00:06:17 -!- hoody_ has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:23:33 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:42 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:53 Teleport stuck me in a zigurat entrance early on in the game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3265) by ZeuglinRush 01:41:59 I'm back 01:42:01 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:42:11 greensnark: :D I know! I love the word "shriek". 01:42:40 due: What about silence, though? 01:42:49 Perhaps it merely wriggles when silenced? 01:42:50 greensnark: Yes, it's been raised. 01:43:00 going to be flashing lights, etc, instead. 01:43:08 Aha 01:43:10 had to go out though so going to fix it now 01:43:18 The effect of noisy will be the same, though. 01:43:31 Well, noisy does nothing if silenced 01:43:51 yes, I know 01:44:01 forthcoming fake_noisy will resolve this issue. 01:45:14 so it will physically actually still make noise 01:45:24 but flavour will be that it flashes and thus this is what wakes monsters us 01:45:25 *up 01:48:07 greensnark: You wrote noise_t? 01:48:18 Yes 01:48:27 noise_player_msg is currently unused? 01:48:50 I can't find any reference to it in the source code. 01:49:08 Yeah, because I decided to leave player messaging with the old system for now 01:49:12 Okay 01:49:16 hooray that makes it easier fo rme :D 02:00:42 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:24 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:12:19 I love that noise functions are in shout.cc, not noise.cc. 02:12:30 And of course, so are blood scentings. 02:12:32 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:20 moin 02:24:03 03greensnark * rc3209b6a252a 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: [3257] Fix trees being immune to fire and lightning. 02:29:21 !coffee Zaba 02:29:21 * Henzell hands Zaba a mug of caffè breve, brewed by Gastronok. 02:29:51 greensnark: huh, how did that logic change? 02:30:30 The tree thing? Looks like it was accidentally inverted logic when kb added swamp trees 02:30:39 ahhh 02:30:53 wheee new .cc file! :D 02:34:12 due, where? 02:34:15 * Zaba gets the shotgun 02:34:43 Zaba: I'm making one 02:34:58 for what? 02:35:05 Orb-related code. 02:35:15 Specifically so that I don't need to duplicate code in six different places. 02:35:19 aha 02:35:37 and I saw no point adding it to another file when there's intent to add new orb effects, so i started a new one 02:38:50 03due * r386b557d3b1d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Fix orb pickup noise when silenced. 02:41:10 @??ophan 02:41:11 ophan (05G) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 74-117 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1852 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), holy flames. 02:41:25 orphan 02:41:31 I cannot read it as anything else :P 02:41:37 :D 02:41:49 plural of ophan is ophanim right 02:41:52 Yes. 02:42:16 no rfire? 02:42:17 Do we have cherubim and seraphim too? 02:42:21 ??cherub 02:42:21 I don't have a page labeled cherub in my learndb. 02:42:21 Cherubim, yes. 02:42:24 @??cherub 02:42:24 ??@cherub 02:42:24 I don't have a page labeled cherub in my learndb. 02:42:25 Cherub (16A) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 15 | HD: 12 | Health: 82-121 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Damage: 25, 10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(128), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 2088 | Sp: minor healing. 02:42:30 Aiee, I can't type today 02:42:32 They're basically angels. 02:43:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47:56 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:19 "no suuch file mons-tuff aww 02:49:21 poor ickle toughies 02:52:15 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:05 greensnark: w- seems to work; did you think it didn't? 02:53:09 greensnark: or did you fix it? 02:53:27 due: No, I didn't, I was mistaken when I said it might be broken 02:53:42 ahh 02:54:26 It might screw with something that used that weird prompt*special thing 02:54:41 Perhaps swapping back to unarmed after interrupted butchery or such, but I didn't test 02:57:07 "meh" 02:58:13 MarvinPA: are you around? 02:58:20 hey 02:59:19 03greensnark * r7e6381cc1535 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-info.cc mon-info.h): [3239] Fix 'x' hiding monster shields. 03:01:15 MarvinPA: when you banished the shedu, how did you do it? 03:02:22 Ah, there we go. 03:02:23 hmm... i think i just learnt the spell, or i might have been wizmode casting it 03:02:25 Distortion weapon does it. 03:02:30 &Zbanish didn't 03:02:45 oh huh, yeah 03:03:06 which implies that distortion-effect banishment is fucked up 03:03:21 it just worked when i did it with &zbanish 03:03:46 but i think it doesn't work if they're both still asleep when you do that? 03:03:50 yup 03:03:59 i'm tracing it 03:04:10 cool 03:04:36 you're... right 03:04:54 i just banished a shedu without in_transit being set to true 03:05:58 transit list-hood is guaranteed only for uniques and special cases 03:06:03 Sounds like you need a shedu special case 03:06:06 ahhh 03:06:15 Something like need_transit decides 03:06:29 needs_transit 03:06:47 thanks 03:07:35 -!- evilmike has quit [] 03:07:39 need to resolve summoned shedu 03:08:16 greensnark: why is transit not guuaranteed? 03:08:50 ohhhh 03:09:03 I don't actually *need* in_transit, just a was_banished flag. 03:09:45 Ah 03:10:28 * due makes a sign to ward off evil, dives into mon_dies code :9 03:16:19 oh, surprisingly easy 03:17:19 I'm going to start documenting code shortly 03:17:21 wheee fun :D 03:23:42 !tell Napkin Can we have "all" fields for Local or Remote/Operating System/Console or Tiles? The latter has "both" but for issues that are game-specific rather than interface-specific, it's nice to be able to set the relevant flag instead of leaving it blank. 03:23:42 due: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 03:36:51 03due * r0f18872705dc 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Pearl dragons are actually finished. 03:36:52 03due * r97d2f218a5f0 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Shedu don't actually use the resurrection spell. 03:36:54 03due * r16133129bd0d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Resolve #3222: shedu don't resurrect banished pairs. 03:36:59 03due * r5ec8369acb48 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc: Fix #3223: shedu wake when pair is killed. 03:37:00 03due * rc8901c6cc204 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Resolve #3138: warning scrawled -> warning-scrawled. 03:38:02 greensnark: argh you fucking tocuhed enum.h :| 03:47:43 guess I'll get my monster.h changes in now then 03:59:22 moin 03:59:22 Napkin: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:59:49 awesome @ dgl&wizard, due :) 04:00:03 :) 04:01:40 giving "all" as option to crawl variant is not so easy 04:01:50 that's okay then 04:02:25 because that one field sets "remote or local", "operating system" and "console or tiles" later 04:03:22 * due nod. 04:03:48 i'll have a look though 04:03:56 don't remember how i did that 04:04:03 need to find the code 04:09:02 yeah 04:10:11 dgl wizard? 04:10:46 oh I see it 04:14:52 tiles: Pressing mod-key pauses arena (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6) by Matthew Cline 04:14:52 tiles: Arena eventually stops responding (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7) by Matthew Cline 04:14:52 tiles: weird nvidia crash on Linux (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5) by Matthew Cline 04:15:11 Hehehehe. 04:15:12 oops, I just updated them 04:15:15 Pre-Ashenzari bugs! <3 04:15:19 No, it's fine 04:15:27 They're just not in Ashenzari's seen list, I imagine. 04:15:32 nono 04:15:37 look at the id 04:15:43 yes 04:15:51 ah, yes 04:15:51 They were filed before Ashenzari existed 04:16:00 :) 04:16:09 anything not in the list that is updated/seen via RSS is considered a new bug, etc. 04:16:17 nvidia... it works ok for me in all cases, but radeon hard-crashes the whole machine 04:16:56 including even when called via VirtualBox's emulation to the host 04:17:05 nice 04:17:34 you crash the host when running crawl in a virtualbox guest? :-O 04:18:02 Napkin: yes! 04:18:07 omg 04:19:15 guest OpenGL/DirectX end up calling hosts's OpenGL which is enough 04:19:32 Is it { for distuances in clouds? 04:19:35 i have the guest crashing quite often 04:19:44 but not the host (nvidia) 04:21:01 due: didn't clouds use ~ for invis disturbances? 04:21:52 before water became ~ 04:22:47 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:23:20 { currently 04:37:16 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:18 do they talk yet :3 04:39:42 kilobyte: nope 04:39:48 kilobyte: yeah, { currentl 04:40:20 Mu_: will work on it soon 04:40:35 \o/ 04:41:20 but it might have to wait until napkin can get wizmode running on CDO :) 04:41:53 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:41 * Mu_ massages due. 04:42:49 * dpeg massages due some more. 04:42:54 hi dpeg :) 04:42:57 Hi! 04:42:58 hiii 04:43:56 !seen galehar 04:43:56 I last saw galehar at Fri Jan 21 23:54:10 2011 UTC (10h 49m 46s ago) quitting with message Quit: disconnect. 04:47:02 ely lifesaving is still on p and item sacrificing is an ability, wasn't that supposed to be changed? 04:48:26 it was 04:48:40 Didn't we get a patch to change that? 04:48:45 might not have been applied 04:48:51 Ah, maybe kilobyte only applied part of that? 04:48:53 !seen kilobyte 04:48:53 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Jan 22 10:30:36 2011 UTC (18m 17s ago) saying - is a regular character so its exceedingly unlikely its something with your terminal on ##crawl. 04:49:03 kilobyte: do you remember? 04:50:44 I play Healers from time to time, and switching prayer/weapon destruction would help a lot. 04:52:38 there was no patch, I did just Yred's mirror 04:52:53 Kiku is there too 04:55:03 due: zotdef goes through the list of all items on level multiple times per every monster, every round to find the orb's position 04:55:08 we really should cache that 04:55:22 kilobyte: ouch wtf 04:55:34 yeah 04:55:41 Even a global variable would suffice 04:56:09 this is related to that flashy halo we'd want, it needs the position too 04:56:41 it would be updated whenever 1. a level is loaded, 2. you drop/apport the orb, 3. you move when holding it 04:58:18 kilobyte: well, for the latter, it's slightly easier: just make it an actor area and have a player_orb_radius function that returns a pre-squared radius if the orb is in your posession. 04:58:33 or do you mean give the orb a radius whenever, wherever? 04:58:55 it would be strange for it to not glow when on the ground 04:59:00 true 04:59:03 alternately 04:59:16 "The orb becomes agitated and starts glowing a sickly purple light" 04:59:19 linux, windows, macosx, dos - is there still need for a "other" selection in the report bug page? 04:59:38 Napkin: Actually, yeah -- or at least add a FreeBSD category? 04:59:43 Napkin: FreeBSD + crawl = paaaiiin. 05:00:19 well, if we add freebsd we should probably add the other bsds too? so i will just keep "other" 05:00:32 Well, *BSD would work. 05:01:20 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:23 hm 05:01:45 is !one_chance_in(mon->stealth - -4, 7) too much for leaving {s? 05:01:57 (where mon->stealth is between -3 and 3) 05:02:18 er, x_change_in_y, too. 05:02:31 due: why is 'FreeBSD + crawl = paaaiiin'? 05:03:03 bhaak: Based on my understanding of the situation, it is extremely difficult to get crawl running on FreeBSD due to . 05:03:27 Can we replace giant goldfish with carp yet 05:03:45 with extra damage vs dwarves? 05:03:48 ah, :-) 05:03:54 due: Tiles or regular? 05:04:10 Zao: . 05:04:23 Oh noes! 05:04:37 Heh, there's a port for dungeoncrawl-4.0.0.b26 :D 05:04:47 ouch, old 05:05:16 * bhaak doesn't mention that unnethack is in freshports since a LONG time 05:05:41 and only because of autotools support. Maybe that's an argument for using autotools? *eg* 05:06:18 bhaak: the reason we do not is modified by neunon's dislike of autotools. 05:06:51 We're becoming more like the NH team every day :P 05:06:58 Where one person is enough to block progress :P 05:07:15 :) 05:07:31 greensnark: Actually, no, it's more "neunon does the makefiles and neunon dislikes autotools so they were not used and nobody has botthered to update them since" 05:07:34 Hey, I got the rat vault <3 05:07:36 I don't know if "autotools" and "progress" in the same sentence is sane :-) 05:07:38 greensnark: <3 05:07:48 due: is "All Both" enough or do you think "All Tiles" and "All Console" is necessary? 05:08:02 due: No, but kilobyte has offered to write up autoconf scripts and been shot down multiple times because of hypothetical objections 05:08:28 bhaak: What to do, the alternatives still suck :P 05:08:31 bhaak: it's more of "none of the attempts to reimplement them sanely produced anything that actually works better". Autoconf has plenty of flaws, just scons/cmake sadly have more. 05:08:54 Napkin: All both is plnety. 05:08:59 greensnark: Really? I must've missed that. 05:09:42 FR: naga get extra nutrition from rats P 05:09:51 <3 05:09:53 hmm? Napkin doesn't have commit access? sometime you have to "just do it"[tm] 05:10:12 (thunt's Goblins?) 05:10:12 @whereis greensnark 05:10:13 greensnark the Poker (L8 NaWn), a worshipper of Makhleb, is currently on D:5 after 7886 turns. 05:10:22 bhaak: commit access for what? 05:10:34 we need playable yaks for YaWn 05:10:34 Also heavy armour is great, I was able to just tank an orc warrior that was using a great mace 05:10:41 the thing is, i'm not doing it because i want it or i need it - i'm changing it for others - so if i do it wrong i need to do it again, bhaak ;) 05:10:41 And I was wearing ring mail and using a spear 05:10:51 Admittedly I used a bit of poison spit, but! 05:10:54 Heavy armour rocked 05:10:58 Napkin: hence why you are awesome <3 05:11:09 the new spellcaster AI nerfs heavy armour :P 05:11:09 @??laboratory rat 05:11:10 parasitic laboratory rat (04r) | Speed: 9-17 | HD: 5 | Health: 17-39 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 905(vampiric) | Flags: evil, !sil | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 126 | Sp: blink / fire breath (3d10) / mephitic cloud / shock (d11). 05:11:13 * Zao tries a FBSD build, no explosions yet :D 05:11:14 ring mail is not "heavy armour" unless you talk 0.5- 05:11:15 or ranged combat AI 05:11:16 hm, chunks are still fucked up 05:11:19 @??ophan 05:11:20 ophan (05G) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 74-117 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1852 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), holy flames. 05:11:25 @??pearl dragon 05:11:25 pearl dragon (08D) | Speed: 13 | HD: 18 | Health: 91-140 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 3508(holy), 2008(holy) | Flags: 08holy, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 5712 | Sp: holy breath (3d36). 05:11:26 due: doing autotools scripts (in a branch or in main) to prove that it can be done and the hypothetical reasons don't apply 05:11:43 pearl dragons are pretty nasty 05:11:47 bhaak: misdireccted? :) 05:12:13 syllogism: yeah, they may need a tweak down, but they're intended to be late-late game monsters (Pan and Zigs) 05:12:27 nasty is good 05:13:17 3d36 is modified quite high by undead/demonic though 05:13:25 sadly, autoconfage would have to be tested on Macs, and my latest attempts to get a hackintosh running were only partially successful: with a network card, it gets a kernel panic on boot, with no network, on shutdown 05:13:26 so maybe *too* nasty 05:14:22 kilobyte: Use a VM, maybe? 05:15:11 Zao: in VirtualBox 05:16:39 kernel panics on shutdown are not a show stopper, lack of networking mostly is... In theory, I can burn a CD image every single time, but that'd be a Rube Goldberg solution. 05:16:41 I think there's a VMware image floating around on the torrent sites 05:17:18 wtf, b0rsuk? 05:17:24 "It's a logic bug." 05:17:54 osx is hopelessly slow on vmware 05:18:31 at least on windows :P 05:20:56 I keep forgetting I'm supposed to offer corpses to Makhleb 05:22:12 i always takes me a few dlvls to remember i should be sacrificing to oka too 05:22:25 Oh god, I'm getting snarky 05:22:36 "If your only concern is logic, go away." 05:22:51 * due snips it and updates quickly before the urge to snark gets too great. 05:23:03 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:31 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3138 05:23:41 Where was I unclear about how the door restrictions worked? 05:23:46 Zao: just tried it on FreeBSD (7.1, I used an old image I had), got a screenful of "makefile line XXX: Need an operator" 05:23:52 "I wanted to see if a monster would eat it so I opened the door and it ate it and that doesn't make sense." 05:23:56 :| 05:24:14 b0rsuk doesn't understand that the warnings on the door are not complete if the door is opened 05:24:27 He thinks you have some kind of ceramic door that suddenly becomes edible when opened 05:24:55 Tell him that the warning runes are written right across the doorjamb! 05:25:01 kilobyte: did you use gnu make? 05:25:06 Perhaps drawing him a diagram will help 05:25:20 "It's like Elbereth. If you fight on it tooo much, it gets worn away, and you get eaten by a grue. Thaank you very much and have a nice night." 05:25:20 With an arrow pointing at the runes 05:25:37 And an arrow with "You are here" and "Jelly is here" indications 05:25:41 kilobyte: Did you use gmake? 05:25:41 That ought to do it 05:26:05 kilobyte: 0.7.1-1-g7ce9b19 just built perfectly from the source tallball. 05:26:19 cd source; gmake # twiddle-thumbs 05:26:27 0.7.1, I tried trunk 05:26:41 greensnark: Did you know the etymology of diagram? 05:26:52 No 05:26:52 gmake fails with: util/art-data.pl: Command not found 05:26:52 greensnark: "dia" is the Greek for "through". So in this instance it's a jelly eating through a door. 05:27:01 greensnark: So we're fucked, apparently? 05:27:02 the file is there, mode 755 05:27:02 kilobyte: Do you have a perl? 05:27:13 yeah 05:27:23 kilobyte: The file uses /usr/bin/perl. 05:27:28 It should use /usr/bin/env perl 05:27:34 yay 05:27:37 Oh wait, no. 05:27:44 I seem to have /usr/bin/perl, for some reason. 05:27:50 YMMV :D 05:28:04 (time to test a trunk here, I guess) 05:28:04 Where does perl normally live on FreeBSD 05:28:17 greensnark: In the knitting bag, clearly. 05:28:21 /usr/bin/perl: symbolic link to `/usr/local/bin/perl5.10.1' 05:28:22 knit 1, perl 2, etc. 05:28:34 :P 05:28:37 !coffee due 05:28:38 * Henzell hands due a cup of café au lait, brewed by Trog. 05:28:38 crap on a crutch, can't even sed it :p 05:28:52 Crap on a crutch is a new one to me 05:28:59 I prefer Jesus Christ on a flaming crutch, myself 05:29:01 It would be difficult, too. 05:29:14 I mean, first of all you have to get higher than the crutch in order to crap on it. 05:29:19 kilobyte: In any way, /usr/bin/env is never wrong. 05:29:19 Balancing both the crutch and yourself... 05:29:26 And then how are you to ensure the crap remains on the crutch? 05:29:28 after a basic "sed -i 's/perl/env perl/' util/art-data.pl" it claims there's an "unknown command u" :p 05:29:33 Or is the crutch lying on the ground? That would make sense. 05:29:38 kilobyte: You might be used to GNU sed. 05:29:42 greensnark: Schlock Mercenary 05:29:43 (which is gsed in coreutils) 05:29:57 Oh, nvm. 05:30:05 That should teach me to read before morning tea. 05:30:13 dammit, no editor installed by default 05:30:14 Also, my standard reaction to anything on FreeBSD is "wah, I have to read the man pages about six times just to work out what the option actually are". 05:30:29 kilobyte: vi should be there. 05:30:42 "vi" doesn't mean "editor" 05:30:47 ed is there, at least 05:30:51 * Napkin hates bsd utils passionedly * 05:31:01 Napkin: my shell is BSD 05:31:07 Napkin: I had to compile basically everything 05:31:26 ed > vi, which is pretty impressive since it's worse than edlin 05:31:58 Everyone used to GNU userland will hatehatehate the Unixes that pretend their userland is ok too 05:32:09 Although FreeBSD userland isn't that bad from what I hear 05:32:13 Solaris is terrible :P 05:32:13 agreed, greensnark 05:32:34 solaris 10 seems to bring lots from gnu userland now 05:32:36 kilobyte: What OS version is this? 05:32:39 BTW, have you ever used LPmud ed? It's pretty amazing as its just ed made user friendly, and yet semi-usable. 05:32:41 * Zao is a happy 8.1 camper 05:33:02 Giant goldfish -> carp would be a DF joke, I think "giant goldfish" is a Crawl joke of it's own. 05:33:17 of course, a line based editor can never hold a stick to a full-screen one (except vi), but still 05:33:24 simple test for bsd tools? run any tool with -a 05:34:07 gnu tool will do exactly what you were thinking about... bsd tool will explode ;) 05:35:07 env: perl -w: No such file or directory 05:36:30 of course, this works with GNU env 05:36:31 kilobyte: What kind of bastardised machine is this? 05:36:31 Haha 05:36:31 Maybe he used a nonbreaking space on the #! line :P 05:36:31 FreeBSD 7.1 05:36:31 !coffee kilobyte 05:36:31 * Henzell hands kilobyte a cup of caffè macchiato, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 05:36:39 can of course remove the argument and place "use warnings;" as the first line of the script 05:36:42 Do you have a Perl at all? 05:36:57 Zao: of course 05:37:07 do it, kilobyte 05:37:23 (worksforme on 8.1, fwiw) 05:38:09 Napkin: yes, doing something == taking the responsibility for it which means fixing it if it breaks. At least, that's how it should be :) 05:38:26 BACK 05:38:32 orb should glow all the timwe 05:38:49 i do that all the time, bhaak 05:38:53 the fixing, i mean ;) 05:39:00 although due's "agitated" idea is also cool 05:39:02 and breaking :-P 05:39:36 an "actor area" is no easier to code than an area around orb_position() 05:39:54 greensnark: yes on carp 05:40:04 kilobyte: yes, true 05:40:07 dpeg: What, really? :P 05:40:20 I'm going to do it :P 05:40:46 and remember to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with the carp! 05:44:15 dpeg: going to nerf PDA to -3 EV. 05:44:15 due: good 05:44:18 greensnark: didn't know it was from DF :) Thought people were unhappy with lethal goldfish. 05:44:43 read my comment already? :) 05:44:49 Keskitalo: the mail? 05:44:56 no, on goldfish 05:45:13 ah; I see 05:45:25 * dpeg has problems with humour.# 05:45:53 i love DF, DF references I approve, but giant goldfish is a crawlism, it's like legacy !!! 05:47:20 kilobyte: 0.8.0-a0-4726-gc8901c6 built well as well. Going to try to repro the build from a fresh jail now. 05:47:37 03kilobyte * rfd47ce195e6d 10/crawl-ref/source/libutil.cc: Add a plural for seraphim in the off chance we add them some day. 05:48:42 <3 05:48:45 03kilobyte * r7c137b6ed134 10/crawl-ref/source/util/ (FAQ2html.pl art-data.pl): Some necrocomputing portability. 05:48:45 ..otoh, renaming "big fish" to carp, now that would be funny. :P 05:48:45 But big fish are so weak :( 05:48:45 I'd prefer we dumped "giant goldfish". Crawl has an obsession with "giant" versions of things. 05:48:45 man-eating carp, to explain why it can kill early characters (Yred's altar) in one blow 05:48:45 greensnark: carp in df were nerfed too 05:48:45 just like elephants 05:48:48 man-eating goldfish? 05:48:48 Keskitalo: This s a tribute to the Real Carp of DF, not the pale shadows of modern times 05:48:48 <3 05:48:48 due: i agree on "giant", but it's funny with goldfish 05:48:48 Keskitalo: sure. 05:48:48 ok, enough of mysql for today \o/ 05:48:48 oh, that reminds me 05:48:48 >:) 05:48:53 Keskitalo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Carpe_miroir_de_17kg.jpg/220px-Carpe_miroir_de_17kg.jpg 05:49:00 http://www.mariowiki.com/Big_Bertha 05:49:33 Time to get rid of another "giant" monster. 05:49:33 * due whistles innocently. 05:49:33 I am renaming giant bat to megabat. 05:49:33 lol 05:49:37 greensnark: not even orange !!! 05:49:52 due: name the goddamn bats. 05:49:57 Haha 05:49:58 them 05:50:05 TVTropesCrawl? :P 05:50:07 Keskitalo: nooo, "megabat"! 05:50:12 Big Bertha ("Dicke Bertha") is the name of a famous cannon in Germany. 05:50:15 yeah ... 05:50:48 due: are there going to be terabats? 05:51:20 Keskitalo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabat 05:52:40 They're not carnivorous! I googled "largest carnivorous bat", and got this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_Bat 05:53:14 "Megabat" is awesmoe because it is so funny. 05:53:31 "Mega" is a hilarious modifier when applied to bat. BUT, they're real. 05:53:49 My favourite bat: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Golden_crowned_fruit_bat.jpg 05:54:02 Yes, they are gorgeous. 05:54:28 "largest carnivorous bat in australia" comes up with this: http://thewebsiteofeverything.com/animals/mammals/Chiroptera/Megadermatidae/Macroderma/Macroderma-gigas.html 05:54:29 Does domake.sh really require bash? 05:54:31 5 ft wingspan <3 05:54:41 Zao: you use domake.sh? 05:54:43 super cute 05:54:45 can we delete domake.sh? 05:54:46 "ghost bat" 05:54:55 it is horribly misleading 05:54:57 due: It's there, so I assumed it was part of regular building procedures. 05:55:04 Zao: yes, that is the problem 05:55:43 Before neunon's tweaks in September of '09 05:55:50 they were last changed in 2008. 05:56:09 greensnark, kilobyte, Napkin, does anything use domake.sh? 05:56:17 i don't 05:56:54 !seen neunon 05:56:54 I last saw neunon at Thu Dec 16 04:59:21 2010 UTC (5w 2d 6h 57m 33s ago) quitting with message Read error: Connection reset by peer. 05:56:56 Let's toss them 05:56:59 okay 05:57:00 tossed 05:58:03 From a fresh 8.1 install, all that is needed is to: pkg_add -r gmake perl; cd source; gmake 06:00:01 (thus far, at least. this poor X2 isn't exactly the build machine of the year) 06:00:08 yessss, toss domake.sh 06:00:18 Zaba: it is gooone 06:00:24 Zaba: or will be when i push shortlty 06:00:28 and dolinks :P 06:00:44 they are both gone 06:01:34 yay 06:02:50 The git invocations in the build system, they're just to get versions or something, right? 06:03:52 Haha SA... Someone: "The orb cannot be apported as easily as before [plus details]." Immediate reply: "Now apportation is the most useless spell of them all." 06:04:09 Victory! \/ 06:04:11 dpeg: "No longer overpowered? No longer useful!" 06:04:18 Keskitalo: That was my response to "zomg Grinder killer meh :(" 06:04:29 Correct! 06:04:55 Zao: it should be silently ignored 06:05:15 Zao: on this 7.1, it's not exactly silent but still seems harmless 06:06:49 apportation can still be used to apport runes, right? 06:06:58 then I don't see how it can be most useless :P 06:08:15 Zaba: don't listen them 06:08:22 players, shhh :) 06:09:07 Build successful \o/ 06:09:12 I haven't gotten to zot yet since the apport nerf but I expect I'll still be apporting my share of orbs too :P 06:09:36 Apart from four "git: not found", nothing horrible appears to have happened. 06:09:42 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:10:00 elliptic: :) 06:12:47 elliptic: It doesn't make apportation a non-viable option, it just makes people think about it a bit more. It's no longer a "there's no reason not to so you may as well" 06:13:32 due: yeah, it sounds reasonable enough... I'll have to see how it plays :) 06:14:06 I often get cBlink castable anyway, which means I have high power 06:14:41 "Unrecognised items" screen shows staves with their true tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3266) by jpeg 06:15:18 elliptic: You need power 100+ to reliably apport it. 06:15:40 elliptic: Indications previously were that 100+ is non-standard and unlikely, but I will tweak the value if necessary. 06:15:46 elliptic: It still shrieks. :D 06:16:05 Well, the shriek isn't going to bother anyone who teleports right out anyway 06:16:27 ??apportation[5] 06:16:27 apportation[5/5]: In trunk, your ability to apport the orb is dependent on spellpower. There's a flat chance (1-in-6) of it failing; otherwise it will move a maximum of (pow / 10) - 1 squares towards you. 06:16:52 Yes, I was unclear about the 100+ = instapport. 06:16:53 doesn't that mean you only need 90 power? or is that entry misleading? 06:17:06 er, 100, sorry 06:17:09 okay 06:17:18 100+ = instapport IF you don't fail the 1-in-6 chance. 06:17:23 yeah 06:17:26 <100 = pow/10-1 squares movement. 06:17:34 but you can just cast apport twice with 50 power, right? 06:17:49 Yes. 06:17:56 Or not 06:18:03 I can't remmeber if it's random2(pow/10-1) 06:18:09 brain dead :( 06:19:08 it doesn't look like random2 06:19:58 anyway, requiring 2 apports with 1/6 chance of failure sounds like a reasonable nerf to me 06:20:03 okay, then yes, twice with 50 power 06:20:10 yes, i thoguht so as well 06:21:03 hm, stealth function is wrong 06:21:59 oh well ,can fix it later 06:22:01 03due * r3ec65dc05b30 10/crawl-ref/ (29 files in 10 dirs): Giant bats are now megabats. 06:22:21 03due * r544a0f2a81fc 10/crawl-ref/ (dolinks.sh domake.sh): Remove outdate dolinks.sh, domake.sh. 06:22:32 03due * r8ded030a8274 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h makefile.obj mon-stealth.cc monster.h player.h): Calculate a stealth value between -3 and 3 for monsters. 06:22:39 megabaaaats 06:22:47 goddamn megabats 06:25:17 :D 06:29:23 dpeg: new demon megadeth yes/yes? 06:31:26 no no 06:31:38 Megadeth is a mediocre thrash metal band. 06:31:57 dpeg: :D i know 06:33:11 A change like s/giant bat/megabat/ is bound to cause eternal and pointless discussions. :) 06:33:23 dpeg: I'm feeling reckless 06:33:37 do you dislike it? 06:33:43 no, it's okay 06:33:44 03j-p-e-g * r70ad4111e27a 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: If you don't recognise any items, make \ shown all unknown ones. 06:33:46 03j-p-e-g * r2385edbaa1c2 10/crawl-ref/source/menu.cc: Fix unknown items toggle not working. 06:34:10 I always feel smug when Crawl uses (pseudo)scientific speech. 06:34:45 Did I tell you recently to play the new tutorials and tell jpeg about it? 06:35:15 i do not know 06:35:26 i am tring ot get as much crawl stuff done tonight though as i can, as tomorrow is murderrl! 06:35:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:33 who is Jesse Jones? 06:35:38 due is exempt 06:35:43 due: some serial killer? 06:35:50 perhaps from Western times? 06:35:52 they're on the top of wiz-mon 06:36:00 erm :) 06:36:17 * Written by: Linley Henzell and Jesse Jones 06:39:11 some mac guy 06:39:14 jdj 06:41:13 -!- jpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:22 due: You're thinking of Jesse James 06:41:22 jpeg_: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:41:29 (yes, I've been reading the log again) 06:41:31 jpeg_: :) 06:41:37 also, yay for murderRL! <3 06:41:40 i should be in bed! 06:41:46 !messages 06:41:46 (1/3) galehar said (5d 15h 54m 29s ago): if the command tab is detached, tiles.m_tabs[TAB_COMMAND] will be defined. You will need to add an accessor method, because the m_tabs is private, and the tabID enum is local to the TilesFramework class 06:41:49 however i made a mistaaake 06:42:09 and ooh these chocolate biscuits are by a bakery called "leda". how awesome is that for a crawl reference? 06:42:37 I was thinking of Jesse James, too. 06:42:37 can anyone tell me when the maps get evaluated, at db initialisation, at game start or at map load? 06:43:05 due: maybe we could get an ad contract? ;) 06:43:07 greensnark? 06:43:23 Hello? 06:43:29 jpeg_: I am playing lessons 2 and 3 right now. Where to put comments? 06:43:29 jpeg_: what part of the map, specifically? 06:43:43 Oh, maps 06:43:44 dpeg: wiki, mail, here 06:43:47 ok 06:44:04 there's code to distinguish between tiles and non-tiles tutorial speech 06:44:35 des global prelude + each map prelude,main,etc lua is run once when compiling the .des file; des global preludes are run before game start; map local preludes are run after game start (once character is known) 06:44:38 I'm wondering whether something similar would work for detached/undetached command tab 06:45:06 When placing the map prelude+main chunks are run each time the dungeon builder looks for a place to build the map 06:45:12 local meaning what? epilogue? 06:45:34 Local prelude is any prelude{{ }} code within a particular map's definition 06:45:42 As far as I know nothing uses local preludes yet 06:45:50 ah, okay 06:45:57 mmmprelue 06:46:00 epilogue{{ }} is another chunk, run after the level is completely built 06:46:35 actually run when you arrive on the level but before "you see x here", I think. 06:46:50 I can't remember why I coded it in but there was a reason 06:46:57 there's some oddity with that: the tutorial greeting message includes a -more-, meaning that the stats aren't shown until after you press Space 06:47:29 I just typed that in the mail :) 06:47:33 (which is basically fine, because the player should be concentrating on the message instead of numbers, but a little bit odd) 06:47:59 jpeg_: would be okay with either no stat section at all, or the numbers printed. Currently it is halfway between. 06:48:42 dpeg: yeah, that's a technical result of the way the epilogue is handled 06:48:54 dpeg: I'll see if I can get rid of the -more- 06:49:14 dpeg: though I like the way the player learns right away _how_ to get rid of it himself 06:49:31 ... and I still don't know where to add the detached/undetached checks 06:49:35 !messages 06:49:35 (1/2) galehar said (5d 16h 45s ago): before the priority option, the gold_turns option was automatically deactivated if the inventory had less than 52 cells. 06:49:35 jpeg_: the starting line (about Ctrl-P and Space is awesome, it should stay) 06:49:50 !messages 06:49:50 (1/1) galehar said (5d 16h 38s ago): also, your numpad is upside down in the tutorial. 06:49:55 :) 06:49:58 :) 06:50:14 that reminds me, what was up again? j or k? 06:50:35 could check in-game, but Crawl's currently busy being recompiled 06:50:45 left up down right 06:50:47 so j is up 06:50:56 i think, oh god, how do i not know? 06:51:00 j is down 06:51:04 :) 06:51:04 left down up right :D 06:51:41 so I got it wrong, or ... wait, right 06:51:43 it seems 06:51:57 * jpeg_ is getting confused 06:53:15 also, is the tutorial accessible on cdo? 06:53:35 don't think so 06:53:52 I've added a commandline option 06:54:00 anything else I need to do except ping Napkin? 06:54:56 don't think so 06:55:19 all the biscuits are gone :( 06:55:34 * dpeg slaps Leda. 06:55:44 is the tutorial accessible via cdo at all? 06:55:57 that's what I'm asking 06:56:03 i don't think so since ctrl+t was removed 06:56:14 I've added CLO_TUTORIAL 06:56:26 "./crawl -tutorial" works 06:56:42 -tutorial means i will have to add a separate game for it 06:56:55 sorry, busy at the moment 06:57:02 I don't know how you handle Sprint etc., just took my cue from that 06:57:23 Napkin: no worries, it's not urgent 06:57:38 Napkin: though I might get more pushy when I'm done :D 06:59:27 Okay this can wait until tomorrow 06:59:31 goodighgt good folk 06:59:43 due: sleep well! 07:01:37 03j-p-e-g * r9bbcac556249 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc itemname.cc itemname.h shopping.cc): Turn check_item_knowledge into a void function, remove quiet param. 07:02:28 'kay, all questions answered, I'm off again :) 07:02:37 -!- jpeg_ has quit [] 07:07:41 what about saves? are they handled like spring/defence too? 07:09:46 they're so short nobody's probably thought about saves yet 07:10:10 it's important for cdo if it's added as a separate game 07:10:25 let me think if i can do without 07:10:49 Johanna said something about saves... taht they didn't work but now do. 07:11:25 Keskitalo: I replied to your Disgaia example on forum. Also, you wanted to tell me something yesterday, but I forgot what it was. You recall? 07:15:31 Hmmm, yeah, there was something. 07:15:36 dpeg: replied in the tavern 07:16:10 dpeg: It was the roguelike UI tropes vs. modern/mmorpg UI tropes thing 07:18:04 basically I'll generalize that warwalrus's testers came from mmorpgs, and roguelike hotkey conventions (not really hotkeys, just commands) were seen as a bit strange. In roguelikes, the commands are all aroudn the keyboard and have the "first letter" mmemonic, in mmorpgs, there are fewer hotkeys and they're situated so that they're easily reached 07:18:27 also spells: "abcdefg..." puts them in an alphabetical list, but "1234567.." is more easy to reach 07:18:35 I macro my spells to "1234..." quite often 07:18:44 I don't play modern rpgs or mmorpgs though :) 07:18:47 on PC at least 07:19:07 anyway, I don't know if I explained it any better, I just found that interesting 07:19:28 and I wonder if it was worth to cater to those players 07:19:47 another thing was the common "use" key 07:19:54 so.. making the tutorial available again from inside the game is not an option, huh? 07:20:17 didn't even realize that since 0.7 there was no tutorial accessible on CDO 07:20:18 Napkin: I guess you could have a button for it in the character selection screen 07:20:39 it is available in the main menu but cao/cdo skips it :) 07:20:52 having it as a separate game is doable too 07:21:08 yeah, I like the separate thing 07:21:09 back 07:21:30 but I wonder which is better for the actual new player :) 07:21:49 separate is probably better for them 07:21:50 Keskitalo: thanks for explanation, makes a lot of sense 07:21:55 to see tutorial immediately 07:22:01 maybe we can test playing on cdo in the next years usability testing, if we get the opportunity? :) 07:22:12 but those scripts are growing & growing with cases 07:22:31 !coffee Napkin 07:22:31 * Henzell hands Napkin a cup of soy latte, brewed by Xom. 07:22:36 savegames with .sav, .chr, .cs, many different folders, etc 07:22:39 So much soy latte! 07:22:46 hehe :) 07:22:53 well, breakfast first, then I will check it 07:23:01 need to add wizard mode too for devs 07:23:10 re: common use key - the examples in the report was about dungeon features (altars, stairs, fountains ... and doors, which are different) but I guess it also applies to the items 07:23:24 Keskitalo: yes, I understand about cardinal directions.... makes for a good interface, but doesn't fit Crawl so well. 07:23:43 dpeg: Yeah, not sure if it'd be any good for Crawl, it has free targeting for instance 07:24:01 a common use key for them wouldn't be bad for beginners, the old-timers could keep using the w/W/e/q/v/r keys still 07:24:02 Keskitalo: exactly. But it is still good to look at other games, just for inspiration. 07:24:16 Keskitalo: was already fully exasperated (as ever :) about acvar. 07:25:06 my favourite acvar postings have been about how he works in the industry, and cannot give a better example of some game design thing because of signign some strict non-disclosure agreements. 07:25:10 Keskitalo: the problem between use vs special commands is about learning curve (easier with use) vs later usefulness (better with special commands). The contest between windows and linux, if you want :) 07:25:18 dpeg: hehe :) 07:25:21 Keskitalo: I was so sure he's a troll by then. 07:25:33 yeah, you can use mouse/inventory in tiles anyway 07:25:33 I am against the use command... it is worse in the long run. 07:25:47 We've got to teach players why there's no "use", if necessary. 07:25:52 plus the usage commands now available via inventory are <3 07:25:59 yes 07:26:05 hehe, you could have "philosophical tutorials" 07:26:30 one lesson would be "On the virtue of OOD" 07:27:19 what would really make things easier for noobs.. is to be able to execute something when looking at an item from the i)nventory 07:27:41 like wield, wear, put on, remove, zap, etc 07:28:06 Napkin: galehar added that recently :) 07:28:16 oh, great :) 07:28:30 * dpeg has a hunch that galehar is secretly a noob :) 07:29:48 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:27 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:29 03pointless_ * r9ff1cffdcc07 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Refine check for friendlies currently pathing to the player 08:00:51 If acvar really worked in the industry he's have to be a bleeding genius for them to tolerate his obnoxious personality 08:01:16 Occam's razor says he's just a garden variety moron 08:02:06 We have a pointless_ in our midst 08:02:21 I keep planning grand games to see all the new stuff in Crawl 08:02:25 shocking, I know 08:02:27 And then I die on D:10 from button mashing 08:02:52 @whereis . 08:02:52 No where information for pointless_. 08:02:57 @whereis pointless 08:02:57 pointless the Destroyer (L17 KeCj), a worshipper of Fedhas, saved on D:18 on 2011-01-22 after 82951 turns. 08:03:11 I am on D:18, but I seem to have no HP 08:03:13 Parrot Conjurer of Fedhas, nice 08:03:37 Havng no hp is the fun thing about parrots 08:04:08 keeps it exciting, like when I got Ouch!ed by a vault guard with a bow 08:04:10 I see dpeg thinks characters get hungy 08:05:02 I should play another game to sample the ranged monster AI 08:05:14 --- 08:05:16 main.cc:216: warning: ‘void _handle_wizard_command()’ declared ‘static’ but never defined 08:05:18 --- 08:05:44 Napkin: Is that a CDO DGL build or a Windows build? 08:05:50 cdo dgl 08:05:54 due has been naughty 08:06:38 Napkin: Are you building a wizard build? 08:06:48 Looks like you get that warning with a non-wiz DGL build. 08:07:06 yeah, missed to add wizard ;D 08:07:52 just "wizard" as make target, right? 08:08:03 Yes, I think so 08:08:03 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 08:08:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:53 thanks - let's see 08:09:21 Yay, dgl build seems broken 08:09:53 well I was going to ask for cdo trunk to be updated, but I guess that won't work :P 08:10:07 pardon? 08:10:20 Napkin: Oh, it should build for you, this looks like Mac header stuff :) 08:10:26 oh ok 08:10:26 ah 08:13:17 hmmm.. the make install compiled it again 08:13:25 *wanted to compile it again 08:14:37 is there a special wizard install target? 08:15:36 Napkin: make wizard install, I think 08:15:48 nah 08:15:54 Yep! 08:15:56 that should just run 2 targets 08:16:10 same as "make wizard" and "make install" separately 08:16:11 No, wizard is a fake target that sets up cflags for a wizmode build 08:16:27 ah, problem is the install target 08:16:33 is says "install: all" 08:16:35 wizard: all and install: all, but the makefile checks for wizard in MAKECMDGOALS and sets up cflags 08:16:39 and all != wizard 08:16:42 Napkin: make wizard install will work :P 08:16:44 Try it :P 08:16:50 impossible! 08:16:56 Let me paste the code in question 08:17:15 http://sprunge.us/HcUN 08:17:36 oh.. DEBUG is on too then? 08:17:41 is that what we want? 08:17:51 and.. you makefile hackers! :-P 08:18:03 Napkin: Yes, DEBUG is on, and yes, it's inappropriate for a CDO build 08:18:18 Assuming you're worried about binary size 08:18:35 wait.. don't we have debug already on anyways? 08:18:40 oh.. no, we only have -g 08:18:48 that's not the same I assume? 08:19:19 i will add a findstring for cdo-install then 08:19:26 Hm, make wizard appears to also do -DDEBUG 08:19:37 ah.. hmm... 08:19:45 greensnark: the tutorials deliberately set hunger levels... for educational purposes. 08:19:47 I don't know if that's a great idea 08:19:49 we should change - shouldn't we? 08:19:58 dpeg: I know, I was just poking fun at your typo :P 08:20:19 "My character is well hungy" 08:20:22 Sorry :P 08:20:29 well, i will just add WIZARD=YesPlease instead - would that work, greensnark? 08:21:09 it should, if i read the makefile correctly 08:21:42 Napkin: Yes, WIZARD=y is safest, don't use the wizard target 08:22:05 -DDEBUG seems to do a bunch of things more suitable for a real debug build 08:23:47 let's try again :) 08:23:53 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:32 hmmm... didn't help 08:28:37 make install still says * rebuilding crawl: new build flags or prefix 08:28:55 which is not true as far as i can see... 08:29:38 oh, my fault 08:31:40 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4735-g9ff1cff (32) 08:31:45 success! 08:36:20 greensnark: we should be grateful that a professional graces our puny little game with his experience and insight. 08:37:07 so, greensnark - I just entered wizard mode. do we have to take care of anything else? milestones, scores, logfile etc? 08:43:45 In theory milestones will be marked as wizard milestones, which is not ideal, they should be suppressed 08:43:56 logfile entries will be suppressed 08:44:31 ok, as long as gretell and your stats parsing scripts will ignore those marked milestones? 08:45:56 Yeah, I can update them 08:46:18 or rather suppress the milestones? 08:46:27 makes more sense, i would say 08:54:15 -!- hoody_ has quit [Quit: fleeing...] 08:55:54 03greensnark * rd849b4366336 10/crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc initfile.cc main.cc): Fix Mac dgl compile. 09:12:36 @whereis Chojin 09:12:37 Chojin the Magician (L1 HEFi) is currently on D:1 after 1 turn. 09:25:29 so.. do we want only "developers" to access wizard mode? or "updaters" too? 09:34:04 how many updaters are there? 09:34:17 23 09:34:23 24 09:34:41 21 devs (including me as admin in db) and 24 updaters 09:54:11 devs i'd say 09:54:26 and now we can win the tourney! \o/ 09:54:37 haha 10:00:51 Cursed amulet of faith prompts for removal (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3267) by minmay 10:09:56 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:03 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:31:00 Kirke's hogs don't revert to their true form (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3268) by starless 10:53:14 ok, i decided against using mysql inside the chroot 10:53:35 instead i'm using the flags columns in the dgl sqlite3 db 10:55:09 > mysql --silent --skip-column-names -u dgl -e "select * from mantis_crawl.developers" | while read dev; do echo "select username,flags from dglusers where username=\"$dev\";"; done | sqlite3 dgldir/data/passwd.db3 | wc -l 10:55:13 17 10:55:16 --- 10:55:51 which means 17 of the 21 devs registered in mantis use the same name for playing on cdo and have wizard mode enabled (for non-sprint, non-defence trunk games for now) 10:57:25 Napkin: oh the temptation 10:57:32 Thank Trog I have a non-dpeg account. 10:57:40 please verify, dpeg ? :) 10:57:50 I could finally pick up some gkills 10:58:00 I'm tired of people smacking my ghosts dead 10:58:09 I could easily fix up the right kind of ghost now 10:58:12 wtf?! 10:58:15 seriously?? 10:58:25 Napkin: Yeah, there's a wizmode command to save a ghost :P 10:58:28 works! 10:58:30 From the current character 10:58:31 oooooh! 10:58:38 geez - mean! :D 10:58:46 haha 10:59:05 ay legion of legendary greensnark ghosts will populate the shallow dungeon 10:59:24 Including D:1 10:59:36 I wish there were a way to gift wrap and deliver a ghost to a particular player 10:59:38 :undo 10:59:40 :undo 10:59:44 :undooooooooooo 10:59:47 Napkin: Doesn't seem to work :P 10:59:48 ;D 10:59:51 Your :undo, I mean :P 10:59:58 hehe 11:02:15 "This ghost has been carefully manufactured for your modestification needs by Green Snark Inc." 11:05:27 alright, enabled for sprint & zot defence as well 11:16:19 and tutorial enabled too (without separate saves, though) 11:19:22 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.7/20100713130626]] 11:21:07 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:29 anything left to do for today? 11:21:36 !coffee Napkin 11:21:37 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of latte macchiato, brewed by Yredelemnul. 11:21:41 \o/ 11:21:47 thanks :) 11:25:12 03j-p-e-g * r85be70e4c66f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/ (tutorial_lesson2.des tutorial_lesson3.des): Add the third (and last) level to the item tutorial. 11:25:20 03j-p-e-g * r624d41dd3f28 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson3.des: Add inter-level shortcuts in tutorial lesson 3. 11:25:20 03j-p-e-g * rfc39900d547c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/ (tutorial_lesson2.des tutorial_lesson3.des): Replace grey (in console) mace and helmet with more colourful items. 11:26:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:55 hey, puzzle minigame 11:36:05 btw, maybe the hinted games should be selectable in the tutorial screen too? 11:40:05 I can't test the tutorial becuase I have a game in progress -- I guess this is that shared saves thing in action :( 11:40:21 yes 11:48:41 tutorial is nice 11:48:46 :) 11:49:33 a slight grammatical error: 11:49:33 _Found two exit from the tutorials. 11:49:51 heppen 11:53:09 i think we need a third unambiguously-good portal vault 11:53:28 so that we can have a vault that's a circular room with a pressure plate in the middle 11:54:03 and when you step on it, three doors open up to bazaar, trove, new-portal-vault - but you only can get to one of them before the others time out 11:54:44 along similar lines, we need a monty hall vault 11:54:50 don't labs count? 11:55:09 st_: no: "unambigously good" 11:56:08 st_: labs could count if their loot were on par, but as it stands nobody would ever choose a lab over a bazaar or a trove 11:56:09 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:56:28 you could have that kind of a vault with just two portals, too... 11:56:41 Zaba: could, but i think 3 is more interesting 11:56:41 "megabat" is a joke, right? 11:56:53 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:00 TGWi: no, giant bats are the joke 11:57:38 I mean, the 0.8 release isn't going to have "megabats," will it? 11:57:57 hope so 11:58:03 for what bats are (fast, batty, deal almost no damage) "bat" would work fine 11:58:16 TGWi: have you ever seen a bat 11:58:24 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:24 -!- ivan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:25 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:27 yes 11:58:37 megabats apparently actually exist so why not 11:58:38 megabats are real but it's still a silly name 11:59:14 'megabat' is a very silly name 11:59:39 heck, there's a real life 'giant fruit bat' 12:00:44 what's next, gigageckos? 12:01:37 (other natural monsters crawl doesn't have but should: sloths, cassowaries, moas, hoatzin, octopus, locusts, paper wasps, bullet ants, mantis shrimp) 12:02:00 anglerfish chameleons pistol shrimp 12:02:02 anomalacaris, trilobytes 12:02:16 crawl should get kilobytes, not trilobytes :P 12:03:19 TGWi: we could steal karmic lizards from ADOM 12:03:22 karma chameleons 12:03:28 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:09 !learn add todo_monsters sloths, cassowaries, moas, hoatzin, octopus, locusts, paper wasps, bullet ants, mantis shrimp 12:04:10 todo monsters[1/1]: sloths, cassowaries, moas, hoatzin, octopus, locusts, paper wasps, bullet ants, mantis shrimp 12:04:34 it looks like dgl is freaking out 12:04:34 !learn add todo_monsters anglerfish chameleons pistol shrimp anomalacaris trilobytes 12:04:34 todo monsters[2/2]: anglerfish chameleons pistol shrimp anomalacaris trilobytes 12:04:42 it thinks everyone's playing both dcss-svn and tut-svn 12:05:04 oh, right 12:05:08 let me fix that 12:05:18 hmm 12:05:34 did due disable his @?? stuff or does scorch marked granite statue not work 12:05:52 @??granite statue 12:05:53 unknown monster: "granite statue" 12:06:08 @??scorched statue 12:06:09 unknown monster: "scorched statue" 12:06:10 uh 12:06:35 @??statue 12:06:36 statue (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 561. 12:06:38 @??cigotuvi 12:06:39 unknown monster: "cigotuvi" 12:06:42 @??cigotuvi's monster 12:06:43 Cigotuvi's Monster (13X) | Speed: 9 | HD: 25 | Health: 250 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 22, 17, 13 | Flags: 05demonic, amphibious, see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(166), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 3317. 12:06:45 hmmm 12:06:55 @??charred statue 12:06:56 charred statue (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 12 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living, !sil, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 32 | Sp: throw flame (3d5). 12:07:03 oh, did it get renamed? 12:07:18 it was a bit wordy 12:07:49 I think scorch marked granite statues are vault-defined features not monsters but I could be wrong 12:08:13 never seen one, myself, so I'm just basing it on the granite 12:08:16 oh, right. scorched marked are the statues with the fire, not the vehu throw flame ones 12:08:25 !learn edit todo_monsters[2] s/$/ skunk coconut crab drop bears guard llamas 12:08:25 todo monsters[2/2]: anglerfish chameleons pistol shrimp anomalacaris trilobytes skunk coconut crab drop bears guard llamas 12:08:28 i forgot they are two totally different things 12:10:48 fixed & thanks, monqy 12:31:38 ouch.cc:_part_stack_string() returns deallocated memory (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3269) by JoachimSchipper 12:41:07 03j-p-e-g * rc3f5a1c6f7c0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/ (tutorial_lesson2.des tutorial_lesson3.des): A few tutorial tweaks. 12:41:09 03j-p-e-g * r47f296cd5f3c 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix force_hit traps sometimes being avoidable. 12:47:43 a little something I wrote: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:evktalo#weapon_type_damage_type 12:49:57 is damage type a good place for differentiation? 12:50:11 encouraging people to use different weapons against everything could get annoying 12:50:46 yeah, it's more of a strategic choice than tactial choice (what sort of weapons to look for and buy or enhcant) 12:50:59 swapping a weapon would be the tactical concern 12:51:27 damn, I just had an interface idea: if you wield 1H+Shield, wielding a 2H weapon should meld your shield. 12:51:40 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:02 (swapping a weapon is not a great example of a tactical concern I confess) 12:52:49 oops, that's obviously not just an interface idea 12:52:51 melding your shield is a bit weird in flavour 12:54:13 the problem is real though, swapping between 1H+shield and 2H is too cumbersome, and it's a pure interface thing if you ask me. Maybe it should fiddle with the shield automatically. Of course, that can lead to miskeying and getting a huge shield-unwearing delay by mistake 12:54:36 (well of course it's not a pure interface thing, but something should be done) 12:55:43 does wielding a 2h weapon unwear your shield? 12:56:43 Your shield prevents you wielding the battleaxe. Take the shield off? 12:57:40 would a prompt be easier/more desirable? 12:57:58 or an annoyance? 12:58:03 more desirable than requiring the player to manually unwear their shield, yeah 12:58:09 what of returning to the 1H? 12:58:24 consider the "do you want to switch back to your weapon" mess with butchering. :/ 12:58:41 the problem with that prompt is that it gets asked twice 12:58:44 and it doesn't care what you answer 12:58:47 it's buggy yeah 12:58:51 always been buggy 12:58:59 maybe that colours my expectations 12:59:03 did the slaying ring get changed? 12:59:14 don't recall any changes, how so? 12:59:17 and yeah, I think it would be an annoyance. 12:59:33 Keskitalo: because a player has a +1,+8 slaying ring which is impossible in .7 12:59:34 they're incomparable 12:59:50 think of how many times you get interrupted while butchering 13:00:20 oh yeah, armour changing is uninterruptible (which not everyone likes) 13:00:22 now think of how many times you have a shield on, try wielding a 2h weapon, but don't want to wield it 13:00:22 As people only rarely want to switch weapons, why not leave it as-is? It's pretty clear that the buckler is the reason you can't wield that exec axe 13:00:44 casmith789: Well, the proposal I had (that I linked to) would increase the amount of weapon switching people want to do 13:00:50 that's how it came up 13:00:55 ah, sorry 13:00:56 because it's annoying to try to wield something, get denied, have to remove your buckler manually, then wield it again 13:00:57 plus I've been annoyed by it for some reason 13:01:12 then wield your normal weapon and put the buckler back on manually if you don't want the 2h weapon after all 13:01:12 I think because I wanted to use bow but then short blade + shield for melee on my HeAM 13:01:26 ..of course, it's just a couple of mouse clicks in tiles :) 13:01:58 if it were more desirable to switch weapons it would boost hybrids and nerf pure melee 13:02:07 hmm, I do think just asking if you wanted to unwear your shield would streamline that a lot 13:03:01 casmith789: how? 13:03:11 (i believe but don't see it myself immediately= 13:03:48 hybrids do kind of get best of both worlds all the time.. high skill doesn't matter enough I think :/ 13:04:04 hybrids are the kind of players that train loads of skills to 12 or so. They could easily do this for a weapon too, especially if they're crosstraining. While a heavy armour fighter could, it means that they're less on the way to getting their exec axe 13:04:19 hybrids can often get high skill anyway 13:04:31 if they're dumb things like polearm merfolk 13:04:35 ah yeah, generalization is cheaper because of non-linear xp spendage? 13:04:39 TGWi: that too :) 13:04:40 yup 13:05:03 galehar's proposed xp costs are cool 13:05:04 on the wiki 13:05:19 takes slightly more exp to get to 27 and it doesn't have the weird jumps in the middle 13:05:28 SP costs* 13:05:50 s/wiki/forum/ 13:11:04 I haven't invested in the xp stuff myself (nor LOS) :) 13:14:22 03j-p-e-g * r539de1bf3457 10/crawl-ref/ (4 files in 3 dirs): New mapdef item tag "charges" for defining wand charges. 13:14:25 casmith789: In my proposal most weapon skills include more than one damage type. Just axes, bows, xbows and slings are limited to one. 13:14:46 huh, okay 13:15:02 is gsc just piercing? 13:15:07 I imagine it'd be crushing too 13:15:10 Well, long blades, but they can crosstrain to short blades more cheaply 13:15:31 monqy: yeah that's one thing that's awkward, spiked M&F are piercing 13:15:48 they could be half piercing, half crushing, but it kind of evens out to nothing.. 13:16:37 casmith789: The damage types are the same as the ones that are in game right now - currently they just affect only the name of the vorpal brand unless I'm mistaken :) 13:17:04 hydras 13:17:17 ah, yes, excellent point :D 13:17:36 well, spiked M&F could be their own damage type of course, with the good points of both and bad points of both 13:17:42 maybe tie it to weapon types instead of individual damage types 13:17:59 so instead of swapping it's another consideration in choosing weapons 13:18:36 like per skill school? 13:18:46 or per individual weapon (sabre vs short sword)? 13:18:56 per skill school 13:18:56 per skill 13:18:58 or whip, mace/club, flail ? 13:19:09 per weapon would still encourage swapping 13:20:05 I guess per school it would force you to spend xp if you wanted to swap 13:21:02 otoh there are 6 damage types and 11 schools if you count unarmed and ranged skills 13:21:32 unarmed is funky 13:22:16 I don't see swapping as all that bad, really, and the fact that some schools have swapping possibilities in-school and some don't looks nice to me (also, the possibilities are different for different schools) 13:22:17 imo unarmed should be less about crazy raw damage and more about interesting special moves 13:22:34 staves has crushing/slicing, polearms has piercing/chopping, m&f has slashing/crushing/piercing 13:22:54 when weapon special moves are in UC should get some too 13:22:59 monqy: yeah, sounds good to me - I think it's about transmutations and confusing touch myself ;) 13:23:02 share tripping with whips 13:23:12 trips with dex 13:23:14 constriction (grappling) 13:23:15 grapples and throws with str 13:23:19 esp for nagas 13:23:26 yeah 13:24:29 -!- xyblor has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:01 -!- xyblor has left ##crawl-dev 13:25:09 special unarmed moves would also make for a reason to actually train unarmed alongside a weapon skill 13:26:39 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:41 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:38 crush+pierce for spiky m&f looks pretty good actually 13:38:22 leads to the skill being bad against two monster categories, but versatile otherwise 13:38:45 would it get a spiffy name for vorpal display? 13:39:51 alternatively, don't display damage types on vorpal weapons (just "vorpal") 13:40:54 back 13:45:07 Keskitalo: I like the idea of melding shields 13:45:29 Keskitalo: woudn't worry about players losing turns. A typo can kill your game anyhow. 13:48:06 how much delay does removing a large shield cost? changing armour is non-interruptable 13:48:14 monqy: better to differentiate types, if you ask me. 13:48:39 to what is that a reply? 13:49:04 monqy: your last one :) 13:49:59 well you could still differentiate them, but in that case, I don't think it'd be any more for it to display on a vorpal weapon than non-vorpal 13:50:35 unless vorpal gets revamped as well (which would be nice, considering how boring it is at the moment) 13:51:16 pointless_: have you seen Iainuki's Trog splat? 13:51:40 trog wrath while changing armor as I recall? was that a shield? 13:52:03 yes 13:52:15 he was taking off a large shield to test a 2her 13:52:19 ey 13:59:55 monqy: Any good suggestions for a spiffy name? "of impaling"? 14:00:08 "of bludgeoning"? (feels blunt) 14:00:16 "of mutilating"? :) 14:00:16 suggestions, yes; good suggestions, no :( 14:00:26 pointless_: large shields take a lot of time 14:00:56 monqy: Pretty tricky one, I think! 14:01:01 chrushpiercing is the best I could muster :( 14:01:14 meatgrinding 14:01:17 monqy: here's a suggestion for vorpal: whatever your weapon's effect is, it kicks in more often 14:02:07 Eronarn: Yeah, I'd like something like that 14:02:39 re: my proposal, "of crushing" could be that it makes the bonus against hard and brittle constructs larger - not just a flat damage boost against all monsters 14:03:05 (although making something more interesting happen more often would be more interesting than that) 14:08:40 * dpeg is sad that the tutorial is only played by the Ploog siblings. 14:09:44 don't worry, you'll get better. maybe if you play the tutorial enough times you'll be able to get further than D:1 14:10:21 I played through the tutorial once (as squarelos because I have a game going on) 14:10:38 a bit more than once because I died so much 14:10:39 squarelos <3 14:11:46 monqy: but we need the feedbackse! 14:12:09 I found a tiny bug, at least 14:12:29 09:49:33 < monqy> _Found two exit from the tutorials. 14:14:37 monqy: did you mention that somewhere? (so that jpeg can see it) 14:15:19 where should I report it? is there a category for tutorial on the tracker or should I put it on the wiki? 14:15:29 just anywhere? 14:17:23 BR on mantis I imagine 14:18:00 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:11 Keskitalo: cool stuff on your wiki page, wasn't aware of that 14:23:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28:50 dpeg: Yeah, just wrote it up and posted here before you came back in :) thanks! 14:30:16 I'll try to give the tutorials go tomorrow, can't guarantee it though 14:30:31 dpeg: but they'll get a lot of testing soon! :) 14:30:58 dpeg: been scribbling on the notebook about the damage types for a while now, thought it was ready for the personal page 14:31:20 03j-p-e-g * r171345619f27 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add tutorial triggers for healing potions and identifying inaccuracy. 14:31:51 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:25 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:47 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:54 Keskitalo: just holdings hand of daughter to make her sleep something occurred to me 14:42:14 your system somehow requires that we teach the matrix to players... which can be done, but is cumbersome 14:42:35 use attack descriptors 14:43:13 what about this system: slashing weapons are better against creatures with a soft spot, but instead of a universal approach do it like this: a slashing weapon has a chance (depending non-linearly on weapon skill) to deliver a critical hit to such a monster 14:44:43 unrelated stuff that just occurred to me: remove speed brand; give pain brand only to certain basic weapon types (dagger, hand axe, scythe among them) 14:46:01 whip? 14:46:05 yes! 14:46:23 my point is that Pain would be restricted to basic weapons 14:46:28 demon whip? 14:46:57 demon whip is hardly basic, but by the time you find a dwhip of pain it won't be of much use anyway 14:47:05 very rare even on hell knights too right 14:47:13 not on demon whips 14:47:31 but they're whips 14:48:12 no reason it would become less pain-y by being demon'd 14:49:13 oh I guess it might be hell knights & anything else that gets a hell knight weapon 14:49:17 gameplay not flavour (I can rationalise this, but that's not the point right now) 14:49:54 +1 to remove speed brand 14:51:13 btw have you played wesnoth? enemies have different resistance (armour) to slashing, piercing and crushing attacks there 14:51:30 speed brand is just a complicated damage brand (complicated as in: it is harder to estimate the total effect( 14:51:31 the pain change doesn't do much, the ay people get pain are from pikel/grinder (whip/dagger/club already) and kiku (whatever you like) 14:51:49 speed is just an overpowered damage brand 14:51:55 it's just 2* damage 14:52:11 2* damage but with the same number of keypresses :( 14:52:52 not quite with funky rounding (when applicable) though 14:53:33 like dwhips and sabres of speed going to 3 instead of 2.5 14:53:34 yeah 14:53:51 on removing speed, what of cap's cutlass, skullcrusher, and any other speedy unrands? 14:54:05 arga 14:54:14 monqy: can be repaired in other ways 14:54:55 nothing wrong with cutlass or arga or skullcrusher imo 14:56:13 03j-p-e-g * r8cf13789c285 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Fix mispluralisation of staircases/gateways. (#3014, monqy) 15:00:49 "If you're lucky enough to score a potion of experience early on, as soon as it says 'You have reached level ##!' Quit the game, then reload. You get the level, but nothing is consumed." 15:01:03 does that work online 15:01:09 hilarious 15:02:53 dpeg: fwiw, I favor this approach: pain only comes from randarts/uniques/kiku/spell; fix draining brand so that it is the 'common' necro brand (and actually worth using) 15:03:22 make draining cripple enemies instead of doing permanent (scummable) damage? 15:03:34 temporarily cripple, I mean 15:03:45 someone said MP on hit which sounds useful 15:03:58 monqy: yes, it definitely needs to be non-scummable 15:05:31 one thing that it could do is drain stats: implement some placeholder monster str/dex/int, and it hurts the monster while it gives boosts to the player (is it random? does it depend on the player's highest stat? does it do all equally?) 15:06:16 03j-p-e-g * r6b8353f704ef 10/crawl-ref/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Disallow barding generation in the tutorial. 15:06:18 -!- Mu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:23 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:36 draining is worth using 15:07:48 only for scummy purposes 15:07:52 no 15:08:18 may be scummable, but it is certainly usable as is 15:08:40 i don't think anyone that knows what the brand does uses it seriously 15:08:43 would it be practical to make lost HD and whatever else grow back over time? 15:08:54 Eronarn: I do 15:08:55 if it's worth using as-is, of course 15:13:57 hmm... what do i actually need to call to get something to exercise properly 15:17:52 also... anyone know if i can just add together the ABFLAG values in abl-show.cc to get multiple bits checked? 15:18:07 (i.e., an ability that requires breath *and* has a delay) 15:24:06 don't know, sorry 15:30:55 ah hah, found the problem 15:31:02 it needs to return true to train 15:32:04 or wait, maybe not... vitalization is training 15:38:39 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 15:39:32 Eronarn: you can combine flags using a bitwise or, which is | in c++ 15:40:19 pointless_: yeah, i just wasn't sure if stuff later in the pipe would choke on it - but it looks lke it's handled properly, just that we don't currently have any abilities that do have muliple costs like that 15:41:31 if you look at the code using the flags, it's of the form (flags & ABFLAG_whatever), which is how you would typically use a bitmask 15:45:42 morning 15:46:55 greensnark, Napkin, oops, sorry about the subfolder thingy. Didn't realise it was used for standar DGL builds. 15:47:09 mmh? 15:47:17 "subfolder"? 15:47:40 The compile error you had earlier. 15:47:52 ~7 hours ago. 15:48:03 ah, i didn't 15:48:07 mac only problem ;) 15:48:18 but i had to make sure not to use the wizard make target 15:48:24 because it was adding DEBUG 15:48:37 btw... moin due! :) 15:48:45 Huh, really? 15:49:02 wow, i can't for the life of me figure out why recite isn't training :| 15:49:04 I thought wizard didn't include debug. 15:49:27 yeah, there is some findstring in the makefile 15:49:33 gah. 15:49:35 anyways, using WIZARD=YesPlease now :) 15:49:39 <3! 15:49:44 and, decided against mysql access in chroot 15:49:51 okay 15:50:00 text file with accepted usernames? ;) 15:50:07 no way! :D 15:50:07 you could generate the file whenever you udpate crawl. 15:50:29 how are you doing it, then? 15:51:01 created a view and feeding the dgl user sqlite db with it during the night 15:51:04 > cat /var/lib/dgamelaunch/sbin/update-userdb.sh 15:51:09 mysql --silent --skip-column-names -u dgl -e "select * from mantis_crawl.developers" | while read dev; do echo "update dglusers set flags=1 where username=\"$dev\";"; done | sqlite3 /var/lib/dgamelaunch/dgldir/data/passwd.db3 15:51:30 --- 15:51:39 and all with flags=1 can use wizard mode :) 15:52:10 :D 15:52:22 _if_ the account on cdo's dgl == account in mantis 15:52:54 but i can also set flags manually - that's part of the reason i decided against a direct mysql query 15:53:03 that makes sense 15:53:54 like... "Matthew Cline" - impossible account name in dgl ;) 15:54:02 :) 15:54:16 yes, that does makes a proble 15:54:17 and i added access to the tutorial 15:55:04 reminds me 15:55:27 greensnark said logfile entries are suppressed when wizard mode is on 15:55:31 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:35 milestone entries are just marked 15:55:44 could you make them be suppressed too? 15:55:51 just to be on the safe side? 15:56:01 okay 15:56:05 there is so much stuff parsing the milestones and logfiles already 15:57:09 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:25 ok 15:57:26 feedback on tutorial 1: why does the tutorial mention arrow keys for movement :/ 15:57:42 +1,+8 rings of slaying are being generated. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3270) by elliptic 15:58:09 casmith789: because people use arrow keys. 15:58:37 the game shouldn't encourage it 15:58:49 I imagine it mentions numpad and hjklyubn too though 15:58:49 interesting, shift-3 doesn't work 15:59:03 TGWi: only afterwards though 16:03:22 hehe, no complaints to megabats? 16:03:33 megabats are awful 16:03:41 I agree 16:03:51 hummm, weird... zin recite is returning false 16:04:07 due: a fair number of people on ##crawl seemed to think megabats were a joke or something ;) 16:04:52 galehar: why? 16:05:19 the fog generators in the tutorial seem a little excessive 16:05:23 oh, hmm... does start_delay actually start the next turn instantly? 16:05:26 I think most people don't know that megabats are real things 16:05:33 that might explain why it never gets to the skill training 16:05:35 I do not get in what universe "giant X" is ever interesting. 16:05:37 the rest of them think that megabat is a ridiculous name regardless 16:05:37 now I do know that they're real 16:05:41 I don't know, it sounds silly to me 16:05:42 they're still ridiculous 16:05:44 yep 16:05:50 galehar: sillier than "giant bat"? 16:05:54 yes 16:05:55 yes 16:05:55 yes 16:06:02 regardless, aren't there better bat names? 16:06:10 "is better" does not imply "is good" 16:06:27 Well, you've got megabats, get used to it :) 16:06:48 03j-p-e-g * rebd4d1567a8e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson3.des: A few more tutorial tweaks. 16:06:54 also, the tutorial really shouldn't be advising wasting a potion of healing whenever you get poisoned 16:07:14 I much prefer giant bat but maybe because I'm used to it 16:07:26 "giant bat" makes you think of a bat that is giant 16:07:35 how about just "bat" 16:07:35 it's bland but useful 16:07:43 "bat" is what I suggested 16:07:46 or "fruit bat" 16:07:52 Because megabat was possible. 16:07:53 "megabat" sounds like a joke 16:07:54 bat is good 16:07:59 Anyway, I am going to dig m yheels on megabat. 16:08:12 megabat is like death cob and killer klown; it should be in Zot 16:09:03 I have to agree megabat does sound pretty ridiculous 16:09:10 sorry due :( 16:09:32 Well, y'all will get used to it. 16:09:40 why 16:09:51 Because I refuse to change it back? 16:10:04 my main worry about megabat is how new players who think it sounds ridiculous will react... you are right that people can get used to it 16:10:13 "you will eventually stop complaining" is not a reason that something is good 16:10:24 and it's one of the first monster new players meet 16:10:39 galehar: yeah 16:10:45 make a new megabat monster and put it in zot 16:10:45 just leave it in, and eventually it could be changed if the dev team decides to 16:10:58 no reason not to try it :) 16:11:19 TGWi: "because five people don't like it" is not a reason something is bad. 16:11:36 elliptic: I don't think that is an issue. 16:11:40 "trying it" can be done by asking "hey, how about calling them 'megabats?' " 16:11:46 elliptic: They'll die quickly enough. 16:12:05 lol 16:12:10 TGWi: I did that about nine or ten weeks ago and the majority of people I spoke to were pretty cool with it. 16:12:25 I think it will grow on people 16:12:32 purge: Yes, my thoughts precisely. 16:12:55 due: what is the description of a megabat when you xv it? 16:12:57 what's wrong with "bat" again? 16:13:31 having a decent description there making it clear that it is a real thing might help 16:13:36 TGWi: trying it by pushing it to trunk is perfectly ok 16:13:36 we can always revert it 16:14:11 "A huge black bat". 16:14:30 most people will parse it as "giant bat" but more ridiculous 16:14:33 It always amuses me how fixated people get on stupid, silly things. 16:14:45 it amuses me how fixated you are on this stupid, silly name 16:15:08 So anyway. 16:15:12 Unstealthy orcs! 16:15:15 old tutorial says "evoke the wand with V" when really it means "kill yourself with fireball" :P 16:15:15 due: you asked! 16:15:35 galehar: I was attempting to determine what the current opinion was. 16:15:58 galehar: Not to be told over and over and over again how stupid and silly it is, and how stupid and silly I was for even *thinking* of it to start with. 16:16:18 Anyway, the problem with unstealthy orcs is that we don't have a "random position adjacent to X" function. 16:16:41 And likewise the }s move around the area of the monster when you hit or the screen is refreshed. 16:16:47 So I don't think that is a viable option. 16:17:02 generate a random index into compass? 16:17:53 pointless_: Yes, might write a utility function that does this though. However, my current issue is that show.cc updates map knowledge every refresh regardless. 16:18:08 So you can basically hold until you work out where the invisible monster is. 16:18:27 store a "possible squares" variable in the invisibility itself and update that each time the monster acts? 16:18:55 just use a hash keyed by turn and location 16:19:03 like what kilobyte did for trees, sort of 16:19:11 ah hah, that was the problem 16:19:26 sorear: doesn't that then make it deterministic? 16:19:27 abilities that trigger start_delay will never train 16:20:15 due: no more so than our RNG inherently is 16:20:20 hm, okay 16:20:47 What's the sanest way to do hashes in C++ then? I've never before. 16:23:44 it's a matter of coming up with a hash function... I never happen to remember a good one, though. 16:24:24 meh. 16:24:27 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:27 a guaranteed to be good ones include all cryptographic hashes, includes ones ridiculously weak like crc32 16:24:28 * due googles. 16:24:31 -!- Textmode has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:34 that's slow to calculate, though 16:24:46 is crc32 an issue, though? 16:24:54 the salt is the monster position 16:24:58 which the player doesn't know 16:25:20 and can't work out because map positions aren't known 16:25:34 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:41 no, you don't want cryptography, just good mixing 16:28:10 I am in your capable hands :) 16:28:49 can't you reuse the tree code? 16:29:08 or just use rng seeding 16:29:10 sorear: that hash is intentionally bad, producing visible patterns 16:29:16 not that it matters much 16:29:22 rng seeding _is_ important, though 16:30:00 back in the good old days randarts stored a 31 bit value in special rather than a prop hash 16:30:07 no matter how good hash you have, once the player can get his coordinates, it's easy to get where the monster is 16:30:28 when the game needed to query an artifact, it saved the seed, seeded the RNG with the .special, and rolled values 16:30:55 shop names still work that way 16:31:05 so is it just better to only update } glyphs when you move, not when refreshing? 16:31:42 what do you mean by refreshing? 16:32:16 control-R 16:32:29 16:18 <+due> So you can basically hold until you work out where the invisible monster is. 16:33:32 is it me or did jpeg broke something? 16:33:33 dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson3.des:412: bad spec: '^1234 = floor_swamp' in '^1234 = floor_swamp' 16:34:05 TGWi: Sorry. Sometimes I can't reasonably disengage myself from arguments. I should've just left it, not quieted you. 16:34:27 the full line is: FTILE: .{})=^1234 = floor_swamp, t = floor_grass 16:34:35 due: you can quiet people client side, too 16:34:45 /help ignore 16:35:42 galehar: The = needs to come at the beginning. 16:35:59 galehar: And I don't thin kyou can do , t = blah, you might need that on the new line. 16:36:10 galehar: so make it =.{})^1234 = floor_swmap 16:36:21 sorear: Yes, I dislike ignore, though, on principle. 16:36:29 due ok, thanks 16:36:39 kilobyte, sorear, all of this is moot; it has to be deterministic, as map knowledge isn't saved between games. 16:36:54 So you could just save and reload a dozen times to cycle through every possible random position. 16:37:45 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37:52 so it should probably be decoupled from map kknowledge and set some other way. 16:38:12 due: I meant rolling a seed, not the values 16:38:13 03galehar * rf7c7cb55533d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson3.des: Fix a typo in tutorial3. 16:38:27 kilobyte: yes 16:38:40 kilobyte: i meant my coments about just not updating map knowledge every refresh 16:38:45 kilobyte: sorry, unclearness becomes me today 16:38:49 there could be either a game-wide seed that you can calculate level seeds from, or a per-level seed, used for things like this 16:38:50 due: if you use a hash function (like our RNG in seeded mode), it WILL BE deterministic 16:39:01 sorear: yes 16:39:08 also 16:39:19 I think I added something like this for the combat messaging? 16:39:25 so what hash function should I use? 16:40:09 WRT the tutorial, I think the new one is good but doesn't teach you about everything. 'tis better than the old new one though 16:45:24 03due * r8eaf1f23905e 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Nerf PDA to AC 10, EV -3. 16:45:32 sha256? 16:45:36 what was PDA before? 16:45:40 the gentlest nerf. 16:45:41 AC 10 EV -2. 16:45:51 Mu_: I was chatting with dpeg about it last tnight 16:46:13 is it more a cool rarity like crystal plate than a typical dragon armour 16:46:28 i guess pearl dragons wont be common 16:46:31 It can drop to AC 9 EV -3 before 0.8 is released if necessary. 16:46:39 Mu_: I culd make them common but people would die screaming 16:47:27 due: you seem to have forgotten the Crawl Ethos 16:47:44 sorear: Which is? 16:47:57 pearl dragons belong on d:2 16:48:04 yeah! 16:48:05 :DDD 16:48:14 we need to actually generate them somewhere, too 16:48:14 they can't be much worse than storm dragons or yaktaur captains 16:48:15 due: give pearl dragons the ability to ENCH_MUTE the player and then they won't die screaming 16:48:21 let sigmund ride one like those spriggan riders 16:48:32 sorear: they win vs Pan lords 80% of the time 16:48:35 what the heck! "No valid temples." 16:48:55 kilobyte: that's just elemental rock paper scissors? 16:49:02 due * r9114eff387gc /crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc Generate pearl dragons on D:2 (sorear, et al) 16:49:40 Apparnetly I fooled no-one. 16:49:45 okay, zin recite now trains invoc, shows its effects on monsters, and does some other stuff that it didn't before 16:50:01 hehe, due :> 16:50:03 anything demonic or undead is demolished by them. They fare worse against enemies without a holy vulnerability, but are not weak either. 16:50:10 you needed the colour and boldness due :( 16:50:11 you need to work on your irc coloring skills ;) 16:50:18 casmith789, Napkin, meh. 16:50:23 The helpless yaktaur is lost in a daze 16:50:35 Eronarn: wherefore punctuation :( 16:50:36 The yak gores itself? 16:50:45 due: lost on copy 16:50:52 Oh, okay 16:51:14 though i am not sure why they are being considered helpless 16:51:43 maybe it's that helpless bug, did that get fixed yet 16:52:20 I fixed it yes 16:52:26 Eronarn: i imagine some status effect is making them be marked as helples 16:53:00 they get the status only when you hit them normally 16:53:08 Here: An orc, wielding a glowing orcish short sword, and wearing an orcish 16:53:08 ring mail (permanently mute) 16:53:26 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:28 yeah i didn't hit them and also i didn't put any status on them that would make them helpless afaik 16:53:43 maybe they confused themselves earlier, hit themselves, became helpless, and it got stuck on? hmm 16:53:58 hmmm... 16:54:39 03due * r41c4e1c773be 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-stealth.cc wiz-mon.cc): Fix monster stealth, report when generate monster stats in WizMode. 16:55:29 the fake enchantment is added in melee_attack::player_hits_monster 16:55:55 given the name of the function, one might think it's only used for player's attack, but who knows... 16:56:17 ah hah 16:56:34 there's entries in mon-info.cc for bleeding, but MB_BLEED never gets set 16:56:35 * Eronarn fixes 16:57:45 I can't start a game with trunk, I get: "No valid temples." 16:58:05 Here: A cyan ugly thing (lightly wounded, sick, bleeding, chaotic) 16:59:21 galehar: Did you delete temple.des? 16:59:55 no 17:00:42 galehar: did you had any failed rebuilds of the db recently? Or even _interrupted_ ones. 17:00:54 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 17:01:06 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:09 galehar: did you had any failed rebuilds of the db recently? Or even _interrupted_ ones. 17:01:12 oops 17:01:24 removing my save folder solved the problem 17:01:31 so it looks like that 17:01:46 we really should fix that bug before 0.8 17:01:48 is it possible to get the recite patch into the next CDO build? 17:02:57 both db and des files suffer from this, even though their code is mostly separate 17:05:16 Eronarn: it doesn't seem to be merged yet 17:06:04 kilobyte: that's why i'm asking :) i don't have access... unless you mean just a reroll of the patch for current trunk - i'm doing that now 17:07:41 I'm afraid I didn't follow the discussion closely... so I could do at most a code review 17:09:08 -!- jpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:10 well, will definitely need it, i am an awful coder 17:09:31 i know for sure of one spot where the code should be something else, i couldn't figure out how to use markers properly 17:09:36 WRT the tutorial, I think the new one is good but doesn't teach you about everything 17:09:45 casmith789: anything in particular you think is missing? 17:09:58 (keeping in mind I haven't yet gotten around to spells or gods) 17:10:03 Ah. 17:10:11 well I was going to mention those :P 17:10:40 also, due: what's wrong with storing the "pretend" position in the monster props? 17:11:02 casmith789: :) anything else? 17:11:58 hm. the end of Tutorial 3 was a bit weird 17:12:45 I think it should probably have explicitly asked you to use the sling to fire across water, and the unrandart cloak was non obvious after killing the kobolds (it being under their corpses) 17:13:50 casmith789: how do you fire? ff or differently? (and no, this is not a rhethorical question) 17:13:56 f. normally 17:13:59 I have an issue with the new tutorial: I can't play it! Somehow, it doesn't ask me for a map and throws me in the old one 17:14:31 galehar: odd... local or on cdo? 17:14:42 local 17:14:43 about the cloak, true, maybe I should put it on the stairs... 17:14:44 oh, it does mention the sling 17:15:00 but I'm having a bad night I think... 17:15:12 galehar: because of this? o_O 17:15:21 Eronarn: wasn't dolorous dealing with recite? Or am I totally off? 17:15:34 I want to playtest the tutorial, but I keep running into bugs that prevent me to 17:15:48 galehar: might be a database error, maps not correctly read in or something 17:15:55 galehar: you can play it online 17:16:15 you _do_ have four files in the des/tutorial directory, right? 17:16:30 kilobyte: yes, but he hasn't done much with it in a while and there are no clear plans afaik; he's seen the patch i posted and generally approves / posted some specific feedback 17:16:59 Keskitalo did a recite patch, but that's fixing some bugs with the existing ability, so it's not really a full rework 17:17:32 evening folk! 17:18:13 The rakshasa melts away into a sizzling puddle of chaotic flesh. 17:18:13 You kill the rakshasa! 17:18:13 The rakshasa is limned with silver light. 17:18:13 The rakshasa roars! 17:18:17 uhm... so I'd review and massage the code but won't merge it into master without talking with them then 17:18:36 limned? 17:18:38 oh, Ero's antics remind me: why was the digging message changed? 17:19:04 people were complaining that it doesn't make noise 17:19:10 but making it make noise would screw with stalker 17:19:16 so the flavour changed instead 17:19:17 after removing my saves directory (again...) it works. I'm having a bad night. Not writing a single line of code! 17:19:21 so now it melts? 17:19:28 yeah 17:19:35 instead of 'grinding noise' 17:19:37 !coffee galehar 17:19:38 * Henzell hands galehar a mug of café mocha, brewed by Xtahua. 17:19:59 not that I mind, just wondering 17:20:16 kilobyte: illuminated 17:20:59 Eronarn: limned <3 17:21:38 Okay ,I'm happy with this mechanism I just need to make it deterministicc. 17:21:39 jpeg_: I made the change when I overhauled the spell casting noises, for all the reasons TGWi said 17:22:23 uint32_t seed = static_cast(cshop->keeper_name[0]) 17:22:24 | (static_cast(cshop->keeper_name[1]) << 8) 17:22:24 | (static_cast(cshop->keeper_name[1]) << 16); 17:22:27 That's shops. 17:22:41 galehar: I thought I'd accidentally evoked fire :) 17:22:41 ' 28 files changed, 1514 insertions(+), 213 deletions(-)' 17:22:45 I'm assuming x, y and turns would suffice? 17:24:09 not sure about turns, what if the monster is right next to you in an open area and doesn't move away? 17:24:32 jpeg_: This is just the seed for the RNG. 17:24:34 okay... it's probably realistic that you'd eventually work out where the hits are coming from 17:25:00 sorear, kilobyte: is uint32_t seed = static_cast(gp.x) | static_cast (apart from the typo) 17:25:09 due: is it getting stored somewhere? 17:25:17 no 17:25:31 what is gp? 17:25:38 Monster's position. 17:25:53 so the turn _does_ matter, but it's not a big deal 17:26:00 jpeg_: Yes, exactly. 17:26:18 what do you then do with the seed? 17:26:50 I've no idea, actually. I'm currently investigating how to seed the RNG and then reset it. 17:27:13 it'll probably be used in a hash or something 17:27:28 rng_save_excursion. 17:28:01 the save excursion then seeding with a 32 bit value are slow and counterproductive 17:28:23 no need to use a big random generator with such a small seed 17:28:36 This is honestly all beyond my skills, unfortunately. 17:28:46 Would it be better if I pushed it and someone else could fix teh seeding? 17:28:59 I considered getting rid of all rng excursions but never got around to it 17:29:04 :D 17:29:11 * due goes on an RNG excursion, takes map, etc. 17:29:52 sure, we can improve it, just say what kind of hash do you need 17:31:13 "I don't know" 17:33:15 kilobyte: I think I understand what you meant and I have put a comment in 17:33:18 * due pushed. 17:33:44 03due * r327de4d6d4c4 10/crawl-ref/source/show.cc: Sometimes hint at the location of invisible monsters. 17:37:42 jpeg_: the new exclusion tile is very hard to see over water and almost impossible when there is a cloud over it. 17:39:02 galehar: it used to be displayed on top of monsters (and thus, clouds) 17:39:10 might be better in some intermediary layer 17:41:12 okay, two patches, that's enough for today 17:41:19 now time for dinner! and then actual work! 17:42:23 "meh 17:43:13 Minor flavor text update for Gehenna. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3271) by Eronarn 17:44:47 Lesson 2: you're told that to attack a monster you just walk into it. I guess people will just try to click on it if you do, nothing happens. If you take a step and try again, "a training dummy is nearby!". This is going to be very confusing 17:45:40 galehar: i agree, and of course the proper solution is to fix the behaviour, not the tutorial 17:45:41 Hey cool 17:46:05 autofight takes one step closer, and mouseclick travel with monsters around should do the same 17:47:23 galehar: thanks for the comments, I'm taking notes :) 17:48:26 I never play with the mouse, but doing the tutorial with it (as many new players are going to do) can be surprising 17:49:35 Is there any reason not to add the new Frederick tile? 17:50:04 due: I'm waiting for someone to do it who *really* likes it 17:50:08 for example, just after the training dummies, you kill the rat, are told about choping up corpse, pickup up the short sword. Then, you click on the rat corpse and your travel is interrupted by the other blue square which repeats the thing about chopping corpses. 17:50:11 jpeg_: Which would be me ): 17:50:13 *:) 17:50:47 galehar: oh right, I hardly do travel by mouseclick 17:51:06 maybe I should replace some of the fixed markers with situational triggers... 17:51:31 so you'd only get the message while actually standing on a corpse while hungry 17:51:37 03due * r7912d1ee6180 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ziggurat.des: Fix #3265: Mark all Ziggurat entrances as no_rtele_into. 17:51:37 03due * ra7cddb529a8d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/test.des: Test portal vault: pvault_test, pvault_test_a. 17:52:03 03due * r8e692f2806a4 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/unique/frederick.png: Resolve #3036: use Curio's new Frederick tile. 17:52:16 galehar: that's great, keep those comments coming! <3 17:52:55 argh, I hate how I have to "clear" the screen after recompiling console 17:53:05 jpeg_: or maybe the blue square should gives its hint only once. No repeat when you go over again (you can always read the log) 17:53:14 I always forget to do this, every single time 17:53:16 Stuck in room (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3272) by Hety 17:53:46 would it be unbearable if blue squares forced a -more-? It's kind of weird autoexploring over them 17:53:47 galehar: not sure about that - the big advantage of the fixed messages is that you can go back and reread them 17:54:03 but of course it doesn't make sense for a lot of them, e.g. if the item is no longer lying there 17:55:40 well, for the 2 about butchering, you have to go over them again after having eaten the rat 17:55:52 so if you travel with the mouse, it's weird 17:55:58 you can also change the layout 17:56:20 I agree that it _is_ a problem 17:56:53 for example, I can't reasonably explain about X< because these markers keep getting in the way 17:58:40 the best way is probably to add a new type of marker that gets cleared once it got triggered 17:58:47 or does that already exist? 17:59:13 I don't know, but I agree that it is the way to go 18:00:09 training dummies shouldn't have any resistances. They are irrelevant and make their description intimidating. 18:00:15 mouseclick travel with monsters around is probably more important, though - higher priority 18:00:30 galehar: too right, I was wondering about that myself 18:00:43 I doubt they're used anywhere else, so it doesn't even matter 18:00:52 @?? training dummy 18:00:52 training dummy (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 6 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Damage: 1 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2. 18:01:16 it was probably copied over from the test spawner or some other dummy statue 18:01:31 sorear: thanks! :D 18:01:38 ? 18:01:43 What did I do this time? 18:01:56 sorear: everything 18:02:18 sorear: I was about to check mon-data.h but that way was quicker :) 18:03:37 jpeg_: oh, part of linux.conf.au next week includes a talk on automatic text generation :D 18:03:58 great, I hope you're taking notes! :) 18:04:16 due: oh, and I've been meaning to ask whether you've given any thought to the IO routines 18:04:34 using pygame or pycurses or ... 18:04:42 jpeg_: actually, urwid :) 18:04:46 http://excess.org/urwid 18:05:09 I haven't got a clue (no pun intended), which is why I'm asking 18:05:28 also, I bought another Christie novel last week, which is obviously entirely your fault 18:05:29 :D 18:05:31 jpeg_: urwid is a much, much nicer layer on top of curses, basically -- though it doesn't use curse.s 18:05:34 :D! which novel? 18:05:46 Hickory, Dickory, Dock - I loved it 18:06:00 ... and I actually loved out loud when they found a hair 18:06:27 *laughed out loud :P 18:06:29 hehehe 18:06:43 That's actually one I've never read. 18:07:14 you didn't? I thought you'd read all of them! 18:07:34 -!- edlothiol has left ##crawl-dev 18:08:07 it occured to me that, for no real reason, the few books I've read all feature Poirot 18:08:31 I've read a *lot* of them, but not all :0 18:08:33 *:) 18:08:42 probably impossible :) 18:09:19 so 5 hashes isn't enough spell power to move the orb these days? Well I never... 18:09:46 due: anyway, it was really good - I was as far off the track as it's possible to be :) 18:10:17 I'm getting the Yoink! message, but the orb doesn't move, does that mean the distance traveled is rounding down to 0? 18:11:10 pointless_: I think you need 20 power to move it at all, I forget how much 5 hashes is 18:11:43 ?? spell power[4] 18:11:43 spell power[4/5]: Got bars (#)? You have at least 0, 6, 11, 16, 26, 36, 51, 76, 101, 151 power. 18:11:44 pointless_: Are you getting a message? 18:11:49 not sure if that's accurate 18:12:04 I get Yoink!, then the orb yells 18:12:13 If it becomes a dead weight, you failed the 1-in-6 chance. 18:12:28 well I saw that once but even without that message it's not moving 18:12:34 hm. 18:12:39 @whereis pointless 18:12:40 pointless the Eclecticist (L26 KeCj), a worshipper of Fedhas, is currently on Zot:5 after 165444 turns. 18:12:47 * due tunes in. 18:12:50 so is Yoink! the sound of pulling, whether it works or not? 18:12:57 jpeg_: Yes, now it is. 18:13:09 Might need to change that... 18:13:15 pointless_: maybe try moving until you are next to the orb? 18:13:28 :( I don't want to 18:13:38 What's your spell power? 18:13:54 Can you do a dump? 18:14:02 @dump 18:14:03 No where information for pointless_. 18:14:08 @dump pointless 18:14:08 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/pointless/pointless.txt 18:15:09 I'll try it out locally 18:16:21 Yeah, local test implies that your power is only about 30 or so. 18:16:45 maybe give a message 18:16:55 due: but shouldn't 30 power be enough? 18:16:59 isn't there already something about the orb actively resisting? 18:17:06 elliptic: Yes, it seems buggy somehow 18:17:07 to move it 2 squares? 18:17:10 yeah 18:18:11 I moved it 1 square, when adjacent to it 18:18:18 (this is not actually useful) 18:18:24 yes 18:18:24 my guess would be that it currently only moves the orb when it can move it all the way towards you 18:18:34 elliptic: No, I tested that 18:18:41 elliptic: With power around 50 or so, it moves the orb partway. 18:18:59 so maybe it _is_ a rounding error? 18:19:09 yeah 18:19:11 it is 18:19:36 power 28 = will only move one. 18:20:22 which should bbe move three 18:20:51 what? I thought power 28 was supposed to move it only one square at a time 18:21:19 er, two 18:21:38 i was removing 1 from the wrong number 18:22:21 so in this instance the solution is to jus tnot remove anything 18:23:00 wasn't the problem that it wasn't moving one square, not something with the formula? 18:24:43 yeah 18:24:58 it would only move one squar when it was next to you 18:27:56 ah 18:27:59 the issue is with path_taken 18:28:05 it includes the orb's position 18:28:25 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 18:28:36 03j-p-e-g * rf2dface36ca7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson2.des: Still more tweaks. 18:28:37 03j-p-e-g * r44e45e5cd19f 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Don't take corpses into account for the multi pickup hint. 18:28:39 03j-p-e-g * rf0125bd56640 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial_lesson3.des: Remove unnecessary '=' glyph. 18:28:41 03j-p-e-g * r1a379c4e95fc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (items.cc state.cc state.h stuff.cc): New game state function: game_is_hints_tutorial(), covering both. 18:28:45 03j-p-e-g * r9cd6168701ed 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Remove resistance flags from training dummy. 18:28:50 03j-p-e-g * r1aa80810b0a7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (26 files): Replace the clunky hints_left counter with a game type check. 18:34:09 now, bed 18:34:17 night! 18:34:25 Zzzzzzzzzzz... 18:35:06 -!- jpeg_ has quit [] 18:43:31 New lair floor tiles. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3273) by co 18:44:20 Actually, I really like that. 18:47:17 looks very clean 18:47:47 i always pictured the floor as grass though?? 18:47:54 Well, yeah. 18:47:57 But I like it. 18:48:37 what does it look like now? 18:48:51 green puke iirc 18:49:02 it's fluorescent, yeah 18:49:21 fluorescent puke 18:49:31 due did you examine cigotuvi yet 18:49:32 :3 18:49:34 yaks need to stop eating glowsticks 18:49:44 Mu_: what do you mean examine cigotuvi? 18:49:51 fix it ;( 18:51:25 what's wrong with it? 18:51:40 the prisoners don't speak on cdo! 18:52:19 oh 18:52:52 -!- OG17 has quit [] 18:53:15 Napkin: I can't transfer my save nor can I play it :( 18:54:32 oh? explain 18:54:51 Napkin: i log in, go play, hit continue at the , it goes "starting " and then takes me back to the DGL menu. 18:55:08 ahh, because -wizard is not supported 18:55:15 in the old version you are playing ;) 18:55:21 hmm.. 18:55:24 ahh 18:55:26 just delete the game 18:55:34 i could add exceptions 18:55:37 no 18:55:41 @whereis bookofjude 18:55:42 bookofjude the Covered (L1 HuFi) saved on D:1 on 2010-12-31 after 0 turns. 18:55:50 --^ I'm never going to play that ;) 18:55:54 but there might be others 18:55:57 ok, go :) 18:55:59 hm, this is true 18:56:03 oh, milestones 18:58:53 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:41 bookofjude 18:59:41 Cryptic 18:59:41 doy 18:59:48 rob 18:59:51 --- 19:00:12 Napkin: hm, did you delete the save? it's still ... kinda broken. 19:00:16 -rob and -dpeg 19:00:34 no, can't you delete it from the a)dvanced options? 19:01:04 ohhhh 19:01:07 I didn't realise I could do that! :D 19:01:12 noob! ;) 19:01:14 :) 19:01:16 Lp 19:01:20 L:) 19:02:03 are bots supposed to track wizmode stuff? 19:02:04 Mu_: Well, they speak if you force them to. 19:02:04 @whereis Cryptic 19:02:04 Cryptic the Ripper (L14 FeBe), a worshipper of Trog, saved on D:11 on 2010-12-22 after 32468 turns. 19:02:17 OG17: I have to fix that 19:02:18 @whereis doy 19:02:19 doy the Pyromancer (L25 DEFE), a worshipper of Sif Muna, saved on D:19 on 2010-10-08 after 146110 turns. 19:02:25 @whereis galehar 19:02:25 galehar the Grave Robber (L1 VpNe) saved on D:1 on 2010-12-31 after 0 turns. 19:02:30 @whereis kilobyte 19:02:30 KiloByte the Blocker (L20 MDFi), a worshipper of Okawaru, saved on D:19 on 2011-01-12 after 57889 turns. 19:02:41 oh, they definitely want to continue playing, i'd say :D 19:03:40 03due * rd08492f127d3 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Resolve #3096, #3091: coolio's ancient zyme tile, co's lurking horror. 19:03:41 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:43 03due * r4f6fcfad69dc 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/UNUSED/other/eye_filled_portal.png: Stick co's eye filled portal tile in UNUSED, too. 19:03:44 03due * rb9983c94bd9a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Fixes for co's cracked_pipes sewer map. 19:03:50 03due * ra711d94a2f47 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Move the Orb at least one square for a successful apport. 19:03:51 03due * ra0c43b2ebb2a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (it_use2.cc item_use.cc): Fix #3245: Defer call to level_change() to prevent SIGHUP abuse. 19:03:52 03due * r99014256db21 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Fix #3225: don't list fizzing potions in identification screens. 19:04:03 03due * re8f1db765f1d 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: Don't mark milestones for Wizard-mode (Napkin). 19:04:18 Napkin: might need to update CDO now, but it shouldn't mark milestones for wiz-mode now. 19:04:24 Napkin: you might want to delete 19:04:25 !lm due 19:04:25 2668. [2011-01-23] bookofjude the Covered (L1 HuFi) entered Cigotuvi's Fleshworks on turn 1. (D:1) 19:04:28 ---^ 19:04:45 i dunno why the speech works for you :\ 19:04:54 it doesn't work when anyone gets the wizlab 19:05:10 Mu_: hm. I maybe wonder if it's something to do with wiz-mode. 19:05:14 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:47 you could see in the -tv i sent you shovelmint spent ages in front of them with nothing said, and they have that verbose option or whatever which means they should speak constantly like in your game they're saying a ton so it's not like it could just have been missed 19:05:47 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:14 Napkin: will update CDO :D 19:06:38 none of yours got 'the human shouts!' btw 19:06:44 yes, odd 19:07:16 okay, let's try a straight normal build 19:07:29 i can hack something into an entry vault and debug it there 19:09:37 thank you for looking into it 19:09:40 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:53 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4766-ge8f1db7 (32) 19:13:18 so... how do i add exceptions for the wizard mode...?! 19:13:30 Napkin: Not sure, but milestones are gone from Wizmode on CDO. :D 19:13:55 good :) 19:14:04 Can you delete my erroneous one? 19:14:05 !log 19:14:06 1351. bookofjude, XL1 FeNe, T:251: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/bookofjude/morgue-bookofjude-20101214-101627.txt 19:14:17 what about Eronarn's recite? 19:14:26 sorear: what about it? 19:14:39 ... is it going in to the CDO update? 19:15:30 probably not until it's reviewed 19:15:33 which is a hefty undertaking 19:16:06 not my purview? 19:17:42 kilo said not until dolorous gives it a thumbs up, which is fine by me, since i did just start doing it without asking/telling him 19:17:48 ok, milestone deleted 19:22:43 [01:21] looks like hints mode stuff is being generated in normal games 19:22:44 [01:21] I got another message on gaining traps skill 19:23:26 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:24:26 due? i guess that's related to enabling wizard mode? 19:24:40 casmith789: is that about CDO or local play? 19:24:49 CDO 19:24:55 ok 19:25:16 Not sure about the hints mode stuff. 19:25:24 !lm * 19:25:24 1443685. [2011-01-23] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 19:25:26 !lm * -2 19:25:26 1443684. [2011-01-23] gritty the Reanimator (L9 DSNe) killed Edmund on turn 9052. (D:7) 19:25:42 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:26:59 oh shit 19:27:05 greensnark? 19:27:14 It's an old game, 9ff1cff. 19:27:24 It's possibly due to the deleted milestone of mine. 19:27:42 !lm * src=cdo 19:27:46 351361. [2011-01-23] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 19:27:59 i forgot that sequell will go havoc when i modify the milestones :-$ 19:28:17 Further milestones ... should be okay I don't know. 19:28:27 You could always go and pop my bad one back in. 19:28:38 Anyway, I need to go out nnow, BBQ. 19:28:40 Back in a few hours. 19:28:47 enjoy :) 19:28:57 Just need to keep an eye on normal CDO milestones to see what happens. 19:29:01 ie get someone to go kill Ijyb or so :) 19:29:36 !tell greensnark I modified crawl-svn's milestones (deleted 5 lines) :-$ I forgot about sequell - could you please check up on him? 19:29:37 Napkin: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 19:30:51 !lm * src=cdo 19:30:51 351361. [2011-01-23] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 19:30:58 !lm * 19:30:58 1443691. [2011-01-23] Ponce the Chiller (L4 DEIE) killed Sigmund on turn 2891. (D:3) 19:31:19 !lm * 19:31:19 1443691. [2011-01-23] Ponce the Chiller (L4 DEIE) killed Sigmund on turn 2891. (D:3) 19:31:21 !lm * -2 19:31:21 1443690. [2011-01-23] Jaeger the Grappler (L13 GhFE) killed Joseph on turn 20671. (Orc:1) 19:31:30 !lm * -2 src=cdo 19:31:30 351360. [2011-01-23] mikee the Wrestler (L26 NaTm) entered the Pits of Slime on turn 93534. (Lair:6) 19:31:42 !lm * src=cdo 19:31:43 351361. [2011-01-23] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 19:32:03 !lm * -2 src=cdo 19:32:03 351365. [2011-01-23] Leibowitz the Cutter (L7 KoVM) killed Blork the orc on turn 6824. (D:6) 19:32:14 !lm * src=cdo 19:32:14 351366. [2011-01-23] mikee the Wrestler (L26 NaTm) reached level 6 of the Pits of Slime on turn 94828. (Slime:6) 19:34:54 -!- DarkGod has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:59 -!- st_ has quit [] 19:41:06 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:25:24 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:48 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:43 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:33 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 22:33:38 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:51 03greensnark * r151a8ba245a7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hiscores.cc main.cc): s/SCORE_WIZARD_MODE/SCORE_WIZARD_CHARACTERS/ 22:37:26 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 22:37:47 !lm * cdo name= 22:37:47 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:37:47 1. [2011-01-23] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 22:37:56 !lm * cdo name= x=fle 22:37:56 Unknown selector fle 22:37:59 !lm * cdo name= x=file 22:37:59 1. [2011-01-23] [file=remote.cdo-milestones-svn] the (L0 ) entered a Bailey on turn 10344. (D:8) 22:38:08 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:47 due: fake_noisy doesn't actually work because noise propagation is also killed by silenced zones 22:50:11 i.e. it's not just one check for silence at the source 23:04:36 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:06:29 shall I file a bug report for that tutorial bug thing 23:06:41 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:07 Tutorial bug? 23:07:22 still watching my game? have a look :p 23:07:29 Haha 23:07:31 Nice 23:07:32 it happens when you gain a skill 23:12:36 03greensnark * r4fa92824d1c6 10/crawl-ref/source/hints.cc: Fix inverted hints-mode checks (casmith789). 23:12:46 :) 23:12:48 cheers 23:12:59 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:33 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:02 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:36 greensnark: :( 23:36:46 greensnark: So it requires more hacking to work? 23:37:21 I'd suggest not bothering :) 23:37:37 noise propagation is not set up to handle different kinds of noises 23:37:42 Hm. 23:37:44 I mean some that can go through silence and some that cannot 23:37:53 Yes, no, that makes sense. 23:38:09 Okay, I'll just calculate some sort of radius alert then. 23:38:28 Noise propagation assumes that the only important thing about a noise is its volume, and it processes all noise sources simultaneously, so giving special treatment to some noises is awkward 23:38:44 Yeah. 23:38:51 Probably better to just hack it in as a radius alert instead. 23:39:03 Although given this is a loud noise you can just rely on it drowning out everything around, if you'd prefer 23:40:05 Is the noise propogation checks for silence a more recent thing? 23:40:12 Oh -- your changes? 23:40:43 03due * r0e4123dc9a10 10/crawl-ref/source/crawl.doxy: Add a crawl.doxy file. 23:40:43 Well, even the earlier code checked that a monster was silenced before stirring it up for the noise 23:41:02 The new code will not spread noise through silenced zones at all 23:41:02 Okay. 23:41:11 That's fine! 23:41:16 Just wondering if I misunderstood the old code as well. :) 23:41:25 Although I've considered letting it spread through silence and merely not waking up anything silenced 23:41:29 * greensnark shrug. 23:41:42 Not sure how silence is supposed to work :) 23:42:29 greensnark: i say make it stop noise in its tracks: a smoke-filled vault with walls of silence! :D 23:42:50 Eronarn: Yes, that's how it works right now 23:43:01 Well, dpeg indicates that his view of it is that silence stops people from talking, not hearing. 23:43:11 However the flavour is currently that it magically destroys sound. 23:43:15 due: I thought it was the other way around 23:43:16 So you can speak but nothing is said. 23:43:19 Yeah. 23:43:52 03due * recb0e472c6ed 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: A makefile target for doxygen. 23:44:17 can silenced things hear noise made outside the silence? 23:44:30 and, can things outside the silence hear noises made inside it? 23:44:52 TGWi: no on both counts, I believe 23:45:07 TGWi: silence stops any noise in both directions. 23:58:53 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev