00:10:47 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 00:11:00 03dolorous * r00bc5332105a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: For now, disallow friendly monsters from burning spellbooks. 00:40:45 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:51:48 -!- Noom has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:12 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:05 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:54:14 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 01:57:37 03dolorous * r0ec29aaae052 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Remove redundant comment. 01:57:48 03dolorous * rfcb605bcf55f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix false positives in _foe_should_res_negative_energy(). 02:06:48 moin 02:17:10 -!- herself has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:44 -!- Icelos has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:18 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:51 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:48 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:10:10 03dolorous * rf46131340277 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Properly display a message when monster Injury Mirror expires. 03:24:12 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:18 I think firewood_loft may need a weight reduction 03:44:32 I've had it in about 5-10% of games... way too common for a gimmick vault 03:44:49 probably because it's so tiny, it gets placed with a high success rate 03:47:01 hm. 03:47:28 sprint maps always get built by _builder_by_branch, it seems 03:47:42 'random_map_for_place' 03:48:34 that seems to make at least some of the paranoid checks for game_is_sprint in _build_dungeon_level useless 03:48:59 for example, only _builder_normal can create the special room, and it is never reached 03:53:14 I think 95% of our paranoid checks are unreachable :p 03:53:34 dolorous is amazingly paranoid 03:53:59 sorear, some are reachable, but unobviously irrelevant 03:54:18 Zaba: are both branches reachable? 03:55:25 both branches of what? 03:55:30 the if statement 03:55:49 well, in this particular case, yes 03:58:08 ...how does one start the tutorial, anyway 03:59:35 !cdo 03:59:35 noom (L27 @ Swamp:4, T:127617), nht (L22 @ D:22, T:68408), omil (L15 @ Orc:2, T:59107), Icelos (L4 @ D:3, T:2509), sorear (L4 @ D:6, T:3828), Voker57 (L3 @ D:3, T:2863) 03:59:59 guys, I need to reboot CDO because of kernel fixes 04:00:36 oh, tutorial and sprint are even special-cased in _dgn_random_map_for_place 04:02:29 Napkin: I've saved 04:03:35 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:03:54 thanks, sorear 04:04:05 if (sr.created && !sr.hooked_up) _special_room_hook_up(sr); is so much easier to read than if (sr.created && !sr.hooked_up && !crawl_state.game_is_sprint() && !crawl_state.game_is_tutorial()) { _specr_2(sr); } 04:09:26 -!- Gretell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:30 o/ 04:12:34 -!- Napkin has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:16:55 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:29 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:41 re 04:24:58 !cdo 04:24:59 noom (L27 @ Swamp:4, T:128077), Ragdoll (L6 @ D:4, T:4630), lomarcan77 (L3 @ D:3, T:1925) 04:33:07 I finished, sorear - if you would like to continue, go ahead 04:44:46 level 2 Call Imp has a huge effect on summoner difficulty 04:44:53 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 04:47:23 03zaba * rf4fdc0128206 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-swamp.cc dungeon.cc): Remove old Swamp layout code that was surrounded by #ifdef OLD_SWAMP_LAYOUT. 04:47:26 03zaba * rc7b41a8ad918 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Remove a useless check for dgn_level_vetoed. 04:47:27 03zaba * rf8af82e52201 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Rename _specr_2 to _special_room_hook_up. 04:47:28 03zaba * r1e1c66fc4512 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Remove paranoid checks for Sprint and Tutorial when hooking up the special room. 04:48:54 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:39 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 04:55:53 goddamn it 04:56:08 level_layout_type is so obscure 04:56:34 only a few vaults actually... use it, though 04:58:59 there is "shoals", "abyss", "swamp", "portal vault", "basic", "open", "cross", "caves", "rooms", "city", "misc", "labyrinth" 05:00:45 oh, and "spotty", and there's also a "_spotty" postfix that can be added to other types 05:00:53 when they get modified by spotty_level 05:01:00 oh jeez. 05:01:04 this mechanic is just crazy 05:03:09 I mean, yes, it's documented, unlike the rune_subst stuff 05:03:17 it actually even looks alright from the documentation 05:03:40 ..but not from the level generation code 05:10:39 it lacks most of layouts, too 05:11:33 it seems like a useful feature, though 05:11:48 but... 05:13:08 so it may be extended rather than removed 05:13:42 yes.. but how to extend it without making it even worse? 05:16:58 oh god 05:17:14 it's also broken, it seems. 05:18:39 kilobyte, there should be a wizard command for debug_dump_levgen. 05:18:45 any idea what the command key could be? 05:19:20 since it's a rare thing for most of developers, I'd say ^something 05:20:40 hmm.. everything that'd make sense for it seems to be taken. How bad is ^E? 05:22:50 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:38 kilobyte, funny thing is, level_layout_type is not set for non-Dis levels that have a primary vault (build method "random_map_for_place" or "normal_random_map_for_place") 05:35:51 kilobyte, non-Dis and non-Swamp, that is 05:36:30 or wait.. it appears unset for Dis, too, even though it should be set. 05:36:59 it calls _plan_4 directly, after all. Well, whatever... 05:38:08 still, though, that's basically every branch end with a vault, even if the vault is not ORIENT: encompass 05:38:49 plus D:1 with an entry vault.. and normal_random_map_for_place can very well occur randomly... 05:39:17 is it really fine that layout_type is missing for such levels? 05:53:56 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:27 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:44 03zaba * re7f48bce2e2a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc main.cc): Add a wizard command (^E) that dumps level generation information. 06:28:45 03zaba * r9ddc41d64f26 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/layout.des dungeon.cc): Convert dungeon.cc:_plan_5 to lua. 06:33:55 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:35:53 -!- ivan has quit [Excess Flood] 08:37:13 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:15 -!- ivan has quit [Client Quit] 08:37:52 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:54 Confusing a monster changes its name to "helpless foo" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2880) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 09:28:58 the strings returned by make_stringf don't leak, right? 09:31:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:11 03j-p-e-g * rf9714484ff2e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add coolio's mimic icon, modified by me to make it smaller. 09:41:15 hmm, there's a really slim (one in 20) chance that _plan_main replaces the rock walls on a level with either metal or stone ones 09:41:33 kinda nasty.. 09:42:07 I mean.. it's not that I have anything against that, it's just that there are so damn many places where wall type is changed. 09:42:37 _plan_4 does some fiddling of its own, and it's very complicated 09:42:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:46 _fixup_walls is more or less consistent, and is always used 09:42:52 dis also has its own rules, somewhere 09:44:01 I.. think dis could be handled in _fixup_walls.. 09:44:12 oh wait, it already is 09:44:26 I must have been thinking of something else. 09:46:01 Prompt "Switch back from butchering tool?" doesn't have effect (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2881) by doublep 09:47:10 ah. I have been thinking of the use of _plan_4 in _built_vault_impl. 09:48:43 still, though, I find it pretty disturbing that there are only _two_ layout generators that work for levels with primary vaults. 09:52:48 -!- Icelos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:01 -!- Icelos has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:34 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:33 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:09:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:19 // odds: 138 in 210 {dlb} 10:12:21 well what the hell 10:12:33 can somebody tell me why the difference between that and 140 in 210 is not negligible? 10:23:02 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:24 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:55 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:26 03zaba * rc6b1eb2f796c 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: dungeon.cc: _plan_3 and _plan_5 don't need _plan_main to place the stairs. 10:45:38 03zaba * r2155ced8dee8 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Move common code from _plan_[12356] and _city_level into a separate function. 10:48:49 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:55:14 -!- Icelos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:14 -!- Vandal has quit [] 11:23:26 03dolorous * rac42a092d35b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Add missing ability description for Injury Mirror. 11:23:58 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:16 03dolorous * r99748b0f3b91 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc mon-info.cc): Properly describe a monster that's using Injury Mirror. 11:44:48 03dolorous * r7e7997ba6f80 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Fix a flag for the Agony spell; it's not LOS-free, and needs a tracer. 11:48:32 03dolorous * r4a395c2ec1f4 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Implement Agony as a monster spell. 11:48:34 03dolorous * r7f01bb944cd6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Make deep dwarves unborn use Agony instead of Symbol of Torment. 11:55:40 03dolorous * re79f2b95568b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Clarify the Drain Life ability description. 12:03:50 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 12:15:51 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 12:21:44 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:46 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:29 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:33 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Client Quit] 12:23:28 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:35 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Client Quit] 12:24:08 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:59 -!- joosa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:59 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:59 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:59 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:02 -!- Siber2 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:09 -!- kilobyte_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:09 -!- jld_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:09 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:09 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:12 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:12 -!- jlewis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:12 -!- jlewis_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:13 -!- syllogism has quit [*.net *.split] 12:40:13 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:40:14 -!- upsy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:14 -!- violetj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:14 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:14 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:15 -!- due has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:15 -!- makm0rn has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:16 -!- upsy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:17 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:17 -!- CIA-54 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:17 -!- ivan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:17 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:18 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 12:40:18 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:18 -!- rax_ is now known as rax 12:40:28 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:28 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:34 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:35 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 12:40:35 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:39 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:25 -!- CIA-21 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:27 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:11 -!- CIA-21 is now known as 5EXABT4Z1 12:44:14 -!- violetj has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:16 -!- Zaba is now known as Guest93946 12:44:38 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:46:01 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 12:46:09 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:55 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:03 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * r5a3c8e9ecd0f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Consider monster Drain Life a success if it damaged anything. 12:48:16 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:22 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:10 -!- elly_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:24 -!- elly has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:25 -!- jld_ is now known as jld 12:54:31 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:57:24 -!- Guest93946 has quit [Changing host] 12:57:24 -!- Guest93946 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:56 -!- Guest93946 is now known as Zaba 13:03:59 -!- kilobyte_ is now known as kilobyte 13:06:50 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * rbc7d05f61ecc 10/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc: Remove obsolete reference to the Dwarf Hall's having multiple levels. 13:07:30 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:19 lol i think the CIA bot broke 13:25:05 would anyone object to altering spider form? 13:28:09 depends how it was altered surely. 13:28:14 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:20 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:16 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:16 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Home of the Vi-Kings! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 13:42:05 poison stabs perhaps... they could inflict poison without waking the monster 13:48:00 i think a decent combo might be: always poisons on a stab; poisons less than right now and does less damage than when not stabbing; can launch a web, which is like a net that is always destroyed afterwards 13:48:31 so good at netting and stabbing to death smaller opponents, or stabbing in general, but less good than it is right now against stuff like hill giants 13:48:55 I think all spider form really needs to do is help kill stuff early and reducing that makes no sense 13:49:21 also active abilities seem unlikely 13:49:48 what do you consider 'early' 13:50:16 before you'd want to go without it, I guess 13:50:31 oh so like vaults? okay then 13:51:32 by the Lair subbranches you basically always have better transforms to use 13:52:05 kilobyte: i do those after a few levels of vaults usually 13:53:35 spider form is great in lair itself 13:54:00 -!- Elvashi is now known as Textmode 14:00:37 speaking of spider form, I haven't figured out what 14:00:40 'Cling' does yet 14:00:45 it's like lev but worse 14:00:50 like levitation but only next to walls 14:01:10 it needs to be made clearer in game 14:02:30 it'd be nice if it only showed when there's no ground 14:02:41 instead of an everpresent "there's a wall here" 14:03:31 sorear: "While in this form, you can cling to walls." 14:04:13 if only people actually (re)read spell descriptions (every time something changes) 14:04:26 it's not an unreasonable thing to expect people to do 14:04:43 if you don't know what a status light means maybe you should read the source's description 14:06:07 I did read the spell description 14:06:27 However, it doesn't say what cling to walls means! 14:07:11 TGWi: though with with what OG17 proposed (which is reasonable), it would be impossible to notice a difference (without perhaps being silly and mistyping into lava that's next to a wall or something) 14:07:43 "While in this form, you can cross fluids by clinging to a wall." 14:07:51 monky: like how it's impossible to know about floating in iceform? :P 14:07:51 OG17's proposal is bad because it doesn't even suggest that the ability exists 14:08:03 Eronarn: yep 14:08:20 fluids and traps, right? 14:08:24 TGWi: obviously the suggestion would be elsewhere 14:08:39 (not sure if avoiding mechanical traps works, if not, that's a bug IMHO) 14:09:12 the traps are on the wall too 14:09:18 where do you think the projectile comes from 14:09:32 why do you need a ceaseless reminder that an ability exists 14:10:04 clinging does provide an in-you-eyes reminder all the time 14:10:28 and since it may be unclear that you're currently clinging, it's a good thing 14:10:32 kilobyte: just so you know, spiderform does not provide rPois 14:11:40 kilobyte, it'd be a lot more useful to know that you're actually clinging over liquid than to know that you're just next to a wall 14:12:13 so you would also get "Cling" over traps and the such right? 14:12:19 @?? spider 14:12:19 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 42. 14:12:29 casmith789: that's what I meant 14:12:32 if it works on traps, I don't know 14:12:37 casmith789: spider form does not provide vPois. This is a bug. :p 14:12:51 ah 14:15:07 if we add vPois, it probably should work differently than rF-. I mean, rPois+vPois should not cancel each other out. 14:15:49 why not? You're still without rP 14:15:59 unless you let it stack and that's still a handicap 14:16:22 that's not a bug 14:16:38 how is this the only place in the game where symmetry is a good thing 14:16:47 if we're doing this, can we fix monster spells too? 14:16:59 only if they have to do with bug biology 14:17:23 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:25 I mean, instead of them negating each other, I would expect to rPois work even if you're vulnerable -- but if you get poisoned anyway (ie, beforehand or via Poison Arrow), you suffer from double damage 14:18:05 hi dpeg! 14:18:17 OG17: spider form is now paralyzed if hit in curare 14:18:22 Hi! 14:18:31 that's fixed 14:18:35 What tonight's topic? 14:18:49 @??spider 14:18:49 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 42. 14:19:02 players in spider form are not vulnerable to poison 14:19:07 kilobyte: vul poison? 14:19:22 also if spider poison worked like that the vulnerability'd be really ignorable with rP unless you actively used it in snake 14:19:27 it'd be better like fire 14:19:28 dpeg: all arthropods in the game are 14:19:30 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:19:42 We're not forced to be symmetric here. If we find a good symmetric solution, we take it, otherwise we flake it. 14:19:46 dpeg: <3 14:19:57 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:44 nothing wrong with giving rpois- to spiderform, but it should work like fire does 14:20:50 for sure 14:21:01 Eronarn: so more damage? 14:21:31 What happens if you're burning (from sticky flame) with rF- ? 14:21:37 more damage 14:22:27 Before we do anything to spider form, we should ask and answer: can the spell/form take the nerf? (I don't really know, tbh. I think it's one of the better ones?) 14:23:19 Got to put two unruly kids to bed. Let me just find the glue, back in a few minutes. 14:24:31 not wanting to nerf the spell without a good reason -- and the logic behind how rPois is supposed to work, are the reasons why I'm suggesting vulnerability to be independent from resistance 14:24:37 the nerf wouldn't ruin the spell but I don't see why 14:25:31 TGWi: well the original discussion was about making the form less direct combat, more stealth/mobility 14:26:10 that has nothing to do with poison though 14:26:23 kilobyte: btw, spider form only gives 9/8 speed (not 12/8) 14:26:28 want to change that also? 14:26:49 OG17: yes, this is a side discussion that started from that 14:27:09 also it doesn't make much sense to add intentionally-easily sidestepped vulnerability just because of monster spiders 14:27:27 spider-playerrace forms can be different than real spiders 14:27:47 Eronarn: spider form is an integral part of transmuter early game and significantly changing it (especially to cater to an unrelated playstyle) is risky 14:27:51 it might be better to change monster spiders instead -- they were added solely as a dummy for the genus, but after a tile was added they are actually used in a couple of places 14:28:08 which are: a single lua trap, and Spider zigs 14:28:16 status quo is cool 14:28:19 @??redback 14:28:20 redback (05s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 6 | Health: 20-45 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 1805(strong poison) | Res: 06magic(24) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 301. 14:28:39 which makes any changes to the monster have such an immense balance implication... 14:30:03 TGWi: i think spider form is good enough early on that it would be fine losing a bit of damage/EV, it's not like it takes a super long time to get ice form or blade hands 14:30:18 it takes until about lair but okay 14:30:28 spider form is good even in lair 14:30:47 how do you dismiss me because spider form is useful in vaults and dismiss him because spider form is easy to replace 14:31:16 I'd think it's one or the other 14:31:51 let's agree that there is nothing wrong with spider form 14:32:01 it doesn't have to be one or the other, transmuters get more than one spell good at doing damage 14:33:03 maybe vaults isn't a point then 14:33:33 nothing is wrong with spider form 14:33:42 regardless spider form is good early on because of damage/ev 14:34:27 you could lower damage and just kite more but that's only drawing things out 14:35:08 also, a form that increases stealth is a bad idea 14:35:21 "shadowform" 14:35:27 i'm pretty sure spider form already increases stealth 14:35:48 wait so what was your suggestion 14:35:52 didn't eronarn make a shadowform design for new stalker books 14:36:05 monky: i am working on one but that's not a pure stealth boost 14:36:27 and spiderform would be? 14:36:41 or am I misinterpreting pure 14:37:19 don't see why forms can't affect stealth 14:37:26 though it shouldn't be the point of them or anything 14:37:32 oh actually weirdly enough i don't think spiderform does 14:37:49 wouldn't it by making you smaller? Not sure how that works 14:37:49 it looks like it keeps using your racial stealth mod which is pretty weird by itself since it's not just 'you made out of stone' or whatever 14:38:11 OG17: increasing stealth is fine but you can't just make a form that's "you have more stealth" 14:38:20 well yeah 14:38:34 because that's stupid and would be boring and annoying to play with 14:38:58 if you renamed invis to shadowform that would be that 14:38:59 it would have to be like "you have more stealth but you're accumulating glow" 14:39:01 we could call it invis 14:39:05 back 14:39:21 hi dpeg 14:40:25 invis is weird as it is 14:40:30 Following kilobyte and just removing rP- from monster spiders would be fine with me, too. 14:40:36 how does invisibility increase stealth vs sleeping monsters 14:40:54 forms currently don't affect stealth at all 14:41:01 monky: visible adventurers wear reflective vests 14:41:18 Eronarn: why did you remove so much from your spell wiki page? 14:41:31 does rP- affect the poison DOT, or is it just the initial damage from sting, etc? 14:41:43 monky: so they are actively bright 14:41:52 while visible, you are basically a lighthouse 14:42:03 dpeg: remove? 14:42:10 dpeg: I meant speed rather than poison there... it makes sense to have all arthropods follow the same logic 14:43:02 dpeg: i didn't remove anything; i added a bunch of relevant functions last night and now i need to prune them down to just the formulas involved 14:43:11 there is exactly one reference to transformations in the stealth function... felids in any transform are denied the bonus from paws 14:43:21 Eronarn: yes, look at your last change. It removes two big sections. 14:43:48 oh, yes 14:43:51 of irrelevant code 14:44:00 stuff like: 14:44:01 - case SPELL_SANDBLAST: + 14:44:01 - if (!cast_sandblast(powc, beam)) + 14:44:01 - return (SPRET_ABORT); + 14:44:01 - break; 14:44:06 Eronarn: ah, ok. So no mistake. 14:44:27 yeah i'm only interested in those functions for how they actually affect spellcasting power, success, etc. 14:50:11 -!- herself has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:07 hm, how do people feel about: skill = school; multischool spells weight your highest school more; power = unweighted school avg with an int multiplier but int matters less for it than now; hunger/MP/noise/slots = spellcasting skill (only); int adds to MR 15:07:30 i think the difference between weighted or not, for skill vs. power, will be better than just having something like highest skill for success, lowest skill for power 15:09:41 I don't see why the highest skill should be weighted: wouldn't this just lead to dedicated one-trick ponies being able to pull off multi-school spells easier? 15:10:40 Also, I like it better if the various outcomes (success, power etc.) depend on two variables rather than just one. (Currently, we often have use than two variables which is bad in its own right.) 15:11:21 dpeg: a pure ice elementalist having an easier time casting ice spells than right now is not a bad thing, imo. you're at half, or even a third, success and power 15:12:28 i think it's good if they can cast it more easily than right now, but remain at the current decreased power relative to someone who does know the other schools 15:13:13 So this is a softened version of "success = highest school, power = lowest school"? 15:13:54 yes - that one is bad because, for example, a conjurer with throw fire and conj 10 will have only power from non-school-based sources 15:14:13 it will create more extreme swings 15:15:04 like you are a pure conj, want to learn firestorm, have it at great success, have almost no power - so you quickly learn 10 levels of fire magic from doing a level or two at that XL, and now have FAR more power 15:15:15 yes, that idea is quite radical... but I think the basic approach is interesting: players would understand multi-school spells easily (and some softening would be advisable, of course) 15:15:58 Eronarn: how is that currently for a pure Cj who wants to use Firestorm? 15:16:59 !seen Napkin 15:16:59 I last saw Napkin at Sat Nov 27 10:33:08 2010 UTC (10h 43m 51s ago) saying I finished, sorear - if you would like to continue, go ahead on ##crawl-dev. 15:18:51 dpeg: currently, someone with 27 cj 0 fire has effective skill of 13.5 (plus the spellcasting boost) and power at the same; if this were with yours, they'd have skill 27 for power but skill 0 for power; with mine at say, 2:1, they would have effective 18 skill success and 13.5 skill power 15:19:18 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:20:01 if they go to 27 cj 10 fire, for those three options, the numbers would be 18.5/18.5 current; 27/10 yours; 21.333/18.5 mine 15:20:34 Eronarn: I would understand a system where the ration x:y is symmetrically affected (x=success, y=power). Currently, it is 0.5 : 0.5; with my one, it would be 1:0. But yours just gives. We should also take away :) 15:21:11 dpeg: well, remember that i would be removing the current success factor of spellcasting skill 15:21:23 so everyone would be worse at casting everything, by default 15:22:16 we need tables at this point :) 15:22:33 yes, that's why i snagged the functions, so that i can distill them to formulas and make some test cases 15:36:37 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:33 Holy crap. I'm in IRC. on Linux 15:37:42 xchat is kinda neat 15:38:46 * dpeg hands Vandal a badge of honour. 15:40:04 :D 15:40:59 Now I need to figure out how to log into CDO using Linux 15:41:28 it's easy 15:41:37 get openssh 15:41:53 You guys aren't included in Linux Mint distro :[ 15:41:54 there's a nice config for cao/cdo/rhf somewhere 15:42:06 ssh crawl@crawl.develz.org -i ~/.ssh/cao_key 15:42:20 felirx: just ssh cdo if you have the config where is it 15:42:52 I don't think there's a distribution that doesn't install a ssh client by default. 15:42:59 ??ssh[2] 15:42:59 ssh[2/3]: Are you on *NIX and tired of entering passwords for the main SSH login? Copy sorear's $HOME/.ssh/config http://angband.pl/crawl/config The ssh_key that might be needed is available at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key 15:43:20 slow down guys 15:43:21 and if you used a minimal install, you can always add it 15:43:24 I don't know how to use this crap 15:45:04 well do I need openSSH or whatever the default one is? 15:46:44 also I have no idea where to put the ssh key on Linux to use that command line 15:47:05 ~ = your home dir 15:47:18 I see 15:47:19 which is located at /home/(the name of your account) 15:47:41 ok so /home/vandal is a directory I could put it in 15:48:01 try opening up a command prompt and entering 'pwd' 15:48:06 yes, use openssh 15:48:08 it will tell you where you are 15:48:08 yes, you would have to modify the path in that case 15:48:12 you want /home/vandal/.ssh/ probably 15:48:13 oh ok I'm already in there 15:48:16 if you use the -i flag 15:48:30 .ssh is the default openssh config folder 15:48:42 you don't have to store keys there, but it makes sense 15:48:43 easiest way is to just open terminal, hit cd ~/.ssh/ and then wget http://crawl.akrasiac.org/cao_key 15:48:49 (assuming you have wget) :) 15:49:30 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:26 I saved it to home/vandal/crawl 15:52:17 huh. my permissions are too open 15:52:23 restrict them 15:52:26 "this private key will be ignored" 15:52:43 chmod 744 filename 15:52:44 chmod 600 KEYFILE 15:52:50 I do 600 too 15:52:51 or whatever it is asking for 15:53:12 this is all so very alien 15:53:22 by default, files on Linux are readable by all other user 15:53:35 openssh insists that private keys actually be private 15:53:42 ah ok there we go 15:53:48 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:03 logged in as Vandal on CDO now 15:54:04 Thanks 15:54:08 (most systems these days have 1 user...) 15:54:35 oh hey mine is actually 400 15:54:53 hmm 15:54:57 at least on this machine anyways 15:54:58 my settings are messed up I think 15:55:08 Is there a way to reset your config on CDO? 15:55:15 Vandal: change the terminal's settings, it is probably screwy because of that 15:55:21 for example, colours might show up wrong 15:55:30 Vandal: it's in the advanced options iirc 15:55:40 well my walls weren't showing up as a good icon 15:55:51 you used ibm? 15:55:58 yeah you probably want to change that to unicode 15:56:04 ah there we go 15:56:06 reset now 15:56:26 wow this is awesome 15:56:34 I'm playing Crawl on Linux like a real pro computer guy :3 15:57:06 it takes a bit of getting used to if you haven't played terminal version before 15:57:22 I was playing on CDO before using PuTTy 15:57:24 hint: playing crawl on linux is not really different from playing it elsewhere 15:57:40 I know it isn't different, but it is different at the same time! 15:58:23 I have decided this laptop is dedicated to crawl from now on :O 15:58:33 dedicated to crawl? 15:58:36 Yeah 15:58:48 well it is a EEEpc thing 15:58:54 not a real laptop, what are they called, netbooks? 15:59:19 you probably don't need such a fancy operating system if you're only crawling 15:59:30 fancy? 15:59:37 fancy 15:59:39 Win7 64-bit is fancy 15:59:46 this is some free thing off the web 16:00:14 linux mint comes with a desktop environment and lots of sugar, no? 16:00:31 you probably have no use for most of that if you're just crawling 16:00:39 yes, mint is quite nice and easy 16:02:03 I'm just amazed it works 16:02:19 Every laptop or old computer I ever tried to convert to Linux ran into crippling driver issues 16:02:45 My wireless internet worked on this without me having to do anything at all 16:03:17 Really? I haven't encountered any driver issues 16:12:31 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:40 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:12 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:22 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:35 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:35 -!- Noom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:44:56 <5EXABT4Z1> 03kilobyte * rc33b22068f67 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Make transformations affect stealth. 16:53:42 what happened to the cia- bots? 16:55:43 there was some fun with freenode, i guess that's their equivalent of underscores at the end 16:58:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:55 -!- violetj_ is now known as violetj 17:01:45 kilobyte: gave them a racial factor, or what? 17:17:56 morning 17:20:29 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:44 -!- eith has left ##crawl-dev 17:30:41 scrolls of enchant weapon have no message if you use them on a staff of channeling 17:44:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:50:15 i wonder how well a spell would work that gave you some bonus based on a certain glyph - like cast it on an orc, and all orcs on screen have (EFFECT) 17:50:54 make a debuff that spreads between monsters 17:50:56 a plague 17:52:34 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * rdc4475624267 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Properly display a message when trying to uncurse an uncursed staff. 17:53:32 Eronarn: Genus would be better, because glyphs are... yeah. 18:00:58 jrs83b the Charm-Maker (L7 SpEn) ASSERT(mon->type != -1 && mon->type != MONS_NO_MONSTER) in 'fight.cc' at line 2901 failed on turn 6953. (Ossuary) 18:01:34 ??Genus 18:01:34 genus[1/1]: Monsters are arranged into genera (plural of genus.) Monsters in the same genus are represented by the same letter. The main game significance of this is that different monsters in the same genus won't be distinguished by Detect Monsters. 18:03:52 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:48 !learn edit genus s/\.\)/)./ 18:04:48 genus[1/1]: Monsters are arranged into genera (plural of genus). Monsters in the same genus are represented by the same letter. The main game significance of this is that different monsters in the same genus won't be distinguished by Detect Monsters. 18:05:21 Why does it have to clarify what the plural of genus is? 18:06:19 because otherwise someone would say "genuses" 18:06:25 and that would be shameful 18:06:35 geni 18:07:20 Well, genuses is acceptable. 18:07:42 geni is not because genus is a a third declension neutral noun. 18:07:47 As opposed to a third declension masculine noun. 18:08:03 And the neutral 3rd declensions have some very confusing rules about declination. 18:15:38 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21:33 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * r30171817a8ac 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Allow greater wraiths to show up in the Abyss. 18:21:34 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * r7e61870276ef 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files in 5 dirs): Rename greater wraiths to eidolons. 18:23:42 <5EXABT4Z1> 03j-p-e-g * r08e121d30c57 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add the ground structure for a skill management tab in Tiles. 18:23:44 <5EXABT4Z1> 03j-p-e-g * rf913ad54eef5 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (66 files in 2 dirs): Add Denzi's skill tiles. 18:23:45 <5EXABT4Z1> 03j-p-e-g * r126f1aa7acf6 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-gui.txt dc-skills.txt): Add skill tiles to the gui sheet. 18:23:45 <5EXABT4Z1> 03j-p-e-g * rc26c3b70b77b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Hook the skill tiles into the tab region, yay! Toggling works now. 18:25:35 yay eidolons 18:26:42 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 18:27:43 Pseudonut (L12 FeBe) ASSERT(probe != attack_constraints.connection_constraints->end()) in 'mon-abil.cc' at line 1569 failed. (Sprint) 18:28:27 how do I make a desktop shortcut to launch Crawl CDO? 18:28:37 I use the line "ssh crawl@crawl.develz.org -i ~/crawl/cao_key" 18:28:39 in a terminal 18:28:46 erm 18:28:49 hiyo due 18:28:51 I'm linuxing! 18:28:55 What window manager? 18:29:03 You should be able to make a shortcut that executes a command. 18:29:10 I'm in Linux Mint 18:29:13 I think it uses GNOME 18:29:21 Right click on the desk top and see what you get. 18:29:32 well I made something called a "launcher" and it doesn't work 18:30:01 Vandal: gnome-terminal -x ssh hastur 18:30:15 ?? 18:30:17 where 'ssh hastur' is sshing to my server 18:30:27 oh? 18:30:28 ssh crawl@... would ssh to CDO 18:30:32 got ya 18:31:28 "gnome-terminal -x ssh crawl@crawl.develz.org -i ~/crawl/cao_key" 18:31:57 you might need to spell out /home/vandal/crawl/cao_key 18:32:09 I think you're right sorear 18:32:41 fwiw, it this way because using a launcher doesn't by default open a terminal 18:32:46 depends on what user you're running it as 18:33:01 so you have to actually have it run gnome-terminal, with -x, which has it run that command 18:33:02 woo hoo it worked 18:33:02 Thanks much guys 18:33:28 What is -x? execute? 18:33:45 -x/--execute 18:34:06 got ya 18:34:13 Linux is pretty boss, I just need some practice with it 18:34:32 lifehacker has some good articles covering basics 18:34:43 ah 18:37:13 Vandal: be smart and pick up Ctrl-R in the console faster than I did! It's extremely convenient. (After Ctrl-R, you type something and you'll get the last command typed in matching the string.) 18:44:07 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:41 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:41 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Home of the Vi-Kings! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 18:44:52 a neat one i just learned today: ^foo^bar to run the last command but replacing foo with bar 18:44:52 aha 18:44:52 Considering using roxterm though. 18:44:52 Or xfce4-terminal. 18:48:36 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:18 I should spend more time hanging with you smarty computer guys 18:54:31 but, I did already buy Cataclysm for myself, my best friend, and my girlfriend 18:54:33 >_> 18:55:30 wow, the same for something like 8 years now 18:56:20 <5EXABT4Z1> 03j-p-e-g * r5d9b1a75836e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reuse air elemental tile as placeholder for the tornado spell tile. 19:00:27 8 years? 19:00:44 Oh you're playing WoW with friend and gf too? 19:12:09 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:07 due can you make portal mimics spawn in the abyss, as exits from the abyss 19:27:18 ... yes 19:27:23 but that's just *nasty* 19:27:25 and awesome 19:28:16 would make for an amusing exit vault too 19:29:28 it should be quite rare imo 19:30:02 exit vaults are already rare. 19:30:24 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:37:30 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:23 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:00 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:03:25 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:49 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:23:04 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:25:12 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:39 @?? elephant 20:48:39 elephant (03Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 52-83 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Damage: 20, 5 | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 430. 21:02:14 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:36 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:20 <5EXABT4Z1> 03dolorous * r422ab5e585af 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix wording. 22:20:07 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:17 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:05 -!- hashc_ has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:57:11 -!- Zao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:40 -!- Zao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:40 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:20 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Do fish get thirsty?] 23:28:46 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 23:29:29 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:28 -!- TGWi has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:53 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:00 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev