00:45:19 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:07 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:54 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:58 mornings 00:59:20 hi david 00:59:27 !seen zaba 00:59:27 I last saw Zaba at Wed Oct 6 19:23:41 2010 UTC (10h 35m 46s ago) joining the channel. 01:02:27 OG17 was very forceful again in his statements. 01:03:21 :/ 01:03:39 I'll just settle this issue with Eino. 01:05:18 Which issue? 01:05:26 I kicked OG17 out of the channel last night, I think he came back though. 01:06:03 You did what? 01:06:04 Why? 01:06:06 still not sure what that was about 01:06:26 three guys have objections to proposed new monsters, two get replies and one gets told to fuck off 01:06:34 anyway, spiders 01:06:36 !learn add due Kicker of asses! 01:06:37 due[7/7]: Kicker of asses! 01:07:04 OG17: I told you already, it helps if you don't pretend to have the ultimate truth. We don't, and I just expect you won't either :) 01:07:13 for what it's worth, i didn't have an objection, i had a suggestion 01:07:17 ??due[6] 01:07:17 due[6/7]: Has the memory of an hellephant! 01:07:18 these things are different 01:07:27 doy: which things? 01:07:33 dpeg: sure, but I'm right :p 01:07:35 ??due[5] 01:07:35 due[5/7]: Suggested silencing Cerebov. 01:07:36 dpeg: "objection" and "suggestion" 01:07:40 ??due[4] 01:07:40 due[4/7]: Thinks lichform spriggan should be 'l' instead of 'L'. Tiny lich! 01:08:09 OG17: it is always the tone. A very sensible point can come across as rude if the wording is off. 01:08:11 Do any spriggans ever get lich form with their terrible tmut apt? 01:08:17 gamefreak264: I've done it. 01:08:19 !apt sp tmut 01:08:20 Sp (SK_TRANSMUTATIONS)=3! 01:08:25 also when I'm pushing for something it's almost always in preference to what's been suggested, not every possible future suggestion 01:08:29 oh, I must be thinking of something else 01:08:33 Maybe Kenkus 01:08:39 and I really don't the spider suggestions would work 01:08:41 !apt tmut kenku 01:08:41 Ke (SK_TRANSMUTATIONS)=-2 01:08:46 Yeah, probably kenkus 01:08:46 I don't know why a kenku would cast necromut 01:09:05 !apt sp necromancy 01:09:05 Sp (SK_NECROMANCY)=-1 01:09:15 not great, but their tmut apt probably makes up for it 01:09:21 -1 isn't bad at all 01:09:30 no, but it's not great 01:09:51 Lichggan is awesome. 01:10:04 due: I'll bet :P 01:10:17 go, due, go! ;> 01:10:19 moin! 01:10:33 Napkin: You're german? 01:10:45 mostly, yeah ;) 01:10:49 OG17: where's the problem? It comes up very rarely, and sure it would work. 01:10:57 with spiders? 01:10:58 I'm not and people fuss at me when I use that word D: 01:11:06 I didn't know you were german 01:11:08 OG17: yes 01:11:19 On a totally unrelated note, potion of brilliance and scroll of amnesia are both autopickup for berserkers and I don't think they should be 01:11:22 the proposed rules are just confusing 01:11:29 gamefreak264: these Germans are everywhere. Be careful. 01:11:43 just stick to it, gamefreak264 ;) 01:11:44 * dpeg suspects Napkin is burning some book right now. *Again* 01:12:00 * Napkin whistles innocently * 01:12:00 well, I think I have some German ancestry but my family's been in america for many generations 01:12:04 ogaz: good point, please file 01:12:26 Anyway, I get a bunch of people fussing at me when I say moin 01:12:27 Yesterday we had insane proposals where history would have to be tracked, or where we'd have to mark certain walls visually, or where spiders would sit inside the walls. 01:12:36 * dpeg fusses at gamefreak264. 01:12:36 but for some reason no one cares when I great them in other languages 01:12:39 like spanish 01:12:40 ogaz: Can't you change god later on? 01:12:41 is that actually a bug, or would I put in a wiki entry? 01:12:41 hola 01:12:55 * Napkin fusses at gamefreak264 * 01:13:06 *greet 01:13:11 gamefreak264: it is not a German greeting. Only in parts of Germany. 01:13:22 see - i think the problem is you are missing the exclamation mark ;) 01:13:23 dpeg: Eh, it's german enough 01:13:24 ogaz: not sure, but it sounds like anoversight. 01:13:27 Zao: yes, and at that point you can ctrl-f for those items, but every time I picked up a potion of brilliance I was dropping it immediately and it was minorly annoying 01:13:36 gamefreak264: I don't feel greeted by moin. 01:13:43 ogaz: Point. 01:14:05 to make it a greating you need to say "Moin zusammen!" 01:14:05 dpeg: How shall I greet you, sir? 01:14:14 gamefreak264: I also wouldn't feel greeted by Grüß Gott, for example. 01:14:15 *greeeeeting 01:14:20 gamefreak264: Guten Tag, mein Herr! 01:14:35 don't listen to him 01:14:47 it's all about the exclamation mark :-P 01:14:50 haha 01:15:07 I don't like guten tag 01:15:11 I have to see this greeting business is funny, but mildly OT. 01:15:13 *say 01:15:19 it's common enough that americans know what it means 01:15:29 I kinda like obscure greetings 01:15:31 Is that weird? 01:15:37 gamefreak264: ^ 01:15:42 you are weird and welcome ;) 01:16:10 OG17: your last example is missing a point: no matter what metric, we're free to rule that it makes a difference whether the spider is adjacent to one, two, three walls. 01:17:17 Another simple rule would be: "Can move from a square with at least three adjacent squares to a square with at least three adjacent squares." 01:17:25 As I said, there are many potential solutions. 01:17:39 Are we talking about autoexplore? 01:18:07 no! 01:18:14 Oh! 01:18:15 We are talking about how spiders should cling to walls. 01:18:27 this is all so complicated, though. A player that's just trying to walk around isn't going to want to count squares, and he's going to make a bunch of failed steps 01:18:30 Umm... Are they going to behave like rockworms now? 01:18:33 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:branch:spider#wall-clinging 01:18:41 OG17: so what? 01:18:47 so that's frustrating 01:19:05 they'll learn soon enough 01:19:12 also, it is not as if this was extremely common 01:19:15 it's much smoother to just let spiders actually walk along walls 01:19:28 spider form isn't uncommon, and people would use it more if it had a gimmick like this 01:19:44 I don't want spiders to jump over water 01:19:57 at all? 01:19:58 walls and trees? 01:20:04 your original examples have that 01:20:07 Napkin: not settled yes 01:20:12 OG17: yes, but I was restrictive. 01:20:15 Eino's, I mean 01:20:39 damn work... bye o/ 01:20:44 Napkin: definitely walls: wouldn't it be cool to have spiders come at your along walls? :) 01:20:48 bye! 01:21:01 for what it's worth, walls aren't really pretty and square anyway; case: those funky checkerboarded wall vaults 01:21:17 like I said, I'd be fine with having no jumping, at least for players 01:21:25 it'd be fun for one of the monsters 01:21:26 i am all in for more varied behavior of monsters 01:21:29 monky: I realised, which is why I designed a rule that allows free movement in such a checkerboard pattern. 01:21:31 if they could figure it out 01:21:44 OG17: there is a jumping spider already. 01:22:03 it just sort of blinks, doesn't it? 01:22:06 And this is one reason why I don't want spiders jumping over water in general. 01:22:09 OG17: but wouldn't enforcing lack of any sort of jumping require tracking walls 01:22:09 yes 01:22:29 monky: read the wiki page I linked, it even has pictures. 01:22:33 monky, what? It'd require not having a jumping mechanism 01:22:35 (is that a goal or am I missing something) 01:22:39 ^ 01:23:06 -!- enne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:10 (maybe we're not talking about the same thing I'm confused) 01:23:26 yes, banning all jumping would require a tracking mechanism 01:24:25 tracking what? Or do you just mean checking if a wall's adjacent? 01:24:27 (I consider jumping from wall to wall in a 1-tile-wide corridor to be jumping, since spiders aren't a whole tile wide) 01:24:32 for whatever value of adjacent you're using 01:24:40 of course spiders are a tile wide, that's absurd 01:24:50 everything in this game is a tile wide 01:24:54 spiders are as big as dragons and they're also smaller 01:24:55 OG17: it is not "absurd". It is a valid opinion. 01:25:08 it's rather silly in context 01:25:15 It is not silly in context. 01:25:17 as it's an accepted absurdity of the genre 01:25:23 dpeg: "absurd" there was obviously a silly joke, unless I'm horribly mistaken 01:25:32 nope, face value 01:25:36 only that OG17 is fully of silly jokes like that 01:25:43 learn your manners, dude 01:25:46 you don't have rats lining up six-wide in a square just because they're little 01:25:48 sorry 01:26:04 It is okay to object. It is not okay to say "absurd" all the time. 01:26:28 you're aware that saying a comment is absurd isn't saying that the speaker is absurd, yes? 01:26:33 yes 01:26:58 one idea that came up yesterday is tracking which wall the spider clings to 01:27:06 this is possible, but slightly cumbersome 01:28:03 I, personally, am fine with a bit of jumping, especially if jumping spiders get something more, like proposed Deinopidae 01:28:29 as a side note, a spider wouldn't be "jumping from wall to wall" anyway, but would instead be touching all simultaneously 01:28:34 monky: sure, so am I. What I want to avoid is something like this: 01:28:37 you can't define fractional squares like that 01:28:43 ~~~# 01:28:44 ~~~~ 01:28:48 ~s~~ 01:28:50 #~~~ 01:29:28 is #s~# still bad, then? 01:29:38 OG17: i think so, yes 01:29:44 less so, but I'd like to avoid that still 01:30:05 avoiding both is fine, but there's really no difference between them 01:30:18 the fewer restrictions on movement there are, the more it just feels like another form of levitation 01:30:21 which is boring 01:30:35 another form of levitation that forces you to cling to walls 01:30:35 I was meaning to ask how levitation would work with leaping, actually 01:30:41 interface-wise 01:30:51 Sure there is: metrical information is not everything. Nobody forbids us to use local information (e.g. what you're next to). 01:31:56 and there is definitely a difference between the above example and 01:31:58 ### 01:31:59 ~~ 01:32:03 ~s~ 01:32:05 ### 01:32:09 one ~ missing 01:32:30 are you jumping vertically? 01:33:16 vertically is different from the diagonal jump of the first example because the numbers of adjacent walls before/after move are (1/1) vs (3/3), respectively. 01:34:36 so you'd be okay with jumping diagonally like 01:34:37 ~### 01:34:37 #~~~ 01:34:37 #s~~ 01:34:37 ###~ 01:34:45 I am not saying that. 01:34:47 or similar? 01:35:14 I am just pointing out that there's more to this than ... some of us would claim. 01:35:47 you can certainly add rules and rules to this, but I don't see how it improves things more than something simple 01:37:24 The rules are not complicated. The discussion of rules may be. 01:37:28 it's also hard to picture why a spider would need an x-square launching/landing pad, for this specific example 01:38:05 restricting player movement by the number of adjacent squares isn't going to result in fluid play 01:38:37 OG17: completely fluid play is not what we're going for 01:38:43 as has been pointed out several times 01:38:48 A rather restricted rule is this: allow a move if some square the spider clings to before move is adjacent or identical to a square the spider clings to after move (this is point 3 in my wiki proposal, with point 4 missing) 01:39:03 The above would mean no jumping, but still meaningful wall-clinging. 01:40:02 I guess that the wording could be simplified, too. 01:41:15 I think that's what I've been going for, except that diagonals count as adjacent like they do everywhere else 01:41:43 doy, I'd think that movement should be fluid, otherwise it feels like an interface problem 01:41:54 except how that's not true at all 01:42:45 how is that untrue? If a player expects to go somewhere and gets a bunch of error messages instead, something isn't right 01:42:58 walking shouldn't be a minigame 01:43:10 the current swamp is far more like that than this would ever be 01:43:16 yes 01:43:30 In German we have a saying: "To turn a midget into an elephant." 01:43:41 that's not really comparable, swamp makes it very clear where you can and can't go 01:43:48 and uses the same rules as the rest of the game 01:44:04 we have mountains and molehills 01:44:07 This is just not such a big deal. And the main question is how strongly wall-clinging for players in spider-form should remove the need for levitation. And here most of us say not so much. 01:44:07 I like the germans better 01:45:02 "sieving mosquitoes and swallowing elephants" 01:45:09 why is that a concern? Spider's a level three dual-school spell, isn't it? 01:45:11 Corresponding swedish proverb. 01:45:12 tbf being cool with pure spiderform would make it unique from swamp and shoals in that respect 01:45:21 and needing to be on a wall is a pretty big restriction in itself 01:45:22 It is supposed to provide some fun with certain vaults, flavour, and some occasional options for spider form users. No big deal. 01:45:44 !wtf tbf 01:45:46 WTF was that? Unthing! 01:45:48 "to be fair" 01:46:26 monky: it wouldn't matter much in Shoals, but it would indeed matter a bit in Swamp, which is fine with me. 01:46:33 requiring both levitation for spiderform users makes spiderform a bit less interesting, in my opinion 01:46:52 both? 01:46:59 oops 01:47:02 leftover word 01:47:04 We're giving something to spider form, not taking?! 01:47:16 yeah, spider form is already not bad 01:47:18 (I deleted half of my text but accidentally left that word in) 01:47:30 I mean 01:47:46 the interesting bit of what you're adding would be lessened if levitation is still required 01:47:56 Would you be able to perform actions while clinging to a wall? 01:48:03 Or would it be restricted to movement alone? 01:48:04 no wall-clinging will allow you to cross a moat three ~~~ deep, I guess we all agree on that. But even with the restricted forms of wall-clinging, there will be cases where spiders cross when others (barring Lev) won't. The river vault, for example. 01:48:06 Wait, we're still talking about this? 01:48:16 gamefreak264: sure we are. 01:48:22 Zao: yes of course 01:48:32 (perform actions) 01:49:32 if the river vault is like the river bailey, it should use open sea on the borders of the river 01:49:41 and spiders can't walk on sea, obviously 01:50:35 okay, enough of that 01:51:20 and wallwalking can't ever get to an island, naturally 01:51:21 oh 01:57:23 wow, it's _really_ time for a repository repack. 01:57:48 the on-server repo size is 157MB. should be ~30-40 01:58:22 Are we still using sourceforge? 01:58:27 yes :( 01:58:40 What are the other options? Git? 01:58:42 neunon_: what's the usual duration between repacks? 01:58:53 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:01 dpeg: not long, takes me less than 20 minutes 01:59:17 dpeg: but I'm doing it awkwardly: rsync from server, repack locally, upload to server 01:59:32 I'd normally repack on the server itself, but that's not an option, heh 02:00:36 after the licensing thing is handled, I think we should get off sourceforge finally 02:01:45 heh, repacking reduces it from 157MB to 37MB 02:02:11 neunon_: oh, I meant between on repack and the next :) 02:02:19 oh, sorry, uh 02:02:27 * dpeg supports getting off SF. 02:02:29 I repack whenever I think about it. I think last time was July 02:02:36 ah, I see 02:02:54 on my source control server, I have it do repacks monthly, and permission repairs nightly 02:03:30 repack finished. total size (including contribs) is now 55MB 02:03:36 we'll need to find a new home for c-r-d 02:03:44 once we leave sourceforge 02:03:59 doy: Google Groups, maybe? 02:04:32 I have some ideas for hosting outside sourceforge, as far as the bare source control goes 02:04:34 Could someone tell me what's wrong with sourceforge? 02:04:50 gamefreak264: their site is rickety and smells of elderberries. 02:04:55 it seems nice from an end user perspective 02:05:01 also slow and restrictive 02:05:02 it does? 02:05:03 really? 02:05:11 well, it works 02:05:12 i think it's terrible from an end user perspective 02:05:14 note also that our mailing list keeps dropping emails on occasion 02:05:17 thats mostly what I look for 02:05:22 some users don't get emails 02:05:38 I dunno, I guess I have a softspot for sourceforge 02:06:09 it works, sometimes 02:06:14 quite often it just breaks 02:06:15 sometimes indeed. 02:06:18 for no apparent reason 02:06:28 and in weird ways, too 02:06:32 Okay, feel free to change your host, I won't be complaining 02:06:36 (: 02:06:41 I was just curious about why you wanted to change it 02:06:41 I had one case where it blew up and said it was trying to run deprecated code which they were going to remove eventually 02:06:55 had to file a support request, heh 02:27:24 -!- monky has quit [Quit: what] 02:37:19 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:56 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:47 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:12:21 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:25 Hi 03:14:00 hi 03:14:34 how goes it? 03:14:37 * due working on malign gateway. 03:15:09 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:15 fine 03:19:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:55 dpeg, you still awake? 03:23:04 or I guess, it's morning there isn't it? :P 03:26:24 he was around an hour ago 03:30:10 yes 03:33:04 What's up? 03:36:54 oh hi, dpeg! 03:37:12 I have an idea for hosting for our git stuff. 03:37:24 hm 03:37:30 does anyone know if it's safe to store monsters in a marker? 03:37:33 i'm guessing it should be 03:43:00 neunon: where? 03:43:08 dpeg, ever heard of Amazon Web Services? http://aws.amazon.com 03:43:08 I think Napkin also offered this at one point. 03:43:18 neunon: no, never heard of that 03:43:41 neunon: once the license thing is done, we should address that 03:43:45 they're pretty awesome. highly reliable, and very very cheap (I even offer to pay for it myself) 03:43:58 thank you 03:47:15 what's wrong with google code? 03:47:53 due: no git hosting 03:48:14 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:49:32 oh 03:49:35 stupid gits 03:49:44 due: they offer only mercurial/subversion. and also, even if they did, we wouldn't be able to repack, probably. same as sourceforge. 03:50:49 feh 03:51:08 unlike mercurial or subversion, git is fully distributed and the whole notion of hosting is pretty unimportant 03:51:51 it's about having a mirror or mirrors people can download from, and one master repository whose only function is to declare something as the official version 03:52:21 you probably have 10+ mirrors on your own disk 03:52:47 fair to say. 03:53:53 well, yeah, but the latter seems to be problematic. 03:54:56 kilobyte: actually, maybe it's not fair to say. mercurial is fully distributed too. 03:55:17 (I for one have 8 on dis, 1 on tartarus, 3 on durthang, 1 (publicly available) on carchost, 1 on umbar and 1 on numenor) 03:55:41 I have one on each of my 5 machines 03:55:59 (rather, at _least_ one. I also have a copy on each OS, which bumps the count by at least 4) 03:56:27 oh right, I forgot copies inside virtual machines, which are umpteen 03:56:32 heh 03:57:52 Napkin has several on CDO with scripts that pull from one another. Like, the monster db pulls from a local one rather than SF. 03:58:11 On two machines I have Mac OS X, Linux, and Windows, two Linux-exclusive boxes, one Windows-exclusive box, and actually come to think of it, I also have a FreeBSD box over in Minnesota. 03:58:31 but even in our current SF setup, the read-only repository for people is separate from the one we push to 03:59:06 eh? 03:59:24 the URL is different (git:// vs ssh://), but they point to the same on-disk copy 04:00:07 I heard they do put it on separate machines 04:00:12 may be untrue 04:00:32 Lies lies lies! 04:01:02 also, I'm starting an Amazon EC2 instance and naming the machine 'sigmund', in case people decide to go with Amazon EC2 :3 04:01:43 sigmund <3 04:02:28 all that we need is a repository that can be reasonably controlled by us and allow push notifications 04:02:45 yep, I've got a very very basic Linux setup on this thing. 04:02:53 < 500MB 04:03:19 though I'll probably get Apache on so we can have something similar to the http://git.uplinklabs.net web interface 04:03:21 heck, I still do have one git-svn repository that still listens for SVN pushes on SourceForge :p 04:04:31 as in, SF do offer that over mail, so there's a procmail line that is triggered by SVN commits 04:04:49 yeah, doing something similar on Sigmund should be trivial 04:07:09 functionality we do use: 1. sending commit mails, 2. CIA hooks 04:07:55 I don't think either would be difficult 04:11:03 dpeque the Grim Reaper <3 04:15:08 dpeque <3 04:17:37 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:49 -!- neunon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:37 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:42 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:19 BTW, neunon, you succeded in converting me from someone who believed that both GPL and BSD have good uses and who slightly preferred v2 over v3 into a hardliner like Napkin 04:26:24 thanks for forcing me to think 04:26:40 no problem, the debate was indeed thought provoking. 04:27:02 hopefully I haven't made an enemy of you though. ;) 04:27:47 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:13 who am I, the European Union, where debates are about trading concessions in one matter for ones in something completely unrelated? 04:28:25 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:34 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 04:29:09 dpeg... 04:29:24 what if monster stands on portal before tentacle comes out? 04:29:26 I do disagree with you about the licenses, and some other stuff like feature checks vs system zoology in makefiles, but there are other matters where I do agree 04:29:28 push the back? 04:29:41 is there a delay? 04:29:49 there will be 04:30:06 (I'm coding it as we speak) 04:30:28 you might need to recursively push several monsters 04:30:47 heck, this may be an isolated spot where pushing is impossible 04:30:55 kilobyte: system zoology? 04:31:19 due: since the portal should only be created on an empty spot (for example because we want it to be visible), what about nobody stepping on it? 04:31:20 I'm all for letting them get sucked into the portal if they're stupid enough to stand on a tear in the fabric of reality 04:31:24 dpeg: doable 04:31:29 Wensley: ...no 04:31:31 I prefer Wensley's idea 04:31:39 can we use that? 04:31:53 or at least, use that as the reasoning for monsters not to step onto it? 04:31:57 neunon: a table that says i386 is little-endian, powerpc big-endian, arm big-endian (even though it can be both), no data for mips causing a build failure there 04:32:03 anyone knows why the ghost_demon constuctor of dancing_weapons set all resistances to 1? The weapon end with resistances fire:2, cold:2, relec:3 instead of 1,1,2 04:32:05 alternatively, the simply explode as the tentacle bursts lengthwise through their body 04:32:08 *they 04:32:21 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:35 Galehar: is it because they have a strange holiness and get resists from that? 04:32:54 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:05 the problem is the actual resist is different from the one in the description 04:33:11 kilobyte: oh, I certainly agree that was a terrible implementation. it was carried over from a much older project just for making things easier. it gummed up the works in spots, but I like the non-compiler-specific macros that it defines (i.e. TARGET_OS_* and such). 04:33:16 while feature checks are something like "run a compilation of a snippets that fails on big endian, check if it compiled" 04:33:55 due: yes, use that 04:34:00 dpeg: excellent 04:34:08 it should suck small monsters in, like rats and stuff. 04:34:12 yes 04:34:18 hmm 04:34:19 spriggans 04:34:26 hehehe yes 04:34:32 kilobyte: I think the target endian and architecture macros were poorly done (I never even used them, they were cruft), but the OS macros were nice and non-compiler-centric. 04:34:35 neunon: actually, in one place where I needed to know endianness I ended up looking for a header that's common on all platforms rather than running a feature check 04:34:52 I'd like a pandemonium level or late-game vault that takes place on the far-off plane that the malign gateway tentacles come through 04:35:20 *from, rather 04:35:37 kilobyte: :D 04:35:41 so, should I fix the resistances, or the description? Do we want dancing weapons with rF:2, rC:2, rElec:3 or rF:1, rC:1, rElec:2? 04:35:42 welcome! ;) 04:36:28 kilobyte: the only thing I don't like as far as feature checks go (especially automake-like) is that they're very slow. if you have a clean tree, you have to re-run them. the compile-time ones are convenient and have almost no overhead. 04:36:43 neunon: the OS macros misdetected Hurd as OS X, and would fail for example on SCO OpenServer or Syllable 04:36:55 Wensley: portal vault perhaps? 04:37:12 kilobyte: It shouldn't have had the "abort if detection fails" section. and how did it misdetect Hurd? that's peculiar. 04:37:14 Galehar: fix the description 04:37:23 that's why the separation between a configure step and compilation is a good idea 04:37:28 Galehar: dancing weapons have always been rF++ rc++ rElec+++. 04:37:46 OK 04:37:47 due: yes, but was that intended? 04:37:51 due: that's what I meant by "vault", yes :) or perhaps it could take place in the belly of azathoth 04:37:53 I am not sure. 04:37:57 dpeg: Hm. 04:38:15 Such a change would nerf both tukima and normal dancers. 04:38:24 right now you can't say "please recompile religion.o in debug mode" -- you either have "debug" among targets which causes everything to recompile or you're building non-debug (unless you specify all the defines by hand) 04:38:34 @??dancing weapon 04:38:35 Unexpected failure generating monster for dancing weapon 04:39:02 due: isn't DW considered overpowered? 04:39:29 DW? 04:39:37 dancing weapons 04:39:39 dpeg: it _was_ overpowered, they have been nerfed into uselessness now 04:39:43 no 04:39:47 kilobyte: I don't think it's at all good to mix debug/release object files. it very often leads to unexpected results. 04:39:47 they got nerfed in 0.6 or 0.7 04:39:53 kilobyte: useless? 04:40:06 ok, mostly useless 04:40:06 people don't use the spell any more 04:40:12 not completely useless 04:40:18 but hardly anyone uses it any more 04:40:26 03kilobyte * rd0c0a12b5ed5 10/crawl-ref/source/util/checkwhite: Make tab expansion a bit smarter. 04:40:26 due: also, be aware that creating something that looks like a portal (MG spell) where nothing happens for a while will make players go there and press < or > :) 04:40:40 dpeg: yes, I know. Hence players won't be able to enter the square. 04:40:42 03kilobyte * r517395a21e6b 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Show map knowledge flags on 'x' in debug mode. 04:40:56 and monsters I guess? 04:40:59 this is because animating a dagger does not create a steamroller anymore? 04:41:01 due: rather, players may enter the square and be immediately banished to the belly of azathoth 04:41:06 that would solve the problem with pushing them 04:41:08 Wensley: well, yeah, but not just yet. 04:41:08 Wensley: someone has to code it. 04:41:10 kilobyte: exactly 04:41:23 the monsters can go, of course 04:41:27 (no xp etc) 04:42:45 Wensley: about that "belly of azathoth", could you please contribute stuff to dat/database/miscname.txt:SHT_int_loss ? 04:43:05 sure thing :) 04:43:09 due: does the length of the tentacle depend on the power of the spell? 04:43:11 we have a theme ffor this? 04:43:19 Wensley: I'm not so sure. 04:43:24 Wensley: Charles implemented most of the code 04:44:08 Wensley: I'm totally unable to produce that manner of speech myself... 04:45:05 "Your quiver within your mortal coil, caressed by the liquid insanity through the scintillating gateway.", "You have a brief vision of a great black cyclopean cityscape with towering stygian walls." 04:45:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:46:02 I had an (online) friend who sometimes used such stuff in her regular speech 04:46:13 kilobyte: it's a bad sign! 04:46:14 which requires an... altered... state of mind :p 04:46:31 the summon horrible things spell mentions that the creatures are called from the abyss, so i suggested malign gateway do too. 04:46:47 kilobyte: interesting, are these used in the game currently? 04:46:52 these lines, I mean 04:47:00 Summon Horrible Things, int loss 04:47:02 you get them when you cast horrible things 04:47:13 due: I think for consistency it'd be better if the player could move towards the portal, just get a prompt. 04:47:32 yeah, but there are only 6 lines that don't even use randomization for their parts, so that's damn repetitive 04:47:45 randomisation would be easy for that matter 04:48:02 a prompt for "do you want to be insta-killed"? 04:49:24 no, large monsters shouldn't be instakilled, just damaged 04:49:29 or we do something completely different 04:49:38 tloc miscasts? 04:50:09 due: I take it you want the portal to be visible for two reasons: (1) anti-abuse and (2) showing portal to player (so they understand the spell)? 04:50:13 -!- doy has left ##crawl-dev 04:50:25 Mu_: blink, and if all else fails, banishment :) 04:51:03 the spell looks really strange without a portal, just some tentacles from nowhere :P 04:51:48 yes, I understand 04:52:00 dpeg: yes 04:52:16 Not from the abyss... 04:52:36 I would like it best if we don't specify where that tentacle comes from. 04:53:29 what about making the portal strongly repulsive? If you move into it, you are repelled (i.e. blinked away plus damage) 04:53:42 this is always possible 04:53:58 dpeg: Ooh, I like that even more. 04:54:09 tbh the abyss would be cooler if it was less demonic and more lurking horror and tentacled starspawn 04:54:24 tentacled starspawn <3. 04:54:30 :P 04:54:32 too many demons 04:54:40 we need pure abyss monsters, i agree 04:54:49 completely alien stuff that even the demons are afraid of 04:55:04 Mu_: yes. For later :) 04:55:20 Abyss, Hells and Pan should diverge 04:55:39 I'm definitely for coming up with completely alien concepts for monsters. 04:55:41 in various regards: monsters, layout, monster generation over time 04:56:04 Mu_: will you start a wiki page about alien monsters for abyss? 04:56:08 I wonder how we could code a twisted topology of the space 04:56:29 kilobyte: something like Jeff Lait's roguelike from last year? 04:56:31 do we have the glyphs for it? :P 04:56:40 due: what about ^ for MG? 04:56:46 or asciiportal? 04:56:57 dpeg: never seen it 04:57:01 dpeg: As the portal glyph? 04:57:18 I think / is the only optionn, otherwise it will be too confusing. 04:57:41 but... ^ might also make sense. 04:57:54 crazy idea: if you get hit by some nasty tloc spell, you suffer the metric changing into squarelos for a while :p 04:58:07 kilobyte: that's just evil 04:59:03 due: no, my idea for making sure the portal is seen for a while (repulsive blinking) 04:59:13 kilobyte: :) 04:59:25 would that blinking let you move over the portal? 04:59:35 or just repulse you in the direction you came from? 05:00:02 ideally back to where you came from 05:00:18 if it's really crowded, you only go back to your place 05:00:36 but we agree that MG should have 3x3 open space around it, so often it will work very well 05:00:38 -!- Galehar has quit [] 05:00:52 -!- neunon has left ##crawl-dev 05:01:09 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:30 dpeg: is it that "Jacob's Matrix" thingy? 05:01:48 yes 05:09:19 this is so about to crash 05:09:44 oh my god it worked. 05:10:07 * due astonished. 05:13:41 moin 05:16:13 I hate C++ a lot 05:16:30 misc.cc:1843: error: no match for ternary ‘operator?:’ in ‘is_player ? you : mmark->map_malign_gateway_marker::caster’ 05:16:33 due: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:abyss there you go :p 05:16:38 is_player = bool 05:16:40 what am I doing wrong? 05:17:30 hm 05:18:13 oh, hey kilobyte? Monster is AGPLv3 - not just GPLv3 ;D 05:18:23 cannot help :( 05:18:37 AGPL? 05:18:56 yes, sir :) 05:19:07 dpeg: omg the delay works 05:19:16 :D 05:19:30 * due does a dance. 05:19:34 due: "...differs from the version of the GNU GPL on which it is based in having an additional provision addressing use of software over a computer network. The additional provision requires that the complete source code be made available to any network user of the AGPL-licensed work, typically a Web application." 05:20:07 Gretell & Monster 05:20:07 ... 05:20:37 would be a great license for dgl too, btw 05:22:36 would be better if dgl were great code ;-) 05:22:50 !coffee due 05:22:50 * Henzell hands due a barrel of black coffee, brewed by Snorg. 05:22:59 nice, a barrel 05:23:11 hey bhaak :) 05:23:26 moin Napkin 05:23:29 Napkin: yeah, and GPLv3 contains an explicit permission that makes it compatible with Affero 05:23:57 *phew* 05:23:57 Hm, I can safely dynamic_cast(&you); right? 05:24:24 I hate dcasting 05:24:35 why would you need a dynamic_cast<>? 05:24:50 okay 05:24:53 which cast should I use then? 05:25:03 actor* is a parent type for player* 05:25:10 yes, i know 05:25:12 do you even need one? 05:25:21 hm 05:25:29 I tried it without the cast a minute ago and it died. 05:25:33 oh 05:25:46 duh, caster = you != caster = &you when cast = actor*. 05:25:49 I hate hate hate pointers. 05:25:52 the only case I can think you may require it is foo ? &you : monster 05:26:33 pointers are just fine when the language doesn't try to hide them from you 05:27:06 I just find them confusing 05:28:33 C++ is an insane mess 05:28:42 agree 05:28:48 I created my very first C++ class today! 05:28:53 by copying and pasting another one and changing the names ;) 05:28:58 regarding licenses, would it be okay to state "GPLv2 or v3"? 05:29:11 due: this is how it always starts. 05:29:16 dpeg: Yeah. 05:29:20 since you can have object functionality in C without any syntactic sugar, the only actually useful thing C++ has over C are strings 05:30:25 kilobyte, the whole broad range of data structures in the C++ template library, really 05:30:32 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:45 kilobyte: you also lose compiler warnings/errors regarding the object functionality 05:32:05 Zaba: it's mostly just AVL (STL doesn't even have hashes) 05:32:18 Is a new marker type completely overboard for this? I don't personally think so, but... 05:32:46 AVL is a really useful thing, but you can have it in C just as well 05:32:47 due: no, why should it? 05:32:52 lunch 05:33:19 Mu_: the tentacle does move about when it dies. 05:33:41 it writhes 05:33:52 it doesn't propel itself 05:34:33 do you think it should leave corpses? 05:39:23 woot I almost had a heartattack! couldn't find my KMONS SUBST lines etc for my vault. was looking at the wrong vault :D 05:39:59 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:27 03raphael.langella * r12b7ba421ec1 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: mark potions of brilliance and scrolls of amnesia as useless for Troglodytes 05:44:36 03raphael.langella * r1b09c4d95b7f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (ghost.cc mon-data.h): fix dancing weapon resistance description 05:45:13 hrm, the CIA hook is not working 05:45:34 it's supposed to hide my real name? 05:46:19 galehar: potions of brilliance give an INT boost, berserkers are the class which tends to have abysmally low INT so they are ones most likely to benefit from them 05:46:39 you mean in case of stat drain? 05:46:59 because INT hasn't any use outside spellcasting, right? 05:47:21 yeah 05:48:14 ok, I'm reverting that then 05:49:29 I keep scrolls of amnesia as useless for troglodytes 05:53:34 03raphael.langella * r22b46237b99c 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: potions of brilliance can be useful in case of stat drain 05:54:06 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 05:54:46 kilobyte, I'm not saying that it's impossible, only that it being a part of the language standard is somewhat an advantage. 06:03:51 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:15 dpeg: for Ashenzari's piety titles, do you prefer the English version by Eronarn or Romanian by blue_anna? 06:10:40 kilobyte: did you upload the new hook? 06:12:04 due: 8d9c235d 06:12:21 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 06:13:12 but did you actually push it to sourceforge? 06:13:23 you have to request a shell and log in and replace the live copy 06:14:16 ah, no 06:14:41 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:42 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:50 yeah, that's an essential step 06:15:07 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest31478 06:16:23 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:26 dpeg, Mu_, what do you think of rneaming demonic tentacle to alien tentacle? 06:17:36 or something other than demonic. 06:17:49 alien would be fine, if only it didn't sound so unthematic :P 06:17:50 "Lovecraftian tentacle" works ;) 06:18:04 Zaba: yes, that's the problem. 06:19:44 a synonym of otherworldy would be good 06:21:58 -1 to alien 06:22:08 but other than demonic would be fine 06:24:15 back 06:24:23 kilobyte: I don't really mind. 06:24:55 What about "[coloured] tentacle"? 06:25:38 hm 06:26:11 could also include other adjectives: monstrous, fleshy, etc. 06:26:16 chosen at random for each MG 06:26:29 monstrous tentacle <3 06:26:47 otherwordly tentacle? 06:26:51 unwielddy tentacle? 06:27:18 not otherworld... the tentacle comes out of a strange portal, plain to see 06:29:28 =) 06:29:54 right... due, could you decide then: Eronarn's or blue_anna's version? https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:ashenzari 06:30:09 * kilobyte wants to shove the responsibility for choosing :p 06:31:16 !rng Ero blueanna 06:31:16 The RNG chooses: Ero. 06:31:17 kilobyte: do terminals even support those glyphs? 06:31:33 where are they? 06:31:56 onarn's 06:32:04 Eronarn's, even 06:32:15 while blueanna's are awesome, I think it's just gong to be too confusing. 06:32:32 Wensley: already fixed in the unicode branch 06:33:02 I thought the unicode branch got fucked with Windows? 06:33:04 with a fallback to plain ascii 06:33:53 due: no, it's only the default mode being incapable of displaying anything not in a single "code page" at a time 06:34:33 due: the API still works in Unicode mode, you just are limited to a set of glyphs that are present in, say, CP437 06:35:17 due: this means that if your user name (and thus directory) includes a national character, error messages will not show that properly 06:35:36 and other such details, but no regressions from what we have now 06:35:47 malign tentacle? :p 06:35:56 Mu_: good 06:35:58 oh 06:36:02 Mu_: both malign and friendly at the same time? 06:36:06 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:36:33 ??potion of cure mutation 06:36:33 potion of cure mutation[1/1]: Removes 1 to 7 randomly chosen mutation. Note that quaffing this while wearing rMut will block attempts to cure mutations! Don't forget that the effects of a potion of gain $STAT works by causing a precisely defined mutation. 06:37:22 i think it will eventually turn hostile 06:38:07 you could just give it a bunch of possible random adjectives i guess 06:38:18 due: actually, during installation, we can specify in the shortcut that the window should use Lucida Console or Consolas (Vista/7) by default. Lucida looks abysmally ugly, but it has at least WGL4 coverage -- and Consolas is a kick-ass font. 06:38:19 oh that was said already 06:38:43 kilobyte: Well that's okay then. 06:38:46 Carry on! 06:39:30 Mu_ the map creator expert I need some help :D 06:40:41 http://pastebin.com/N99bbcck I want the lava and water to shuffle. and I want 'KLMN' to be where the water is. and I want 'ghij' to be where the lava is. in other words when water and lava swaps. the 'KLMN' will swap with 'ghij' 06:40:43 ;D 06:40:55 "Star-crossed", "Cursed", "Initiated", "Seer", "Oracle", "Sybil", "Illuminatus", "Omniescent" 06:41:38 "Sybil" seems to be out of place for me. What about removing it and inserting "Soothsayer" before "Oracle"? 06:41:51 Sure 06:41:55 Sybil is a weird name anyway. 06:43:11 rkd: you can shuffle blocks 06:43:15 rkd: i think you just use SHUFFLE: wKLMN / lghij 06:43:25 SHUFFLE: wKLMN / lghij 06:43:29 kk 06:43:31 also, there's documentation 06:43:38 yea, but it's hard to read :D 06:43:43 kilobyte: go ahead! 06:43:45 rkd: seriously? 06:43:51 If yes, I need to do something about it 06:45:16 well it's just, not everything is that clear cut if you've never done this before :o and I'm a bit lazy reading through it all. I mostly do stuff untill I hit a problem then I try to learn :D 06:45:35 what colour would fit messages from Ashenzari best? 06:45:42 kilobyte: white? 06:45:55 Magenta? 06:45:55 kilobyte: by the way, I never said this: many thanks for doing Ash. 06:46:01 May he bless you forevermore. 06:46:10 orange 06:46:15 ORANGE<3 06:46:22 * kilobyte would prefer to stay away from Ashenzari's "blessing" :p 06:46:32 like the statues :P 06:47:18 is this vault for the glow gave portal? 06:47:24 yea 06:47:40 and the altar? ETC_CRYSTAL is lightgrey/green/lightred, but that looks weird 06:47:52 lightred 06:48:26 rkd: Mu is our vault meister. Would you like to have Mu look after your map? 06:48:33 Mu_: Would you like to look after rkd 06:48:36 's map? 06:48:54 definetly :) 06:48:58 what does lookin after it mean? :P 06:49:07 Okay, I hacked the portal to be solid. 06:49:42 well I should be "completely" done with this vault soon. so you guys can look it over and do whatever with it :) 06:50:10 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:43 your vault has a chance of generating 3 electric golems in a room, bit over the top :P 06:52:12 Mu_: comments like these 06:53:32 ok ;p 06:53:52 yea had forgot to remove 1 from the 134 shuffle 06:53:52 :P 06:55:31 03kilobyte * rcf6d6a51602d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h fprop.h godconduct.cc view.cc): Track exploration as a god conduct. 06:55:32 03kilobyte * r0b25078c9617 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Ashenzari: enums, altar and descriptions. 06:55:39 yay 06:56:02 dpeg: there needs to be some feedback about "bound" body parts, it's somewhat hard to understand for players 06:56:03 did you just change enum.h? 06:56:05 i hate you so much 06:56:25 due: hmm, lemme add the enums for abilities before you pull then 06:57:07 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:38 rkd: i don't think 6 will produce water elementals if you're using KFEAT after MONS, you'll have to KMONS them (i could be wrong though) 06:57:56 ok 06:57:57 kilobyte: hah 06:58:00 I'm not that sure if that "scrying" invocation is so hot 06:58:08 Mu_: you will have to KMONS if you KFEAT 6 06:58:18 kilobyte: it's okay, i'm not finished this code yet anyway 06:58:21 ye ok thought so 06:58:33 got the temporary portals as unpassable, just adding the "blink away + damage+ aspect. 06:59:10 NSUBST: w = 4:r / *:w 06:59:11 KFEAT: r = w 06:59:11 KMONS: r = water elemental 06:59:24 ye 06:59:44 KFEAT: r = deep_water 07:00:09 there's no feature named w :P 07:00:09 :) done 07:00:34 now I just need to decide what shall be inside the castle 07:01:13 also there's no such monster as archer statue, those are customized statues 07:01:58 kilobyte: yes, I will come up with something. Will an email do? 07:02:33 IC, I would like another customized statue for this vault tho, a "radiant crystal statue" that a) has a polymorph other spell. or b) has a radiation field. that is stronger the closer you get to it. IE it adds glow from being near it. 07:02:35 kilobyte: scying: do you mean it's too weak, or overpowered? 07:03:24 rkd: you'd need to make a new monster for the latter 07:03:46 kilobyte: it should be really strong: you see monsters without them seeing you. 07:06:38 I think Menna's description is slightly profane, but I like him nonetheless :) 07:06:48 ?whereis dpeque 07:06:52 @whereis dpeque 07:06:53 dpeque the Harbinger of Death (L17 DSFi), a worshipper of Yredelemnul, is currently on D:25 after 53165 turns. 07:06:53 is anyone working on glowcaves? is there a des file hidden in some branch? :P 07:07:01 Mu_: no 07:07:26 mennas might hurt you quite badly :P 07:07:46 nice 07:08:29 he did :) 07:08:39 But I've got Yredelemnul on my side! 07:08:54 i'm not entirely sure why he calls down the wrath of the shining one, gretell doesn't say he has smite 07:10:14 @??mennas 07:10:31 Gretell, speak to me! 07:10:53 gretell can't show stats for elemental coloured enemies using @?? :P 07:10:55 @?mennas 07:10:55 Mennas (15A) | Speed: 15 | HD: 19 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 15/28 | Damage: 30, 20 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(202), 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 6578 | Sp: confuse, silence, minor healing. 07:11:13 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:04 interesting 07:18:00 !tell by please make a new squarelos windows build 07:18:00 ortoslon: OK, I'll let by know. 07:21:19 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:29 re 07:28:15 rehi Galehar 07:31:49 dpeque the Harbinger of Death :) 07:32:53 Hey, we now have black sheep. Cool! 07:33:12 -!- neunon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:48 Frederick says, "All of you adventurers look the same to me! Bumbling 07:33:48 _weaklings, the lot!" 07:34:01 I think I wrote that one. 07:35:56 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 07:38:55 :S just loot left 07:39:27 tho not really sure how to make items that spawn get "MUT" 07:39:39 You can't really. 07:39:50 dpeg: just in one vault, and it spawns only in Shoals 07:39:55 Fingers crossed... ooh 07:40:00 Okay 07:40:04 kilobyte: hey, nice 07:40:07 I pushed my malign gateway changes with a done/to-do list. 07:40:29 There's still a few things to be done/hackiness to remove. 07:40:31 Shower then bed. 07:40:46 03due * r00824734f62d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Improve Malign Gateway. 07:40:56 okay then, does anyone know of any unrandarts that have MUT? :p 07:41:14 rkd: plutonium sword for example 07:41:49 rkd: and the robe of misfortune 07:42:09 cool 07:42:41 dpeg: Scrying + Airstrike/Firestorm = free kills 07:42:57 since it costs lots of piety, this might be somewhat acceptable 07:43:04 but it 07:43:11 's something to think about 07:45:28 kilobyte: oh no, you cannot attack them! 07:45:34 You can just watch. 07:45:57 kilobyte: technically, the wall is _shown_ as transparent, but is actual wall for all other purposes. 07:49:03 LOS spells assume that you can target everything in, well, LOS 07:51:05 since there are thousands of checks "can you see X?" which should say "yes", I guess we can just add another check when targetting 07:51:28 yes, just abort all targetting 07:52:53 one-way glass is ergo difficlut in that case 07:53:10 due: but it will be a strong and unique effect 07:53:13 sure 07:53:16 I'm quite afraid we have loads of places that assume vision is reciprocal :( 07:53:43 kilobyte: Unfortunately, yes. 07:53:51 we could emulate it with lots of detect powers 07:54:02 super-detect? 07:54:07 if you know the place of all nearby features, monsters, items ==> same as scrying 07:54:08 That would make sense. 07:54:18 You don't have to be able to see them, you just have to know. 07:55:21 anyway, I have a working version, sans blocking smite spells 07:55:26 should I push it for now? 07:56:32 sure 07:56:49 due: but Ash has passive detection powers already 07:56:52 but they're limited 07:57:02 scyring, the only active one, would let you look through walls 07:58:05 Just disable smite-targetted spells during scrying then. 07:58:29 well, it is a little more tricky 07:58:38 for sometimes, there could be transparent walls :) 07:58:43 temporarily of course :) 07:58:48 There has to be a sight-check using real walls 07:59:09 and you might want to smite something which is effectively in you LOS 07:59:24 yes 07:59:33 is ashenzari in trunk or branch? 08:01:20 trunk but his altars never spawn 08:01:29 ah 08:03:08 Got to play some HaSt once Ash is in, I think. 08:04:37 portal might make a bit too much smoke :P 08:04:38 how long should it last? 08:04:47 kilobyte: scrying? 08:04:57 yeah 08:05:03 it has piety cost of 5-6 08:05:24 can be short, something like 10-20 turns? 08:05:50 due: you can make the portal repel you even when the tentacle is on the tile so you can't move onto it 08:06:20 there are no other abilities you can use to train Invocations, so players will have very little skill 08:06:42 hrm, for an ability with such a cost, this is a major issue 08:06:53 kilobyte: Ash is a god wihout invocations! 08:07:06 Mu_: what do you mean? 08:07:07 just use piety 08:07:16 Mu_: you can't swap places with the tentacle 08:07:28 dpeg: oh, good! 08:07:36 kilobyte: with only one ability, we don't want players to use Invocations. It is a very passive god. 08:07:44 For laidback stabbers :) 08:07:54 due: it says 'really attack your tentacle', you say no, it blinks you as if you tried to move onto the square 08:08:05 hm 08:08:14 hm, you're right. 08:08:25 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:55 boo, i set my piety to 200 with ash and crawl crashed :P 08:10:22 anyone want to write a posting in our wordpress about this? http://iferrorthrownewbrick.blogspot.com/2010/10/crawl-tiles-announcned-public-domain.html 08:11:43 * kilobyte likes the site's name. 08:11:58 * due not me. 08:12:05 Mu_: yeah, the list of abilities was missing 08:12:37 03kilobyte * reb6eb9d20d5e 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Make Scrying not use invocations. 08:12:47 03kilobyte * rca203269a069 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Ashenzari's scrying. 08:18:39 I got KITEM: Q = potion of cure mutation. I got 3 'Q'. I want 2 of them to always be potion of cure mut, and one 'Q' to have a 50/50 chance to be cure mut potion 08:20:03 rkd: have a R and subst it for Q. 08:20:56 I allready got NSUBST: u = 3:Q / 1:Z / *:u 08:21:38 NSUBST: u = 2:Q / 1:R / 1:Z / *:u 08:21:51 (you can't randomize directly within NSUBST) 08:22:04 and then KITEM: R = potion of cure mutation / nothing 08:22:08 I'm assuming 08:24:11 or heck, u = 5:Q / ..., and Q 50% 08:25:18 well I'm finnished for now atleast. 08:25:18 http://pastebin.com/gj0MBhHi 08:25:25 should maybe post it on mantis also 08:27:31 -!- enne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:34 ??mutagenic cloud 08:28:35 I don't have a page labeled mutagenic_cloud in my learndb. 08:28:39 ??mutagenic 08:28:39 mutagenic[1/2]: Attempts to give a single random mutation. 08:31:57 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 08:34:09 !tell dpeg https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2684 08:34:09 rkd: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 08:36:28 bhaak: submit patches to make dgl great code. :P 08:37:04 paxed: I have a life, you know!? 08:37:26 well, something little resembling something like some sort of life 08:37:47 you just worm out of anything... 08:38:45 paxed: He's a Swiss, they train that at school. 08:38:45 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:38:50 rkd: thanks! 08:42:48 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:12 I'm as much Swiss as a Bavarian is German :) 08:43:53 hey, just joking 08:44:32 aw, we lost sybil? :( 08:45:25 uh oh 08:45:41 dpeg: due is sleeping, how can we explain this? 08:47:11 dpeg: how should transforms count for the number of bound slots? 08:47:41 would it be ok to assume melded slots keep being bound? 08:52:49 kilobyte: yes 09:01:02 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:01:16 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:23 kilobyte: The ^-screen for Ash could have a paragraph (will be two lines long) like: "You are bound in hands and body, but not in magic." 09:02:47 kilobyte: and we would explain in the ^ or ^! screen that bound parts yield better piety gain. 09:03:00 chei-like message on wear could be nice too 09:03:39 hmm... I wanted to exclude weapons, but duh, you can't unwield cursed ones :p 09:03:54 03dolorous * r5a332811915d 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Fix typo. 09:04:03 kilobyte: exclude from what? 09:04:06 I wonder what the scale should be 09:04:27 from the message about bondage level changing 09:05:51 ...bondage level? awesome. 09:06:01 You feel slightly bound. (one level) 09:06:14 You feel completely bound. (three levels) 09:06:37 should we hint about that steep boost between x2 and x5? 09:06:56 (the wiki says levels should be x1, x2, x5, x6) 09:07:36 kinky 09:07:48 kilobyte: you're always welcome to object with the design, by the way. 09:07:54 It's not god given =) 09:08:11 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:12 Usually, we don't speak of "piety (gain)" directly. 09:09:29 "You divine slowly." (1x) 09:10:01 "You divine almost as fast as possible." (x5) ?? 09:10:05 dpeg: so far I silently objected to floor and walls seen by astral vision being dark grey, since it obscured any feedback about what you can see and what not 09:10:11 I know these sound crude, just to get something out of the door. 09:10:25 kilobyte: yes, that wasn't a good idea. I was aware of it but forgot to change. 09:11:06 kilobyte: I think monsters, items, features should have their actual colours. It would be good if floor/walls would somehow indicate that that's "divinely seen". 09:11:22 If you think that the effect is okay without changing colours for wall/floor, also fine. 09:12:26 I think the current effect (pushed to SF) looks good enough 09:12:52 ok 09:13:42 about the scale (x2, x5, x6). You said x5 is to encourage the second step. Don't you fear it will discourage the third? 09:13:43 you can take a look -- either now, or, to better use your time, when more of Ashenzari will be coded 09:13:52 kilobyte: if astral vision is short term, it will be okay 09:13:55 Galehar: good point 09:14:00 going from x2 to x4 is doubling 09:14:02 Galehar: no, I think it is okay like this. 09:14:09 going from x5 to x6 is ... 09:14:17 not worth it 09:14:49 curses will also bring some other benefit 09:14:57 oh, and I made the ability name "Scrying" but the messages mention "astral sight". If that's too NetHackquese, shout. 09:15:00 I think players will keep their jewelry uncursed 09:15:16 Galehar: you can have two cursed one uncursed 09:15:17 kilobyte: is "to scrye" a legitimate verb? 09:15:31 "to scry" 09:15:36 Galehar: you think x2,x4,x6 is better? 09:15:40 kilobyte: why not use that? 09:15:41 yes 09:15:57 sounds odd 09:16:03 ok, got to go... 09:16:09 see you later 09:16:14 bye 09:16:22 Galehar: I didn't want to punish meleers 09:16:25 it'd be nice if you could come up with decent numbers for the # of squares revealed to gain 1 piety 09:17:02 dpeg: so they can keep swaping weapon? 09:17:12 (remember that the gains slow 3x at piety 100, 9x at 150) 09:17:13 because casters don't care 09:17:18 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:41 Galehar: it matters only for maces and staves 09:17:52 and casters do want staves usually 09:19:01 Galehar: yes 09:19:13 why would you use a mace if you choose to follow Ash? 09:19:16 otoh, there is no a spell that chops corpses 09:19:23 Galehar: yes, that's a good point 09:19:33 there's LRD 09:19:34 kilobyte: okay, 2 4 6 09:19:50 Galehar: no, animate skeleton does now too 09:19:56 yes 09:20:04 "no" above should be "now" 09:20:43 kilobyte: I thought about this once, will send email 09:20:49 casters can use animate skeletons for chunks now, so they can get away with it 09:20:52 so if you can keep one slot free for 5/6 piety gain, you choose jewelry 09:21:04 whoops scrolled up 09:21:51 if the rate is 2/3 it's another story 09:22:02 Galehar: yes, I agree 09:22:56 change of subject: how are the monsters learndb entries generated? 09:22:59 is there a script? 09:23:16 yes, gotta ask Napkin 09:24:47 "monsters learndb entries"? 09:25:30 @?hog 09:25:30 hog (05h) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-47 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 14 | Res: 06magic(24) | XP: 196. 09:25:52 that's output of the monster binary - has nothing to do with learndb 09:26:03 hence my confusion 09:26:31 oh ok 09:26:49 the monster binary reads the source of crawl 09:26:55 during compile time 09:27:13 so, it's in crawl's source? 09:27:43 taking the info from there, yes 09:28:44 but what file is it? I'd like to see how it's working 09:29:23 where are its source, 09:29:24 ? 09:31:21 here, Galehar: http://git.develz.org/?p=monster.git;a=summary 09:31:34 thanks 09:34:23 no problem, enjoy :) 09:34:30 just had to make sure it's up to date 09:37:00 I've never seen the new Elf :) 09:37:20 me neither 09:37:23 what's new about it? 09:37:37 look at my game, dpeque on CDO 09:38:05 can't FooTV from work :( 09:38:10 maybe tonight 09:38:19 if you're still playing :) 09:38:34 woah - no telnet? 09:39:15 well no 09:39:17 http proxy 09:40:01 pity 09:40:49 the http proxy here at work supports CONNECT - so luckily putty's ssh with proxy support works 09:41:28 well, here it doesn't, I tried! 09:41:51 I have been able to set up an ssh over http proxy, but it wasn't stable 09:42:29 maybe we get kilobyte's dhtml thingy running one day :) 09:42:41 anyway, I can code and IRC (and play!), so that's cool 09:42:46 what is it? 09:43:23 erm, he should explain that.. but if I understood correctly it'll allow playing via http 09:43:49 awesome, I'll ask him about that :) 09:44:05 Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-1729-g5a33281 (31.2) 09:45:26 Napkin: it would take quite a bit of effort to allow playing, but for an one-sided replay of a ttyrec or spectating, it's a straightfoward thing 09:46:23 footv on the web \o/ 09:47:18 there's a "his" in ashenzari's decription 09:48:00 I hope I properly disabled spawning of his altars :p 09:48:12 I looked it up with ?/G 09:49:28 hrm, I don't even know what _order of magnitude_ of piety gains Ash should grant 09:50:46 kilobyte: composig mail 09:51:00 st_: we will repair, this is not 0.8 yet 09:52:00 Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up! You see this? This... is my boomstick! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that? 09:52:01 hmm, spectating only would be very cool already, kilobyte 09:52:10 better than our screenshot section :) 09:54:17 I'm a bit afraid that simply streaming it as commands in one file might slow down browsers and take a lot of memory, while x-multipart-replace is non-standard 09:55:33 or actually, it should be enough to just restart the stream once in a while 09:57:23 a player who picks up Makhleb or Okawaru or Trog at a Temple, say D:6 -- will he be **** piety before Lair? 09:58:30 certainly 09:58:35 d:8 lair, no 09:58:58 but on average probably 09:59:07 ok 09:59:08 right, D:7 temple and D:8 lair, no way 09:59:11 sure sure 09:59:23 and ****** will be reached before Lair end, right? 09:59:28 but often you get even to avatar before or in early Lair 10:00:01 yeah 10:00:49 last game I had Sif's *****. on like Lair:1 and ****** on like Lair:4 10:01:53 thanks, just to calibrate Ash piety / level 10:02:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:40 can you list the piety thresholds for me, please? 10:06:27 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:45 link would do 10:08:48 @?piety[3] 10:08:48 unknown monster: "piety[3]" 10:08:55 @??piety[3] 10:08:55 unknown monster: "piety[3]" 10:08:58 ??piety[3] 10:08:58 piety[3/6]: Piety growth slows at high levels; 0% at 200, 44% at >=151, 66% at >=101. Sif Muna's taper is slower - 0% at 200, 80% at >=151. 10:09:24 ??piety[3] 10:09:24 piety[3/6]: Piety growth slows at high levels; 0% at 200, 44% at >=151, 66% at >=101. Sif Muna's taper is slower - 0% at 200, 80% at >=151. 10:09:52 thank you! 10:09:58 Henzell knows it all. 10:10:22 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 10:14:35 03dolorous * rf2b2a6fe97a9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Rename "Serpent-Scourge" to "Snakebite". 10:14:38 03dolorous * r4983fdc94470 10/crawl-ref/source/ (17 files in 5 dirs): Rename the holy scourge to the sacred scourge. 10:15:23 03dolorous * r6468cf358556 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Add minor cosmetic fix. 10:27:32 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:20 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:58:12 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:02 -!- Galehar has quit [] 11:10:26 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:10:35 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:45 I miss square LOS 11:11:33 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:33 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 11:11:33 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:26 we all do bmh :( 11:14:34 oh it's gone now :( 11:15:22 it's gone? noooo 11:16:25 is in!? 11:17:23 bmh: sort of 11:17:28 you witness the creation of a god 11:17:43 dpeg: he's documented on the wiki, I take it? 11:29:32 dpeg: hey, this is the third time around for me (jiyva, fedhas). only 24 to go! 11:31:15 bmh: yes 11:31:25 Eronarn: others also want their share of the god cake! 11:31:28 Eronarn: context? 11:31:40 implementation? 11:31:44 dpeg: I still owe you wrath... 11:31:46 bmh: witnessing the creation of a god, i mean :) 11:31:51 ah 11:32:04 Chei turned out so bad due to beer, that's my story and I'm sticking too it ;-) 11:32:48 failed balmers peak? 11:32:48 felirx: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:32:56 !messages 11:32:56 (1/2) dpeg said (2w 6d 8h 32m 58s ago): Did you make progess with the menu structure? (Happened to read the interface wiki page.) 11:33:03 !messages 11:33:03 (1/1) dpeg_ said (1d 23h 40m 42s ago): It is feasible to finish the work you indicate in https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_implementables#internal_consistency ? (Six months ago, so maybe not. But it'd be worth it!) 11:33:05 felirx: oh god. I missed the Balmer peak once in college. 11:33:18 Me and a partner were pair programming and we implemented the wrong assignment 11:33:48 felirx: tell me! :) 11:34:17 it's currently in place but lacks multiselect support and paging 11:34:19 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:34:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:33 and perhaps a bit cleaner way to initialize different menus 11:34:35 bmh: yes, please hand over whatever wrath stuff you have. 11:34:49 felirx: if you think it's worthwhile ---> Mantis patch please 11:34:58 patch? 11:35:02 it's in the git already 11:35:02 dpeg: nothing new since Chei wrath 11:35:44 felirx: ah, so the wiki comment is misleading 11:35:55 bmh: severity is used everywhere? 11:35:57 it was added during the development process 11:36:03 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:03 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 11:36:03 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:30 dpeg: I'll quit playing and write you some code 11:36:50 felirx: would you update the wiki section, so we see what's still missing? That might reduce the urgency counter. 11:36:59 bmh: cool 11:38:32 mmm was there a way to add timestamp/user to an entny on wiki 11:38:55 felirx: yes, button row at the top, second rightmost 11:40:28 hmm, I have no buttons like that 11:41:10 ah there, noscript <3 11:41:13 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 11:41:13 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:26 I hate compiling crawl 11:44:28 I should make tea. 12:00:26 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:05 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:05 -!- enne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:30 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:07 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:01 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:01 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 12:25:01 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:48 -!- enne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:15 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:05 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:16 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:32 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:10:57 re: re-licensing: is someone getting Linley to sign off on changing the license? 13:11:12 I was under the impression that some of the older contributors are impossible to contact 13:13:48 -!- jarpiain_ is now known as jarpiain 13:23:05 Linley is ok 13:23:12 rad 13:23:35 dpeg: I found a flaw in the tension mechanic: If you worship Lugonu, you still get a tension boost for being the Abyss (oops!) 13:27:25 bmh: that's probably just a sign error... it should be the other way around. 13:28:30 dpeg: no no, it doesn't inquire about Lugonu worship at all 13:39:23 bmh: sorry, had just to escape the Abyss :) 13:39:32 bmh: I don't understand. 13:39:45 It seems reasonable that tension is lower in the Abyss for Lugonites... 14:01:39 <3 tension 14:04:28 yes, it is not perfect, but quite ok for Xom and DS 14:07:05 Crash when entering a certain area of shoals (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2689) by fineX 14:07:16 -!- lorimer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:56 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:48 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:09 XL 21, done Snake & Shoals... and no source of rPois in the game :) 14:20:54 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: bye] 14:21:22 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:02 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:34 03raphael.langella * r70a7cff46cba 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Restore casting noise for monsters 14:45:41 is it reasonable to set tension for Lugonu worshippers in the Abyss to 0? 14:51:52 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:54:15 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:36 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:36 -!- monky has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:36 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:40 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:22 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:22 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS squarelos 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15:10:29 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:29 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:29 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:29 -!- CIA-81 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:29 -!- RjY has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:29 -!- ogaz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:58 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:43 bmh: we talked with Linley beforehand (since any relicensing obviously has to start with him), and he chose GPL 15:21:51 rad 15:22:11 kilobyte: do you have any input on the wrath questions I've been dumping on the chan? 15:22:55 about taking that whooping 18*4 bytes of memory? 15:23:06 I just don't want to clutter things up 15:23:21 that would be so preposterous and put Crawl into major swappage... 15:23:30 damn, that would be terrible 15:23:43 ok, the idea is to track the overall debt a player owes his god 15:24:06 it's so bad to add 18*4 to half the GB we take for tiles and 100MB for console already... just think about the proportion 15:24:26 do you want just the highest piety on record or the total piety you ever gained? 15:24:53 It should probably be total piety gained 15:25:03 with a slow decay 15:25:11 different gods have different piety dynamics, though... with Zin, you hardly lose or gain, with Trog or Makhleb you gain a lot, it decays quickly and you spend it in large amounts 15:26:08 I figure that Trog and Okie should also be more angry if they've given you gifts 15:26:49 Beogh gives a lot of gifts too... so does Yred. And Makhleb, on request. 15:27:07 Vehumet and Sif too 15:27:15 and Nemelex 15:28:09 or Xom... with most gifts intentionally useless 15:28:22 I've had Xom give chaos weapons to my enemies 15:28:23 that's fun 15:29:40 also, I believe we're moving toward god summons not decreasing piety, but instead killing god summons decreases piety 15:30:52 well, what for? 15:31:03 %s/piety/penance 15:31:04 that would encourage summoning massive armies 15:31:10 yes 15:39:02 -!- Napkin is now known as noob_napkin 15:39:45 * noob_napkin whistles innocently * 15:40:49 sup noob_napkin 15:41:30 * bmh greps the source for HACK 15:54:23 =) 15:56:13 I believe that these are all the gifters: 15:57:01 Beogh, Okie, Trog: weapons, Nemelex: decks, Vehumet, Sif: Books, Kiku: Necronom, Lugno, TSO: bless, Xom: whatever, Zin: cure, Jiyva: slime loot 15:57:24 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:17 kiku gifts other books and also blesses 15:58:57 oh, I was a little confused by the Kiku code 15:59:10 no, I'm not 15:59:37 someone introduced a hack where Necro gifting is tracked by num_gifts for Kiku 16:00:23 oh, there it is 16:00:25 Also I don't think Jiyva actually gives loot, although she does give mutations 16:01:37 Jiyva does give loot: simple_god_message(" will now unseal the treasures of the Slime Pits."); 16:02:16 -!- Iainuki_ is now known as Iainuki 16:02:16 that's jiyva removing the slime:6 walls 16:02:35 six of one, half a dozen of the other. 16:03:14 not really; that stuff would be there either way 16:03:43 I've gotten all the Slime:6 loot with a sub-level 10 character 16:08:14 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:50 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 16:31:25 -!- rkd has quit [] 16:34:19 anyone home? 16:35:53 yes, I don't generally sit at work at 23:35. 16:36:02 :-P 16:36:25 it's 14:36 here, so i do. :P 16:36:51 "#error DEBUG and NDEBUG are out of sync!" -- any insight into what I broke? 16:37:27 I added a FixedVector to player and added a new enum for tracking Kiku gifting 16:39:28 back 16:39:35 where do you live kilobyte? 16:39:49 somewhere in continental Europe, I presume. 16:39:59 Polackland 16:40:11 oh duh, you name ends in -ski 16:40:12 :) 16:40:15 I see 16:41:13 nasdrovia! 16:42:48 galehar: how close to Paris are you? 16:42:55 far 16:43:00 I'm in Toulouse 16:43:04 south of France 16:43:06 * bmh doesn't live anywhere near Birmingham 16:43:48 how's the weather? ;) 16:44:10 I'll let you know when I figure out this celsius thing 16:44:35 lol 16:49:35 oh phew, that's what went wrong. I accidentally stomped AppHdr.cc 16:53:32 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:32 -!- Guest31478 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:01 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:14 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:27 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest35129 17:01:14 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:58 hey guys, I have a friend playing trunk sprint and he thinks a few enemy behaviors are buggy, would anyone be able to tell me if these are known bugs? 17:06:14 what behaviors 17:06:42 apparently a deep elf demonologist walked on water, and alistair's had an immediate effect for some enemies and a delayed effect on others 17:07:55 that demonologist is Beogh's first non-orcish convert 17:08:23 or rather, to clarify, alistair's didn't confuse some enemies the first time he casted it, but did confuse them the second time 17:08:53 that's just resistance stopping the effect the first time but not the second 17:09:03 alistair's isn't irresistible anymore? 17:09:25 was it before? i haven't used it much 17:09:55 any successful cast is supposed to confuse every humanoid enemy in sight without a save 17:10:07 ??alistair's intoxication[2] 17:10:07 alistairs intoxication[2/3]: If the monster is susceptible to the spell and not magic immune, it is 100% unresistable. This lends significant advantages over the Level 6 Enchantment spell Mass Confusion. 17:10:40 ah 17:10:56 the thing is, if it didn't confuse an enemy the first time and did confuse them the second time, that shouldn't be possible 17:11:04 not sure what's up with the "walking on water" thing 17:11:18 was it flying/levitating 17:11:30 and was it really over water 17:13:07 can monsters drink potions of levitation? 17:15:25 according to my friend here's the sequence of events: demonologist sees him, and steps over the square of water that's keeping the rest of the elves from him. friend uses alistair's once, demonologist is unaffected. demonologist comes closer, walks onto land. friend uses alistair's again, it works, and demonologist stumbles back over water and does not drown. friend inspects his square, it... 17:15:27 ...doesn't say he's flying or levitating. friend stabs demonologist to death 17:16:02 /home/brendan/dev/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/WIZARD/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des:915: Unknown unrand art: serpent-scourge 17:16:25 am I missing a submodule? 17:16:33 has serpent-scourge been renamed yet? 17:16:39 it has 17:16:44 few hours ago 17:17:04 ok 17:17:31 Wensley: I don't suppose it's shallow water? 17:17:47 sprint III elfblocking water is deep 17:17:55 nope, it was the deep water in the elf room in sprint III 17:18:17 does the server save trunk sprint ttyrecs? 17:18:17 @??deep elf demonologist 17:18:18 deep elf demonologist (08e) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 41-66 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 12 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(96) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1114 | Sp: demon, banishment, greater demon, call imp, teleport self. 17:18:47 can monsters quaff !lev 17:19:13 probably just healing potions 17:19:29 I've seen monsters quaff invis, hasting, berserk 17:19:40 hasting/speed 17:19:49 LexAckson i take it? 17:19:49 oh yeah invis 17:19:51 probably might too 17:20:00 mu: correct 17:20:02 they don't drink lev 17:20:07 just checked the source 17:20:09 I wouldn't be surprised if they could lev over things 17:21:21 wensley: your friend should lay off the drugs, and fill a bug report ;) 17:22:00 I just wonder how to reproduce it 17:23:05 galehar: lay off the drugs how? :) are you watching his game right now? 17:23:28 no, I'm just joking 17:23:31 from where he's standing atm if he stabbed the elf it wasn't over water 17:23:38 but it does seem strange... 17:23:55 alistair's substance abuse 17:26:01 where is the abyss layout generated? 17:26:36 abyss.cc? 17:26:41 that would be sensible 17:32:16 mmm -- GPLed noise code 17:32:48 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 17:33:30 what type of noise? 17:33:36 kilobyte: Simplex noise 17:33:50 http://www.koders.com/cpp/fidB8EE934E0C10AE1E73AD4A049E8582222F4868B7.aspx?s=simplex#L1 17:36:18 ah, so it's perlin 2.0 17:36:38 the complexity grows linear in its dimensionality rather than exponentially 17:37:05 I've played with perlin 1.0 for dungeon generation, but I didn't get any good results. 17:37:18 you'd said. 17:37:20 for us, dimension is max 3 (two spatial and time) 17:37:37 that's hardly true! 17:37:50 granted, we're taking a 2d slice 17:37:58 but we can translate that slice however we see fit 17:38:14 of course, this doesn't mean there can't be any, just that I didn't get anything that can't be obtained in a simpler way 17:38:31 it doesn't matter which slice you take 17:38:51 there are a few things that suck with perlin noise, like axially aligned artifacts 17:39:08 I don't think we'll be able to notice them in crawl 17:39:35 the problem is, perlin (both versions) produces a height (density, etc) map, which can't be transformed into an one-bit map in a straightforward way 17:40:10 merely doing a threshold at some value leads to disjoint parts, and I can't think of a stable algorithm to connect them 17:40:49 kilobyte: I think what we're interested in is percolation 17:41:04 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Percolation_theory 17:41:12 "stable" as in "not making big changes when you step in the 3rd dimension just a bit" 17:43:29 kilobyte: I'll figure out something sensible once I'm done wrathing 17:44:05 night 17:44:06 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:56:59 is there enough dev support for the new chei step from time proposed here: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:cheibriados for me to try to implement it? 17:57:56 or should I just go do it 18:04:04 sounds like thorough haste rather than slowing to me 18:06:54 huh? 18:11:48 that proposal is to stop everything and let you move with infinite speed for a while 18:12:17 oh 18:12:30 I suppose that's one way of looking at it? 18:13:00 in the same way as bend time is like haste, per og17's comment 18:20:39 03kilobyte * rb2e012cfc3ad 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godconduct.cc godpassive.cc godpassive.h): Ashenzari: give piety for exploration. 18:20:42 03kilobyte * rf3c407f1a0f0 10/crawl-ref/source/player.h: Move a pair of non-saved fields to that section of player.h 18:20:43 03kilobyte * r1c07d7580e5d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Ashenzari: announce when bondage level changes. 18:20:47 03kilobyte * r9d662fcf2d50 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Ashenzari: give a piety boost for picking up runes (dpeg) 18:20:48 03kilobyte * rdd06b8a995ef 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Add an assertion for missing kraken connectivity data. 18:35:26 03dolorous * r08eca60e5486 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Mark Antaeus as not having a corpse. 18:36:04 kilobyte: earlier today you asked me to revise the SHT int drain messages. I have completed this 18:36:33 not sure what to do with it now, though :P 18:39:06 Wensley: share it with us so we can spread the insanity! 18:39:22 shall I email it to you, or is there a more sophisticated method? 18:40:04 there's a page about them here, though it's quite sparse https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:magic:spell:summon_horrible_things 18:40:29 sprunge/pastebin, wiki, anything 18:40:37 I'll put them on that wiki page, then 18:45:07 it is done 18:45:12 my favorite: "Tendrils of madness seep and wend into the darkest crevices of your mind." 18:46:16 "ken"? 18:47:06 means 'knowing' more or less 18:47:14 knowledge, in this case 18:47:23 oh, second dictionary I tried had it 18:47:36 'whinny from outside of time' 18:48:20 "A blood vessel bursts in your brain!" -- that's so out of place there :p 18:48:35 death to sanity! 18:48:37 'Your mind aches with revulsion at the sight of the undulating horrors you have wrought.' is beautiful 18:49:08 yeah 18:49:21 "Lucidity seems to elude you." is a little meek compared to the rest. 18:49:35 that was my second favourite :P 18:54:03 Lucidity slithers from your feeble grasp might keep language better? 18:54:24 oooh 18:56:50 :) 18:57:07 man, now i want to play some arkham horror 19:00:29 aw, thanks guys :) I am glad you enjoy my adjectives to describe madness 19:05:48 03kilobyte * r61be93e97753 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/miscname.txt: Wensley's SHT messages. Sanity is for the weak! 19:06:32 :) 19:07:07 nice, you kept the blood vessel one :P 19:07:56 it's bleak but acceptable 19:08:05 uhm, no. Mummies. 19:08:16 ah good point 19:09:05 oh, sorry :( forgot about those guys 19:09:13 nobody cares about mummies 19:09:28 "You struggle to grasp the nature of" is always a good thing to have 19:09:31 also I used "skull" in one of the messages, which might be an issue if ever there is a crawl race without skulls 19:10:34 even kittehs do have skulls 19:10:49 if you do go back and alter it, also make sure to correct the misspelling in one of the previous SHT messages: "Your quiver within your mortal coil" 19:10:52 Hello 19:10:53 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:10:55 !messages 19:10:56 (1/1) Mu_ said (54m 51s ago): MalGate portals seem to occasionally stick around forever. 19:11:04 Yes, I've noticed that. 19:11:20 due! 19:11:25 78291 was trying it out on cdo 19:11:26 I'm thinking of extending the map marker to act as a "clean up portals" thing. 19:11:36 Was CDO updated? 19:11:45 the tentacles still have trashy defenses though so the tentacles were getting killed by bees :P 19:11:50 yep 19:11:54 :( bees :( 19:12:11 kilobyte: hi! 19:12:31 it needs updating again though since there are ashenzari altars but no way to gain piety with him :P 19:12:47 due: after the greatness of Wiglaf's speech, perhaps you could take a look at the SHT stuff? That is, if you're not tainted by normalcy. 19:13:00 Mu_: er, altars do spawn? 19:13:07 ghrmblah 19:13:16 not supposed to? :) 19:13:19 kilobyte: My weekend starts TOMORROW! :D 19:13:26 So, sure. 19:13:27 78 worshipped ash for a little bit, and birdoprey found one too 19:13:32 Mu_: not yet 19:14:40 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:04 03dolorous * r5cbc344872e9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/gods.txt: Add spelling fixes. 19:16:06 03dolorous * r7bc72557a667 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Add sacrifice messages for gods missing them (Fedhas, Chei, Ash). 19:18:33 03dolorous * r2e149f75be1f 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Fix compilation. 19:20:02 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:58 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:31:44 03kilobyte * raff4b64883a8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/miscname.txt: Remove a message inappropriate for mummies. 19:31:45 03kilobyte * r309bc9d938c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc religion.cc): Ashenzari: sInv at ***. 19:36:06 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:47 03kilobyte * r7ee6e4c64817 10/crawl-ref/source/terrain.cc: Fix a missing name for altar_ashenzari. 19:39:14 some more of the new sht messages don't work 19:39:16 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:magic:spell:summon_horrible_things 19:39:58 actually I'm not sure if it's possible to get the messages while silenced, but that's a secondary concern when it comes up 19:40:41 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:26 it's not on the list of Xom's spells 19:52:18 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 20:04:43 Undead kraken tentacles can be poisoned (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2690) by OG17 20:15:58 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:15 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:08 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:11 -!- greensnark has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:52 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:51 03dolorous * rf29282c1286a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/miscname.txt: Remove now-inaccurate comments. 20:25:59 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:34 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:52 easy_eat_gourmand setting lets you eat brown chunks without prompt if player is wearing an unidentified amulet of the gourmand (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2691) by multidash 20:36:09 03dolorous * rf967581939b2 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix punctuation. 20:41:35 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:11 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 20:54:47 03dolorous * r26d2701aeaf1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix Mantis 2690: Make fake undead (e.g. kraken zombies) resist poison. 21:00:55 78291 (L17 DEWz) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1117 failed. (Vault:4) 21:02:12 ooooh 21:02:50 I think my feat_is_solid hack is way too hacky, gonna revert it and go for something else instead. 21:06:18 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:09:04 -!- herself has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:05 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:25 due: malign gateway is looking really cool 21:39:27 thanks 21:40:05 I want more smoke though :D in different colors! 21:40:29 Well, we could just make translocational energy different colours. 21:42:00 It would be cool if it used a radiating pattern. 21:42:42 yeah, right now lit looks a little weird with its square smoke pattern that gradually disperses 21:42:50 ideally smoke will billow out of the portal itself 21:42:59 03dolorous * rcb2107efea29 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Add formatting fixes. 21:43:00 but I'm not the one implementing it :P 21:43:01 03dolorous * ra249f7a07d85 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h monster.cc): Since all undead have 1 level of poison resistance, add it by default. 21:43:01 03dolorous * r746253693e16 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Revert the previous fix for Mantis 2690, as it's been improved. 21:43:03 03dolorous * r5c2d615da7b7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Reorganize monster_info resist checks a bit. 21:43:03 03dolorous * rdf632d0a992a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Properly handle hardcoded undead poison resistance in monster_info. 21:43:09 03dolorous * r80f566ff5f08 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Update undead/demonic holiness comments in mon-data.h. 21:43:22 Like a flamethrower? Hm. 21:53:48 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:53:55 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:08 does the portal make noises yet? 21:55:10 because it should 21:55:25 Noises are doable. 22:00:56 elly, galehgar is le registered now. 22:01:03 Erm, galehar, even. 22:01:15 done 22:01:20 danke 22:03:13 gallagher 22:09:58 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:46 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:53 03dolorous * r66a9cddde20b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc monster.cc): Only hardcode 1 level of rPois for undead if they don't have it already. 22:42:53 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 22:53:52 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:37 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:56 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 23:15:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:17 -!- ogaz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]