00:07:50 -!- Zchris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:50 -!- psyshvl has quit [Quit: stuff] 01:30:12 fingers crossed 01:35:11 reboot and clean coompile seemed to fix it! 01:43:44 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:07 who's the crash magnet? 01:51:52 silent crash on taking stairs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3117) by ortoslon 01:52:08 i'm the crash magnet 02:42:04 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:12 :D! 02:43:14 :DDD! 02:43:25 ortoslon: You run windows, yes/ 02:43:42 03due * r38aababc9ea5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Re-implement certain tile flags as packed_cell struct members. (Tiles) 02:44:01 ortoslon: How have you found the assertion dialogs? 02:48:19 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:07 03greensnark * rf008b531323d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (showsymb.cc showsymb.h): Clean up >80 column lines in showsymb.cc. 03:05:18 03greensnark * raad09a6bfb86 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h showsymb.cc tag-version.h tags.cc): [3114] Fix remembered feature mimic crash. 03:20:45 due: i met them but there wasn't one in this case 03:21:26 greensnark: is that the crash where mons_is_knoown_mimic is called with a null pointer/ 03:21:37 due: Yes 03:22:22 <3! 03:22:27 That has been on my list of things todo forever 03:22:43 Likewise the agrid isn't being invalidated/initialised when you load a game. 03:22:59 You have to move before haloes, silence, etc, apply. 03:23:09 ... actually, that probably makes it abusable. 03:23:18 You could save, load, cast a spell while silenced, repeat. 03:25:13 moin 03:25:38 due: and yes, i run windows xp 03:26:08 ortoslon: Have they been more ... helpful than just exiting? Or at least, less sstartling? 03:26:51 it wasn't just exiting 03:27:12 if you ran crawl from a terminal like cmd or far manager, the assert was printed on screen 03:27:31 still, a nice change for those who run crawl through an icon 03:28:10 Well, yeah. 03:28:31 I would imagine less people run it through a command prompt though, or otherwise. 03:31:18 i'm just using a norton commander clone as an explorer replacement :) 03:33:19 re: channel topic http://www.petitiononline.com/WALRI/petition.html 03:50:27 greensnark, so is #3114 resolved now? 03:51:13 Zaba: yes, why do you ask? 03:53:38 * due making swamp less ugly in tiles. 03:55:15 * ortoslon has high hopes for due 03:56:33 shoals is ugly as well 04:00:11 well, I think my very simple change will make it look less ... weird. 04:00:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:16 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:59 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:44 Oooh, it makes a massive difference. 04:08:10 Not perfect, but interesting. 04:10:50 can't wait to look 04:21:46 Can't get the waves right 04:24:00 swamps have waves? 04:24:14 Well, not waves. 04:24:17 But the shore line. 04:26:05 We need to lighten the troll machine guns. 04:26:13 And give them sleeves. 04:26:17 They look odd in tank tops. 04:34:19 ooohhh, I know. 04:42:18 ... wow, it looks really good 04:42:48 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:40 due: Screenshot or it didn't happen 04:55:57 greensnark: Hang on 04:56:27 * greensnark slings a pineapple at due. 04:56:28 03due * r65f0ce5894dc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tiledgnbuf.cc tiledgnbuf.h tileview.cc): Make Swamp prettier. (Tiles) 04:57:41 Did you get rid of the choppy water outlines? 04:58:29 -!- Lollipop has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:22 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:37 greensnark: No 05:04:45 greensnark: Trees are now drawn with shallow water beneath them in swamp 05:04:59 Ah 05:05:45 Stone in the swamp looks terrible :/ 05:08:34 greensnark: http://jeah.net/~jmc/swamp.png 05:09:14 Nice 05:09:22 I am doing a comparison photo. 05:09:23 Cute little lizard thing catching some zzs in the vault 05:09:29 it's a swmap drake 05:09:42 Aha 05:15:28 due: Is that another vault in the center of hte map 05:17:26 -!- Lollipop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:52 greensnark: Yes, I was placing random swamp vaults trying to remmeber which one had trees in it. 05:19:18 :P 05:19:32 yay segfault 05:19:41 Way down the segfault river 05:19:54 We need a segfault creek vault 05:19:58 :| std::string segfault. 05:20:04 With program bugs in the shallows 05:20:45 hah, yes 05:23:44 http://jeah.net/~jmc/swamp2.png 05:23:46 original swamp 05:24:11 http://jeah.net/~jmc/swamp3.png a screenshot of a few moments later demonstrating the trees->shallow water replacement. 05:29:03 due: Trees in water look much nicer now 05:29:18 All you need to do is get rid of the blocky tiles for water and you're set! 05:30:21 can trees be destroyed? what will be left after them? 05:30:32 ortoslon: water 05:30:37 ortoslon: this was previously the case in swamp 05:30:37 ah good 05:30:50 thus my reasoning for drawing water under them 05:31:05 greensnark: Yeah,the blocky tiles look okay in dungeon but horrible in swamp. 05:31:20 greensnark: I am beseeching my friend to do mangroves :D 05:32:55 or willows 05:32:58 or gasp both :D 05:32:58 Weeping willow unique 05:33:50 I thin kwe need a less red floor for swamp. 05:33:52 I wonder what would happen if we just decreased the red saturation. 05:33:52 I think ASCII looks like distilled awesomeness compared to tiles 05:33:53 it is so hard to live up to ASCII in tiles 05:33:58 I know! 05:34:00 wut 05:34:02 however the new Dungeon tiles are *amaznig*. 05:34:11 i wish purge would come back to do new sets fo reverywhere 05:34:14 Not as hot as a nice font 05:34:36 The tiles interface has advantages, but I'm unconvinced about the visual distinguishability of tiles 05:34:43 crawl ascii looks much worse than doomrl ascii! 05:34:44 ASCII 4ever 05:35:00 ortoslon: That's because you don't know how to set up your terminal correctly :P 05:35:25 Unicode 4ever! 05:35:37 If you're on Windows XP that is not your fault, but newer Windowses and the civilized OSes can do great fonts 05:35:37 crawl ascii looks worse than nethack decgraphics! 05:35:45 That's a matter of opinion. Some people like NH wallification; I don't :) 05:35:48 we should package a decent terminal emulator with our games 05:36:01 Ugh, I have a decent terminal emulator, thanks 05:36:09 *for win32 05:36:10 Oh, you mean for the Windows users 05:36:11 greensnark: I use the Tango colour scheme wit the slightly muted lightblue. It is so beautiful. <3 05:37:18 It's like a gorgeous pastel dungeon as opposed to "zomg that is BRIGHT". 05:37:26 greensnark: i've used a registry hack to try consolas but didn't like it (i'm still playing doomrl with lucida console font) 05:37:27 ortoslon: What windows version? 05:37:27 windows xp sp3 05:37:27 XP's text rendering is terrible, but Vista and Win 7 are okayish 05:37:42 ortoslon: You should totally upgrade some time 05:37:55 not on this four year old pc 05:37:56 * bhaak prefers fixedsys 05:38:28 I think Aero is an incredibly moronic idea with all the transparency to distract you from your foreground window, but text rendering is way better 05:40:52 you mean cleartype? i have cleartype on 05:40:52 And the start menu search is good enough that I can find system settings although I use Windows about once in six weeks and can't remember anything 05:40:55 ortoslon: Even with cleartype XP is much inferior to >=Vista in text rendering 05:40:55 shrug 05:41:24 Yeah, until you get used to better text rendering you won't notice that XP is ugly :) 05:47:08 in ?/M listings the (I'm guessing it's HD) "monster toughness" sort is rather badly named 05:51:36 Why? 05:51:54 because it doesn't correspond at all to monster toughness 05:52:33 higher HD monstes usually equate to more difficult but it's all relative to where you are in the dungeon. 05:52:43 "danger level"? 05:52:57 danger level is even worse 05:55:47 (though I think sorting by HD is odd in itself, with it being so technical and unrelated to actual danger) 05:56:05 crash+assert on taking stairs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3118) by Radzia 06:07:29 greensnark: doing our own text rendering in Windows console has been proposed before, and it's a tempting idea 06:07:43 kilobyte: swap is pretyt now! 06:14:23 what the fuck is wrong with Google images... there's a well known folk devil named Rokita, usually depicted on a swamp among willows... but no matter what set of words I use in the query, I get faces of random bozos or even stuff like a parchment with the US constitution 06:23:55 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 06:34:24 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 06:40:06 hrm, damn. I can't figure out how and where to best (de)allocate the vault_placements if I want to make _build_vault_impl to return the pointer to one. 06:41:02 the obvious way (allocating vault_placement with new rather than on the stack in _build_vault_impl, making dgn_register_place take a pointer to it) requires deleting it when an error occurs in _build_vault_impl, which is ugly.. 06:41:23 std::auto_ptr seems to be something to counter that, but I've no idea how to use that.. 06:48:56 -!- TGWiglaf has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:02 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:26 -!- TGWiglaf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:34:47 Kogan (L14 DEWz) (D:15) 07:35:34 !lm Kogan crash -log 07:35:34 2. Kogan, XL14 DEWz, T:40027 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Kogan/crash-Kogan-20110101-133446.txt 07:36:17 greensnark, did the fix for #3114 not hit cdo yet? 07:37:05 seems so 07:37:14 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:30 the fix is 0.8.0-a0-4245-gaad09a6 07:37:43 right. 07:37:43 the morgue file is 0.8.0-a0-4242-g86591b1 07:38:29 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:32 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 07:38:32 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:19 cdo is updating 07:45:38 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4246-g65f0ce5 (31.27) 08:17:20 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:08 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:03 crap, disabling warnings inside ASSERT() is doable only in gcc-4.6 and new clangs :( 08:58:07 error: #pragma GCC diagnostic not allowed inside functions 09:00:04 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:43 cheers 09:08:13 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:59 Souljazz (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed. (D:7) 09:10:05 Souljazz (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed. (D:7) 09:10:59 Souljazz (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed. (D:7) 09:11:33 Souljazz (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed. (D:7) 09:15:45 Souljazz (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed. (D:7) 09:18:53 everyone's asleep or attending their hangovers? 09:19:41 !coffee dpeg 09:19:41 * Henzell hands dpeg a cup of caffè macchiato, brewed by Gastronok. 09:19:45 !lm Souljazz -log 09:19:45 411. Souljazz, XL8 DDCK, T:5679 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Souljazz/crash-Souljazz-20110101-151546.txt 09:20:12 So that bug is still alive 09:20:29 !lm Souljazz crash ddck noun= 09:20:29 No milestones for Souljazz (crash ddck noun=). 09:20:32 !lm Souljazz crash ddck noun=~m.mid 09:20:32 5. [2011-01-01] Souljazz the Cudgeler (L8 DDCK) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2952 failed on turn 5679. (D:7) 09:20:36 !lm Souljazz crash ddck noun=~m.mid 1 -tv 09:20:36 1. Souljazz, XL8 DDCK, T:5608 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 09:22:15 !lm Souljazz crash ddck noun=~m.mid 1 -log 09:22:15 1. Souljazz, XL8 DDCK, T:5608 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Souljazz/crash-Souljazz-20110101-150958.txt 09:23:09 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:23 greensnark: hi! 09:23:49 dpeg! 09:23:52 How's the Rammstein going 09:25:05 hi dpeg! how's your d&d parties going? 09:25:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_airshow_disaster 09:25:28 * dpeg has a hunch the new year is going to suck :) 09:25:53 Jeff Lait gave a D&D Monster Manual to Johann. 09:26:10 lol 09:27:13 you already should prepare yourself for the day when your kids are going to discover nethack :-) 09:27:52 dpeg's kids are going to write a new NH variant just to drive dpeg nuts 09:28:24 I hope they'll write computer viruses which shake the world upside down before the age of 14. 09:28:39 dpeg: That's what I just said 09:30:21 "You may play D&D, programm in Java, use Windows, but I won't allow NetHack games in this house!" 09:30:58 Yuck, Java 09:31:34 with a bit of luck, they won't discover nethack but unnethack :-) 09:32:55 topatheresa 09:32:59 ^ daugher on keyboard 09:36:32 bhaak: I suggest adding an additional un prefix for each new major version of unnethack 09:36:44 So 4.x would be UnUnNethack and so on 09:37:23 Un^2NetHack? 09:37:39 Sure! 09:38:09 * bhaak thinks greensnark was partying too much 09:38:23 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:38:24 Nobody appreciates my terrific versioning ideas 09:38:57 Crawl could shift to a versioning system where versions are transcendental numbers only 09:39:30 I once proposed a pi-headed hydra as a unique 09:39:44 So much cooler than the Lernaean yawn hydra 09:40:41 We could also give hydras a complex number of heads 09:40:49 So you could chop off the real heads but not the imaginary heads 09:41:08 imaginary heads that only do imaginary damage? 09:41:28 They could attack your sanity stat 09:41:36 What Angband variant had a sanity stat 09:42:00 hitting a hydra with a chaos weapon should have a chance of multiplying the number of heads by i 09:45:18 <3 09:45:46 03greensnark * r4469633ff52b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Fix ghosts not getting mids (casmith789's ghost). 09:50:39 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4247-g4469633 (31.27) 10:08:36 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4247-g4469633 10:20:27 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:22:21 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:52 03kilobyte * r0a626dba8951 10/crawl-ref/source/viewgeom.cc: Silence a gcc-4.5 warning for a tautological assert. 10:43:54 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:44:38 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:46 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:54 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:09 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32:49 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:49 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 11:32:49 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:09 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:04 -!- kurper has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:49 is okawaru gifting a +3 nonartifact animal skin a bug (since they should only be able to be +2 now)? 11:43:07 or is okawaru just that cool 11:50:00 I'd say it wasn't a bug, because trog/oka can gift weapons at higher than +9 11:50:03 I'd consider okawaru gifting animal skins at all a bug, or at least a design flaw 11:50:33 hey, the skin of zhor is cool 11:57:18 I still wonder whether anybody actually uses the dolinks/domake scripts 11:58:00 Naga Spit Poison + mutation -> Poison Gas (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3119) by dolphin 11:59:33 I used them before I realised they only made life miserable and it was easier to build without them 12:07:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:22 -!- st_ has quit [] 12:28:48 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:54 kurper: non-artifacts are (or should be) always capped, but the cap hasn't been updated for acquirement 12:40:59 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 12:53:01 -!- psyshvl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:40 kilobyte: do we want that cap for randarts? 12:54:11 We could also make it more probably that the AC enchantment of a randart is at AC cap or something similar. 13:08:24 dpeg: not sure about randarts (save for plates/GDAs/CPMs having a chance for something higher) 13:08:54 regular stuff seems to be clear to me, though 13:18:21 kilobyte: fully agree on regular stuff 13:18:35 we don't want players to try out all robes, hoping for that +3 one 13:33:47 -!- Zchris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:07 are you suggesting we get randart +14 CPM? 13:40:57 is CDO down? 13:41:05 casmith789: nah, +15 13:41:09 casmith789: you could in principle already get one right now, I think 13:41:36 all randart plates/cpm/gda are around 1-5 as far as I know 13:41:41 +1-5 13:41:51 I've never seen a piece of randart armour with enchantment above +7 13:42:04 it's much more common for them to be low anyway 13:42:05 and the +7 were not body armour 13:42:33 with ash I've basically been IDing every artefact for fun, and I never saw any really high values even when zigrunning 13:42:40 but I didn't do as many zigs as some 13:45:01 should a portal mimic that's pretending to be a labyrinth give the same "yo there's a labyrinth here" message as a real one would? 13:45:20 otherwise it's not very convincing 13:53:22 it would be extremely annoying otherwise 13:55:52 only mundane armour (no troll, dragon, crystal) can have semi-decent enchanrment as randarts 13:59:57 -!- Zchris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:07:11 03dolorous * rb98fa1c7597b 10/crawl-ref/source/libutil.cc: Revert "Properly pluralize "deep dwarf unborn" as "deep dwarves unborn"." 14:07:17 03dolorous * rbd72dfe81c0a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspell.txt: Tweak wording. 14:07:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:35 03dolorous * r6098fc64cbb0 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.h: Make a prototype's variable name match the function's. 14:07:57 03dolorous * ra12db9831cff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Rename "deep dwarf unborn" to "unborn deep dwarf". 14:24:31 kilobyte: good to know. We're free to change any of this, of course. 14:24:54 kurper: yes, due knows. Not quite clear what we'll do. In the end there's probably no way around full consistency. 14:26:00 well, or just not letting portal mimics be of the types that have messages 14:27:58 yes 14:28:56 -!- m1nced has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:05 A boring beetle just escaped from the d:1 vault... 14:30:10 haha 14:30:16 m1nced: it is very slow 14:30:26 mostly a problem b/c of good xp 14:30:28 I didn't think it was supposed to happen. 14:30:32 speaking of boring beetles escaping from vaults, there's a xom overflow with shapeshifters behind glass (dig or teleport into it if you want to worship xom), and if one turns into a boring beetle it can dig out (this has happened to me) 14:31:01 monky: so we need stone glass there? 14:31:26 well it wouldn't matter if they can path around it; can they? 14:31:36 it's xom_shifter_show 14:32:02 yes 14:36:18 monky: I cannot do anything about it. 14:36:29 just looking at the map 14:36:41 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:22 I've browsed the code left and right, then forced over 3k Okawaru gifts... and not a single animal skin above +2 14:38:35 kurper: what version are you plaing? 14:38:51 the cap wasn't fully applied soon after the change 14:41:26 3k animal skins of Okawaru --> <3 14:44:51 3k forced gifts, there isn't that many skins. He has a 1/12 hard-coded chance to turn any body armour acquirement (50% of divine armour acq) into animal skins, but after the first skin subsequent ones are very likely to be re-rolled. 14:46:32 kilobyte: a0-4201-g8de0841 14:46:36 i think 14:46:57 yeah 14:47:38 kilobyte: at some point, perhaps not now, I'd like to talk to you about my Okawaru vision. It keeps armour gifts, and just changes the mechanic. I realise that armour gifts are attractive -- I also believe they can be made interesting. 14:49:08 sure 14:50:41 I think it is important to have _some_ way of ensuring getting usable gear. Divine acquirement has been nerfed enough to make sure you'll most likely get your best stuff the regular way, yet you can count on _some_ randarts for most slots. 14:50:52 but that way can be anything -- perhaps even not a god 14:51:26 dpeg: one idea that may have legs: okawaru being both the 'lone combat' god, but also a god of forging/metalworking. now that we've already breached the 'gods can make randarts', anyhow 14:51:34 and other facets of Oka are indeed abysmal -- spammable might at the foremost 14:53:27 Oka haste is not that overpowered since it costs a lot (so most of your hastes will actually come from potions/wands), but to use it reliably you have to victory dance Might 14:54:04 victory dancing something that costs piety as well is especially tedious -- since you need to manage both your xp pool and piety level 14:54:40 kilobyte: okay, let me quickly dash down my concept: (a) Okawaru gifts rarely but if so, notably stuff. (b) The gift is temporary, the player can (try to) keep it by wearing it during battle. (c) Permanentising is one boost, another one is taht Okawaru can improve gear, including randart ones (just increase enchantment). 14:54:58 (c) can be used to get that -2 CPM of r? to something sensible 14:55:57 how would b) work? Are you supposed to scum for some big fight ASAP? 14:56:01 You know that I am unhappy with all of O's aspects: Might (potion!), Haste (potion!, spell!!, wand!!!), gifts (scroll, and nothing to it) 14:56:13 kilobyte: no no, I was thinking of 3k turns for gifts or so 14:56:23 not to rush, just to do something with it 14:56:31 (think of a branch end fight) 14:57:47 I don't quite follow 14:58:01 and armour improvement would work rarely on randarts, and better if the enchantment is low, of course 14:58:04 kilobyte: with what? 15:00:28 so you'd be forced to scum for as many fights as possible, with a chance that any moment you may end up naked? 15:00:40 rewarding quantity not quality is another problem 15:00:49 kilobyte: no, of course nto 15:02:26 You'd get a piece of armour in times of calm (no tension), it is "borrowed" (for a long duration). Then, you can show that you're making good use of it by wearing it. If you fight enough to Okawaru's liking, he may gift it to you. Otherwise, you'll be told that he wants it back (so there is time for you to switch gear). 15:03:05 -!- psyshvl has quit [Quit: stuff] 15:04:26 so no nakedness but still a requirement of scumming 15:04:32 why scumming? 15:04:41 You'll be fighting anyway, what else? 15:05:34 You just have to choose which of the lended (spelling?) items you wear in order to keep it. Or perhaps nothing, if you rather want the god to improve your other gear. 15:06:25 you can't explore well, have to run to a place with lots of popcorn (current state) or few big opponents (if we use level difference) immediately 15:08:26 by "scumming" I mean artificially changing your behaviour to improve your chances -- like doing the same level over and over in Angband 15:09:09 Ogre Mage wielded weapon gug (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3120) by Curio 15:11:07 kilobyte: your definition of "scumming" is much broader than my one. What does "artifically" mean? Of course will different playing styles (and gods) lead to different behaviours: prefer open space or not, fully explore or don't etc. 15:12:02 kilobyte: in Crawl, you cannot repeat battles -- you can only kill every monster once. 15:12:24 The threshold needed to convince Okawaru would be transparent in my proposal. 15:13:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:11 away, back later 15:14:34 what I don't like is rewarding putting aside juicy places (currently Hive, Orc and pockets of rats) for when you get a good gift 15:14:40 I am sure that a system like this will create more flavour and actual choices instead of current boring onslaught of items 15:15:11 kilobyte: I am not sure that tension will be sufficiently high in Hive or Orc (let alone rats) when you need it 15:15:13 surely piety shouldn't be gained faster by killing large amounts of popcorn anyway, players already use hive to refuel on piety and silly things like that 15:15:16 interestingly, Trog leads 0.8 wins, then ash, then vehumet. 15:15:36 MarvinPA: this is a problem of Hive 15:15:39 and will be addressed 15:15:42 [this is unrelated but a big shift from 0.7] 15:15:51 casmith789: yes, interesting 15:15:56 it's more a problem of how piety gain works, orc does the same thing 15:16:07 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:12 anyway, away now 15:16:18 actual choices could be good, yeah... and I see some ways to alter your proposal -- for example, dropping the ties to time 15:16:54 piety for popcorn is an issue that can be pretty trivially changed to piety for big stuff 15:17:38 which would work well in the current system, but sadly, won't improve this particular idea -- it'd simply shift "juicy places" from Hive/Orc to branch ends 15:20:19 dpeg (if you'll read the scrollback): few "good" gifts is a big problem, too -- first jpeg then me made a number of changes in 0.6, 0.7 and 0.8 to make scroll acquirement more intelligent, but it's still stupid and gameable 15:35:55 gameable? 15:44:20 Summoning book tweaks (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3121) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 15:44:21 casmith789: if you want a single-handed weapon, you need to disable your weapon skill, do what you can to grab a shield, victory dance Shields and only once it is good enough read the scroll 15:44:37 oh 15:44:44 if you want two-handed, you can not use a shield that would make your early game easier 15:44:51 good point 15:45:08 if you want Long Blades, you can't use Short then cross-train later 15:45:32 or any acquireable weapon types, for that matter 15:45:41 is it possible to game it to not constantly give you shields from armour acquirement when you really really don't want one? 15:45:42 god of convenient acq. manipulation 15:46:03 armour acquirement seems messed up in regards to shields yeah 15:46:07 because currently it's pretty good at giving out shields to characters who hate them 15:46:17 MarvinPA: another such issue: currently it won't give you a shield if your wielded weapon is 2-handed 15:46:26 speaking of acq., is there a reason why weapon acq. gives you junk belonging to skills you don't even have 15:46:37 aha, i shall be sure to make the most of that while it lasts :P 15:47:10 also, don't try weapon acq. after a weapon skill sage card. eugh. 15:47:30 why? 15:47:42 it has no real way to know if you intend to use a shield but currently don't have one -- or have a lousy one and no good 1-hander 15:47:50 that too 15:48:25 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:22 Shorten Elf to 5 floors (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3122) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 15:49:33 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:24 Crashed game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3123) by Wravburn 16:04:47 03kilobyte * rfa4fa651d5d1 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Don't spam about tile data not being present in console builds. 16:04:58 03chriscampbell89 * r5ad76c6f7655 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Summoning book tweaks 16:26:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:42 back 16:45:55 kilobyte: still around? 16:49:23 Ok, unicode chars for username & realname enabled in Mantis.. Please beep me if this gets out of hand. 16:49:49 Nabend David :) 16:50:29 you mean, U+0007 ? 16:51:03 Hi 16:51:30 kilobyte: getting rid of the timer removes the distinction between "gifted" and "borrowed". 17:00:23 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:11 kilobyte: not replying anymore? 17:04:33 *creates account with username of that character that switches to RTL text, submits bug* 17:09:06 dpeg: the countdown could be in number of subsequent boons you receive -- if you decide to spread them instead, you won't get permanentization 17:09:32 but really, I don't see a good way to amend that approach, at least not right now 17:09:48 Dungeon serial vault: "window". (28 vaults) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3124) by co 17:09:48 kilobyte: but "not permanent" must at some point materialize, by the item going back to heaven!? 17:10:01 testing that vault right now 17:10:10 kilobyte: well, I think I can. 17:11:08 The question is what we want of Oki. I want something directly useful in battle, and keep the armour stuff. Only the latter with choices, and the former ideally broader than now. 17:11:13 another possible way: the gifts might be given to biggest monsters -- possibly queued if no eligible recipients spawn 17:11:39 kilobyte: yes, I know. I like that idea, and it will get used. 17:12:02 But I like the idea of positively fighting to keep an item even more :) And this works only with a god. 17:12:11 for the former, a possible power could be "Heroism": all your mundane skills increase by +10 17:12:17 (I want the item on monster idea for demigods.) 17:12:41 kilobyte: ah... I have this on stats (either would work, I believe). 17:12:55 The advantage of stats is taht you can see the boost right in the main screen. 17:13:28 you'd need a huge amount to get the slaying bonus you have now 17:13:32 btw, ot: regarding Elf, let us reduce branches in steps of two levels... this will be noticeably, okay? 17:14:06 kilobyte: there could be under the hood bonuses like that... but now we're getting into specifics. 17:14:07 reducing Elf is a good idea, yeah 17:14:26 I wanted to add that commit right now... except there's a nasty issue with save compat 17:14:29 kilobyte: I agree, and it was proposed by me, I think. Just saying that 8-->6 is a good step. 17:14:44 8? 17:14:47 Elf has 40% shop chance, btw. 17:14:51 sorry, 7-->5 17:15:14 so this means 2.8 shops less on average 17:15:16 Elf is a pretty boring branch, too... we might add Dwarf and make it 4. 17:16:01 the shop loss could be easily amended by having bigger shop vaults spawn in Elf 17:16:06 yes, but we could also make the branch more interesting :) 17:16:10 (which is more work, I know) 17:16:26 kilobyte: or just s/40%/50%/ 17:16:33 or that, of course 17:16:57 is it possible to add multipliers or something to the vault generation rate in certain branches? i guess there aren't many vaults set to spawn in elf cause i never see any. same in snake too i guess. 17:17:03 I was just pondering an "Elf Shopping Center" vault 17:17:07 I like the idea of mall vaults. (Thematic maps containing several shops. Would befit Elf... especially since I think loot should be skewed by branch.) 17:17:12 there's only a couple of possible elf vaults 17:17:19 Mu_: they have dummies with a huge weight 17:17:20 elf-only that is 17:17:50 dpeg: mall vaults? You mean Minetown? 17:17:53 i don't think there are even that many regular dungeon vaults tagged to spawn in elf 17:17:55 ;) 17:17:58 galehar: eeeeeek 17:18:05 * dpeg scratches himself. 17:18:12 most people probably don't think vaults 'fit' with elf/snake if they don't have, well, elves or snakes 17:18:14 so Elf shops would be mostly about scrolls, books and perhaps miscies 17:19:20 Mu_: we should go through all vaults carefully... check their tags, depths, add new functionality (no_rtele_into, COLOUR/TILES etc.) to old ones, but it is such a mass of work, I never dared to even start it. 17:20:52 I think that Elf and Vaults (and a bit Orc) are more interesting now with the higher change of shops... but I could be fooling myself into this. 17:21:19 upping the chances of the nasty elves earlier in the branch would also make it somewhat more interesting 17:21:29 i don't mind clearing elf, personally 17:22:52 MarvinPA: yes 17:23:00 MarvinPA: thumbs down on the tavern post, btw 17:23:22 how is the tavern working out? 17:23:28 which one? 17:23:34 Mu_: Very good, only that I am about to drop from there. 17:23:45 MarvinPA: the one about lichs in starting vaults. 17:23:49 for good? 17:23:58 Mu_: just as I did with SA and ##crawl :) 17:24:05 heh 17:24:05 oh yeah, that was an overreaction i think 17:24:10 Communication player-dpeg will never really work out, I think. 17:24:42 I patiently explain something, only to get exactly the same comment as before. 17:24:53 Then I become angry and arrogant. 17:25:20 for what it's worth, i think you are great in keeping your patience, dpeg 17:25:37 and just don't read such stuff in the forum :) 17:25:37 Napkin: this is a more civilised place, Napkin :) 17:26:00