00:11:46 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:18 03Keskitalo * r3304bd475874 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/IRC.txt: Fix typos. 00:37:35 -!- Guest99881 is now known as Twilight 00:37:39 -!- Twilight is now known as Twilight13 00:37:59 From the brainstorm::balance section of the wiki: 00:38:02 This is wrong. Using leather armor has the advantage of training your armor skill. Also, there has been recently a change to armor enchantment that greatly nerf low AC armor. Now, you can't enchant an armor higher than its base AC. — galehar 2010-10-30 13:53 00:38:24 Has the above mentioned change to armour enchanting actually been made? 00:39:01 I just tried it in wizard mode and was able to enchant robes up to above +5 at least, but I am using a trunk version a few weeks old. 00:41:55 From my memory, it's only been discussed (and approved) ... let me check, I have fresh build. 00:42:22 Yeah, can enchant a robe over +2. 00:42:38 OK, so approved, but not implemented yet, then? 00:42:49 Yeah. 00:43:05 By approved I mean "the general consensus seems to be let's do it" :) 00:43:33 Heh, of course. OK, thanks for answering! 00:44:58 No problem! 01:01:36 03greensnark * r75777448f484 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h describe.cc): Make monster tracers round up average expected damage so that monsters like oklob plants will use ranged attacks on high-AC targets. 01:01:48 03greensnark * r8d63f3e21c60 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Fix friendly orange statues being completely useless. 01:10:00 greensnark activity <3 01:10:19 I watched a few games of ZotDef yesterday :) 01:15:02 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-3644-g8d63f3e (31.16) 01:34:56 Henry Cipolla is not a devteam member, right? (looking at the wiki page) 01:36:51 henryci? 01:38:09 Yeah. 01:47:09 03chriscampbell89 * r5ed8361ccacf 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Buff Static Discharge 01:47:10 03greensnark * r7ea81954e991 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Add MarvinPA to credits for static discharge patch. 01:47:55 Oh, that sounds good already! 01:51:38 !tell kilobyte Nice work on the new save format 01:51:38 greensnark: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:01:52 Ragdoll (L3 KoSt) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:04:05 Ragdoll (L3 KoSt) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:05:15 Aha :P 02:05:27 Ragdoll (L2 KoSt) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:07:11 03greensnark * re4f146ad927e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-shoals.cc dgn-shoals.h dungeon.cc): [2940] Fix Shoals plants being placed before minvaults. 02:10:20 Ragdoll (L2 KoSt) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:10:21 greensnark: what's your favorite feature of it? 02:11:06 omil (L23 HEAE) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (Elf:4) 02:11:55 New ways to splat, I bet! 02:12:36 Keskitalo: :p I mean save format 02:12:44 Oh, hehe. 02:13:51 03Keskitalo * r0160427a2e4c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Recolour greater nagas to light magenta. Yellow made them not stand out from Snake walls. (#2480) 02:14:01 03Keskitalo * r45ab4f241c98 10/crawl-ref/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref 02:14:10 Oops, that again. 02:14:16 omil (L23 HEAE) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (Elf:6) 02:14:40 I guess naga mages could be recoloured magenta for a sort of consistency. 02:14:50 why? 02:15:05 they're strictly weaker versions of greater nagas 02:15:14 03greensnark * r621b4a773a6b 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Fix beam tracer assert when casting mephitic cloud (oops) (Ragdoll). 02:15:15 they should be dark red, since the latter are light red 02:15:25 sorear: Oooh no they aren't. :P 02:15:27 Ragdoll (L3 DrSt) ASSERT(0 <= postac && postac <= preac && 0 <= final && (preac > 0 || final == 0)) in 'beam.cc' at line 3853 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:15:35 Long time since you played (Snake), no? 02:15:46 not that long 02:15:55 but I tend not to let either cast much :p 02:16:09 @?? naga mage 02:16:09 naga mage (05N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 17 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(56), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 355 | Sp: b.venom (3d12), mystic blast (3d13), haste, poison arrow (3d14), teleport other, teleport self. 02:16:13 @?? greater naga 02:16:14 greater naga (08N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 63-102 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1683 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, teleport self. 02:16:27 I mean, the glyph colour, it was changed in September. Actually, I haven't gotten to Snake after that either. 02:16:47 My fridge here at work is like Aladin's cave of wonders. I just found vegan chocolate tim-tam-esque biccies. 02:16:56 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-3650-g621b4a7 (31.16) 02:17:07 Cookie-due! 02:27:28 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:44:24 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:45 greensnark, is there any reason why bounds checks are harmful for travel grid? 02:45:11 No particular reason 02:47:37 greensnark: What's your favorite thing about kilobyte's saver? 02:48:06 sorear: One small file instead of dozens 02:49:32 greensnark, I've been pondering rewriting spotty_level in lua 02:50:24 greensnark, and the problem is, it can be passed different parameters (number of iterations, and whether it should build a boxy level). So the two questions arise: Is it really worth rewriting it in lua, and, is it possible to pass parameters to lua layout builders? 02:51:05 In general I don't think there's much point in rewriting very loop heavy stuff into Lua 02:51:14 It's better to keep the low-level building blocks in C++ for speed 02:51:17 And use Lua as glue 02:52:11 greensnark, it could use dgn.spotty_map 02:52:27 Zaba: Sure 02:52:38 which would do all the heavy looping stuff 02:52:40 You could make it a Lua layout that uses the C++ function 02:52:47 Yes, why not 02:53:04 greensnark, that's the plan, but the problem is, how to pass it the number of iterations and boxiness? 02:54:39 greensnark, I've noticed some dgn_map_parameters thing, but that seems to be never used. What is it? 03:00:06 and could it be useful for this? Or is there some other way? 03:13:39 It's too painful to use for simple parameter passing 03:13:44 I wouldn't bother 03:39:51 Any reason Zot Defence doesn't start you on the orb 03:39:57 Or at least near the orb 03:45:47 it would be nice if everything was mapped, too 03:47:54 monky: including the gear caches, right? 03:47:54 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:49:19 it might be nice to hide the identities of the items, if that's practical without being spoilery, to avoid potential for scumming 03:49:26 choice of map would be nice too 03:50:40 by "identities" do you mean type/appearance? 03:50:52 yes 03:51:05 if so, people would come there to take a look 03:51:26 unless we remove the glass 03:51:36 yes, I meant something more like that 03:52:46 perhaps only create (and reveal) them upon acquiring the controlled teleport ability, if at all possible 03:54:13 you can teleport earlier if you're a warper, an unique got a wand of teleportation, you got abyssed and got some swag, you get the Warpwright card or teleportitis 03:54:48 is that desirable? 03:55:31 BTW, Abyss is the only place where you can get most of consummables (bazaars apart -- with their ridiculous cost of 4 levels for some unknown shops) 03:58:33 Do you get gold to spend in bazaars? 03:59:47 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:12 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:17 you need to acquire it separately 04:06:39 for the cost of two levels 04:07:04 currently, you can get abyssed and collect some gold there, though 04:46:14 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:09 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 04:52:33 why is my emacs last lines offscreen on ubuntu netbook edition :( 04:56:55 Ragdoll (L7 MuPr) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 04:58:03 felirx: 'cos emacs sucks? ;) 04:58:28 boo! 04:59:05 vim in dvorak is horrid 04:59:26 I woiuld have to go and remap everything for them to make sense 04:59:36 erm 04:59:40 there's a dvorak mode 05:00:00 or at least I've seen it somewhere 05:00:17 http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Change_cursor_movement_keys_for_Dvorak_layout 05:03:06 * greensnark slaps due with a trout. 05:03:39 Zot Defence is horribly addictive 05:03:44 It reminds me of herb farming in Adom 05:03:56 Was it won yet? 05:04:10 Don't think so 05:04:16 !lg * zotdef win 05:04:17 No games for * (win). 05:04:20 Is there a winning condition? :) 05:04:27 Yes, get 15 runes and leave with orb 05:04:36 nice 05:04:38 !hs * zotdef 05:04:38 1518. Ereshkigal the Prestidigitator (L19 FeMo), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, rotted away on D:1 (zotvault) on 2010-12-07, with 238506 points after 13191 turns and 2:38:59. 05:04:45 I think that's Mu 05:05:05 I vote we attribute the rotting damage to the thing sitting on the Orb 05:05:07 kilobyte: What say 05:05:20 Because right now the ZotDef killer field is next to useless 05:05:24 !lg * zotdef s=killer 05:05:24 1518 games for *: 800x , 174x a goblin, 82x a giant cockroach, 63x a giant newt, 48x an ooze, 15x a killer bee, 15x a small snake, 13x a kobold, 11x giant spore, 9x a rat, 7x a giant bat, 7x an orc priest, 6x an orc, 6x a green rat, 5x an oklob sapling, 4x an agate snail, 3x Sigmund, 3x an iguana, 3x a giant toad, 2x a giant frog, 2x a worm, 2x Gorg the orc warrior, 2x an ufetubus, 2x Hawl the orc... 05:05:50 sounds like a good idea 05:06:02 or maybe just "the orb" 05:06:19 certainly, anything but an empty string 05:06:39 greensnark: not quite useless 05:07:06 Maybe use ikiller for the killer in orb rot cases 05:07:13 Btw, is the DD hp rot bug fixed? 05:08:07 oh, that's probably the best idea 05:08:18 both killer and ikiller would be meaningful 05:08:36 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:11:07 kilobyte: Any obvious problems if we start the player just above the Orb? 05:11:33 can't think of any 05:11:53 and indeed, every game you just go there first 05:12:24 since even in the maps with a funnel you can't block it at first 05:12:36 Yes, and uh, my awesome ZotDef skills mean I start new games rather often 05:12:46 yeah 05:13:19 and the broken map (the one with diamond-shaped Orb chamber) requires start scumming 05:14:19 the other two give you a chance since there is a place where you can stand and fight... that one would require you to be in two places at once, and oklobs can do the job only as long as everything is going fine 05:14:37 you don't get told that the second side has been overran 05:15:41 the two doable maps differ quite a bit, but neither seems unacceptable to me 05:15:55 kilobyte: I saw elliptic scum for a particular map yesterday (the classical layout). 05:16:14 We should just let the player choose the map, nae? 05:16:20 Like Sprint! 05:16:24 He was also using a number of other highly questionable methods, seemingly without the trace of a doubt. 05:16:49 one with the pillars doesn't let you kill stuff as soon as they spawn, but on the other hand there is just one chokepoint rather than two -- on the classical map monsters push towards two exits and you'd have to defend both 05:17:00 you mean the 700 plants bug? 05:17:15 that's one begging for an answer (I saw you did something about it :) 05:17:33 but he told me that there's a bug where monsters do nothing for one or two turns after being spawned 05:17:34 kilobyte fixed the 700 plants thing 05:17:46 yes, prices should increase in some way 05:17:53 Monsters always spend one turn practising their turnip skills after they appear 05:17:55 I want plants in lava. 05:18:34 I did a nice solution that sadly is still exploitable with enough effort, and a separate harsh hard cap 05:18:50 kilobyte: nice solution = increasing costs? 05:18:59 I hope this is ok, but you might suggest something better 05:19:01 Damn, I've worked hard today. I did two commits; documentation typo fix and greater naga colouring from yellow to light magenta. Now I can go back to Dwarf Fortress in peace. 05:19:02 yeah 05:19:15 Keskitalo: :p 05:19:55 Keskitalo: you play DF? Your soul is already tainted :( 05:19:58 It's good for vault designing skills. O-:) 05:20:20 dpeg: Oh yes, I was dry for two years. Succumbed back again. 05:20:22 But where are the vaults? 05:20:45 (thinksofsomethingtochangethesubject) 05:20:56 speaking of Dwarf... I made a proper set of ten floor tiles (floor_limestone) because it seemed needed there, but then I realized blue_anna just made a mistake when using existing floor_sandstone 05:21:08 so you might want to reuse that tile set somewhere 05:21:19 I'll take a look.. 05:22:05 Oh, that looks nice. 05:22:14 quite bright, but seem to look nice, at least with some walls (not Tomb ones, though) 05:25:20 heh... we have sand_stone and sandstone which don't resemble each other the slightest 05:26:40 sand with rare pebbles vs brownish rock 05:28:50 greensnark: I will make a des file which contains the small flavour vaults to be used multiply. Will you have a look whenever I commit that? (I am testing, of course, but you know the fermenting innards.) 05:29:15 Sure 05:29:54 Thank you 05:41:54 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:26 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:36 Damn, this new ZotDef promises to be a timesink unless I exercise iron self restraint 05:55:54 At least with the old one the game would crash when it thought you'd wasted too much time playing it 05:56:07 Which I thought was very tactful and considerate of it 05:56:23 We need a ZotDef ghost wave 05:57:42 static discharge buff <3 06:08:06 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:09:45 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:55 hm 06:15:38 greensnark, in theory, spotty_level could be just turned into two different lua layouts, for the two different uses of spotty_level in the code 06:17:28 greensnark, then no parameter passing would be needed 06:19:07 greensnark, or.. well.. that'd require a lua interface to at_branch_bottom() to work fine 06:24:58 I still wonder how the hell elliptic could get a spriggan berserker among monsters... no wave can spawn them, neither can any branch's mon-pick 06:25:33 polymorphing? 06:26:40 he got one directly from the stairs, it was the only monster at the moment 06:26:51 yeah, I witnessed this 06:30:20 Ragdoll (L12 MuPr) ASSERT(false) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 1379 failed. (D:1 (ZotDef)) 06:31:20 how nice 06:35:14 kilobyte: Might be related to that Ragdoll assert :P 06:43:15 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:14 Ragdoll (L7 MuPr) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 07:03:40 Ragdoll (L7 MuPr) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 07:05:32 Ragdoll (L7 MuPr) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 07:08:12 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:31 greensnark, hmm.. so I've converted spotty_level to two lua layouts as described above, but there's a little problem 07:32:20 greensnark, namely, the fact _build_postvault_level will, with a 50% chance, add a full set of escape hatches to the level. I wonder, is that a problem? 07:41:56 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:40 Zaba: Does build_postvault_level run for layouts 07:45:48 It doesn't sound like it should run for layout vaults 07:46:17 03zaba * r04e3b36f1e89 10/crawl-ref/source/l_you.cc: Add lua bindings for at_branch_bottom. 07:46:18 Oh right, you mean the escape hatches thing 07:46:19 03zaba * rb2dfd19ccbf2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/layout.des dungeon.cc dungeon.h): Convert spotty_level into two lua layouts, caves and spotty. 07:46:26 greensnark, the only thing it does for layout levels is call dgn_place_stone_stairs 07:46:45 I mean layout vaults 07:46:46 Maybe add a tag like "no_hatches_thanks" to turn off helpful escape hatches 07:51:49 !lg * zotdef win 07:51:49 No games for * (win). 07:51:53 !hs * zotdef 07:51:54 1548. Ereshkigal the Prestidigitator (L19 FeMo), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, rotted away on D:1 (zotvault) on 2010-12-07, with 238506 points after 13191 turns and 2:38:59. 08:14:23 XL 27, three runes, and finally an ego robe (rC!!!!1!) on D:24. Thanks to the wight who donated it. 08:16:32 dpeg: Play some zotdef 08:16:43 hmm 08:17:31 greensnark, is there some function like dungeon.cc:count_neighbours, but which does not consider diagonal neighbours? 08:22:57 03kilobyte * r7c90fac54862 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: ZotDef: save the game every time a boss is spawned. 08:23:00 03kilobyte * r683e4db797fa 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Fix DDs not dying to rot. 08:23:05 03kilobyte * r86c9707e4a3c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dbg-asrt.cc zotdef.cc zotdef.h): Dump the ZotDef wave's table during a crash. 08:23:06 03kilobyte * r4afa00f74bb1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h tag-version.h tags.cc zotdef.cc): Store the wave's name as well. 08:23:56 beh, thanks to work it took me a while to find the cause of the crashes (but oh well, I'm supposed to be working, not hacking Crawl :p) 08:24:00 not fixed yet 08:24:20 so let's think: what should be the rule for monsters allowed for the "absolutely random" wave? 08:24:44 currently only uniques and stationary ones are forbidden 08:25:30 kilobyte: increased change for shifters? 08:26:49 I mean, which monsters should be absolutely forbidden 08:27:28 some will cause crashes, like tentacle segments or the like 08:27:42 currently even test spawners and holies are allowed 08:29:11 I guess I'll have to add flags for all not yet coded stuff 08:29:36 M_NO_POLY_TO seems tempting to forbid -- for some reason it includes orb guardians, do you have an idea why? 08:29:53 also, should monster demonspawn, demigods, felids and halflings be allowed? 08:35:37 Orb guardians are probably supposed to be very special. 08:36:53 hmm, actually, in Zot Defense it's _you_ who are supposed to be one 08:37:50 greensnark, so.. what do you think of making travel_distance_grid_t a FixedArray? 08:38:09 If you want to 08:45:16 kilobyte: I'm planning to make the player spawn near the orb and some other minor fixes. You doing anything similar? Don't want to collide. 08:47:53 Interestingly, whacking keys to fsim makes it run faster. I think it practically freezes if you don't do that. 08:54:20 I reproduced ledtim's wizmode numbers on the defence page. Limiting the robe to +2 instead of +6 increases the average damage intake by about 0.4 for the EV character. 08:57:07 Which is about 10�%, which sounds nicely significant to me. 08:58:26 03kilobyte * rbbd3d1b6fcda 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: ZotDef: don't spawn dummy monsters, orb guardians nor test spawners. 08:58:27 03kilobyte * r3597e2506360 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-class-flags.h mon-data.h mon-place.cc zotdef.cc): A monster flag M_UNFINISHED, for non-dummies that should be never placed. 08:58:37 greensnark: pushed before fully testing so there will be no conflicts 08:58:57 how did those get spawned 08:59:15 did someone get a test spawner? :P 08:59:19 hrm, misdecribed the commit too -- but you can probably guess what I meant 08:59:39 syllogism: sadly, not yet. And if I recompile and they transfer, never. 09:01:01 -!- mruuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:16 kilobyte: Oh, I wasn't worried about conflicts, just wanted to check we're not hacking on the exact same things :) 09:01:39 that's kind of the definition of a conflict 09:01:58 Well, you can get merge conflicts if you touch the same file 09:02:08 Which I'm not worried about 09:02:45 -!- mruuuu has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:22 I'd have to edit the same place. 09:03:23 are the randomly named zotdef bosses, currently, just regular monsters? Seemed to be 09:04:58 They definitely look like regular monsters, but they should ideally be tougher than normal 09:06:22 they are chosen from a different set (even if they usually overlap), are likely to be replaced by uniques, and get *1.5 as much hp 09:06:57 oh, it's just that not-much times 1.5 isn't much 09:07:00 Can we give them other perks like more speed and more HD and attack damage 09:07:15 More attack damage may be tricky unless there's a way to override the base type there 09:07:28 But yeah, the named critters are not noticeably tougher at all 09:07:38 Maybe 3x the hp and we'd start to notice :P 09:07:44 Or 5x :P 09:07:47 except for early on, being chosen from another set is probably enough 09:08:30 but even at the start, they have a bigger depth 09:08:44 so you often get hounds or ants in the very first wave 09:09:01 ... or a bat, to be underwhelming 09:11:15 were there changes to vaults' layout? it feels as though each floor is two floors fudged together (lots of metal boxes and stone ones on top of each other) 09:12:19 maybe it's always been like that, but it seems very noticable this game 09:15:58 Zaba: ^^ 09:16:08 st_: Copy your save and report a bug? 09:16:20 st_, there were fixes, yes 09:16:24 There have been lots of changes to levelgen, things might be broken 09:16:45 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:04 st_, are you referring to the mixing of different wall materials, or the fact the rooms are in a messy layout? 09:19:07 st_, the former behaviour has been around for an eternity, but it has been broken (it could only change the material to rock wall). I have fixed it so it does what was originally intended. 09:19:28 st_, the latter I haven't really touched 09:23:41 03greensnark * r8aa439da66ac 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Don't show "Go fetch the orb" messages for Zot Defence. 09:23:42 03greensnark * r6b8eacdc3b7c 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't show debug messages for return value of Lua epilogues; epilogue return value is always ignored anyway. 09:24:13 it was probably the fact it was stone+metal that threw me then 09:25:20 st_, that's intended behaviour that was broken for an eternity ;> 09:25:47 special room placement in _roguey_level was, too 09:25:58 I have also fixed it, and it's quite noticeable :P 09:26:25 but it's prettier and looks much more natural 09:47:19 03greensnark * ra17fdea42d38 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: [zotdef] Don't explode if hostile plant lands on Orb (such as from attacking a friendly plant). Enjoy the rot. (Ragdoll) 09:59:51 Mumu (L8 FeFi) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 10:00:06 :| 10:00:15 the same? 10:00:49 i attacked my plant and it crashed 10:01:19 Was the plant sitting on the Orb? 10:01:24 If so it was that bug 10:01:48 oh didn't even notice that commit, yep that's what happened 10:02:31 Not that hte bugfix will make people who attack their Orbly plants happy :P 10:02:36 Because they'll start rotting :P 10:02:53 it was on red health i just wanted to replace it :3 10:03:42 i just thought though, what happens if you surround the orb with plants and then set them all hostile? 10:03:56 greensnark, wrt the helpless bug, I believe you need to add a default duration for ENCH_HELPLESS in mon_enchant::calc_duration in monster.cc 10:03:59 greensnark: not sure if that's a good idea... for example, that commit will bring 20-30 rot PER TURN 10:04:39 kilobyte: Alternative is to give them a fake speed of 10, or to not anger them 10:04:45 the monster behaviour is already changed to attack immobiles from their own side 10:05:11 Then we can just not anger the plant 10:05:31 Does Oki get angry if you hit a friendly plant? 10:07:19 he does 10:07:38 Could disable that for zero-exp monsters 10:09:05 or perhaps for speed zero ones, since they are those incapable of any action 10:11:30 Aren't they the same? 10:11:39 I think so 10:11:43 Other immobile monsters have a nonzero speed anyway, only the dodo types are speed 0 10:12:32 * greensnark is getting phone call after idiotic phone call about a design spec :( 10:13:03 say you're going agile! then you don't need design specs! 10:14:17 We have some very old fashioned architect types hereabouts 10:14:25 Including one with 20 years of C and C++ experience 10:14:46 Who is not happy unless you can print out a design spec and use the printout to kill someone 10:15:36 !lm * zotdef s=rune 10:15:36 85 milestones for *: 83x decaying, 2x found 2 decaying runes of Zot. 10:16:14 hehe 10:16:25 since "agile" is a buzzword synonym for "clusterfuck", I understand them well 10:17:01 oh yeah, I've seen a doubled rune once too 10:17:31 03kilobyte * r16d5140fc438 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Fix a clang's warning. 10:17:42 03kilobyte * r469821d9bcd2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Don't rot people almost instantly when accidentally hitting a plant on the orb. 10:18:42 well, most of the agile approaches work if you have good programmers. but as my old software engineering prof said: "I don't need a new methodology for good programmers. They get by by themselves. I need one for bad programmers." :-) 10:32:37 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-3663-g469821d (31.17) 10:33:45 03greensnark * r2621e14f4751 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: Set zotdef rune types correctly. 10:44:00 @??shedu 10:44:00 shedu (16H) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 19 | HD: 13 | Health: 91-130 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 23 | Flags: 08holy, fly | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison | XP: 3106. 10:44:08 greensnark, what are all those WEIGHT: 0 vaults in shoals.des? 10:44:20 @??spriggan berserker 10:44:20 spriggan berserker (04i) | Speed: 16 | HD: 12 | Health: 26-44 | AC/EV: 2/25 | Damage: 21 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(112) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1094 | Sp: brothers in arms, hand, berserker rage. 10:44:22 Zaba: obsolete crud 10:46:07 greensnark, can be removed? 10:46:21 Yes 10:46:35 or perhaps turned into regular random vaults 10:48:02 speed 19 on shedu? :| 10:48:48 03kilobyte * rfcef0bdb72e0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (variable/zotdef.des zotdef/zotdef.des): Move zotdef maps to a separate dir. 10:49:46 Eronarn: no code yet... there's no point in balancing them beforehand, so the numbers are determined by the method of rectal extraction 10:50:11 what's shedu, anyway 10:50:38 that's why I marked them "unfinished", as opposed to mostly working stuff with perhaps dubious balance but not broken outright 10:51:43 * Eronarn is of the opinion that too much crawl stuff is balanced by being mega-fast :P 10:51:53 Zaba: a babylonian kind of a winged centaur (lower half of a bull) 10:52:09 where will it appear in crawl? 10:52:28 when due gets to finish the holyhaul, or some of us helps 10:52:46 not when, but where, aside from zig 10:52:55 the idea is to have pairs of shedu, each one resurrecting the other if possible 10:53:03 ah 10:53:30 no idea really... ask dpeg, it's mostly his design 10:54:36 i thought there was a unique holy pan floor vaguely planned? 10:54:45 from the preliminary stats of every single of holyhaul monsters, it seems like something linked from hardest parts of Pan 10:54:56 oh god, pan 10:55:01 MarvinPA: that's one of the idea, yeah 10:55:17 portal vault would be good; as would more use of holy summons 10:55:40 it'd be cool if pan was a portal vault 10:55:51 Zaba: it is 10:55:59 well.. no 10:56:14 it'd be cool if pan wasn't a portal vault and zigs let you return to the same level and stuff :P 10:56:35 * kilobyte agrees with MarvinPA. 10:56:51 if lev-pand.cc's code was in lua and such 10:57:10 and it was handled as a portal vault instead of LEVEL_PANDEMONIUM 10:57:36 kilobyte: I didn't do the shedus, even if you keep saying so :) 10:58:03 Zaba: I am pondering scrapping the whole portal vault level_id code, it's one whole pile of crap 10:58:13 dpeg: at least the design document is written by you 10:58:19 MarvinPA: more importantly, monster that swallows you into a portal vault 10:58:26 especially, Zig code 10:58:46 kilobyte, maybe... I didn't look at those bits. 10:58:52 with depth being a crude lua hack rather than using the same code every other branch uses 10:58:53 also, i love the D&D shedu art: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50099.jpg 10:59:04 kilobyte, but current pan handling is godawful, too. 10:59:32 kilobyte, its monster generation takes a completely different code path from the rest of the game :P 10:59:44 kilobyte: that is true... but most of the idea are due's. 11:00:02 lev-pand.cc could be done by simple vaults... without even a single line of lua 11:00:06 Ziggurat is a pretty fragile hack, yes 11:00:15 I have this XL 27 necromantic Sp, and no trace of the draining spell :( 11:00:24 Eronarn: you should be rather looking at the babylonian art 11:00:35 Needs an overhaul to the dungeon code to handle depth in non-dungeon areas though 11:00:37 kilobyte, I include vault stuff in 'lua' :P 11:00:42 kilobyte: i know what they are historically, i just like that piece of art 11:00:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 11:01:12 Zaba: of course, I mean ones with no lua in the vault proper 11:01:38 my idea is to remove the level_type field, and have Zigs, Pan and the like as branches 11:02:12 Cerebov would be PLACE: Pan:1, Lom Lobon PLACE: Pan:2, etc. 11:02:23 kilobyte, umm, those are picked by tags 11:02:43 they have to be since there is only one Pan level 11:02:50 I don't know that we need to have multiple Pan levels 11:03:05 But apart from that it's a reasonable idea, just a lot of work :) 11:03:23 there's LEVEL_DUNGEON, LEVEL_LABYRINTH, LEVEL_ABYSS, LEVEL_PANDEMONIUM and LEVEL_PORTAL_VAULT 11:03:34 greensnark: I don't care really about changing the way Pan works, just about removing level_type 11:03:58 We still need a level stack though 11:04:01 Zaba: I'd have BRANCH_ZIGGURAT, BRANCH_ABYSS, BRANCH_WIZLAB, etc. 11:04:22 To track the player's return path if they go from Pan -> Ziggurat -> Bazaar etc 11:04:29 kilobyte, you'd have a separate branch type in C++ for every portal vault type? 11:04:54 should be able to define branches on the fly in the new scheme 11:05:02 yes 11:05:14 shouldn't have to hardcode all the portal vaults or anything like that, at least 11:05:33 greensnark: without more than one level per level_type!=LEVEL_DUNGEON, it's currently impossible... but if they would be regular branches, we could use subsequent depths for stacked levels 11:06:34 Zaba: I don't really care about separating wizlabs from baileys... just Ziggurats from ordinary ones. Having them separate would simplify ghosts and messaging, though. 11:06:45 Anyway, that's a major project that doesn't sufficiently interest me :) 11:06:54 Feel free to dive in :P 11:06:58 messaging is kind of broken currently... sometimes you get "Zig:1", sometimes "ziggurat", sometimes "Port" 11:07:27 kilobyte, I really don't like the idea of having that stuff hardcoded and listed in the enums and such, though. 11:08:11 Zaba: for ziggurats or just small portals? 11:08:36 for everything that right now is merrily not hardcoded :P 11:09:11 without enums, referring to different branches would be unwieldy 11:11:06 I'd say use enums for the current branches, but allow portal vaults to define new branches dynamically 11:11:28 greensnark, that's something I'd like 11:13:18 there's lots of special-casing for "Port", though 11:14:15 kilobyte: This cleanup will anyway involve ripping up about a million special cases, so why are you worried about a few for "Port" :P 11:14:56 kilobyte, making them special cases for BRANCH_ZIGGURAT and BRANCH_PORTAL_VAULT (or, worse, individual branches for all kinds of portal vaults) doesn't sound like a good plan, though 11:24:01 hm. I'd like to find out under what conditions map_feature_at gets used 11:25:56 apparently it's used in dgn.{points_connected,any_point_connected,has_exit_from} of the lua api... 11:26:20 03greensnark * r7c9b825f45cb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/zotdef/zotdef.des files.cc): Start Zot Defence characters near the Orb. 11:26:40 Also hurray for git merging cleanly across the rename 11:26:52 Last time that happened with an svn merge much bloodshed and strife resulted 11:29:17 the problem with map_feature_at is that it sort-of-but-not-quite duplicated at least one part of _vault_grid 11:29:29