00:01:33 I'm afraid sorear beat you to it 00:01:58 Or no, he was 2 minutes too late 00:02:11 I think he has a bot to go update bugs 00:07:19 has.. or is?? 00:07:33 DUM DUM DUM!! 00:08:42 vps hates me today - I had not seen due's comment at the time I commented, sorry 00:09:03 sorear: No, it's good that you updated the bug P:) 00:11:32 hmm, people in rgrm are starting to riot because of the web forum 00:11:41 watch out! first tunesia, then ffmpeg, now crawl? 00:13:10 sorear: I didn't actually comment on the bug, just here. 00:13:47 it's good that not only the nh community has fossilized members: "i remember when netscape 1.0 came out [...]" 00:22:39 03greensnark * r13e61eea17cf 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc mutation.cc travel.cc travel.h): [3258] Fix travel infinite-oscillating when Ashenzari/antennae detect+wipe mimic memory. 00:25:33 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:31 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:38:34 -!- TGWi has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:30:10 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:34 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:40:52 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:42:17 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:44:09 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:06 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:46 moin! 02:30:22 hii 02:35:23 :) 02:35:38 your termcast in proper use already, greensnark? 02:56:54 Napkin: Yeah, I caught up on my Shoals splats today :) 02:57:09 hehe 03:26:25 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 03:31:02 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:19 03j-p-e-g * r1962c022d6dd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): New tutorial triggers for tutorial3. 03:36:48 bhaak: my fault. please accept my apologies. 03:38:33 oh, is termcast back up now? 03:43:03 apparently 03:53:08 -!- evilmike has quit [] 03:58:13 RjY: you don't have to. Now I have something for dpeg to point to, when he's insulting part of my target audience again :-) 04:01:37 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:26 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:56 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:15 Hi 04:40:15 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:40:23 !messages 04:40:23 (1/2) greensnark said (5d 51m 33s ago): I added dpeg[3] to clarify certain points of your philosophy. What do you think? Too nuanced? 04:40:32 ??dpeg[3] 04:40:32 dpeg[3/3]: Glass is amazing. Glassglassglassglassoklobsglass. 04:40:34 dpeg LIVES! 04:40:45 Yay, do you know how long I had to wait for that?! 04:41:07 dpeg: Have you been unwell?! Vacation?! Taekwondo with the wrong giant lobster?! 04:41:09 I think you hit the finer points of my sensitivies very well, greensnark. 04:41:22 \o/ 04:41:23 greensnark: abroad for talk plus work :) 04:41:31 Aha 04:41:52 Did you discuss the new shooting monsters AI over herE? 04:41:54 !seen greensnark 04:41:55 I last saw greensnark at Fri Jan 21 10:41:31 2011 UTC (24s ago) saying Aha on ##crawl-dev. 04:42:01 !seen galehar 04:42:01 I last saw galehar at Thu Jan 20 16:14:37 2011 UTC (18h 27m 24s ago) quitting with message Quit: Page closed. 04:42:25 The change seems fine judging by players who've seen it in action 04:42:37 I will reply to the commit but perhaps you've talked about it already in depth. 04:42:40 mikee, Mu_, Genghis Khan, etc. have had no complaints 04:42:42 ok 04:42:58 Mu_ is not a player, he is one of us :) 04:43:21 * greensnark is a player too! 04:43:32 :) 04:43:34 I haven't played recently though, so I haven't seen the new AI in action 04:43:37 dpeg: I sent you an email re: something but it is not at all important. 04:43:38 !seen kilobyte 04:43:39 I last saw kilobyte at Thu Jan 20 22:48:41 2011 UTC (11h 54m 58s ago) saying do you mean 4 + depth * 2 or (4 + depth) * 2? on ##crawl-dev. 04:43:45 pointless has made lots of herd ai changes I want to check too 04:44:02 Actual yak herd dynamics! 04:44:03 due: and I will reply on the holy wraths stuff. Things are a bit busy here (my wife graduates on Monday, for example). 04:44:37 greensnark: yes, I saw! I always mentioned (here and otherplace) that I'd like that, and then pointless comes around the corner and codes something. <3 04:45:10 I've noticed that pointless thrives on things involving tentacles and hive minds. 04:46:37 yes, good taste 04:46:46 anime + communism = win 04:47:54 dpeg: There are some amusing responses on rgrmisc to the web forums :) 04:48:03 I just replied! 04:48:09 Probably too long, as usual. 04:48:15 bhaak seems to think this is evidence that NH players are not the only fossils in the precambrian. 04:49:06 It is well known that the first Usenet channel was set up by trilobytes, rec.aquatic.diet 04:49:11 <3 04:52:26 dpeg: I will be barely here most of next week, linux conference australia is on. 04:52:47 dpeg: So again, not at all urgent, feel free to ignore it until much later if you need to 04:53:05 due: ok! But I will reply. 05:01:12 -!- cw__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:25 moin 05:13:40 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:12 * greensnark hands Zaba some alfalfa. 05:14:50 busybusybusy 05:15:01 !coffee Keskitalo 05:15:01 * Henzell hands Keskitalo a pot of caffè macchiato, brewed by Crazy Yiuf. 05:16:32 thanks 05:17:07 mmmm macchiato 05:17:12 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:53 galehar and Keskitalo: hi 05:19:06 Keskitalo: Observe! We have a dpeg in our midst! 05:19:30 A Plog, to be specific 05:19:39 yes! allo dpeg! and grensark and zaba and galefar 05:19:49 Keskitalo: Baby asleep? :) 05:19:51 baby in lap hard to type 05:20:11 usability testing meeting in 40 mins 05:20:25 Ooh 05:20:39 trying to prepare, last minute input? :D 05:20:42 Keskitalo: we need a name! :) 05:20:55 Keskitalo: try to make them use Johanna's new tutorial. 05:21:12 yes! name is good to have 05:21:42 name of child :P 05:21:59 and yes, johanna has been on a roll, over 50% of the planned lessons done already if i'm correct 05:22:00 New tutorial is/will be awesome, and testing the old one will gain much less. 05:22:08 oh, name of child pfff 05:22:19 name of usability testing group! 05:22:26 when I cam back yesterday, I first pulled trunk and played the tutorial :) 05:22:31 dpeg: yup 05:22:45 dpeg: cool - i haven't had the chance yet 05:22:53 how was it? 05:22:58 Keskitalo: The Worrying Works of the Warwalruses. 05:23:14 Possibly even Wear Warwalrusses. 05:23:33 www! although i wouldn't want to steaaaaaaaaaaal warwalrus theit thing 05:23:49 Keskitalo: it's great 05:27:08 maybe we should also link to the usenet group on the website? 05:27:17 Napkin: there's no traffic! :) 05:27:40 again, we want testers to be gamers but with no rl experience? 05:27:56 Keskitalo: if it's about the tutorial, yes! 05:28:24 i think that gives more interesting results.. were not just after nethack players :P 05:28:35 yes 05:28:42 but players in general 05:28:57 my colleague on the left tested 0.7.1 tutorial - and he was mostly confused about the info overlay in the message window and the (too small) --more-- at the bottom sometimes (unaware he had to press enter/space) 05:29:08 one of the questions if there is appeal (and how much) to players of games without any exposition to fringe stuff like roguelikes 05:29:18 Napkin: that's much better now 05:29:41 Keskitalo: I'm compiling a fresh build in case we need it 05:29:54 felirx: excellent! 05:30:36 dpeg: that was interesting in the warwalrus report, modern rpg mmorpg ui tropes vs rl ui tropes 05:30:59 Keskitalo: got time to explain? 05:31:19 people expected MMORPG interface and got confused b/c they got something else? 05:31:26 not now, but will later 05:31:34 cool 05:31:36 kind of like that yeah 05:32:33 galehar: we can talk about the rangers here instead of c-r-d, if you want to 05:43:02 eateateat 05:47:15 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:47:15 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:47:58 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:58 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus forever. 05:49:58 dpeg: replied to your rgrm post :-) 05:50:27 yeah i've wondered why the website doesn't mention rgrm - as i recall the game's built in documentation does mention it 05:50:31 ok going! 05:50:49 +1 linking to rgrm, mantis/wiki howto has links too 05:51:21 dpeg: yes 05:53:51 rgrm is misc roguelikes, though. 05:55:50 that's true, and it's far too hard to get new newsgroups created 05:56:47 well, i mean proper ones 05:57:00 i think anyone can make an alt.* if they know how 05:57:01 done, RjY, Keskitalo 05:57:22 cool, thanks Napkin :) 05:57:34 "Stone Soup has an active community with a lot of places for discussions: In ##crawl on Freenode IRC, on the crawl-ref-discuss mailing-list at SourceForge, in the usenet group rec.games.roguelike.misc, in our local Tavern, and on other popular web forums such as Game Spite, Bay 12 Games and Something Awful." 05:57:51 RjY: yeah 05:57:58 RjY: getiting a rec.blah one is much harder 05:58:14 on the welcome page and on the about page 05:58:21 i liked to google's reader though 05:58:28 *linked 05:59:42 i need to sleeep 05:59:44 btw, phpbb3 <-> nntp gateway is way too alpha to make use of it 05:59:49 g'night due! :) 06:00:00 rec.games.roguelike.crawl has been brought up over the years but I don't like it. (a) not enough traffic anyway and (b) much better to also see the other roguelikes 06:00:07 Napkin: first up tomorrow i will be cleaning my car, tidyin the house, washing, etc, but i'll work on --wizad and my long list of crawl stuff to do :D 06:00:19 to me. r.g.r.m is about alive roguelikes, and r.g.r.nethack/angband is about dead ones :) 06:00:19 hehehe 06:00:24 due: night! 06:00:25 dpeg: did you have any opinion on sticks to snakes losing summoning? 06:00:30 sounds like you need a good dose of sleep now then, due ;) 06:00:40 dpeg: heehee 06:00:54 Napkin: more to the point, it'll be interesting t osee how much of that i get done before i log on and relax :0 06:00:59 due: ah, I saw that. Not really an opinion. 06:01:11 hehe 06:01:13 Keskitalo: I wouldn't worry about Veh's gift (re dragon spell). 06:01:19 V will lose the summons eventually. 06:01:20 dpeg: also, dig, shatter, and a few other spells: losing tmut. yes/yes/yes? ;) 06:01:35 what about --dig? 06:01:47 also, got to type up an exam now 06:01:51 ciao! 06:01:59 will just commit it and then revert whatever if there are arguments. 06:02:08 but the whole "oh it's earth so it's tmut too" is infuriating to me :D 06:02:10 * due actually gone. 06:13:14 o/ 06:44:35 Who was the volounteer with the Questionnaire for the starting screen? 06:44:38 OG17?? 06:57:55 the starting screen confused my colleague, because he couldn't focus the name input with the mouse ;) 06:58:27 haha 06:58:45 ultimately, we may have to split console and mouse input 07:09:55 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 07:12:00 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:38 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:04 !tell due it's kind of confusing when liquefaction recolours staircases yellow/brown 07:28:04 Mu_: OK, I'll let due know. 07:28:15 dpeg: around? 07:29:37 yes 07:30:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:47 galehar: I've written that c-r-d mail mostly because we have used centaurs as an example for why we don't want to improve monster AI :) 07:36:48 Centaurs are intelligent monsters who prefers ranged combat. Why wouldn't they use the new AI? Why would they rush to you instead of trying to find a good position to pelt you with arrows when you hide? 07:37:16 galehar: that's confusing realism aspects with gameplay. 07:37:46 Kobolds, orc etc. are also all intelligent. They could behave much more "intelligent", but it wouldn't necessarily make for a better game. 07:37:49 but current gameplay isn't exciting. Hide in a corner and wait for the sucker to come after you. 07:38:16 Now, you really have to use the terrain to ambush them 07:38:30 and/or scrolls of fog 07:38:30 This does not mean that your AI change is bad, but just that higher intelligence or more realistic behaviour is not necessarily better gameplay. 07:38:42 galehar: yes, I know 07:38:52 But did you read what I wrote about perfect centaur AI? 07:39:03 yes 07:39:18 but it's not perfect at all. It just not completely dumb. 07:39:47 I believe that your change makes matters more interesting and will not lead to more D:3-4 centaur deaths. So it's good. I just wanted to issue a warning that there's a danger with higher AI. 07:39:55 galehar: my point is that sometimes we want dumb. 07:40:12 ok, I understand that and I agree 07:40:35 It's not a simulation, it is a game where a megalomaniac, homicidal hero kills thousands of monsters. :) 07:40:36 but the whole "duck behind a corner and wait for it to come" strategy was getting a bit old. 07:40:44 galehar: yes, I fully agree 07:41:07 I am not planning to add kiting to monsters if that's what you fear ;) 07:41:29 sure you wouldn't -- I just wanted to make sure nobody else wants to :) 07:41:47 As I said, standout monsters can get all the AI w can afford. 07:42:15 Generic ones should be more reliable. If you want, you can file the new slime creatures also under "improved AI". It's different, and reliable. 07:43:05 what? But slime don't have ranged attacks... 07:43:23 no no 07:43:43 they're no longer boring monsters where you'll dig in a corridor and kill them one by one 07:43:49 ok 07:43:52 understood 07:44:17 in this sense, they're now "better" (smarter if you will) than before -- even though this was not motivated by monster AI but by thematic rule change (merge/split of slime) 07:45:13 anyway, about centaurs, the change might lead to increased leathality while players adapt, but it should be fine after. They are a bit easier to escape from. 07:45:35 galehar: just to be sure: I don't want you to step back on your change (it does need polish, as you pointed out, but that's normal); I just wanted to provide a general scope on monster AI 07:45:49 fine, we agree then :) 07:45:54 galehar: yes, I know, that's what my footnote was about 07:46:06 galehar: good stuff! :) 07:46:47 if I'm wrong and they prove to be too deadly, then I'd rather find another way to balance it than just remove the new AI (reduce damage and/or accuracy, boost scroll of fogs,...) 07:47:48 galehar: what is a centaur going to do if you hide behind a corner? 07:49:08 it sidesteps to attempt to get LOS without stepping closer 07:49:08 it will try to get a line of fire to your new position 07:49:34 if it is far away, it might close in a bit 07:49:49 ok 07:50:21 to be precise it will search its LOS for a cell it can reach, and from where it can attack you. It will choose the closest one so it can regain LOS as fast as possible. 07:50:40 XcX@ 07:50:40 .... 07:50:40 XXXX 07:50:45 it will for instance move down here 07:50:51 instead of down right 07:51:18 probably :P 07:51:20 if several are eligible, it will choose one with the best possible range which I have arbitrarily set to 4 (not too easy to ambush and not too easy to escape) 07:52:00 in your example, it will move down left. 07:52:06 yeah I realized 07:55:14 galehar: will it approach the player in a situation like this: ..c...@.. ? 07:55:25 or stand there and just shoot? 07:56:05 I didn't change that 07:56:15 good 07:57:10 I only change the AI for when you walk out of the LOS or read fog 08:14:35 -!- Kauko- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:16 children time, later 08:40:28 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:31 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:42 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:02 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:51 omg, yaktaur herd with captain in d10 :-O 09:39:26 why are these ood spawns kicking in so early for me lately? 09:39:31 (0.7.1) 10:07:40 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:20 @whereis Napkin 10:10:21 Napkin the Conjurer (L12 DECj), a worshipper of Vehumet, is currently on Lair:3 after 22758 turns. 10:10:53 ran back to a shop in d10 10:11:20 for a quarterstaff and almost got taken apart ;) 10:11:24 You can totally take a yaktaur captain :) 10:11:36 a single one, sure 10:12:11 but it was a close call with the shop being in a one way area ;) 10:12:57 anyways, recently I got a heard of slime creatures and a storm dragon in d10 too.. hence omg ;D 10:13:23 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:21 it's kind of goofy that entire bands of stuff come down the stairs together 10:18:51 I just had an orc pack spawn on me while I was victory dancing 10:29:36 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:50 -!- DarkGod has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:56 galehar: have you studied Smart Kobold yet? 10:33:20 what? 10:33:33 I think that's what it was called 10:33:42 lorimer's 7DRL entrant 10:33:55 no 10:34:15 the new AI code looks like the one from smart kobold? 10:34:20 no 10:34:43 so, what's interesting about it? 10:37:03 sorear: Wasn't Smart Kobold a Jeff Lait thing? 10:37:36 omg, i posted to rgrm :-O 10:37:46 greensnark: don't remember anymore; I do know lorimer used to talk about it before it existed 10:37:50 first usenet post since like... 15 years?! :D 10:37:50 Napkin: You're getting ooold :P 10:37:54 from the website: Smart Kobold is a Seven Day Roguelike written by Jeff Lait. 10:38:07 galehar: it's a cute demo of how you have to trade off monster power against AI 10:38:11 greensnark: ;) 10:38:28 sorear: ok 10:45:22 Napkin: Post not word-wrapped correctly :P 10:45:31 Napkin: OMG, Google? :P 10:46:37 Napkin: only losers post with GG, hihi 10:47:10 dpeg has been taken over by a SA overmind 10:47:14 btw, does the automatic login work in for anyone? 10:47:42 greensnark: I don't think it's fair to assume that SA folk know about usenet. 10:48:05 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:54:00 hehe, I knew you'd hack my head :D 10:54:39 I'm not aware of any other nntp server though - and haven't touched a reader software in years :) 10:54:54 Napkin: Funktionier das automatische login fÃ¼rs Forum bei dir? 10:55:07 ja 10:55:21 ok 10:55:22 unter welcher url Ã¶ffnest du das forum? 10:55:48 und.. du meinst.. einloggen, browser schliessen, spÃ¤ter wieder Ã¶ffnen mit "automatisch", richtig? 10:56:41 yes 10:56:50 think I may have disabled too many cookies 10:57:28 unter welcher url benutzt du das forum? https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/ ? 10:57:36 js 10:58:15 Hey, r.g.r.n found a new topic: version 2.3! 10:58:17 dann sollte es funktionieren 10:58:26 Now they have many more topics to discover :) 10:58:39 so, what nntp server should I use? 10:58:47 off home o/ 10:59:14 Napkin: There are a couple of popular free servers, can't recall them offhand 10:59:28 I pay 10EUR per year for news.individual.net 11:01:22 dpeg: it's surprising how non-nethack-like 2.3e is. It looks just like a generic hack variant 11:02:37 bhaak: Johanna once compiled Crawl 1.1. And told me how much it looked like current Crawl, but also how empty it was. 11:04:35 dpeg: I haven't looked at the code of 2.3 specifically, but there are a lot of things already in hack 1.0 that are still in current nethack. It's amazing how complex even this old version already was 11:08:19 bhaak: would you think that 2.3 --> 4.3 was overall an improvement, or a distraction? 11:08:34 (I realise the same question will be asked about DCSS, or already is) 11:08:47 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:12:28 dpeg: I haven't played it, but from what I read on the wiki, I'd say it has generally improved. Or at least it has evolved away from a simple rogue-clone to something that stands on its own feet 11:14:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:16 dpeg: but the biggest steps in that direction happened in 3.0 and 3.1. Lots of objects, monsters and features were added in 3.0 and 3.1 added the dungeon branches 11:14:45 "ASSERT(in_bounds(mons->target) || mons->target.origin(() in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2365 failed." (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3260) by Twilight 11:14:48 bhaak: You mean something that stands on its own cloven hooves. 11:15:13 bhaak: but is this a kind of "more" which is really "better"? 11:15:16 I am not so sure. 11:15:38 Well, they added Sokoban and Elbereth, which are unreservedly beneficial 11:15:49 :) 11:15:56 greensnark: on its own makeplural(body_part(FOOT)) 11:15:57 Sokoban was a late mistake. 11:16:06 yes, Sokoban was 3.4 or 3.3 11:16:14 What about Elbereth? 11:16:14 and Elbereth was already in hack IIRC 11:16:20 Oh really? 11:16:31 Who added Elbereth, exactly? 11:16:36 I wish to know their name 11:16:37 We want names! 11:16:45 When did resistances from corpses go in? 11:17:33 yepp, Elbereth was in hack 1.0. That means either Jay Fenlason or Andries Brouwer as we don't have a version of Jays original Hack 11:17:47 Sokoban is at least sort of interesting. Although I would agree that it's unnecessary. Elbereth is just broken. 11:22:19 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:22 yo devs 11:22:26 I have a suggestion, 11:22:32 before I pollute the wiki, can I run it by you? 11:22:42 dpeg: resistances from corpses were already in hack 1.0. As I said, some already quite complex things were there from the beginning 11:23:03 hoody: go ahead 11:23:23 Background: Mystic ; Attr: High Invo, Decent INT, Equal Str + Dex 11:23:26 BUT 11:23:29 No god or book 11:23:34 rax: agree with both. Sokoban is a very cute idea, but you just cannot deliver static maps. 11:23:48 basically "made to worship or cast wanderer" 11:24:03 Monks have no invo, and priests are stuck with god choices 11:24:12 this guy is hella hard to keep alive til temple or finds a book 11:24:19 bu then things improve quickly and he catches up 11:24:21 hoody: backgrounds are there to get you to D:2 or D:3 -- the mystic doesn't have tools to get there. 11:24:48 Give him throwing 2 blades 1 fighting 1 and darts 11:25:02 and a few medkits 11:25:10 it's challegnign to start 11:25:30 but has like 3 invoc and 2 spellcasting all ready to go 11:25:39 makes him nic for those chance books/altars at low levels 11:25:45 I think there's a strong niche 11:26:24 trolls and ogre and spriggan mystics would do fine at lower 11:26:43 deep dwarves and sludge elves and merfolk would reap benefits later 11:26:45 I like the balance 11:27:08 if you thik it's worth it, I'll write it up for the wiki 11:27:14 if you think it'll get fielded, I wont bother 11:27:15 thanks! 11:27:51 I once had this idea of giving Monks starting Spc but no book. So that they could use any books they find right away. 11:29:56 dpeg: That sounds kind of cool, Wandererish. 11:31:51 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:36 Keskitalo: hi! How was the meeting? 11:34:09 Keskitalo: if you look the Monk idea enough, you could add it to some page... 11:35:51 nah, they're already set up to pick up spells really. :) 11:36:17 dpeg: Your reply to galehar's commit on crd would easily make a good blog post 11:36:56 Meeting was good, I'll write to crd in a minute 11:37:39 I have really limited time, but even it doesn't look like it :) 11:37:48 If you want to turn the mail into a blog post, go ahead. 11:37:51 dpeg: I can relate :) 11:38:02 dpeg: Ok, I might try some ghost writing! :) 11:38:11 Kauko- is from the usability testing team correct? 11:39:22 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:23 sorry 11:39:29 my Uni internet collapsed on me 11:39:37 did anyone respond to whether I should bother adding mystic or no? 11:39:46 and did you get my bug report about apitudes.txt? 11:41:56 sorry, got to prepare food for family 11:42:00 yeah 11:42:00 hoody: I kind of agree with dpeg about survival 11:42:00 hoody: not so sure... 11:42:08 listen 11:42:27 if you can get a DEWn to the temple 11:42:31 you can get a mystic there 11:42:35 i dont think its a unique enough background, its just like a monk or a priest 11:42:48 but its not 11:42:54 monks have no spellcasting or invo 11:43:04 and priests are stuck with god choice 11:43:07 those are incredibly easy to pick though 11:43:28 but starting with 4 invo is a real boon if you find an early invo god temple 11:43:36 and starting with spc but no book is unique, no? 11:44:22 way I see it, is if you can makea case for magic school-specific backgrounds (conjurers, transmuters) 11:44:24 !tell due fwiw I've always liked the Earth/Transmut connection.. kind of like with Fire/Conj. I've never played an EE properly though. My NaTm win kind of branched out to Geomancy, I liked that (LRD was disappointing though). That wasn't necessary though, and you seem to have a vision about Transmuters! :) 11:44:24 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let due know. 11:44:29 yay, wasn't too long 11:44:48 you can make the case for no-background specific caster/god ready 11:45:05 It makes the game more dependent on RNG in terms of path 11:45:05 hoody: I can see the appeal though, it just doesn't make me go "cool!" right now 11:45:10 which I think is nice 11:45:15 I mean 11:45:21 often you find an early altar 11:45:27 sometimes it is relevant and massively cool 11:45:28 hoody: I'd say it's worth wikifying though, perhaps people will see if they'd like it 11:45:31 often it is irrelevant 11:45:39 this way, you always have the option of going "sure" 11:45:49 OK 11:46:00 I'll write it up properly and balance the stats and apts and see what people say 11:46:19 RNG-reliant PocketKnife character 11:46:21 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:22 totally unique 11:47:03 hoody: problem with Mystic is it's a pure gamble 11:47:10 and we already have a gamble class (Wn) 11:47:10 that' not a problem 11:47:17 this is a weighted gamble 11:47:21 that fills several gaps 11:47:31 i.e. classes with invo but no god 11:47:33 as it is 11:47:40 you want invo, you gotta be a healer or a priest? 11:47:58 which restricts you to 2-4 gods (depending if you're evil) 11:48:13 2-4? 11:48:17 yeah 11:48:27 yred ely zin beogh 11:48:33 I'd imagine it's more like 1-more than that 11:48:39 1-4 then 11:48:48 DS can only go yred 11:48:51 zin/ely worshipers can deconvert safely 11:48:53 orc can go all 4 11:48:53 yes I know 11:48:59 but not go ecil god 11:49:08 yu cant ditch zin then go mak 11:49:14 yes but still 11:49:17 more than 4 choices 11:49:22 well why have the priest class for those gods 11:49:24 but not other gods? 11:49:30 also you can start with invo and makhleb 11:49:33 (chaos knight) 11:49:37