00:52:38 due: Are you committing monsters without tiles again! 00:52:49 We need a precommit hook to deny that sort of nonsense. 01:01:49 And also righteously zot the anti-tiles committer 01:03:05 default placeholder tiles should be monster's name written in a tiny font rather that a faceless question sign 01:03:47 no, we need more antimatter tiles 01:05:14 the default monster tile should be sigmund 01:30:43 enne: I tried very hard to find a tile for it! 01:38:49 The best crab tile I could find was a bit "meh". 01:39:06 From Slash'EM. 01:39:07 find? 01:39:16 should have drawn claws on a t 01:39:18 monky: I am not an artiste :( 01:39:29 like st_ suggested 01:54:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:59:48 due: Just drop Poor Yurik an email :) 01:59:51 Or purge 02:00:12 greensnark: I am a) too lazy, b) too scared to ask people for things. 02:00:32 Default placeholder tile should be the rendered glyph that the tty version would use 02:00:43 SDL can do text, no? 02:00:51 greensnark: enne is over there! --> 02:00:56 Draw the letter, maybe add a drop shadow and a top hat and call it a day 02:00:58 Or rather, enne was up there --^ 02:01:56 !lg * sprint won map=~fedhas 02:01:56 1. hyperbolic the Earth Mage (L12 DEEE), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb on 2010-12-26, with 278148 points after 7311 turns and 0:27:28. 02:02:03 The usual suspects :) 02:02:32 dirty cheating with lrd 02:02:40 Hehe 02:03:27 greensnark: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Tileset_repository 02:05:38 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:39 We really need a monster that reuses jelly baby orb guardians. 02:41:35 moin 02:43:53 enne, we need a commit hook that completely prevents adding new monsters, because that is nonsense :P 02:45:08 tough, new monsters are coming! 02:51:39 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:07 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:06 enne: I'm adding a tile for one of the new monsters! ;) 03:02:25 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:08 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:30 03due * r4897f2c10a65 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Use Curio's bog mummy (with moss) tile! 03:05:50 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:23 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:26 -!- Lollipop has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:04 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:48:25 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:39 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 04:13:41 hey greensnark you might want to kill joy1999's cao session 04:13:55 You want me to be a killjoy? 04:14:07 Oh, a mummy farmer 04:14:12 I thought it might be eating cpu or something 04:14:17 It probably is 04:14:24 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:52 Yeah, I see it 04:15:04 It's probably also filling up disk unnecessarily fast. 04:15:43 I've kicked them 04:16:36 !gamesby joy1999 04:16:36 joy1999 has played 211 games, between 20100723 and 20101224, won 2 (0.9%), high score 9816757, total score 14238302, total turns 1680559, total time 147:46:11. 04:16:54 !lg joy1999 s=crace x=avg(turn) 04:16:54 211 games for joy1999: 53x Mountain Dwarf [546.74], 39x Spriggan [7282.31], 29x Mummy [4639.79], 17x Demonspawn [2541.88], 15x Minotaur [10216.13], 9x Naga [20852.22], 7x Ogre [4325.29], 7x Merfolk [45217], 6x Human [791.17], 6x Deep Dwarf [24281.5], 5x Kenku [3853], 4x Troll [3527.25], 4x Vampire [16907], 2x Sludge Elf [1778], 2x Hill Orc [16437], 2x Deep Elf [66924.5], 2x High Elf [30015], 1x Dr... 04:17:12 !lm joy1999 04:17:12 814. [2010-12-24] joy1999 the Cutter (L3 VpWr) entered an Ossuary on turn 2974. (D:5) 04:19:11 !whereis joy1999 04:19:11 joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr) is currently in Ossuary after 165627822 turns. 04:19:46 !tell dpeg < Henzell> joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr) is currently in Ossuary after 165627822 turns. <--- someone really likes Ossuaries 04:19:46 greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 04:24:13 how nice 04:30:33 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:08 what exactly is he waiting for? 04:58:24 there are no spawns in portal vaults, right? 04:58:43 I think he wants to end-of-world the character 04:58:53 He's active right now 05:01:27 I asked him what he's doing and that appears to have paralysed him :P 05:01:45 We'll just call this spell "Greensnark's Greater Paralysis" 05:02:10 maybe he just left the commands to repeat forever and is taking a nice break 05:02:25 Seems unlikely, since he hit the key to read his messages 05:02:30 Ahh 05:02:43 My theory is correct 05:02:51 What is the end-of-world turn count 05:02:55 Wasn't it some 800M 05:03:36 Maybe we should reduce it to something like 2M so weird people who want to see the world end can get to it faster 05:04:24 is it spectacular 05:04:46 Oh, 200M turns is not too far away 05:05:30 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:33 there's no cap on turns (except that the won't keep increasing above INT32_MAX), but indeed, 2G aut = 200M turns 05:06:42 I'll let this guy run with it and set his bizarre record, but any imitators are going to get smacked righteously 05:09:37 !lg * max=dur 05:09:37 878102. Eronarn the Grave Robber (L1 GhNe), quit the game on D:1 on 2008-03-08, with 6 points after 0 turns and 327:09:44. 05:09:39 !lg * max=turns 05:09:39 878102. Stabwound the Farming Skullcrusher (L27 MuSu), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb and 111 runes on 2008-03-09, with 9425283 points after 92568259 turns and 128:15:16. 05:09:52 somehow make the max turncount 2,000,001 next version just to screw with him 05:10:21 err 200 million and 1 even :p 05:11:15 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:27 hah ha 05:11:38 no, he somehow survived that snake 05:12:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:39 how large is his ttyrec 05:12:54 ... and done 05:13:03 rest in peace joy 1999 05:13:07 !lg * max=turns 05:13:08 878103. joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr), slain by a giant ant on D:5 on 2010-12-26, with 154 points after 167116068 turns and 0:22:14. 05:13:12 sad 05:13:18 nice time 05:13:30 duration 05:13:47 Oh crap, he died? If he's going to try again I'm going to have to take steps 05:14:11 why didnt he do it in temple 05:14:12 How come he left the Ossuary :P 05:14:25 Hi 05:14:25 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:14:32 I'm not convinced he knows about the limit 05:14:33 he jittered a bit and the mummies started following him 05:14:39 !messages 05:14:40 (1/1) greensnark said (54m 54s ago): < Henzell> joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr) is currently in Ossuary after 165627822 turns. <--- someone really likes Ossuaries 05:14:44 syllogism: I asked him and he said he was waiting for end-of-world 05:14:47 oh 05:14:57 An ossuary is a good place to be for a vampire. 05:16:10 we may add sleep()s after 1B of time 05:16:12 !lg joy1999 x=dur 05:16:12 212. [dur=0:22:14 [1334]] joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr), slain by a giant ant on D:5 on 2010-12-26, with 154 points after 167116068 turns and 0:22:14. 05:17:07 !lg joy1999 x=start 05:17:07 212. [start=2010-12-24 [20101124122048S]] joy1999 the Farming Cutter (L3 VpWr), slain by a giant ant on D:5 on 2010-12-26, with 154 points after 167116068 turns and 0:22:14. 05:17:34 just 22 minutes? 05:17:51 That shows you just how much quality Crawl play you can cram into 22 minutes 05:18:01 167M millions of absorbing tactical gameplay 05:18:10 according to kilobytes commit it should take 24 hours :P 05:18:25 He probably tried it on a Sprint map :P 05:18:40 interesting... when I added the time cap, it took me 12 hours at 100% CPU time on a good machine to get to 1B. The cap was then doubled and I didn't test it again. 05:18:56 kilobyte: Wasn't that before the Sprint optimizations for Sprint III 05:19:16 greensnark: yeah... which means the optimizations work 05:19:24 Did you use a monster-free level or did you just jump into solid rock and wait 05:19:33 temple 05:19:47 Did we optimise non-monster game loop stuff? 05:19:59 Or did you test on a PII or something 05:21:32 we (at least I) optimized whatever showed up high on gprof and was relatively easily fixable 05:22:59 it indeed was mostly monster stuff, but not exclusively 05:35:09 hrm. 05:35:10 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:35:53 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:53 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Home of the Vi-Kings! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 05:41:03 !won spring 05:41:03 No games for spring. 05:42:30 just one more try 05:44:25 I cannot get Lugonu to max piety in Spring :( 05:46:55 spring? 05:47:38 latest sprint map is affectionally called Spring 05:47:46 by Finns and wanna-be Finns like me 05:48:50 didn't know there was a new one 05:49:19 dpeg: elliptic has already won 05:49:30 !won * sprint map=~fedhas 05:49:30 * (map=~fedhas) has won once in 568 games (0.18%): 1xDEEE 05:50:08 argh 05:50:10 I suck :( 05:50:31 I believe it is possible to get that dagger of distortion. 05:51:38 hm 05:51:49 greensnark, _fixup_stone_stairs seems to like to mess with vault stairs for no good reason 05:52:28 on a perfectly connected single-zone D:1, it still manages to find a reason to fail to preserve vault stairs, which of course affects the entry vault 05:53:09 the level has stairs before the vault is placed, yes, but why it fails to remove just the non-vault stairs is what escapes me 05:54:53 Have you checked what the code is trying to do 05:55:04 Obviously it must be buggy :) 05:55:19 I don't really understand the first half of _fixup_stone_stairs 05:55:35 I mean, the part before 'if that doesn't work' 05:55:43 which is ironic 05:56:07 but the behaviour with staircases that I am observing is caused by the 'remove random stairs' code, I think. 06:09:11 Players are discussing two-headed, two-godded ogres on the forum :O 06:09:34 jpeg says I should just let them vent them over there. 06:10:30 !seen galehar 06:10:31 I last saw galehar at Sun Dec 26 00:17:11 2010 UTC (11h 53m 20s ago) quitting with message Quit: disconnect. 06:13:51 from crawl I'd expect more than nethack with two-headed monsters. I want to be able to wear TWO amulets and TWO helmets! 06:15:39 bhaak: asking for worship of two gods goes in that direction :) But it will never come. 06:15:58 why two gods? 06:16:20 because one head might follow another religion as the other one? 06:16:48 yes 06:17:05 this is a zombie proposal, it just won't stay dead 06:17:07 the Sif head casts buff spells on the Trog one, duh 06:17:22 :) 06:18:09 sounds like a good thing to put on the list of things that will never be done (but are often requested) 06:18:11 as a player I see more problems with two beings in the same body following two religions than benefits 06:19:08 monky: yes, absolutely 06:21:16 done 06:21:21 but just implementing it to show the players that it's a bad idea, isn't wort the trouble :) 06:21:47 Verwarnung! 06:22:25 Verwanrung? for me or the users in the forum? 06:23:02 to you, for advertising Nethack-style development methods in the Crawl dev channel 06:24:04 -!- monky has quit [Quit: no] 06:24:30 lol, I wasn't aware that this would be Nethack-style development. The devteam always implemented such things thinking it was a good idea :-) 06:24:54 haha 06:25:08 s/good/cool/ 06:30:25 -!- Noeda is now known as Adeon 06:30:32 is broken 06:30:39 why/how? 06:30:47 too powerful 06:31:22 Tornado works through metal walls (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3048) by nubinia 06:31:22 Nemelex won't accept sacrifices when I press p (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3047) by nubinia 06:32:04 I had tornado at L19 (something you'd assume you can only do with vehumet as a DE) and not only that 13 levels of fighting, haste at excellent and fire and conj around 15 each 06:33:42 casmith789: this is from the xp boost? That will go. 06:34:09 oh, good 06:34:15 I think I was at 1.4* exp 06:34:50 yes, it is when running around fully cursed 06:36:00 yeah, I was. No need to change equipment really :) 06:36:34 casmith789: well, only if you have good stuff :) 06:37:45 it was all plain pretty much. But I lucked out with an amulet of conservation and ring of magic resistance 06:38:26 can I convince anyone to have another look at issue 3019: casting tornado cancels kenkus perma flight..It's a frustrating bug cause it splats your high-lvl keku without a warning if it happens over lava etc 06:39:09 and it's rather easy to fix 07:03:19 will you ever support FullHD? 07:19:37 Full hard drives? 07:21:42 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:41:47 Toad and Hound zombies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3049) by Curio 07:48:15 Btw, some Che expert should take a look at valrus' step-from-time patch and make a decision 07:49:20 Who's the current point person for Che 07:53:30 -!- Lollipop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:13 chei is being developed? 08:01:04 Not that I know, but who's the devteam owner of Che 08:01:17 If we don't have a devteam owner for Che, someone needs to volunteer, or we could axe Che :P 08:01:54 In general I don't think major new features should be accepted unless there's one or more people on the core team who are willing to own the feature's maintenance 08:02:38 So whoever is the Che person should totally review valrus' Che patch on Mantis and give a yes/no/this-needs-to-change answer 08:16:02 Lollipop: your "fix" would do nothing to other possible ways to trigger the bug, and cause an unexplained inconsistency for boots of lev and such 08:16:36 ATTR_LEV_UNCANCELLABLE should be set whenever the levitation is supposed to be uncancellable, no matter if you have a source of permanent flight 08:17:02 this includes potions, miscasts, etc 08:17:38 the bug is real though, and you're right that it may cause splats in some cases 08:47:08 Crash on auto-explore (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3050) by mixam85 08:56:28 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:00 03kilobyte * r93ca19a0b993 10/crawl-ref/source/ (externs.h tag-version.h tags.cc): Add a field to clouds to store those guilty. 08:57:02 03kilobyte * rc353d41a74be 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc env.h externs.h mon-util.cc mon-util.h monster.cc): Let "anon friendly monster" mindices provide a valid monster/actor. 08:57:03 03kilobyte * r0da678df9731 10/crawl-ref/source/ (29 files): Store the blame when clouds are placed. 08:57:06 03kilobyte * rbe3ce85ef7c0 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-mon.cc: Include monster id in wizard xD 08:57:08 03kilobyte * r2367b2b88949 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cloud.cc mon-util.cc mon-util.h): Pass the blame data when a cloud causes hp damage. 08:57:19 03kilobyte * ref8109b298c7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (defines.h effects.cc spl-book.cc spl-miscast.cc): Remove unused MISC_UNKNOWN_MISCAST, rename MISC_KNOWN_MISCAST. 09:08:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:10 crap, that arm crash happens on Debian as well 09:21:12 0.7, I had my arm toolchain on the machine whose motherboard just went in smoke, building 0.8 natively which will take an hour... 09:21:20 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:01 -!- Icelos has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:00 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:42 -!- res has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:53 -!- res has left ##crawl-dev 11:20:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:22:56 [Zot Defence] traps set under self are invisible (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3051) by ekolis 11:27:58 [Zot Defence] can harm self with traps (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3052) by ekolis 11:43:03 evaporating an invisible horror crashes the game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3053) by wesleyshaver 12:06:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:10 Shedu new tile candidate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3054) by Curio 12:28:17 cloud killer ASSERT when attempting to load an older save file (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3055) by jpeg 13:11:29 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:16:08 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:27 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:03 holy crap... half a year ago, compiling on n900 took 45 minutes (console debug)... now it's 105 min 14:36:33 75 min CPU time, the rest swapping 14:37:41 but even excluding I/O, the actual compilation time is terrible 14:40:05 takes about 90 seconds here with -j4 14:51:04 03j-p-e-g * r58057f02132a 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Add Denzi's awesome felid tiles. Miaow! 15:03:25 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:31 cheers, anyone in? 15:05:58 I thought nokia provides that scratchbox thing so you can cross compile everything on your computer 15:07:22 I used a debian chroot on my n900 to compile some simple stuff though 15:07:34 Adeon: yeah... it's i386 only so on a modern machine you need a chroot, and some odd kernel settings (sysctlable, fortunately) as they use a truly ancient version of scratchbox 15:08:38 I used it on my home desktop (an old i386 machine) which ran out of smoke a few days ago... but that machine was so slow it was hardly a speedup compared to native compilation :p 15:09:07 LAYER_TILE_CONTROL assertion at game end (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3056) by jpeg 15:09:30 I should try compiling crawl on my wii. I think it has about the same raw processor power. but it has much less memory 15:09:40 powerpc! 15:09:42 somehow, there are some regressions. 0.7 works save for that autoexplore crash, 0.8 somehow even loses display. 15:10:30 yay endianness... blue_anna was the last person who tried compiling Crawl on powerpc, more testing is always good 15:19:37 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:56 hi 15:24:16 Hi! 15:25:57 03kilobyte * r645151cb5fe6 10/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt: Don't claim libz-dev is needed only for tiles. 15:25:58 03kilobyte * rcfd4ff5b06ab 10/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt: Update INSTALL.txt a bit. 15:26:00 03kilobyte * rd88f5d8d82a4 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/holy/shedu.png: Replace the shedu tile with Curio's version. 15:30:36 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:07 -!- jpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:17 hi 15:33:34 I appear to have mislaid my password... 15:34:08 leaked or forgotten? 15:34:36 forgotten 15:34:45 Registered : Jan 31 05:11:55 2005 15:35:12 I mean on freenode, and I only registered a few days ago 15:35:29 that is freenode :< 15:35:37 galehar: got a moment? 15:36:08 Last seen : Jul 23 01:55:17 2010 15:36:37 did you register "jpeg" or something else? 15:36:48 that unfortunately doesn't look like your account :/ 15:36:58 jpeg 15:37:02 unless you were on irc 5 years ago 15:37:31 I doubt it 15:38:21 no reaction on Ash nor DG 15:38:27 <-- is getting impatient :) 15:38:41 are you expecting anything specific? 15:38:51 I mean writing a patch might take a few days ;) 15:39:07 * jpeg is also looking for galehar 15:43:29 I was wondering if we could get in 'D'=drop last right away :) 15:45:35 if so, I wouldn't have to write a treatise on Mantis :( 15:45:37 erm, :) 15:46:03 "we" could, but I'm not volunteering 15:46:21 This is why I am looking for galehar. He is ... more constructive :P 15:46:48 hey, I'm working on improving the Tiles version - yet again 15:47:20 ... which is why *I* am looking for galehar 15:47:22 :) 15:48:14 much sought-after, that guy 15:48:51 say, if I were to add a tile tab for common commands, which ones should it include? 15:49:20 no maximize button (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3057) by KiloByte 15:49:38 I'm thinking the meta commands (save, command help, message log) but also resting, autoexplore, ... 15:50:31 03kilobyte * r9b29d9108477 10/crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc: Don't use KILL_NONE for unknown killers. 15:53:51 jpeg: read online message (_ in console) 15:54:16 jpeg: write note 15:54:57 since there's no online tiles, there's no need for online messaging :( 15:55:22 note writing/reading is a good idea, could be doable from the same tile even 15:57:28 hey 15:57:50 sorry, I was polishing my proposal to change the armour penalty on spellcasting 15:58:28 D for drop last pickedup is on my todo list 15:58:42 very laudable! in that case, you're forgiven :) 15:59:12 I'll look into it soon 15:59:28 jpeg: what did you want to ask? 16:00:29 I'm working on adding a command tab row 16:00:51 that should probably be added to the detached tabs, too 16:01:03 can I leave doing that to you? 16:01:20 detaching it? yes 16:01:36 (or maybe it's really easy, I've only just started) 16:01:40 thanks! :) 16:01:43 I'll make a more flexible implementation 16:02:15 also, since you're apparently into Tiles at least some of the time, do *you* have any further suggestions for must-have commands for this tab 16:03:13 galehar: thanks for doing that. I was thinking about the same. 16:03:58 well, actually, I'm thinking that meta gaming commands like save, opening message log, help don't really need to be detached 16:04:18 that's where I'm getting stuck too 16:04:21 I am not sure if those commands need to be visible all the time. 16:04:27 Actually, I'd hide them. 16:04:31 resting and autoexplore could, but there's already mouse shortcuts for that 16:04:49 I just reread the Usability Project page on the wiki 16:04:56 yes, I saw 16:05:05 and one of the major points was that players had no idea you could click for resting and exploring 16:05:35 when I'm thinking about that, I have to say that I'm really thinking about what will be needed for a touchscreen interface 16:05:39 so buttons were requested for doing that 16:06:25 all those information-screens (%, ^, @) 16:06:43 maybe we need 2 tabs. One fore meta gaming commands (save, logs, help,...) that will never be detached 16:07:01 Sorry for the stupid question... what does "detached" mean here? 16:07:25 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/High-res-layout.png 16:07:37 dpeg: before galehar's change you had to switch between different tabs by clicking on these icons on the left 16:08:00 dpeg: switching between inventory, spells, monsters etc. can be a real hassle 16:08:22 and another tab with common commands and access to status screens which will be detached 16:08:32 unfortunately, all I get is an extra line for spells or monsters, but even that's a huge improvement 16:08:37 <3 galehar 16:09:21 jpeg: would you trade the minimap for the tabs? 16:09:31 nope 16:09:45 but that's another thing I've been thinking about 16:10:03 we might want to add a priority option for Tiles display 16:10:09 and if X mode make the map full screen and you could zoom with the mouse wheel? 16:10:38 something like: minimap, inventory, commands, spells, monsters, ... 16:11:00 galehar: no, and I suspect a lot of players wouldn't 16:11:14 ok 16:11:19 galehar: the survey showed that what Tiles players missed most in online play was the minimap 16:12:05 galehar: but making that decision customizable via a single option would be great 16:12:25 I had another idea for the spell tab: changing the background colour when the spell is active. 16:12:57 the wiki has very interesting ideas about ashenzari 16:13:00 for the record, I'm against allowing players to change the order things are getting displayed, as in minimap on the bottom or anything like that 16:13:30 galehar: we have a lot of background colours available, so that's a really neat idea 16:13:43 yes, a single option to choose the priority of the stat area would be great. 16:14:51 dpeg? have you fainted? 16:16:33 now if only I could remember where Denzi's spell background tiles are stored... 16:17:31 oh, it's already in the repository, though not "unused" - surprise! 16:18:19 galehar: feel free to pick some colours from the spells/disciplines directory for active spells 16:19:00 galehar: using them for actually displaying the disciplines wouldn't work for multi-school spells anyway 16:19:30 ok. I thought about using ColouredTileBuffer, but if there's already colored tile backrounds, that should be easier. 16:19:54 galehar: we could also use these for showing disabled or god-approved ones! 16:20:05 * jpeg is getting excited 16:20:26 For choosing the colour, I was thinking of using the same one as for status lights 16:20:39 jpeg: good point 16:22:08 galehar: that might work, a colour -> tile map should be easy 16:23:53 how can I upload a file on the wiki? 16:24:03 I made a spreadsheet for the armoured spellcasting 16:24:32 Wand of Paralysis auto-IDs when used on sleeping monster (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3058) by SlyShy 16:26:37 sorry, I've never been able to work that out myself 16:29:33 insane db rebuild times due to sqlite fsyncing too often (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3059) by KiloByte 16:39:08 to upload file on the wiki, just use the upload image button. 16:41:17 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:defense#spellcasting 16:43:18 upload where? 16:43:59 on the wiki 16:45:08 I don't see any upload button :| 16:46:35 when you're editing a page, there's an "Add image" button 16:46:44 5th from the right 16:46:57 you can actually use it to upload other type of files 16:48:04 aaaah! I never saw that before 16:48:30 only use the signature button anyway 16:48:31 I just rtfm ;) 16:49:16 might be worth adding to the wiki doc at dcss:start 16:49:35 -!- herself is now known as herhax 16:49:45 -!- herhax is now known as herself 16:49:54 morning 16:50:00 due! 16:50:05 hi jpeg! 16:50:24 I keep losing my plusses due to forgetting my freenode password 16:50:42 :( 16:50:51 I've heard you've been busy with the feature mimics, thanks for that 16:51:38 due: well, to be exact I think I remember it but there are two symbols I'm not entirely sure of, so I'm experimenting with a new version everytime I try to log on again 16:51:46 Hopefully the work I did in ASCII, I'll translate. 16:51:58 *will translate. 16:52:43 Ooh, someone's submitted Shedu tiles! 16:53:47 yeah... the one which I drew was worse than if it was done by a 3 years old 16:53:59 I don't draw tiles. :) 16:54:12 The best I can do is draw a border and add some lightning :) 16:54:25 Oh, that looks very good. 16:54:36 This curio guy works fast! 16:54:59 kilobyte: Did you put them in CREDITS? I had visitors last night and didn't get a chance to. 16:55:40 jpeg, enne: Do we need to investigate a better method of displaying haloes in tile? 16:55:52 we need moar lightning! :) 16:56:22 due: a better tile, yes, but what do you mean by method? 16:56:47 due: some kind of overlay? 16:56:47 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4104-g9b29d91 (31.22) 16:56:48 Displaying the the halo on all tiles, not just those with monsters in them? 16:57:20 due: depends. does the halo affect anything that's not a monster? 16:57:28 due: well, the radius, I guess... 16:58:25 due: another overlay would work, but if we pile a lot of them on top of each other things could get confusing 16:58:29 Well, in ASCII the tile recolours features. 16:58:33 Yeah. 16:59:13 we'd have to see how the halo and silenced overlays interact - those two are most likely to pop up together 16:59:24 it does have an effect: it tells you there's no invisible monster there 16:59:50 I haven't seen how silenced works in tiles, to be honest. Will need to investigate. 17:00:08 that's the same as saying, "there are no invisible monsters in the radius" 17:00:14 back 17:00:21 ... which is one of the reasons knowing the radius would be good 17:00:27 Johann has stomach ache. 17:00:34 dpeg: :( 17:00:50 ... the other being that seeing a monster is just outside the halo range can influence tactics 17:01:01 dpeg: 17:01:09 dpeg: Still? :( 17:01:22 jpeg: Likewise you can also see the halo coming. 17:01:29 dpeg: I thought he was better today 17:01:48 casmith789: still around? 17:01:52 yes 17:01:55 due: I'm still not used to thinking of halos in terms of monsters 17:01:59 due: good point! 17:02:19 it's important to know pesky holies are coming 17:02:19 due: I'm not particularly happy with the silenced overlay 17:02:47 due: it just doesn't ring "silence" to me 17:02:58 03kilobyte * ra68d6d503630 10/crawl-ref/source/sqldbm.cc: Fix opening a db with no filename returning success. 17:03:20 Oh, hm. 17:03:39 The lilac/black tile? 17:03:47 due: yes 17:04:38 jpeg: yes, I've been reading Blaubär to him, for forty minutes. He forgot the pain. 17:04:49 casmith789: what ideas do you mean? 17:04:52 due: the current halo tile is much too invasive to use as a generic overlay 17:05:08 * due nod. 17:05:16 dpeg: that worked for me once when I had an extreme case of tooth ache 17:05:23 just in general, very interesting page 17:05:37 casmith789: I am quite familiar with the page :) 17:06:19 my point of view with the DEFE I just won was that ashenzari reskilling let me play a DE with decent hp by just knocking back a few levels of fire/conj into fighting 17:06:42 casmith789: you could've done the same by ordinary skilling. 17:06:50 yup, would have been really boring 17:07:01 plus there's no way to train fighting without a weapon skill really 17:07:08 I believe that Ash will highlight that certain skill levels are unattractive, and we'll have to take care of that (the skills, not the reskilling). 17:08:15 casmith789: it is commong for players to try to get fighting up on pure casters by doing all non-urgent fights in melee. I usually died in the attempt, however. 17:08:30 yes 17:08:59 casmith789: do you want to support some particular idea for Ash? 17:09:04 Now is some time to talk about it. 17:09:47 in my case I didn't need to, I sticky flamed any enemy I could down to lair 8, reskilled once into fighting from conj and once from fire and had 13 fighting by lair 8. It seemed quite powerful. Fighting and spellcasting train slower than weapon skills with the same apt and I am wondering if this is related to the strength of reskilling into them 17:10:03 ... I forgot to push this, duh. 17:10:38 03due * r46161bd73e4e 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Different sky beast tile: quetzalcoatl-like monster. 17:11:06 casmith789: what do you think that defe would have been like without the exp boost? 17:11:15 well I've played them before 17:11:22 very strong but very fragile 17:11:37 This reminds me... Sticky Flame should become a touch spell. 17:11:50 a couple of levels of exp from conj/fire wouldn't make much difference 17:11:53 and the xp boost will go, I hope 17:11:53 dpeg: Oh, thanks for reminding me. I very definitely agree. 17:12:23 even without the xp boost I think that reskilling into fighting is very powerful 17:12:35 -!- Icelos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:37 I shall try this drae with ash as well 17:12:54 kilobyte, galehar, jpeg, Zaba, Mu_, enne, felirx, Keskitalo, Cryp71c? 17:13:12 casmith789: you have to donate something... 17:13:12 dpeg: here! 17:13:19 hello 17:13:22 donate something? 17:13:25 Agree to make SF a touch spell? 17:13:28 crawl isn't free anymore? 17:13:34 casmith789: donate some xp for Fighting. 17:13:39 oh yes 17:13:41 :) 17:13:58 but getting firestorm at xl20 instead of xl19 is a price worth paying for 50hp 17:13:59 * jpeg got confused for a moment, as well 17:14:04 You have to pay some money via paypal in order to unlock Ashenzari :P 17:14:24 dpeg: s/Ashenzari/Gozag/ 17:14:38 We decied on "Gozag"? 17:14:50 also, I can't agree to make SF a touch spell :p 17:14:57 but I'm not a dev 17:15:16 Sticky Flame is much too powerful as-is 17:15:32 I like the idea of SF as a touch spell 17:15:45 due: he's listed on the wiki like that, and I've liked the name since it was first suggested 17:15:49 jpeg: agree; I was thinking that it should have the same interface as vamp draining. 17:16:01 I like "Gozag"! I just don't remember having heard it before. 17:16:21 we can place corpses in vaults now, correct? 17:16:41 due: I agree, I'd prefer adjacent casting to requiring touch 17:16:41 there was an idea to give Bolt of Magma a tiny chance of having sticky flame as an additional effect 17:17:20 due: The full name is Gozag Ym Sagoz, and when it was first suggested our recent new gods (Lugonu, Beogh) all had very short names 17:17:21 +1 to SF as a touch spell 17:17:29 also +1 to get rid of Ash's XP boost 17:17:31 wouldn't lead to degenerate play, since to abuse it you would have to spam Magma... and in normal play you spam it anyway 17:17:47 :( @ ZotDef. 17:18:05 It defines a trap_for_ability function... which it only uses once. 17:18:12 Instead it uses a super-duper switc :( 17:18:15 that said, I prefer touch spell to the status quo 17:18:21 Ash would have to get something in return, and even something like constant scrying would do so little to compensate 17:18:50 what if scrying were to extend to 1 square outside los? 17:18:52 jpeg: Oh, I meant something like that rather than confusing touch. 17:18:54 knowing what monsters are coming means little if you want to kill all of them anyway since you need xp 17:19:02 kilobyte: I am not sure... knowledge is power. 17:19:17 in theory, not in Crawl 17:19:17 knowing monsters were coming was nice 17:19:24 kilobyte: also in Crwal 17:19:30 knowing items was also nice 17:19:33 Krawall? 17:19:35 as in, it can be used to _avoid_ fights, but not to win them 17:19:42 their main use was in vaults so I knew where to look for secret doors 17:19:51 extending scrying to LOS + 1 screws 80x24 play 17:19:51 kilobyte: which saves resources often, and lives sometimes 17:19:59 galehar: yes 17:19:59 avoiding lets you ninja runes/etc, but that's a quite rare use 17:19:59 kilobyte: it allows you to prepare, too 17:20:13 kilobyte: knowing where monsters are is really strong 17:20:23 elliptic: congrats to Spring win. 17:20:24 kilobyte: you can see which enemies are worth buffing against beforehand, for one thing 17:20:25 I don't know how you can say it means little 17:20:27 screw 80x24, people should learn to use decent terminals :p 17:20:29 * dpeg bows to the master. 17:20:35 I like the recent idea to give away wand and weapon brand of monster 17:20:45 elliptic: well, this is said by someone who wanders Pan at xl 11 :p 17:20:50 galehar: oh, this is agreed upon. I put it into the Todo :) 17:21:00 cool 17:21:01 kilobyte: it isn't just me saying it, you know 17:21:22 dpeg: well, I abused the fact that walls in sprint 4 are LRD-breakable :) 17:21:26 !lg * spring map=~fedhas 17:21:27 Malformed argument: spring 17:21:30 !lg * sprint map=~fedhas 17:21:32 617. AcidRobin the Chiller (L2 DEIE), splashed by acid in Sprint (Sprint IV: "Fedhas' Mad Dash") on 2010-12-26, with 33 points after 85 turns and 0:00:16. 17:21:35 elliptic: obviously, with everyone piling up on kilobyte just now :) 17:21:36 kilobyte: it is true that knowledge will not win fight, but I think you underestimate what it does gain for you: resources (by using them better) and safety. 17:21:38 !lg * sprint win map=~fedhas 17:21:38 1. hyperbolic the Earth Mage (L12 DEEE), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb on 2010-12-26, with 278148 points after 7311 turns and 0:27:28. 17:21:46 woh, grats! 17:21:58 elliptic: you scoundrel :P 17:22:01 !lm * type=orb map=~fedhas s=name 17:22:14 No milestones for * (type=orb map=~fedhas) 17:22:14 er 17:22:16 elliptic: my latest plan was to get a SpAs^L to a distortion dagger... this should be possible. 17:22:17 !lm * sprint type=orb map=~fedhas s=name 17:22:17 2 milestones for * (type=orb map=~fedhas): 2x hyperbolic 17:22:20 dpeg: it was mainly useful to make the orb run much easier... I also died once on the sprint 4 orb run before the win 17:22:59 WRT sticky flame as a touch spell, it's nice :) I'm trying a mottled drac atm ;) 17:23:20 kilobyte: in any case, the xp boost of Ash should go. We all agree that the god should be strengthened afterwards, just not about how much. Right? 17:24:02 Is SF range 0 just a single number to change? I could do it, taking all the blame. (There will be lots of it. Including: "dpeg just ruined the FE class.") 17:24:21 the mottled drac splash sticky flame is quite fun 17:24:37 speaking of ash, people on ##crawl the other day seemed to think that ash might be bugged to make skills advance using much less xp than usual 17:24:42 yes 17:25:03 elliptic: for reskilling or in general? 17:25:04 I was training evo at xl14 and it took about 25 exp from each use 17:25:04 is there any chance that reskilling is messing up the count of how much xp you have spent on skills total? 17:25:22 sorry, skill level 14* 17:25:31 and then I reloaded and it took about 300 17:25:32 jpeg: people seemed to think that this was happening more in games where they had reskilled a lot 17:25:35 not sure what is going on there 17:25:36 Error (dc-corpse.txt:262): couldn't load image 'sky_beast'. 17:26:01 due: didn't you forget something? 17:27:25 I'd guess that skill_cost_level might be getting messed up sometimes, and reloading is recalculating it from scratch so that is fixing it 17:28:19 casmith789, elliptic: thanks for reporting that. I'll look into. 17:28:55 btw, thanks for bumping up the meph noise levels 17:29:03 nice for attracting monsters in this sewer :p 17:29:23 meph noise hasn't changed 17:29:37 it always had a noise of 15 17:30:15 galehar: Oh, meh. I moved the location of the corpse. 17:30:19 galehar: Will fix. 17:30:25 I changed the noise "out of LOS message", which was misleading ("gentle poof") 17:31:59 galehar: Pushed a fix, hopefully. 17:32:18 03due * r36fba810b746 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix tiles compilation (galehar). 17:32:45 oh, and whoever designed tornado's look, it is awesome 17:32:53 kilobyte: ^ 17:35:09 elliptic: I think you're right. In some cases, total_skill_points can get messed up. I'm fixing it. 17:35:17 thanks 17:35:22 great :) 17:36:36 casmith789: in console? 17:36:40 yes 17:36:52 the look sucks bigtime when it expires 17:36:52 well, especially when over water or lava as well as floor 17:36:56 the contrast is good 17:40:21 SPELL_STICKY_FLAME, "Sticky Flame", 17:40:21 SPTYP_CONJURATION | SPTYP_FIRE, 17:40:21 SPFLAG_DIR_OR_TARGET, 17:40:21 4, 17:40:21 100, 17:40:24 1, 1, 17:40:31 Should I push this? 17:40:38 dpeg: No. 17:40:51 dpeg: does it work in wizard mode? 17:40:52 dpeg: premature; it's such a staple spell that it will have big repercussions 17:41:02 Eronarn: ... Shut up. 17:41:12 dpeg: No, it's not enough, and it has weird effects with monsters--from what I remebmer. 17:41:39 maybe change it to the mottled drac code (or similar?) 17:41:42 what's the difference here? 17:41:57 Zannick: Range reduction to one. 17:41:58 I like dracs being unique 17:42:03 due: ooh 17:42:27 dpeg: It really needs to be split out into two different spells: player sticky flame (range 1), and monster sticky flame (variable range otherwise it has weird impacts on breath spells). 17:42:37 due: alright 17:43:06 I know that greensnark and Keskitalo were fine with SF as a touch spell. The only question is how to do it properly. 17:43:29 dpeg: i think an actual spell with the Touch status light is better than just making it a one-range spell 17:43:45 Eronarn: yes, that's why I asked 17:44:06 I prefer the freeze/vampiric draining interface 17:44:22 casmith789: Me too. 17:44:25 it seemed pretty obvious something was wrong about ashenzari as a flat 37.5% xp bonus wouldn't account for the runaway skill growth 17:44:35 casmith789: they're different things: you can stack the requires-hitting ones and use them multiple times in a row 17:44:47 it's not just interface, but also some mechanical difference 17:44:50 yeah, I prefer the other one 17:45:31 03galehar * r19329f638e6c 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Preserve total_skill_points when simulating a skill transfer. 17:45:55 Eronarn: As a touch light the effect would wear off as soon as you "pass it on". 17:46:03 we should update CDO because this bug is abusable. 17:46:10 due: that's not how conf touch works 17:46:17 it's how slimify works, but that uses different code 17:46:38 Eronarn: That's how I'm saying it should work, otherwise you get multiple "uses" out of a single cast. 17:46:45 !tell Napkin 00:46 <+galehar> we should update CDO because this bug is abusable. 17:46:46 It's fine for confusing touch because it's such a minor spell. 17:46:46 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 17:46:47 updating 17:46:53 ah, sorry 17:47:13 galehar: aha, great 17:47:17 what was the bug? 17:47:23 due: ...lolwut. if anything, it's more fine for sticky flame to do it; confusing touch is such a minor spell that it shouldn't be as good as it is (it was already nerfed once and is still very strong) 17:47:34 !tell Napkin 00:46:01 <+kilobyte> updating 17:47:34 syllogism: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 17:47:40 if you cancel transfer knowledge after having selected the source skill, futur skill training will cost much less XP. 17:47:50 oh weird 17:47:50 dpeg: Are you happy with being able to cast sticky flame once and then use the effect multiple times on multiple monsters? 17:47:52 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4108-g19329f6 (31.22) 17:47:59 dpeg: Because I'm not. 17:48:01 yeah I did that a couple of times but never noticed the causal link 17:48:18 due: at range 1, that would require you to go adjacent to multiple monsters 17:48:47 it's not as simple as 'you can use sticky flame more than once!!!' 17:49:01 due: you may hate the sheep fire thingy I added recently, as an experiment with that "herd behaviour" idea 17:49:20 for starters, the current stacking on conf touch often requires a bunch of casts 17:49:21 I think the burning sheep are fine. 17:49:28 !tell napkin can I have an account with the rights to update CDO? So I can clean my own mess :) 17:49:28 galehar: OK, I'll let napkin know. 17:49:36 a bunch of L4 casts is a bigger deal than a bunch of L1 ones, though 17:49:49 due: I think the range 0 nerf is big enough to make the choice of touch not matter too much. 17:50:02 Eronarn: In those instances you may as well just wait until you're next ot the monster and then cast it via vampiric draining niterface. 17:50:07 Eronarn: How is your method any better? 17:50:10 since normally they tend to clump into clusters, sticky flaming a single sheep causes the whole herd to quickly catch fire and run away in all directions bleating in panic 17:50:12 due: so I could see going with the best one (from player pov) 17:50:20 kilobyte: <3 17:50:28 they don't actually bleat though :( 17:50:31 kilobyte: <3. 17:50:35 that I know of! 17:50:47 yeah, should add messages :p 17:51:19 right now sheep fires may be started only with Sticky Flame, this should probably be changed to big fire spells 17:52:07 I'm not sure sheep fire is a big part of the game ;P 17:52:15 kind-of an easter egg 17:52:15 it is an integral part 17:52:34 We are planning for Shawn the Sheep franchise, it will be HUGE. 17:52:39 would it be easy enough to generalise sheep behaviour a bit, such as to make them more unique 17:52:42 did you add it to 0.8 highlights yet? 17:53:16 :) 17:53:21 Making sticky flame like confuisng touch will just be annoying. 17:53:36 due: touching has a miss chance; better fits the theme of sticky flame (hit multiple enemies with it in one go); can't be spammed multiple times in succession the way draining/freeze can - these aren't things that make it 'better', but different, and i think on balance sticky flame as touch is more interesting than Sticky Freeze 17:53:55 Because then you hav eto spend multiple turns to actually use it: once to get the status effect, then another to actually touch the monster. 17:54:02 How does that improve anything? 17:54:25 dpeg: maybe you should an episode featuring the sheep brewing stonesoup :p 17:54:34 haha 17:54:38 dpeg: *suggest 17:54:51 dpeg, jpeg, with the pot conveniently lit by one of their fiery friends? 17:54:59 due: you say that like it's a bad thing 17:55:04 (hint: it's not) 17:55:24 yes! :D 17:55:40 Eronarn: I respectfully disagree. It's a bad thing. 17:56:14 some spells requiring more setup/planning than others is not a bad thing 17:56:38 would veh range boost apply to new sticky flame 17:56:43 monky: No. 17:57:02 doesn't it apply to freeze? it did to 1-range sandblast 17:57:18 I don't think it applies to freeze 17:57:28 I think SF as a touch spell is a bigger nerf than just range 1. We should start by reducing the range, but keep the touch idea in case it needs more nerfing. 17:57:29 Freeze isn't a destructive spell. 17:57:37 ...why isn't freeze a destructive spell 17:57:45 Eronarn: It's not a conjuration? 17:57:49 so? 17:57:52 neither is tornado 17:58:02 or sandblast, for that matter 17:58:04 veh supports a lot of destructive non-conj, like orefrig 17:58:24 there's a list somewhere 17:58:32 if freeze isn't on that list, it's a bug 17:58:37 not really 17:58:39 ... 17:58:41 ya rly 17:58:44 It's a *touch* spell. 17:58:55 You have to be standing next to them to cast it. 17:59:37 spells like Tornado are on the list but don't get a range extensions, merely a wizardry bonus and a mana rebate 17:59:57 due: touch spells work how we decide them to work; if we decide that touch spells can't have their range extended, fine, but that has nothing to do with whether freeze is a destructive spell 18:00:09 I suppose you can argue it's an omission if vehumet occasionally reduces mana cost of other lvl 1 spells 18:00:38 Does mana reduction apply to low-level spells? 18:00:41 full list of non-summ/conj veh-supported spells: shatter, lrd, sandblast, airstrike, tornado, ignite poison, orefrig 18:00:52 I think it applies to 4+ 18:01:01 it applies to 5+ 18:01:03 but I'm not up to date 18:01:06 (reducing them to 4+) 18:01:13 magic dart doesn't get a range boost or a mana rebate, either 18:01:17 4-8, rather 18:01:20 ie ozocubu's refrigeration costs 4 and so does sticky flame 18:01:21 So it doesn't really matter if Vehumet supports freeze or not, the most you'll get out of it is wizardry? 18:01:24 that doesn't mean it should be left off the destructive spell list 18:01:36 why not 18:01:51 I think everything gets range boosts 18:02:04 everything applicable* 18:02:22 due: and a green highlight! 18:04:25 also, one note: it is going to be annoying having sticky flame be 1 range but still have a chance to miss, i think it will be the only spell that does that with the sandblast change (and that could hit out to 2 before with a rock) 18:04:54 Eronarn: It's going to be range 1 and autohit. 18:04:55 whereas if you make it unable to miss, that's arguably a buff 18:05:05 what is the maximum number of enemies that can exist on a single dlvl, does anyone recall? 18:05:25 Eronarn: It's a nerf and a buff. 18:05:31 Eronarn: no way that is a plain buff. 18:05:54 dpeg: well, that part of it is a plain buff; on balance, i think range 1 autohit sticky flame is stronger than range whatever can miss sticky flame 18:06:00 though i could see someone arguing otherwise 18:06:38 Eronarn: But it means you have to stand next to (that hill giant) and risk major damage to your fragile caster. 18:06:44 Hence why I think it's the perfect nerfbuff. 18:06:51 due: and risk one hit because then you autohit the hill giant 18:06:54 and then kite it 18:07:27 SF was always all about the kiting 18:07:37 yes, but now it'll be easier to do because it always hits 18:07:51 puh-lease 18:07:55 also, it lights up invisible creatures, and auto-hits them too 18:08:10 oh, dpeg! 18:08:15 There is a bog mummy tile, did you see? 18:08:21 03galehar * rd5d7a98a34b7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/ (title02.png title03.png): Add 2 new title screens. 18:08:23 Eronarn: do you often go toe-to-toe to sticky flame monsters? 18:08:50 jpeg: i prefer to avoid it, but i also prefer to avoid missing with sticky flame 18:08:57 jpeg: http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/sky_beast.png;hb=master <-- I think it might need some cleaning up and I'm not sure how the lightning looks. 18:09:16 missing doesnt do anything, you just cast it again or if the enemy is too close you run back to stairs 18:09:20 i'm not saying that the range nerf is pointless, just that on balance, i think i would rather have the auto-hit than the range 18:09:26 jpeg: But that's how I envisioned sky beasts to start with... I apparently just forgot to do the tile to start with. 18:09:33 dpeg: http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/undead/bog_mummy.png;hb=master <-- Bog mummy! 18:09:34 due: is it... a flying fish? 18:09:41 I personally prefer using sticky flame in melee; it feels a lot less spammy than kiting 18:09:47 syllogism: missing wastes a turn, wastes your MP, you can do it multiple times in a row, etc. 18:10:06 sticky flame isnt an ideal spell to use in a situation where it's dangerous to waste a turn 18:10:07 jpeg: Hah! It's a kind of dragon-y flying beast thing, so, I suppose so? 18:10:14 syllogism: now it is! 18:10:22 no, you still have to run and kite 18:10:26 for it to actually do useful damage 18:10:43 due: nice (tile) but I expected it to be darker. Tells you how much I know :) 18:11:03 double moves make range-1 kiting dangerous, at least 18:11:38 syllogism: kiting isn't 'wasting' a turn though, and if you can take a hit, then neither is casting sticky flame - unless it misses 18:11:58 monky: yes <3. 18:12:07 dpeg: The bog mummy? 18:12:16 yes 18:12:20 dpeg: It's considerably darker than the originally submtited tile. 18:12:23 Eronarn: I'm saying you are overstating the importance of "wasting" a turn when sticky flame misses at range 18:12:24 oh :) 18:12:29 dpeg: It's not as dark as a real bog mummy, but I think it works. 18:13:01 having it be a ranged spell is definitely more useful than it autohitting at range 1 18:13:30 due: nice tile 18:14:07 due: but are the white border pixels near the tail intentional? 18:14:51 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 18:15:23 jpeg: It's part of the electricity... I think you can see it clearer on a non-whit ebackground. 18:15:55 due: then what do you mean by cleanup? 18:16:22 skybeasts look cuter than i expected 18:16:38 jpeg: I wasn't happy with how the lightning affected the borders. :) 18:17:24 due: should there be a black border around the lightning? 18:17:38 jpeg: There isn't in the Rakshasa tile, which is where I stole the lightning from :) 18:19:17 due: but that one has rim and lightning clearly separated 18:19:30 Yeah. 18:19:45 In my sleep deprived stat elast night, it looked great! 18:19:48 Now I'm indecisive :( 18:19:53 due: ... and it does get its rim added computationally 18:20:03 Ah. 18:20:39 due: It does look great, but also as if there are some holes near the tail tip and stuff 18:21:16 I've to say I dislike these Frederick tiles, but I'm not a tiles player and can't even recall what he currently looks like 18:21:21 due: it's probably best to move the lightning ends a bit away from the base tile border 18:21:52 this tile makes him look like a thug/gang member 18:21:53 syllogism: pretty similar, except he currently has cooler equipment and a more badass stance 18:22:07 jpeg: Yeah, I'll have to tweak it ... after lunch. :D 18:22:24 due: lunch? :o 18:23:00 oh he does look similar 18:23:23 syllogism: I did the same double take earlier. 18:24:10 03due * r5f2d60f4f98c 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Refactor Zot trap and monster creation abilities. 18:24:22 03due * re7f700517d5d 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: Fix #3051: Zot Defence create traps not identified. 18:24:49 here's a feature request I've been wondering about: at high traps & doors skill, you can disable zot traps 18:25:44 casmith789: has been discussed 18:25:56 with no really clear outcome 18:26:35 well it won't really affect the game. But currently there is really no reason to get T&D above ~12-14 or so 18:26:59 there really is limited reason to get t&d even that high 18:27:07 03Mu * rdb5bb7397e46 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: One new floating vault. 18:27:09 there's that whole thing about setting traps 18:27:11 yes 18:27:13 what happened to that 18:27:35 7-8 is fine for easy trap detection, and you don't even need trap detection at all 18:28:00 I had T&D 14 in tar:mu and I detected all secret doors in 1 or 2 passes 18:28:11 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:32 monky: I will turn it into an implementable at some day. 18:28:36 pointless_: hi! 18:28:40 hi 18:29:27 Mu_: <3333333333333333 18:29:31 :) 18:29:58 Mu_: What did you think of the tower of Silence? 18:30:18 is it pushed ? 18:30:20 I actually need to add a room with corpsesand ravens. 18:30:23 No, I emailed it to you? 18:30:34 oh whoops one sec 18:30:54 oh ye! 18:30:56 looks cool 18:31:29 a lot of doors at the very bottom part though :P where's the gloom going 18:31:37 I was a bit door happy. 18:31:47 today will be Attempt 2. 18:32:31 could spawn it in crypt too of course 18:34:02 yes 18:34:38 i'd probably guarantee at least one spectre too even though it's statistically unlikely one wouldn't generate 18:34:46 i'd still be nervous :P 18:35:06 nice layout though :) 18:35:58 yes, I am very happy with the layout. 18:36:10 Just not so much about the bottom bits. I may make them asymmetrical :o 18:36:18 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:19 Ooooh. 18:37:20 vampire prolly into gothic architecture anyway, lotta irregular layouts :P 18:37:41 http://sprunge.us/SIZT 18:38:21 I am not totally unhappy with this. 18:42:28 ghost moth seems a bit weird, but whatever 18:44:12 Mu_: enough 1s are placed that you will always get a silent spectre. 18:44:59 I am so sorely tempted to add ravens :D 18:45:30 blue 'b'? This is problematic due to them not necessarily acting in a batty manner. 18:45:53 do we really need a glyph for just batty monsters 18:45:58 Eronarn: True. 18:46:05 due: I'd consider a constant repetition of "Nevermore" pretty batty behaviour :) 18:46:09 jpeg: <3 18:46:15 jpeg: I'm going to add a new monster WITH A TILE! :D 18:46:31 @??kenku 18:46:31 due: you can even add the lightning! :p 18:46:32 kenku (12H) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 17-39 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10, 5, 5 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 130. 18:46:53 :D 18:47:11 dpeg, still around? 18:47:15 yes 18:47:18 but not for long 18:47:32 happy to go for "Jure" or something similar? 18:47:46 sure 18:48:05 Jure or Jory? I like Jory myself. 18:48:35 Of the suggested names I liked Iure best 18:49:07 what are those names for 18:49:08 how do you English speaking people pronounce 'J'? Not sure what would a person who's not told to do otherwise do it. 18:49:36 I mean, few people know that "loch" needs to be said "loh" without being specifically told so. 18:49:47 kilobyte: Yeah, that's part of the problem. 18:50:00 I'm assuming "Jure" is similar to "Yuri", yeah? 18:50:17 jpeg: I was quite attached to "Iure" myself but now I'm not sure. 18:51:02 It seems awfully vowel-heavy now. 18:52:56 kilobyte: jay? 18:54:42 hmm... I'm not sure I actually like the new cauldron title screen 18:55:01 why is that troll wielding a machine gun? 18:55:29 kilobyte: are you familiar with the performance implications of LOS checks? If I check LOS several times per monster move, will that have too much performance impact? 18:55:47 There's a troll with a machine gun? 18:55:47 * jpeg adjusts her monitor's contrast 18:56:32 nights 18:56:34 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:35 pointless_: they are cached nowadays 18:56:39 ah, it's probably a crossbow 18:56:48 monsters with firearms are awesome! just look at slashem! 18:56:52 ... but the general shape is... 18:56:52 * jpeg falls apart laughing 18:56:58 oh good 18:57:51 but firearms aside, the style is completely different from the other screens 18:58:53 clashes a bit with the clean font used for "Loading complete etc." 18:59:32 I hate hate hate the pixellated font 18:59:57 the pixellated font is the least of my problems 19:00:09 the machine gun looks strange, indeed, but otherwise the image appears ok to me 19:00:30 you don't think that robed guy looks a bit squashed 19:00:52 or the cauldron a bit wonky? 19:01:50 the robed guy bends forward, so the perspective is ok 19:01:53 jpeg: could you review 3033? I believe it's related to the tiles specific kraken tentacle code. I would look into it myself but I'm away from my development system 19:02:45 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:03:21 pointless_: will do 19:03:26 thanks 19:03:44 pointless_: i haven't looked at undead krakens at all yet 19:04:20 as I recall, the main body is a mons_zombie_kraken (or simulacra), and the tentacle segments are MONS_KRAKEN_XXX with the MF_FAKE_UNDEAD flag set 19:04:44 so it may be that checks are looking for kraken segments, then looking for the head and not finding it correctly 19:05:05 well there is no such thing as mons_zombie_kraken, rather it's mons_zombie_large with kraken set as the base type 19:06:28 *checking* yes, it's a simple assertion 19:07:26 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:27 we need to fix the license so we can get crash dumps in windows. 19:07:47 yeah 19:08:12 what's that to do with licenses? 19:08:48 jpeg: Someone came up with a few packages that we could use that do good crash dumps, but we can't (really) use them. 19:09:22 due: so what can _we_ do to change that? 19:09:33 due: isn't the licensing problem on their side? 19:09:37 no, it's ours 19:09:59 our license is a variant of the original nethack license which is a variant of the original GPL -- but it's not actually GPL compatible. 19:10:18 i thought we'd changed that 19:10:43 * jpeg gets confused as soon as the word "license" is mentioned 19:12:43 jpeg: you're not the only one :) 19:12:52 the biggest problem is that our license is not compatible with ANYTHING 19:13:09 except possibly NetHack, but even that is questionable since one word differs :p 19:13:15 kilobyte: What decision did we come to, anyway? We were going to officially relicense everythin gthat we could as GPL and then rewrite what we needed? 19:13:47 can we announce the relicense and be in an intermediate sate, or do we need to rewrite/get relicensing agreements first? 19:16:16 How are contributions handled? Is copyright handed over to the Crawl project or do you have the unenviable task of contacting every single non-trivial contributor to get permission to relicense? 19:16:47 sadly, the latter 19:17:12 I did send mails to everyone whose address is listed somewhere 19:18:05 what's left is contacting several of those who didn't respond yet, and trying to find those for whom there's no email address but just a name or even just a nick known 19:18:37 kilobyte: Daniel Ligon contacted m at osme point in time 19:18:40 I think I received a mail but forgot to reply 19:19:16 it is impossible to hand copyright to "the Crawl project" as there's no such legal entity 19:20:15 @??pulsating lump 19:20:15 pulsating lump (05J) | Speed: 5 | HD: 10 | Health: 39-71 | AC/EV: 2/6 | Damage: 1309(mutation) | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 52. 19:20:35 Adeon: yeah, I didn't spam you guys again yet -- and I admit I haven't done much in a while, after two large waves of mails 19:21:37 kilobyte: Yeah, I guess that's mostly an option for larger projects where there can be proper entities set up. 19:22:09 Adeon: it's enough to just say "yes" here I think 19:22:53 I couldn't care less what happens to the code I wrote 19:23:03 Hm. 19:23:04 so yes 19:24:33 I wrote the sha256 hashing to MT and did a minor change to seeding procedure. it was a quick fix to an exploit at the time. I thought there should probably be a more elegant solution but looks like nobody has cared 19:25:19 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:32:30 I for one have no real clue about generation of secure random numbers 19:33:18 1. you can't backtrack if you somehow learn the state 2. you can't predict with better than 50% chance what the next bit is 19:33:53 I _think_ using any known-good stream cipher (assuming a decent seed) would be good, fast and easy enough 19:34:21 not sure how much CPU is used for generation of random numbers on the servers 19:34:59 I did some profiles some time ago. the hashing takes significantly more time than just using MT, but overall compared to everything else, the time spent on generating numbers is still small 19:36:10 some time ago = maybe a year ago 19:38:25 maybe encrypting a random counter is good enough 19:39:27 there are some designs that use hashes and block ciphers like yarrow, but I don't think crawl needs a full-blown CSPRNG 19:39:51 besides, there aren't that many people who try to exploit them 19:40:05 in fact, I'm only aware of myself who has shown interest 19:40:27 Adeon: and there aren't really many points where exploiting it would be possibly beneficial in a destructive-to-other-people way (Tournament) 19:41:34 Adeon: Sartak and I have also done work on RNG manipulation in roguelikes 19:41:48 nobody's gotten to quite your level though. 19:42:06 using exploits against crawl was way harder than on nethack 19:42:14 howso? 19:43:10 in nethack it's easy to extract random numbers from very start of a save. crawl generates a lot of numbers before it starts, so seed finding is less feasible. using lua it's possible to read random2 output for hundreds of random values though, if you want to reconstruct MT state 19:44:33 IIRC, random2 always throws away at least one bit of information away so that needs some fiddling 19:44:45 I never went there 19:45:53 i.e. you can't get the MT outputs directly from random2, is what I meant, you need to harvest more random values to fill in the missing bits 19:50:39 Assertion failure in 'tilesdl.cc' at line 193 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3060) by vonbrand 20:04:39 Hm. 20:05:07 Is the shout_type enum ever saved? 20:05:19 Ah, no, it's not. 20:05:33 It does a straight class lookup. 20:08:02 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:14:15 03j-p-e-g * r6d97f33524c1 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Fix #3033: Crashes when drawing tentacle tiles for kraken zombies. 20:14:17 03j-p-e-g * r6282fd361456 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add a tile tab for common commands. 20:14:18 03j-p-e-g * r2ea14a83b7d2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Silence a compilation warning. 20:15:10 -!- jpeg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:29:32 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:59 Memorizing spells makes minimap reset (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3061) by theclam 21:04:43 I got "Unknown mummy type." after killing a bog mummy, I'm guessing it's to do with the curse 21:06:30 also on new monsters, the fire crab looked pretty weird from what I saw of it in n78291's game 21:06:51 what'd it do? 21:07:47 it didn't leave a trail and then the flame clouds spread out really strangely 21:08:22 either that or the trail was very disproportionate 21:12:40 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:42 okay it's not as bad as I remember it 21:20:01 just a bit weird the way it spreads in tight spaces 21:20:24 it goes in a few weird directions 21:23:06 st_: Oooh, oops. 21:23:14 monky: Trail? 21:23:22 it actually had one 21:23:26 It doens't. 21:23:34 monky: It doesn't leave a trail, it breathes a fire cloud shaped similarly to a swamp dragon's breath. 21:23:39 oh 21:23:40 hm 21:23:54 it looked like it had a cloud trail at least one of the times I observed it 21:23:58 I mean the breath did 21:24:01 not the crab itself 21:24:15 Okay 21:24:19 It breathes onto a target 21:24:24 The target explodes into a large cloud of flames 21:24:36 Then it walks back up the tracer to the monster and places a cloud of flame for each step o the tracer 21:24:42 So yes, the breath has a tracer. 21:24:45 Erm, a trail. 21:25:53 ??bog mummy 21:25:53 I don't have a page labeled bog_mummy in my learndb. 21:25:54 I think I'm getting used to the flame explosions too 21:26:05 monky: It's definitely unique. 21:26:30 and it breathes a lot more frequently than anything else I've seen 21:26:59 Hm. 21:27:22 It has the exact same chances of breathing as a lindwurm and a fire drake. 21:27:32 So no, it must just be coincidental. 21:27:53 but it's faster, right? 21:28:16 or does that not matter 21:28:35 It's slower tha na fire drake. 21:28:40 @??fire drake 21:28:40 fire drake (05l) | Speed: 12 | HD: 6 | Health: 20-45 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 8 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(24), 05fire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 183 | Sp: flame blast (3d12). 21:28:43 @??fire crab 21:28:43 unknown monster: "fire crab" 21:28:45 Meh. 21:28:52 Fire drakes are 12, crabs are 11, lindwurm 10. 21:29:02 must just seem like more because all of the clouds 21:32:29 yeah 21:32:29 03due * rd08ecb6087cb 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Give bog mummies a death curse! (clouded). 21:34:38 @??bog mummy 21:34:38 unknown monster: "bog mummy" 21:34:41 Need to update that. 21:35:56 !learn add bog_mummy A brackish-water variant of your average mummy. Instead of canopic jars and copious fluttering bandages, this creature was pushed face first into a bog and left to mummify naturally over hundreds of years. 21:35:56 bog mummy[1/1]: A brackish-water variant of your average mummy. Instead of canopic jars and copious fluttering bandages, this creature was pushed face first into a bog and left to mummify naturally over hundreds of years. 21:36:00 :D 21:36:57 what sort of death curses do they do? 21:37:04 Just plain degeneration potions. 21:37:20 I want to make it more flavourful but my mind hasn't come up with anything yet. 21:38:28 !learn add bog_mummy Soggy mummy. Cold and fire resistant to one level, amphibious (but slow); hits harder (25 to 20; additional AF_COLD touch attack for 4). Slows, throws frost, and casts corpse rot. 21:38:28 bog mummy[2/2]: Soggy mummy. Cold and fire resistant to one level, amphibious (but slow); hits harder (25 to 20; additional AF_COLD touch attack for 4). Slows, throws frost, and casts corpse rot. 21:38:35 !learn swap bog_mummy[1] bog_mummy[2] 21:38:36 Swapped bog_mummy[1] with bog_mummy[2]. 21:45:33 why are they magical 21:47:47 hm? 21:48:43 oh, they're reanimated by some malignancy 21:51:20 Searching and stacks of items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3062) by st 22:09:07 I'm writing about ravens. 22:12:25 do bog mummies show up in swamp only, or what? 22:12:47 Just Swamp at the minute. 22:13:02 i like the minor cold damage, but throw frost is kinda eeh, imo 22:13:03 It's part of my insidious plan to have unique monsters in every branch and reduce the number of boring shared monsters. 22:14:36 you could implement that earth 'liquefy floor' spell people have been wanting for a while and put it on bog mummies :D 22:14:50 You start to sink into the ground! 22:22:24 Eronarn: tempting. 22:23:13 due: it would slot in pretty well where you have slow right now 22:23:43 Eronarn: Let me consider it! 22:24:02 As a monster-cast spell it is easily implemented. 22:24:28 I would implemented it just like being trapped in a net, except your changes of escape decrease with the more you are carrying. 22:24:40 other main thing i'd say for bog mummies: something strangle- or asphyxiation-y 22:24:44 You are unaffected if flying. 22:25:00 You can instantly escape by levitating, blinking, or teleporting! 22:25:17 (i'm aware that their nooses were probably ceremonial, but it's still cool as hell to imagine one casting a spell to fill your lungs with bog water, or choking a pitiful adventurer) 22:39:03 except water in the lungs is currently an instadeath 22:43:17 Choking attack would probably be better. 22:47:50 sorear: falling into lava is instadeath, but we have magma bolt 22:49:11 Eronarn: magma bolt isn't set up to fill your lungs 22:50:20 sorear: sounds like a bug to me 22:50:27 maybe that's why no one uses it 23:10:37 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:16 "Who's Liquefaction"? 23:12:31 Needs to be earth-y. 23:12:35 Bog Mummy 23:13:10 No, I mean, for the spell. 23:13:16 Yes 23:13:32 i'd suggest something Germanic, if we could do umlauts 23:13:35 ... spell name. 23:13:45 It would fit in perfectly with existing spells like Vampire's Summon 23:13:54 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:18 oh, what about Kai? nice, hard single syllable 23:18:06 Hm. 23:18:11 Mean's "and" in Greek, too! 23:18:20 I'm going to see what the rnadom name generator will give me. 23:19:07 Skukh 23:19:30 "Schicit":) 23:19:48 clearly, we need more spells with non-Latin names 23:20:30 I'd be so tempted for Richter's Liquefaction, but... 23:20:35 hah 23:20:39 that's good 23:20:52 dpeg may shoot me. 23:20:53 so is this a player spell too? 23:20:57 we have a lightning mage named Nikola 23:21:00 monky: It may eventually become. 23:21:00 that ship sailed a long time ago 23:21:20 and I quit in protest! 23:21:30 Meh, re: Nikola. 23:21:53 I'm still not imperssed by him. 23:22:05 i don't like the way chain lightning works visually 23:22:08 I'm sure we could come up with a more obscure reference. 23:22:20 other than that he's at least as interesting as most other uniques 23:23:17 due: less than 100 years until we can use Coulomb! 23:23:25 Hm, Agricola's Liquefaction 23:23:34 Ooh. 23:23:40 Pawer's Liquefaction? 23:23:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgius_Agricola 23:26:19 Quick clay 23:26:19 Main article: Quick clay 23:26:19 Quick clay, also known as Leda Clay in Canada, is a unique form of highly sensitive clay, with the tendency to change from a relatively stiff condition to a liquid mass when it is disturbed. 23:27:02 That's intersting but it doesn't make sense as a spell name. 23:27:06 "Quicken Clay", sure. 23:27:23 due: i meant the name there, Leda 23:27:48 Oh. 23:27:58 Leda's Liquefaction... sound's good! 23:28:14 who knows, we might have 1 canadian geologist player who will get the reference 23:37:11 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4116-gd08ecb6 23:51:15 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4116-gd08ecb6 (31.22)