00:02:50 still a good name though 00:03:44 maybe the movie was named after the book in crawl 00:18:23 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:05 other memes not 300 yet, partial list: lightning-wielding Nikolas, ogres being like onions 00:23:55 roguelikes: not 300 yet 00:45:05 random note: war dogs, wolves, and wargs have almost identical stats 00:45:12 we should change them 00:45:35 wargs are awesome and poison-resistant 00:45:41 wolves should go 00:45:52 @??wolf 00:45:53 wolf (15h) | Speed: 17 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/15 | Damage: 8, 2, 2 | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 100. 00:45:54 @??war dog 00:45:54 war dog (10h) | Speed: 17 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 4/15 | Damage: 12 | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(16) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 169. 00:45:56 if you want to put in that pack stuff, use it for war dogs 00:45:56 @??warg 00:45:57 warg (16h) | Speed: 13 | HD: 4 | Health: 16-36 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 12, 3, 3 | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(32), 03poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 101. 00:46:19 and/or have wargs use it in packs and spawn packs in D 00:46:33 yeah, get rid of wolves 00:47:30 putting in new behavior to keep a redundant monster around is silly when the others could use it just as well 00:49:40 @??hound 00:49:41 hound (08h) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Damage: 6 | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(12) | XP: 42. 00:50:23 hmm, not sure i'd actually want to cut any of them 00:50:32 but i think i would want to see them made more different in stats 00:50:37 like make wargs HD 6 or more 00:50:44 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:55 @??bear 00:50:56 bear (07U) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 22-40 | AC/EV: 4/4 | Damage: 10, 6, 6 | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 199 | Sp: berserker rage. 00:51:50 changing where they spawn could also help, like maybe only wolves in lair and not war dogs 00:51:54 (rename them to war hounds imo) 01:08:24 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:30 hi folk 01:38:50 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:14 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:15 !tell MarvinPA When you upload patches can you enforce wrapping at 72 characters for commit body? In vim, :set tw=72 (though git should feed it stuff automatically). Otherwise it scrolls off the screen in git log. 02:04:15 due: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 02:06:35 eeew, vim 02:07:29 !tell kilobyte Re: hashing locations of invis monters. Go with whatever option you feel best. It's really, honestly, totally beyond my ability to comprehend. I'm hoping to learn from your example. :) 02:07:29 due: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:14:30 Er. 02:14:35 Sticks to Snakes is no longer summoning. 02:39:19 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:22 hii 02:51:33 hi 02:52:55 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:01 -!- mspang has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:01 due: at this rate, we might actually revamp all the crappy spells before .8, even if it's not an official goal 03:08:13 Eronarn: if that's what you like, do it. I've coded plenty of stuff not on the 0.8 todo :) 03:08:51 galehar: mostly i code stuff that catches my fancy at any particular moment 03:09:12 for example, the recite patch is because i played a zinite randomly and it was awful and i looked at the code and hated how buggy it was 03:09:34 some guy in the crpg addict comment section says he hate nethack and plays crawl :) 03:09:36 => two months later... 03:10:13 swarms are probably up next, because i want to do a new tmut spell based on them 03:13:34 * due about to rename more giant monsters! 03:13:59 giant ant -> worker ant; giant beetle -> goliath beetle. Hopefully these will be less controversial and will mask the baseball bat fiasco. 03:14:38 due: while you're at it, war dog => war hound 03:18:14 how about a war warg :) 03:19:29 galehar: but I don't see that nethack is that much worse than dcss in the "killing the character" departement. I mean "pretty good game that got down to level 4"? wtf? you get down to dlvl 4 in less than 10 minutes. I've been brutally murdered by crawl after playing for more than an hour! more than once! 03:32:56 bhaak: sure. The main difference is about unspoiled players. NH is much more deadly to them, but that's a design choice. 03:33:36 due: good renaming. 03:33:57 also, I had a great idea for bats: let's call them kilobats ;) 03:34:42 * due would be sorely tempted, but... ;) 03:42:02 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 03:43:26 -!- Eronarn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:40 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:08 Behavior when using a Water card with plants around is strange (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3291) by elliptic 03:51:49 03due * r58844af5b0b6 10/crawl-ref/ (22 files in 12 dirs): Giant ants -> worker ants (coolio, Kekitalo). 03:51:50 03due * r9a3c28fdd743 10/crawl-ref/ (18 files in 9 dirs): Giant beetle -> goliath beetle. (coolio) 04:06:14 greensnark or enne around, perchance? 04:06:43 * greensnark moos. 04:06:52 greensnark: mind a quick PM? 04:07:06 Go ahead 04:20:10 :| 04:24:48 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:44 due: in your crusade, you forgot to s/giant/jotunn/ :p 04:38:45 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:39:05 kilobyte: jotunn? 04:39:16 There are still a few giant monsters left, unfortunately. 04:39:57 sadly, there are no proper names for fire giants, other than "sons of Muspell" 04:40:22 that's place (Muspelheim), not an individual 04:41:11 frost giants come from Niflheim, but are the same species, just a different land 04:42:02 Giant new, gecko, slug, leech, frog, toad, amoeba, eyeball, orange brain, mosquito, blowfly, cocckroach, centipede, mite, spore, goldfish. 04:42:05 *newt. 04:42:21 Eyeball and orange brain should stay. 04:42:27 Giant mite -> mite? 04:43:24 kilobyte: no need to pull from the same mythology: jotun and nephilim/anakim 04:43:27 "floating spore" would explain how it travels 04:43:46 nephilim is plural, though 04:45:12 not sure how to depluralize it (or if that's even possible) 04:45:26 it's not really possible from what i recall 04:45:40 anakim -> anak is problematic as Anak is a biblical character 04:45:45 so it would have to be anakite 04:47:12 wonder if we could get away with 'metal slug' 04:47:24 iron slug 04:47:27 and make it cyan 04:47:50 of course that would probably imply a bit too much toughness 04:47:55 or at least indicate 04:48:03 "slug"? 04:48:28 slimy slug, and implement trails 04:48:45 there's a half finished patch that does that 04:49:02 oh, or ravenous slug, and make it eat plants and corpses 04:49:18 yak slug :p 04:49:32 (as a smaller elephant slug) 04:50:50 giant leech => grappler leech; desc = "It's surprisingly good at wrestling for not having any arms." 04:51:17 Eronarn: <333 i like that idea 04:51:30 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:39 grappling might be better than grappler though 04:54:00 giant goldfish => sturgeon (i <3 sturgeons) 04:54:30 giant frog => 'ambush frog' and it tries to leap out of water at you 04:56:12 giant amoeba => megamoeba 04:56:44 * bhaak throws "jumbo frog" into the round 04:57:31 giant blowfly => drop, i don't feel they add anything 04:59:24 giant mosquito => thirsty mosquito; ps add an undead 'vampiric mosquito' while we're at it 04:59:44 mosquito is by definition vampiric 05:00:04 better: "vampire mosquito" and give them a vampiric attack. 05:00:37 due: problem is that people will think they are actually vampire-related/undead if you have vampire in the name 05:00:43 cf vampire bat 05:01:17 well, we can make them undead 05:01:21 (i am fine with having only undead vampire ones and no normal ones fwiw) 05:01:22 but i don't see the point of having a plain mosquito 05:02:00 could just remove mosquitos altogether 05:02:25 "This plain mosquito drank the blood of a vampire and gained its curse. It's gorged itself with blood until it's the size of a small horse, and it's thirsty for more." 05:02:26 making them undead and vampiric is pretty cool though 05:03:06 due: we could add normal-mosquitos in as a swarm, also, once i get that done 05:03:25 @??giant mosquito 05:03:26 giant mosquito (16y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 1 | Health: 3-8 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 1007(disease) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(4) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 8. 05:03:40 you'd want to up their health by a lot if you were giving them a vampiric attack 05:03:45 sure 05:03:52 i would buff them a lot, i think 05:03:52 @??giant blowfly 05:03:53 giant blowfly (15y) | Speed: 19 | HD: 5 | Health: 17-39 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Damage: 13 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 179. 05:03:58 or 05:04:00 give 'em blowfly stats, drop blowlfies 05:04:02 yes 05:04:03 that 05:05:21 giant mite => macromite (it's the name of a blog i read by a mite researcher, but it sounds totally awesome) 05:05:40 i think just plain "mite" is fine 05:06:28 or, megamite! 05:06:36 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:07:05 @?? 05:07:05 Usage: @? 05:07:09 @??giant mite 05:07:10 giant mite (04s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/7 | Damage: 508(poison) | Res: 06magic(2) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 10. 05:07:30 giant cockroach => filthy roach, and give them disease on their attack 05:07:59 plain "mite" doesn't sound like the sort of thing that would hit for 5 damage and poison, at least to me 05:08:58 @??snake 05:08:58 snake (09S) | Speed: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Damage: 508(poison) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13. 05:09:03 @??giant ant 05:09:03 giant ant (05a) | Speed: 12 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 808(poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | XP: 34. 05:09:23 giant mites look kind of weak and not very special 05:09:27 Eronarn: disease that early is deadly 05:09:43 EVIL mite 05:09:55 I assume eronarn meant sickness rather than rotting 05:10:00 yes 05:10:12 which isn't deadly but would be annoying 05:10:16 sickness would be pretty harsh that early 05:10:22 chars already spend too much time resting on d:1 05:10:58 monqy: but they show up on d:1 05:11:06 @??giant mite 05:11:07 giant mite (04s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/7 | Damage: 508(poison) | Res: 06magic(2) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 10. 05:11:10 @??giant cockroach 05:11:10 giant cockroach (07s) | Speed: 12 | HD: 1 | Health: 3-7 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2 | Res: 06magic(1) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1. 05:11:11 one of the most dangerous things that can show up (rarely) on d:1 05:11:20 as opposed a snake? 05:11:27 snake doesn't show up on d:1 05:11:31 i mean 05:11:34 it's not "giant snake" 05:11:45 well, some snakes are large :) 05:11:55 mites are pretty small afaik 05:11:56 due: medium snake 05:11:58 and how many players are going to know what a mite is to know that it has to be large? 05:12:11 "engorged mite"? 05:12:15 Eronarn: <3 05:12:20 uh, lots of people know what mites are I think 05:12:23 what about just making them something that isn't a mite 05:12:54 plague is a good descriptor for verminy creatures, maybe not plague mite though that's a bit overselling them 05:13:14 save plague for something that doesn't show up on d1 05:13:20 ye 05:13:22 megamite 05:13:31 marmite 05:13:32 then we can have vegemites too :D 05:13:46 mighty mite 05:14:08 "might", with phase shift 05:14:17 is poisonous mite too boring 05:14:18 and blink 05:14:19 yes 05:14:43 here's an idea: acid instead of poison, 'corrosive tick' 05:14:53 "lyme" 05:15:16 no wait 05:15:21 we will call them zymes 05:15:35 so we can have ancient zymes later! 05:15:37 due: save that for giant amoeba!! 05:15:45 er 05:15:47 why? 05:16:01 giant amoeba are jelly-like 05:16:40 due: amoebas are cells 05:16:49 hmmm 05:17:01 they're only Js because whoever added them made them one 05:17:33 in fact they have pretty much nothing to do with the other Js 05:17:41 they aren't slimy, acid-y, eat-stuff-y, etc. 05:17:52 true 05:18:28 if ancient zyme is on X, you could have 'virulent zyme' on x 05:18:40 giants ignore silence for no obvious reason (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3292) by KiloByte 05:18:41 I will thin kabout all of these 05:18:44 later! 05:18:46 * due sleeps. 05:18:48 bie! 05:18:54 kilobyte: you don't know the reason? 05:18:58 it's because they're tall!! 05:19:47 that'd be a reason for being able to, say, walk through deep water 05:20:29 kilobyte: silence is a sphere, and they're taller than it, so their head sticks out the top 05:20:42 (i am just preemptively making an argument that someone in the thread will) 05:20:49 this would suggest they're needle-thin 05:27:38 kilobyte: I always assumed that giants weren't actually casting spells 05:27:51 just moulding a ball of fire out of something or other and throwing it at you 05:27:54 stuff like that 05:28:16 however I don't particularly care whether silence works on them 05:29:06 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:29:51 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:18 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:37 03kilobyte * r4634eb5f6bf1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: Make the Vestibule more friendly to autoexplore. 06:42:06 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 06:44:55 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:30 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:40 Hi! 07:00:49 hi :) 07:23:40 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:50 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:45 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:29 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:59:50 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:26 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:24:41 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:47 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:31 the graphical version tutorial 'a' have a typo when you re-enter Dungeon: 1; first blue square: heppen (instead of happen) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3294) by imre 08:40:31 Daeva's halo affects a Slime Creature but not me (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3293) by b0rsuk 08:48:02 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:42 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:16 <3 lots of discussion on the tutorial 10:10:22 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:35 !coffee Keskitalo 10:19:35 * Henzell hands Keskitalo a mug of cappuccino, brewed by Jiyva. 10:29:06 I have updated my proposal for GDR 10:29:09 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdFNLVXlqMkM2a0V1V2hBQWZTNWN5ZEE&output=html 10:29:30 (bAC - 2) * 2.5 * min(1 + skill / (3 * (bAC - 2)), 2) 10:30:18 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:51 galehar: I still don't understand why you want to nerf heavy armour 10:31:49 haha, I didn't realise before but 0.6 heavy armour is hilarious 10:31:55 how many times has heavy armour been alternately nerfed and buffed now? 10:32:00 I think getting 40% GDR with no skill investment when you luck out an early plate makes half the game trivial 10:32:04 it doesn't 10:32:22 and what is this "luck out"? early plate is common and always has been 10:32:24 MDFi has an easy game. HaAM in plate isn't however 10:32:34 Ham in plate mm 10:32:51 MDBe in plate should be fairly easy, and it is, but so are lots of combos that don't even need to get plate 10:33:14 heavy armour IMO is relatively easy if you play a strong combo but it's still weak if you don't 10:33:44 ie, the right level 10:34:45 galehar: I'm just not sure you understand how bad it was to use heavy armour at start in 0.7, and you are suggesting reverting to that 10:36:02 ok, so maybe the numbers still need tweaking. Let's start higher than 0.7. I just think GDR is what makes heavy armour great and that it should depend on the armour skill. 10:36:24 do you think heavy armour is stronger than casting, then? because I think the opposite 10:36:50 the whole point of the 0.7/0.8 armour buffs were to stop armour skill affecting GDR though 10:36:53 galehar: *everything* else depends on armour skill 10:36:57 it seems a bit early to revert that 10:38:04 GDR is an innate property of the armour, AC is a measure of how well protected you are from enemy attacks 10:38:24 casmith789: I also would like to change the spellcasting penalty so that you can't overcome it with high magic skills 10:38:27 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdDdsS1lJM29TMXh3NVVQa1psY2RiZlE&hl=en&output=html 10:38:50 the basic idea is that you're trading reliable defense for unreliable spellcasting 10:38:57 what's this? percentage chance of failure? 10:39:03 and maybe try to find a use for the middle armours 10:39:07 yes 10:39:33 the middle armours are mostly strictly worse than dragon armours so i can't imagine anyone will ever want to use them 10:39:36 huh, 1% fail on leather sounds promising. People don't really do much heavy armour casting at the moment anyway and this would kill them dead 10:40:01 is this based on armour skill? 10:40:07 yes 10:40:25 you'd need 20 armour for a perfect spell in a robe to be viable in chain 10:40:58 so this is a separate spell failure check as has been discussed before? 10:41:13 oh, not added on? 10:41:19 elliptic: yes, somewhat 10:41:55 somewhat? 10:41:56 for high success chance, adding it or making a separate roll is almost the same 10:41:59 yes 10:42:06 adding it is simpler 10:42:35 casmith789: can't you cast at 90%? 10:42:42 not really 10:42:49 it is? I thought normal spell failure was checked in some ugly way with comparing some number to 3d(some other number) 10:42:57 I mean sure for normal spells but if you're casting level 6 spells you get bad miscasts 10:42:59 that's not so easy to add failure rates for 10:43:05 but anyway, that's not important 10:43:29 galehar: people generally agree that you really want almost all spells you use to be excellent 10:43:50 great is okay for some spells 10:44:01 but anything worse than that is seriously bad 10:44:26 because of miscasts? 10:44:49 because of miscast effects being more severe, yes 10:44:55 and general unreliability 10:45:10 a 10% chance of wasting a turn and some MP is pretty poor for most spells 10:45:28 well, general unreliability is exactly the point of the proposal. As I said, trade reliable defense for unreliable spellcasting. 10:45:28 better for stuff that can be used effectively before engaging in battle 10:45:44 -!- bhaak is now known as robbje` 10:45:50 -!- robbje` is now known as bhaak 10:45:58 armour isn't reliable defense 10:46:01 galehar: if you get into hundreds of fights (which you do), that means you could feasibly miscast 3 times in a row. This could seriously damage your character's health :) 10:46:02 that's the problem 10:46:21 the medium armours you are trying to get people to use need their GDR increased for that to be the case 10:46:51 chain mail is currently 20% GDR... that's barely noticeable 10:47:09 elliptic: if GDR stays independent of skill, but casting does not, wouldn't that do the trick? 10:47:27 -!- cw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:36 dpeg: that's already the case? 10:47:37 dpeg: people would still never use chain mail 10:48:27 chain mail is so bad though compared to other armours eg ice dragon 10:48:33 well, I think we all agree taht chain would ever only be an intermediate affair... 10:48:39 ... but you tell it won't even be that? 10:48:56 I can't see any reason why you'd ever use chain mail unless you got some crazy uber randart :) 10:49:17 and scale? 10:49:32 the thing is that chain or scale don't actually provide better defenses than robes 10:49:33 I think I did that once... with a caster, naturally 10:49:38 at least not significantly 10:49:57 so as long as the penalties are substantial, they won't see use 10:50:19 with chain, scale, ring etc you get ac instead of ev. You get less AC than EV unless you have high armour skill, at which point you're in plate. May as well wear a robe 10:50:30 my potential armour characters just stay in a robe until they find plate, yeah 10:50:32 GDR is virtually insignificant at low levels 10:51:12 * dpeg gives up 10:51:16 problem has no solution 10:51:27 there is 10:51:30 nerf EV ;) 10:51:40 um how would that solve it? 10:51:45 I'm joking 10:51:52 EV is OP anyway 10:51:53 it would just mean people used plate more and scale less ;p 10:51:55 Overdue for a nerf! 10:52:02 greensnark is OP 10:52:06 dpeg: well, I've suggested buffing GDR on midrange armour 10:52:25 thanks for the comments guys, I'll play some more heavy armour chars and go back to the drawing board (maybe) 10:52:26 And casmith789 insists that everything is fine, but since he also thinks Elbereth is fine, there's only so far you can trust him :) 10:52:26 elliptic: with a formula? 10:52:40 yes, if GDR was similar to plate this may be a solution. You wouldn't get as much AC as plate so it would be a tradeoff 10:52:48 greensnark: ??? 10:53:10 I would oppose adding Elbereth to crawl. 10:53:16 (mithril) chain mail is useful in NetHack! (seriously, though, it seems hard to make every single sort of armour useful in any roguelike; perhaps you could make armour altogether much rarer so people had to use what they could get) 10:53:39 dpeg: I think I suggested something of the form GDR = C * (bAC-2)^(1/2), for a suitable constant C 10:53:51 ais523: monsters wear armour, you see. And making it rarer would just boost people playing in robes really 10:54:09 because robe effectively == naked 10:55:41 come to think of it, I can't even think of an RPG where more than two or three sorts of armour are useful (not counting situations where armour is balanced by cost or progress in the game and you repeatedly buy increasingly better armour as the game goes on) 10:56:26 dpeg: and I do like the idea of having spellcasting penalties that just depend on your armour EVP and armour skill; I'd probably want the numbers to be a bit lower than what galehar currently has, but that's a matter of tweaking 10:57:51 elliptic: thanks, I'll look into it. 10:58:04 and also your formula 10:58:11 for GDR 10:58:20 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:06 I am a tiny little bit partial to constant GDR, but AFAIU making GDR relevant is much more important. (This includes relevant early on (low EVP) and not overpowered for high EVP) 11:05:03 I've made a table with elliptic's formula 11:05:04 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdFNLVXlqMkM2a0V1V2hBQWZTNWN5ZEE&hl=en&output=html 11:05:59 galehar: thanks 11:06:17 so, how does C=15 looks? 11:06:21 C=15 would probably be my pick of those, yes :) 11:06:59 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:50 though I guess that's a buff to plate, which doesn't particularly need it 11:08:34 so maybe C=14 11:08:41 _Found a staircase to the Lair. 11:08:44 nice try, d:14 11:08:50 oh wrong channel 11:08:55 I thought that bug was fixed? 11:09:00 nope 11:10:00 -!- bhaak is now known as hase` 11:10:11 -!- hase` is now known as bhaak 11:15:01 MarvinPA: get in touch with me if/when you want to talk about DS. 11:15:21 sure, i replied to your comments on the wiki 11:15:56 and the patches so far are on mantis, i'd appreciate some ideas for powered by pain if you or anyone else gets a chance though :) 11:16:07 dpeg: have you seen the last @play? 11:16:16 elliptic: about the spell failure chance we talked earlier, the spell_fail function (spl-cast.cc:364) returns a number between 0 and 100. Easy to add the armour and shield penalty at the end of it. 11:16:17 it was mentioned in the Tavern, so I assume so 11:16:32 bhaak: where he drools about item identification? :) 11:16:42 yepp 11:16:48 I knew you would like it 11:17:11 bhaak: one player recently told us that Crawl has no id game =) 11:17:43 took a page long to describe in details how it's irrelevant :) 11:17:51 yes 11:18:19 I still always die with too much un-id junk 11:18:45 bhaak: that's probably because you're used to not using escape items 11:18:48 and to not identifying things 11:19:18 I try to always id on the downstairs, but I often forget 11:20:27 I don't think a roguelike /needs/ an ID game to be successful; Pokémon Mystery Dungeon doesn't have one, all items are pre-IDed 11:20:43 but that's because it's mostly based on tactics 11:20:46 galehar: but that isn't the actual failure chance! that number is compared to random2avg(100,3) to determine success (spl-cast.cc:1194) 11:21:41 PMD's balanced the exact opposite way to Crawl, in terms of combat; it's rarely possible to heal up between one fight and another, so you're more or less continuously in combat 11:23:09 ais523: which is an awesome concept 11:23:33 yep, it also has not just one clock forcing you forwards, but three 11:23:55 and has the weirdest solution to persistent levels/nonpersistent levels I've seen; you can't backtrack from one level to a previous one ever 11:24:09 ais523: Rogue? 11:24:15 oh, forgot about that 11:24:44 the main flaw of PMD is that it was marketed at children, so they have a main story mode which for the first 85% or so of the game is insultingly easy 11:25:00 but there's an optional location there which is a true roguelike, and insanely difficult 11:25:04 only 85%? 11:25:09 oh 11:25:17 elliptic: right, the averaging of the roll makes the statistic funky :( 11:25:20 upsy: it can get a little tricky towards the end 11:26:02 galehar: yeah... still possible to modify it of course, just messier 11:26:14 ais523: oh, they never hold my interest for very long 11:26:53 upsy: yes, that's the problem 11:27:04 it makes the game hard to recommend because there's so much tedium involved before you get to the good bit 11:27:09 although the plot is a) excellent, and b) hilarious 11:27:34 which makes up for the easy difficulty early, and the tendency to repeat cutscenes in flashbacks, sometimes less than a minute after they first happened 11:29:34 ok have to ho 11:29:35 the character you get being based on a personality quiz is bad too 11:29:35 go 11:29:39 bye guys 11:29:41 -!- galehar has quit [] 11:35:46 MarvinPA: still here? 11:36:25 yup 11:37:17 MarvinPA: where can I read about your questions on further/new DS mutations? I agree with what you've done already. 11:37:41 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demonspawn_brainstorming#more_suggestions_rob 11:37:50 that's the one i had a look at implementing 11:38:05 saw that you approved of it, and it's one of the ones i think is most interesting as well :) 11:38:35 cool 11:39:13 MarvinPA: do you agree that getting hit for 30 damage in one go should yield more MP than being hit 30 times for 1 damage? (just asking) 11:39:23 i think so, yeah 11:39:45 ok, so we want something non-linear in damage 11:40:11 would also seem odd to get MP up from being poisoned :) 11:40:44 maybe (dam^2)/C MP back for some C? 11:40:56 plus randomisation 11:41:06 it possibly should also depend on your MHP, I guess? 11:41:31 dpeg: yeah, I meant that as an expected value 11:41:36 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 11:42:02 MarvinPA: do we want fancy? Powered by pain could give you more MP than you can take in (ie. >maxMP) although that'd deplete really fast. 11:42:21 making it a straight ratio that improves as you level seems weak at lower XL 11:42:34 yeah, it is, that's why i want ideas :P 11:42:38 since you take less damage 11:42:45 as well as regain less MP on that damage 11:42:52 level could also translates to chance that it triggers 11:42:57 tgwi: that's why I suggested it depend on MHP 11:43:01 s/XL/mutation level/ 11:43:11 where each individual act is gthe same 11:43:27 well, you don't want to encourage people to have less mhp either 11:43:57 I think it would be hard to really do that :P 11:43:58 we want to encourage them to use spells... big ones 11:44:27 "if only this orc warlord would hit a bit harder, I could cast another IOOD" 11:46:47 MarvinPA: got some ideas, will add them to the wiki. Food now,. 11:46:58 cool, thanks :) 11:50:00 dpeg: chances are you won't be using iood if you're in melee with an orc warlord :P 11:50:26 there's consensus that sqrt(2) for diagonal moves is insane, right? 11:50:55 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 11:50:59 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:13 TGWi: without sqrt(2) for diagonal attacks it makes no sense from a gameplay point of view; with sqrt(2) for diagonal attacks it becomes even more insanely unintuitive 12:06:09 03kilobyte * rabfcdf88ca11 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/elf.des: Remove a distinct piece of rock wall from an Elf loot vault. 12:06:11 03kilobyte * rad7b41c261ec 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make skeletal warriors obey silence. 12:51:04 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:51 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:11 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03:07 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:49 hehe, cool: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=404 13:21:57 pity I have no clue about maps ;) 13:26:24 I hope people will fill the map... else I'll draw a room :) 13:33:41 haha, that's awesome 14:12:24 Disconnected bubbles still exist in orc. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3295) by casmith789 14:33:33 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:48:06 iii 14:52:55 Hi due 15:43:40