00:45:27 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:50:35 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:55 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:36 !tell greensnark moin moin! the links on http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-stable/overview.html are broken: they all point to /scoring/ instead of /scoring-stable/ 01:25:37 Napkin: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 01:29:52 !tell greensnark also, links to morgues of 0.7.1 point to /stable/ instead of /0.7/ - morges from other versions might too, didn't thoroughly check 01:29:52 Napkin: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 01:51:11 !lg * 0.7 win cdo 01:51:12 greensnark: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:51:12 94. Surr the Swashbuckler (L25 KoHe), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-12-24, with 1606913 points after 60130 turns and 5:12:40. 02:26:47 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:04 hi 02:36:28 hiii 02:36:37 hi Napkin! 02:44:13 Crashing on startup in tiles during the first load-up (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3094) by nicolae 02:45:16 :( 02:46:59 Good morning! 02:47:40 Hi-No! 02:47:51 (Yes, I just made a portmanteaux of your name and "Hi".) 02:48:00 That's awesome :D 02:48:26 "Ei" pronounces exactly like "Hi" without the 'h'. 02:49:06 I'll now sing it like the 7 dwarves: "Hi-No, Hi-No, it's off to crawl we go!"? :D 02:49:57 I am speechless. 02:50:18 Excelent! 02:50:20 * due hugs. 02:50:30 hugs hugs! ^_^ 02:50:36 How do you think we should represent Liquefaction in tiles? 02:50:44 I tried doing a transparent ripple overlay but it is ugly. 02:52:11 Moin! :) 02:54:35 Hi napkin! 02:55:18 due: Perhaps felirx will code up some cool distortion graphical effect for that :) 02:55:37 (he wants to do an effects engine/stuff for spells and so on) 02:57:50 C:\Crawl\dat/des/portals/sewer.des:281: Bad item name: 'potion of levitationanyscroll' 02:58:04 who gave commit rights to this dpeg guy? ;) 02:58:58 ha! 02:59:03 yes, he really needs a lecture 02:59:23 also comitted those temple entries without an actual entry to the temple ;) 03:00:10 due: check out my idea at the bottom: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3064 03:01:57 lol @ coolio's lab rats - tey're fantastic!! 03:03:52 moin 03:04:34 Hi Zaba! 03:04:43 what's up 03:05:57 Keskitalo, regarding no_shop_gen: There was some reason why I didn't remove it immediately, but I forgot... 03:06:32 Keskitalo: Yes; we're going to have "armourd laboratory rat", etc :D 03:09:57 hehe 03:10:32 Zaba: by its description in syntax.txt it feels like it would veto shops from the **whole** level, not just the vault, but i might misinterpret that 03:11:38 Keskitalo, you are misinterpreting that, yes 03:11:45 Okay, good. :) 03:11:54 it marks the vault with MMT_NO_SHOP, which used to be checked by the old shop placement code 03:11:58 !tell MarvinPA Thanks for all the patches and bug reports! 03:11:59 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 03:13:06 Keskitalo: I'm not sure coolio realises, but he just came up with the flavour implementation list :) 03:13:15 due: Aesome :) 03:13:35 I love when e.g. new tiles inspire new features (as long as it's good of course!) 03:13:38 I need to investigate ghost structure first. 03:13:48 should rename that 03:13:53 Yes, agree. 03:13:59 "complex_monster" structure, eperhaps ): 03:14:05 yeah, something like that 03:14:15 I love the word "dynamic" =) 03:14:28 "dynamic_monster" 03:14:31 maybe silly :) 03:15:00 due: Sounds like the lab rats would be a lot like ugly things 03:15:17 which also means they should be carefully made to be not too much like them 03:15:45 where do laboratory rats come from in a bloody _dungeon_, anyway? 03:15:46 due: Also good call replacing grey rats with porcupines 03:15:56 Zaba: Why, from izard labs of course 03:15:57 or are we getting an underground research facility branch next 03:17:37 place_spec_shop checks MMT_NO_SHOP. Hmm.. So, in theory, wizmode shop placement would not work in no_shop_gen vaults. 03:17:42 that's about the only effect it has now, I think... 03:17:47 due: please ready my query :D 03:17:59 I guess it can go 03:19:01 Zaba: hehe :) 03:19:25 I love that we can now create some lovely shop vaults for random shop placement 03:19:41 I really like it how there are just now two places that call place_spec_shop, and how one of them is from wizmode code 03:19:44 (right? just have to be careful about chances)? 03:19:57 Keskitalo, umm.. not with the current implementation, but it'd be easy to make that possible 03:20:10 Keskitalo, you'd need to pick the shop vault by tag rather than name 03:20:40 just need to change how dgn.place_maps is called slightly, and the vault definition itself 03:20:56 Napkin: <3. 03:21:56 Keskitalo: Thanks. If there's one thing I hate about Lair, it's the "OMG RATS!!!". 03:22:12 yeah, they're pretty damn boring 03:22:20 due: I had an idea from the rat king discussion 03:22:25 Go on! 03:22:35 due: but not sure if it's good since it duplicates slime creatures a bit 03:22:55 the idea was that one square could contain several rats 03:23:00 well, that's about it 03:23:15 Hm. 03:23:22 Yeah, trying to avoid duplication. 03:23:24 they could all hit you, but you culd only hit one at a time 03:23:35 bah, don't 03:23:36 I was reading the user-submitted holy monster ideas... 03:23:45 that's a bit different in the sense that with slime creatures, there's still only one monster 03:24:02 A lot of them are basically "zombies, but holy" "x, but holy" or slightly different versions of what we already have. 03:24:46 Keskitalo, shop vaults was one thing I didn't really think about at all, somehow. 03:24:56 also, an actual rat king idea: rat kings contain several rats, and have hydra-like attacking. severing attacks tear rats separate from the rat king, but they're not killed, just "spawn" next to the rat king 03:25:16 Now that's interesting! 03:25:18 Zaba: Heh, well is that easy(ish) or natural to implement? 03:25:25 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25:29 Keskitalo, should be, yeah. 03:25:41 as I said, just need to change it to pick the vault by tag rather than the name 03:25:47 yeah, great! 03:26:07 I always imagined rat kings working like kraken but with rats instead of tentacles, rat tail segments instead of tentacle segments, and a big knotted mess instead of a kraken 03:26:27 maybe a bit less coordinated too 03:26:30 monky: That is cool. 03:26:31 hehe, that'd be cool but otoh i think rats are too smallfor it to work like that 03:26:38 yeah :( 03:26:39 but maybe it's better to suspend disbelief 03:26:58 because the idea of rats in the rat king being a little confused about direction is a *great* one 03:27:05 Keskitalo: Anyway: once lab rats are in, sewer lab rats! 03:27:15 (btw required reading: The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents) 03:27:20 due: Ooh, nice! 03:27:45 btw, we really need monster ideas that are hard for casters and archers 03:27:56 its much much easier to come up with cool ideas that are hard for melee characters 03:28:27 One idea for the thunder snail was that it would retaliate ranged attacks with lightning 03:28:32 I think that was from OG17? 03:28:47 Interesting... 03:28:52 due: btw 03:28:53 A bit like the whelk from Final Fantasy vI? 03:28:59 due: Yes, exactly 03:29:09 due: Also, could you give agate snails reflection? 03:29:17 Hm, should be able to! 03:29:46 due: Finally, what do you think of my "spit goo" idea for slugs and snails? I feel it's a great one, but I think I've gotten like zero dev feedback about it. 03:29:49 :/ 03:30:02 Some non-dev comments though <3 03:30:20 Where was the idea? 03:30:27 I have't read the wiki much recently, I confess. 03:30:35 In the "Tweaks to existing monsters" page 03:30:37 Ahhh 03:30:40 I'll recap here 03:30:49 Might be a good idea to air links etc with some regularity in here? 03:31:08 Because the slugs and snails are slow, they get a ranged attack that ties their prey into place, so they can catch up 03:31:23 basically, it's like a throwing net 03:31:42 I have this "held and restricted" page that lists ideas about different types of such attacks 03:31:53 so that each are a little different and more dangerous to some char builds than to others 03:32:05 oooh, nice! 03:32:15 for instance, spider webs require STR to pull away from, so that they're harder for casters (as Spider is designed to be) 03:32:42 I forget what the special thing for the goo spit was 03:32:57 probably that if you teleport/blink, you are still covered in it (unlike with nets) 03:33:39 adding different types would need a bit of code generalization, i did some research for it a while a go but it was too big a project for me ultimately, i didn't get *really* started 03:33:52 i did send jpeg some email about it so maybe my thoughts are transferable 03:34:44 !tell jpeg a **big** thank you for updating the report page!! 03:34:45 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let jpeg know. 03:34:46 Leda's Liquefaction was a ... simple spell to start with :/ 03:35:01 and now there's a lot of special cases, ? :) 03:35:04 Then I ended up writing a function to find the centre of an area etc. I did wonder how I'd got into that. 03:35:15 No, just had to write a hunk of new code to steal kilobyte's swirly pattern. 03:35:17 aha 03:35:22 hehe 03:36:19 argh, managed to close browser with 1000 tabs by accident 03:36:19 due, is there going to be a wizlab for Leda 03:37:10 Zaba: Don't know. 03:37:27 what. Where's the 'absolutely yes'? 03:37:38 Zaba: I don't currently have a good idea for one yet. 03:37:51 Zaba: Of course, whirlpools of sand everywhere done in Lua == good idea. 03:38:00 "Liquefaction marker", clearly. 03:39:01 03zaba * rd41c96c44fca 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Correct whitespace errors in sewer.des 03:39:05 03zaba * r871dc77d5f77 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Remove the no_shop_gen vault tag. 03:39:06 03zaba * r593e65b6bb6e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Correct a typo in sewer.des. 03:39:34 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:39 The cocoon new monster idea could be cool for a summoning spell 03:45:51 instead of ready monsters, it summon cocoons that hatch after a delay 03:45:59 (and I'm thinking a monster spell, primarily) 03:49:00 So long as it's not hatching into spiders I'm happy :) 03:49:10 djnrempel's idea about the weapon display, similar to spell display is GREAT 03:49:22 could hatch into wasps 03:49:23 due: No, that's be eggs :> 03:49:26 mmm wasps 03:49:42 perhaps Foxfire card could be nerfed with cocoon delay 03:49:44 Keskitalo: What do you think of the new lurking horror idea? 03:49:44 :) 03:49:55 due: Can you give the elevator pitch? 03:50:00 Elevator pitch? 03:50:54 describe it shortly 03:51:18 Sure... describe what? :)) 03:51:22 idea: some physical conjuration could be severing and cut hydra heads 03:51:30 due: lurking horror idea? 03:51:33 Sorry, sorry. 03:51:36 I meant the tile! 03:51:40 hmm. 03:51:50 oh! haven't seen it, can you link? 03:51:58 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=1352&type=bug 03:52:14 (The lurking horror is a cloud of darkness with spotty eyes... it hides around corners and then sneaks upp on your and tries to devour you.) 03:52:15 also i don't know the monster! 03:52:16 thanks 03:52:25 It's one of the abyssal horrors Mu and I have been working on 03:52:34 ah ywah, I saw that and I thought that probably wasn't what you were going for 03:52:35 The tiles are being developed cocurrently with the idea, so each can influence the other. 03:52:40 it's hella cute though 03:52:49 There's an addition o that image! 03:52:55 Loook below that one by three squares. 03:52:56 it looks playful 03:53:23 It reminds me of the demon from Sandman... can't remember which one though. 03:55:59 due: og that 03:56:00 yes azrael 03:56:17 due: the old version 03:56:20 even with the old version 03:56:32 i immediately thought that's a monster tile that'd be cool if it was animated :D 03:56:34 Azrael! 03:56:45 but not sure if its good to aniate some monsters and not others 03:57:10 That new version... 03:57:12 due: The new one is better, though less well drawn. the black should be blacker too 03:57:15 no wait.. 03:57:20 It's too wel defined 03:57:23 needs more contrast I think.. 03:57:27 Yeah! 03:57:37 http://pousse.rapiere.free.fr/tome/tiles/DO/tome-domonsterstiles.htm 03:57:46 I confess to wanting something like the "void elemental" on that page under Elementals. 03:57:52 (We can't use those, they're CC-licensed.) 04:00:42 hmm. 04:00:51 something about gnoll camp maps bothers me but I'm not sure what it is 04:03:15 !tell pointless_ If I didn't already say so, <3 <3 <3 for looking at the herd AI 04:03:15 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let pointless_ know. 04:03:40 Keskitalo: Oh, I had a brilliant idea for that the other day... 04:03:51 Zaba: generation or the vaults themselves? 04:03:53 But if pontless is doing stuff with it I will leave him to it :D 04:04:10 the vaults themselves 04:04:19 But my idea was basically: when a yak spots you, it finds all other members of its band and sets their foe as you and their behaviour as BEH_SEEK. 04:04:26 oh good - if you can give feedback I can tweak them :) 04:04:49 03j-p-e-g * r8428bacddce4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des: Add weight to the sewer vault's potion of levitation. 04:05:08 i tried to give them a distinct look by the stone wall badding around the rock walls 04:05:17 do you think it looks good? 04:05:33 due: something like that would be good 04:05:47 due: also would work excellent for wolves - the howling, you know 04:05:58 of course wolves would need to be pack animals first :) 04:06:06 Keskitalo, they're too.. static, not enough randomness. 04:06:24 I think 04:06:35 hmm.. do you think they need more variants, or randomness in the vaults themselves? 04:06:42 randomness in the vaults themselves 04:06:42 one thing is that they will be rare in normal games 04:06:54 so a player might not notice 04:07:17 but yeah, adding a little more fuzziness can't be bad 04:07:27 still, they're rather bland as they are 04:07:29 also 04:07:40 Zaba: yeah, I think that's the unfortunate case too 04:07:42 especially the smaller ones 04:08:15 Keskitalo, perhaps rock walls could be mixed with stone ones, with odds biased towards rock? 04:08:27 Zaba: Sounds good to me 04:08:37 if you'd like to tweak, and add more vaults 04:08:40 instead of the current static badding 04:08:43 and remove bad ones 04:08:50 that would be great! i have little time :) 04:08:59 Keskitalo, also, the largest one seems too large. Too much empty space and all. 04:09:05 I have to go now, too, brb 04:09:12 k, see you! 04:09:40 due: Have you looked at serial vaults? 04:10:22 Yes, they're interesting! 04:10:38 due, Zaba, greensnark, what do you think of using serial vaults for city layouts, including the idea for Vaults? 04:10:56 I don't think it would work quite as well... 04:10:57 due you worked on the Vaults thing so you can probably say something here 04:11:07 of course, serial vautls being randomly placed right now 04:11:11 I haven't looked at it clearly enough, but I thin kthe placement would be too random. 04:11:16 would create not so citylike maps 04:11:20 Yeah. 04:11:30 but!! it'd be great if you could control that by figuring out a "street layout" first 04:11:41 then using that plan to place the vaults 04:11:43 well, placing in a city-like layout wouldn't be... too difficult 04:11:47 shouldn't be too hard, yeah 04:11:48 using dgn.place_city_map instead 04:11:56 it couldn't be stateless 04:12:11 but it wouldn't be too hard to store the values (eek) statically. 04:12:16 and the rooms don't need to be handade vaults, can use algorithms to create them 04:12:20 the same ones that are in place now 04:12:29 just put them into des scripts you know 04:12:37 or would that be too cpu intensive? 04:13:09 It's only being done once so I don't think so? 04:13:39 well, it can be done a lot on the server.. but yeah, probably not too bad? 04:14:14 I don't think the load increase would be that dramatic. 04:14:18 It's done a lot, but it's not done often enough. 04:14:29 alright, good, good 04:14:40 Change level -> (x time for the builder) -> explore level -> change level -> ... 04:15:04 So, even if it was slightly more expensive, it would be relatively deferred expense unless someone decided to try doing builder statistics. :) 04:15:18 the fun thing for me to thinkg about is that.. with the city layout using serial vaults, you basically start with an empty layout before adding the vaults 04:15:24 that's just funny to me 04:15:34 Why? 04:15:42 of course, you actually need the street plan, but you don't actually place any walls or so 04:16:01 due: I can't explain ... 04:16:13 it just feels so simple that it's funny 04:16:30 also i haven't slept properly for a couple of weeks =) 04:16:42 I see :) 04:16:48 New parent syndrome, etc? 04:17:09 yeah 04:17:23 I finished shedu :) 04:17:30 And ophan, actually... 04:17:47 \o/ 04:18:04 due: What did you think of my "lone shedu" unique idea? =) 04:18:11 if you looked at that patch item link 04:18:18 i mean we got two shedu tiles 04:18:25 could use the other for a new unique 04:18:39 "lone shedu" in itself is already a great backstory 04:19:12 anyawy, i need to go now.. new parent thing! cheers! 04:19:28 @??shedu 04:19:28 shedu (16H) | Speed: 19 | HD: 13 | Health: 91-130 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 23 | Flags: 08holy, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison | XP: 3106 | Sp: resurrection, heal other. 04:19:43 @??ophan 04:19:45 ophan (05G) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 74-117 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx | XP: 1852 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), holy flames. 04:20:05 are the stats ok as well? 04:20:21 I think so. 04:20:29 (well, hard to tell that without knowing their target place) 04:20:35 Yeah. 04:20:41 However, they're fully implemented now. 04:20:48 Need to nuke the unfinished flag for opahn. 04:21:07 Will work on phoenixes next... not quite sure how to do that outside of creating a new marker which is painful but I suppose not too painful. 04:21:08 I added it since they 1. spawned in zotdef, 2. had buggy corpses. 04:21:22 Ophan? 04:21:32 Huh. 04:21:35 yeah, but it seems to be an easy fix 04:21:37 I didn't test corpses, I confess. 04:24:56 Bah, I want to fix up trees in swamp with tiles but I'm keeping in mind what Enne said... okay, time for some serious hacking! 04:27:10 * due touches enum.h :( 04:43:22 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:26 due: do you really lack a bigger machine somewhere? 04:45:56 kilobyte: Actually, yeah. but also lack of committment. 04:46:32 kilobyte: I don't have any other *nix machines at home. 04:46:35 distcc can be bad if your dev machine has a slow link -- preprocessed sources are many megabytes big, so pushing them to and fro would take longer than the actual compilation 04:46:48 Yeah. 04:46:56 If I had some other *nix machines to work with, I'd switch. 04:47:05 The other option is to push my changes to my work machine and then compile and test there. 04:47:24 that's what I do 04:47:31 I don't think I can distcc with my two work machines either though, one of them is 64bit and the other is 32bit. 04:47:34 But otherwise that woul dbe nice. 04:47:54 everything except tiles, which are unusable over a worse-than-lan connection 04:48:14 Yeah. 04:48:19 I'm hacking tiles at the mintue anyway. :0 04:48:41 my dev machine is 64 bit and the ancient home desktop which just let out the smoke was 32 bit 04:49:18 a proper solution would be cross compiling, but that would require a tiny bit of reading, so I just use a 32 bit chroot 04:51:54 Can someone sanity-check: http://sprunge.us/ZIJV 04:51:59 I'm not sure the C++ is right. 04:52:10 that's unhelpful. 04:52:27 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 04:52:38 http://pastebin.ca/2034098 04:52:57 diff was a bit confusing I think. 04:53:12 Specifically directed at kilobyte: is that the proper way to initialise yourself from another instance of yourself? 04:53:29 "yourself" being...? 04:53:37 say 04:53:45 packed_cell newcell = packed_cell(&old_cell)? 04:55:00 for structs, plain assigment should copy all (most?) fields, and if you do that in such a function, you may do some additional processing as well 04:55:19 Well, I'm just copying over the relevant stuff. 04:55:35 explicitely copying all fields by hand should work, too 04:55:42 Yeah. 04:55:53 The other stuff is all explicitly handled by the initialisation code elsewhere. 04:56:59 why do you use an enum for a single value? Isn't a #define or a const simpler? 05:09:50 galehar: Existing code. 05:11:32 galehar: It works, so I'm not touching that in case I break it :) 05:15:03 Title graphic & logo (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3095) by Denzi 05:15:19 ! :D 05:16:25 oh aweeesome. 05:16:30 Denzi is astonishing. 05:17:48 -!- Adeon is now known as MaryPoppins 05:18:06 MaryPoppins: I loved you in that movie! 05:18:50 I'm disturbed 05:20:59 ooh, it's not broken yet! yay! 05:23:41 Hm, trying to watch movie and compile at the same time is unrecommended behaviour. 05:32:52 re 05:32:57 hi Zaba! 05:37:29 using subvaults for Vault layouts is possible 05:37:54 or rather, serial vaults 05:38:12 dgn.place_map can take the desired vault coordinates, so you could calculate the positions of the rooms and place them in lua 05:38:54 of course, the actual calculation might be pretty involved, but nothing that is impossible 05:39:43 "found two bug-filled silvery potions" 05:40:10 oooh, how exciting! It is done! 05:40:24 kilobyte: That's odd. 05:40:39 dear tiles: please don't crash, love, jude. 05:41:45 does hard-locking the host machine from inside a VM count as crash? 05:42:32 Well, it crasshed but becauseof something else. 05:43:13 Weird visual distortions. 05:44:21 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:45 O...kay. That's a bit odd. Why does it do that. 05:45:24 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:05 That solves Issue #1. 05:46:08 Issue #2 is... odder still. 05:46:19 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:36 hi ploog 05:47:30 moin dpeg 05:48:24 Hi 05:48:34 Zaba: awesome stuff on the shop generation 05:48:46 one question: can shops still be generated in Vaults:8? 05:48:52 no 05:49:01 Do we want shops there? 05:49:06 no idea :P 05:49:22 but whoever designs (sub)vaults for vault:8 probably doesn't -expect- them there 05:49:31 probably okay to have no shops in V:8 05:49:39 Zaba: would it be possible to have a shoppy subvault? 05:49:44 is that just a coincidence, or do Vaults:8 produce way more shops than usually? 05:49:45 of course 05:49:58 kilobyte: coincidence 05:50:03 I've only changed generation of random shops 05:50:03 I can't remember a game without any, at least 05:50:05 I didn't notice this in my games 05:50:07 vaults can place shops all the hell they want 05:50:20 I mean, not more but there seems to be always some 05:50:35 kilobyte: I had plenty of shopless Vault ends. 05:50:42 there certainly aren't always shops on v:8 05:50:44 actually so many that the occasional shop sticks out 05:50:45 right, a stroke of luck then 05:51:06 If I get the time, I can make a shop subvault. Would be fun if most of the loot is in shops. 05:51:20 it does feel to me like there are more random shops there than normal, but that probably isn't actually true 05:52:32 dpeg, an interesting possibility that Keskitalo has noticed but I haven't, is creating shop vaults 05:52:46 yeah, would be cool 05:52:48 could be employed for some additional flavour 05:52:54 Zaba: for ordinary game? Sure! 05:53:08 instead of shops randomly strewn all around the levels, they could form a mall 05:53:20 yes 05:53:26 kilobyte, well.. each vault would need to contain a single shop, though 05:53:35 why? 05:53:42 you mean for serial shops vaults? 05:53:45 yes 05:53:49 or just flavour stuff around the shop glyph? 05:54:07 btw, TOME has taken off in the poll 05:54:15 but I doubt they have 400 dedicated players :) 05:54:17 any vault that would be a substitude for the 'shop' vault in dat/des/builder/shops.des would need to contain only one shop 05:54:27 Zaba: ah, I see 05:55:00 Zaba: I want to make some. Do I just name them "shop"??? 05:55:04 no 05:55:43 we need a tag? 05:55:52