00:11:23 -!- minced has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:26 Windows development builds on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2286-g8c8a986 00:49:06 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-2286-g8c8a986 (31.9) 00:55:38 goodbye sweet haste, we had good times 00:59:02 nooo, my DG knows haste :( 01:04:12 Was it nerfy mc-nerfed? 01:06:11 due: this has t least the haste nerf, maybe also the ench split 01:06:21 nice 01:06:22 though... i guess if it has the ench split i won't be able to transfer anyways? 01:06:25 ench split is in a branch though 01:06:32 oh, right 01:30:58 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:07 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:17 does that mean that CDO now has liches that are slower than kobolds? 01:45:59 @??lich 01:46:00 lich (15L) | Speed: 10 | HD: 20 | Health: 57-97 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 1513(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(293), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 3413 | Sp: b.cold (3d29), paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d34), teleport self / b.draining (3d24), animate dead, summon undead, throw frost (3d11), crystal spear (3d40) / b.fire (3d29), confuse, haste, b.dr.. 01:46:02 @??kobold 01:46:02 kobold (07K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 4 | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1. 01:46:06 @??orb of fire 01:46:06 orb of fire (05*) | Speed: 20 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 04hellfire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 09poison+++ | XP: 11717 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), polymorph other, fireball (3d43). 01:46:18 is gretell automatically updated when CDO is? 01:46:22 no 01:46:23 No. 01:46:34 unless that change was reverted, yes 01:46:37 fiends slower than kobolds too 01:46:54 due: kilobyte randomly changed tons of speeds to nonsensical values 01:47:08 lich, fiend, etc are all speed 9 now 01:47:13 yeah, it's really awful 01:49:43 * due shrugs. 01:54:32 I like the use of 'randomly' and 'nonsensical' there 01:56:01 a nerf to some of those makes sense, but making them slow feels like the wrong way to go about it 01:56:56 monky: i don't think we should necessarily aim for exactly the same balance 01:57:27 individual monsters don't have to be as hard as they were, just the game itself 01:58:02 if some get harder, but some get easier, that's fine, as long as they all stay reasonably difficult (since this only matters for tough monsters, basically) 01:59:08 i'm fine with making greater mummies slower, for instance, since monster mummies are generally slow 01:59:43 whereas liches are probably fine remaining at 10 02:00:22 they only show up 1 or 2 at a time, and are usually pretty easily escaped from, so haste just means you might have to back off due to summonspam 02:13:41 sorear: perhaps I really meant that he arbitrarily chose a set of monsters and slowed them to speed values that don't make sense in comparison with monsters that aren't in that set 02:14:18 example: golden dragon is now the slowest living dragon 02:15:45 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 02:15:50 liches are slow despite being the most advanced type of undead in the game (and player liches aren't slow) 02:18:30 and some equally dangerous monsters (example: electric golem) didn't have speed changed at all 02:26:15 electric golems are considerably worse than plain liches imho 02:27:27 yes, definitely 02:27:35 and yet their speed is unchanged 02:35:10 ^This sounds insane. Not *necessarily* bad, but... insane. 03:32:43 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:03:50 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:07 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:17 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:37:58 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:08 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:10:29 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:55 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:02 mornings 05:13:55 morning dpeg, are the crawl server loads already down because of devnull? ;-) 05:17:01 no, nanowrimo 05:17:03 :p 05:18:01 We'll see how many players devnull draws. 05:18:44 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:30 Ah, some kind of nethack tournament? 05:20:22 yeah 05:20:25 the nethack tournament 05:20:36 THE nethack tournament :) 05:20:42 that is what i said 05:20:47 i just couldn't be fucked to do the proper capitalisation 05:21:25 Had some lad in another channel be quite up in arms shouting about it, couldn't understand what it was :) 05:22:48 it's much more exciting than crawl tournament. you never know if the servers will be up till it starts and if the challenges are working and what programming bug in the new challenge will be exploitable or will kill you :) 05:23:21 :P 05:25:10 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:15 -!- Napkin has quit [Quit: Changing server] 05:51:40 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:48 there is also much more trashtalk 05:55:03 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:16 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:57 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:01 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 06:40:16 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:22 Ending a transformation resets breath weapons (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2796) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 06:46:55 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:23 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02:28 >>> Unfortunately, dpeg likes shooting in melee. Any argument that the game would be more interesting with 'disarming' will be "refuted" on the grounds that it's realistic, and something that's realistic can't be a good game mechanic. So we're stuck with this, master archers which are more dangerous in melee than master fencers, and so on. I guess dpeg means you should be dealing with ranged attacks by dealing more damage and having more AC, not realistic ta 07:02:48 whossat? 07:03:27 A comment by b0rsuk somewhere in the wiki. 07:04:26 It's of no use at all if I reply there... the man has a fixed mindset. 07:04:48 Fuck him. 07:05:22 The flaming is quite annoying, more so if it slowly crawls into the wiki. 07:05:54 Just delete it. 07:05:56 Doesn't matter what b0rsuk thinks, but his comments will influence readers. 07:05:59 Better yet, link me to it and I'll delete it. 07:06:08 That's no good either :) 07:06:20 Why not? 07:06:31 We aren't running a charity service where b0rsuk can say whatever he likes. 07:06:53 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:existing_monsters#manticore 07:06:58 The original idea is not bad, btw. 07:07:55 back later 07:08:26 * due whistles. 07:09:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:24 hey syllogism 07:19:18 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:36 hi 07:55:28 03galehar * rdcf7dfafb3b6 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Revert "Properly cancel amnesia scroll without wasting the scroll" 07:55:29 03galehar * rf6063e863778 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc: Protect the amnesia interface against typo 07:55:32 03galehar * rcffb13d6d5aa 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: replace tabs by spaces 07:55:36 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:53:41 03galehar * re7f5e1f4d753 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Fix the colouring of permafood 08:59:26 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:44 galehar: hi! 08:59:50 hi 08:59:50 galehar: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:59:56 !messages 08:59:56 (1/3) TGWi said (16h 58m 50s ago): reskilling fails if the target skill is set to not train; it gives the normal message but doesn't change either skill 08:59:59 hehe, lured you into replying 09:00:01 * dpeg whistles 09:00:15 !messages 09:00:16 (1/2) dpeg said (16h 37m 48s ago): An idea for the reskilling interface, tell me what you think of it. After 'ab', show the skills like in 'm' screen (two columns). Selecting a skill highlights it somehow and changes c + Armour Skill 15 ( 5%) 09:00:42 !messages 09:00:42 (1/1) dpeg said (16h 37m 44s ago): An idea for the reskilling interface, tell me what you think of it. After 'ab', show the skills like in 'm' screen (two columns). Selecting a skill highlights it somehow and changes "c + Armour Skill 3" to "c + Armour Skill 3 -> 12". 09:00:42 galehar: read next one, please 09:00:48 2010-11-01 13:08 Show differences to current revisions Old revisions Tweaks to existing monsters – this is not a dpeg-thrashing forum, get over it already bookofjude (60.241.101.9) 09:00:53 due: thanks! 09:01:13 galehar: do you see what I mean? 09:01:28 galehar: my wording is clumsy. 09:01:50 when you select, you know how much you're gonna lose/gain? 09:01:54 yes 09:01:59 tricky 09:02:11 The point is that selecting the donating skill changes all other skill lines to print "[skill name] [current] -> [after reskill]" 09:02:22 galehar: because the m screen is so borked? 09:02:32 no, I don't use it 09:02:58 is to know what is going to change without changing it 09:03:31 might be possible 09:03:36 I'll look into it 09:03:48 galehar: I tested your interface in wizmode, of course 09:04:14 I realise it might be difficult to reuse the existing screen 09:04:45 about tgwi message to me 09:05:15 when you transfer to a disabled skill, very little points are transfered 09:05:21 the disabling is effective 09:05:32 TGW suggested some kind of feedback, e.g. a prompt "Reskilling from [donating skill] [now] [later] to [receiving skill] [now] [later]" but I think it's much better to see it all at a glance 09:05:45 galehar: ah, that's bad :) 09:06:05 I thought it might be a good way to control the transfer if you don't want to transfer too much 09:06:47 and it worked when the disabling was only x4 09:07:08 but now that I have strengthen it to 3+skill... 09:07:32 anyway, I'll ignore the disabling when transfering 09:13:43 have to go 09:13:45 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 09:15:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:29 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:16 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:56 -!- RjY has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:00 -!- Soadreqm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:11 -!- RjY has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:36 -!- RjY has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:39 -!- RjY has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:17 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:55 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:47 03kilobyte * r9565a76022b7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Haste nerf: adjust electric golems which I somehow missed. 11:12:48 03kilobyte * r735b435cf68c 10/crawl-ref/source/actor-los.cc: Fix a crash in tiles with wizard x-ray / Ash scrying out of map bounds. 11:17:36 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:45 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:21 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:23 -!- MadCoyote has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:22 -!- Spray has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:34 !tell galehar Regarding reskilling disabled skills, I see where you are coming from. But I believe that we'll get more complaints about players who "forgot to turn on the skill prior to reskilling" than players consciously using disabled reskilling (especially given the piety cost). 12:07:35 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:28:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:31:30 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 12:32:26 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 12:34:10 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:07 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:08 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 13:19:54 hello hello folks 13:25:05 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:03 I'm curious, is there anywhere where I can see a list of what keys are currently used? More specifically I'm looking for a list of keys that are *unused*, if that sort of thing exists 13:31:15 Hi 13:32:37 hello there dpeg, my internet problems that have plagued me since friday seem to have finally sorted themselves out 13:33:19 cool! 13:33:40 There is some file where all commands are listed and which is redefinable 13:36:35 Wensley_: cmd-keys.h 13:37:33 thank you, that saves me a lot of time... I probably would have looked in all the cc and d files before I got to h :P 13:42:42 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:54:26 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:49 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 14:03:23 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:18 arxale for president 14:13:57 yes, arxale is doing great patches 14:14:11 I hope one of our coders finds time to push them into trunk. 14:15:54 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:56 looking at the ench split, crusaders have no way to train for haste and enchanters have no way to train for invisibility? 14:33:18 st_: there was a discussion about the split yesterday 14:33:31 the good/bad enchantment split is better I think 14:34:06 Ah I see it on my scrollback, reading... 14:34:06 -!- Wensley_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:00 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:12 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:05 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:34:19 where is that site that logs ##crawl-dev discussions? 15:34:42 http://tozt.net/crawl 15:34:47 he one in the topic? 15:34:50 the 15:36:06 oh hey, it is in the topic. never noticed it there before :P 15:55:02 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 15:55:13 anyone know whether galehar got my message? 15:57:22 yes 15:57:38 about 7 hours ago 15:58:16 thanks 15:59:11 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:06:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:20:56 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:07 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:40 03galehar * r2d7fc4fd9c88 10/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc: Revert "Felids: don't show rods in the new wield-evoke menu." 17:18:42 03galehar * r53d647aa19de 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc it_use3.cc): Revert "add rods and staves to the V screen (and auto-wield)" 17:18:49 03galehar * rd1e72014533e 10/crawl-ref/source/it_use3.cc: Revert "fix crash when autowielding misc and cancelling unwield" 17:18:50 03galehar * rab929b08b5ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (delay.cc enum.h initfile.cc it_use3.cc): Revert "wield and evoke take 2 turns" 17:18:51 03galehar * rb589a355285c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc it_use3.cc): Revert "auto-wield miscellaneous items on evoke" 17:18:51 03galehar * r4f26cdd9c711 10/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc: Remove misc items from the wield menu 17:18:53 03galehar * re6cfbb6c6bf9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc item_use.cc): Revert "miscellaneous items need to be wielded to be evoked" 17:18:59 03galehar * r57fed5c8f43c 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/crawl_manual.txt source/command.cc): Fix the documentation about misc item evocation 17:26:51 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:45 03galehar * rfc1a262d300a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc skills2.cc): Ignore skill disabling when reskilling 18:10:37 03galehar * r4591ae249edc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills.cc skills2.cc): Remove some useless static casts 18:35:39 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 18:36:03 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:09 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:07 -!- casmith789 is now known as cas\unfoog 20:08:25 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:49 -!- OG17 has quit [Quit: OG17] 20:13:30 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:03 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:36:56 -!- RjY has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:14 -!- RjY has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:25 description on items hasn't been updated to clarify the new max-enchantment rules :/ 20:48:29 just wasted some EA scrolls 20:50:53 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:14 there are new max-enchantment rules? were these just added? 21:00:54 I don't see a commit about this 21:01:29 robe of the archmagi is actually usable now? 21:01:39 hurrah 21:01:55 (your comment inspired me to read changelogs for once) 21:22:01 -!- Spray has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:14 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:31:58 Apparently armour can only be enchanted up to its base AC? 21:37:15 Eronarn: that seems like an interface glitch, I feel like armor that is already at its max enchantment shouldn't even show up as an option for an EA scroll 21:37:28 hm 21:38:26 due: you agree? 21:38:39 no 21:38:44 it was a 'hm, i wonder if i have any messages' 21:39:10 !message due you agree? 21:39:31 :P 21:41:15 hashc: i'm pretty sure robe of the archmagi is actually overpowered now 21:43:12 ??robe of the archmagi 21:43:12 robe of the archmagi[1/2]: Enhances necromancy, conjuration, enchantment, and summoning. And acts as 2/3 of a ring of wizardry. Incredibly powerful, but crippled by causing exp gain to be reduced by 75%. Keep it somewhere safe and put it on right before Zot (except Zot has the best exp in the game...). Wear a robe of resistance instead! 21:43:54 s/Incredibly powerful.*/./ 21:44:17 (terrible at regexes) 21:46:23 -!- MadCoyote has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:35 -!- Spray has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:00 what was changed? 22:14:18 with archmagi? no longer any drawback 22:14:24 and it doesn't double enhance haunt 22:16:47 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:56 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:21 what's the reasoning behind the schools that wizardry enhances 22:21:42 not wizardry, robe of the archmagi, rather 22:21:53 why not tmut and tloc? 22:32:02 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:32:07 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:04 I'm trying to refactor travel.cc/travel.h for gnome autoexplore. Is anyone familiar with the travel.cc beast? 22:33:54 Seems like for a very, very basic version, I could modify is_traversible to return "true" for breathable rock instead of just performing an array lookup. 22:34:17 (goal is to allow (g)nomes to explore shallow rock with autoexplore) 22:34:46 oh yo minced 22:34:51 hi 22:34:55 what's up? 22:35:03 not much, haven't seen you in a while 22:35:14 yeah, I've been swamped. 22:35:24 me too, and my internet's been out to boot 22:35:42 I posted my second revision of nome attunement changes on the wiki - incorporated your feedback and dpeg's. 22:36:13 nice, I'll check it out right now... very excited 22:36:26 I was, however, caught betwixt conflicting suggestions with regard to rock-swimming noise levels. 22:36:42 Dpeg wanted a stealth boost, you wanted noise - and you both had decent reasons 22:37:09 I think you had stronger reasons tbh, but I ended up going with a mild stealth boost 22:37:13 -!- blackflare has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:56 b/c I nerfed the hell out of wall-swimming in every other respect. 22:38:10 no spellcasting, no evocations, no launchers. 22:38:51 If wall-swimming has really big movement-based advantages (the case you pointed out definitely highlights one), that will at least make the first version interesting. 22:42:13 I'm just really, really interested in ensuring that gnomes can retain the ability to enter on one side of a wall and exit on the other. I've read kb's comments and noted his concerns, but there's no point to this race if it can't at least do that 22:44:05 agreed. 22:44:19 Don't worry, the gnomes can still do that. 22:44:53 Passwall can do that, in less time, so it's very hard to argue it's overpowered for gnomes. 22:45:01 I feel like we have a chance to make something *really* cool here, and I feel like we have a real chance to encourage gnomes to be in rock very often without making them broken. :) 22:45:46 I don't want just "another race, but they can go in rock sometimes". I want gnomes to be the new deep dwarves, requiring players to rethink the game entirely 22:46:16 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Quit: exit] 22:46:33 Ideally most races would do that :) if we're going to encourage radical differences in races, we can start here 22:49:42 My revision mostly tries to ensure that it isn't horribly painful for nomes to autoexplore through rock. 22:49:57 As an upside, rock-swimming doesn't carry horribly painful lasting penalties like extended slowing 22:50:05 nomes are just made slow to begin with instead 22:50:42 Do you think the revision preserves at least some of the interesting uses of wall-swimming? 22:50:59 I'm kind of vague on the changes actually, I'd like to ask some questions 22:51:18 how does attunement work differently now? 22:52:10 say I'm not attuned at all, and I want to walk into a rock wall. what happens? 22:52:21 it just takes an extra turn 22:52:26 that's all 22:52:47 attunement basically changes at half the previous rate so sprinting across large rooms isn't painful. 22:53:16 the AC boost is preserved, the HP boost is gone, there's a small EV bonus now 22:53:28 and it takes a turn to exit walls now 22:54:33 I saw the EV boost, I think it makes sense thematically. could it get its own message whenever you dodge while in a wall, such as "you sink into the rock to evade the blow!"? 22:54:47 yes, sounds good 22:54:59 not sure how hard that is, I'm not trying to ask too much :P 22:55:19 oh, that's easy. 22:55:24 I know there's code for that with the phase shift spell, and something like that with hitting enemies who are confused 22:56:10 any feature that is reasonably similar to an already-implemented feature is reasonably easy to implement itself due to reverse-engineering. 22:57:39 so let me clarify here: I'm standing next to a wall, and I press the direction key to move into it. I spend one turn attuning. I spend another turn attuning. I spend one turn moving. but all the player sees is the character moving into a wall. if I'm attacked in the middle of this process, is this automatic procedure interrupted? 22:57:58 no 22:58:12 (don't worry, only takes one turn to attune to a rock wall) 22:58:16 ah I see 22:58:27 sorry, attunement *drops* at half the previous rate- should have made that clear. 22:58:41 Yes, entering rock wall = 2 turns paralysis, leaving = 1 turn paralysis 22:58:54 it is actually quite scary. 22:59:11 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:41 ah, so it's just paralysis. that could be good, depending on if we want to encourage people to not move into walls in combat. another option would be to interrupt attunement if you are attacked, but leave you half attuned, so that you can easily either resume moving into the wall or fight back 23:01:20 so the attunement is interruptible but the "phasing" into/out of wall isn't 23:02:38 I wasn't making a distinction between attunement and phasing... as far as I'm aware, "phasing" is just the turn spent moving into the wall, no different from moving from any one space into any other (perhaps I am still a little unclear on some things) 23:02:50 yeah, true - that makes sense 23:07:49 I think we're envisioning two different things here... I'm suddenly realizing that perhaps you were thinking of gnomes entering rock as them slowly "melding" into the rock over a series of turns 23:08:14 whereas I was thinking "they make themselves into rock, and then slide into the wall in a single move" 23:11:38 um, are people here aware of the fact that interruption is configurable 23:11:45 interrupt_ACTIVITYNAME = 23:11:56 # ACTIVITYNAME can now be done in combat 23:14:36 thanks, sorear :) 23:14:57 I have that in my rc for memorize, passwall, iirc 23:15:48 anyways, you can't effectively nerf something by saying "it defaults to interruptable" 23:16:19 I thought I remembered people complaining that eating specifically *wasn't* interruptible, perhaps this has changed 23:16:23 that's like trying to buff a monster by making it a floor-colored . 23:16:39 eating isn't interruptable 23:18:02 sorear: with regards to interruption with gnomes, I wasn't trying to nerf anything, just trying to help improve the interface 23:20:03 speaking of that, minced, currently the only way a new player would realize that there is a slight time lapse between trying to enter the wall and actually entering the wall would be by seeing an enemy be closer than it should be after entering rock for the first time in combat. 23:20:25 sorear: interruption should really not be configurable btw 23:20:37 it's a pretty big gameplay effect 23:20:51 perhaps there should be a message to this effect after entering a wall, such as "you spend a short moment becoming attuned to the rock" or "you spend a long moment becoming attuned to the stone" 23:21:14 noted 23:21:16 will do 23:22:41 -!- hashc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:42 giving them unbreathing is interesting. what does it do, specifically? does it just allow traversal of deep water and immunity to poison clouds? 23:30:15 that and curare immunity 23:30:19 it 23:30:33 is pretty effing strong 23:31:10 I haven't heard any plans to make undead races unbreathing, oddly 23:31:22 perhaps because it is new with grey dracs 23:31:30 (as far as I know) 23:32:06 the undead have always been immune to poison and curare 23:32:23 but I think the big deal is the deep water traversal 23:32:57 I may have to change unbreathing, deep water traversal on a race that already can walk through walls is kind of strong 23:33:04 it will make swamp less of a nightmare though 23:34:47 treeswimming 23:34:53 if we do assume that the most important part of unbreathing is the advantage from water traversal, I think I'd prefer it if we got rid of unbreathing on gnomes on the grounds that this race is the "earth" race (and would not feel at home in one of the other classical "elements") 23:36:01 treeswimming is not allowed btw 23:36:14 just rock, stone, green crystal and translucent variants 23:36:38 probably also the fleshy walls in cig's wizlab since they're relabeled rock (eeeeeeeeew) 23:36:40 why green crystal? 23:37:01 it's the easiest to LRD, I guess 23:37:15 there are a lot of random wall types, I've just been using "green crystal" as a catchall, in reality we're going to have to consider them all individually (slime walls, for example, shouldn't work) 23:37:31 unless you want to die a quick death 23:37:43 slime gnomes 23:38:21 can anyone think of any other non-standard wall types? wizlabs might all need to be handled specially, cigotuvi's flesh walls shouldn't be traversable 23:38:48 wax 23:39:10 right, wax should be out 23:39:38 it might be complicated by the fact that I'm not sure if cigotuvi's flesh walls are just renamed rock walls 23:39:50 there are other vaults with renamed walls 23:39:59 like iron grates in at least that one entry vault 23:40:10 crystal pillar in that one orb chamber 23:40:14 are they renamed metal walls or rock walls? 23:40:23 (iron grates) 23:40:38 wait, why would you know 23:40:44 sorry if I ask stupid questions 23:40:52 pretty sure it's transparent rock 23:41:02 right, that would make sense 23:41:27 crystal pillar is renamed rock 23:41:48 minced: is there an easy way to see if walls have been specially renamed by the vault designer? if there is, perhaps we should disallow any movement through renamed walls 23:42:03 nah 23:42:11 that's what I was afraid of 23:42:16 if it behaves like rock to digging, it should behave like rock to swimming 23:42:25 except for slime walls maybe 23:42:27 that's a good way to put it. 23:42:41 slime walls are well-known enough that they can be excepted 23:43:26 you make a good point about the consistency of digging vs movement, in that case it's really up to the vault designer to correct it if they care enough 23:44:07 a slightly better rule might be lrd power required to bust 23:44:10 -!- Spray has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:22 that way it would also nicely include stone & variants, and green crystal 23:44:29 unless you want to remove green crystal swimming 23:44:47 in which case good luck finding a nice rule 23:44:48 I'm not married to it, I just thought it was a neat idea (and it might be unbalanced anyway) 23:46:44 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:47:58 as long as there aren't too many different base types of wall it shouldn't be a big deal. I'm thinking there are only the following base types (to my limited knowledge): rock, stone, metal, slime, wax. permarock 23:48:28 oh, and green crystal 23:48:38 and transparent rock/stone 23:50:07 we already have rules for all of those but slime and wax, which should simply be the same as metal and permarock (no pass) 23:54:20 green crystal is the only weird case. transparent rock/stone walls are just treated like rock/stone, with perhaps an additional fun effect 23:54:48 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]