00:17:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:18 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:34 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:54 hii 01:59:10 Wow, no emails :D 02:02:26 hi. 02:07:40 hiii 02:27:26 moin 02:50:27 03greensnark * r0195266c3ce2 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.h: Remove unused item_corpse prototype. 02:50:58 ooh a greensna . 03:05:09 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 03:08:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:43 03galehar * rc2f102f037cc 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: Fix a crash with small res. 03:48:43 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4390-gc2f102f 04:10:39 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:24 hi syllogism 04:28:10 hey 04:31:21 quiet night :D 04:45:04 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:50 -!- coolio_mc has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:40 hi coolio_mc! 05:04:57 hi mu, too 05:05:01 Mu_: the homunculus page is up :D 05:05:11 link me baby 05:05:38 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:transmutation:homunculus 05:06:06 ty 05:16:01 what do you think? :) 05:16:17 don't know 05:16:22 :( 05:16:29 what don't you know? 05:16:32 i shall provide information. 05:17:31 what level will the spell be 05:17:35 XL5 or XL6. 05:18:47 what's a soupling 05:18:47 They're not actually a summon and cannot be abjured. 05:18:47 unless it's super buff and a couple can kill a unique I don't think it would be worth it 05:19:07 st_: you honestly wouldn't pay a heal wounds potion for an ally in battle? 05:19:13 transmuters can just bladehands things to death 05:19:17 st_: if you had a stack of 7 or so? 05:19:29 not if I can kill things myself no 05:19:44 and if I can't I already have allies 05:20:06 huh. 05:20:33 I think I must be seriously missing something or I'm not explaining it properly because all I've had are negative reactions. 05:20:50 I do like the idea of the spell 05:21:03 do you think nobody would use it, or just you yourself wouldn't? 05:21:06 but it just doesn't sound too strong 05:21:30 st_: the strength of the homunculi is an infinitely adjutsable variable. 05:22:02 if they are not strong enough for the cost we can make them stronger, etc. 05:22:07 i was hopin i'd be able to cast it on a boulder and get a golem :P 05:22:17 Mu_: golems != homunculi! :o 05:22:23 I would probably use things like agil/might potions for them, because I never use those 05:22:37 st_: that's part of its niche right there. 05:22:38 so yeah I would use it if they're good enough 05:23:05 it means you have to decide 'do i keep to make homunculi and drop something else to reduce weight?' etc. 05:23:19 what alternative xl5 or xl6 spell in transmutations is there? what would I have to choose between? 05:23:29 blade hands :o 05:23:35 Napkin: most of them are transformations. 05:23:48 transmutation is boring mostly because of this fact 05:23:57 oh.. well, blade hands is for chars trained in unarmed combat only, right? 05:24:17 (the only really interesting forms are spider form for wall clinging, ice form for floating, and blade hands because... blades for hands, yeah!) 05:25:02 i think i value potions way too much for such a spell :P 05:26:14 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:18 i'm afraid that would be my problem too.. 05:26:22 * due shrugs 05:26:29 are they magic immune 05:26:31 your opinions might change once you try the spell 05:26:59 Mu_: yes, I think so. 05:27:11 Mu_: Like I said, still got to work out all the details. 05:28:06 it's boring that magic is the same effect as brilliance :P was gonna say magic could give magic immunity 05:28:27 maybe magic gives it the antimagic brand even though that's strange :P 05:28:54 Mu_: I wrote it in the four minutes I had to spare before going out this afternoon :D 05:28:58 Mu_: hence list subject to change 05:29:30 I think the idea has potential. Would never use something like !oHW though 05:29:52 unless it could really safe your butt 05:30:01 *save 05:30:27 --^ 05:30:44 Never say "never"! 05:30:50 :) 05:30:56 also, hi, napkin :) 05:31:03 hey due :) 05:31:24 !coffee due 05:31:26 * Henzell hands due a pot of black coffee, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 05:31:37 we need !tea ;) 05:31:38 !tea 05:31:42 hehe 05:33:41 agreed!# 05:33:42 amusingly, I have a beautiful cast iron teapot with a dragon on it 05:33:42 cure mut should give you the best homunculi imo. a blessed silver homunculi purifier that kills chaotic and undead enemies instantly and pacifies all natural enemies :3 05:33:42 i prize cure mut so much :( 05:33:42 Mu_: yes, exactly 05:33:42 same here 05:33:42 Mu_: but what if you're a Jiyvaite? 05:33:42 hm. 05:33:42 no, never mind. :D 05:33:42 Starting early Jiyvaites is so difficult. 05:33:42 isn't xl5-6 a bit high though? 05:33:42 nobody is a jiyvaite silly :P 05:33:42 Napkin: everything can be adjusted 05:33:42 Napkin: it could be made XL4 05:33:42 i don't know what other spells there are in transmutation and what level they are.. so i'm just babbling 05:33:47 I can't think of them off the top of my head, I'd have to look 05:33:57 but, xl4 spells are easier reachable to non-transmutation only casters too, aren't they? 05:34:47 I'd say so 05:35:10 again, I'd have to loook at the numbers 05:35:11 so, that may be a consideration for or against lowering it 05:35:57 interestingly enough, even though the "bad" potion homunculi are bad, there's still some advantage to using them--at least for the poison ones, I suppose 05:36:34 unless you have evaporate too, i would use all "bad" potions with it 05:37:45 they won't be as powerful as if you used the good potions but it's still cannon fodder 05:38:10 if i have room to carry them around with me, that it ;) 05:38:26 I must admit, despite all the "wouldn't use it" the concept and innate self-balancing nature (slightly delayed, requires a reagent that is heavy) is too awesome :D 05:38:46 hehe 05:38:58 sand blast 1, fullsome distillation 1, sticks to snakes 2, evaporate 2, stone skin 2, silver hammer 2, passwall 3, spider form 3, condensation shield 4, ice form 4, dig 4, allistairs intoxication 4, LRD 5, blade hands 5, cig's degeneration 5, polymorph other 5, ignite poison 6, statue form 6, alter self 7, dragon form 8, necromutation 8, shatter 9 05:40:04 meh, tmut is realy lacking interesting spells 05:40:04 (liquefaction 6 imo :p) 05:40:04 hey, are homonculi able to use weapons? 05:40:07 Mu_: you think it should be tmut? 05:40:11 coolio_mc: dunno. 05:40:28 coolio_mc: possibly they could use small weapons. 05:41:02 In my head they're kind of like a mixture of Pratchett's Nac Mac Feegle and goblins. 05:41:28 due: i think earth's overlap with tmut is strange when compared to the other elements so i don't know 05:41:53 Mu_: well, in this instance you are causing the ground to shake and hence it liquefies; you're not actually changing the earth. 05:42:00 Mu_: but yes, a lot of tmut needs to be dropped. 05:42:11 yeah but then LRD and shatter are kinda weird 05:42:24 sticks to snakes needs to drop summoning and have a different flavour... 05:42:41 ... ignite poison is tmut? 05:42:43 ??ignite poison 05:42:44 ignite poison[1/4]: Damages all (including you) in LOS that leave poisonous corpses or are poisoned (+cures it). Turns poison/str.poison/degen potions and poisoned ammo (including your inventory) to flame clouds. Ignites poison/noxious clouds. Also hits players who have poison attack abils/mutations. Makes a temporary poison weapon brand into temporary fire brand. 05:43:35 it's fire/tmut 05:43:40 but it should be poison/tmut 05:43:51 that... kinda makes sense in that you're "converting" poison into fire, but the name being "ignite" implies that poison is flammable and thus you're setting it on fire. 05:44:10 i think fire/something would be beter over fire/tmut. 05:44:36 no no it's the best tmut spell because it implies tmut can be extended to all chemistry and chemical reactions 05:44:44 i suppose 05:45:16 we need "blood to acid": causes acid damage to all blooded creatures in LOS. 05:46:02 make sublimation of blood necro/tmut imo :P 05:46:29 and its sister spell Aggressively Sublimate Blood which is an attack spell you cast on living creatures :P 05:47:27 blood to acid would be hilarious 05:52:53 agree 06:03:20 what's with TSOs halo being square sometimes, so ugly!! 06:09:38 I've no iea 06:10:50 hm 06:11:00 where is elliptic? i want to ask him pertinent questions about his area. :D 06:18:43 ragdoll's has a zotdef where all the monsters are frozen and don't attack 06:21:41 looks pretty 06:25:11 Narretz (L22 FeCr) ASSERT(you.see_cell(target())) in 'directn.cc' at line 1166 failed. (D:25) 06:25:22 Narretz (L22 FeCr) ASSERT(you.see_cell(target())) in 'directn.cc' at line 1166 failed. (D:25) 06:28:37 Ash I bet 06:28:47 !lm Narretz type=crash -log 06:28:47 3. Narretz, XL22 FeCr, T:109885 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Narretz/crash-Narretz-20110108-122522.txt 06:29:48 nah, Makhleb. Something with Dig's targetting. 06:30:03 I think trying to dig offlevel 06:30:26 There's also a similar LRD crash report 06:31:08 any idea what's going on with ragdoll's game? 06:31:17 Position: (0, 0) , god:Makhleb (8), turn_is_over: 0, banished: 0 06:32:53 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 06:36:02 BTW, a side effect of the transactional save format is, you can copy the save of a game -- even when it's running -- and it's supposed to be valid at any moment 06:36:18 I just stolen ragdoll's one... 06:36:32 too bad it's a @#$%^&* incompatible lua 06:52:05 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:09 hi 06:55:19 hi 06:56:01 kilobyte: So we made savescumming easier, kinda? 07:32:39 due: (sorry, sister's kid) not on Windows though, due to mandatory locking 07:32:53 so you'd have to kill Crawl to read the save 07:33:16 killing the process will work, of course 07:39:24 ah 07:41:42 * due -> sleep 07:41:58 g'night :) 07:59:03 re 08:24:19 water elementals have swim speed 60% but never actually swim because they're marked as levitating for some reason 08:26:12 Water elementals levitate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3172) by OG17 08:26:12 Water elementals don't swim (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3171) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 08:26:17 don't worry, you have two bug reports for it now 08:26:28 brb making a third 08:26:48 snap 08:28:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:31:58 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:39 hihi, felids wearing wizard hats would be nice indeed: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=1916#p1916 08:53:50 i like how casmith789 actually responded seriously 08:54:06 ty 09:03:40 Wait wait wait you can be a cat in crawl now??? 09:03:54 :P 09:05:21 Greatly looking forward to the release of this feature. <3 09:05:43 just a sign of dpeg's power waning 09:07:26 http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref;a=tree;f=crawl-ref/source/rltiles/player/felids;h=8ff4de39f642a9bd47f8345455385c7f21718822;hb=master 09:08:43 _you can play crawl as a Siamese cat that is bomb_ 09:46:39 Improve tgw_lugonu_bribe (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3173) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 09:47:19 TGWi: ^ 10:35:23 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:27 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:28 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:03:04 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:21 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:15 How did I become the most active moderator? 11:07:22 (in the tavern, I mean) 11:08:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:46 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:07 Q: has anyone seen dgamelaunch bug where the screen is blank when telnetting in to the server? 11:31:32 not me, paxed 11:31:32 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:31:35 !messages 11:31:35 (1/1) due said (6h 13m 37s ago): I'm starting to think that a "really good potion" is actually a good price to pay for a permanent ally -- who could be killed quickly if you're fighting a difficult opponent. 11:31:55 !tell due Yes, permanent or long-lived is fine. 11:31:55 dpeg: OK, I'll let due know. 11:36:04 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:56 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:51 sigh 12:28:29 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:10 -!- psyshvl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:00 -!- psyshvl has quit [Quit: suttff] 12:47:09 haven't heard anyone report that yet, paxed 12:47:40 doesn't windows telnet have that problem? 12:48:40 @? deep elf annihilator 12:48:41 deep elf annihilator (12e) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 53-79 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 12 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1707 | Sp: b.lightning (3d20), crystal spear (3d34), blink, iron shot (3d28), poison arrow (3d22), teleport self. 12:49:17 jesus.. how can lightning bolt miss him 5 times in a row :-O 12:49:48 I cannot get past Agnes without corruption :( 12:49:59 bhaak: it's apparently a race condition. i blame ncurses... 12:50:58 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:44 -!- ZChris13__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:58 casmith789: your last message on the forum warms my heart :) 12:53:08 heh 12:53:19 I'm about to follow it with another 12:53:43 casmith789: you're not quite alone in lobbying for less strict Beogh worship, but it won't happen, of course :) 12:53:57 I thought as much 12:54:07 that's fine 12:54:22 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:54:24 -!- ZChris13__ is now known as ZChris13 12:54:32 We invented Beogh to make orcs more special (monsters, player race, branch) and to add flavour where there was none (or little) before. No way we're sacrificing that now just for a little broader god appeal :) 12:55:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:14 smiling too much may cause insanity 12:55:23 :-) 12:55:33 But I don't have a nose! 12:56:14 -!- ZChris13_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:17 casmith789: what makes ranged combat unattractive for you? The interface? 12:56:32 I don't know 12:56:40 if I did I'd propose something 12:56:58 I use javelins sparingly in games but as for other ranged combat I just prefer spells in general 12:57:04 casmith789: the interface used be annoying, but by now it's quite smooth, I think 12:57:16 casmith789: I assume you use rocks on Tr and Og? 12:58:06 have played not much Og in a while, but I'm going to soon. Tr I don't really use them. 12:58:46 i think ranged combat is quite nice interface wise and nicely balanced 12:58:47 I really like TrHu and OgHu. 12:58:55 and rocks rule! :D 12:59:14 large rocks are a pain 12:59:25 It's like, oh no squishy little caster 12:59:27 BOOM 12:59:35 ouch *death* 12:59:41 shield? repel missiles? 12:59:49 ZChris13: feedback is very welcome, but remember what due said 12:59:54 i'm talking about using them - not being used by them ;) 13:00:04 wait this is crawl-dev 13:00:11 Sorry 13:00:11 yep! :) 13:00:45 Well, there are pieces of the game I have never played (not even talking about "tested" here): mummies, Pan, ziggurats, ghouls, Nemelex. Some bits just don't click with some people. 13:00:59 first time you kill an orc warrior with a single toss of a large rock - what a memory <3 13:01:36 "I forgot the name of my first girlfriend, but I will forever remember the day when I killed Sigmund for the first time." 13:01:46 lol 13:01:46 hehe 13:02:29 I was like on drugs for a week after my first nethack ascension 13:02:39 i'm not really a fan of ranged combat either, large rocks sound rather different and much easier to handle than bows/crossbows/slings though 13:02:39 bhaak: same for me 13:02:48 not that I knew how drugs are 13:03:29 MarvinPA: it is interesting to observe that ranged combat buffs have been going into every DCSS version since 0.1. 13:04:11 dpeg: I don't think it's that it's too weak 13:04:47 (apart from slings maybe) 13:04:49 I'm not fond of it for the same reason I'm not fond of conj or summ: it feels spammy 13:05:09 casmith789: nice post again 13:05:29 monky: but you manage ammunition 13:05:31 I think it may be the entire aim at enemy, select ammo for situation (this isn't too much of a problem, but it's like selecting spells with a slightly worse interface), fire, lose ammo, switch to melee weapon, melee for a bit, chop up corpse, eat, go to ammo, pick up ammo 13:06:17 casmith789: interesting, I think the interface is better than for spells... for a while I've been wondering whether we can have a spell shown on screen and use some keys to cycle. 13:07:01 I guess you could remember letters for poison arrows or whatever, however the ammo cycles through letters too quickly and I'd end up shooting my wand of healing 13:07:11 hehe 13:07:27 I know what all my spells are so it's really not a thought unless I use a spell I rarely use like borg or blink 13:07:42 the interface could clearly be improved... if I am wielding a launcher, I don't want to see missiles not fitting that launcher in the (/) cycle. 13:08:03 I have a rather systematic way to assign spell letters so I know what they all are 13:08:05 casmith789: I like the fact that I can bash 'ff' whenever I see an enemy. 13:08:13 oh I don't like that :P 13:08:18 why? 13:08:22 f. is what I use anyway 13:08:27 because ff fires the ammo too far 13:08:36 aha 13:08:49 so you would switch the two targeting commands? 13:09:01 I'd use ff````` or f.`````` 13:09:03 (We agree that 'ff' should be reserved for the most common firing mode?) 13:09:36 dpeg: this is just a quirk of the way I play. For example if I'm eating food, I could press ee but I use ey. 13:10:10 So I'd say yes, but don't put much weight on my answer. 13:10:20 omg, drama.. dpeg, please make makhlebs minor daemons friendly always? :D 13:10:36 invest in invocations Napkin :P 13:10:47 Napkin: no way! 13:10:49 "great" isn't that bad 13:11:02 geez.. i need support to convince him for other gods! 13:11:05 :> 13:11:08 unless water is around f seems much superior, if you miss the target you may hit something behind it 13:11:09 I am not completely happy with Makhleb, but the angry demons are obviously a good thing. 13:11:19 st_: or allies 13:11:30 but I never really use allies and arrows together 13:11:33 I'm not sure how ammo mulching works, but I've always assumed that it could if it hit a wall 13:11:45 first thing on a new char: map enter and f to . in targeting 13:11:47 good point, I don't know either 13:12:08 I guess we'll have RC stuff in new versions for the time to come. 13:12:34 casmith789: then an obvious interface improvement would be to make f-fired ammo make sure it stops before hitting walls (pretend it's targeted with . right before the wall) 13:13:05 wise as always monky 13:13:06 (so really if mulching on hitting walls exists, it shouldn't) 13:13:07 monky: yes 13:13:15 Who to ask? 13:13:23 the code :P 13:13:47 ammo mulches just from firing it at the ground, i think 13:14:03 so that wouldn't make a difference presumably 13:14:09 oh good 13:15:23 03j-p-e-g * r93036ae4a969 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Disallow setting exclusions while targeting. xe still works. 13:16:23 they can break at walls 13:16:35 MarvinPA: yes, just tried 13:17:05 and they seriously don't break if you fire at the ground?? 13:17:32 Napkin: if you fire one place to the right (floor), they can _also_ break 13:17:53 Napkin: your remapping is a myth! :P 13:18:19 so.. there is no difference then? between shooting enemy, wall or ground, right? 13:18:52 the problem with not using . when firing, is that the ammunition often flies into uncharted territory 13:18:59 Napkin: there is a difference, but it's not about mulching: @..Od~~~ 13:19:22 in a situation like this (tame d and water after it), you want the projectile to stop at the ogre. 13:19:28 * Napkin checks dictionary on "to mulch" 13:19:47 not sure that is a word but I didn't invent it 13:19:48 lol: mulchen :D 13:20:58 i want the projectile to stop most of the times.. only very seldomly not 13:21:16 And if you have multiple hostiles, you aim at the last one 13:22:36 but autotargeting cannot sensibly take the last one 13:25:13 -!- ahpla has quit [*.net *.split] 13:25:14 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 13:25:14 -!- Sequell has quit [*.net *.split] 13:25:44 You just have to be smarter than the machine 13:26:12 It is a game. Don't want it doing everything for you. 13:26:17 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:17 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:17 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:42 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:57 ZChris13: people argued like this against the addition of automated explore. (Shamefully, I was one of them, but luckily the others didn't listen.) 13:27:16 I'm not totally against this cool autoaim thing 13:27:26 I'm against it being too smart. 13:27:49 yes, greensnark often says the same, for example when someone proposes a change to the autoexplore algorithm 13:27:57 Like skynet or something 13:28:36 We cannot possibly make it as smart as the human player, so it's best to leave it very simple but extremely reliable. Players (should) know that in tight situations they'll have to navigate their asses manually. 13:29:25 Although I still think explore would be more convenient if we would somehow indicate where it'd head to. 13:30:14 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:16 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:36 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:02 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:26 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:44 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:25 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:26 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:28 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:12 So what's the stance on developing skynet, again? 14:45:53 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:21 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:34 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 14:54:30 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:47 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:07 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 15:08:00 -!- mspang_ is now known as mspang 15:11:12 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:39 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:58:24 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:47 wow, what just happened :-O 16:01:31 how do I make henzell give me the link to the last morgue.txt? 16:01:40 !lg Napkin 16:01:40 634. Napkin the Destroyer (L23 HEFE), worshipper of Vehumet, mangled by a giant amoeba on Slime:3 on 2011-01-08, with 398958 points after 154798 turns and 32:12:26. 16:02:16 !log Napkin 16:02:16 634. Napkin, XL23 HEFE, T:154798: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.7/Napkin/morgue-Napkin-20110108-220028.txt 16:02:25 thank you 16:02:38 :) 16:02:53 giant eye paralysis :( 16:02:58 omg.. 16:03:20 and that with "extremely" MR? 16:03:32 how sucky... 16:03:44 giant eyeballs don't go by MR, just if you can see them 16:04:08 * Napkin is biting his tongue to not call that stupid * 16:04:35 well, to be precise, I couldn't see him - there was a azure jelly blocking my view 16:05:19 it's a smite-targeted gaze, somehow :P 16:05:36 there are mirrors on the ceilings, perhaps 16:06:24 it's the same way you can see monsters behind other monsters 16:06:36 like a rat behind a dragon 16:07:50 anyways.. fuck 16:15:27 03galehar * r492397ea0f31 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.h tilereg-cmd.cc tilereg-cmd.h): Simplify 16:15:33 03galehar * rf1a0d42a0d9a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills2.cc startup.cc tilesdl.cc tilesdl.h): Tiles: fix the startuo menu layout. 16:15:45 greensnark: alive? 16:16:06 greensnark: could you estimate how long would it take to get portable lua saves? 16:16:42 excuse me 16:17:57 Napkin: "The game lasted 1day08:12:26" and a nasty splat, ouchie. 16:18:13 "fuck" is certainly warranted 16:18:40 next time I will try to join ##crawl though to drop that word ;) 16:21:08 Napkin: sorry to hear that 16:21:16 (that death, not the word) 16:21:30 hehe 16:21:58 paralysis deaths are never popular, because you're so helpless 16:22:17 not sure they are the pinacle of design 16:22:33 thanks :) 16:23:01 well, to be honest, never before thought a giant eye to be such a big threat 16:23:26 at least never got paralyzed by one in such a late game situation 16:24:01 Napkin: similar with sphinxes... you always wonder what's their point until one paralyses you and you die 16:24:28 well, the sphinxes i met were quite strong in their smiting 16:24:49 they do paralysis too? :-O 16:26:03 good to know! 16:26:40 will join my dad and whine a bit ;) let's see how his makhleb discovery is doing 16:29:20 !lg . place=Pan 16:29:20 2. KiloByte the Cutthroat (L27 SpRe), worshipper of Makhleb, slain by a great orb of eyes (summoned by Gariq) in Pandemonium on 2010-03-20, with 616089 points after 174252 turns and 16:31:56. 16:29:54 this is what giant eyes do to you 16:32:20 dpeg: have you watched ench-split commits? There's still the case of AMs and some book renaming, but I'm thinking about merging now and finishing the kinks in trunk. 16:33:39 uuh.. that's harsh, kilobyte 16:34:54 dpeg: i don't think he will try it much longer.. of 3 times calling minor daemon help, they turned twice on him (once "great" and once "excellent") and killed him 16:35:38 it'd be nice to know the friendliness rate too 16:35:56 1 out of 3 16:36:11 I mean instead of just showing the summ rate on the a? screen 16:36:45 ah.. i thought that's the same - it's not? 16:36:50 (at least I imagine it'd be confusing to get hostiles everywhere at "Excellent" without spoilers) 16:36:57 what does the friendliness rate depend on? 16:37:00 "excellent" is just your success in using the ability, rather than the chance of them being friendly 16:37:03 yeah 16:37:12 it depends on invocations but it uses a different formula 16:37:14 Napkin: you always get hostiles, including 1s 16:37:17 or something 16:37:18 Am I doing something wrong? I can't seem to find any demonic runes 16:37:22 it also depends on invocations but you need it higher than you do to simply succeed on using the ability 16:37:28 the answer is "bring moar" 16:37:30 10-12 is usually recommended 16:37:44 Pedjt: only certain vaults contain them, and of those, all of the recurring ones only have a chance of having them 16:37:54 two friendly 1s will get down the hostile one and the original threat 16:38:20 oh speaking of pan runes those are super spoilery too 16:38:26 Pedjt: how many of the fixed ones do you have? 16:38:27 so, friendliness solely depends on invocation skill? 16:38:34 kilobyte, two 16:38:35 I'll try and find the formula 16:38:45 that sounds buggy, to be honest 16:39:00 it's nowhere mentioned and in skill menu it shows "excellent" 16:39:01 kilobyte: I don't worry so much about AM. Go ahead and push the split, I have full trust in you. There will be stuff to iron out, but that's true for everything. Thank you! 16:39:10 if you ignore the fixed vaults, does each random pan vault have an equal chance of showing up? if so they should just all have a chance of a rune 16:39:34 Pedjt: in the splat I've just read, I got a demonic after three fixed ones 16:39:45 and, we're talking about minor demons.. they too need invocation skill of at least 10? 16:40:14 no, far less is enough 16:40:26 I mean, there's no such thing as "enough for reliability" 16:40:42 minor demons have the same chance as greater ones, i'm pretty sure 16:40:43 it's kinda silly that there's a separate hidden calculation for this 16:41:07 maybe there should be an (unselectable) ability "Control Minor Servant" - Poor 16:41:08 yes 16:41:10 i mean.. this will just end in him using it less and less 16:41:33 Napkin: yes, that's something spoilery we should fix somehow. 16:42:25 Is there enough space in the a screen to print: "Summon minor demon (often friendly)"? 16:42:29 and, there should be such thing as "enough for reliability" 16:42:40 that is a good part of Makhleb, a literal "god of chaos" 16:42:46 in my opinion 16:43:00 i thought he's a god of destruction... 16:43:13 kilobyte: I don't want to change the fact that you can always get hostile demons. 16:43:14 isn't nemelex chaos enough? ;) 16:43:20 It's just about communicating the chances. 16:43:22 xom and nemelex and lugonu are already chaos 16:43:24 in different ways 16:43:31 Nemelex is chaos? 16:43:32 makhleb is about destruction 16:43:37 nemelex is about chance 16:43:43 {"Orderly", "Spawn of Chaos", "Disciple of Annihilation", "Fanfare of Bloodshed", "Fiendish", "Demolition %s", "Pandemonic", "Champion of Chaos"}, 16:43:49 His name is "the trickster". 16:43:57 lugonu is an anarchist and xom is insane 16:44:06 makhleb doesn't really strike me as all that chaotic as implemented 16:44:08 just in flavour 16:44:11 Makhleb is chaos and destruction, although theme could be a bit better developer, if you ask me. 16:44:27 TGWi: I think Xom is the only sane of the bunch. 16:44:36 Nemelex doesn't even count as a chaotic god in Zin's eyes. 16:45:32 but seriously.. making minor demons unreliable.. that's just mean. people use it early.. and it costs piety - so only in emergency situations.. 16:45:49 and then you get kicked in the butt? 16:46:03 Napkin: that's something you should learn (not just Makhleb, also for decks etc.): don't want until the last moment... use it earlier! 16:46:10 I must have been very lucky to not have complained earlier ;) 16:46:14 you'd need to worship a lawful goodie-goodie god then 16:46:29 in neither case it was used in the last moment 16:46:47 get your friendliness rate up 16:46:47 Napkin: good! So you can react if it goes wrong. 16:46:48 so you can just call for more demons 16:46:54 piety is cheap 16:46:55 or teleport away etc. 16:47:00 what does last moment or early change - when you have no chance to react? 16:47:17 Napkin: the minor demon won't kill you in one hit, we hope? 16:48:08 first the smoke demon did with sticky flame, then one of the guys i can't spell ;) 16:48:56 Napkin: I think of it like this: why not use them for attack, instead of having them cover your ass when the shit is already flying? 16:48:57 well, ok, it's not one hit.. but in d2 or d3 16:49:06 Napkin: see... plenty of time :) 16:49:12 dpeg, that's exactly what he did 16:49:17 displaying friendliness rate should help too 16:49:24 he saw some sleeping orc warrior 16:49:34 Napkin: ok, that is good already 16:49:39 stepped out of sight, called the demon - and stood no chance against the demon 16:49:40 Napkin: did he survive btw? 16:49:47 no, both times dead 16:49:57 Napkin: you recall what Inv was? 16:50:01 4 16:50:05 way too low 16:50:07 yes 16:50:17 then don't grant that ability so early? 16:50:17 but, we don't explain that anywhere, of course 16:50:21 that's just mean 16:50:32 Napkin: no, you can easily build Inv with minor destruction 16:50:57 you start with 2 (MfCK) 16:51:15 and in d2 or d3 he had 4 - that's not that bad 16:51:23 i'll try it 16:51:52 Makhleb is a very universal god (works well with so many builds), although I think flavour could be better... but I said that :) 16:52:13 i like him too, no doubt 16:52:23 he's a great god 16:52:47 and about the only one with no balance problems (an useless ability aside) 16:52:54 but minor demons to be controlled easier would be nice.. because at 11 invocations you don't need minor anymore 16:53:24 cheaper, useful when you need to off a mummy or distract an oklob 16:53:28 hii 16:53:28 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:53:29 a bit less is fine for minor because they can't murder you as quickly as e.g. executioners 16:53:41 !messages 16:53:41 (1/1) dpeg said (5h 21m 46s ago): Yes, permanent or long-lived is fine. 16:53:42 kilobyte: you think there are balance problems with Elyvilon, Fedhas, Trog, Lugonu? Please indicate whether you think think they too strong or too weak. 16:53:43 (at least that's what was said here - that minor and major have the same friendliness rate) 16:54:07 evening dpeg 16:54:11 Hi due 16:54:22 hi due 16:54:44 Napkin: same friendliness rate but hostile minor is less dangerous 16:54:58 you are wrong in that 16:55:15 since you can call minor way earlier, they are actually way more dangerous 16:55:40 less dangerous assuming the same invocations skill 16:56:10 and ability to use both 16:56:13 Napkin: there are some ideas to modify Makhleb, but since the god works so well, nothing came out of it. Other okawarus^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hgods are much more urgent. 16:56:20 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:27 as i said - at the time they have the same friendliness rate the minor demon is just a gimmick 16:56:41 they always have the same friendliness rate 16:56:49 this is going in circles, I think 16:57:02 -!- psyshvl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:02 yeah 16:57:22 kilobyte: please tell me, I am very interested in feedback 16:58:26 dpeg: Lugonu is very weak, people tend to take him not as a god for her powers, but to avoid Abyss or get the rune. 16:58:53 lugonu trivializes branch endings, provided piety 16:59:02 and self-abyssal is incredibly powerful 16:59:08 Ely isn't the powerhouse as well, but I never tried a real pacifier so I don't know this well. 16:59:34 kilobyte: I don't understand it... banishment, corruption and reliable life saving sound like a good deal to me 16:59:44 Ely's remove slow is sort of broken with berserking 16:59:53 lugonu's blinking is worse than the spell and banish is handy but also a spell 16:59:53 (and the god was intended to be an option for early characters in the Abyss, yes) 17:00:05 OG17: the effects are different, though 17:00:26 also, distortion is a powerful brand 17:00:31 in that it's worse than the spell? 17:00:38 OG17: I think it'S stronger. 17:00:45 lugonu blink has the weird thing where it does some damage to things that are next to you and sometimes blinks them too, but it's not very noticeable 17:01:01 and it's uncontrollable 17:01:03 but it takes hp and can't be controlled, which makes it quite a bit worse than normal blink i think 17:01:06 MarvinPA: this is just for flavour and to make it different from blink 17:01:15 MarvinPA: it is an early ability 17:01:21 it's used exactly as blink, though 17:01:25 sure 17:01:29 right, i don't think it should be controllable necessarily 17:01:30 god ends up being taken for very situational abilities 17:01:57 st_: good point, wasn't aware of that. But isn't it piety costly? 17:02:08 lugonu blink can be used reliably in the abyss, but lugonu worshippers can also cast the spell reliably 17:02:10 Whats the best way to bait Cerebov out? 17:02:18 kilobyte: I played a dedicated healer once, and you can pacify ancient liches and 1 demons at some point. 17:02:22 big "yaaay" for the inability to rebase merges :( 17:02:23 making only the ability reliable while in the abyss seems sort of reasonable 17:02:36 just for more flavour 17:02:41 MarvinPA: I agree 17:02:50 dpeg: yeah, that's why I said I never played a hard-code pacifier after that was added 17:03:12 anyway i'd agree that lugonu is cool and useful, generally 17:03:34 not necessarily hugely powerful but still fun to play, and quite different 17:03:36 s/hard/hard-core/? 17:03:56 I'd think it's rarely useful, but very powerful a few times per game when it is useful 17:03:57 MarvinPA: one word I have learned recently is "opportunity cost": a Lugonu altar can be an interesting question early on... the god started off that :) 17:03:58 Er, hard-code. 17:04:55 kilobyte: not even necessary to be so hardcore about it... just keep pumping Inv. Isn't it good to finally have a skill where investment is useful until the end? 17:05:17 kilobyte: so I guess that you consider T and F to be on the weaker side, tooß 17:05:26 i'd almost say that banishment as a spell could go and be a lugonu-only thing 17:05:35 lugonu'd be better if there was a sense of constant low-key usefulness, at least 17:05:35 non-lugonu worshippers only really use it for mummies anyway, and there's plenty of other ways to get around potion curses 17:05:36 MarvinPA: hm... 17:05:40 MarvinPA: ooh, hm. 17:05:42 that'd be cool but flavor's weird for monsters 17:06:11 I recall the fights necessary to get rid of self-banishment from spell. 17:06:16 well,louise becomes a lugonite 17:06:27 a lugonite transporter 17:06:29 due: ogre mages, some deep elves and whatnot 17:06:40 there are plenty of other spells that only monsters can cast, but louise as a lugonite would be nice flavour 17:07:08 monky: tomb of doroklohe! 17:07:18 khufu isn't a worshipper of nemelex, after all 17:07:22 dpeg: Trog and "weaker"??? 17:07:23 I have these plans for Lugonu... if you have ideas on anything L related, pretty please post them on https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:lugonu 17:08:09 kilobyte: ah, sorry. It wasn't clear to me what you mean. I thought that concensus is Trog being a bit weakish in the very end? (I never shared that, I think the god is fine.) 17:08:09 uhm, let's see... reliable summons second in short-term power to none and in long term only to Daevas 17:08:27 the only source of +9,+15 weapons, too 17:08:42 you know my opinion on divine gifts :) 17:08:43 berserk is indeed weak at the end 17:09:01 trog is maybe the best god, I think 17:09:05 kilobyte: you cannot really spam the brothers... I think Trog is as good as Makhleb balance-wise. 17:09:12 in the sense of theme and implementation 17:09:38 weapon gifts from Okawaru are damn weak if they're randarts (you can enchant normal stuff), Trog's randarts are über 17:09:50 dpeg: yeah, the piety cost makes Trog mostly acceptable 17:09:56 kilobyte: yes, it was my idea to bias Trog's weapons towards damage 17:10:56 I'd say Trog is balanced better than the average god at the moment, yeah -- even if BiA are problematic 17:11:51 dpeg: having the source of best weapons have a serious downside (no spellcasting) and insane wrath means you can't scum him 17:12:02 and it's a nice perk so the bias is good 17:12:08 yes 17:12:36 OG17: ok. I am fine with E, F, L, M, T, Y. Perhaps J, I lack experience. 17:13:04 03chriscampbell89 * rab6660eec798 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Improve tgw_lugonu_bribe 17:13:07 03kilobyte * r3bc6414c4bd5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Bring water elementals down to the ground/water, so they can swim. 17:13:16 I haven't played Yred in a while so I can't say much about his state right now. 17:13:25 thanks for pushing Chris's patch 17:13:27 !lg god=Yred 17:13:27 No games for due (god=Yred). 17:13:29 !lg god=Yredelemnul 17:13:34 47. bookofjude the Exhumer (L1 HOPr), worshipper of Yredelemnul, slain by a kobold (a +0,+0 dagger of protection) on D:1 on 2010-08-04, with 22 points after 97 turns and 0:00:18. 17:13:40 kilobyte: I like Yrdy, but I wouldn't dare to claim he is strong enough. 17:13:45 !hs god=Yredelemnul ktyp!=winning 17:13:46 46. bookofjude the Worldly Agent (L15 HODK), worshipper of Yredelemnul, mangled by Rupert (a +2,+6 short sword of electrocution) on D:17 on 2009-08-05, with 73822 points after 38950 turns and 3:03:27. 17:13:51 Fedhas requires spoilers and a specific play style to get the most 17:14:01 which spoilers? 17:14:09 dpeg: I played him last before the big batch of changes 17:14:11 Not using fruit? 17:14:19 I'm sure I've played Yred extensively recently. 17:14:22 how to abuse water, mostly 17:14:29 If you mean by specific style shooting, then that's fine (intended). 17:14:39 or how to make effective forts 17:14:42 kilobyte: the Rain power? 17:15:05 kilobyte: how to make effective forts you learn on your own... this isn't spoiler stuff imo. We even ship a minigame so you can train a bit. 17:15:10 Rain vs landlubbers, Sunshine vs fishes 17:15:12 on yred, I remember something on the wiki about biasing towards weak ally gifts early on and stronger later; did that go in? 17:15:12 OOOH. Hexes are in trunk? 17:15:21 *wesome*. 17:15:21 kilobyte, these are spoilers? 17:15:22 ???? 17:15:29 trunk is hexcrawl 17:15:33 why do stairs decolor when you go into targeting mode? 17:15:33 I hope that's what due means 17:15:34 monky: damn, I cannot say. 17:15:37 03kilobyte * rc38051949926 10/crawl-ref/ (31 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'ench-split'. 17:15:40 No, --^ 17:15:42 :OOOOO 17:15:42 oh 17:15:46 I thought he meant that too haha 17:15:48 TGWi: he means Ench ==> Charms + Hexes 17:15:54 dpeg: yeah :P 17:15:56 ench-split just got pushed into master. 17:16:01 !coffee kilobyte 17:16:02 * Henzell hands kilobyte a pot of café au lait, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 17:16:07 !beer kilobyte 17:16:10 !wodka kilobyte 17:16:17 woadka? 17:16:21 Is that like blue-tinged vodka? 17:16:29 kilobyte will understand :) 17:16:55 Napkin: no idea 17:17:03 dolorous says it did go in but my last yred game still got a bone dragon in lair 17:17:17 st_: would you file a quick item on Mantis? 17:17:21 You can still get bone dragons from him, just not as often? 17:17:26 OR are you not supposed to get bone dragons ever? 17:17:29 I'd comment on it, hopefully I can lure dolorous into this again. 17:17:41 monky: ah, I recall a commit on the matter. 17:18:01 due: you have to work down the ladder (in a not strict fashion) 17:18:44 it's not based on piety, is it? 17:19:01 i thin it's piety and duration 17:19:17 but that's me waffling 17:19:20 actually, I make my own booze (using ready 95% stuff), mostly fruit tinctures. 17:19:30 kilobyte: :D 17:19:37 st_: what was your piety back then, and what level of lair? 17:19:50 kilobyte: Fedhas will be proud of you. 17:20:18 don't remember at all 17:24:26 if it's piety, it should maybe be duration worshipped or something instead. Yred players already go through piety very quickly, they don't need to feel tempted to avoid using abilities in order to get better allies 17:24:53 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 17:25:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalewka 17:25:47 "Here is an idea: " 17:25:47 You slowly work up the gifts. As a rough model, the first gift you get can only be among the three weakest ones. The next gift is chosen among 1…4. And so on. Each Enslaving of Soul increases the lower limit by one with a chance of (20-current lower limit)/20. 17:25:51 Feel free to trash this, but I think something can be build around this. — dpeg 17:25:57 and then dolorous implemented that 17:28:12 doesn't that encourage enslaving a bunch of weak monsters? 17:28:18 I think there's just a rare chance you can get anything, I remember looking up the commit because I was wondering about it 17:28:42 I was getting the expected sort of gifts otherwise 17:29:05 OG17: the point was that you have to get EoS workable (iirc) 17:29:38 OG17: also, it's a high piety cost 17:31:02 I'd think players would avoid normal ability use in order to afford pumping up their gift "rank" 17:31:08 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:42 if they were aware of the mechanism 17:32:15 "SUBST: P = .:9 O:1" is this right for placing O 1/9 of the time, and floor otherwise? 17:32:33 No 17:32:34 03kilobyte * r15ec3a2e0fa1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/skills.txt: Update school descriptions. 17:32:38 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:39 damn 17:32:48 how would i do that? 17:32:50 Or wait, hang on. 17:33:17 i can 17:33:18 Yes, no, you're right. 17:33:26 Sorry, I read it as NSUBST, not SUBST. 17:33:30 me too :) 17:33:34 cool, thanks :) 17:33:43 It might need to be .:10 O:1 17:33:57 the example in the docs is G:100 F:1 for 1-chance-in-100 of an F. 17:34:08 so .:9 0:1 is 1-chance-in-9. 17:34:08 right, that's what i based it on 17:34:08 no, for 1/9 of O you want .:8 O:1 17:34:12 1/10 actually... what due says is 1/11 17:34:21 okay, so i want what dpeg said 17:34:24 haha 17:34:28 i think? 17:34:29 heh 17:34:33 kilobyte: The documentation disagrees. 17:34:48 MarvinPA: I hope O stands for oklob!? 17:35:02 heh, i'm afraid not :P 17:35:39 my plan was to make a patch so that each of the random pan vaults has the same chance of generating a demonic rune 17:35:49 but adjusting the chances so that your overall chance of finding one is still the same 17:35:56 ok 17:36:17 so that players don't have to look up spoilers like which of the random vaults can contain a rune, and are forced to at least peek into all the pan vaults 17:36:26 MarvinPA++. 17:36:32 +1 17:37:27 I support this idea intensely. 17:37:46 :) 17:37:56 -!- syllogism has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:38:24 i'm learning the level syntax as i go, but it seems reasonably simple since i'm just tweaking existing stuff 17:38:59 It is in general quite simple. 17:39:08 The things that are not smiple are the SUBST and NSUBST syntaxes. 17:39:30 WTH... cat armour: http://jeffdeboer.com/Galleries/CatsandMice/tabid/77/moduleid/433/viewkey/photo/photoid/123/Default.aspx 17:40:53 kilobyte: :D!! felids should be able to wear armour then! ;) 17:42:21 die fucking enum numbering comments die die 17:42:50 the samurai cat mask on that site kicks ass, too 17:43:06 03kilobyte * rfba2228f7a0a 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Fix a documentation error. 17:43:14 felid barding 17:44:03 hmmm 17:44:10 implementing a new dragon armour is a bit of a pain 17:44:13 to the tags.cc! 17:45:13 due: don't bother, just please push your changes to a branch 17:45:28 kilobyte: hm? 17:45:32 are you bumping major? 17:45:45 no reason to sit on that for too long 17:46:07 heck, in the past we never get past 5 minor... and now we're on 32 17:46:13 s/get/got/ 17:46:39 I don't mind writing a quick shim, it only has to adjust CENTAUR_BARDING and NAGA_BARDING by two. 17:47:27 right, shortening Elf would be prohibitively hard, though 17:49:11 Zaba: awake? 17:49:50 Zaba: you said you'd want to name level save chunks by their level_id descriptions rather than the current cryptic 03d 17:50:46 http://sprunge.us/OEjI 17:50:56 that is correct, yes? 17:51:08 pearl hide and armour got slotted in at the end of the dragon armours, before the bardings 17:52:44 Ah, never mind. 17:53:47 !tell bhaak "Having said that, I've seriously taken to Crawl. It's telling when you log onto nethack.alt.org and wonder why autoexplore isn't working." 17:53:48 dpeg: OK, I'll let bhaak know. 17:56:23 ??dragon armour comparison[2] 17:56:23 dragon armour comparison[2/2]: Dragon: (h) AC8 EV-3 rF++ rC- 35aum | Ice dragon: (h) AC9 EV-3 rC++ rF- 35aum | Storm dragon: (h) AC10 EV-5 rElec 60aum | Gold dragon: (h) AC11 EV-9 rF+ rC+ rPois 110aum 17:56:37 I can't rmemeber what we decided on. 10 -3 or 9 -2? 17:59:27 autoexplore... travel would be nice, too 18:12:16 -!- Kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:58 casting sublimation on self as a vampire without enough blood wastes a turn and mp 18:13:16 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3067 18:14:51 oh good I don't have to report it 18:15:01 :) 18:15:16 imo it should take blood away even then 18:15:26 it's better than waiting for blood level to drop, at least 18:15:40 unless it's abusable or something 18:15:44 or otherwise undesirable 18:16:40 yeah, someone on the wiki suggested it being usable to quickly reach low blood 18:16:50 losing blood is okay, but it shouldn't be instant 18:17:30 was there something on the wiki about an ability to speed blood loss? that would be nice 18:17:55 on vampire interface, does anyone else have troubles with drinking poisonous blood near the top of Thirsty inducing Pois before stopping 18:18:14 monky: oh, that sounds like an oversight 18:18:32 you go right into rP again? 18:19:08 it stops somewhere in satiated and I usually like to hover in Thirsty 18:19:19 so I get myself back there with Regen 18:19:50 grep -R gold_dragon rltiles/* 18:19:53 erm 18:19:57 when I played vampire (a long time ago) I drank blood and stopped when I got to the end of thirsty and became thirsty the next turn 18:20:12 yo uare not my terminal :| 18:20:36 further on vampire interface, it would be nice if crawl prompted (or simply avoided, in the case of the bite aux) for actions that would change blood level dangerously (like going to Satiated while in miasma) 18:21:19 monky: wiki, please 18:21:25 no time right now to keep track of stuff 18:21:42 I'll put it on the wiki 18:22:10 03kilobyte * rbdee8216e01a 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Mark rings of hunger as bad for ghouls. 18:23:03 monky: thank you 18:29:39 Adjust random demonic rune chances (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3174) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 18:30:02 whee 18:30:22 not a dev eh? 18:30:34 -!- psyshvl has quit [Quit: stuff] 18:30:40 no, i just submit patches to bend crawl to my will :P 18:32:01 MarvinPA: thank you 18:32:11 MarvinPA: that is very nice 18:32:20 (concept, that is, haven't looked at the execution) 18:32:23 :) 18:33:41 i hope i did it in a reasonable way, i certainly wouldn't be surprised if there's a more efficient method that i don't know about but it doesn't look too ugly at least :P 18:34:41 CROSSHOST forces building contribs, misdetects ncurses (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3175) by KiloByte 18:35:26 MarvinPA: I believe you could simplify rand_demon2 to KMONS: PO = pandemonium demon 18:35:29 having a steaming pile of hard-coded dirs breaks cross builds totally :( 18:35:46 MarvinPA: you'd have to double check with enne because I can't remember exactly what got converted to use this syntax 18:36:04 Anyway, it looks fine to me! 18:36:12 dpeg: Shall I apply? 18:39:49 rand_demon_6 has no proper vault so it might be spared 18:40:20 but a rune just lying around is not totally unacceptable, though 18:40:23 kilobyte: i don't understand why your cross-environment chooses amd64 curses 18:40:39 this is working fine on CDO with CROSSHOST=i686-pc-mingw32 18:40:54 because mingw32 is special cased 18:41:14 it doesn't have ncurses, huh? 18:41:30 nevermind then 18:41:32 no need for ncurses there, too 18:41:45 but please keep mingw builds working 18:41:54 wouldn't it be too easy to apport the rune from some of those vaults? 18:41:59 due: sure 18:42:12 FPROP: no_apport 18:42:25 (I am kidding, of course) 18:42:42 we might use that chest idea 18:42:43 (Because if I do that some well-meaning person will decide to FPROP the orb that.) 18:42:45 i believe crosshost has never yet used to cross-compile anything else than mingw or dos 18:42:52 but the issue is fine 18:43:02 1's probably the only one that's particularly easy 18:43:17 I mean, not fine, valid 18:43:56 maybe it could get a couple of added 1s to wake up the pan lord 18:43:59 6; possibly 8 and 3 18:44:35 6 and 8 the demons on the outside would wake everything up, surely 18:45:12 why is having the stealth skill to be able to apport the rune an issue? 18:45:17 or rather, is it? 18:45:42 and yeah, if you're stealthy enough that you can get around without waking up 1s then it's probably fine :P 18:46:05 especially since you'll now have to look into lots more demon vaults instead of instantly skipping most of them 18:46:28 so just 1 then I guess 18:46:34 kilobyte: Can you double-check my pearl dragon save-compat? http://sprunge.us/Hceb 18:46:54 Erm, wrong patch. 18:47:20 kilobyte: http://sprunge.us/NKjb rather, not the whole commit but the compat bit 18:47:39 and for hellion island, is it possible to see the rune from outside of the lava? 18:48:01 monky: you'll still get hellfire'd,, no? 18:48:17 due: you need to change every item being unmarshalled, too 18:48:26 yeah, you can see the rune but you'll have 10 hellions or so in sight :P 18:48:28 but not near as much as someone who has to hack through all the hellions (though I do not know if this is a problem) 18:48:32 kilobyte: ah, yes! thanks 18:49:03 pearl dragon? o_O 18:49:33 holy dragon 18:49:39 @??pearl dragon 18:49:40 unknown monster: "pearl dragon" 18:49:42 meh 18:49:46 holy dragon got renamed 18:50:35 lemme recompile monster 18:51:27 thanks 18:51:49 kilobyte: http://sprunge.us/ecVd items done too now, anything else you can think of? 18:52:46 seems to be ok 18:52:53 excellent, now compile test... 18:52:55 not sure if that's enough, of course 18:53:01 yes 18:53:15 all items should go through marshall/unmarshall item... 18:53:26 and the only other place armours seem to be touched was the seen_armour bit. 18:55:34 good night 18:55:36 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:57:24 night 18:57:36 Oh, damn 18:57:58 Can someone do a minor_version 32 save with a naga barding in it? 18:58:03 or wait, no 18:58:05 I can, yay 19:06:08 -!- coolio_mc has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 19:06:45 @??pearl dragon 19:06:45 pearl dragon (08D) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 13 | HD: 18 | Health: 91-140 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 35, 20 | Flags: 08holy, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(168) | XP: 5712 | Sp: holy breath (3d36). 19:07:15 the tile is inappropriate, though 19:07:26 The eastern dragon? 19:07:37 Yeah, I'll need to throw it back up on the wiki. 19:09:07 that green bearded version might fit well when recoloured 19:09:15 the eastern one might be harder 19:11:11 Hm, we could recolour the eastern dragon to be a shiny white. 19:11:22 but I don't think it would look good. 19:11:44 maybe we could use the eastern dragon tile for xtahua instead? 19:13:05 why not recolor the eastern dragon? 19:13:27 if the bearded one is the godzilla-suit one that was pretty bad 19:15:49 oh sorry due I completely missed that last chunk of messages 19:16:00 I tried simple recolouring of the green one, doesn't look good 19:16:46 OG17: I'm not sure how recolouring the eastern would go 19:17:27 I've seen yellowy pearlish chinese dragons but maybe it doesn't work with the sprite 19:17:39 I'm going to try it 19:17:42 just not at the minute 19:30:38 new horror tile found http://par0xysms.tumblr.com/post/2648474629 19:30:57 hah <3 19:34:40 that is one area where TOME oneups us, by the way. They have multiple eldritch horror uniques! 19:42:11 I have no aversion to adding lots of eldritch horrors, even if they're only ever seen in the abyss. :D 19:42:14 http://angband.pl/tmp/pearl1.png, http://angband.pl/tmp/pearl2.png 19:43:00 recoloured eastern is... meh. 19:43:18 the first one looks cool though! 19:46:13 I'll better leave it to our tile guys 19:48:28 i like the second one much more but i don't really like either of them 19:48:50 the second one could be good with a bit of work making the colors more distinct though 19:49:23 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:53:11 Eronarn: I tried, but merely jacking contrast up is not enough 19:53:29 so I'd better stick with console :p 20:00:11 pearl dragon tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3176) by KiloByte 20:16:50 03kilobyte * r3bf9a6d9bcbf 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Fix tiles compilation. 20:21:54 wheee it's broken 20:22:22 read too much or too little form the file, meh. 20:22:29 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 20:22:51 I wish we could convert tags.cc into a "save file viewer". 20:23:19 ie, an object-by-object comparison of the save with the relevant functions. 20:23:37 is this even possible? 20:23:46 not sure what do you mean 20:24:35 okay, some way of converting tags.cc and all of the relevant marshall/unmarshall code into a list of functions and variables; taking a save file, and in one pane representing the actual data (byte, etc), and in the other pane thee relevant function and variable. 20:26:40 this would work only for simple structures, I think 20:29:11 or... 20:29:30 replacing each of the "marshall/unmarshall" functions with something that prints a variable name. 20:29:36 or variable type, rather. 20:30:42 -!- psyshvl has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:45 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:33:51 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:00 -!- psyshvl has quit [Quit: stuff to do] 21:15:55 03kilobyte * rcdda962002cd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Add coolio's deep dwarf tiles (vanilla, scion, artificer, DK, unborn). 21:18:08 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:52 Oh damn, I forgot to check tiles compilation. 21:36:55 Meh, will start that now. 21:37:10 03due * rf80e627b19b5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (20 files in 5 dirs): Pearl dragons now leave pearl dragon armour. 21:41:33 * due fixing. 21:42:07 So far so good. I'll pus hthe first fix and if there are further required will do that too. 21:42:21 03due * r5d69e244550f 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-item.txt: Fix tiles compilation. 21:42:41 ??dragon armour 21:42:41 dragon armour[1/3]: A magical armour, made from the scales of a fire-breathing dragon. It provides great protection from the effects of fire, but renders its wearer more susceptible to the effects of cold. (AC 8, EV -3, ++fire, -cold, 35 aum). All races but felids can wear this. 21:47:37 Napkin or kilobyte: where is the source for monster? 21:50:33 due: do you want to rebuild it or hack on it? 21:50:52 kilobyte: hack it 21:51:04 oh, hang on 21:51:19 for the latter, there's a repository on cdo, I forgot where, but for me and you, "git clone cdo:source/monster" does work 21:51:20 I can probably just clone crawl@crawl.develz.org:source/monster, yeah? 21:51:24 yeah 21:51:25 yeah 21:59:01 why do you block rF from randart PDAs? 21:59:21 oh, oops 21:59:25 I thought I'd taken that line out 21:59:39 or rPois in another place 21:59:57 rPois? 22:00:02 I don't remmeber putting anything in for rPois 22:00:11 I remeber putitng something in for rF but then going "oh wait, I should take that out" 22:00:53 should I remove it? 22:01:26 I just pusehd removing rF 22:01:47 03due * r59faee277372 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Let randart PDA have rF+, etc. 22:06:35 is pda really 10 ac -2 ev like the learndb says? SDA is 10 -5 22:06:54 03dolorous * radb58a505236 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Typo fixes. 22:06:56 03dolorous * r87fd3036fd25 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Tweak wording. 22:07:37 while swamp's 7 -2 22:07:47 OG17: yes, it really is. 22:07:55 yes, it's really overpowered at the minute. 22:07:59 IDA is somewhere in there with 9 -3 22:09:31 03kilobyte * rf283390aa6ee 10/crawl-ref/source/tag-version.h: Automatically update TAG_MINOR_VERSION. 22:09:33 03kilobyte * r6782f4e2b546 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Fix armour brand checks. 22:09:35 03kilobyte * r0350982f5f90 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Typo fix. 22:09:37 03kilobyte * r90676d8a21dd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (ghost.cc mac/Makefile.app-bundle): Whitespace fixes. 22:09:49 pda could have stealth- because it's so visible 22:10:19 I mean you'd still want to change the numbers and the stealth might not end up being a huge gameplay effect but it's thematic at least 22:10:42 well, GDA is golden but not Stealth--. 22:10:57 03due * r6ff8a4a51235 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick-p.cc: Actually fix tiles compilation. 22:11:07 if you wear heavy armour you don't care about stealth 22:11:17 joking around: -4ev +10ac rn+ halo 22:11:24 it's not exactly heavy right now 22:11:28 too bad halos are tso's thing 22:12:17 blocking invis might work 22:14:48 03dolorous * r065bf34660e3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Tweak more wording. 22:17:08 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:32 okay 22:21:40 now I am mentally ignoring ##crawl-again 22:21:46 i do not know why i let myself get drawn into such a stupid argument. 22:28:06 yay, the linker on armel goes into an infinite loop when compiling Crawl 22:28:27 5:28 though, I'm wimpying out. Hold the fort! 22:29:15 (or don't, Crawl won't fail without constant attention) 22:29:42 "armel"? 22:30:50 the #1 architecture these days, far more numerous than i386+amd64 together 22:31:25 :o 22:31:29 all phones, all modern routers, and so on 22:31:32 ARM? 22:31:34 oh 22:31:54 I read it as "atmel" to start with. 22:32:08 which... yes, was a bit of an odd mental iimage 22:32:22 I'll look into the breakage tomorrow 23:02:23 night 23:11:19 Napkin: ping me when you wake u p? :D 23:12:28 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:12 -!- TGWi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:14 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:14 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 23:20:16 03dolorous * r09a3649e96aa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Add descriptions for vanilla deep dwarves and deep dwarf death knights. 23:20:22 03dolorous * re7a6df02378f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix deep elf conjurer description.