01:30:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:36:46 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin 01:38:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:48 -!- monky has quit [Quit: hello] 02:30:37 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:42:41 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:58 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:50:27 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:36 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:17 -!- Kurper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:45 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:06 fun thing: the recent "Ashenzari" crasher is in fact a Detect Item + map_knowledge bug, and it predates removing rods of divination 03:45:14 (tiles only) 03:46:10 it shows that no one ever bothered with detecting items, save for Pan runners, who tend to be top players and thus play console 03:47:06 that last clause makes me curious 03:47:24 I mean, most experienced players play on servers 03:47:29 do we actually have any data correlating skill level to UI? 03:47:36 there's no N78291 or elliptic among tile players 03:47:37 if so, do we have any explanation? 03:47:59 sorear: that poll a year ago 03:49:10 the thing is, if anyone would cast Detect Items in tiles, it would crash, and we got no such reports 03:50:39 fascinating 03:54:18 it is still on the list of Xom's spells too, but the "random spell" Xom effect happens damn rarely, and the list of eligible spells is huge -- and it would have to actually detect something new 03:54:43 not to mention that Xom sees almost no use after he got nerfed into uselessness 04:00:53 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:24 Why hasn't anybody added Galehar to the nickname map yet? 04:02:41 the CIA stuff? 04:02:48 They have 04:02:50 it's been done, but it isn't working 04:02:52 I just don't believe sf has been updated 04:03:13 You know updating SF is manual, right/ 04:03:38 I do 04:03:44 I said something about it earlier 04:05:47 well, but does any of us here know how to do it? 04:07:57 yes, it's in git-hooks/README.txt 04:08:22 everyone with a commit bit also has shell access to the git repository 04:09:07 I did it for Twinge... 04:09:37 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:55 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:53 dpeg: hi! 04:30:57 Hi! 04:31:01 !seen due 04:31:02 I last saw due at Wed Oct 20 09:03:44 2010 UTC (27m 18s ago) saying I said something about it earlier on ##crawl-dev. 04:31:15 due: Hi! Got my message? 04:31:48 dpeg: you wanted Detect Items to show useless items in a different way than non-useless ones 04:31:54 yes 04:32:00 You think that's a good approach? 04:32:27 dpeg: I have to re-do the detection part due to crashes on tiles anyway (well, I could just use a static tile, but that would disallow any extensions of that kind) 04:32:29 It will require some thought about how to distinguish these classes... I am willing to come up with a proposal. 04:32:48 let's come up with a list of classes we want to tell apart 04:33:03 ah, by classes I don't mean item types :) 04:33:12 but keep in mind that any class would need: 1. a tile, 2. a glyph+color combination on console 04:33:51 I was thinking of just two versions: useless (.) and useful (}) and yes, there will be edgy cases, but it'll be a great improvement nonetheless. 04:35:20 dpeg: Yes! 04:35:25 that's doable from both tiles and console's point of view 04:36:06 I mean, drawing a tile is actually easier 04:36:25 kilobyte: I think it's best to restrict "useful" to really good items (or really strong monsters). So randarts, wands of hasting, scrolls of blinking would be "useful", but many other (even worthy of pickup items) not. 04:36:32 due: good :) 04:36:51 dpeg: that would make it three classes, right? 04:37:35 kilobyte: no no 04:37:52 We don't have to tell players how we call . and } classes internally. 04:38:00 our current marking would make that pretty bad, though... like, we mark scrolls of fear as a "very good item", while it has only marginal use 04:38:04 They will learn by playing that } = hot stuff 04:38:14 useless = from a pan grinder's perspective ;) 04:38:34 kilobyte: ah, I wanted to come up with my own system for this distinction... 04:38:40 sorear: anything harder than, say, killer bees, resists it in most cases 04:38:48 ...because the player's level/situation matters 04:39:04 I've used fear on a troll yesterday. 04:39:45 it's a gamble. You either waste a turn or gain one (you're not likely to scare them for longer). 04:40:18 and gambles in tight spots are more of a "hail Mary" thing rather than rational play 04:40:55 You don't have to use Fear in the very last moment. 04:41:02 Can try it before that. 04:44:57 it's a useful escape item in the early game. Maybe it can be marked as "very good" until the player reach XL12 or so 04:45:29 I used it in Zot once 04:46:10 did it work? 04:46:15 Galehar: yes, I was thinking of using XL 04:46:41 on moths of wraths perhaps? 04:52:22 having moths a couple of squares away does you little good 04:53:02 draconians have notoriously low MR so you may have some luck, but I'd still say it's a waste of time and precious item slot 04:54:34 they can sometimes be useful later on, the point is that they are a "very good item" only in the early game 04:55:22 So my plan was to come up with a hand-rolled _and_ XL-dependent list of "good" item (for Ash detection purposes). 04:56:21 It would always include randarts, blinking, fog, haste, speed.... and would early on but not later also include fear, identify, low tier wands etc. 04:56:33 The question is: What are items you want to rush to? 04:58:57 the system should be used both for ash and for the yellow coloring 05:05:01 well, not exactly. yellow is only emergency items which for example doesn't include acquirement 05:05:09 but it should include it (less code duplication) 05:09:02 we could add fogs, id and wands to good_items (but only below certain XL for some items) 05:09:43 and then ash detect emergency, good items and artefacts 05:11:42 * Galehar leaves to have lunch 05:11:49 might be indeed better 05:20:33 03kilobyte * r475154385fe9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h map_knowledge.h show.cc tilepick.cc tilepick.h): Fake an item to fix tiles crash on Xom's/Ashenzari's item detection. 05:20:58 Galehar: fog is useful to the end 05:21:08 so should be an emergency item 05:23:04 due: are you busy? 05:24:15 due: I tried coding Lua support for pressure plates (-> grate traps, casket traps, spiders jumping at you, etc), but copying code that works for door_opened doesn't work 05:24:57 due: since you already know these parts and I'd have to research them, would you care to look at http://sprunge.us/YZSS and say what's wrong? 05:27:55 What are you using slaved markers for? 05:28:27 Well, the first thing I can see being problematic is that you aren't triggering a dungeon event 05:31:36 I see that "slave_name" is a property name, I don't get what that comes from except that in the copy I took it from it works. This points at voodoo programming, and clearly says I shouldn't be doing this :( 05:31:48 hehe 05:32:07 due: can you help kilobyte? 05:32:08 You only need slaving when you'er doing complicated multi-place triggering. 05:33:10 But regardless, you actually need to fire the dgn_event 05:35:29 dat/clua/sprint.lua uses it for dgn.find_marker_positions_by_prop to get the coords of the square that has the marker 05:36:03 and it's doing triggering for a single place as well 05:45:57 So no solution for grates? 05:51:46 the marker not being fired was an asinine mistake, thanks due! 05:51:53 of course, the rest is still wrong 05:56:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:12 that's probably more copy/paste stuff 06:12:30 you can just use marker:pos() to get the position of the marker 06:15:51 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:59 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:21:18 03kilobyte * r9eb58e8d9310 10/crawl-ref/source/ (map_knowledge.cc map_knowledge.h showsymb.cc): Remove special casing for detected items. 06:21:19 03kilobyte * rf51eb1b1779b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Make pressure plates call Lua markers when stepped on. 06:25:03 I'll update the Windows builds so the bugfix for Detect Items is there, before I break other stuff 06:26:41 Should I still come up with a definition for "useful"? 06:28:32 sure; I made detected items actual objects rather than just a flag so we have a place to store them 06:29:53 Galehar had this cool idea of Ash showing artefacts, emergency items and good items as {, all the others as . glyhps. 06:30:14 detection code can then fire up whatever logic you can come up and store that as item.sub_type, item.special, item.plus, item.plus2 or anything of the kind 06:30:37 . is floor 06:30:51 I mean . in the Ash-colour. 06:31:04 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:25 We need to have two glyphs, unless we want to suppress "useless" items completely. 06:31:37 not sure if that's never used 06:31:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:00 , could be an alternative 06:32:07 or perhaps bright/dark green 06:32:09 We can also use , or ' yeah. 06:37:13 for spider traps, I wonder if they should trigger for monsters 06:37:46 realism says yes, but in that case you'll often just have a bunch of spiders chilling near a wandering monster 06:38:59 yes, perhaps native monsters are excempt 06:39:05 (so allies and the player are not) 06:39:10 exempt even 06:48:32 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:40 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:16 -!- OG1777 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:19 beh, even with generate_awake the bastards "haven't noticed you" 07:01:40 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:01:54 for spiders, this may be half-plausible, but for zombies (caskets in Crypt), not really 07:02:01 -!- OG1777 is now known as og17 07:02:11 -!- og17 has quit [Client Quit] 07:02:21 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:40 kilobyte: so generate_awake is broken? 07:04:31 it does generate monsters awake but wandering 07:04:37 ah 07:05:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:05:06 so we should replace generate_awake by generate_wandering and generate_alert? 07:05:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:17 perhaps 07:07:30 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 07:07:32 it's more up to vault folks like you 07:07:34 @??spider 07:07:34 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 42. 07:07:57 what should be the minimal depth for spawning 8 of those around you? 07:08:15 i'd really like a flag that marks a monster as a 'sentry', making it generate awake but it wont move from the tile it generates on until it sees the player 07:08:52 generate_awake patrolling 07:09:24 with the added bonus of returning to its place once it loses track of you 07:09:44 parolling monsters seem to react to sound or something though, i've had patrolling monsters in vaults that still wander all over the place 07:10:14 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:18 one of the problems with the only borgnjor wizlab was that monsters would bleed everywhere 07:10:20 sound -- yeah 07:10:21 old 07:10:32 kilobyte: when killer bee packs are first generated or a bit lower 07:10:42 @??killer bee 07:10:42 killer bee (07k) | Speed: 20 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Damage: 1008(poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 62. 07:11:38 when you see a bee, you usually run like hell to a choke point, and it's still one of bigger threats 07:11:55 Mu_: sounds to me that you want a change in patrolling rather than a new flag 07:12:04 maybe ;p 07:12:27 patrolling monsters should not be distracted by noises 07:12:39 it'd be nice if you could place two guards either side of a door and expect them to be there when the player gets there 07:12:42 they should only react (i.e. move away) if they see the player 07:12:47 Mu_: ^ 07:12:50 ye 07:13:08 dpeg: nerfing projected noise? ;) 07:13:12 If we think this qualifies as a bug, we can file on Mantis :) 07:13:26 casmith789: against patrolling monsters, why not? 07:13:40 it's OP anyway, I see no reason 07:13:57 "An ordinary orb-weaving spider with a white cross on its back. It's not as ridiculously huge as other arachnids in this place, but somehow still as big as a small cat - and you don't have a shoe that big." "It is as big as a spriggan." 07:14:35 except spriggans are size -2, felids and spider form -3 07:14:52 will reduce them to match description 07:14:55 kilobyte: btw, could you live with making felids size -2? 07:15:24 dpeg: as in, Norwegian Forest or lynxes? Would help against the huge EV. 07:15:48 been thinking of cats like lynxes, yes 07:16:05 I think it's easier in certain aspects if our two tiny species are equal-sized 07:17:38 balance concerns: +carrying capacity, -EV. I gave them several significant nerfs recently, but they probably can still take another. 07:20:21 kilobyte: they can't use much anyway, so +CC is of dubious value. 07:20:42 about spider sizes: are wolf spiders supposed to be bigger than real wolves? They're currently troll-sized. 07:21:12 haha 07:21:15 didn't know that 07:22:24 yeah, CC seems to not be a problem with felids usually, probably only in special cases (stones for EE, potions for Tm, decks for nemelex) 07:22:38 speaking of which, FeEE should start with stones (it doesn't) 07:24:16 03kilobyte * r4a53645bb5e3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/traps.des: A custom trap: basket of spiders. 07:24:18 03kilobyte * r609fa02edad5 10/crawl-ref/source/species.cc: Felids: make them Norwegian Forest or lynx-sized. 07:24:19 03kilobyte * r7fab7ae5091c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Reduce the size of vanilla spiders to match description. 07:24:35 !lg * killer=spider 07:24:35 No games for * (killer=spider). 07:24:38 meh 07:25:33 D:9 is probably way, way, way too shallow so we may see more of these 07:27:47 the spider trap makes you get attacked by 8 spiders when you stumble on a web? 07:28:00 felids are the size of norwegian forests? 07:29:59 Galehar: no web yet, but now that you mention it... :p 07:30:08 Galehar: didn't know that either :) 07:30:44 TGWi: were size -3 (giant rat), are size -2 (spriggan) 07:30:59 norway must have very small trees 07:32:16 the race's name is the worst case of false advertising I've ever seen 07:33:05 my sis has one, and imagining that lazy bag of fur surviving on its own in a snow-covered forest is just mind-boggling 07:34:34 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:44 kilobyte: cats are generally lazy 07:35:02 kilobyte: if there's a web, there's should be a single spider attacking you (for flavour or realism, as you like) 07:35:12 so could be another trap 07:35:48 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38:45 03kilobyte * r1f6cff752d71 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Felids: rocks are not useless if you know Sandblast. 07:38:48 03kilobyte * rf59ce47d2f84 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Don't cull useless items until after spells are given (matters for FeEE). 07:39:27 Galehar: yeah, proper web traps are planned for Spider. And not just as a Lua gimmick. 07:39:59 Galehar: also, spiders will be able to create webs on their own 07:41:31 can we have lua gimmicks too? 07:43:16 TGWi: pressure plates are there, go code your own trap! 07:44:05 and for those caskets in Crypt I'll probably make them trigger on you just walking rather than an actual trap 07:44:16 kilobyte: oh nice, didn't even see that 07:44:18 thanks bro 08:01:32 03kilobyte * r73408da78c49 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Let fur help against acid, but only for naked slots. 08:03:31 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 08:06:33 Hm, dpex is like dpeg merged with paxed. 08:06:35 Terrifying! 08:08:03 really terrifying. dpex could be thinking he's a programmer like paxed but with the skills of dpeg! 08:15:36 ... that's kinda awesome. 08:28:16 surprise dpeg! 08:29:36 * dpeg drops dead. 08:33:22 I meant that dpeg is a surprise :( 08:33:41 * elly flutters around randomly 08:33:54 Ellfly? 08:34:08 *Ellefly. 08:35:19 :O 08:40:43 dpeg: as the vaultmaster, could you tell me how @ works? I want the grate trap vault to be connected to the outside world -- currently, the builder assumes the upstairs there satisfy that requirement. 08:41:17 kilobyte: Stick @ where you want the builder to try and join to other floor. 08:41:23 @..@ will try and join flloor at both @ points. 08:41:35 what due said 08:41:44 but I always thought that only one @ is used... 08:42:56 You can have multiple @s. 08:46:28 ook... the first level that naturally generated the trap was 100% open (with pools of water) 08:46:58 a corridor with upstairs looks just obvious, especially if you came via another stairs 08:48:58 due: yes, I know. But the builder will only guarantee to connect one to floor, I thought. 08:49:37 hm. 08:49:48 kilobyte: as I said, you find plenty of stairs in corridors, although not at ends of corridors 08:49:49 Only one is required. It will try for as many as it can, though. 08:49:59 ok 08:50:01 good to know 08:50:07 layout_foo, found it 08:50:16 I could bbe wrong :S 08:50:22 perhaps the documentation is not correct. 08:50:29 Or I am incorrect. 08:50:45 dpeg: so how would you propose to make the vault not so obvious? 08:53:37 xxxxxxxx 08:53:52 ...>..^.@ 08:53:56 xxxxxxxx 08:54:08 just another staircase in a corridor 08:54:24 only to be used on rooms&corridor layouts, I think vaults can ask for this 08:54:48 layout_foo doesn't seem to match when there's a big vault on the level 08:55:03 ? 08:55:23 if it says: Generating level: fountainhead (or lemuel_castle, or...), the trap is not generated even though it has WEIGHT:999999 08:55:32 I remember trying to add terrain to angband 08:55:36 it was a /nightmare/ 08:56:13 kilobyte: You might now have it tagged properly. Is it tagged as float or orient: float? 08:56:37 due: no 08:56:46 Try adding one of those. 08:58:40 "float" forces rooms & corridors, iirc 09:01:42 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:05 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:13 03kilobyte * r70b4905e37cc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/traps.des: A custom trap: falling grate. 09:04:01 got to go; this version basically works but needs improvement 09:04:14 cool, kilobyte 09:04:18 like using that staircase in a corridor way dpeg proposed 09:04:21 that looks nice 09:04:33 we'd need two grates there IMHO 09:04:36 goooodnight 09:04:38 but that's not a problem 09:04:52 due: bye! 09:04:53 kilobyte: will you get back on me for Ash re-skilling and better detection? 09:04:57 due: nights! 09:06:30 dpeg: I have an idea for portal detection -- it will need separate code for Abyss and normal levels. For the former, it can work like item/monster detection. For the latter, I'll just mark all portals on the map when you enter the level. 09:07:14 for item detection, we need some logic to put items into classes, but the code is obvious 09:07:16 kilobyte: okay! 09:07:25 kilobyte: yes, I will come up with something and write to you. 09:07:42 kilobyte: is there anything to discuss on re-skilling as an ability? 09:07:48 for monster detection, we can think 09:08:11 We even had piety cost (10 iirc) and xp loss (10% iirc) discussed last time with Galehar. 09:08:24 "who should write the @#$%^&* user interface parts" :p 09:08:43 kilobyte: is it so bad? I thought you can reuse the m screen completely... 09:08:50 I suggested a delayed effect, with XP slowly flowing from one skill to the other 09:08:51 ...but I guess our menus are just too bad :( 09:09:04 Galehar: that's for later :) 09:09:13 ok 09:10:00 in a good part, yes, but I don't know these parts of the code, and in general I hate coding UI. If my complaining won't get someone else to give it a try, though, I guess I'll cave in. 09:10:05 but for now I still have hope :p 09:11:10 bye, though 09:11:11 !seen felirx 09:11:12 I'm into UI hacking actually, so I'll give it a look, but as I'm still discovering, I'm not making any promise. 09:11:12 I last saw felirx at Thu Oct 14 08:55:18 2010 UTC (6d 5h 15m 54s ago) joining the channel. 09:11:14 bye kilobyte 09:11:26 felirx: We neeeeeed you :) 09:11:29 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:32 Galehar: it's an annoying legacy that so many lists, menus and whatnots use different code and presentation. Compare the Ctrl-P, m, ??, i screens, for example. 09:12:58 All of them scroll, but keys work differently, help is given in different ways. 09:13:13 dpeg: OK, so I'll code something completely different to keep the trend ;) 09:13:15 felirx was doing something there... 09:13:20 Galehar: +1 <3 09:14:02 mm+ 09:14:08 managed to sleep 17 hours 09:14:48 I was thinking the menu code (used by inventory, stashes and spells I think) could be used for ash reskilling 09:14:56 felirx: good thing I woke you up! 09:15:29 felirx: overworked or ill? 09:15:39 I was fixing my sleeping rythm 09:15:43 it was about 8 hours off 09:16:12 might take a while 09:16:19 two weeks, in my experience 09:18:22 felirx: there might be future work on menus and whatnot... is tehre code you want to share before anything else looks into this? 09:19:01 nothing done yet 09:19:07 dpeg: about item detection, there's some easy stuff I can do like improving emergency and good item classes 09:19:27 add fogs to emergency, make fear XL dependent 09:20:40 Galehar: taht'd be awesome 09:21:10 I will come up with a system that makes wands like magic dart "good" for DLs<9 or so etc. 09:21:22 Galehar: btw, I think it might be better to use DL rather than XL... 09:21:23 also, I was thinking of making might/agility/brilliance dependent on skills. The obvious one is brilliance which is of no use to someone without spellcasting. The others are a bit trickier. 09:21:29 This way detection is more constant. 09:22:03 dpeg: on the other, items in your inventory change color when you travel back to your stash... 09:22:06 03dolorous * r7660c0c433a0 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Fix compilation. 09:22:20 I find brilliance quite underwhelming in general 09:22:28 felirx: also for casters? 09:22:34 only ever used one to get necromutation going faster 09:22:55 we can scrap Brilliance if we want 09:22:59 !agility seems to be okay 09:23:12 Galehar: when do they change colour? 09:23:15 the idea in general is not bad, I just don't find carrying one around worth the space 09:23:56 if we use the same functions for ash detection and item colouring (yellow=emergency, cyan=useful), like I suggested 09:24:18 !agility and !might are both good survival / emergency potions that help defeat tough bosses 09:24:42 for brilliance, you actually have to have something hard to cast memorized, otherwise the effect is just a bit higher spell damage 09:24:56 if we make it DL dependent, then the items will change color when you travel back to you stash on L:1 09:27:01 felirx: my point is not all potions are useful to all builds. If you're pure melee, you won't care about brilliance. If you're pure AC, you won't care about agility. If you're pure caster, you won't care about might. 09:27:19 is_good_item() should take that into account 09:28:30 have to go 09:28:34 -!- Galehar has quit [Quit: bye] 10:07:26 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:31 03raphael.langella * r3a94664038d0 10/crawl-ref/source/windowmanager-sdl.cc: slightly reduce the taskbar offset 11:01:28 03dolorous * rd72491dfaba2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make monster felids the same size as player felids. 11:03:55 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:32 03dolorous * r803142a87ae2 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Constify. 11:05:33 03dolorous * r21716f7d6690 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Add spacing fix. 11:06:57 03galehar * r6d1604cafd4c 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: add scrolls of fog to emergency items 11:07:38 fixed CIA :) 11:08:55 galehar: Hi! And yay :) 11:09:28 galehar: regarding "useful", it seems to me that carrying and detection are different things, perhaps? 11:09:56 I agree that carrying an item to D:5 and it thereby changing status is silly. 11:14:07 well, we already have 4 classes of items: useless, normal, good items and emergency items. I thought it would be good to make use of that for detection instead of creating a new system 11:14:16 but I can't really talk right now 11:14:21 I'm just passing by 11:14:28 see you later 11:14:30 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 11:18:04 blammo 11:18:53 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:28:16 dpeg: one thing that could be done is making brilliance give, say, a boost to spell duration + damage, beyond the int boost, similar to might being more than just a str boost 11:28:24 (and i believe agility is +dex, but also +EV) 11:28:31 brilliance is fine 11:29:03 casmith789: i don't think it's bad enough to warrant removal but i think it's too rarely useful right now 11:30:03 the main problems are it's mostly useful early where you're unlikely to have got the potion, and if you want to cast off-school spells lategame you add a small bit of victory dancing and suddenly you're at level 5 for no effort 11:30:25 Eronarn: brilliance is already more than an Int boost 11:30:39 yeah, brilliance is an insane wizardry boost 11:30:50 casmith789: the usefulness of might should likewise decay? 11:31:12 it might be better for !brilliance to just add something to spell power after all other effects 11:31:25 yes, might is much better early than late, but it's still useful late 11:31:34 which is why people like okawaru 11:32:20 casmith789: well, Oka gives it out for free 11:32:32 yep 11:32:44 with might not counting okawaru, I like using the potions tactically 11:32:57 yes, as it should be :) 11:33:00 brilliance would be the same except you generally haven't memorised off-school spells 11:33:08 which you'd need to to get a good use out of it 11:33:09 good point 11:33:24 although it might get more use over time 11:33:40 dpeg: what is it besides int boost? does it do a success boost too? 11:33:42 I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with brilliance 11:33:46 Eronarn: yes 11:34:46 yeah, i'd personally much rather see a boost to spell damage or something - success boosts only matter if you can't already cast the spell, and it feels weird that one of the primary uses of brilliance is that 11:34:50 it boosts spellpower a bit too i think 11:34:54 though maybe not much 11:34:57 ??brilliance 11:34:57 brilliance[1/2]: Temporarily increases intelligence, spell power, and provides a wizardry bonus. 11:34:58 MarvinPA: well, from an int boost, yes it would 11:35:10 independently of the int boost, that is 11:35:14 ah 11:35:31 if you _really_ want to cast the spell reliably, a success boost is still relevant 11:35:42 definitely 11:35:54 I guess casters have just learn when to use !brilliance. 11:36:21 the success boost is pretty significant too, i don't use it often but it's very useful when i do remember to 11:36:42 If people think the potion is not that good, they should just use it earlier :) 11:36:48 I cleared zot:5 using brilliance + firestorm, it was awesome 11:36:51 :) 11:36:57 (firestorm was at poor without it) 11:37:16 !tell galehar Potion of brilliance is fine, no change required. 11:37:17 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 11:41:25 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:27 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:35 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:57 The xp pool page is so messy. 12:04:36 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09:23 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:28 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:49 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:19:51 grr, does the game have to generate three helmets on D:1 for every mino i play 12:23:29 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:27:10 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:20 -!- enne_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:53 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:24 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:23 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:14 rar. 13:46:00 unrar x 13:47:35 :) 13:48:28 Activity! 13:48:30 * dpeg hides 13:49:04 Agate snails interface has bugs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2740) by casmith789 13:49:45 * ortoslon enchants to dpeg armours 13:50:03 dpeg, you always go afk to activity :) 13:50:16 dpeg, or you turn into snailpeg and hide in shell 13:53:53 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:50 Cryp71c: what's up? :) 13:57:41 I had to hide in the shell so that due could see my loyalty! 13:59:57 :D 14:00:51 But I really have to go now =) 14:03:41 see you later folks 14:04:28 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:13:03 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:07 Evenings! 14:14:58 hi keskitalo 14:16:42 Hi TGWi, designed any lua traps yet? :) I saw Kilobyte implemented the blank traps <3 14:17:14 I just got home, but I might try to find a new copy of trunk 14:19:28 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:06 03kilobyte * rf14fdda75dcf 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Don't give out books with Selective Amnesia anymore. 14:29:15 the windows console build is two days old :\ 14:32:14 TGWi: uhm, it should build every night now, and I triggered a build manually today 14:32:57 the tiles build is new, regular is from the 18th 14:33:18 Oh, automated builds? Nice. I just started the console build script. 14:37:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:18 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:01 TGWi: The console build is up now. 14:44:12 Keskitalo: thanks 14:44:23 Color annotations in Overview (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2741) by argonaut 14:58:52 <3 how it now says which items were destroyed 15:01:54 indeed 15:16:47 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:19:10 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:51 03kilobyte * r836bf19217c8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Don't mark withdrawn monsters as wont_attack. 15:28:58 03kilobyte * rdc1bf02bdc19 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc godprayer.h): Remove a remnant of altar item sacrifices. 15:28:59 03kilobyte * reaf221fd9727 10/crawl-ref/source/ (delay.cc items.cc items.h): Don't destroy items you drop just because you prayed before on an altar. 15:33:07 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:43:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:57 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:16 elliptic: thanks for the feedback! 15:50:40 np, I like felids :) 15:55:26 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:43 is there any opinion on dragon form having different schools for different draconian types? 16:00:59 i think it'd be cool, but just dropping fire would work, too 16:01:48 pure transmutations instead of the spell failure reduction? 16:04:04 yeah 16:07:43 I think the first option is more flavorful but pure transmutation would avoid having to deal with yellow and grey draconians at least 16:17:59 PapaBlues (L3 MuWr) ASSERT(item.defined()) in 'quiver.cc' at line 156 failed. (D:3) 16:23:48 yellow can be poison 16:23:59 then when we revise poison to be alchemy school it will make even more sense 16:24:44 green is poison 16:25:03 wouldn't transmut be morel ike alchemy 16:25:09 03kilobyte * reba32cab5188 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Stop withdrawn snapping turtles from spamming in debug mode. 16:25:10 03kilobyte * rb458452f0a57 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Felids: fix "hands" in miscasts, spell/card failures, Conf Touch, acid. 16:25:14 03kilobyte * re008d311f3a7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc status.cc traps.cc): Fix some "hands" for transforms/felids. 16:25:20 03kilobyte * r2d12a536ac45 10/crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc command.cc status.cc transform.cc transform.h): Felids: give up to the mob and fix messaging for Blade Paws instead of disallowing them. 16:25:20 turn stuff into other stuff 16:25:27 red, mottled and pale would all be fire/transmutation so sharing poison wouldn't be a problem if it fits 16:25:50 I think it's nicer if it's just pure tmut for all of them 16:28:27 well, to me it feels like a tmut + fire 11 red drac should hvae an easier time casting than a tmut 11 red drac 16:29:25 eh 16:30:05 you're already a red draconian; the spell makes you into a dragon, not a fire dude 16:32:37 what if we kept the current breath and just made it stronger? 16:40:05 a white draconian casting dragon form would get a stronger breathe cold instead of fire and the glyph of an ice dragon 16:40:30 and rC+ rF- 16:40:48 but this doesn't work well if dragon form is fire/transmutations 16:40:58 obviously 16:41:30 changing the spell to a single school would make it far easier to cast, but then, no one uses it 16:42:00 maybe, how does single school compare to dual school with the failure reduction? 16:42:39 it doesn't change it... you just don't need as much xp to train the skills 16:43:13 uh, that sounds like changing it 16:45:19 how about: it becomes pure tmut for draconians (easier to get skills up), but the success boost is based on relevant elemental magic skill, kind of like how summon elemental friendliness is boosted 16:45:30 Eronarn: how about it's just tmut 16:45:43 there's no reason it needs to use element skill 16:45:58 TGWi: it already uses element skill, and it feels a bit weird to just drop it entirely 16:46:26 it uses fire skill, which is obviously broken if it's going to make white dracs into ice dragons, etc 16:46:38 it needs a skill for the ac bonus as well 16:46:56 or that could be dropped for draconians and use their intrinsic ac instead 16:46:58 what do you suggest grey drac uses 16:47:02 fighting 16:47:11 grey drac is bad at fighting 16:47:22 he uses necro 16:47:26 and changes into a bone dragon 16:48:36 ??dragon form 16:48:36 dragon form[1/3]: You're a dragon now! RAAAAWR! Breathe fire! Be tough (+60% hp) and strong! Draconians get a bonus to their ability to cast this, similar to wizardry. 16:48:41 ??dragon form[2] 16:48:41 dragon form[2/3]: Base unarmed damage = (20 + str + unarmed_skill), +10 str, flight, rPois+ rFire++ rCold-, regen+, ability to breathe fire, up to +12 AC (is a function of fire magic), huge size (will nuke your EV) 16:48:49 what's drac AC max out at 16:48:55 12 16:49:01 well, there you go then 16:50:32 wow, nice idea with the dragon form 16:51:22 also, if it doesn't already 16:51:36 it should dramatically decrease breath timeout 16:51:54 and it should do your taxes 16:52:01 ??dragon form[3] 16:52:01 dragon form[3/3]: It's worth noting that Dragon Form does not become castable until _after_ the midgame inflection point when AC and EV become more important than damage output. As such, it is of very low utility. Hopefully the mythical AC/EV nerf will help. 16:52:07 now that would be nice 16:52:32 17:47 < casmith789> and changes into a bone dragon 16:52:37 secret dracolich form if you cast necromutation in dragon form 16:53:56 Crypt needs a dracolich boss 16:54:21 grey will probably end up with the iron dragon glyph since it is the closest to grey 17:00:56 good point 17:03:52 N78291: make grey have splinter breath 17:04:02 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:37 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 18:07:55 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:09:17 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:20 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:26 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:19 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:39 Dragon form changes (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2742) by 78291 18:30:50 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:37 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:34:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:20 03kilobyte * rc123be51814c 10/crawl-ref/source/files.h: Fix an incorrect comment. 18:36:22 03kilobyte * rad3bbb2730a3 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Fix Empathy not working in portal vaults and Pan. 18:36:22 03kilobyte * r78a9adc72d12 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Ashenzari: instant detection of portals. Including the Abyss! 18:46:26 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:54 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 18:52:23 03kilobyte * r1225bbe306b8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint_mu.des: A whitespace fix. 18:52:25 03N78291 * rbc3109de6f23 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Dragon form changes for draconians 18:59:13 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:07 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:12:10 -!- m1nced has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:49 Hi. I'm almost done implementing Nomes (new race that can move through walls). Would it be feasible to add them to trunk if I submitted the patch soon? 19:18:21 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:26:19 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:26 03kilobyte * r954b9448372c 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: An indentation fix. 19:30:30 03kilobyte * rd700b8292b54 10/crawl-ref/source/map_knowledge.cc: A typo. 19:30:32 03kilobyte * rbd94b3dba3ee 10/crawl-ref/source/branch.cc: Stop debug spam in labs. 19:30:34 03kilobyte * r4b622e3a5d21 10/crawl-ref/source/branch.cc: Get rid of redundant and misindented breaks. 19:30:37 03kilobyte * r7b6b40939dfa 10/crawl-ref/source/map_knowledge.cc: Ashenzari: passive mapping in Labs. 19:30:38 03kilobyte * rd9ae5d8d4546 10/crawl-ref/source/godpassive.cc: Revert "Ashenzari: count cursed/worn, not cursed/wearable." 19:39:14 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:02 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:55 I'm not sure two new races would be feasible for 0.8... 20:02:34 guess you'll have to remove felids to make room 20:07:47 remove felids to make room for removing nomes 20:10:14 Why? 20:10:16 What's wrong with felids? 20:10:40 they're *cats* also gnomes (nomes?) are cooler 20:11:23 we need gnolls too 20:11:29 gnolls yes 20:11:31 gnomes no 20:11:38 gnolms 20:11:49 GnBe <--- is that gnome or gnoll berserker 20:12:02 gnoll would have to be Go 20:12:07 or Gl 20:12:13 GlGl 20:12:25 HEHe HuHu 20:12:37 FeCK! 20:12:57 octopus 20:13:09 gnollctopus 20:15:05 why don't we have aerial jellyfish monsters yet 20:16:16 because you need missiles to kill metroids 20:21:08 ??iood 20:21:08 iood[1/3]: Iskenderun's Orb of Destruction - level 7 pure conjuration homing missile spell in 0.6+. Moves at speed 30 with inertia - if something casts this at you, sidestep, but watch out behind you! It does less damage at short range; at melee range it only does about half damage (verified with mimics). 20:22:42 okay 20:23:02 be ready with your ice beam and enough mp left over to cast 5 of those 20:23:21 ??wand of cold 20:23:21 wand of cold[1/1]: Shoots a {bolt of cold}, which serves all of the same purposes, such as killing hellions. 20:23:39 !learn edit wand_of_cold s/hellions/metroids/ 20:23:40 wand of cold[1/1]: Shoots a {bolt of cold}, which serves all of the same purposes, such as killing metroids. 20:23:44 :D 20:28:15 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:35 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:15 -!- enne_ is now known as enne 21:09:44 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:37 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:15 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:34 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: exit] 21:37:14 03dolorous * r9bcd169f8b23 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Describe Mephitic Cloud-type beams as "noxious fumes", not "poison". 21:37:26 03dolorous * r65d7900e88a1 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Fix indentation. 21:37:36 03dolorous * r84d725c3e088 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Remove obsolete reference to player green draconians' breathing poison. 21:40:32 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:38 -!- OG17 has quit [Quit: OG17] 22:30:12 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:49 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:36 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:04 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:10 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:31 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:16 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:15 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:04 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]