00:00:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:49 they were at one point in the past 00:00:57 maybe nubina has pickup_thrown off 00:03:11 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:42:32 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:54 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:21 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:17 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45:06 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:43 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:56 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:55 Dancing weapons immune to electricity (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2671) by ledtim 01:54:56 Chain lightning should not prompt when you are near electric immune allies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2672) by ledtim 02:19:56 -!- Moult has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:05 violetj: ping 02:20:59 Violet's not here. 02:21:03 If you need a -dev op, 02:21:04 i am one. 02:22:38 due: well i'm looking for buy some server space to run an ADOM server, and I heard that violetj would be one to talk to 02:23:08 hm 02:23:25 I meant more in terms of asking for sizing/connectivity tips 02:24:48 rax & violetj don't use a VPS, for roguelike server VPS shopping tips Napkin might be better? 02:25:23 what do rax and violetj use? 02:25:25 well, they do, they just also own the physical server 02:26:18 perhaps they rent out some space on it? 02:31:20 last i heard, "only to people they know" and "they're out of space anyway" 02:33:16 ah ok, well i'll have a chat with Napkin and see if he has any recommendations for a cheap vps. Napkin: ping :) 02:37:33 napking <3 02:37:45 Moult: If you check through the channel logs, there was a long conversation regarding VPS servers. 02:39:28 due: log available online? 02:39:34 /topic 02:39:39 "Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl" 02:41:32 Moult: we are, in fact, out of IP addresses 02:43:04 violetj: oh well :( due: how long ago was this? searching for "vps" in them didn't yield anything for the past 1.5 weeks 02:44:02 Definitely longer than nthe past 1.5 weeks, I'm sorry 02:44:08 give me a moment and I'll get a rough date form my own logs 02:44:38 ##crawl-dev.2010-05-11.log:02:28 <+sorear> Napkin: Epyon here needs a few tips on wiki hosting VPSes... CrawlWiki is moving 02:44:42 I think that started the conversation 02:44:46 so check around that date 02:45:28 Has it really only been five months since I was here last? 02:45:43 possibly 02:47:18 due: not in the past month either, it seems 02:47:28 oh right 02:47:43 It feels like a year at least 02:49:36 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?] 02:55:43 due: thanks for the log hint, nice recommendation there 03:22:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:32 -!- monky has quit [Quit: what] 03:36:54 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:01 -!- Moult has left ##crawl-dev 03:46:49 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:21 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:52:03 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:03 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 03:52:03 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:45 kilobyte: Hi! Wrote a lengthy reply on the AC/EV Mantis item. Please get back to me, if you disagree. This point is very important to me. 04:04:45 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:04:49 !message 04:04:50 !messages 04:04:50 (1/1) doy said (9h 56m 4s ago): would really be useful to have your input in #2406, it's getting out of hand i think 04:05:02 doy: just replied 04:05:06 !seen doy 04:05:07 I last saw doy at Sun Oct 3 07:31:20 2010 UTC (1h 33m 47s ago) saying last i heard, "only to people they know" and "theyre out of space anyway" on ##crawl-dev. 04:05:32 Moin moin! 04:05:37 Moin David :) 04:05:55 Hallo! 04:08:31 dpeg: what's your opinion on that ticket in general? 04:08:56 it seems odd to me that ev is being singled out like that when the handling for that is basically equivalent to the handling for ac 04:10:57 doy: I don't really see the problem. 04:11:07 With the current situation, that is. 04:11:15 i don't either 04:11:20 I have played Crawl unspoiled for some time, and never wondered. 04:11:36 I did wonder about the many number displayed for weapons, but armour was always fine with me. 04:12:01 it's not like the numbers make that much of a difference (for minor changes) anyway 04:16:20 yes 04:16:24 hi david, napkin, doy 04:16:34 Hi due! 04:16:44 due! :) 04:16:59 I did reply on my own because kilobyte gave the impression that numbers are always good. 04:17:05 and is it true that sorear was in the hiding for 6 months?! 04:17:11 yes 04:17:13 :( 04:18:06 I think he's back in hiding again. 04:19:22 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:19:56 Napkin: I've never been in hiding per se; my pm-nick and email haven't changed 04:20:12 the moult guy this morning was from tm.net.my - where is that? 04:20:26 malaysia 04:20:26 sorear: Hi! 04:20:27 sorear ;) 04:20:35 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:35 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 04:20:35 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:36 sorear: Great to see you again. 04:21:10 sorear: I've been pushing the summon cap idea whenever the topic came up (which was often recently). 04:23:25 jpeg put auto-travel into NLarn, huh? maybe I can finally play a roguelike other than crawl and not get bored after the 3rd dungeon level? :D 04:24:51 how would you cap it, dpeg? summonging skill n+1? XL? 04:25:05 dpeg: How has Crawl been? 04:25:10 sounds very interesting :) 04:26:03 sorear: doing well, I would say? 04:26:14 Napkin: XL is bad. 27 is way too much :) 04:26:21 true 04:26:34 I am thinking of a flat cap, for example 8. (Eronarn thinks this is too much, he wants 4. Which is too little imo :) 04:26:37 Napkin: there was a cute exchange earlier, Moult: I need to find a VPS, all I have is this laptop in malaysia with abysmal ping to the rest of the first world Creeth: Wait, really? I'm in malaysia and I can't get a good ping to any roguelike server (paraphrased rather; this in a channel of 14 people) 04:26:40 sorear: what would you think? 04:27:01 dpeg: I think a flat cap could work well 04:27:03 hehe, sorear 04:27:19 sorear: yes, thought you'd like that. What number would you start with` 04:27:28 really? non-flat is way cooler in sense of progressing your char 04:27:36 8 is as good a number to start with as any 04:27:59 it's like... \o/ finally i can summon 2! etc.. 04:28:06 Napkin: it progresses because you will want to make those N summons more interesting as you go on, by getting better spells! 04:28:16 hmmhmmhmm.. 04:28:21 It is more indirect, but the progression will bethere. 04:28:39 If the cap goes up, we encourage players to use the same old spells with just more monsters. 04:28:50 Napkin: you have a flat cap on number of conjuration spells per turn (1). I am not ever truly convinced, but I feel that superlinear progress is Bad 04:29:34 maybe do XL-based until 8 is reached? 04:30:00 * Napkin quits his babbling * 04:30:00 Napkin: to be specific: early on, 8 spammals is good. Later on, it's not and you'll use 8 ice beasts or whatever. 04:30:10 you'll find a nice solution - no doubt :) 04:30:19 Napkin: flat cap is also very easy to understand for players. 04:30:23 Napkin: I think we can abuse the mana pool to make that happen. 04:30:27 Napkin: designers at work here :) 04:30:50 exactly why i stop disturbing ;) 04:31:07 sorear: we had a funny incident some days ago with b0rsuk 04:31:18 There is no other kind. 04:31:56 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:rc&rev=1285872415&do=diff 04:32:31 but.. will the same apply to beogh followers? (gee.. i wrote his name wrong, didn't I?) 04:32:44 no, you just forgot to capitalise 04:32:55 i'd actually love to have the amount of orcs limited 04:32:56 Beogh will smite you a bit, that's all :) 04:33:01 :D 04:33:04 !coffee 04:33:04 * Henzell hands Napkin a barrel of cappuccino, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 04:33:21 Napkin: I have this old idea of apostles (orcs which follow you in battle), natural limit being 12 04:33:22 see - i am screwed anyways with that cappuccino ;D 04:33:33 haha, nice 04:33:34 It would be a hot cappuccino 04:34:10 !seen Pacra 04:34:10 I last saw Pacra at Sun Oct 3 05:15:33 2010 UTC (4h 18m 37s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 245 seconds. 04:34:35 but pleeease, let me allow to choose those orcs.. 04:34:41 !tell Pacra If you're interested in that god, please write a mail. I am starting to forget the ideas I had. 04:34:41 dpeg: OK, I'll let Pacra know. 04:34:59 Napkin: why not simply take the best ones? 04:35:25 hmm, ok, would work 04:35:33 with the limit, yes 04:36:45 btw, should I keep squarelos being build (windows builds) and running CDO? 04:37:07 Napkin: I'd say so. 04:37:18 It is absolutely not clear what LOS will be in 0.8, though. 04:37:23 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:29 ok 04:37:33 Might as well let players go at variants. 04:38:06 i think kilobyte was very precise in describing how much he hated it 04:38:15 yes 04:38:22 and there are good reasons for that 04:38:35 but there are also some bits that square LOS does very well 04:38:52 As I said, not clear what 0.8 will look like. 04:39:00 ja 04:39:06 Did you see b0rsuk's attack? 04:39:24 will there be an ARRP release of crawl? 04:39:26 no, tell me 04:39:33 !wtf ARRP 04:39:33 Unemployed Unperson 04:39:53 http://www.roguetemple.com/2010/09/03/an-annual-roguelike-release-party-draws-near/ 04:40:11 ah, not sure we will do stuff like that 04:40:20 Crawl is a very heavy ship 04:40:21 oops, it passed already :D 04:40:30 that too :) 04:41:10 doy: good comment on Haste, I was going to say exactly that but got distracted by other things on the wiki... 04:41:35 Pokemon time, back later 04:41:40 hehe 04:41:42 enjoy! 04:52:07 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 04:54:43 * sorear is now pondering a Crawl variant with no LOS at all 04:56:01 BlindCrawl? 04:59:32 MonkCrawl 05:03:12 omg Giomancer lives! 05:03:25 lies! 05:04:16 I've just been on rgrd 05:05:06 That counts as living? 05:05:12 * due makes "nuh-uh" noise. 05:05:31 It's kinda like living 05:17:38 Mu_: cool ideas for Ash, I like it. 05:18:33 ;p 05:18:46 he has a really cool theme 05:25:51 i think i agree with wm on crd though about how ash views curses 05:26:24 i'll reply something 05:35:22 Just reading the Ashenzari page he seems like a really awesome god :) can't wait for him to be implemented 05:39:56 oh whoops, guess i'm signed up to crd with the wrong email, waiting to be moderated 05:55:39 Mu_: I don't really care about the background. What's important to me is gameplay, and I believe that changign scrolls makes the god smoother. 05:56:46 (Of course, Ashenzari has so much theme that it will be easy to find suitable flavour texts.) 05:58:12 just change the fucking scrolls already 05:58:15 who's still against it? 05:58:57 /o\ 05:59:21 mr. duey please don't delete angels :p 05:59:52 :| 05:59:55 fine I won't 06:00:02 \o/ 06:00:11 due: there is always someone against it :) 06:00:26 dpeg: Are they a developer? 06:00:30 William has a tendency to stir up matters after I starting thinking the air is clean. 06:00:49 William means well, but he is one voice amongst thousands. Ignore him. :) 06:00:51 due: no, but everyone holds William in high esteem because he is Omega. 06:00:58 Omega? 06:00:59 But Omega :) 06:01:08 And you're Alpha. 06:01:13 :) 06:01:13 is he anyone on irc? 06:01:17 no no 06:01:30 someone who reads c-r-d and occasionally comments on matters 06:01:45 means well, but often distracts from progress in a way 06:02:03 So, rename the scrolls 06:02:07 If it causes issues, revert. 06:02:08 Simple. 06:02:12 yes 06:02:16 need a coder first :) 06:02:23 Eh? 06:02:26 Minced seems unwilling or unable to upload his patch :) 06:02:28 Wots this? 06:02:35 nooo, don't rename them :P 06:02:42 Mu_: serious? Why? 06:02:44 * due clears his throat. 06:02:53 Mu_: you agree that changing the functionality is good? 06:03:00 (E.g. ?RC only uncursing one item.) 06:03:16 i think changing the mechanics of how they work is necessary and prolly gonna be very difficult to get right yeah 06:03:26 just leave them called curses :P 06:03:29 Mu_: what's hard to get right? 06:03:41 well how many curse armour/weapon scrolls even generate in a game? 06:03:53 For me? Oodles 06:03:54 Mu_: you think it is best to keep the scroll at "Remove Curse" even if it works differently? 06:04:39 oh don't mind that, mainly just talking about calling them things other than curse (blessing etc) 06:04:44 I did not understand so far what's problematic with renaming. Just don't get it. 06:05:20 Mu_: my idea is that players (rightfully) associated "cursed" with bad, whereas that's wrong for Ash. 06:05:49 Of course, they will learn about that either way, but it'd be easier if the scrolls already tell them. Likewise, item colours should be different in order to indicate this. 06:06:04 yeah item colours would be enough 06:06:10 disagree here 06:06:11 i mean they're still bad you can't get the items off :P 06:06:29 function change + useful curses ==> new terminology is better 06:06:35 I agree with dpeg here. 06:06:39 Mu_: but they're not curses anymore 06:06:44 * due gags Mu_ and stuffs him into cerebov's loot room. 06:07:05 * Giomancer is readind c-r-d 06:07:23 I should find some wiki page about an Asian religion which tells you that restricting freedom is the way to power. 06:07:30 the god gives you the bonuses for the curses, the curse just stops you removing the item 06:07:35 or to progress 06:08:18 Mu_: as I said, it would also work without renaming, but what's wrong with the renaming it? Wouldn't it add a lot of flavour? 06:08:40 well i posted on crd about my interpretation of theme, post is waiting to be moderated though 06:08:41 Well, not a lot, but a bit of flavour. I prefer the renaming. 06:12:16 i don't see how it's clearer for the player that the scrolls and items will now refer to blessing and yet you end up with items that behave the same as cursed ones? 06:14:46 the player already has an expectation of what curse means, you can clarify that it has ancillary benefits for ashenzari followers in the god screen. 06:16:22 it is slightly interface fucking 06:16:35 But I don't think it's that large a difference 06:16:50 "Your eyes are opened to the true meaning of cursed items." 06:18:25 well if curses are still ~bad things~ that ash just happens to support the use of, you can tie in a bunch of abilities that refer to hexing and cursing enemies passively, but if curses have to exist in this ambiguous state where they're bad but also kind of good and also called blessings you have this really watery theme that you can't go anywhere with 06:18:51 Guess we won't reach concensus here. 06:19:16 Hm. 06:19:37 anywa 06:19:41 at the end of the day i just make vaults i will shut up if you want :P just liked the theme so i thought i'd say how i saw it 06:19:41 A surprisingly contentious issue 06:22:42 I believe the god will rock gameplay-wise (especially for stabbers who don't have a diety right now). 06:23:31 The curses mechanics should be interesting, regardless of how things are called. I do not really care that much about the sugar coating, mostly wondering about the resistance _flavour_ (as opposed to gameplay) always gets. 06:24:53 I guess my approach is "this god regards curses as beneficial, so we should stretch flavour as much as possible within this framework". Where William or Mu_ probably would say "we should stay as close to the standard interface as possible." 06:25:27 * Giomancer pokes due 06:26:25 But I still believe that having scrolls of Remove Curse, Curse Foo working a little different but being called the same will cause a regular influx of bug reports, whereas renaming everything will cause the occasional "what the fuck?!" reports but no bug reports. 06:27:11 The really bad thing is that I should repeat all this reasoning on c-r-d and on the wiki as well. 06:27:17 * dpeg can't be arsed. 06:28:04 food intake over here 06:29:31 you can just add a god message when you read the scrolls :p 06:31:37 eh i stuck my curse interpretation on the wiki, i'll leave it at that 06:41:49 due do you have time these days to do vault lua for me :P i had an idea for an ozocubu wizlab, if you aren't still working on that one 06:43:02 What is "p<-->aP"? 06:46:47 dpeg: Giomancer has volunteered to code p<-->aP. 06:46:57 Huh? 06:47:08 I don't even know what it *is*! 06:47:08 Nothing. 06:47:10 o:) 06:47:16 Bad due! 06:47:22 * Giomancer slaps due with a 4r8a9i11n13b17o26w trout 06:47:50 I am trying to find my way around Mantis, though 06:52:16 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:27 I just won my first game. I never need to play crawl again 06:54:18 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:54:51 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:23 hehe, congratulations, bmh :) 06:56:36 how do I ask the bots for the dump? 06:57:49 !lg bmh 06:57:50 645. bh the Blademaster (L23 SpCK), worshipper of Lugonu, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-10-03, with 1359857 points after 151888 turns and 12:39:57. 06:57:53 !lg bmh -log 06:57:53 645. bh, XL23 SpCK, T:151888: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/bh/morgue-bh-20101003-114805.txt 07:00:10 well, I'm out 07:00:11 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 07:00:45 * due bed. 07:02:38 Oh! 07:02:52 The prayer interface? 07:07:08 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:41 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:33 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:33:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:50 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:07:21 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:56 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:51 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:21 dpeg: responded to that mantis item about hiding numbers 08:40:31 dpeg: I disagree merely with hiding _base_ numbers, like the base +AC -EV of armour. Showing every single derived number like the effect on dodging, weapon speed, weapon accuracy, spellcasting, stealth would indeed be information overload. 09:29:39 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Some folks are wise, and some otherwise.] 09:36:53 back 09:37:34 !tell bmh Will you still do the wraths? 09:37:34 dpeg: OK, I'll let bmh know. 09:37:52 kilobyte: oh, I agree with that. 09:42:11 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:48 !tell due You want to hand over the 'p' <--> 'aP' task? That's okay, I'd just adjust the Mantis comment, so that the Implementable looks free again. 09:50:48 dpeg: OK, I'll let due know. 09:54:54 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:54 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 09:54:54 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:28 dpeg: silent spectres are very very broken 09:55:29 bmh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:55:37 !messages 09:55:37 (1/1) dpeg said (18m 3s ago): Will you still do the wraths? 09:56:09 dpeg: yes, I will do the wraths 09:58:17 bmh: :) 09:58:20 Also, congrats! 09:59:03 bmh: Your threat seemed universal: "Don't want to play this game if I lose this guy. Don't have to play this game anymore if I win this guy." But this might be just an addictive reassuring himself. :) 09:59:04 Spectres are absurdly broken. I lured one to Elf:7 09:59:20 bmh: from where? 09:59:25 Yeah... 09:59:33 Crypt 09:59:44 god Yrdy? 09:59:51 Lugonu 10:00:16 Ah, the spectre was obtained as a spectral Crypt monster? 10:00:33 * dpeg ponders whether spectral monsters should be confined to the branch they belong to, 10:00:45 Yes. I would suggest prohibiting interlevel travel 10:01:02 and there is also https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:summoning:feedback&s[]=summon#dpeg 10:01:16 bmh: ah, you would confine them to the _level_? 10:01:24 I mean, I cleared out elf:4-6 and part of tomb with the spectre 10:01:43 Not to mention that crypt was a joke 10:01:44 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:01 good points, will add these ideas so some place 10:02:11 due, Napkin: please update windows builds 10:02:35 How's the spell officially called? 10:03:11 Zot was a lot easier than I expected 10:03:19 bmh: you cleared it? 10:03:39 No. I ran and teleported 10:03:44 spell name, please? 10:03:55 Which spell? 10:04:00 @?? silent spectre 10:04:00 silent spectre (10p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-60 | AC/EV: 5/15 | Damage: 15 | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 03poison | XP: 313. 10:04:19 the issue was pointed out within hours of the implementation and kilobyte is aware of it 10:04:42 bmh: how did you get the tame spectre? 10:04:56 I didn't. It was hostile 10:05:00 ah 10:05:18 My EV was around 47 so it couldn't hurt me 10:06:21 !tell kilobyte Brendan's been abusing a hostile silent spectre, luring it from Crypt to Elf. Do you have ideas for how to balance it? Ideas we had: confine to level. Confine to branch. 10:06:21 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 10:07:02 Brb 10:08:22 It'd still pretty much trivialize any liches, vampire types, necromancers, and spellcasting uniques if spawned on the same level 10:10:28 (I take it dpeg is still ignoring me :[) 10:17:30 Oh, duh there's a fix 10:17:46 Silence shouldn't be centered on the spectre 10:17:58 Make it 3x3 and put it on the player 10:18:25 and make spellcasters flee from silence? 10:18:26 Brb again 10:18:30 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:18:38 That's not how I imagine the spectre to work though. 10:19:05 but it might be what is needed 10:19:22 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:09 3x3 "spotlight" silence would be much more horrifying than the current spectre behavior 10:21:18 3x3 without fleeing spellcasters would mean it's still possible to silence a few in combat (like Crypt liches), though it would be far less abusable if taken to places like Elf or Tomb (if that is left in) 10:21:23 will do, ortoslon 10:22:04 bmh: yes, the problem is that the spectre is then also much easier to kill for casters 10:22:14 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:18 Therefore: 3x3 silencing range + jumping? 10:22:30 or plain magic immunity 10:22:34 3x3 smite-targeted silence that follows the player 10:22:40 ah 10:24:34 it would make spectres *actually* horrifying 10:25:24 but it would also make their feature to look like a spell :) 10:25:32 (which we may have to accept) 10:25:57 how about a "line of silence" 10:26:04 cool, too 10:26:17 er, "beam of silence" -- like shining a silence'y flashlight at the player 10:30:12 dpeg: confining to level would be the easy way -- and thematic too, since they can be argued to be related kind of undead to player ghosts 10:30:12 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:30:33 dpeg: however, there's still the issue of them spawning on the same level as a lich vault 10:30:58 and any other level with spellcasters, like out of depth liches, vampire knights, necromancers, and uniques 10:31:48 kilobyte: yes, agree 10:32:02 bmh: that's a GREAT idea, however, have you seen how angular light looks in squarelos? It's so abysmal it'd make that spell/ability a total no-do. 10:32:15 oh. drat. 10:32:21 I just (yesterday) played gruesome 10:32:28 have you seen it? 10:32:29 gruesome? 10:32:31 no 10:33:04 the version you can download is bad -- your character is a ' ' (UI-based difficulty) and it wastes 100% CPU 10:33:35 Btw, it would also be okay if the presence of a silencing spectre anywhere in LOS makes you silent but nothing else (i.e. bhm's idea with 1x1). 10:33:49 you may want to install fpc (it's in Pascal) and try it with my patches: http://angband.pl/git/gruesome 10:34:24 What is it? 10:35:07 a roguelike where you sneak up on adventurers to eat them 10:35:28 each of them has a light source that shines only forward 10:35:35 Ah; I recall mention of it from rgrm. 10:35:44 hah 10:35:45 oh. Grue'some 10:35:50 light kills you instantly 10:36:42 I love the idea so much I've been thinking about adding such a monster to Crawl 10:36:47 kilobyte: :) 10:37:00 not instadeath, I hope 10:37:04 cool idea otherwise 10:37:04 it'd do something bad to you if you're shined on, yeah 10:37:29 ranged combat would make it too easy, though 10:38:04 ofc, we have facing in Crawl, but we don't want to have players press up, down, left, right every few turns 10:38:13 I believe the idea can be still used, though. 10:38:25 so it'd either need some way to be immune or resistant to ranged attacks (perhaps with a tloc theme?) or just very hp-ful but instakillable in melee 10:38:55 kilobyte: What do you think of making distort *help* ugly things? 10:38:58 dpeg: for players and monsters, we assume you can turn your head in a split second 10:39:33 You remember the sneaking monsters we discussed some time ago? This could be a candidate. 10:39:41 bmh: good idea 10:39:49 I meant a theme of making them bend space somehow -- and the "light" would be some distortious aura 10:39:58 I still want ugly things as a playable race 10:40:07 bmh: ah, you meant ugly things we already have 10:40:52 kilobyte: re distort, the idea is that the brand should be bad against something, to create more choices. Blink frogs already have this (distort heals them) but we could have more. 10:42:52 tiles build done, ortoslon 10:43:42 -!- ortoslon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:42 -!- ortoslon has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:43:43 -!- ortoslon1 is now known as ortoslon 10:43:49 tiles build done, ortoslon 10:44:04 thanks 10:44:04 or, another idea: a "XXX lantern", a construct monster that moves erratically and is deaf (so dwarves can spean up on it caring only for the "light"), the "light" is strongly mutagenic, but you can close the lantern's flap if you touch it 10:44:58 Do we have any "dark" levels? Explorable (not like the Abyss), but with reduced LOS 10:45:17 we don't 10:46:15 hrm... there's an idea. We could have a "deep woods" in the forest branch 10:46:29 ooh yeah 10:46:38 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 10:46:43 I like that idea 10:47:00 kilobyte: cool idea (lantern), I like it! 10:47:15 There could be lanterns of XXX, with XXX being chosen from a list. 10:47:24 bmh: currently, all branches have constant rules on all levels: like, hell has its effects depending on whether you're in the branch or not 10:47:42 I always suggested to use different LOS ranges for a few branches. 10:47:42 but having every level have a separate rule could be cool 10:48:02 huh... what if forest branched rather than going deep? 10:48:21 Make the branch be a bona fide tree rather than a linked list 10:49:01 nifty idea, but not sure it's worth it :) 10:49:03 dpeg: we didn't do that before since the LOS range code was pretty fragile, but as it's now recalculated instead of added/subtracted to, it should be easy to code 10:49:09 kilobyte: yes 10:50:52 nightstalker 3 + lantern of shadows are already -6 LOS, so anything further would have to be multiplicative rather than additive 10:50:56 Windows Development Builds at Revision: 0.8.0-a0-1528-g351afcf 10:51:10 (SquareLOS branch) 10:51:24 like, halving what is left 10:51:50 kilobyte: nightstalker should be reduced a bit 10:52:01 eg 1,2,3 instead of 2,4,6 10:52:07 so normally it would be 8 -> 4, ns3+lantern 2 -> 1 10:52:25 dpeg: it's 0,2,4 10:52:33 but it's cumulative with the lantern 10:52:38 ok 10:53:07 I'm screwing around in Forest in winzmode in trunk -- is anything actually implemented? 10:54:01 bmh: nothing you can't spawn in other branches 10:54:20 bmh: all actual code (as opposed to just design) is in monsters 10:57:54 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away 11:00:53 03raphael.langella * raf57ca8aa896 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Forget spell from book 11:02:00 kilobyte: thank you, Adam. 11:02:05 It will be good, trust me. 11:04:21 kilobyte: renaming AV/EVP can be done right away, if you wish. 11:07:28 do we show that anywhere but an item's description? 11:07:41 has orb of mana been changed recently? 11:08:46 ortoslon: yeah, pretty tremendously nerfed 11:09:37 it can take 2/3 of your max int instead of just 1, it can confuse or paralyse you 11:10:17 great (i was relaying a question from my friend who has an omnipotent demigod conjurator in an earlier alpha) 11:13:46 Napkin, dpeg: looking through my old files, I found a DHTML terminal I wrote one day. While by itself it's of little use, libtty can turn vt100-compatible output like Crawl produces into something that can be fed to that thing -- all we'd have to code is communication between the client and Crawl. 11:14:05 are we interested in a browser console interface? 11:16:16 kilobyte: don't think so 11:16:40 sure, why not 11:16:47 would be cool 11:16:52 kilobyte: same 11:16:54 -!- bmh_away is now known as bmh 11:17:37 kilobyte: how hairy is the tiles code? I was wondering about the possibility of including procedurally generated textures. 11:19:04 bmh: it would be easy to do that at build time, hard during the actual game 11:19:28 kilobyte: You mean render new tiles at build? 11:19:38 yeah 11:20:02 That's too bad. I think we could do plenty of very neat things 11:20:32 the tiles code assumes it can store everything as one big texture and then just tell OpenGL to use regions of that texture 11:21:19 it often composes tiles by drawing such fragments one atop another 11:21:20 hrm... if that's the case it seems like you could go procedural sort of easily 11:21:44 replace the texture lookup with a call to the procedural function of choice 11:26:12 dpeg: after playing nightstalker, i think we should seriously consider removing it 11:26:27 Eronarn: nightstalker? 11:26:37 bmh: the DS los reduction mutation 11:26:39 ??nightstalker 11:26:39 nightstalker[1/2]: +40/80/120 stealth -0/2/4 LOS ; Available in .7 line only. Remember, LOS is reciprocal, so when your LOS is reduced, so is the LOS of everything else in the dungeon. 11:26:50 ??nightstalker[2] 11:26:50 nightstalker[2/2]: The original ring name of Bryan Clarke, also known as Wrath, Adam Bomb, and Unibomb. 11:27:05 Eronarn: Is it broken or lame or annoying? 11:27:19 bmh: all of the above, at various points 11:27:29 sometimes, it gives unfair advantage to the player - can fire outside LOS 11:27:46 sometimes, it means you stumble onto creatures and are only 4 tiles away from them instead of 8 11:27:57 Eronarn: I don't take comments with "seriously" in them seriously. 11:28:12 sometimes, it makes vaults no longer work the way they were intended, because you don't have the same LOS the creator assumed 11:28:38 It is a game-changing mutation putting emphasis on melee and stabbing. 11:28:45 I would not want to throw it away on a whim. 11:30:27 dpeg: what about the lantern of shadows on a ns3 character? 11:30:41 LOS range of 2 is sort of extreme 11:30:51 kilobyte: we could simply declare there's a minimum LOS range 11:30:58 so that the lamp wouldn't change anything 11:32:06 dpeg: i think the effects of the change are, more or less, too game-changing in too many ways for an always-on effect; if it were something like a god power where it scaled with piety (so no fast changes in LOS, but slow ones are okay) it might be better but it's just so different otherwise that it is somewhat unpleasant 11:33:03 Eronarn: you are the one who's always big on epic proposals, but also quick to deny ideas of others- 11:33:15 Nightstalker is a great idea with a lot of potential. We will give it time to ripe. 11:34:03 dpeg: um, from the wiki 11:34:05 facet of shadow mastery: only general ideas here. Some reduction or increase of LOS (lantern of shadows / peering into the shadows… better). Possibly some of the activity-based stealth bonuses that have been proposed: like hiding near a wall. 11:34:37 which page? 11:34:43 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demonspawn_brainstorming&s[]=nightstalker 11:34:48 under '(Eronarn)' :P 11:35:11 i thought it was a good idea when i first had it, but now that i've actually played with it, i don't think it is 11:35:25 Eronarn: be aware that having very many, very long ideas detracts from every individual one. Someone's got to read all the stuff. I wasn't aware of that idea. 11:35:54 dpeg: We should probably talk about this on the wiki, but for the wrath overhaul: I believe that wrath functions should take two arguments: tension and severity. Anything else? 11:35:54 that's fine, i am just saying it's not true that i'm just against this because it's not my idea 11:36:37 bmh: as I said, not all should use tension. But otherwise, yes. 11:36:52 dpeg: Then that wrath implementation can discard it 11:37:01 bmh: yes 11:37:21 Eronarn: I have players dismiss new content all the time. But often, it can be repaired and need not be trashed. 11:38:06 sure, it's not critical that we fix it now or anything, it only affects one race some of the time 11:38:12 Combining NS and LoS may be too awkward -- if so, we can modify the rules here. 11:38:49 surprised nobody wrote anything about nightstalker on the feedback page 11:39:10 Eronarn: I really that DS can be mutated in several different aspects. A stabber-like facet (which is much more than just boring Stealth boosts) is very interesting. 11:39:26 yes, agreed 11:40:02 does squarelos + nightstalker + lantern currently produce LoS of 1 ? :P 11:40:40 dpeg: my thought for non-stealth-boost NS is something like: you can take on a shadow form, where you walk along (but not through) walls. totally invulnerable, but the only action you can take is movement. 11:40:44 needs fleshing out, obviously 11:41:08 but active powers are less cool then passive ones, generally speaking 11:41:36 idea is interesting, and could be made passive 11:42:05 it could be made semi-passive by letting you just walk into wall tiles, rather than use an activated ability 11:42:29 The other problem with NS is finding Abyss exits. I wouldn't mind seeing them like normal (or all portals for that matter). Suppose they glow like crazy, or something. 11:42:46 Eronarn: yes. If we want to make it harder, that process could take some time or so. 11:43:04 I assume you could still be hit? 11:43:31 i was thinking we could use whatever affects rock worms as a guide 11:43:31 -!- bmh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:49 i believe they're immune to most targeted damage, but can still be hit by things like confuse 11:43:52 or torment 11:44:08 Eronarn: then it'd be too easy from the perils of melee combat 11:44:17 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:43 well, if you could stay in the wall, yes - but if it has, say, an MP drain maybe not so much 11:44:48 nightstalker seems strangely out of place with the other mutations at least, for example with having a major downside 11:45:34 one other caveat that could be added to such an effect could be, you can only merge into a wall while you're not being watched 11:45:44 i guess body slot is similar though 11:45:52 upsy: all DS lose a body slot though 11:45:58 it's closest to monstrous 11:46:10 which is a drawback for some (many, likely) DS 11:46:13 yes 11:46:14 just discovered an advantage of 7-tile square LOS: message area on a 1024x600 netbook screen doesn't overlap with main view anymore 11:46:24 upsy: the body forms also have downsides 11:46:24 ??monstrous 11:46:24 monstrous[1/2]: Psuedo-predefined mutation set guaranteeing 3 {body slot facet}s and 5 other regular ds mutations ; 1 / 10 chance; gives "You feel monstrous as your demonic heritage exerts itself." message when you gain your first {body slot facet}. 11:47:00 dpeg: that's what "body slot" was meant to mean 11:47:21 yes, sorry, was too late 11:47:33 i actually wouldn't mind if one of the other DS muts, beyond the body slot one, were guaranteed to be one with a drawback 11:47:48 upsy: I actually like this: DS is about being flexible. Mutations like NS are good in this regard, not bad. 11:47:54 Eronarn: yes 11:48:14 like maybe one set of scales could grant a level of slow movement at max 11:48:20 ouch :) 11:48:29 dpeg: what do you mean? doesn't DS remove some flexibility for that character? 11:48:31 yep, LoS of 1 :P 11:48:32 but that's a good ouch :) 11:48:33 ortoslon: tiles, I guess? Then please report the bug. 11:48:36 been thinking of "fast but frail", for example 11:48:39 er, NS, not DS 11:48:48 dpeg: or the one you had wanted previously, hooves + fast 11:49:03 Eronarn: might be not enough of a drawback 11:49:05 that would've been a bad idea if it came with any hooves 3, but if it were an additional hooves 3 and you had lost another body slot too 11:49:23 then it would be a lot more reasonable 11:49:49 upsy: I mean the _player_'s flexibitily 11:49:55 screw spelling 11:50:56 also, is there any chance of DS losing the breath muts? there are some problems with these - a) there are only two of them b) one is way, way better than the other c) no demons even have breath weapons d) but other crawl races do, and in fact this is a major selling point of them, yet DS get that as well as other stuff 11:51:20 (ok, i guess the SoH has a breath weapon, but that's a little different) 11:51:46 Eronarn: sure, good points 11:51:49 is green deaths' poisonous cloud breath? 11:51:59 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:05 hm... it might be a cloud breath 11:52:08 it's not poison spit though 11:52:11 @??green death 11:52:11 Green Death (031) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 53-87 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 32 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(156), 03poison | XP: 1834 | Sp: poison arrow (3d20), poisonous cloud (3d9), b.venom (3d18), call imp, blink. 11:52:21 @??swamp dragon 11:52:22 swamp dragon (07D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 53-83 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Damage: 18, 9, 9 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(36), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison+contam | XP: 682 | Sp: poisonous cloud (3d7). 11:52:25 Many good ideas today on this channel (grue, silent spectre, DS wall walking, probably more)... wiki or they die! 11:53:17 dpeg, writing email ;] 11:53:26 Blossom in Wiki or Rot in Chatlogs! 11:53:47 Pacra: cool! 11:53:53 ortoslon: +1 11:54:45 I am serious. We all think that someone else gotta file it. But if you would really like to see some idea in the game at some point (especially one that was approved of by somebody), make that comment on the wiki. The first version can be sloppy. 11:56:46 adding the DS logs there, for now 11:57:25 what's the best way to contact jpeg about coding for xom? 11:57:35 the wiki says to but it doesn't say how 11:58:07 ./join ##xom-dev 11:58:08 ;) 11:58:12 ??jpeg 11:58:12 jpeg[1/1]: Image format or crawl developer? You be the judge. 11:58:25 well that's not helpful 11:58:32 yeah :| 11:59:03 could try the mailing list 12:00:19 valrus: email 12:00:22 03kilobyte * r4076e3512f08 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc stuff.cc): Make silent spectres unable to use stairs. 12:00:27 valrus: write to me, I can relay 12:00:54 kilobyte: good one 12:01:26 i'm not a fan of the unable-to-use-stairs, by the way, since it's an exception just for them - i think if possible we should find some way to strongly discourage leaving them in LOS, for all characters 12:01:28 dpeg: the other ideas are worth investigating, especially for the lich vault case, but I plugged the worst abuse for now 12:02:35 Eronarn: many undead types have that: all zombies, most skeletons (save for intelligent ones: skeletal warriors and liches), player ghosts 12:02:43 all p could have it 12:02:45 that's true, i forgot about player ghosts 12:02:55 i was thinking it was just the unintelligent Zs 12:03:28 upsy: it would be a bit of 'is haunting this level' flavor. 12:03:33 kilobyte: agreed. Abuse clamped for now, everything else to be discussed for later. 12:03:35 being unable to use stairs is trendy among the undead 12:03:56 upsy: +1 12:04:02 Zaba: :) 12:04:07 but I agree, all p could have it 12:04:15 "We're so cool and undead, we can give a fuck about those staircases." 12:04:48 "stairs are for people who need to look for food. losers." 12:04:48 dpeg, "Other levels? What other levels? All the unfun is happening to the unlife 'round this one!" 12:05:02 Zaba: :) 12:05:26 ghost (dummy), phantom, hungry ghost, flayed ghost, player ghost, player illusion, shadow, silent spectre, spirit 12:05:46 kilobyte: what do you think of promoting all 'p' to stairless? 12:05:47 valrus: <3 12:06:01 Might look a little more consistent, for consolers at least. 12:06:02 this is a good time to think of the W vs. p issue, also 12:06:05 stairlessness seems fitting for all the sub-types of 'ghost', at least, since player ghost is already like that 12:06:05 not sure about the relation to wraiths 12:07:02 perhaps we could make 'p' be for undead spirits that haunt a place, and 'W' be for spirits that hunt for victims 12:07:28 is 'wraith' a synonym to 'ghost'? 12:07:34 or is there some subtle difference? 12:07:37 in real life, yes 12:07:39 (outside the context of crawl) 12:07:44 D&D-wise, they're different 12:07:50 and ours are D&D-ized 12:07:51 outside the context of D&D, too 12:08:03 grrrr 12:08:04 ??lair 12:08:06 lair[1/3]: Accessed from the main dungeon somewhere between levels 8 and 13. Eight levels deep. The lair is full of "natural" critters such as rats, snakes, and yaks. Two of the Swamp, Shoals and Snake Pit appear there, as well as Slime, and there is a relatively hard vault on Lair:8. The petting zoo of Crawl, if petting zoos had hydras. 12:08:08 'W': wraith, shadow wraith, freezing wraith, greater wraith (blue_anna), phantasmal warrior 12:08:36 !seen blue_anna 12:08:36 I last saw blue_anna at Thu Sep 23 23:51:01 2010 UTC (1w 2d 17h 17m 35s ago) quitting with message Quit: Saliendo. 12:08:51 Eronarn: you know you just invoked the secret way to make it happen :p 12:08:53 so basically, it could've been shadow ghost, freezing ghost and greater ghost, if only that sounded better 12:08:54 suggestion: greater wraith => eidolon 12:08:58 such a bad name :P 12:09:10 isn't that a kind of duck 12:09:10 Zaba: sure 12:09:23 (and if it wasn't clashing with 'shadow'...) 12:09:34 though as i noted, ours are D&D-ized. as are our shadows 12:09:53 although.. 'shadow' and 'shadow wraith' are already bad. Good thing they're different glyphs, though. 12:10:16 eidolon is good 12:10:31 upsy: is it pre-D&D? 12:10:49 if there will be glyph changes for p and W monsters, something'd have to be done about shaodw and shadow wraith both being so shady 12:10:49 i don't know 12:10:51 yes; there is a D&D monster named that but it's totally unrelated 12:11:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidolon_(astral_double) 12:11:50 Greek is good. 12:12:10 +1 Eidolon! :) 12:12:31 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:40 Zaba: i think shadow should probably stay the same, since they're called by miscasts and lantern of shadows 12:12:50 Eronarn, yeah, I am fine with shadow, too 12:12:51 shadow wraith could totally change in name if needed 12:13:53 shadow wraith is consistent with the invisible shadow demon, so they should both change at once, imo 12:14:09 and on the other hand, it's not consistent at all with shadow imp :D 12:14:10 * dpeg is writing a review. You folks come up with a comprehensive proposal, okay? New names and glyphs! Okthxbye. 12:14:13 Zaba: "wraith" and "ghost" are pretty much synonyms 12:14:36 (or shadow fiend, or shadow dragon, for that matter) 12:15:04 yeah 12:15:06 kilobyte, that indeed makes the separation between W and p look kind of pointless... 12:15:25 I've never understood W/p separation 12:15:29 Zaba: well, we can use the term differently, even if it means similar things 12:15:44 we say, 'by wraith we mean this type of spirit, and by ghost we mean this other type' 12:15:57 well, then there should be clear separation between the two types 12:16:01 yes 12:16:23 anything to make them more interesting is nice 12:16:25 the not using stairs is an interesting one, i think 12:16:25 imo 12:16:40 monky: thought: shadow wraiths are some kind of terrifying to behold creature 12:16:43 but invisible 12:16:44 something should make them different. Interesting comes after that :P 12:16:56 if you can see them, you suffer some kind of penalty 12:17:02 if you can't, you have to fight it invisibly 12:18:11 Zaba: I'm working on the basis that they aren't interesting if they aren't different 12:19:06 one difficulty - silent spectre = p, spectral (foo) = W? 12:19:28 yes.. that's one thing that bothers me, too 12:20:22 mechanically i associate W with draining attacks and p not 12:20:39 so there are spectres, wraiths and ghsots. 12:20:40 ghosts* 12:21:29 Mu_: what about freezing wraiths 12:22:14 I think of wraiths as only vaguely humanoid things in tattered robes with big cowls in which nothing can be seen, usually holding long swords, fwiw 12:22:24 if we make p = spectre/ghost (and no stairs), W = wraith/shadow (and stairs)? 12:22:26 whereas ghosts are just translucent people, more or less 12:22:51 And wights are like corporeal wraiths 12:23:06 monky: they drain my potion stacks 12:23:09 that also works. p's can be full of anguish, etc. and remain in their old form 12:23:34 then again, we're left with abilities that let you make spectral (foo) 12:23:36 which follow you down stairs 12:24:24 i really like shadow wraiths for some reason, they're one of my favourite enemies :P 12:24:43 a magenta W is about as evil as it gets 12:24:49 hm, we could make those apparitions 12:24:58 'an apparition of a 7-headed hydra' 12:24:58 the fact that they are W makes them more sinister to me 12:26:23 Eronarn, as if having ghosts, wraiths and spectres is not confusing enough :P I think we can do without apparitions :P 12:27:02 Zaba: problem is that they're basically enslaved ghosts, yet still able to use the stairs 12:27:21 it makes having a consistent naming/glyph scheme difficult 12:28:03 yes, and what I'm saying is that introducing yet another synonym of 'ghost' is not likely to make it easier :P 12:29:54 well, i'm not sure we could make it work with what we have 12:29:59 can't use spectral or ghost cleanly 12:30:01 wraith sounds bad 12:31:35 hm 12:44:42 stairs idea is good 12:46:02 somebody mentioned haunting the level vs. looking for people to kill. I like that idea. 12:46:38 I mean, I like the idea of separation of them by that. Although I am not sure how much that is of a difference to warrant different glyphs... 12:46:47 rest of the discussion is sort of silly, crawl can use names however it wants to in its own context 12:47:37 yes, but it'd be good if it was, while consistent, not completely unrelated to reality :P 12:47:41 it'd be plenty, wraiths already have distinct (if mild) differences 12:47:47 reality of ghosts 12:50:12 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:16 how big are levels? 12:53:35 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:25 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:11 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:21 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 13:12:25 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:44 hey Neunon 13:14:30 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 13:18:28 Haste spell description should mention it doubles action speed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2673) by hayenne 13:24:38 slightly back 13:25:05 Did you come up with something regarding ghosts, eidolon etc? 13:28:42 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:45 hey, I am too late it seems 13:28:47 Wensley: Hi! 13:28:54 hello! 13:29:24 I have been inordinately busy setting up halloween decorations for my mother this past weekend. she was born on halloween, so it is kind of a big deal 13:33:43 nothing wrong with that 13:33:47 so I have heard there is a development mailing list. where does one sign up for this? 13:33:50 trick or treat, I guess 13:34:07 not so sure, but it should be possible on SF 13:34:17 You know the Sourceforge Crawl page? 13:35:17 no, and I'm not seeing a link to it anywhere 13:38:26 damn, anybody else knows how to do it? 13:39:43 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss you mean this thing 13:39:43 -!- bmh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:49 google found a sourceforge entry for "dungeon crawl reference" and I'm on the mailing list page now. is the mailing list called "crawl-ref-discuss"? 13:41:32 yes! 13:41:56 Wensley: did you get recent (last week) mails about "0.8 agenda" and "Ashenzari"? 13:43:32 not that I know of. I can see an entry for "ashenzari" on this mailing list sourceforge page, though. and I don't see a link anywhere that would add me to the mailing list. 13:43:44 can you link the SF page for me? 13:43:50 Always a hassle to get there. 13:43:57 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss has a signup thing 13:44:00 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=crawl-ref-discuss 13:44:05 oh okay, thanks 13:44:12 found it? 13:46:44 yup, all signed up :) 13:50:12 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:31 cool 13:56:24 Wensley: if everything works, you should get your first c-r-d mail right now. 13:57:05 cool, I'll check my email. currently reading through the current 0.8/ashenzari discussion 13:59:20 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:10 ah, excellent. mail received 14:16:44 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:47 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:39 03dolorous * rff1a671da03d 10/crawl-ref/source/kills.cc: Fix base names for hell demons. 14:21:29 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:02 hi 14:35:25 03dolorous * r67979b2b0ab6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Fix god setting for Nergalle's spectral orcs. 14:41:17 -!- bmh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:04 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:08:37 the ghost stuff from before is on the wiki, https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:glyphs#p_and_w 15:09:14 OG17: thank you! 15:09:19 That's very good. 15:13:02 i was thinking about adding it but didn't know where it would fit 15:15:20 not sure if that's the best place either, but it works 15:16:15 don't worry about that too much 15:16:18 just add it somewhere 15:16:27 a new page is often good 15:16:31 yeah, there's a functionality change (using stairs), but that's not the end of the world 15:17:17 03dolorous * r2967dafdf91e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Add formatting fixes. 15:17:18 03dolorous * rbbaaaa808d62 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Rename Nergalle's non-base spectral orcs instead of setting base type. 15:24:09 is it possible to give a monster attack two brands without making a new attack? 15:24:18 ie give freezing wraith freezing/draining 15:27:20 no 15:27:29 @??freezing wraith 15:27:29 freezing wraith (12W) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-60 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 1912(cold:8-23) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 139. 15:35:54 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:55:49 kirke can't transform you into a pig if you're swimming in deep water (as a merfolk, or an ice beast) 15:55:55 bug or design? 15:56:22 neither 15:56:24 galehar: hi! 15:56:29 hi 15:56:35 workaround, to avoid instakills 15:56:38 Don't want instadeaths from Kirking. 15:57:04 well, if you're flying above deep water as a dragon, she will pig you to death 15:57:20 ah 15:57:38 Not good. Consistency and no-instadeaths should prevent that too. 15:58:02 so, the dragon instadeath should be fixed then 15:58:37 yes, I think that's best 15:58:51 imo there should be airborne/aquatic pig variants 15:58:56 galehar: you seem to be looking into transformations on a systematic basis? 15:59:20 well, I'm trying to fix a few merfolk/transformation bugs 15:59:31 yes, saw that on Mantis :) 16:00:10 i've got something nice, I'll release soon 16:00:32 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 16:01:11 galehar: surprise? 16:01:58 well, it's moslty bugfixing 16:02:14 but there is a new feature: merfolk tail + blade hands :) 16:02:26 nice :) 16:03:07 also, some cleaner code, which should ease adding new flying/swimming forms 16:03:25 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 16:03:50 we have two fliers now, right? (bat, dragon) 16:03:55 and one swimmer 16:04:00 yep 16:04:25 dragon is level 698467439 though, and bat is card/vampire only 16:04:40 you can get dragon form from xom 16:04:48 so there's no transform to cross lava for most chars 16:04:58 right, and xom 16:05:38 kilobyte: sorry i was a bit busy previously - are you interested in this client/server term stuff for the browser? 16:07:22 Yes, I agree that more forms would be interesting. 16:07:31 Need to be careful what we wish for, but good ideas will come. 16:08:04 there are plenty of ideas on the wiki 16:09:47 I'm going to put this on the wiki sooner or later, but is there any reason undead template monsters couldn't use reverse-branded colors and their original glyphs? 16:10:20 OG17: the only one is brand-overlap 16:10:21 eg hydra zombie is reverse-brown D, skeleton is reverse-white D, spectral is reverse-greed D, simulacrum is reverse-ice D 16:10:30 what uses reverse currently? 16:10:50 I mean, what uses it without keeping the monster's original color 16:10:50 what about tame/confused hydra skeletons? 16:10:59 ah 16:11:33 reverse brand is something that occured to me a few minutes back, I'm not tied to it 16:11:39 clearly didn't think that through 16:12:08 it's just "large" and "small" is pretty bad for this stuff, there's a huge threat range 16:12:15 and spectral doesn't even have two glyphs 16:12:46 is there any reason there are even two glyphs for zombies/skeletons 16:12:56 by "reverse", you mean something on white background, right? 16:13:15 all of this is easy in tiles and hard in ASCII 16:13:18 I meant black glyph on a branded background 16:13:20 exactly 16:13:43 kilobyte: does unicode have all letters with ornaments (dot, umlaut, bar)? 16:14:02 sorry, no terminals I know support bright backgrounds (except for 256 colors) 16:14:06 dpeg: unicode has all glyphs, that's kinda the point 16:14:10 dpeg: yeah 16:14:14 all the more reason to switch to 256 colors!! 16:14:25 and even more, you can have all of them at once 16:14:31 using combining characters 16:14:46 kilobyte: we might improve console display considerably then 16:14:48 it'd be great if this could be done in the future 16:15:07 we can make shields and weapons show up as diacriticals 16:15:12 and orc will look like xalgo 16:16:20 Eronarn: some clients can't use glyphs that are not in a particular fonts. These are xterm, rxvt, putty, windows console (and some less used ones). 16:16:26 I was thinking of zombie as one dot, skeleton as two dots or so 16:16:48 but in general, about any fonts support at least a quite common subset 16:17:23 yes, we shouldn't go all that crazy with unicode stuff 16:17:43 unicode support itself might be there, but font support is not quite as good of an assumption 16:18:03 as in, there are custom fonts with nothing but ASCII (and sometimes even not that!), but all fonts shipped by default with operating systems are not that bare 16:18:51 from my research, a very good rule of thumb is: if something is on Microsoft's "WGL4": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wgl4 -- it is everywhere 16:19:04 since Apple uses similar but wider rules 16:19:28 and Linux distributions use DejaVu by default which has a damn wide coverage 16:20:38 kilobyte: the link has not . and .. for all letters :( 16:21:21 dpeg: yeah :( 16:21:39 dpeg: in other words, you can't count on them to be supported everywhere 16:22:01 also, for what it's worth, i'd rather not be forced to use dejavu for playing crawl 16:22:12 I think putty does support combining characters, though 16:22:16 kilobyte: we have to have a plain character set to fall back on anyway 16:22:46 the default x11 bitmap fonts have decent coverage too, but it'd be nice to take them into account when making decisions 16:22:55 doy: if you even _can_ use dejavu on Linux, your terminal does support glyph fallback 16:23:07 kilobyte: does putty support characters without codepoints? 16:23:29 undead could use underlining, couldn't they? Though it mi 16:23:41 ght not be very visible on some fonts sometimes 16:23:48 ie, all semi-modern terminals which use truetype fonts use something that does substitution 16:24:20 sorear: do you mean, characters which are not found in the font selected? 16:24:53 kilobyte: is fallback going to be configured by default for someone that just opens an xterm and starts playing? 16:25:00 also, fallback is generally pretty ugly 16:25:12 in how it has to use different fonts for things 16:25:32 kilobyte: No, I mean, when NFC fails to produce a precomposed character because there isn't one 16:25:45 sorear: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/unicode-combining.html says it does 16:26:01 doy: xterm does not have fallback 16:26:30 doy: would be okay if users have to enably fancy sets 16:26:50 dpeg: i disagree, if unicode is going to be the default for crawl 16:27:09 omg, new options 16:27:16 doy: IIRC it has good support for combining characters (ie, adding random umlauts or accents to anything that's not supposed to have them), but can't use complete characters you don't have in the current font but they can be found in some other font you have on the disk 16:27:24 especially if unicode is going to start presenting more information than ascii 16:28:16 i just don't want to start using all these fancy features and then start getting bug reports and stuff about how people can't get crawl to display properly 16:28:19 windows console does not have either substitution nor combining, though :( 16:28:25 doy: it won't be more information, of course 16:28:52 doy: that's why it's better to stick to something conservative by default 16:28:54 just like Tiles does not have more information, but any tiles monster will show you more than the console letter 16:29:06 kilobyte: yeah, that's all i'm saying 16:39:46 an alternative could be to just reserve colors for zombie/skeleton/spectral, which would be very doable except for D @ e s 16:40:09 and I think @ is just dwarf hall bloat 16:40:49 simulacrum would rely on an elemental color though, not crazy about that 16:41:02 03dolorous * r9e699c24b267 10/crawl-ref/source/mapdef.h: Add spacing fixes. 16:41:04 03dolorous * r5f8c033e3dff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc mapdef.cc mapdef.h): Allow specifying monster gods in vaults. 16:41:06 03dolorous * r2ea8c004492b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: In the zin_angel vault, properly set the angel's god to Zin. 16:42:13 -!- felirx_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:42:31 though I think giving simulacrum a unique color would still only cause a problem with the listed glyphs 16:42:46 also d is there of course 16:44:51 unique colours are an interesting idea 16:46:13 spiders could use z, and dragons are only one short if non-breath monsters go on Z. Draconians are inbred as it is. Don't know about elves though 16:46:59 also there's the little side effect of shifting a ton of current monsters 16:48:27 also if any of that earlier stuff ends up being usable, draconians are also a problem on console, what with color/job 16:51:09 yes, a lot of thought required 16:53:06 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:03 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:48 03dolorous * rf58dc56d524f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Disallow vampire bat corpses and zombies, since they can never spawn. 17:06:31 do wights spawn with healing potions? 17:06:39 or do they just pick them up 17:06:41 and if so, why 17:19:36 MONUSE_WEAPONS_ARMOUR should prevent that 17:19:43 better wights than skeletal warriors 17:19:49 perhaps some of the recent changes to that code 17:19:51 sorear: <3 17:21:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:25 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 17:45:05 * dpeg has given in to pressure. 17:52:30 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS squarelos argument channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 17:53:41 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:42 03dolorous * re0de08d220b6 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Revert "Ensure monsters with vault-specified gods aren't marked as god gifts." 18:00:10 dpeg: added my feelings on the issue 18:00:14 doy: cool 18:01:08 doy: interesting idea... more keystrokes, though. 18:01:19 Or did you mean to leave the choice implicit? 18:01:26 yes, leave the choice implicit 18:01:31 ah, I see 18:01:33 this is just a way to explain the change 18:01:39 yes, I know 18:01:45 we can add this to the descriptions or whatever if necessary 18:01:46 with flavour, there are always many options 18:01:48 right 18:01:54 which is why I stopped defending my proposal 18:02:30 i think Ash's flavor of not being able to actually affect anything is pretty central to the whole proposal 18:02:39 and so protecting that is pretty important 18:03:39 doy: but you agree that mummy curses should not go through? 18:03:52 I don't care how we rationalise that away, but we have to. 18:06:31 dpeg: i'm not sure i understand that aspect, but i haven't put that much thought into it 18:07:04 doy: under Ash, you need to re-curse your stuff every time you change it (which will happen from time to time). 18:07:13 Cursing is hard -- there are only the scrolls. 18:07:26 Unless you allow miscasts and mummies, but that would be scummy. 18:07:31 well, mummies are a limited resource too 18:07:37 they aren't incredibly common 18:07:49 doy: But that wouldn't be fun... 18:08:12 miscasts are even worse, of course 18:08:19 yeah 18:08:30 we could probably drop cursing as a miscast effect altogether 18:08:37 yes 18:08:58 There is no problem with my concept where Ash asks for deliberate curses. I bet it can be explained in any other model as well. 18:09:30 Hm, curses from miscasts can be tactically interesting. 18:14:56 03dolorous * r2f019e936ce8 10/crawl-ref/source/mapdef.cc: Add spacing fix. 18:14:56 03dolorous * r9e39732c9cf4 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Don't use the vault-specified god if it's GOD_NO_GOD. 18:15:36 I infer that people are against the idea of giving ash a "curse gear" power that allows one to curse their own gear, similar to chei's "make ponderous" ability? 18:16:11 Wensley: not sure about people, but I am, yes. 18:16:18 why so? 18:16:41 sorry if I'm forcing you to reiterate :) I didn't see it discussed anywhere, though 18:17:44 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:55 Wensley: no, was only discussed on irc, I think. 18:18:12 is it just reluctance to give ash any sort of influence over the real world? 18:18:22 no, not at all 18:18:32 flavour always comes last, see below 18:18:49 would ash let you enchant your gear? 18:19:00 1) distinction between A and C. 2) turning Curse Foo scrolls into a valuable commodity. 3) This also means much harder choices (which is good). 18:19:04 TGWi: sure! 18:19:14 you know what I mean :P 18:19:16 TGWi: I mention on the wiki that Enchant Foo will not remove curses. 18:20:06 Wensley: reasoning ok? 18:20:51 dpeg: I'd be careful about making curse foo scrolls too important, since I doubt you really want to see people scumming abyss/pan for them... 18:21:05 That's not the matter... 18:21:14 the fate of gods is decided in normal game 18:21:15 s 18:21:43 it doesn't take a hugely strong character to scum abyss 18:21:50 I'd be careful about making [any item] too important, since I doubt you really want to see people scumming abyss/pan for them 18:22:26 it's almost as though infinite item generation in those branches is problematic 18:22:34 sure is 18:23:31 Much rather than a curse ability I'd have the god gift curse foo scrolls. 18:23:43 This is why I am not really concerned about this issue. 18:23:45 anything that requires specific scrolls to play with sounds potentially very annoying 18:23:49 dpeg: yes, thanks for explaining :) but if scarcity of curse scrolls is an issue, a god power that carries some additional downside might work. I guess we'll have to see how it plays 18:23:50 god gifting them would work though 18:24:11 It's all on the wiki :) I did think about the god for a while. 18:24:32 maybe praying over scrolls of remove curse could turn them into scrolls of curse foo? 18:24:45 does ash have a pray effect otherwise? 18:24:59 i think that could work 18:24:59 This is an interesting idea... if scrolls of RC weren't so damn numerous :) 18:25:05 Wensley: no 18:25:19 Also take note that ?DC is like paper for Ashers. 18:25:39 can we just cut ?RC generation by about half? 18:25:43 for everyone? 18:25:52 doy: do it starting a few levels down 18:25:52 ?DC is like paper for all characters 18:26:03 TGWi: shrug 18:26:06 doy: for A, it is real paper :) 18:26:31 There was this idea to make RC much more rare but keep DC rates. 18:26:41 dpeg: yes, i think that would help things 18:26:46 Not the only approach, to be sure. 18:26:49 sure 18:26:51 doy: seems nice to let people have at least one, but yeah they do really accumulate 18:27:11 dpeg: yeah, ?RC is really numerous, but surely even ash worshipers would need them once in a while as well. this would let them make an interesting choice 18:27:49 Wensley: sure they would 18:27:52 and since ?RC are supposed to be nerfed for ash worshipers, they'll potenitally need lots of them 18:27:58 It is an interesting idea --> wiki please :) 18:28:03 will do 18:28:08 Thank you! 18:33:38 with regards to kirke porkalating people who are swimming/flying over deep water: 18:33:43 it should make you a flying pig 18:34:22 13:58:51 < monky> imo there should be airborne/aquatic pig variants 18:34:33 I would prefer swimming. Pigs can swim, just not very well. 18:34:43 dpeg is still ignoring me, I take it :( 18:34:45 (That wouldn't solve lava, I know.) 18:34:54 pigs should float, they're mostly fat 18:34:58 yes 18:35:01 fat which would also give insulation! 18:35:05 we're geniuses 18:35:06 :) 18:35:18 * dpeg is tired. 18:35:24 See you later. 18:35:27 night, dpeg 18:35:30 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:36:07 anyway, the original reason I showed up was very important: why no surfboards? 18:36:28 no surf? 18:36:37 how's shoals 18:36:54 shoals are underground, they cannot have waves. 18:37:00 this is why norris is so angry 18:37:15 if you were right about that, they also could not have open sea 18:37:40 I will stab the next person to make a stupid "but the dungeon is underground!" complaint. 18:37:40 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:37:48 !messages 18:37:48 (1/1) dpeg said (8h 47m ago): You want to hand over the 'p' <--> 'aP' task? That's okay, I'd just adjust the Mantis comment, so that the Implementable looks free again. 18:38:17 due: is it ever specified? the dungeon could be a gigantic tower that you start at the top of 18:38:21 !tell dpeg Well, I didn't have time for it at all last weekend, and the likelihood of me having time to do it this week is... looking slim. So it's probably best to hand it over to someone else; it's a relatively easy tast, too. 18:38:21 due: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 18:38:28 or a figment of your imagination 18:38:44 It's a consensual mass hallucination. 18:38:46 or part of a game 18:39:35 maybe the whole thing is on ground-level and you're just looking at it sideways 18:42:06 03dolorous * rf2acd8033619 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove unneeded blank line. 18:42:11 solution to crawl: dig a canal from any ocean to the down staircase to D:1. drown everything. be a merfolk. ascend with orb. 18:42:56 merfolk can't sumberge 18:43:03 well I guess they can 18:43:05 but only to get items 18:43:21 the water is only two feet deep 18:43:32 they're just really good at floating 18:43:45 and everyone else can drown in 2 feet of water 18:44:11 spriggans should drown in shallow water 18:44:34 "Spriggans should drown in shallow water" is another stupid comment. :p 18:44:40 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:42 <-- is stabbed 18:45:13 due: you're killing me, here. If I'm forced to make only intelligent comments, I'll simply cease to exist 18:45:24 But then the world might be a better place. 18:45:40 you've smote my feelings 18:45:43 ;_; 18:52:11 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:24 * due calls down the wrath of dpeg on Wensley? 18:56:16 we'll have to make a wiki page for the new god "dpeg" before we can start discussing wrath effects :P 18:56:55 ??smite 18:56:55 smite[1/4]: Enemy priests do this to you, including those irritating early orc priests. Base damage is minor (~15 points), but nearly impossible to avoid, as the attack ignores statues, friendly (to the priest) monsters, all player resistances, EV, and AC. 18:58:42 so I suppose all enemies that use smite who aren't orcs or elves worship this mysterious dark god "dpeg" 18:59:16 Well, who do you think the Nameless God is? 18:59:37 Why do you think there are so many artifacts named Plog in the dungeon? 19:01:02 I feel like the protagonist of a lovecraft story. It's all so clear to me know, but at what cost? 19:01:17 <-- madness 19:05:16 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:28:52 03dolorous * r4f45919f3ded 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: Fix type mismatch in mgen_data::hostile_at(). 19:34:42 @dump 19:34:42 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/upsy/upsy.txt 19:35:06 -!- enne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:06 03dolorous * rd62579eda4b5 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: Revert "Fix type mismatch in mgen_data::hostile_at()." 19:39:16 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:51 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 19:49:25 03dolorous * re82723e3edb6 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: Fix *actual* type mismatch in mgen_data::mgen_data(). 19:49:25 03dolorous * r8e86797cee8e 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: In the mgen_data class, rename the initializer variables for clarity. 20:03:08 03dolorous * rec1edb9dab7c 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Mark giant spores created by Fedhas' invocations as Fedhas' gifts. 20:09:43 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:23:35 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:52 03dolorous * r543b7e85308e 10/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc: Convert an instance of Fedhas' wrath to use mgen::hostile_at(). 20:51:56 03dolorous * r04c15247821b 10/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc: Fix messaging for Fedhas' oklob-spawning retribution. 20:54:56 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!] 21:20:12 03dolorous * r846508716d8d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Add a FIXME comment. 21:20:19 03dolorous * re72736aebc8e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc mon-cast.cc): Add formatting fixes. 21:20:35 03dolorous * r9c34d9f4a993 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Simplify. 21:20:46 03dolorous * r64faaf82f754 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Remove unnecessary include. 21:24:27 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:08 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:51 03dolorous * rd5a081db8012 10/crawl-ref/source/mgen_data.h: Add spacing fix. 21:54:54 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:42 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:35 03dolorous * r6b8b890d808a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Remove unneeded blank line. 22:25:36 03dolorous * r71a15ff25c66 10/crawl-ref/source/attitude-change.cc: Remove now-unnecessary checks regarding mons_make_god_gift(). 23:16:41 03dolorous * rd5ea34780108 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc mapdef.cc mapdef.h mon-place.cc): Allow specifying whether a monster is a god gift in vaults. 23:16:52 03dolorous * r6a46833bb3a6 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 23:28:48 03dolorous * rc1133f2db75d 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Document the "god:" and "god_gift" tags. I hope it's clear enough. 23:28:48 03dolorous * r29900848072a 10/crawl-ref/source/mapdef.h: Properly reorder "god" and "god gift" vault parameters. 23:37:49 03dolorous * r4d3b7f882866 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Clarify the documentation a bit more regarding "god_gift". 23:51:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 23:53:56 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]