01:14:27 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:17:56 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:02 moin 01:22:10 hi 01:22:27 sorear: The Weight Watchers-sponsored re-run of The Love Boat, perhaps? 01:25:52 okay 01:26:02 now to check to see if the ... stint i put in fixes currently borked saves 01:27:40 sorear, Zaba, C++types, http://sprunge.us/TDZL <-- can one of you check the new/delete hack I've got to deal with currently broken saves? 01:28:55 nubinia was just in A Multilevel porta, what is that? 01:29:41 presumably a truncated multilevel portal 01:30:03 buggily generated basis for ziggurats? 01:32:11 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:04 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:31 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:52 apparently he just found it on a D level and it was actually two floors 01:49:45 finally hit _? 01:49:59 speaking of hitting _, the (Hit _) message should be in lightred, such as to attract attention 01:50:05 just as I switched back to him after watching someone else he pressed it 01:50:22 too many players ignore the current lightblue (Hit _) 01:50:28 (drives me mad) 01:50:50 Oh, multilevel portal vault was generated? That's weight 0, which means something is messed up with map weights 01:51:07 or it should blink 01:51:09 :< 01:51:42 monky, did you get it locally or on a public server? 01:51:49 Zaba: nubinia did 01:51:57 Zaba: and it was on cdo 01:53:14 I'd make a patch to change Hit _ to lightred, but it looks like it's just changing the LIGHTBLUE in output.cc, line 178 to LIGHTRED 01:58:09 do you think lightred would be an improvement? if so I don't mind 01:59:03 I thought lightred because it's very obtrusive 02:02:49 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:03:10 pink is better because pink 02:04:05 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:13 I've always advocated blinking random colors and bouncing around the screen under Pong rules 02:14:12 xom coloured 02:14:28 Xom adjusts your screen! 02:14:30 messages from an insane deity! 02:18:37 hm. 02:24:35 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:40 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:21 03greensnark * r51c31aabb8d3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mapdef.cc mapdef.h): Fix maps losing weight and chance when loaded from cache (OG17). 02:33:45 Anyone playing trunk now will see lots of vaults, since the dummy vaults are effectively broken :) 02:33:57 shouldn't regenerating the cache fix that? 02:34:14 There isn't even a need to regenerate the cache; only the load code was broken 02:34:18 I'm updating CDO now 02:35:10 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4071-g51c31aa (31.20) 02:36:27 greensnark: http://sprunge.us/TDZL <-- can you check my creation of a new monster and then its discarding is memory safe, etc? 02:36:43 Creation of a new monster? 02:36:56 Oh, erm 02:37:08 it should be monster caster; unmarshallMonster(in, &caster); delete caster; 02:37:26 er 02:37:45 Or... not. 02:37:47 you 'delete' things that you allocate with 'new' 02:37:50 No, wait. 02:38:01 monster caster = new monster(); 02:38:06 unmarshallMonster(in, caster); 02:38:07 delete caster; 02:38:14 it should be a monster*, though 02:38:44 greensnark: can you help me cluebat due? monster objects should absolutely never exist outside menv 02:39:10 sorear: I think this is just a save compatibility hack 02:39:30 due: You don't have to dynamically allocate the monster for that; monster caster; unmarshallMonster(in, &caster); is sufficient 02:40:36 sorear: Also, monsters totally live outside menv legitimately. The transit list is a vector of monsters in limbo between levels 02:42:37 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-4071-g51c31aa 02:42:41 greensnark: Okay. 02:42:55 greensnark: But I just want to discard the results, so should I delete it? 02:43:08 it's on the stack, it gets discarded when the function returns 02:43:15 What Zaba said 02:43:17 okay 02:44:49 that should also save broken saves 02:44:50 yay! 02:45:56 due: No: "monster caster; unmarshallMonster(in, caster);" 02:46:01 Oops, sorry 02:46:23 greensnark: yes, I presumed that :) 02:46:43 Flaky DSL today :9 02:47:01 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47:01 that's okay 02:47:19 I see due has not yet achieved C++ object lifetime enlightenment 02:47:52 sorear: well, I assumed that as it was declared inside the scope of an if block it would be discarded once it left that scope. 02:47:55 but i wanted to make sure. 02:48:12 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:32 due: if you had enlightenment, you would know that monster m; delete m; makes no sense at all 02:48:49 monster m; m.~m(); makes sense (and is subtly wrong) 02:48:51 sorear: Well, not in that instance. 02:49:25 C++ sucks anywway :D 02:50:50 and I've never really had a need to interact with objects in that sense to have learnt anything. 02:50:53 anyway 02:59:44 hm. 03:01:08 03due * r65265646d4a0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mapmark.cc mapmark.h misc.cc spl-summoning.cc tag-version.h): Fix #2975: crash on loading save after monster cast Malign Gateway. 03:03:46 somehow, I fail to see why _dgn_fill_zone needs to keep two vectors of coord_defs and alternate between them in every iteration 03:04:48 must be some subtle detail of its working that I'm missing 03:05:48 Zaba: It's a standard floodfill; the points in one vector are all at the same distance from the starting point, the other vector has points at that distance+1 03:06:08 I'm not sure that's necessary for dgn_fill_zone if it isn't interested in shortest paths 03:09:29 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:45 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:07 greensnark, it seems to have quite a lot in common with flood_find.. 03:15:19 Replace with iterator! :P 03:15:31 food_find? 03:15:39 well damn, I don't know what kind of an interface that iterator should have so it'd work for all those purposes 03:16:32 all purposes of flood_find + all purposes of _dgn_fill_zone, so that one doesn't have to implement half of those classes/functions on top of the iterator in question in each use case 03:19:28 did someone add a new wizard function for xray but not update the help? 03:20:08 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:01 Bah, they did't 03:22:45 ... wait. 03:27:02 03due * r8f04a6657410 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Fix #2400: shadow creatures summoning feature mimics. 03:27:03 03gafrie * r419203b3d6ba 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Fix shoals open sea background in portals 03:27:04 03due * r6f2f39169681 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Document wiz-mode scrying toggle. 03:27:16 03due * rcbd6543ccee8 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Fix #2860: malign gateway through walls via Scrying. 03:31:13 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:32:18 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:20 Nothing asigned to me, YAY! 03:33:39 03due * ref59218e4721 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/volcano.des: Refactor volcano_caves to prevent trapping (#2772). 03:53:02 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:58 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:54:04 -!- Lollipop has joined ##crawl-dev 03:54:52 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:04 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:17:27 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:56 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:20:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:31:30 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:51 Hi there! 04:32:00 Has anyone won the oklob sprint? 04:32:09 !hs * sprint map=~fedhas 04:32:10 370. AcidRobin the Cryomancer (L12 DEIE), worshipper of Vehumet, mangled by the Enchantress (a +2,+4 flail of distortion) in Sprint (Sprint IV: "Fedhas' Mad Dash") on 2010-12-25, with 26475 points after 4884 turns and 0:30:23. 04:32:11 nope 04:32:17 XL 12 04:32:25 let's go :) 04:32:51 hi dpeg 04:32:55 dpeg, look at all the bugs i fixed! :D 04:33:07 just one more game :) 04:34:05 wtf oklobsaplingg :( 04:34:51 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:57 wb zaba 04:35:23 ... oklob sapling priest? 04:36:13 yes yes yes 04:36:21 due: awesome work! <3 04:36:49 dpeg: with? 04:36:52 oh, bugs. :) 04:37:37 yes :) 04:37:49 what does the burning bush do? 04:38:11 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:51 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:56 due: shoots fire 04:40:00 this one sdoesn't seem so hard 04:40:01 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:11 the map? 04:40:16 It's fiendish :) 04:40:23 I'm XL8 alreadu 04:40:54 try to get XL 11 04:43:22 druid was scary 04:44:18 berserker got me 04:44:21 wasn't prepare for it :) 04:45:00 yes, the berserker gets us all :) 04:45:42 berserk stone giants are a bit meh. 04:45:50 yes 04:46:08 I feel it a bit odd that on a Fedhas map there are Trog spriggans around. 04:46:48 do trog spriggans have the insanely overpowered monster BiA? 04:46:58 yes 04:47:19 try converting them with crusade cards it's a blast 04:47:21 sorear: but that's only a snapshot, it will change 04:47:29 monky: in sprint? 04:47:36 have you decided what to do about it yet? 04:47:41 dpeg: with nemelex 04:47:44 in sprint 04:47:54 (I've done it, but I don't know how easy it is) 04:48:20 sorear: my proposal is that they can only call brothers after having berserked once. Eronarn had something else. 04:48:33 one brother then berserk? 04:48:43 I recall someone suggesting that, at least 04:49:50 no, the other way around 04:49:51 berserk stone giant and berserk spriggan is overkill 04:50:06 due: well, only depends on where we put them 04:50:08 dpeg: do you want me to implemet berserk oncebefore brothers? 04:50:18 due: let's wait until kilobyte is around 04:50:22 okay 04:50:22 he also had an opinion 04:50:56 i should implement my vacuum portal spell :D 04:52:06 +1 :) 04:53:46 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 04:54:32 Should we change malign gateway to tloc only? I a muncertainy. 04:54:40 Pick up a lajatang of pain? (y/n/a/*?g,/q/o) 04:54:50 due: it is Sum/Trl now? 04:55:01 ??malign gateway 04:55:01 malign gateway[1/1]: Summons a portal through which an eldritch tentacle emerges. Depending on spell power, it will be friendly for a number of turns, before turning hostile, or the portal closes and it is severed, whichever happens first (either way, it will turn hostile). Level 7 Summ/Tloc found in the Book of Demonology. 1/3 chance of draining a point of int. 04:58:36 Level 12, yay! 04:58:46 yay! 05:03:56 hm. 05:04:51 !gamesby dpeg sprint map=~fedhas 05:04:52 dpeg (map=~fedhas) has played 37 games, between 20101224 and 20101225, won 0, high score 13921, total score 50952, total turns 14953, total time 1:44:17. 05:06:01 !lg dpeg spring 05:06:02 Malformed argument: spring 05:06:04 !lg dpeg sprint 05:06:04 359. dpeg the Chucker (L1 TrHu), slain by a grey rat in Sprint (Sprint IV: "Fedhas' Mad Dash") on 2010-12-25, with 29 points after 14 turns and 0:00:03. 05:06:10 !whereis dpeg spring 05:06:11 dpeg the Ruinous (L4 KeCj) dead on D:3 on 2010-08-01 after 4083 turns. 05:06:15 @whereis dpeg spring 05:06:15 dpeg the Bludgeoner (L17 MDFi), a worshipper of Elyvilon, saved on Vault:1 on 2010-12-24 after 62794 turns. 05:06:25 I should give up while I'm ahead. 05:06:36 whereis doesn't take game types, and you seem to want seasonal game types :P 05:06:43 hey guys 05:06:48 Napking! 05:06:53 greensnark :D 05:07:01 Schnapps worn off already? :P 05:07:23 I have this demonspawn with the nightstalker mutation - LOS at for 4 now.. harsh! but nice too :D 05:07:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:28 greensnark: My fingers refuse to type sprint. 05:07:31 hehe, not too much schnapps yesterday ;) 05:08:00 the travel exceptions are not considering the LOS, still adding them with the normal range of 8 05:08:50 Yeah, travel exceptions should default to nightstalker radius, I guess 05:09:01 is that something to report? probably not a bug but a missing feature, I guess? 05:09:29 due: you're ahead? :) 05:09:37 Napkin: yes 05:10:07 I put something about ashenzari (specifically reskilling, and more specifically a list of usages and my analyses of them) on the forum, in case anyone is interested 05:10:31 dpeg: of? 05:10:45 and should I copy it to the wiki too? frankly, having multiple places for development discussion is a bit confusing 05:10:54 monky: hence why you should default to the wiki. 05:11:15 consider the forum as totally ignored by the development team :D 05:11:48 12:06 <+due> I should give up while I'm ahead. 05:12:39 there was a thread about ashenzari development (started by galehar and including dpeg, at least) and I had something to say on the topic, so I figured it would be nice to put it there (though I guess I was at least a bit wrong) 05:12:52 monky: well, it's fine to put it there, but put it on the wiki too :) 05:14:50 19983 dpeg the Brawler (level 12, -4/163 HPs) 05:14:56 it's a cruel world 05:15:11 :( poor dploog 05:15:22 wow, XL12 and 164hp?! 05:15:26 *163 05:15:44 Travel exceptions are not adjusted to character's LOS (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3040) by Napkin 05:16:01 Napkin: Sprint 05:16:07 ahhhh :D 05:16:11 *phew* 05:18:51 monky: I don't see why the points you list are problematic (re reskilling). Yes, some skills are under/overpowered and that should be addressed. But cruising with Venom Magic and Stabbing through the early game, only to change to Necromancy later on sounds perfectly acceptable to me. 05:19:12 HO get 100+hp by level 12 in normal crawl, I don't see why trolls can't get 160 odd 05:19:16 I haven't played a single ash char :( 05:19:21 due: try one! 05:19:28 best in Sprint :P 05:19:42 dpeg: no time, so many things to do, only such a small window of productivity per day 05:19:50 dpeg: sorry if I called all of them problematic; I meant to be neutral on the whole there 05:19:53 well... small window = 9 to 5, and most of that is dedicated to work 05:20:04 due: well, fixing bugs is >>>> playing :) 05:20:08 I must admit that I like writing functions that take functions. :) 05:21:43 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:22:31 dpeg: but I must admit that I do dislike them, and I can understand if that somehow rubbed off (apart from the brainless choices section, in which I think I actively and shamelessly expressed my discontent) 05:22:55 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:57 oh god 05:28:32 my word, Zot:5 with the non-vault part being filled with roguey_level looks so odd. 05:29:15 Zaba: pics or it didn't happen! 05:29:54 http://sprunge.us/IJga 05:30:38 Hm. 05:30:42 I like it. 05:31:00 a rather hilariously generated temple: http://sprunge.us/biYe 05:31:59 (encompass vaults are broken) 05:32:04 I see. 05:32:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:34 Zaba: I would also say that the Zot map is acceptable. 05:33:43 yes, it can be worse 05:33:57 the temple is a bug, of course 05:34:22 monky: dislike what? 05:34:22 it can be generated as a spotty level and get disconnected regions, too 05:34:31 oh wait, no 05:34:40 well, a builder_basic level with disconnected regions, then 05:35:20 dpeg: reskilling and its usages (though I prefer some over others, and I don't care too much about it) 05:36:49 monky: the goal was to give players strategic flexibility. Do you disagree with this goal and/or with the execution? 05:39:27 !scores sprint map=~fedhas 05:41:41 !won sprint map=~fedhas 05:41:43 No games for sprint (map=~fedhas). 05:42:16 I'm mostly fine with flexibility based on findings, especially since it requires worship of a god, but I don't really like the ability to completely throw away a background in favor of another, depending on changes in power over the game 05:42:16 monky: why does background have to be so static? 05:42:16 probably personal opinion 05:42:16 i could see the point if it was doable under any circumstances, but it's only acceptable via ashenzari. 05:42:16 monky: I am sure we will make reskilling more costly (currently it is 10% xp loss). Also, once we remove the xp boost, it is an actual loss. 05:42:16 which makes it a controlled circumstance and hence a perfectly acceptable method that will probably get further balance. 05:42:16 due: absolutely. It's rule breaking/changing, hence divine. 05:42:16 due: which is why I'm not outraging (or at least trying not to come off as such) 05:42:16 :) 05:42:16 monky: we are resigned to the fact that not everyone will like it or find it enjoyable. 05:42:16 monky: no, wasn't raging. Which is why we're talking :) 05:42:16 right 05:42:17 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:42:53 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:53 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Home of the Vi-Kings! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 05:42:58 btw, jpeg may be up to doing the gold god (occurred to me b/c of Midas) 05:43:02 dpeg: He slayed the Divine Bull and was born on December 25th/it's early Indo-Aryan equivalent. 05:43:05 dpeg: The date of Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus being born :) 05:43:50 Modern "Christian" Christmas is really a collection of German folk history, early "Christian" interaction with the Roman Saturnalia, and Indo-Aryan Mithras cults. 05:43:56 And what due said: bunch of misc religions had festivals on the winter solstice and Christians just assimilated it 05:44:22 Well, Indo-Aryan onwards Mithras cults. They were pretty big with the Romans a couple thousand years later. 05:44:48 (Including the Avestan Zoroastrians (and Parsis)!) 05:45:17 Please do not add Zarathustra as unique 05:45:41 due: Tower of Silence vault! 05:45:56 I'd be sorely tempted but it probably won't help with my conversion ;) 05:46:22 * greensnark does not want to convert anyone to any religion :P 05:46:34 I have zero religions, and you know it. 05:46:40 * dpeg cursed stupid traditions. 05:46:45 * due slowly converting to Zoroastrianism. 05:46:59 dpeg: But but you're god crazy! Well, at least in Crawl :p 05:47:11 greensnark: yes, I am obsessed with religions. 05:47:22 gotta go for reals now 05:47:23 later! 05:47:26 dpeg: Interestingly, the branch of Zoroastrianism I am kinda following teaches evolution! 05:47:47 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Evolve revolve resolve!] 05:47:52 Hahaha. 05:47:58 due: Tower of silence vault! 05:48:19 greensnark: With Mennas locked in a glass coffin, of course? 05:48:40 If you like! 05:48:44 But also: birds of prey! 05:48:51 Damn. I thought you'd like glass jokes :( 05:48:56 And dire ravens 05:49:22 Tower of Silence would be cool. 05:49:29 Metal and silent spectres. 05:49:51 Actually now I have an awesome idea in my head for the layout. 05:51:00 greensnark: A thin (8-14 wide) vault with a corner orient, but about 20/40 long. 05:51:23 loot biased towards that of use for spellcasters, or is ease for fighter-types unimportant (or irrelevant, if all the silence is unimportant)? 05:51:46 due: Dooo it 05:51:53 monky: No loot, probably. 05:52:18 just silence? 05:52:31 I was thinking multi-level portal vault, actually 05:52:31 fighters would have no invocations or scrolls, at least 05:53:03 (building off of tower) 05:54:04 hm, vampire knights, silent spectres... zombies (the corpses)... 05:55:24 well at least they'd be silenced vampire knights; paralysis is nasty 05:57:34 the name is "knight" not "mage" 05:57:51 hmm 05:58:12 even if they, like elf knights, use magic, the theme requires they should keep a good part of their mojo when silenced 05:58:13 @??vampire knight 05:58:14 vampire knight (10V) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 50-96 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 33, 1505(vampiric) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(88), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 1433 | Sp: vampire summon, paralyse, haste, invisibility, minor healing. 05:58:27 they should get a buff otherwise 05:58:44 invis and haste are nasty too 05:59:29 @??vampire mage 05:59:29 vampire mage (06V) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 27-53 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 7, 1505(vampiric) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(64), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 628 | Sp: b.draining (3d13), summon undead, invisibility, animate dead, teleport self. 05:59:50 http://sprunge.us/JeAL 06:03:01 due: We need three concentric areas in the middle! 06:03:19 Concentric diamonds? 06:03:43 http://sprunge.us/UMci 06:03:47 I've kind of already decided on this layout. 06:04:07 Ooh, this one is more intricate 06:04:32 http://sprunge.us/FSNY 06:04:44 Also, you need explicit exits :) 06:04:53 yeah 06:05:19 * due replaces the top line with @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ :D 06:06:13 One side will be silent spectres, I'm not sure what the other side will be yet. 06:06:32 I wonder if having silence auras around markers wouldn't be a better idea 06:08:37 similar with Tornado: big spells like Firestorm, Hellfire and Torment are balanced by monsters not spamming them, with Tornado that balancing would be gone and the spell would be waaay more dangerous -- that's why I didn't implement it for monsters. But I'd want them for statues -- permanent, even, without a need for recasting. 06:08:38 argh whut 06:09:28 oh, never mind. 06:09:54 it's your vault so you know better what would fit it better 06:10:13 and players might be spooked by a silenced area without an apparent source 06:10:38 kilobyte: No, no 06:10:49 kilobyte: I opened crawl and it segfaulted :) 06:11:18 and I guess disintegrating the statues would remove the effects, right? 06:12:39 it would hav eto 06:12:57 !learn add tloc_miscast see {translocation miscast} 06:12:58 tloc miscast[1/1]: see {translocation miscast} 06:13:03 ??air miscast 06:13:03 air miscast[1/1]: 1: harmless 2: 4-12 elec dmg / meph cloud self 3: 3d8 elec explosion / poison cloud self 06:13:06 ??tloc miscast 06:13:06 translocation miscast[1/1]: By severity: 1: 4-12dmg / 4-10&blink / spatial vortex 2: 9-31 / 5-13&confuse&(blink or teleport) / 2-4 sp. vorts / banish 3: 15-43 / 9-25&tele&conf / banish / 0-18 glow 06:14:23 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:33 Mu_:, greensnark: http://sprunge.us/RfNA <-- that's the final layout, I think. 06:15:38 hail 06:15:59 let's move air miscasts down a whole category... having level 3 do thunderstorms, air vortices with low-powered tornado, or, as Mu_ just said, hail 06:16:06 due: How about a badass vampire unique as boss? 06:16:10 greensnark: <3 06:16:13 greensnark: <3 06:16:14 greensnark: Just not Edward. 06:16:27 Carmilla? 06:16:40 sparkling means no invis, right? :p 06:16:42 I'd rather go for something totally unique though, hm. 06:16:45 kilobyte: :D 06:16:54 due: No pop culture vampires! 06:16:58 those ar esome bigass gates duey 06:17:44 the DE description from the manual says they have an affinity for earth magic, but their apt is 0 06:18:34 hm 06:19:43 greensnark: Strigoi, then? 06:20:32 due: As a unique? 06:21:09 greensnark: I'm trying to find an interesting/unknown vampire myth. 06:21:51 Does anyone speak Russian? 06:22:00 go with orlok 06:22:31 monky: You know, I'd so love to. 06:22:36 Mu_: Or Nosferatu. 06:22:49 I'm not sure we'd get away with Nosferatu, though. 06:22:57 Murnau? 06:23:02 O_O 06:23:13 <3 Nosferatu. 06:24:07 monky: I thought the idea was that DE have more affinity to earth than the other elves 06:24:14 What is SE apt 06:24:16 !apt se 06:24:16 SE: Air: 1, Armour: -2, Axes: -2, Bows: 0, Conj: -2, Xbows: 0, Dodge: 2, Earth: 1, Ench: -2, Evo: 0, Exp: 120, Fighting: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Inv: 0, Long: -1, Maces: -2, Nec: 1, Poison: 1, Polearms: -2, Shields: -2, Short: -1, Slings: 0, Splcast: 2, Stab: 0, Staves: 0, Stealth: 1, Summ: 1, Throw: 2, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 3!, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 06:24:29 Yeah, that's misleading text :) 06:24:34 Shadow of the Vampire was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen. :) 06:24:38 !apt de 06:24:39 DE: Air: 1, Armour: -2, Axes: -2, Bows: 1, Conj: 1, Xbows: -1, Dodge: 2, Earth: 0, Ench: 4!, Evo: 1, Exp: 140, Fighting: -2*, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Inv: 0, Long: -1, Maces: -3*, Nec: 2!, Poison: 1, Polearms: -3*, Shields: -2, Short: 0, Slings: -2, Splcast: 4!, Stab: 1, Staves: 0, Stealth: 2, Summ: 1, Throw: 1, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Traps: 0, Unarmed: -2* 06:25:04 why are they earth 0 anyway 06:25:38 it says they're good with all forms of magic (including necromancy and earth); I'm not sure if it's singling them out at things as specialties or if it means to suggest other races tend to be bad at them 06:25:51 !apt he 06:25:51 HE: Air: 2!, Armour: -1, Axes: -2, Bows: 3!, Conj: 1, Xbows: 0, Dodge: 1, Earth: -2, Ench: 2, Evo: 0, Exp: 150, Fighting: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 2!, Maces: -2, Nec: -2, Poison: -2, Polearms: -2, Shields: -1, Short: 2, Slings: -2, Splcast: 2, Stab: -1, Staves: 0, Stealth: 1, Summ: -1, Throw: 1, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Traps: 0, Unarmed: -2* 06:25:52 but they should at least be better than humans at it 06:25:52 greensnark: What do you think of Murnau? 06:26:08 should give de the 1 to earth and the 0 to air 06:26:17 happy winter solstice! 06:26:27 due: why do you think you couldn't get away with nsoferatu? 06:26:41 bhaak: dpeg :) 06:26:42 Mu_: +1 06:26:55 !apt earth 06:26:55 Earth: Dr: 0, Dr[black]: -2, Ce: -1, DD: 3!, DE: 0, DG: -1, DS: -1, Gh: 1, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Ha: 0, HE: -2, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ke: -1, Ko: 0, Mf: -2, Mi: -3*, Dr[mottled]: 0, MD: 2, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3*, Dr[pale]: 0, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 0, SE: 1, Sp: -1, Tr: -1, Vp: -1, Dr[white]: 0, Dr[yellow]: 0 06:27:01 bhaak: it's too recent 06:27:02 'liz Bathory obeys the 300 years rule 06:27:15 apts are weird 06:27:25 kilobyte: hm? 06:27:42 Oh. 06:27:44 strigoys are not vampires, just share some of their properties... but then, the tales wary WILDLY, especially from country to country 06:28:35 including perhaps even some with being outright vampires 06:28:39 due: oh, "too recent". If he doesn't read wikipedia he probably won't know that its origin isn't asld as it should be? :) 06:28:51 bhaak: :) he'll yell at us when he finds out 06:29:25 due: just fake suprise :) 06:29:40 hahaha nah 06:29:46 it's still too well known 06:30:17 I suppose the 300 year rule doesn't apply to uniques? or is nikolai a legacy unique? 06:30:34 Nikola is... disputed. :) 06:30:38 nikola is recent 06:31:19 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 06:32:38 probalby Duckula isn't an opion either :-) 06:32:45 in Poland for example, unlike sentient vampires strzygas ("rz" is pronounced like English "zh") are of only animal intelligence... attack humans and other warm-blooded animals, mostly eating flesh but also drinking blood, vulnerable to light. Don't reproduce but spawn from dead children buried in non-consecrated ground (or if a priest screws up something) 06:33:07 Interesting. 06:33:50 Rasputin? 06:33:51 Eh. 06:33:51 what about Bathory? 06:33:54 Too cliche. 06:34:15 bhaak: Doesn't really fit the strong melee thread I had in mind. 06:34:22 nice imagery, too... impressive claws, emaciated bodies with muscles like steel ropes 06:34:55 but the standard fictional dracula-like vampire doesn't fit a strong melee thread either? 06:35:14 (got to go, family) 06:35:18 so I see why you'd go Nosferatu-like 06:35:35 bhaak: Demure countess bathing in blood of maidens is a lot harder to conver tot melee than Dracula. 06:35:50 "Dracul" ;-) 06:35:59 Hah. 06:36:40 Hm. 06:36:44 Should I create banshees? 06:37:31 I never knew why screaming ghosts appearing in times you're almost dying should be interesting :/ 06:38:42 We should have some aztecan monsters. 06:40:12 hmmm 06:40:27 y'know what, it works. 06:40:28 Xan is Mayan 06:40:46 Zaba: what does? 06:40:50 bhaak: Xan? 06:40:56 placing primary vaults as secondary vaults on top of already-built levels 06:41:04 ah 06:41:06 I don't really like how it's done in the code, though 06:41:37 ah 06:42:18 due: NetHack's lowlevel pest is named after a mayan name for mosquito. Mayan isn't Aztecan, though 06:42:23 and... yes, stair placement is broken. 06:42:54 due to the fact _builder_basic places stairs on its own... if your D:1 is built by it, and the entry vault has a full set of stairs, something will give 06:42:56 bhaak: ah. 06:43:12 I thought it tries to preserve vault stairs, though 06:43:28 Warning: failed to preserve vault stairs. 06:43:33 makes sense. 06:43:50 the staircase it can't remove is in a small disconnected region, which appears thanks to builder_basic 06:44:33 hm. 06:45:50 other than that, I like the results 06:48:26 @??silent spectre 06:48:26 silent spectre (10p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-59 | AC/EV: 5/15 | Damage: 15 | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 03poison | XP: 313. 06:49:23 @??phantom 06:49:23 phantom (02p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-52 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Damage: 1006(blink) | Flags: 07undead, evil, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 124 | Sp: blink. 06:55:39 Hm, now, waht sort of fog generators should I put in... 06:57:27 @??ghost moth 06:57:27 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 10 | Health: 39-70 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 805(drain strength), 8, 12 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 971. 06:57:35 Hm, should I add some of those in, or are they over-used already? 06:57:55 Apparently not at all. 07:05:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jure_Grando 07:05:40 Mu_: ooh, highly workable 07:05:53 a vampire named Grando would be hilarious 07:05:56 Is "Iure" acceptable? 07:06:33 greensnark, ping 07:10:28 ? 07:11:42 greensnark, I've got a patch that turns primary vault building into seconday vault building in a way that seems to work 07:11:59 Zaba: Cool, commit i 07:12:02 *it 07:12:27 I've got a fucking aweosme map 07:12:28 I don't like the way I coded it, though. 07:12:44 I'm not too happy wiht the monster set though 07:12:50 http://sprunge.us/LjBQ 07:12:51 comments? 07:13:19 due, why not make it a floating vault? 07:13:30 Because I want it to appear in a corner. 07:13:37 are you 100% sure in that 07:13:44 ... why? 07:14:01 I am 100 percent sure that the way I've coded it is the way I want it to appear. 07:14:34 @??silent spectres 07:14:34 unknown monster: "silent spectres" 07:14:36 @??silent spectre 07:14:36 silent spectre (10p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-59 | AC/EV: 5/15 | Damage: 15 | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 03poison | XP: 313. 07:17:42 what is up with weights? 07:18:00 03due * r0ae67ceecca3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-summoning.cc spl-summoning.h terrain.cc terrain.h): Normalise cast_malign_gateway into several functions. 07:23:43 greensnark, should I push it? It breaks crap! 07:23:54 -!- Lollipop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:57 oh well, it's not like I got choice. 07:24:24 03zaba * rbf655b088ad7 10/crawl-ref/source/maps.cc: Use adjacent_iterator in map_safe_vault_place. 07:24:36 03zaba * rb622b1e37a21 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Turn primary vaults into secondary vaults. 07:25:01 there, I've broken level generation fo shizzle. Beat me up all the hell you want :P 07:25:23 Zaba: What does it break? :P 07:25:41 greensnark, the game! Everything! All branch endings now get different layouts :P 07:26:00 not to mention all of Zot :P 07:27:50 greensnark: I sent an email to you, david, et al, about the vualt 07:27:51 -> t obed 07:27:56 greensnark, a big issue is vaults that place stairs 07:28:24 well, not really very big, since the fixup stairs routine tries to preserve vault stairs 07:28:28 the problem is that it might fail 07:28:53 I'm not sure how serious that is, but it can happen if, say, D:1 is builder_basic and the vault is placed so a dead end with an upstair becomes disconnected 07:29:02 due: Thanks :) 07:29:15 that's quite rare, but heh. 07:29:26 Zaba: Doesn't sound terribly dangerous to me 07:29:45 greensnark, I've also elaborated about some of the involved changes in the commit message 07:30:37 in particular, _build_vault_impl/_build_secondary_vault naming should be rethought: The only difference between the two functions is 'clobber' vs. 'check_collisions' in arguments, and the fact _secondary connects the vault if make_no_exits is false 07:33:13 greensnark, I don't like it how the primary vault placement happens right on top of _build_dungeon_level, either. I also don't like it how pandemonium level generation subtly takes a codepath of its own, too. 07:48:40 I'm still awake :( 07:53:02 greensnark, maybe you've got some ideas how to make that code better. 07:53:36 /crawl-svn-51c31aa/dat/clua/dungeon.lua:585: Failed to place map 'gnoll_camp_huts_basic' (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3041) by Surr 07:53:36 03greensnark * r61a4b3398309 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/dungeon.lua: Make die_on_error default to false in dat/clua place_maps for the common case of serial vaults. 07:53:50 * greensnark is taking it easy. 07:54:06 has perfect timing with the announcement 07:56:02 :) 08:02:20 due: Vampire unique with displacement! 08:02:38 greensnark: why displacement? 08:02:46 * due currently converting corpse_rot to monster castable. 08:03:06 Just sounds like a nice effect for a vampire ;P 08:03:40 I mean the thing where you may see it one square away from its actual position, not displaces-other-monsters 08:03:59 Vault looks nice! 08:04:12 that sounds nethackish! 08:04:20 bhaak: D&Dish too :P 08:04:26 Pity dpeg isn't around to shriek in horror :) 08:05:38 i'm implementing bog mummies. :) 08:05:45 Ooh 08:05:48 Sounds cool <3 08:05:51 What do they do 08:05:51 Throw frost, slow, amphibious, casting corpse rot. 08:05:54 But they also themselves rot. 08:06:09 They could also use meph 08:06:17 Nah, too much uses meph. 08:06:25 They'll appear in early swamp. 08:06:27 Only swamp drakes! 08:06:35 And replace mummies sometimes in D :) 08:06:36 What else uses meph? 08:06:42 meph cloud is boring, sorry. 08:06:46 :'( 08:06:48 greensnark, the player 08:07:00 Zaba: That of course 08:07:06 and the player uses meph so much that it replaces 100 different monster types using meph 08:07:15 in terms of annoyance and boredom 08:08:04 yeah 08:09:46 greensnark, what should _build_secondary_vault be called now? Or should perhaps it be merged with _build_vault_impl? 08:10:07 Zaba: Merging it into a single _build_vault seems reasonable 08:10:26 should it have 'clobber' or 'check_collisions'? :P 08:11:42 check_collisions 08:11:51 ok 08:12:03 * greensnark out for dinner. 08:16:53 Wow, they're a pretty buff threat. :D 08:34:37 -!- jarpiain has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:15 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:22 oh.. damn.... 08:38:39 03due * r7f922103de07 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Convert corpse rot into a monster-castable sell. 08:38:42 03due * r0017e483ee62 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Implement bog mummies: water-themed undead. 08:39:12 :) 08:39:18 greensnark: I pushed them! 08:39:19 now, sleep 08:48:16 i've just had two games in a row where temple hasn't seemed to show up anywhere between d:4 and d:7, i don't suppose that could be anything to do with all the layout changes recently? 08:48:44 possibly it's just really well hidden but i did a whole lot of searching last game and didn't find anything 08:49:02 I don't think I've broken branch stair placement 08:50:16 if vault placement fails, it should fall back to just placing the staircase, and vetoing the level if that fails 08:50:27 so the entrance should be somewhere 08:51:13 hm, maybe i'm getting horribly unlucky with secret doors then 08:51:24 or spotty levels 08:51:34 i've found all the staircases on all each floor 08:51:37 okay 08:53:25 just started a game and had a temple entrance appear on D:5. So I guess if there's an issue, it's quite subtle. 08:55:14 hmm okay, i'll try and map the floors i guess 09:11:40 -!- jarpiain has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:56 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:14 crap, my father's dog bit me in the throat 09:22:22 thanks FSM I have a beard 09:22:44 uh oh 09:22:45 visiting the family can be bad for your health 09:24:16 hm, i have no temple entrance again in a new game 09:24:26 but i think i see what should be a temple entrance vault 09:25:01 minmay_temple_entry_statues_pillars 09:26:11 !vault minmay_temple_entry_statues_pillars 09:26:12 Couldn't find minmay_temple_entry_statues_pillars in the Crawl source tree 09:27:09 i've been missing temple in the last few games though so it might not be the vault's fault? i can backup my save and put it on mantis if that'll help 09:27:55 MarvinPA: yes, backup your save 09:29:04 done: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3042 09:29:06 Temple entry vault has no staircase to temple (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3042) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 09:30:28 well duh 09:30:37 those new temple vaults lack the KFEATs 09:31:03 Naughty 09:31:33 Zaba: Can you add a veto check to see if a vault placed for a branch entry doesn't contain the entry? 09:31:37 ahh so it'd be all those last few minmay ones causing it? 09:31:54 yeah 09:32:02 greensnark, I'll look into it 09:33:47 03zaba * r035f8159043f 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Merge _build_secondary_vault and _build_vault_impl into _build_vault. 09:33:49 03zaba * r41ce0f0e4a78 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Make _connect_vault_exit return a boolean value indicating success, and warn if exit connection fails. 09:33:49 03zaba * r2be74f93ad8a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des: Add missing KFEAT: O = enter_temple to temple entry vaults. 09:36:57 greensnark, hmm.. for that, I need to somehow get the vault_placement that corresponds to the vault placed with _build_vault. 09:37:15 _build_secondary_vault used to employ a really ugly hack to do that, I wonder whether there's a proper way. 09:37:19 Make _build_vault return the vault_placement* 09:37:29 ah. Okay. 09:39:19 greensnark, but wait, that won't work. Most things discard the return value of _build_vault. 09:39:49 it'll leak the vault_placements, no? 09:46:41 vault_placements are in a vector, you can't leak them 09:48:15 dgn_register_place does env.level_vaults.push_back(new vault_placement(place)); where 'place' is a vault_placement&. Doesn't that make a copy? 09:50:50 Yes. Why does that matter? 09:51:31 You could use an auto_ptred vault_placement to avoid the copying 09:52:34 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:29 a ghost without a weapon in its hand hitting me like it had distortion brand? :-O 11:12:07 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:17:35 Napkin: ghosts do keep their weapons, even if code-wise they're unarmed 11:17:47 oh, ok 11:17:56 quite confusing though 11:18:08 is it somewhere shown - like in description? 11:18:24 I think weapon delay might be lost, making GSC so much better than quick blades... 11:18:25 like.. surrounded by blabla aura 11:18:43 no, you need to ask Sequell via !log :p 11:18:56 lol 11:19:19 (which all prudent people do if they have a hunch a ghost might be hard :p) 11:19:48 stop kidding me 11:20:11 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:53 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:41 it's just: brand, base weapon's damage * (1 + skill/25), and that's it 11:23:54 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:01 yeah 11:24:19 holy wrath is lost, so are ranged brands but only if that's a ranged-only brand 11:24:21 but it would be cool, if there could be some indication about that - apart from just the class 11:24:28 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:12 I wonder if it would be good to save the entire weapon 11:26:39 however, you don't know the brands wielded by monsters even if the weapon is supposed to be literally on fire 11:28:59 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 11:29:55 hmm. 11:30:42 * Zaba wonders what to do with _plan_4 11:36:19 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:37:20 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:34 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:43 ??cling 11:45:44 cling[1/1]: You're stuck to the wall. Works kind of like levitation. Can't cross a channel like this: #~@# 11:45:59 oh. 11:46:27 when i first saw this, i thought of stealth boni 11:49:40 should come with rShoe- 11:50:28 I second that 12:07:47 i saw somewhere a proposal to show item and spell letters in inventory and spell tabs (for keyboard-using tiles players) but i can't find it now 12:10:04 found it https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1836 12:12:14 !tell galehar how difficult it would be to implement the first part of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1836 ? (i'm one of those weird keyboard+tiles players) 12:12:15 ortoslon: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:16:00 kilobyte: remember the unicode combining character stuff i mentioned earlier? what would be your time estimate on how long it would take to make crawl able to understand them? 12:17:33 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 12:21:14 I _think_ all uses go through either drawing of view glyphs or through stringize_glyph(), so combining characters could be special-cased 12:21:32 it'd be quite a hack but might be manageable 12:23:04 i'd be willing to put a bounty towards it if you can find someone (doesn't have to be you) willing to code it... i think that it would be nice to have unicode-crawl be noticeably prettier than ascii-crawl, and that this would be a good step 12:26:06 the thing with combining characters is that they're not supposed to go alone but to be placed atop another glyph 12:26:20 which can just happen to be a space 12:27:01 ncurses does allow this, but support in various terminal emulators tends to be really bad 12:32:02 yeah, i'd really like to see two things: 1) support for including combining characters in a cset_unicode as long as there ends up being one non-combining to base it off of 2) support for displaying certain things as a combining character if normally they could only be represented with a brand, color, or by being hidden 12:32:52 and if it doesn't work in whatever terminal someone is using, they can just not use it :) 12:39:03 a full-blown support would be to allow an arbitrary string as long as its width is 1 12:39:35 ie, any regular glyph with an unlimited number of combining characters added to it 12:40:34 but it might be enough to allow combining characters to go alone (technically, on a space) or as brands 12:40:40 03zaba * r41a4db3df894 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: In _fixup_stone_stairs, don't place the missing staircases inside vaults. 12:50:08 someone on SA suggested anti-magic brand should have a chance to abjure, sounds reasonable 12:50:35 yeah 12:50:51 er, I misread that as "remove enchantments" 12:51:02 well it can do both 12:51:07 oh, another thing - it would be nice if there were separate glyphs for portals and shops, at least ones in LOS 12:51:30 for abjuring, not so sure... but at least for stuff that doesn't come from acts of god, yeah 12:51:49 portals and shops are already supported 12:51:58 it might to be do that by default, too 12:52:13 oh, with feature = you mean? 12:52:18 god minions arent supposed to be abjurable anyway 12:52:20 since in cset = they're both 'arch' 12:52:37 cset= is pretty limited, yeah 12:53:34 okay, enough fiddling with it for today, time to do *actual* work 12:53:57 actual crawl work, or *actual* work? 12:57:23 adding an item to the shopping list - and there are 2 identical items, it'll mark both items in the shop with $ ("on shopping list) - only one is on the shopping list though 13:16:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:12 kilobyte: actual actual work! just set up a github account 13:37:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:07 -!- Icelos has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:39 Shop/portal mimics change into "ASCII characters" when revealed (using DEC character set) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3043) by Nick S 14:31:18 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:28 evenings 14:33:08 Zaba: ouch, that minmay temple entry bug escaped me. Sorry and thanks! 14:39:45 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:04:11 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:18 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:11 dooh... 16:11:34 mad chavelier vault is not really funny 16:13:44 such vaults make people just not enter such things anymore... 16:14:43 green draconian's mutation screen doesn't tell that they get clarity 16:16:24 they get clarity? 16:16:35 they're immune to their breath because of rpois 16:18:59 green dracs don't have clarity 16:21:14 hmm 16:21:47 ah, ashenzari 16:22:10 sorry, i stared at my equipment 16:34:04 !learn add bad_ideas a vault where a bunch of elephants shove you into oklobs' view 16:34:05 bad ideas[2647/2647]: a vault where a bunch of elephants shove you into oklobs' view 16:41:46 morning 16:46:34 kilobyte: what did you think of spriggan berserkers only calling allies once they'd berserked? 16:49:03 moin due 16:49:15 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:32 evening 16:49:33 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:49:38 !messages 16:49:38 (1/1) ortoslon said (4h 37m 23s ago): how difficult it would be to implement the first part of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1836 ? (i'm one of those weird keyboard+tiles players) 16:49:39 hi galehar, Napkin 16:50:12 did I fix gloom clouds? 16:50:23 i'm going to add them to the tower os ilence :D 16:51:01 are they used somewhere already? 16:51:28 gloom clouds? 16:51:33 yes, they're in a couple of the sprint maps 16:51:54 when I added turbulance to clouds in tiles, the gloom cloud tile didn't looked like a cloud at all 16:52:35 oh, ew, tiles, ;) 16:52:51 yeah, it's supposed to be a sort of whispy magenta overlay. 16:53:30 ok, so it's fine 16:53:53 I should have added turbulence to it too then 16:55:20 whereas now it just looks like a solid magenta overlay which is ugly :( 16:55:40 s/turbulence/disturbance/ 16:57:18 when were gloom clouds added? And what's to fix about them (appart from tiles)? 16:58:12 due: no bros until the first berserk expires was dpeg's suggestion... it seems good balance-wise, but might be somewhat hard to explain. The alternative, Eronarn(?)'s idea is to simply limit to just one bro at a time but without ties to berserk. 16:58:45 of course, either variant would come with a significant boost in melee power... berserkers are not supposed to be wimps with summons 16:59:41 kilobyte: hm 16:59:49 kilobyte: why do we have to explain it? 16:59:58 they're berserkers; they're crazy. 17:02:19 good point 17:05:12 they're more likely to go berserk and rush into the battle without thinking to call for brothers first 17:11:56 my thought on the matter: they want to go into battle with their buddies, but if they're berserk, they're too focused on fighting to do anything else. so, summon if alone; if not alone, berserk; if berserked, attack 17:17:31 Eronarn: we don't care about the reasons, we care about the fact that BIA for monsters is scarily unbalanced. 17:24:18 berserk stone giants and iron trolls are completely absurd, even one 17:24:21 and monster berserk lasts forever 17:24:38 even if they could only summon one, they would be more dangerous than an ancient lich 17:25:11 syllogism: agree 17:25:36 I think it should be wieghted towwards the lower end: trolls, hill giants, ogres. 17:26:07 perhaps capped somewhere, too? 17:26:29 Younger Brothers in Arms 17:28:52 berserk iron troll is speed 14 and does 1d52, 1d37, 1d37 damage per turn 17:28:53 or so 17:29:00 cheers 17:29:33 sounds like a problem with monster berserk 17:29:34 ortoslon: awesome idea! 17:29:41 and monster might 17:29:53 why doesn't monster might work like player might, anyway 17:29:59 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:12 because asymmetry is a good thing, or something 17:30:35 I'm curious as to the actual reason, though 17:31:15 have to leave now, though, so if anyone says, I won't be able to answer anytime soon 17:31:19 Usually they're identical to start with and the player version gets nerfed to infinity 17:31:31 But the monster version is ignored for whatever reasons. 17:33:16 it is a lot harder to balance monsters and players at the same time 17:33:27 yeah 17:33:35 it's easier to balance player, especially when player is too easy. 17:33:41 dpeg: did you see my tower of silence vault? 17:35:03 due: not yet 17:35:57 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:59 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:31 i'm going to add gloom clouds :) 17:43:14 cool! 17:43:46 excellent, mimic glyph fix done 17:46:40 Cat tile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3044) by Denzi 17:47:00 03due * rce45d4ab1797 10/crawl-ref/source/showsymb.cc: Resolve #3043: feature mimic glyph changes. 17:47:24 !!! <3 denzi 17:48:10 :3 17:49:11 dpeg: Okay, I'm goin gto go ahead and implement no-brothers-before-first-berserk for monsters, and reduce frequency of super-killer iron trolls. 17:49:37 :-O 17:50:20 i don't even remember the last time i managed to summon an iron troll :D 17:51:01 due: you rock! (mimic glyph) 17:51:14 due: sounds okay 17:51:28 I keep dying to unnecessary mistakes in Spring :( 17:53:10 :( poor dpeg 17:53:23 ew 17:53:27 these monster versions are implementted weirdly 17:54:11 we really really really need to refactor monster casting out of YE BIGGE SWITCHE STATEMETE. 17:54:29 hehe 17:54:58 @??bear 17:54:59 bear (07U) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 22-40 | AC/EV: 4/4 | Damage: 10, 6, 6 | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 199 | Sp: berserker rage. 17:56:06 hm 17:56:35 dpeg: for spriggan berserkers, we could limit them to getting bears, which would tie in nicely with spriggan druids summoning bears. what do you think? 17:57:13 awesome idea 17:57:16 kilobyte? 17:57:34 if we split it, that means we can give deep dwarves deep trolls! 17:58:22 are spriggan berserkers so much stronger? 17:58:57 Napkin: spriggan berserkers are scary; put a berserk iron troll in the room with them... 18:00:14 !seen kilobyte 18:00:15 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Dec 25 23:02:19 2010 UTC (57m 55s ago) saying good point on ##crawl-dev. 18:00:40 DD berserkers were meant for a much earlier branch 18:01:28 well, I've set it up so we can tweak the monster sets per-caster. 18:01:54 the Dwarf Halls are pretty dead, the only issue for now is what to do with the vaults 18:02:12 I have a vague idea but didn't really get around to it 18:03:35 kilobyte: no time pressure on that one 18:03:43 use them to spice up late D? 18:03:45 the idea of a dwarf branch will come up time and again 18:04:04 kilobyte: what do you think of restricting spriggan berserkers to bears? 18:05:14 redundant with druids 18:05:15 @?? polar bear 18:05:16 polar bear (16U) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 36-54 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Damage: 20, 5, 5 | Flags: amphibious, !sil | Res: 06magic(28), 02cold | XP: 295 | Sp: berserker rage. 18:05:31 kilobyte: I thought more complimentary to druids. 18:05:40 It keeps the theme of bears/forest/Spriggan. 18:05:58 yes 18:06:12 druids: calm bears, berserkers: mad bears 18:06:32 on the other hand, that monster was never planned, and came in only because of some discussion and a tile 18:06:35 mostly tile 18:07:07 so it might be differentiated from DDBe by something other than base race, difficulty and EV-vs-AC 18:07:12 I just died to a spriggan berserker :) 18:07:20 dpeg: <3 18:07:33 zotdef? 18:07:41 Hm. 18:07:48 Why don't we have MONS_TWO_HEADER_OGREs? 18:08:07 they're excellent at football! 18:08:18 kilobyte: did you see denzi's cat tiles? 18:09:33 kilobyte: nothing else 18:09:55 I've been killing about fifty TrHu today :) 18:10:00 kilobyte, dpeg, you mean Sprint? 18:10:00 due: oooh... some that don't come from NetHack tilesets! 18:10:10 kilobyte: I really like the top-left one, it's kinda panther-esque. 18:10:12 doh, Sprint 4 18:10:16 I'm not sure what felids are supposed to look like though. 18:10:25 or do we get spriggans in... ah. 18:10:50 I'd guess real cats... they're augmented mentally but not physically 18:11:06 Then I vote for the top-left one. 18:11:07 even if their size was increased, but that still matches bigger races 18:11:23 the others are too cuddly <3 18:11:30 there's no reason to not allow ALL of them 18:11:34 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=1280&type=bug 18:11:38 true. 18:12:04 well, 2nd one in 2nd row sucks like a hell 18:12:04 !lg * max=sc game=fedhas 18:12:04 Unknown selector: game 18:12:29 kilobyte: i want to cudle them all up and make cooing noises. 18:12:30 !hs * sprint map=~fedhas 18:12:30 483. hyperbolic the Sorcerer (L13 DEIE), worshipper of Makhleb, blasted by a Green Death (blast of poison) in Sprint (Sprint IV: "Fedhas' Mad Dash") on 2010-12-25, with 32159 points after 4143 turns and 0:35:03. 18:12:55 syllogism: thanks. I have to try harder. Lugonites tomorrow :) 18:13:46 oops 18:14:05 different tiles for different lives :) 18:14:13 when using a props flag to tag monsters who've been berserk, it helps to spell it right across files :) 18:14:18 (this is jpeg's idea who is in this room) 18:14:26 hi jpeg! 18:14:36 no no, she is in bed 18:14:42 still talking, though 18:14:47 oh, dpeg, if jpeg is there, can you ask if feature mimics have mouths or if i need to do them too? 18:15:29 due: there is a mimic overlay, which has a mouth 18:15:40 ahh, applied to all mimics? excellent 18:15:40 used to be a shark maw 18:16:03 i asked coolie to make a mouth overlay :) 18:16:08 just wasn't sure if it had been used yet 18:16:49 jpeg just reminded me: would anyone mind if I hand out the demigod idea (abstract worshippers) as an implementable? 18:17:11 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: disconnect] 18:17:16 dpeg: anything to make them interesting would be fine, I think 18:18:08 I just want to give devs a quick opportunity to ask or interject 18:18:34 I'm cool with it 18:19:44 Trust me, it'll be okay. Not much gameplay change (but oppportunity for a little additional loot) but heaps of flavour. 18:20:00 also, there is an fully implicit backstory about how religions work 18:21:07 ! 18:21:12 Someone submitted a bog mummy tile already, omg! 18:21:33 just remember to optipng and avnpng -z -4 it before submitting 18:21:47 always a few hundred bytes per tile saved 18:21:51 Bog mummy tile candidate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3045) by Curio 18:22:00 kilobyte: Oh, I think I failed to do that on something then. 18:22:22 no big loss, it's hardly ever a big difference 18:22:55 due: is this vampire unique already planned? 18:23:36 dpeg: We're at a bit of a loss; someone suggested basing it on Elizabeth Bethory, but she's a bit too demure for my tastes. 18:24:06 recompressing tiles AFTER the initial commit is counterproductive -- since we keep the history, we end up taking space for both versions, reducing just source tarballs hardly anyone uses 18:24:09 dpeg: Mu linked to something about Jure Grando, one of the earliest historical accounts of a vampire (1600s), which I might use. 18:24:17 kilobyte: ah, blast; sorry, then! 18:25:03 dpeg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jure_Grando 18:26:14 due: no time, I am just writing the DG implementable 18:26:18 okay :) 18:26:28 dpeg: it's 1600s, early enough? 18:26:35 but going with with pre-Stoker stuff is pure <3 18:26:47 of course 18:26:49 2010 - 300 = 1710 :p 18:26:50 I will mention one idea I just had. 18:27:03 at the very least I'd base it off Carmilla; Stoker is passe and boring 18:27:27 (just joking about being strict) 18:27:34 kilobyte: <3. 18:27:52 Hm, apparently "Jure" is similar to George, Jorge, Yuri, Giorgio, etec. 18:28:00 I'm so tempted to use "Yuri". 18:28:02 heck, we might add "grass mud horse" monster for Chinese players, even though that myth is barely 3 years old :p 18:28:23 kilobyte: grass mud horse? 18:28:50 yeah, English speakers would mispronounce the 'J' in his name 18:29:14 Grando died 1656 :) 18:29:27 "Yuri", "Yure" or "Iuri"/"Iure". 18:29:29 allegedly 18:29:34 sure sure 18:29:50 "Iure" would be cool because people would pronounce it like Yure, but my Latin roots would go yayI=J<3. 18:31:06 03due * r40d06d4e0f47 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc spl-summoning.cc spl-summoning.h): Delay monster-BiA until after first berserk; BiA sets. 18:33:50 -!- Noeda has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:11 lg, r, lc, w, lb, lm, c, lg,y, g, lr, b. 18:36:30 magenta is the only one unused... 18:37:01 What glyph would a firecrab go on? 's'? It would have to be magenta. 18:37:30 hm, magenta s looks okay. 18:38:23 due is the man of the new monsters. Tileless new creatures pave his way :) 18:38:36 dpeg: :D 18:38:50 dpeg: I got the ok for this bunch of monsters months back ;) 18:39:10 -!- ortoslon has quit [*.net *.split] 18:39:10 -!- Icelos has quit [*.net *.split] 18:39:10 -!- blackpenguin has quit [*.net *.split] 18:39:10 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 18:40:39 did the holy branch monsters ever get finished 18:41:25 syllogism: they're on my list :) 18:43:36 -!- Lollipop has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:49 Okaay. 18:45:01 I'm going to make giant mites magenta so I can put firecrabs on LIGHTRED. 18:45:13 Because if I put firecrabs on light red people will go "OMG OMG they will be mistaken for giant mites!" 18:45:28 Actually, we should probablyput mites on *. 18:45:46 Maybe not. hm. 18:47:10 crabs on t? 18:47:19 st_: hm, or that. 18:47:28 Turtles, crabs... makes sense! 18:48:52 dolorous didn't change oklob colours yet. Let's hope he'll go for it after the break. 18:50:47 -!- Lollipop_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:26 what's wrong with oklob colours? 18:53:29 -!- Lollipop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:54:30 due: we now have oklob plants and oklob saplings, sitting at lightgreen 'P' and 'p'. 18:54:57 dolorous rightly points out that 'p' is used for ghost-like stuff and should keep doing so. 18:55:29 He suggests to make oklobs cyan 'P', which is pretty reasonable. Nobody replied, but then I did, and I approved of this idea. 18:55:38 dpeg: like acid blobs! 18:57:02 Demigods: abstract worshippers (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3046) by dpeg 18:57:26 Eronarn: yes 18:58:13 I recall the days when my ideas to give oklobs a colour different from ordinary plants' green was rejected twice a year. :) 18:58:27 :) 18:58:33 yes, saplings should move off 'p'. 19:01:14 yes, will come 19:01:41 I can do it today if I have time 19:01:51 don't 19:01:57 let dolorous do it, please 19:02:40 It is his idea, and I don't want him to feel pushed. (As in: if he does not deliver immediately, someone else will code it.) 19:03:32 okay 19:04:18 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3045#c9899 19:04:21 this comment makes me sad :( 19:04:30 how have people never heard of bog mummies before/ 19:05:00 due: the one by the artistß 19:05:54 due: dominions 3 has bog mummies! 19:05:59 dpeg: yeah 19:06:19 dragons in it take on human form; the dracolich takes on bog mummy form 19:06:21 dpeg: it'sbasically "I've never heard of bog mummies but I disagree because people will not know what on earth they are if they don't have bandages". 19:07:58 which... defeats the whole point of my creating them in the first place as firstly an interesting monster, but also a cool historical aside. 19:10:01 due: don't be too aggravated, it is a normal reaction. 19:10:28 dpeg: I am not aggravated, just sad for the world. 19:10:36 It must be so boring to be normal :( 19:11:50 hm. Fire drake v hill giant: fire drake wins. 19:11:55 Erm, fire crab, rather. 19:12:17 due: crab > giant might be a tad unexpected :) 19:12:33 yes 19:12:37 hence I am tweaking 19:12:46 they breathe fire clouds :) 19:13:34 hm 19:13:38 due: just replied to the towers... feel free to trash the idea, it is pretty wild. 19:14:02 3d16 is... pretty massive. 19:14:17 that's 48 max for a HD2 monster, aargh. 19:14:28 2d8 is so much more acceptable, I think. 19:15:03 dpeg: The "xxxxx" at the boundary: you mean the large chunk on the right side of the map? 19:15:33 I like both ideas! 19:15:56 yes 19:16:05 -!- Lollipop_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:07 *blush* :) 19:16:20 dpeg: Actually, the "xxx" is necessary to get it to place exactly how I want it to place. 19:16:31 due: ah, ignore that comment then. 19:16:58 it means that the only place you can get "near" to it is via the top or by digging 19:17:06 it serves to isolate it in the level map (which makes it look cool) 19:17:26 and to prevent the silent spectre's auras from affecting too wide an area; it's fine out the front, but weird as hell out the sides. 19:17:35 really good points 19:17:53 This is something I learned from (c)rpg's, not that I played any apart from Wizardry 7/8: yes/no questions serve better to define role and alignment than many stats 19:19:49 wizardry <3 19:19:49 ... huh 19:20:08 draconians nad dragons won't use breath weapons on foes if they can't see you 19:20:44 syllogism: some problems in design, but awesome storylines. 19:21:14 ... monsters with beam weapon abilities only use them on the plkayer. how odd. 19:22:23 or I don't understand the code. 19:29:02 nights 19:32:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:35:09 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:40:25 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:42:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:45:46 Oh, Towers of Silence should place in Crypt, too. 20:14:36 I'm slightly scared to commit this without a crab tile :) 20:26:06 make a tile that's the glyph with huge claws coming out of it 20:26:14 st_: <3 20:39:16 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:58 Hm, can we steal tiles from Slash'EM? 21:24:56 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:59 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:08 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 22:09:44 03due * r8807aa8831f4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 4 dirs): New monster: fire crab. 22:12:50 There's good eating on one of those 22:12:58 Crabs are delicious <3 22:13:11 need to add in butter as a food item! 22:13:14 uhhh 22:13:19 I'm looking at the diff and 22:13:26 in mons_standard_rare 22:13:31 + case MONS_FIRECRAP: 22:13:35 Hahahahahaha 22:13:38 monky: ... whhoops. 22:14:20 03due * raaab79243825 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Fix compile (monky). 22:14:41 I see due's right brain is busy trying to sabotage his left brain's fire crabs 22:15:07 Apparently I didn't actually compile this ,wtf? 22:18:21 !lg * sprint win map=~fedhas 22:18:22 No games for * (win map=~fedhas). 22:18:32 !lg * sprint win map=~fedhas s=name 22:18:33 No games for * (win map=~fedhas) 22:18:34 elliptic got the orb 22:18:38 but then died 22:18:56 mmm, fire carbs 22:19:03 (loafy!) 22:19:46 03due * r689475597b69 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Actually fix compile. 22:20:55 re Slash'EM, I think Slash'EM tiles may be under a different license from Slash'EM code proper. 22:22:37 Also Slash'EM needs to stop using white text on black background :( 22:22:43 For the homepage, I mean 22:23:15 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:49 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:49 -!- ahpla has quit [*.net *.split] 22:35:49 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:49 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 22:54:59 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:23 i thought clarity protected against entrancing