00:01:57 -!- Fangorn_ has quit [Quit: Fangorn_] 00:25:31 Crash on going upstairs from Crypt 1 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3194) by Twilight 01:09:35 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:20:50 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:10 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:45 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:58 moin 03:07:14 moin! 03:10:57 03zaba * ra44fa09af5d0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (mini_features.des serial_curves.des): Split serial_curves vaults into serial_curves.des. 03:11:01 03zaba * re97add36210f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (mini_features.des serial_corexii_hall.des): Split serial_corexii_hall vaults into serial_corexii_hall.des 03:11:02 03zaba * r2f89339b6741 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.cc clua.cc mon-stuff.cc traps.cc): Use die() instead of ASSERT("..."). 03:11:04 03zaba * red104f85212a 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't handle the 'F' glyph in dungeon.cc. 03:11:47 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 03:17:29 -!- ahpla has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:38 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:17 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:38 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:51 hi galehar 03:48:58 hi 04:13:52 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:53 enne: deep water looks weird now http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/Clipboard01.png 04:18:30 what happened to it? 04:18:41 oh wow. 04:19:05 a) where is the shoreline packing? 04:19:43 isn't shoreline supposed to be handled only in the Shoals for now? 04:20:01 no 04:20:06 Shoals = waves packin 04:20:07 *packing 04:20:13 Shore line is packed everywhere else. 04:20:36 The wall packing is present and correct so I do wonedr what happened to the shore. 04:21:52 Sending our project description to the usability testing course.. 04:23:17 Keskitalo: <3 04:23:34 Yay! 04:23:39 Keskitalo: do you have any special requests with respect to releases? 04:25:05 because, that would be an actual reason to release at a given time... as opposed to "perhaps March, perhaps June" 04:25:40 and there's a difference between the usual happy coding of new major features and the push to stabilize 04:28:30 due: deep water tiles shouldn't look split like that, should they? 04:28:37 ortoslon: no 04:30:14 kilobyte: I can only think of the new monster and command tab stuff that would probably be cool to test; also 04:30:28 Johanna is redoing the tutorial 04:30:55 but hasn't really started yet. I'm not sure when the testing will actually start yet - I'm betting around March, that was how it was last year 04:31:48 weird deep water tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3195) by ortoslon 04:31:59 We could also just test 0.7, but since the tiles interface has improved since then it would be cool to test dev builds 04:32:30 I should probably take a proper look at the new interface things :P 04:33:04 anyway, the testing would focus on tutorial + early game 04:33:38 Keskitalo: test the new assert dialogs :P 04:36:24 hehe 04:36:53 I think we should switch to hard time based releases 04:36:53 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:36:54 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:03 New release every six months 04:37:17 If something doesn't make the release, just push it to the next 04:37:28 (six, eight, whatever, the number doesn't matter) 04:37:51 Without a release window there's no incentive to stabilise features 04:37:56 !learn add bad_ideas in wizard mode, assert dialogs should ask "Crash? [Y/N]" 04:37:57 bad ideas[2751/2751]: in wizard mode, assert dialogs should ask "Crash? [Y/N]" 04:39:51 !messages 04:39:52 (1/1) due said (12h 9m 4s ago): I take glee and pleasure in your pain. 04:40:16 !tell due Curse your black heart! Did I mention that I also got chased by a regular stair mimic? It was embarrassing. 04:40:16 greensnark: OK, I'll let due know. 04:40:51 greensnark: Sounds sensible to me 04:41:42 :D 04:41:43 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:41:45 !messages 04:41:46 (1/1) greensnark said (1m 29s ago): Curse your black heart! Did I mention that I also got chased by a regular stair mimic? It was embarrassing. 04:42:02 due: I was trying to leave the level because things were a little too exciting :P 04:42:11 And then things got more exciting because the stair I chose was a LIAR 04:42:23 ortoslon: Actually someone came in the other day and said we should make asserts "optional". ie, allow people to continue playing after an assert is triggered. 04:42:51 Unfortunately we were unable to explain to them why this was impossible, and they continued to explain how VC++ let you "conntinue" from an exception so why couldn't we alo do this? 04:43:22 If the game just discovers that up is down, you really don't want to continue from there 04:43:43 Some assert conditions are sublethal, but a fair number of them indicate the game being truly hosed 04:44:18 And the disadvantage of making them bypassable is that people will bypass them and not bother reporting the bug :P 04:45:14 reporting bugs is kinda tedious 04:45:25 so many required fields 04:46:07 does mantis provide a way to fill some of them automatically via, say, long parametrised URLs? 04:46:37 VC++... since continuing after a segfault (like in about all uses, few projects use fatal asserts throughout) is such a brilliant idea 04:48:04 because then you could just add an internet shortcut "Report a bug.url" that fills the version number etc. 04:48:16 bundle it with the build 04:48:31 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:41 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:41 ok, mail sent 04:51:56 ortoslon: That's not a bad idea 04:52:24 re 04:52:26 doy wanted an in-game bug reporter 04:52:51 assert dialogs could have a button that pastes the text into the bug description 04:53:03 in addition to filling all details 04:56:45 No idea how you'd actually do all that automagically though :P 04:57:14 In-game bug reporting might be easier 04:57:37 well, it is unfortunatley limited by being M$'s messagebox thingy. 04:57:45 but it would be nice if there was a "Copy text to clipboard" option 04:58:08 due: You can Ctrl-C messageboxes. 04:58:26 Zao: Do you know how often I use windows? ;) 04:58:39 It's not a commonly known bit of information, heh. 04:58:50 Also, when you said "you can ^C messageboxes" I assumed you meant you could kill them via ^C :) 04:59:39 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/318786/ 05:03:31 Can you fill in a mantis form via GET? 05:03:40 Or, rather, query-string. 05:03:46 Because GET is something else entirely, kinda. 05:05:22 hmm. 05:06:07 it would be too abusable 05:06:25 Why? 05:06:31 I'm not saying *submit* it. 05:06:44 ah 05:06:45 Just bring up the form submission window and then fill in the relevant information from the query-string. 05:06:52 You still have to be logged in and confirm the details before submitting it. 05:07:44 If you can do that you can just open the user's browser with that URL on Windows and Mac 05:07:51 Which would be really handy 05:07:54 Yes. 05:08:26 that's what i suggested 05:08:40 GMTA etc 05:08:54 It'll probably need Mantis hacking though 05:08:59 Should ask Napking 05:09:00 how many of the 'optional features' controlled by #defines in AppHdr.h really need to be controlled by #defines? 05:09:54 Zaba: About 0 of them 05:10:43 I'm referring mainly to the 'New defines for a bunch of optional features' section, but there might be more 05:11:06 I recently axed several worst offenders, but really, they all should go. 05:11:07 Anything "optional" but that is default and ha been default should bcease to be option. 05:12:13 like, an option to use colour 05:12:26 or cursor keys 05:12:30 i woulld hazard that colour is essential 05:12:37 Colour, egads! Whatever will these kids think of next 05:12:38 are there gameplay things? 05:12:44 I seem to remember there were 05:13:20 I believe gameplay things are in defines.h 05:14:21 pardon? 05:14:25 Hmmm https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php?description=abcd&summary=a%20summary works 05:14:36 the "idle clamp" is currently at 5 minutes... what about making that 30 seconds or less? It just inflates the time if you play while working or doing other things. 05:14:43 about what? 05:15:05 if you wait longer between keypresses, you were doing something other 05:15:06 Looks like this URL thing will work 05:15:07 bah, defines.h has a bunch of zotdef-specific things, but nothing states that they're so zotdef-specific 05:15:52 Napkin: We were wondering if the game could open a browser with the Mantis bug report page prepopulated 05:16:03 I'm not sure how login is handled for that url, let me check 05:16:42 Ok, the login redirect destroyed the URL querystring 05:17:13 03j-p-e-g * r631aad247019 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Fix #3195: Don't set swamp_tree_water for water without trees. 05:18:06 Ah. 05:18:13 aha. deep water was standing in shallow water :) 05:18:37 could someone update windows builds? 05:18:39 kilobyte: I like the current 5 minute clamp. I think 30s is a little too low 05:18:57 Define "idle clamp"? 05:19:07 * due sees greensnark idling, clamps. 05:19:27 due: the time when the clock for play time stops after you last pressed a key 05:19:34 Ohhh. 05:19:55 We use that to check for fastest realtime win, etc. so I don't want to drop the clamp too much 05:20:17 Although I don't think a clamp of 30s will affect fastest realtime wins 05:20:45 idling doesn't help you in any way 05:22:09 I know 05:22:18 But high game time doesn't hurt you in any way :P 05:24:32 Oh hey, cool, firefox crashed. 05:25:13 hmm, pity 05:25:16 would be cool 05:25:32 Napkin: please update 05:25:49 kilobyte: However, if you just went ahead and made the change without asking, I probably wouldn't bother to complain about it :P 05:25:58 "It's easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission." 05:26:22 update what? 05:26:27 windows builds 05:26:58 ok 05:29:08 Player data is invalid. Minor version mismatch: 33 (want <= 31). The save is from a newer version. 05:29:14 i get that when i try and load my current game 05:29:15 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:19 then it exits back to the main menu 05:30:05 Huh 05:30:09 where, MarvinPA? 05:30:10 huh 05:30:19 maybe something to do with the bug i had that kilobyte fixed? 05:30:56 Napkin: that message appears right after the "Your save cannot be tranferred though because of incompatibility." message 05:31:02 local game? cdo? 05:31:06 cdo, sorry 05:31:06 aha 05:32:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:17 why is it trying to transfer it to an older version? a little odd. 05:33:06 could you give me the version hash, please? 05:33:06 @dump 05:33:06 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/MarvinPA/MarvinPA.txt 05:33:06 0.8.0-a0-4388-g315efd1 05:33:15 Napkin: i had a crash bug yesterday, then kilobyte took a look at it and i think sent you a message asking you to do something with my save file? 05:34:51 highest minor with major 31 is 31.31 in 315efd1 05:35:12 kilobyte must have converted it to 31.33 manually - which is not installed on CDO 05:38:41 yeah, i think he did that so i could still load it after the major version increase 05:39:12 for that he would have needed to update the major version too 05:39:28 hrm dammit, indeed loaded the save in the current version 05:39:35 no, not major 05:39:50 converting over major bumps is not trivial 05:40:08 Save file version for ../crawl-svn-315efd1/saves/MarvinPA-2002.cs is 31.33 05:40:19 03kilobyte * re408bd4286a2 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Give dprf()s with the level's name when entering a level. 05:40:21 which is major 31 not 32 05:40:26 03kilobyte * rbdb28e3d5a35 10/crawl-ref/source/AppHdr.h: Reduce the clock threshold when the player is idle. 05:40:37 03kilobyte * r0ddf2aea897b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (AppHdr.h hiscores.cc message.cc mon-act.cc ouch.cc): Remove defines for "a bunch of optional features". 05:40:50 03kilobyte * rcc071d90f3d2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (AppHdr.h colour.cc libunix.cc): Always enable "optional" colour. 05:44:35 crap, got the save at home. It's not hard to recover it again (load in gdb, purge the cell_glyph, turn env.mons[2].type to MONS_ORC), but only if we have the original 05:58:03 does anyone currently see a danger in upgrading all saved to the latest minor? 31.16 is lowest and 31.31 would be the target minor 05:58:09 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4499-gcc071d9 05:58:42 none, I think 06:14:44 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:17 Napkin: we ensured coompatability hopefully 06:19:37 gooodnight folk 06:20:10 bye! 06:28:27 23 versions removed \o/ 06:33:46 03kilobyte 07unicode * re7c3fa432cec 10/crawl-ref/ (1163 files in 94 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into unicode 06:44:26 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:15 -!- Blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:21:25 -!- Blackflare has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:47 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:49 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:57 addressinfg victory dancing (realistic short-term goal): https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=276 08:05:27 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:41 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:20 -!- kronusdark has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:38 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:27 -!- kronusdark has quit [Quit: kronusdark] 08:48:38 has any thought ever been given to change how gain stat potions work, so cure mutations wont wipe them out? Or is it considered balanced 08:59:28 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 09:00:23 Rar. 09:01:03 Blackflare, afaik, no one has raised any balance issues with them. 09:01:32 Theyre pretty rare, and I always hate having to clear them off when I get a bad mutation 09:02:18 just a thought, I guess 09:05:14 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:19:56 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:19 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:05 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 09:58:42 -!- TGWiglaf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:09 re: potion of gain stat balance, it'd be better to change how potions of cure mut work 09:59:35 so that it's not disadvantageous to have mildly beneficial mutations 09:59:50 flat chance per mutation to be cured, for example 10:00:04 or roll separate numbers to cure for positive and negative mutations 10:04:01 -!- TGWiglaf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:36 that would be good 10:35:15 what about this? http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/rss/crawl_tiles.php 10:52:19 ok, rss/rdf updated... to show the available feeds ;) http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/rss/ 10:54:05 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:25 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:08 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:05 !seen kilobyte 11:06:06 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:06:06 I last saw kilobyte at Tue Jan 11 13:28:47 2011 UTC (3h 37m 18s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 240 seconds. 11:06:12 !messages 11:06:12 (1/3) elliptic said (16h 49m 40s ago): I don't have that much experience with Xom, but a buff doesn't seem necessary to me. He can already be very nice if you get lucky, and he is supposed to be a gamble rather than an objectively good option. 11:06:21 !messages 11:06:22 (1/2) elliptic said (16h 48m 44s ago): My current Xom char was gifted two wands of healing and a lot of other stuff of varying use, and I got extremely good mutations from him. 11:06:27 !messages 11:06:27 (1/1) elliptic said (16h 47m 23s ago): I do think that Xom could be made more interesting; as things are, the timing of his actions doesn't seem that great. It would probably be good to make him pay even more attention to tension. 11:06:39 yes, the bit with the ticks 11:06:48 !tell elliptic Thanks for Xom report! 11:06:49 dpeg: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 11:07:15 !seen galehar 11:07:16 I last saw galehar at Tue Jan 11 15:05:13 2011 UTC (2h 2m 2s ago) quitting with message Quit: Page closed. 11:09:50 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:53 Napkin: That lists just the topmost commit per build, right? I think it'll be misunderstood by someone, somewhere.. but otherwise, looks great! 11:34:08 I mean showing just one commit isn't super informative 11:34:15 it's kind of cool though 11:35:36 Napkin: Do you think adding "The most recent commit:" somewhere would be good? 11:37:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:30 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:11 Hi 11:45:18 hi dpeg! I just heard back from the usability testing course coordinator and also just sent another mail on cdr. 11:45:21 crd i mean 11:45:45 cool 11:45:58 didn't reply yesterday because jpeg already did 11:47:22 ok, good ( i take the plan sounded good :) ) 11:47:50 love the command tab 11:48:12 hey dpeg what do you think of what I said earlier? [09:48] has any thought ever been given to change how gain stat potions work, so cure mutations wont wipe them out? Or is it considered balanced [10:01] Theyre pretty rare, and I always hate having to clear them off when I get a bad mutation 11:48:19 I think it should be detached by default, it's much more important than the monster tab 11:50:17 oh man, it's so nice to have that 11:50:31 so much closer to 100% mouse playability 11:50:58 Blackflare: yes, people thought about gain stat potions work. 11:51:10 It is intentional that the gain is not permanent. 11:51:18 ah, alright 11:53:00 03Keskitalo * rf841a2fb16f1 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/introduction.txt: Spacing fixes. 11:53:06 03Keskitalo * rbbe03937d7f8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/gnoll_camp.des: A bit less padding around the largest gnoll camp maps. (Zaba) 11:53:08 03Keskitalo * r1838a6dacd21 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/gnoll_camp.des: Remember to recolour gnoll sergeants and shamans. (elliptic, monky) 11:53:21 03Keskitalo * rd62ea6d35797 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/gnoll_camp.des: Other gnoll camp tweaks. 11:53:24 03Keskitalo * rf7fbe8cc1259 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Coolio's sergeant and shaman tiles for gnoll camp. Also tweak sergeants. 11:53:35 03gafrie * rad235bc109f4 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Allows diagonal burrowing 12:03:39 Next on my todo: warwalrus report translation; rangerc's summons; fixes from eronarn's zin patch 12:03:48 crawl-todo i mean 12:11:26 03zaba * r6c62788d2f40 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/gnoll_camp.des: Fix whitespace and symmetry in gnoll_camp.des. 12:11:37 03zaba * rfe4243e2c292 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Fix whitespace errors in dat/clua and vaults.des. 12:11:40 Keskitalo, I hope that little tweak is okay with you :P 12:13:23 yeah, good catch :) 12:13:46 Keskitalo: sounds good 12:15:49 Keskitalo, the vaults look a lot better now, IMO 12:18:55 Zaba: Excellent, thanks! :) Thanks for the feedback earlier too! 12:19:19 nasty vault bug: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3166 12:19:23 03j-p-e-g * rcc4c2b0e84fc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (clua/tutorial.lua des/tutorial/tutorial.des): Move the common tutorial utility methods into new file tutorial.lua. 12:19:26 Keskitalo, I don't like the oval shape in gnoll_camp_medium_01, it looks somewhat out of place 12:19:28 03j-p-e-g * r3743e2d50c66 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: Don't attempt to set autoexclusions in unmappable areas. 12:19:29 03j-p-e-g * r2b5bbcb05504 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cloud.cc cloud.h view.cc): Implement #1962: Don't generate cloud autoexclusions when immune. 12:19:32 03j-p-e-g * r56266ee012d5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (exclude.cc exclude.h travel.cc): Implement #1960: Allow traveling across radius 1 excluded stairs. 12:19:33 03j-p-e-g * r2c63f35a7436 10/crawl-ref/source/ (exclude.cc exclude.h stairs.cc): Implement #2374: Don't prompt for cloud-excluded staircases. 12:19:45 03j-p-e-g * r58e99be7d1cc 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: Don't display cloud exclusions on the Ctrl-O screen. 12:19:47 could be a mistake in the vault itself, but didn't spot it 12:19:48 03j-p-e-g * rf07d3b57527a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Temporary resistances don't prevent cloud autoexclusions. 12:21:14 Keskitalo, I think I know how that vault could be tweaked to my liking, too.. :p 12:21:26 Zaba: Tried to go for an army camp feel, but square is probably more correct for that now that I think about it :) rest of them are square too 12:21:36 Zaba: Please go ahead, that would be cool :) 12:22:08 I'll try 12:24:27 I made an assumption that Sure Blade and Tukima's Dance aren't Hexes by mistake and closed elliptic's bug report as a design issue. 12:24:47 (kilobyte ^) 12:25:00 :/ 12:25:07 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:48 even if it isn't a mistake, it *feels* like one 12:26:10 kilobyte described charms as "enhancing auras" 12:26:39 still not tracker-appropriate imho 12:26:41 similar to how I would feel if I saw that haste had changed to a necromancy spell or something 12:26:59 so if that happens I shouldn't report that as an obvious bug either? 12:27:10 I have few problems with this part of the split, since I am not a native speaker. 12:27:20 elliptic: no, of course not 12:27:39 oh? where do you hail from dpeg 12:27:50 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:08 elliptic: no offense meant 12:28:08 It can happen that the answer is "works as intended" -- there may still be later changes. If it is as obvious as you say, we will hear about the topic a lot more... 12:28:14 Blackflare: Germany 12:28:27 ah, nice. I almost got to visit germany 12:31:02 dpeg: to me too, it seems very strange that a hex is what sure blade / tukima's dance are doing 12:31:23 for what it's worth, I prefer at least Eronarn's split over charms/hexes because it allows room for fiddling spells into good places 12:31:50 keskitalo,dpeg: yeah, I understand that "works as intended" is a reasonable response to some BRs :) I was just hoping to get more of a clear response or explanation than "we assume that kilobyte intended this" 12:31:57 fwiw they feel more like charms to me too 12:32:20 yeah agreed, as a native speaker, sure blade wouldnt make sense as a hex 12:32:22 elliptic: okay, that's reasonable 12:33:12 Keskitalo, http://sprunge.us/PAhB 12:33:47 Keskitalo, argh 12:33:49 elliptic: frankly, the title of the BR and the text reads like a design opinion though :) 12:33:58 Keskitalo, that map's got errors, but you get the idea, right? 12:34:55 elliptic: re-opened, thanks 12:35:04 elliptic: best to discuss this when kilobyte is around. (angband.pl had trouble today) 12:35:15 dpeg: I reopened and assigned to Adam 12:35:49 Zaba: Looks much nicer! 12:35:51 keskitalo: thanks 12:36:47 Keskitalo, it breaks the pattern a little (the stone walls in the circle are exposed to the inside of the vault), but I think it looks much nicer this way. 12:36:52 Keskitalo, should I polish it up and commit it? 12:37:01 re 12:37:12 Zaba: Yes please! 12:37:27 okay.. 12:37:31 of course it's possible.. but consider the repeating, with like.. at the moment 2 builds a day 12:37:43 elliptic: I've tried to be vigilant about the FR->wiki move, hence the hasty closing 12:37:56 Napkin: aye 12:38:13 Napkin: what's there is good in any case! 12:38:20 keskitalo: yeah, I understand 12:38:23 well, maybe.. since you usually look at those entries separately.. hmmm 12:49:03 03zaba * r1ca8e7099449 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/gnoll_camp.des: Squeeze gnoll_camp_medium_01 a little, consequently adjust the positions of monsters & loot. 12:51:15 Keskitalo, there 12:51:34 thanks! 12:52:42 I guess the circular shape would look pretty in tiles (if only tiles themselves were pretty :P) 12:53:43 they are 12:53:46 you grinch 12:54:05 03j-p-e-g * r81efa9f6077a 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: Adapt exclusion radius to the Nightstalker mutation. 12:54:11 not from the screenshots that I saw, not really ;P 12:54:22 screenshots are my sole source of information about the visual aspects of tiles 12:54:33 it grows on you 12:54:43 I like tiles :) 12:54:47 because damned if I install all the deps just to look at it in real-time 12:54:54 hehe 12:54:54 I think part of its problem is how so many tiles are made by different people in different styles 12:55:10 Blackflare: yeah, that's an issue 12:55:29 if someone went through it and did a whole set by themselves with a cohesive vision it would probably improve a lot 12:55:30 we could have a visual design standard and use it 12:55:43 but it's not too bad 12:55:46 unfortunately, no one cares about tiles :V 12:55:55 not true! 12:56:06 many of them tile, and that makes them look ugly 12:56:07 :[ 12:56:10 well, we can be friends keskit 12:57:04 I expect that, disregarding CAO/CDO, only 10% of players would use console. 12:57:06 changing tilesets would be a great great feature 12:57:38 I dont even care about the tiles themselves as much as the added features 12:57:45 I like being able to use my mouse 12:58:01 Blackflare: For instance, we have the opportunity to do usability testing this year and last year; that is done on the tiles build and not console 12:58:14 well, personally I can't care less about the mouse 12:58:33 have you tried it though? shift clicking to drop stuff is great 12:58:44 and you get a quick visual rundown of your inventory all the time 12:59:06 you can quickly drag the map around too 12:59:09 I can remember what's in my inventory quite effectively :P 12:59:18 :p 12:59:38 I only use the mouse in first-person shooters, and for copying and pasting large amounts of stuff. 12:59:58 Zaba is a cuddly old console curmudgeon, don't mind him :) 13:00:00 for anything else, it tends to just get in the way 13:00:02 yes 13:00:03 I think console commands are faster for copy pasting a lot of stuff isnt it? 13:00:16 there's room for both! 13:00:17 I agree with zaba 13:00:29 Zaba is afraid that the mouse cable entangles his beard :P 13:00:48 zaba made a good joke about paying fps games on linux, im assuming here 13:00:51 dpeg, not really, I have a trackball :P 13:00:56 Blackflare, why? 13:01:05 There is absolutely no reason for the discussion. We will always support console, and we will always support tiles. 13:01:15 you can get games to run ? 13:01:16 I, for one, have never played tiles. But it obvious how important they are. 13:01:19 Blackflare, why not? 13:01:22 I never had the best luck with wine 13:01:31 Blackflare, I don't need wine for most of the best things 13:01:33 (q3a) 13:01:37 oh :p 13:01:45 I mistakenly assumed current games ! 13:01:48 Blackflare, and HL1 (and derivatives) run perfectly in wine :P 13:01:53 everything else can go to hell ;P 13:01:58 haha 13:02:20 current games? Too many visuals, not enough gameplay. 13:02:34 I dont think anyone was saying you wouldnt support tiles 13:02:42 this all got started just discussing the look of it 13:05:45 anyways, I'm off to sleep. 13:05:46 I am talking to a fellow developer there. 13:05:50 Zaba: night! 13:06:56 I wonder if I could attract an artist to take a look at making an entire tileset 13:07:14 Blackflare: That would be cool 13:07:29 my girlfriend likes crawl, and shes a graphic designer 13:07:45 i'm sure the functionality for multiple user-choosable tilesets would follow 13:07:58 yeah, that wouldnt even be very hard 13:08:09 Blackflare: sounds good already! 13:08:25 lots of work of course 13:08:37 yeah, I can ask, shes probably too busy with school though 13:08:54 I would take a stab at it, but my artwork is childish at best 13:09:35 Blackflare: we have this too: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:tiles:tiles_missing_for_0.8 13:09:42 perhaps some players will enjoy a toddlers crayon scribbles tileset 13:10:03 Blackflare: the command tab tiles would be urgent for the usability testing 13:10:15 oh yeah 13:10:17 blackflare: there are alot of powder players 13:10:26 Blackflare: crayon tileset sounds like a good theme 13:10:28 I cant even use the command tab though since its been causing problems right now 13:10:42 yeah there's bugs too apparently 13:10:52 I tried powder, couldnt find it interesting 13:10:59 which is a shame, because its so portable 13:11:08 i was referring to the powder tilesets 13:11:12 oh 13:11:30 you know I got my psp to ssh into cao ;) its terrible trying to play it though, haha 13:12:13 3 rune win would probably take weeks 13:16:14 better than trying to play crawl on a macbook wheel 13:30:59 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:42 kilobyte: Hi! 13:31:48 dpeg: meow! 13:31:50 What was going on with angband.pl? 13:33:00 dpeg: some hardware failure, the guys who operate that datacenter didn't know how to bring that server back once they brought up the rest 13:34:52 if you piggyback at a fraction of the cost rather than be a regular customer, you're not a priority 13:36:10 I wonder how fast google gets their servers fixed 13:36:50 they don't, I hear they just let them rot for months, then replacing all dead nodes in one go 13:37:01 actually yeah ive heard that too... haha 13:37:36 I wonder what its like to wander an endless warehouse of server racks in various states of disrepair. Sounds like some sort of dystopian future setting 13:38:18 ...what. 13:38:50 google has a lot of servers 13:38:53 server room. definitely a fallout 3 kind of thing 13:39:07 kilobyte: some fuss about the ench split 13:39:13 (i would love that level) 13:39:38 kilobyte: perhaps it's easiest (especially for you) if you outline what made you bisect the spell like you did 13:39:58