ogen, tren?, others?) 17:28:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 17:29:28 elliptic: I mean the spell's description. "This spell forms a mystical bond between the caster and a wielded short blade" 17:29:59 changing the theme is pretty trivial -- nothing relies on this sentence whatsoever 17:30:41 ok, the spell's messages 17:31:30 sure blade + nec brands in hex, other brands in charms 17:31:57 actually-makes-any-sense-at-all-from-a-flavor-perspective supremacy 17:33:21 kilobyte: I guess from that perspective it might make sense thematically to make confusing touch charms/hexes also? 17:33:32 uhm, how exactly nec brands are different? 17:33:43 elliptic: perhaps 17:34:34 kilobyte: pain brand channels dark energy into your weapon until the metal itself screams with agony, seeking any opportunity to inflict that suffering on others 17:34:39 fire brand makes your sword be on fire. 17:34:54 if you can't see why these could easily be justified as different, i don't know what to tell you 17:35:55 yeah but would a witch do it 17:36:38 the witch explanation is The Worst Thing 17:37:23 Eronarn: The Worst Witch? 17:37:58 which witch is responsible for the hex split, crawl doesn't even have witches anymore, jeez!! 17:38:03 or at least i think they all got cut, right 17:38:06 @??witch 17:38:06 unknown monster: "witch" 17:38:09 @??forest witch 17:38:10 unknown monster: "forest witch" 17:38:13 looks like it 17:38:18 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:23 it has witches' cats though 17:38:35 i think ilsuiw might be described as a water witch somewhere, hmm 17:39:22 she is 17:39:41 insert hexes joke here 17:39:54 hexlos ftw 17:39:56 ############ JOSEPHINE ### An ugly old witch looking for someone to kill 17:40:06 los based on what a witch could see 17:40:20 anyhow, the important thing: a malevolent/benevolent split is the only way i've seen so far to avoid stuff like vampires being great at flaming weapons or triple school silence 17:40:42 both of those are p. bad i m o 17:40:56 also, keeping all the playstyle spells in the right schools 17:42:26 that too 17:44:17 also lets you have at least some charms spells that aren't just 'you get a buff' 17:44:53 not sure why the self/other split was chosen, it's not a strong flavourful or mechanical divide 17:46:53 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:47:31 due: re bikeshedding, i think if the commit messages explained the reasoning behind changes there would be less argument over them. just a thought (i must admit terse commit messages are a pet peeve of mine) 17:48:26 RjY: yes 17:49:06 RjY: not really, actually. you should see some of the silly arguments on the mailing lists because people go "I want to do this for this reason". 17:49:54 so yes, explanations can sometimes help, but they are not an automatic get-out-of-bike-shed-free card. 17:49:54 'keep old recite because you should be a non-magical guy just yelling at enemies to confuse them, also buff it so that it's good for stabbing' 17:50:19 RjY: Also, a lot of bikeshedding occurs for strange things that people don't expect would be contentious. 17:51:37 the difference I see between megabats vs. making things hexes is the latter actually has gameplay implications (like screwing over crusaders/enchanters) 17:52:07 arcane marksmen before branding spells went back to hexes 17:52:09 monqy: yes; the former is just people complaining because it doesn't fit in with their idea of what is right. :) 17:52:21 monqy: tbh i think we are going to have to redo at least one of those classes 17:52:26 regardless of the choices made 17:52:37 yeah 17:52:49 megabats was a "let's change this in response to a recent discussion;" the previous commit was "let's revert an explicit decision without explanation or apparent provocation" 17:52:51 i want to make arcane marksmen different to "an archer with some spells" 17:52:57 I'm kind of confused, that's all 17:53:20 due: i want there to be a charms version and a hex version of AM 17:53:34 Eronarn: I don't have any particular opinion either way. 17:53:45 Sorry, wait, discussion in ##crawl-dev is now binding? 17:54:09 charms: magical projectile, brands; hexes: ranged stab, cause fear 17:54:10 AM is probably most malleable, since the concept was mostly "hybridised RC" 17:54:14 I fully agree with making branding spells hexes and stand behind kilobyte 100%. 17:54:33 why 17:54:35 Eronarn: I'd rather split it into two classes in that case. 17:54:35 cr and en are pretty established playstyles and should be more or less maintained 17:54:51 due: that's fine, not like there is any lack of funny letter combos 17:55:04 Eronarn: having a "you choose your book" thing determine stuff is boooring. 17:55:23 I'd like it if enchanters either weren't pushed so heavily into stabbing or they agreed with themselves that they are indeed stabbers 17:55:32 i don't agree with that at all but okay! 17:55:47 Eronarn: well, look at conjurers. 17:55:53 due: re: binding discussions, were you talking to me? 17:55:59 Eronarn: you look at the log and you go 'oh were you fire or ice?' 17:55:59 TGWi: remove regen from cr 17:56:11 TGWi: yes. 17:56:26 due: oh, that's true 17:56:33 Eronarn: putting two different classes in one is weird because what due just said 17:56:39 as I see it, what current En wants to be is using spells to disable enemies, but really it's a stabbing class 17:56:49 I like the minor magic books though 17:56:50 Eronarn: So having them split into *actual* different classes makes much more sense because this way they're different as opposed to being one name for two possible eventualities. 17:56:51 i don't normaly look at what other people are playing so it doesn't come up often for me 17:57:03 due: well, commits are somewhat binding 17:57:19 TGWi: not really. git revert is cheap and easy. :) 17:57:21 brands were made charms after discussion, now they're hexes again after nothing new has happened 17:57:32 so? 17:57:45 nobody knows why? 17:57:49 this evening, if i have time, i will be merging holy wrath and cleansing flame mechanics. 17:57:56 TGWi: quick, what's some good unused role letter combos 17:58:01 hmm 17:58:06 based partially on a discussion a few weeks ago but primarily on an email back-and-forth with dpeg. 17:58:15 let me consult the current races 17:58:22 Eronarn: I would personally like to split all classes that choose a starting spell book into multiple classes. 17:58:38 i do not know if this is practical or not, but i'll see. 17:58:40 anyway really must go 17:58:44 hoop? lolz (lava orc ??) 17:58:47 starting spell book or starting god 17:59:01 due: having two conjurers is redundant, better to merge the books 17:59:05 more so with wizards 17:59:05 but I figure that it should be based on playstyle 17:59:23 TGWi: make wizards just start with one gigantic book with no overlapping schools 17:59:24 like Pr[Zin] and Pr[Yred] are different but Cj[ice] and Cj[fire] not so much 17:59:26 splitting starting gods is definitely cool though 17:59:50 Pr => preacher, yred start = DK only 18:00:25 well transparency is good. it'd be nice if all discussion took place in the open so us mere mortals could follow it :-) 18:00:26 HOME (Hill Orc Messiah) 18:00:26 hopr -> messiah 18:00:28 ha 18:01:30 !apt 18:01:30 Could not understand "!apt" 18:01:32 !apt crossbow 18:01:32 Xbows: Dr: -1, Dr[black]: -1, Ce: 1!, DD: 1!, DE: -1, DG: -1, DS: -1, Gh: -1, Dr[green]: -1, Dr[grey]: -1, Ha: 1!, HE: 0, HO: -1, Hu: 0, Ke: 1!, Ko: 1!, Mf: -2, Mi: 1!, Dr[mottled]: -1, MD: 1!, Mu: -2, Na: -1, Og: -3, Dr[pale]: -1, Dr[purple]: -1, Dr[red]: -1, SE: 0, Sp: 0, Tr: -4*, Vp: -2, Dr[white]: -1, Dr[yellow]: -1 18:01:37 RjY: most discussion does take place in the open :) 18:02:16 RjY: but enforcing it as a rule is a limiting factor. some things happening privately is better (ie, code-specific "how do I do this?" back-and-forths between myself and Enne or Darshan) 18:02:26 hmm, not that much interesting stuff left 18:02:35 I don't particularly enjoy airing the fact that I'm shite with C++ ;) 18:02:57 At? SEAt, SpAt, DrAt 18:03:19 fully behind DrAt 18:03:52 HEAt 18:04:29 feat 18:04:49 haat 18:05:48 te: hate, mite, mute, Nate 18:06:11 so we can have keen ogre Seth and keen ogre Nate 18:06:22 mute ogre Nate 18:06:29 thieves?? 18:07:18 add those back 18:07:21 al = alchemist, of.c 18:07:33 deal, heal 18:07:38 seal 18:08:05 deal, heal, seal 18:08:10 that's all I think 18:08:23 implement lava orcs 18:08:38 at = arcane tracker? a bti boring though :( 18:08:59 accordion thief 18:09:07 or trapper maybe 18:10:09 trickster? 18:10:19 what's a trickster though 18:10:20 LL: cell, hall, hell, hull, mill, mull, sell 18:11:15 trickster is a nemelex title, isn't it? 18:11:26 !lg * title=trickster 18:11:28 No games for * (title=trickster). 18:11:30 hm 18:12:03 {"Unlucky %s", "Pannier", "Jester", "Fortune-Teller", 18:12:07 "Soothsayer", "Magus", "Cardsharp", "Hand of Fortune"}, 18:12:30 maybe torturer if we played up nec/hex 18:13:00 monqy: i think some of those are ash titles now too aren't they 18:13:05 probably should fix that 18:13:26 {"Star-crossed", "Cursed", "Initiated", "Seer", 18:13:29 "Soothsayer", "Oracle", "Illuminatus", "Omniscient"}, 18:13:58 soothsayer 18:13:59 so yes 18:14:08 star-crossed? really? 18:15:09 TGWi: 18:15:10 –adjective 18:15:11 thwarted or opposed by the stars; ill-fated: star-crossed lovers. 18:15:17 I know what it means 18:15:22 he's nailed to the sky, after all 18:15:30 that's the penance title, yeah? 18:15:35 yes 18:16:16 (i did the ash titles, it's why they own so much) 18:31:01 03j-p-e-g * r346ac24ae4aa 10/crawl-ref/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Allow predefining several spells for randart books in map defs. 18:31:03 03j-p-e-g * r3169ac443afe 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson4.des: Apply randbook multi-spell definitions to the spellcasting tutorial. 18:31:05 03j-p-e-g * r90bfaad60d60 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/randbook.txt: Also replace Enchantment -> Charms for adjective randbook entries. 18:31:10 03j-p-e-g * re86e78609b44 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Document that some randbook map tags only work for themed books. 18:38:27 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:20 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:21 forest wyrms... :( 18:46:29 why :(? 18:49:48 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:54 due: the order in fight.cc goes: print attack verb, do trample, do damage (which prints kill messages) 18:55:28 i want to have the attack verb vary based on whether the trampled creature lives 18:55:49 i won't know whether it's alive until after the monster death message has already been printed, though 18:56:41 so making it work the way i want would require bypassing the normal flow in a pretty annoying way 18:58:40 argh that sounds horrendous 18:58:51 yes 18:59:39 they're pretty close to working otherwise though! plant breath is great though it still places stuff at the wrong coordinates sometimes 18:59:47 not sure what is up with that 19:00:18 also need to code them to not breathe if the target is already surrounded by plants, or already adjacent to them 19:02:57 what's the trampling situation? 19:09:16 pointless_: the thing i am coding is to allow trampling into the space of an enemy, if you killed them 19:09:37 and to autokill toadstools &etc. when trampling 19:10:20 right now if you couldn't trample an enemy out of a square, but the enemy dies and therefore its square is free, you just kill it and don't trample 19:11:10 well if the main goal is just to auto-kill toadstools, you could silently kill them prior to the moving in _handle_monster_move 19:11:15 i think what i will probably have to do is add a new function for the attack (will_trample), check that to determine stuff 19:11:43 03kilobyte * re71fe38a984b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/randbook.txt: Likewise, move old Ench adjectives to Hexes. 19:11:45 03kilobyte * r96eb05ed74eb 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Make Silence Hex/Air. 19:11:46 03kilobyte * r80628ef283f4 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Update a comment. 19:11:50 Ignite Poison fails to purge the poison from the caster... (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3354) by Twilight 19:11:59 pointless_: i actually got it working fine for the autokilling in do_trample, but the problem is i want this particular monster (forest wyrm) to bite if it's not trampling, otherwise, to overrun (as its attack verb) 19:12:03 is invis still hex/charm? 19:12:55 yes, the Hex component is already a stretch 19:13:26 witches cast invis all the time 19:14:12 well my question is about the scope of the trampling, do you want this to happen just for whatever you're auto-killing? in which case I'd argue you should just auto-kill silently, and print no message about the attack 19:14:23 invis flavour: This spell hides a creature from the sight of others. 19:14:51 pointless_: no, that's the problem - it should also affect things you kill normally 19:15:15 so that if you kill a goblin via trampling, you end up in its square, even if you couldn't have trampled it out of the square 19:15:49 which moves you when you wouldn't expect that 19:16:32 kilobyte: on the contrary: if you are doing a trample attack, you are trying to move into their square. you should move into that square if they are no longer in it, whether they were trampled out, teleported away, squashed underneath you, etc. 19:18:19 03kilobyte * r9e49f6b3bd44 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Update Ignite Poison's description. 19:18:26 well the messaging problem you are having, is that forest wyrms trample sometimes and bite othertimes? I guess the idea is they only trample plants? 19:20:37 pointless_: right now, trample happens on AT_TRAMPLE; this means if you want a trampling monster it has to have at least two attacks (or only trample when attacking) 19:20:57 i've added AF_OVERRUN as an experiment, to permit trampling as an attack flavor rather than an attack type 19:21:09 so they have AT_BITE, AF_OVERRUN 19:21:54 ideally this would be a normal bite, unless they're eligible to trample, in which case they trample 19:23:03 so if it's like this: DP@.P its attacks would be trample + autokill the P, trample the player back, then bite the player (because it can't push the player through plants) 19:23:37 it's purely the messaging that is a problem at this point, i have the rest all working 19:24:10 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:26:01 so if you are set on refactoring trampling to be an attack flavor, then just add whatever special case you need for the messaging 19:27:40 i want to do this in a cleaner way than having loads of special cases :) like, i'd have to not have it use hurt() at all, unless i modified hurt 19:27:47 which i definitely don't want to do 19:28:22 I mean, is there actually anything to discuss here, or are you just complaining that the code base is pretty messy? 19:28:48 don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with that, just wondering 19:29:08 no, nothing to discuss, i see many ways that it could be fixed just none that i feel like doing because they're all so messy 19:29:14 and i'm not going to refactor fight.cc, so 19:51:20 kilobyte: why are brands hex now? 19:53:20 TGWi: witches 19:53:30 witches like flaming weapons 19:53:37 but not levitation 19:56:03 a witch hexed the ench split and now it sucks :( 19:59:01 -!- kronusdark has quit [Quit: kronusdark] 20:00:19 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 20:37:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:38 sup y'all. 20:39:28 I've been out of the DCSS loop for about a year and want to get back into playing + patching. Is there a tracker or roadmap now that I could start looking through? 20:39:57 ?? mantis 20:39:57 mantis[1/1]: The replacement for sourceforge, mantis can be found at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis 20:40:07 excellent, ty 20:40:26 there's a wiki on there too with a ton of stuff 20:40:31 and there's always the development wiki at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start and the recent changes list at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?do=recent&id=start 20:41:29 lovely! I might check out some bugs and spray some WD40 on my C skills 21:06:44 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:51 timecircuits: dpeg posted a roadmap to the mailing list a few days ago for 0.8 21:47:00 i think that's a list of things that specific people are already working on though 21:47:03 not entirely sure. 22:00:25 due: some of it is definitely up in the air, like the DS stuff 22:10:32 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:51 -!- purge has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:02 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:51 so, because this randomly came up in crawl again 22:19:58 can we fix nagas/centaurs getting a bonus to shields 22:20:02 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:26 -!- TGWi is now known as TGWmike 22:21:55 this only happens because the shield calc uses player_evasion_size_factor(), which uses PSIZE_BODY rather than PSIZE_TORSO 22:24:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:34 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:52 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4934-g9e49f6b 23:38:44 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:08 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4934-g9e49f6b (32)