00:00:58 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:01:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:35 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:56 03dolorous * ra38c454c1d18 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: In trog_book, properly describe the burned book as a spellbook. 00:17:03 -!- Arxale has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:25 -!- Arxale has quit [Client Quit] 00:53:04 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:56 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:47 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:10 -!- xyblor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:19 -!- xyblor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:42 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 02:29:20 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:31 hi 02:29:58 hi 02:30:23 the question came up in ##crawl-offtopic of exactly where you were from 02:32:17 me? 02:32:49 yes, you, galehar 02:33:01 well, I'm from France 02:33:06 Toulouse, in the south 02:33:14 but who cares? 02:36:39 Pseudonut 02:49:23 03j-p-e-g * r47c85dc89b4b 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Equip dwarf statue with a small selection of weapons. 02:49:34 03j-p-e-g * rae6a049401aa 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/lair.des rltiles/dc-feat.txt): Fix jungle_book's use of the elephant statue. Oops! 03:10:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 03:13:02 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:42 -!- Noom has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:09 [Tutorial] Message for resting always assumes full health (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2889) by jpeg 04:06:50 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:11 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:32:01 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:24 hi mulicious 05:00:12 -!- cw__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:31:24 hi dulicious 05:31:38 :D 05:39:27 moin 05:42:43 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:33 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:40 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:04 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:33 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:05 03kilobyte * r1d0375c8d753 10/crawl-ref/source/libunix.cc: Fix window size changes sometimes being ignored. 08:01:10 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:14 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:31:54 -!- xyblor_ is now known as xyblor 08:43:48 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:15 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:24 Morning 08:59:06 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:42:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:52 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:08 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:57 03kilobyte * r8cb57eabe0ab 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: Fix a vault with unspecified branch. 10:09:48 Hrm, anyone here? I want to bounce ideas off someone with programming experience, and my other channels of choice aren't active. 10:09:59 meow? 10:10:02 may be 10:10:10 I might defect if you plan on asking hard questions 10:10:37 what's the capital of Assyria? 10:10:50 I don't know 10:10:52 wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 10:10:57 Assur 10:10:58 I read an article a couple weeks ago about the modern approach to programming (eg, we ONLY program in ASCII) and have since then begun to obsess about a programming language which uses unicode characters, in addition to the traditional ascii character set. 10:11:42 Perl with "use utf8;"? 10:12:42 kilobyte, I've not ever used perl, what does the use utf8 do? 10:13:45 ‎​ 10:14:01 java already allows unicode-encoded source files (I'm not sure to what extent) 10:14:11 lets you use any alphabetic character in your code -- not merely ASCII as normally 10:14:27 bhaak: string literals or identifiers as well? 10:14:41 kilobyte, so it allows you to use unicode characters in character streams, output, input, etc. 10:14:49 let's all write code in Japanese 10:14:54 kilobyte: of course identifiers. string literals aren't worth mentioning nowadays :) 10:15:04 I'm talking about (instead of using && for logical AND, you have a unicode character which represents logical AND) 10:15:18 you can use Unicode literals even in normal C. 10:15:43 ah, kind of like that silly 60's language which you needed a special keyboard for 10:16:57 I don't think using unicode for that gives you much of an enlightment 10:17:34 compare that to instead of string.append(bla); string += bla; 10:18:15 a lot of parsing of code is in your brain. it doesn't really matter. 10:19:09 but if you can increase the amount you can see (and understand) at a glance, that's significant. 10:19:12 while〈犬＝本当）｛い++: cout << "今日は世界"} 10:19:51 bhaak: more readable code is worth it 10:20:06 even if it makes typing a bit less convenient 10:21:06 too bad, input methods focus on human languages, and there's no consistent way of using an arbitrary symbol 10:21:27 kilobyte: that's why I like operator overloading. if you have 10 appends to a string, it looks better with +. but I don't think that there are a lot of reasons why unicode characters would be better for that. 10:22:10 Cryp71c, if a language is too hard to write in for an average programmer.. too bad for it. 10:22:21 take intercal 10:22:49 show me one programmer making a living by writing intercal programs ;-) 10:23:11 my point exactly 10:24:46 needs interrobangs imo 10:25:13 also it should have both octothorpes and sharps 10:25:16 if unicode identifiers and operators would be significantly better than their ascii counterpart, wouldn't the same arguments not also apply to natural languages? is the chinese writing system better than our latin alphabet? 10:25:19 hm. The separation between skills.cc and skills2.cc seems highly arbitrary, and the former is also very short. 10:25:23 and they should be COMPLETELY different in meaning 10:25:37 perhaps they could be merged? 10:26:03 bhaak: no, of course they don't apply 10:26:42 a language you type at a computer is very different from one you speak, read signs in, write out, etc. 10:26:44 Eronarn: they don't? in chinese you got more bits of information per character. that would be the same in a unicode enabled programming language 10:28:04 you're using them for different purposes; what makes programming more efficient/easier doesn't necessarily apply to chinese or english 10:28:59 found it, it's APL. Sample program in it: (~R∊R∘.×R)/R←1↓⍳R 10:29:39 (as you can clearly see, it's an infinite loop printing all primes) 10:30:03 if looking at writing, I'm not so sure. It's about encoding information, being interpreted by another user. In the case of natural languages, it's usually other human beings, in programming languages it's other human beings and computers 10:30:19 zaba: probably. The split seems obsolete now. 10:30:28 bhaak: writing code for human beings and writing code for computers is two very different tasks 10:30:31 see compress javascript 10:30:35 *compressed 10:31:14 Eronarn: but it shouldn't be. code is way more often read by human beings than written 10:31:17 a non-joke language that makes obfuscated perl go into a corner and cry 10:32:15 Zaba: or rather, the latter too long 10:33:12 what about separating the aptitude table away? 10:33:23 and then we might indeed merge the files 10:34:46 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:35:03 kilobyte, I find that APL quite interesting. Its certainly difficult to read because I don't know it, but being able to print all primes using one line of code is quite cool. 10:36:07 someone in #rgrd wrote a wrapper for it recently iirc 10:36:22 for APL? 10:41:15 when adding unicode, why not add colors as well? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html 10:42:03 one of the features of python is built-in and meaningful indentation, why not have built-in and meaningful syntax coloring? 10:42:18 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:31 bhaak, idk if you're serious to the coloring, but the only thing I could think it being used for would be for exception handling. Effectively, coloring a block one color makes it a try block, and the block immediately following which is a separate color is the catch block, but that'd be tough to read, It hink..and a pain. 11:01:36 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:11:52 also colorblind programmers. 11:13:23 Eronarn, well, limited coloring would still be useful, since distinct colors will clearly be different shades. 11:13:43 But yeah, it still doesn't solve the fact that coloring blocks for implicit meanings would be bad to read 11:13:48 problem with titles in player ghost descriptions (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2890) by xyblor 11:32:51 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:33 kilobyte, sounds good... 12:29:53 Cryp71c: I think that you could do amazing things with coloring. of course there are problems with that but using unicode or coloring can be thought of as just some sort of visualization. I don't think there is something in there that would blow one's mind like for example learning OO after only knowing imperative programming or larning dynamic languages when all you knew was C and Pascal. But if somebody really builds something that's 12:30:02 more than just cool to look at (APL is frightening to look at :) but really useful and helpful, I don't mind being proven wrong. 12:30:50 bhaak, what kind of coloring were you thinking of? 12:31:00 (this is all sidestepping the issues with colorblind programmers, ofcourse) 12:34:20 for example this: you know that perl and ruby use specific characters for designating specific types? strings, class variables, etc. that would be something that would also could be done with color. 12:35:14 bhaak, indeed, it could. Though a language I would create would probably be centralized around web development, which utilizes to great effect loosely typed variables. 12:35:19 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:59 03dolorous * r69a18755fa36 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Comment fix. 12:35:59 03dolorous * rbf231fa2a6ab 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Remove "Burn Spellbook" from the deep dwarf berserker spell list. 12:36:10 03dolorous * rb4595c2673cc 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Adjust deep dwarf glyph colors a bit. 12:36:11 03dolorous * rf7b579b6835f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Simplify. 12:37:21 it's not easy to value such a different way of doing stuff. Just think how impossible it was for an assembler-only programmer to think in OO terms. 12:38:56 you'd have to try it out to really value it. But from my experience with a lot of different programming languages I would be rather surprised if it would enable a significant different programming experience 12:41:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:46 03j-p-e-g * r50799ddec554 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/tutorial/tutorial.des: Slight tutorial tweaks. 12:46:48 03j-p-e-g * r99e266d46dd5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (art-data.txt rltiles/item/ring/artefact/urand_charms.png): Add a tile for the ring of Charms. 12:46:52 03j-p-e-g * r20ddfde79e22 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add coolio's water elemental tile. 12:50:16 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:59 -!- OG17 has quit [Quit: OG17] 13:00:17 kilobyte, the aptitude table is indeed almost half of skills2.cc---but what would it be separated into? 13:01:27 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:04:33 kilobyte, would it be a header file akin to mon-data.h, included in skills2.cc? 13:08:32 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:23 kilobyte, another unrelated thing that bothers me is that in various places, MONS_PROGRAM_BUG and MONS_NO_MONSTER are used to indicate an error in monster-related things 13:11:37 kilobyte, I wonder whether such use of MONS_PROGRAM_BUG could be eliminated. 13:22:58 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:51 03j-p-e-g * r63ebe357868e 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Fix #2890: Use string instead of const char* in ghost description. 14:05:41 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:24 03dolorous * r1928ed03173b 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Change the staff of air damage message from "jolted" to "electrocuted". 14:08:36 03dolorous * rc06fc888be65 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Add formatting fixes. 14:11:00 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:26 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:47 03dolorous * r9578c10dbeea 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc monster.cc): Move monster Evocations from _generate_rod_power() to monster::skill(). 15:13:13 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:27 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:12 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:19:35 so wrt summoning: i got to thinking about it, and i think one of its problems may be that it only has summon-creatures effects 15:20:02 (well, and recall/abj, anyhow) 15:26:32 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 16:36:36 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:23 -!- Noom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:23 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:02:32 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:08 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:43 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 17:25:38 hihi - forum? :D 17:27:35 forum? 17:27:46 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/new-stonesoup-forum 17:28:08 so glad I wasn't reading here ;) 17:28:36 still have too many unmaintained phpbb instances running on cdo *sigh* 17:33:05 g'night o/ 17:33:47 oh you tricky devils 17:34:05 tapping 1 turn rest to let monsters walk next to you no longer works eh? 17:34:14 devilish 17:34:21 :O 17:34:25 eh? 17:34:36 oh nvm haha 17:35:05 I think I used to be able to do 1 turn skips with 5 on the numpad and now it wants to do full rests 17:35:37 i think you just need to change some settings in putty 17:38:02 or get a numpad with a period 17:38:32 Napkin: oughta put a link to the forum at the side 17:39:51 OpenSSH doesn't recognize the period on my numpad 17:40:07 use hjklyubn it's great 17:40:13 I'm only assuming I'm using openSSH though 17:41:18 I don't actually know what I'm using :O 17:41:27 I mean for movement 17:41:38 Yeah I know 17:41:55 my shortcut to start Crawl CDO just calls for "ssh" and I don't know what my ssh client actually is 17:42:05 whatever Linux Mint defaults to 17:42:09 ssh -v 17:42:22 destroy vikeys 17:42:30 ah yup 17:42:49 You guys ever notice in openSSH that Crawl is dark grey and doesn't use black for backgrounds? 17:42:50 also gonna reopen this discussion topic since people are around now: 17:42:50 hjklyunm nd ndkkdo 17:42:57 16:19 < Eronarn> so wrt summoning: i got to thinking about it, and i think one of its problems may be that it only has summon-creatures effects 17:43:00 16:20 < Eronarn> (well, and recall/abj, anyhow) 17:43:07 Vandal: this is your terminal colour settings 17:43:15 oh? 17:43:23 add a profile in gnome-terminal for 'crawl' 17:43:35 switch to it when you want to play crawl 17:43:40 I don't know how to do that 17:43:50 right click, profiles, profile preferences 17:43:55 click them menu options 17:44:04 damn it's hard to type properly when you accidentally switch dvorak off 17:44:12 ergo my sentence a minute ago 17:44:29 dhtnfgbm for moving go! 17:44:29 Ah, thanks Eronarn 17:45:45 it has a preset for "xterm" and mine was on "custom" for some reason 17:45:48 changing it to xterm fixed it 17:46:58 last question, how do I enable compression in OpenSSH? Is it just a command line option I need to add to my shortcut? 17:47:12 you should use 17:47:14 ??ssh[2] 17:47:15 ssh[2/3]: Are you on *NIX and tired of entering passwords for the main SSH login? Copy sorear's $HOME/.ssh/config http://angband.pl/crawl/config The ssh_key that might be needed is available at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key 17:47:17 that thing 17:47:25 it does everything for you 17:47:40 so you can just use "ssh cdo" to connect to cdo with compression and everything 17:49:09 radical suggestion: draining shouldn't instakill xl 1 characters 17:49:25 did you just die to draining on D:1 17:49:34 no, I'm not even playing crawl 17:49:42 keskitalo mentioned in on the forum 17:49:51 I don't do forum I don't trust it 17:50:22 s/ in/ it/ 17:54:09 woo 17:54:13 Ok got his config working 17:54:16 Thanks 17:54:37 Now I just need to figure out why OpenSSH doesn't approve of my . key on my numpad 17:54:41 and I'm ship shape 17:55:45 seems like you could macro that, hey? 18:01:08 no idea 18:01:23 You mean like macro the . on numpad to call the . on the rest of the kb? 18:01:26 yes 18:01:37 That is an in-Crawl option? 18:02:18 wow, I can't even remember how to open that menu 18:02:22 ~ 18:02:27 ah thanks 18:03:25 ah, the keymap option did it too 18:06:01 pretty sure keymap is better in your case anyway 18:10:12 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:54 how long does it usually take for submitted patches to get looked at? 18:16:06 valrus_: depends if anyone cares about what the patch does 18:16:11 try putting L@@K in your title 18:16:14 :( 18:16:17 haha 18:16:27 sounds like an ace strategy 18:16:34 people used to do that on ebay, you know 18:16:39 I know 19:41:35 03dolorous * r2265b7f33a10 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Minimize enum breakage on the next major binary compatibility break. 19:41:36 03dolorous * r5b32930f235f 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Add formatting fix. 19:41:37 03dolorous * rf545168b6bb8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Resort equipment entry for plain dwarves. 19:41:42 03dolorous * r1bd0d4c54bf5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Add weapon and armor entries for plain elves, just in case. 20:21:57 -!- xyblor has left ##crawl-dev 20:22:08 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:27:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:30:09 03dolorous * rec42a2d07346 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Resort equipment entry for plain deep dwarves. 20:30:11 03dolorous * rf4f1114c48a1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Remove unneeded brackets. 20:30:16 03dolorous * re43e0f674dfd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-cast.cc spl-data.h): Remove the code for monster Burn Spellbook. 20:32:10 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:36 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:30 03dolorous * rac04957b8741 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files in 3 dirs): Rename the Dwarf Hall to the Dwarven Hall; it's still Dwarf for short. 21:23:37 03dolorous * r00ca6f0eda6d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files in 6 dirs): Remove the nisse, and move its tile to UNUSED. 21:23:45 03dolorous * r45cb568f01c2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Mark deep dwarves unborn as CE_NOCORPSE, being undead and without blood. 21:23:48 03dolorous * r56baa695d9e1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Properly mark non-generic deep dwarves as Z_NOZOMBIE. 21:23:54 yaaaay 21:25:06 also, it should be Dwarven Fortress 22:04:18 do a DF crossover 22:06:32 TGWi: that wasn't a joke 22:06:43 I agree 22:06:44 i have chatlogs saying we can name it that! 22:06:52 it must happen! 22:07:34 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:12 also: summoning. 22:10:04 Eronarn: what about it 22:10:18 summon durations should be shorter 22:10:25 that's not what he's going to say but whatever 22:10:46 sorear: i was thinking about it and i realized that one of its problems is that all of its spells are summon-stuff-to-fight-for-you 22:11:07 Eronarn: isn't that kind of the point 22:12:00 sorear: no, because schools in crawl don't really work that way - there are lots of spells that create allies without using summ at all 22:12:21 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:47 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest27612 22:13:15 summoning monsters is very flavorful but in practice pretty annoying, but if you want to use summoning as a skill it is your only option 22:13:58 whereas every other magic skill does multiple kinds of related things (even conj has singletarget vs. beam vs. clouds) 22:18:48 conjurations is doing fine... the issue is adding more tactical variety to the "summon stuff to fight for you" spells 22:19:23 rather than it just being a progression from "summon weak dude" through "summon strong dude" 22:19:46 TGWi: well, it's the 'stuff to fight for you' that i think we have not looked at critically yet 22:20:12 obviously that should remain the core of summoning, but i think summ would benefit greatly if it had some spells that didn't directly summon monsters 22:21:01 if haunt summons didn't last eight years, the spell would be appreciably distinct from other summons 22:21:40 like: summoning a swarm of (small) insects as a cloud, or summoning a magical weapon 22:22:33 TGWi: summon durations are pretty overkill in general, both player and monster, but just reducing them won't change that summoning a ton of dudes every fight is sort of boring 22:23:04 @??large abomination 22:23:04 large abomination (13X) | Speed: 6-12 | HD: 9 | Health: 23-66 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Damage: 40 | Flags: 05demonic | Res: 06magic(102) | XP: 520. 22:23:16 this is a boring high-end spell 22:23:48 TGWi: i want it to be more like 'summon panlord' personally 22:24:02 "summon slime creature" would be interesting 22:24:26 probably too abusable 22:24:32 probably OP but combining summons is cool 22:24:41 rather than making a gigantic horde 22:25:06 i think we need to have a summon cap, or a maintenance cost on summons, and then to just plain make summons better 22:25:16 they're at an artificially high level because you can have so dang many of them 22:25:16 remove the exp penalty :OP 22:25:17 :O 22:25:27 ice beast as a L5 spell is a joke 22:25:38 sticky flame is L4, blade hands is L5 single school 22:25:50 one ugly thing, as a L6 spell 22:26:08 call imp at L2 is completely broken 22:27:17 sorear: i'd rather have sticks to snakes honestly 22:27:21 since that makes a lot of poisoning snakes 22:28:11 summon elephants! 22:28:28 we need more intelligent non-evil summons for zin 22:28:51 summon posse 22:29:17 seriously though 22:29:18 sorear: i have Plans 22:29:35 if you want the job of redesigning summoning, take it 22:29:44 one that i would really like to see: Summon Guardian Spirit (as in, the dude from the amulet/hat) 22:29:50 have to be wearing it to cast it 22:29:55 ste--what 22:29:58 no 22:30:27 waaaaaaay too niche 22:30:49 TGWi: i wouldn't put it in a guaranteed spellbook but it'd be a cool thing to find in a randart one 22:30:57 ??monsters 22:30:57 monsters[1/2]: Type @?monstername in this channel (or in a PM to Gretell), or see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/kielosto/crawl_spoilers/ss/crawl_ss_monsters_by_name.html If you want to see the stats of a monster in trunk, use @?? instead of @? 22:31:23 unfortunately there aren't that many intelligent monsters that aren't A) evil B) humans and stuff and summoning them feels weird 22:31:41 fortunately we can also make new monsters 22:32:32 summon sphinx 22:32:42 sphinxes are evil 22:32:49 that was unrelated 22:32:58 (also, are they really?) 22:34:01 @??sphinx 22:34:02 sphinx (15H) | Speed: 11 | HD: 16 | Health: 62-107 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 25, 12, 12 | Flags: spellcaster, sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(64) | XP: 3132 | Sp: confuse, paralyse, minor healing, smiting (7-17), slow. 22:34:07 guess not 22:34:09 thought they were 22:34:13 @??salamander 22:34:14 salamander (04N) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 54-94 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 2304(fire:14-27) | Res: 06magic(56), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1396. 22:34:21 those aren't evil and are pretty cool 22:34:34 summon sphinx would rock 22:34:39 do you mean salamanders? 22:35:22 yes 22:35:52 ogres are intelligent non-evil 22:36:04 they could be a stationary summon, taking a few turns to reach where you are 22:36:06 also, most player races 22:36:12 and then bursting out of the floor 22:36:21 somewhere in your vicinity 22:36:35 -!- Guest27612 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:41 TGWi: i think we should avoid having the player races be summons, it feels wrong 22:36:49 (obvious exception for the undead) 22:37:02 summon gnolls 22:37:04 :D 22:37:21 except that wouldn't be interesting so 22:37:29 Eronarn: I'd like to see a bunch of ideas written down without line-by-line ##crawl-dev'ing 22:38:13 sorear: i actually started to fill out my spell school redo page, i'm just tackling the formulas first 22:38:36 TGWi: a spell that summoned a bunch of intelligent humanoids well-armed with nets and javelins would be cool 22:38:55 well, maybe not javelins since there's no easy way to say 'oh, those vanish when they leave' 22:39:13 would have to make sure the nets and stuff disappear, yeah 22:41:30 mentioned ogres specifically because they're fragile but crazy strong (which would lead to interesting use compared to other summons) 22:41:57 simulacra are already that way 22:42:07 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:14 also i think mostly fragile + strong would be irritating as hell to play around in practice 22:42:41 if you only got one simulacra per cast they would be so awful to use 22:43:34 one with mega-reaching would be nice - i'm envisioning something that makes portals and stabs through them 22:44:09 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:35 Eronarn: crawl has a 'summoned' item flag now, so if a boggart summons yaktaurs, the bolts dissolve into shadows after they are fired 22:48:01 sorear: yes but that makes sense for shadow creatures only because they're made out of shadow 22:48:15 it would feel wrong for other creatures 22:48:30 Why/ 22:48:39 It makes sense for any summoned creature. 22:49:32 it makes sense from a gameplay perspective, of course, i'm talking about a flavor one (other summons are real creatures, they just don't drop their stuff if they die) 22:54:56 A kobold hit me with a glowing whip at level 1. No messages. 22:55:06 I kill the kobold and pick up "a whip of drianing" 23:08:03 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:54 apparently the "helpless" prefixing issue also applies to milestones 23:12:34 where did the helpless prefix come from anyway? 23:13:48 !lm 23:13:48 7332. [2010-11-30] sorear the Gusty (L5 KoAE) killed the helpless Sigmund on turn 5430. (D:2) 23:13:54 ah