01:22:49 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:31:20 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 01:32:58 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 01:40:31 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:46 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:29:16 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:02 -!- monky has quit [Quit: what] 04:16:30 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:33 Cheers 04:17:12 Hi 04:23:03 Galehar: do you play with gold and turncount on? I always suppress that line (there's an option for that). 04:24:22 no, what is it? 04:24:55 oh, I mean yes 04:25:00 I have the turncount 04:25:25 but it counts player turns 04:28:08 yes 04:28:15 I don't simply have them. 04:28:48 setting the option to false doesn't remove the line 04:28:51 in tiles :) 04:28:54 On console, screen space is scarce, and I'd rather have one more line for the monster list. Gold is non-important information (and there's always '$' and '%'), same for turns. 04:28:57 I see :) 04:29:30 well, I agree that the turn counter isn't very useful as long as it counts actions 04:29:39 an absolute time counter would be 04:29:51 The one good aspect of turn/timer count is didactical: show the player how long swapping clothes can take, that he did one round of long-search etc. 04:30:04 exactly 04:30:21 but the actual one is useless for fast actions (<1 turn) 04:30:26 and misleading 04:30:38 as I said on the wiki, switching jewellery is 2 actions 04:30:39 yes 04:30:46 but hardly 2 turns 04:31:01 But I am not sure I want to burden players with decimal numbers. 04:31:11 Perhaps there is another way of indicating this? 04:31:31 I can't see any 04:31:57 I have found nowhere how long does it take to weild weapon or switch jewellery 04:32:36 I am sure it is possible to indicate very fast actions somehow. 04:32:49 "You put on the ring. This didn't take long." :) 04:33:16 well, decimal counter could also better show how bad swinging that triple sword unskilled is 04:33:21 Hi. 04:33:23 Hi! 04:33:30 Galehar: maybe I can be convinced :) 04:33:34 Ahhh what a week. 04:33:43 due: What's a matter? 04:34:05 Nothing, just very busy. 04:36:31 dpeg: those with more lines will want to turn that option on. And 25 lines cripples your viewport -- you benefit from seeing a chunk of space just beside LOS. 04:36:47 kilobyte: I play with 80x24 :) 04:37:16 As I said, I see some use in showing turns, but printing gold is pretty superflous. 04:38:01 increasing viewport further has very limited gains and comes at the cost of making your font tiny, so I play on 97x37 even though I use 125x45 for all other tasks 04:38:29 yeah, gold is not that important, we don't have an option to switch one but not the other though 04:38:42 and if the line is taken anyway... 04:39:18 well, I only suggested to change the turn counter into a time counter 04:39:20 kilobyte: doy and I had some ideas for how to optimise the status section. 04:39:30 For example, it would be really good if piety *'s were visible 04:39:41 Galehar: always a can of worm 04:39:44 s :) 04:40:05 piety *'s could be done with just a message -- it's something that changes very rarely 04:40:19 that depends on your god 04:40:45 right, _some_ warning would be a good improvement 04:41:03 I would expect someone like trog's piety to change quite a lot, but not enough to be spammy 04:41:10 kilobyte: I believe that watching the *'s come (and go) is quite important. 04:41:19 you can get an invocation title and check like that ;) 04:41:20 I find me checking % for this purpose very often, at any case. 04:41:48 dpeg: yeah -- we currently don't get warned when it changes so you need to check 04:41:53 replace the gold counter by a piety counter! :) 04:41:53 We're talking about 7 spaces: "_______", not even a line 04:42:07 Galehar: would be an improvement, yeah 04:42:11 casmith789: invocation titles happen basically only with Makhleb, and even that mostly on mummies 04:42:15 but I think it's best to list the *'s right after the god 04:42:27 that was a joke ;) 04:42:46 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:58 casmith789: not that much of a joke -- I did victory dance invo in the past for this exact reason 04:43:05 :) 04:43:38 well zigrobin has an invo title because they change so much and many of them are good, but not many chars get an invo title if they are just playing normally 04:44:04 dpeg: your idea is great for advanced players; I'm not so sure about newbies who would need to have an explanation what that **** is -- like, "Piety:" which takes 7 spaces 04:44:38 will that not use up too much space on a 80x24 screen to fit the title on as well? 04:44:42 or replace the title 04:45:14 titles don't give you anything really 04:45:22 yes 04:45:35 except some flavour 04:46:35 due: do you know why a KPROP: |O* = no_jiyva would disable item generation on '*' but not '|'? 04:46:52 titles are flavour 04:47:04 I like that when you watch somebody's game, god and title are shown 04:47:13 kilobyte: Hm, no... 04:47:22 They're both handled the same, as far as I can tell. 04:47:28 Or at least, as far as I could remember. 04:47:37 I'd understand if adding a kprop disabled both 04:47:50 kilobyte: if the piety-*'s were added _together_ with messages for changes (i.e. you get a new star, or lose one), the problem is solved. 04:48:38 dpeg: that might work 04:48:44 kilobyte: what if you make the vaults full of O, use KPROP: O = no_jiyva, and then use NSUBST's to replace almost all O's by | and * ? 04:49:12 can also just use *'s, of course, and NSUBST some with |'s 04:49:57 I'm recompiling (after a stash pop) so I can check KITEM: * = star_item 04:50:41 it works 04:50:48 i agree that turncount is pretty useless 04:50:59 (and misleading, as galehar said) 04:51:07 but that still leaves me curious why | would be any different than * 04:51:10 doy: a little: disrobing, search-indicator. But timer would have that, and more 04:51:24 but i have it enabled because i find having gold there to be quite useful 04:51:28 kilobyte: you could file a bug report for that... perhaps we'll find out some time. 04:51:37 as an indication of when i might want to head back for shops 04:51:41 doy is a shopper :) 04:51:56 crawl is photoshopped! 04:52:00 doy: it's still useful for score and speed runs, as we don't want to boost spriggans and centaurs even more there 04:52:07 To Erolcha: "Excuse me, madam, can you show me the way to the next mall?" 04:52:20 dpeg: :p 04:52:41 kilobyte: yes, using action count or turn count for scoring purposes is a different matter 04:53:10 kilobyte: sure, but it's not useful to have on the main screen constantly 04:53:17 right 04:53:18 not saying we should change the scoring 04:53:34 i think if we changed it from gold/turns to gold/piety, that would be an improvement 04:53:34 it's a bit weird favouring heavy weapons in speedruns though 04:53:46 (non stabber speedruns that is) 04:53:55 and not penalysing Chei 04:54:09 casmith789: good point 04:54:10 normal scoring could keep working based on action 04:54:19 but speedrun should really be based on time 04:54:30 casmith789: I wonder how big a percentage of turns is spent swinging your weapon, though 04:54:31 a status line is 42 characters long, plenty of room 04:54:50 kilobyte: if I have a quickblade, probably a lot more than an exec axe 04:55:12 still might be a tiny fraction of walking/resting 04:55:31 yes, I haven't calculated the number 04:56:02 doy: don't you think that piety *'s belong to the god, as on the % screen? 04:56:06 but I already wanted to add similar counters, to have a clue how much people walk diagonally/orthogonally in a real game 04:56:16 Also, if we do that, there should be messages for piety gain/loss on the god channel. 04:56:25 so I may add a counter of swings as well 04:57:10 my plan is to add such a line to dumps and leave that in trunk for at least of a few CDO wins, so we get some stats 04:57:32 dpeg: i don't understand 04:57:46 imo speedruns should be based on duration, but it doesn't really matter much (at all) to the actual game so isn't a high priority 04:58:02 Well, it would also be interesting to see how the action/time ratio varies for different character builds 04:58:19 definitely shouldnt be based on duration 04:58:33 yeah, duration shouldn't affect anything 04:58:36 maybe I used the wrong word 04:58:42 doy: instead of "Piety: ****", I want "...of Trog ****" 04:58:42 I meant total time in actions 04:59:16 doy: we discussed this once, there is an FR on Mantis :) 04:59:26 dpeg: ...of The Shining One [**|(cut off) 04:59:27 d: 04:59:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:29 the species/god line is already overflowing with certain combinations, don't really have room for other things there 05:00:52 Galehar: so, I can track (count,duration) of autoexplore/non-autoexplore fighting/walking orth/walking diag/others -- any other counters you can think of? 05:01:48 time resting kilobyte? 05:02:11 and i think name/title/level/species/god are all useful 05:02:14 casmith789: good idea, yeah 05:03:20 we already track a lot of that 05:03:25 for dumps 05:03:33 doy: I know that. This is why we were talking about reorganising that part of the screen. 05:04:22 doy: yeah, but I'd want a few numbers that are not currently done 05:04:38 if you read through the old FR, you can that I was aware of the matter :) 05:05:15 dpeg: it has been a while(: 05:06:48 I know 05:12:39 Wensley: I cannot reply on the gold god :) 05:13:23 sorry, I didn't figure that anyone would be on so I've been taking my time with new comments :) I'll compose my current comments offline so that it unlocks 05:13:37 no sweat 05:13:42 Wensley: good idea with the porridge, btw 05:14:07 not sure about how to enable potions for mummies -- they should be able to drink because they follow the gold god? 05:14:56 there are two potion-themed cards that work for them 05:14:59 I thought that the idea was to duplicate the potion's *effect*, but not actually put the potion in their inventory and have them drink it. I think with the current state of mummies, it would be welcome (although it wouldn't help with the early game, pre-temple) 05:16:41 Wensley: the god would be certainly good enough even without potions. 05:16:58 Wensley: ah, I see what you mean. 05:17:08 That can be decided on a whim, perhaps it's good. 05:20:27 I think it's a cool idea for a god, since money is sort of under-utilized at the moment (I was actually thinking about transmutation spells that would use gold as a reagent when I stumbled onto this page) 05:20:37 03kilobyte * r97e29d768f42 10/crawl-ref/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Add a KPROP "no_jiyva" that renders items safe. 05:21:45 yes, one of my very first devteam proposals was to introduce a rune shop at Geryon's, selling runes of prices 3k, 9k, 27k and making four runes necessary to enter Zot. 05:22:15 Trashed, of course. But I've been trying to make gold more useful ever since. Bazaars and ziggurats did make it in, for example. 05:22:15 haha, Geryon's Discount Rune Boutique :P 05:22:26 Wensley: not sure you can call that a discount :) 05:22:53 There is also the idea of the Reverse Alchemy spell, which I am quite fond of =) 05:23:01 is there a page for it? 05:23:16 dpeg: ... 05:23:21 AHAHAHHAA 05:23:28 kilobyte: You fixed it? :) 05:23:41 Wensley: only on SF, it seems 05:23:50 the spell would turn gold into energy (damage), of course :) 05:24:07 a good match for the book of chemistry, I suppose 05:24:07 due: fixed what? The kprop? I just added a kitem line. 05:24:24 kilobyte: thank you! 05:24:39 You hear Jiyva slurp happily. 05:24:50 or perhaps a stream of molten metal? 05:25:34 I was thinking turning gold into lead as an idea for a spell (reverse alchemy indeed!) which would create sling bullets. but this would be almost completely useless :P 05:25:49 kilobyte: yes, perhaps there could be some bullets appear under the beam 05:26:13 Wensley: I wanted a Tmut attack spell with component and flavour. 05:26:44 I was thinking about a torture/execution used during the Inca-Spanish wars 05:27:13 they poured molten gold into someone's mouth 05:27:37 oh man, we need a mesoamerican branch with obsidian weapons 05:27:40 or a far more popular version, with lead, used by romans and others 05:28:07 Wensley: <3 05:28:52 Wensley: an unrandart with that theme could be added even today 05:29:15 kilobyte: ah :) 05:31:07 one last issue about Shayne's patch: if you use some trick to get the Royal Jelly killed, you get the whole Slime:6 loot behind diggable rock safely 05:31:23 not sure if that's a big concern, though 05:34:23 dpeg: right now, I think the gold god's two strongest abilities, flavor-wise, are turning corpses into gold and bribing. the rest of the powers seem a little overwrought at the moment, although I think there's a lot of potential there 05:38:40 there's a big problem with food: what about trolls (need 546967789 food per microsecond), kobolds (no porridge) and ghouls (need corpses)? 05:41:36 I thought potions of porridge were independent of the carnivore mutation? 05:42:18 and yeah, ghouls simply can't be helped under the current proposal :\ 05:42:50 but hey, we've got mummy berserkers 05:43:50 like SpBe, they do not use berserk 05:44:13 Trog has other powers that make him a decent god 05:47:18 one of my best friends loves spriggan berserkers, he's splatted two of them in the orb chamber. tell him that they shouldn't be berserking :P and yeah, it is somewhat problematic. perhaps corpses could only be reduced to gold by praying over them, but that would obviate a lot of interesting ideas that are currently in the proposal 06:02:20 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:05 molten silver was used by the Mongols IIRC 06:08:16 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:58 SpBe <3. 06:20:03 kilobyte: I use SpBe to berserk. 06:20:18 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:38:53 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:01 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 06:40:16 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:38 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:13 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:19 I can't change the status of a mantis to resolved 06:58:29 Do I need special rights to do that? 07:06:23 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:08:13 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:52 back 07:20:15 Wensley: I don't mind if Gh or Mu is not as good with the gold god. 07:20:30 It's important that the gold god would have some audience, which is the case imo. 07:20:42 Btw, someone told me yesterday he likes the potion ability most :) 07:20:50 potion ability 07:20:58 Galehar: wait a moment 07:21:31 Galehar: try again 07:21:36 due: yes? 07:22:13 Wensley: I think you underestimate buying shops. 07:22:39 dpeg: works, thanks :) 07:22:46 Apart from bazaar scumming in Pan, resources are so limited. Attracting some antique shop to the dungeon is worth a lot, imo. 07:23:15 Wensley: still around? 07:23:29 I don't feel like adding another long paragraph to the wiki when I can explain it here. 07:25:05 dpeg: got your message, I'd love to bounce more ideas around. It might just be crazy enough to work. 07:26:07 Pacra: send me an email, and the we can slowly get to work. It's not as there's any urgency. 07:26:46 I think that using the combination of gluttony + battle might be odd, especially if we present it as "Okawaru". But we will surely find something to add on top of the gluttony... just need to mull it over. 07:30:56 another facet that I like is using encumbrance in some way; usually it's something that the player does their best to avoid 07:31:16 although it might remind one of the Chei benefit/drawback a bit too strongly 07:32:14 I like to think of Okawaru as a Sun Tzu personality 07:32:44 so he appreciates (or at least doesn't hate) subterfuge, but leaving your comrades to die is right out 07:35:05 Pacra: as you can see, I love exploring conducts (Chei, Ash, gluttony). But I am not sure if encumbered will add so much. But write a mail to me, I've got some ideas you might like. 07:35:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:35:54 Also, stuffing yourself is already Chei's thing 07:36:49 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:50 yes, but only minor 07:40:54 I like to think of Okawaru as a Sun Tzu personality 07:41:36 hmm, I saw that many people offering ideas thought of oka as a knight-god 07:41:54 but TSO already covers the chivalry angle. I like the sun tzu idea better 07:42:15 okawaru already has a vaguely oriental name 07:42:27 perhaps okawaru is the god of Ronin 07:43:29 Can one of you push Galehar's book patch? 07:43:45 I've been cleaning up the wiki pages, and I would take care of the documentation. 07:43:56 Pacra: mail! 07:49:16 haha, is that a command, or a declaration? 07:50:04 command :) 07:55:11 heyo dpeg 07:55:28 I had an idea about a different kind of roguelike 07:55:36 il like the Sun Tzu / Okawaru think 07:56:07 Vandal: fire away 07:56:09 You didn't find a lot of items already just lying around for you, but you could get components and reduce worthless objects you did find to their components 07:56:21 Galehar: you can add one item to the endless list on Oki's wiki :) 07:56:22 then recombine them to make your own set of gear and upgrade it 07:56:27 :3 07:56:34 Vandal: there exists stuff like it 07:56:38 really? 07:56:43 and yes, it is a fun idea to deal with the tons of garbage 07:56:46 Vandal: sure :) 07:56:57 I haven't heard of any systems like that in any mainstream roguelikes 07:57:00 Hey, it's madcoyote's idea! I'm just supporting it :) 07:57:06 Vandal: browse the list of 7DRLs on the roguebasin. 07:57:17 ah 07:57:21 Pacra: you have my mail address? 07:57:53 well I was thinking more like a full blown roguelike based around it, did any of those get more attention past the competition? 07:58:41 (also holy crap my java class is getting almost to the point where I could make something useful, we're covering loops!) 08:01:48 hehe 08:01:59 Vandal: no, not aware of a big RL like that 08:02:07 You should ask on rgrm first. 08:03:02 yeah 08:03:14 they mentioned that a game called Cataclysm was like that 08:03:24 but that it was debatable in its roguelikesness 08:03:28 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:52 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:18 -!- upsy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:09 roguelikesness... I like this word :) 08:05:25 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:25 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 08:05:25 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:49 :) 08:08:34 I was thinking w/ a well developed system like that I would just not even bother with personal combat skills, if you could make it you could use it 08:09:48 Galehar: I've been to a roguelike-dev meeting, and we discussed how to measure that ;( 08:09:51 erm, :) 08:20:17 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 08:25:53 dpeg: I am now still around, supposing you are 08:25:59 dpeg: i'll draft some further ideas up and put em in an email this morning 08:29:30 * dpeg wonders about Pacra's timezone... 08:29:51 * due sleepz. 08:29:57 night due! 08:30:04 Wensley: Hi! I am proud of my bribe branch proposal, because it is much better (imo) than bribing monsters one by one. 08:30:21 Wensley: First of all, the latter is just more of the same: another targeted ability. 08:31:27 "everything in sight" is hardly what is commonly accepted as "targeted" :P 08:31:32 Second, you'd expect that bribing lower monsters is easier, so you'd bribe orcs rather than orc warriors etc. This is (a) boring (similar to how all the enchantments work) and (b) not really what bribing is about: you want to grease the big guns. 08:32:38 Third, the proposed system is much more implicit: no asking for sums and individuals, you just pump money down the drain, and wheels will turn. I like this machina-like approach. 08:32:51 Wensley: we have several effects like that. 08:33:24 Wensley: but I think it is much less interesting to go into the Elf:7 chamber, see the elf demonologists and what not and start handing out cash. 08:33:33 Also less realistic, btw =) 08:33:47 regardless of how it is implemented, I Really do like bribing as a mechanic with the idea that it's a flawless way to defuse a situation, but possibly *very* expensive, enough that you wouldn't use it lightly. is this what you had in mind? 08:34:14 Sure, I was thinking that each bribe puts a large, fixed sum (say 3000 gold) into that branch. 08:34:41 And you'll get feedback how effective that is: "bribed few|some|many leaders" :) 08:35:46 6000 gold should buy the loyality of the V:8 guardian troop. 08:36:05 (sums depend on how much additional gold you get from killing) 08:40:07 regarding "bribing lower monsters is easier which is boring" etc., we could discourage this (under my proposal, which, as you point out, has other issues), by having an "attrition" timer, which increments every time one of your allies dies, decrements slowly, and increases the cost of further allies as it goes up. also, under your system, would you not still go into elf:7, see the demonologists, a 08:40:09 nd start handing out cash? 08:43:02 no! 08:43:45 You would activite the ability, get a list of all bribable branches (those which you've seen yet and which contain intelligent beings) and that's it. 08:44:05 OT grammar question: "well known fact" or "well-known fact"? 08:44:16 British English, in case that matters 08:44:34 well I don't know british, but it's definitely the latter 08:45:13 Wensley: But: "The stunts of zipcode are well-known."? 08:45:19 that is correct? 08:45:36 zipcode? that's not british 08:45:41 :P 08:45:50 and if you want to be completely correct, it's ZIP code 08:46:19 "zone improvement plan" 08:46:23 was referring to the Crawl player, to provide some ##crawl context 08:46:28 hahaha 08:46:46 it was less off-topic than I realized 08:46:51 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:15 but yes, that's correct 08:47:19 thanks 08:47:49 so what happens once you get a list of bribable branches? we're in elf:7, and demonologists are murdering us, and we want that to stop. we select "elven halls". what now? do the demonologists stop murdering us? 08:48:15 Wensley: ah, good point. I would like it if bribing takes a while to sink in. 08:48:19 So no instant effects. 08:48:27 You should think about it in advance. 08:48:36 And you cannot affect monsters that already saw you. 08:48:46 away for a moment 08:48:50 okay 08:50:46 for when you get back: what determines the order in which monsters are recruited? is it HD? it's obvious that an orc warlord will take precedence over an orc knight, but if I use this power in elf, will I get blademasters? master archers? death mages? annihilators? 08:52:19 also, traditionally, dragons have a thing for gold. what are your opinions on this god's interactions with dragons and pseudo-dragons? 08:56:17 oooh, i like that a lot wensley. 08:57:05 the bit about dragons? :) 08:58:06 yes 08:58:15 adds great flavor 09:08:10 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:38 it is a well-known fantasy trope, but I'm still trying to think of a way to incorporate dragons into this god. we might need to tweak his flavor a bit to make it work. in any case, I would prefer having a more oblique approach to this god's theme. for example, ashenzari is cooler as a god of curses than a god of divinations, even though it was originally envisioned as the latter, and the... 09:09:40 ...flavor works really well. this god could use a facet that related it to gold, without it being just "the gold god" 09:11:06 "god of commerce" and "god of greed" are two simple proposals 09:11:10 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:45 (if you can't tell, cohesiveness of flavor is very important to me. :P boo makhleb, boo okawaru, yay kiku, yay trog) 09:16:00 Wensley: trog is a meanie 09:16:17 -!- gamefreak264 has left ##crawl-dev 09:17:12 exactly! he is great, not just because he's a berserker god, but because he is the anti-spellcaster god. that gives him some much-appreciated depth 09:24:19 back 09:25:28 Wensley: yay :) 09:25:58 Wensley: It took us (jpeg and me) a while, but we were very happy when we got book burning into the game :) 09:26:55 re who to bribe: that's not really crucial. I would use xp, but other solutions are possible. It should be clear that we want to bribe the big shots. 09:27:27 re dragons: I've never been fond of dragon lore, to me, a dragon is a capital d. Expanding the god's scope is fine with me, but I need your proposals. 09:27:44 will do on the scope front 09:28:03 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:28:04 don't worry too much about the ghouls :) 09:28:14 oh, but I have hilarious ideas 09:28:23 hilarious == good 09:28:30 would you like to hear them here? 09:28:41 Need radical, wacky, insane proposals, not more of the pedestrian, timid, standard type. 09:28:46 Wensley: absolutely. 09:29:17 hahaha, most of my ideas are fit for the learndb's bad_ideas, but they're certainly radical :P 09:29:22 Wensley: good point about duplicating stacks of food, btw. 09:29:52 it's still not a great solution since it requires so much backtracking, but I have a separate proposal for that 09:29:55 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:08 [Someone told me that Incursion's gods are better than ours. I am still bitter. :] 09:35:27 Wensley: ? 09:35:37 typing it up right now 09:37:39 First: new idea: smokehouse (it needs a better name). This is a new shop that sells preserved corpses. Preserved corpses never rot, and butchering them yields preserved chunks, which are permafood, although they should provide less nutrition than fresh chunks. There are a ton of spells that depend on corpses or chunks (twisted resurrection, sublimation, bone shards, corpse rot, animate *,... 09:37:41 ...simulacrum), and it would be nice to have a source of corpses for the corpseless endgame. Other uses for these corpses: ghoul healing (giving corpses a price would allow duplication), and acquiring specific hides (no rPois for swamps? buy that preserved swamp dragon!). 09:38:28 it ties in with the gold god's proposed shops power 09:45:38 if we like the idea of having preserved corpses (which would make so many necromancy spells more relevant in the long run without kiku), we could also add a potion of embalming or somesuch to allow the player to preserve their own corpses (since having a Jerkification spell to do that would likely be too powerful) 09:48:00 okay, why not? 09:48:18 Note that players sometimes campaign for abilition of food shops (won't happen, don't worry). 09:48:37 spell is out of the question, yes 09:49:18 the ghoul player only needs one such potion, btw, all the rest would be diligent duplication 09:49:52 indeed. and perhaps all ghouls might even start with one, or possibly all necromancers 09:49:58 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:28 though it might be weird to start with something that would only become useful much later on (but very useful at that) 09:52:20 yes, don't think that is necessary 09:52:27 you will find such a potion eventually 09:53:44 Hah, I made peace on rgrm. 09:54:14 Hrm, I want to make a wiki page for this idea (in the "items" category). How do I create a new wiki page? 09:54:21 perhaps you can't 09:54:23 wait a bit 09:54:32 I thought that page creation was enabled for everyone? 09:54:51 no you can 09:54:54 not sure 09:55:14 * 09:55:17 now you can 09:55:17 to create pages on dokuwiki, try to go to the page and it'll prompt if you want to create it 09:55:43 and yes everyone can create pages, unless that was changed 09:56:34 ah, thanks :) 09:56:36 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:59:29 how do I define a namespace for this page? I want it to go in dcss:feedback:items:smokehouses 10:00:07 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:09 not sure that is possible 10:00:30 I'm just following what I believe to be the instructions :P 10:00:45 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:template 10:00:53 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:smokehouse 10:00:56 here you go 10:01:09 ah, thanks 10:01:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:22 elliptic: Hi! 10:01:42 you enter the url you want (in this case, I replaced "start" by "smokehouse"), then the page does not exist and you click the Create Page button 10:21:41 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:smokehouse 10:23:26 dpeg: look good? 10:24:15 yes 10:25:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:00 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:00 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 10:27:00 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:28 gotta catch a train 10:32:29 later! 10:32:37 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:33:16 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:25 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44:32 -!- Galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:51:09 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:32 read the first post http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=15055 10:53:53 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:36 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:55 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:16 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 11:41:32 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:14 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 11:45:46 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:24 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:48 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48:35 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:37 03dolorous * r4f346745c332 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 13:05:08 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:45 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:24 03dolorous * reb97d8865ed6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix wand usage for monsters to match logic elsewhere. 13:23:19 03dolorous * ra618980c7b3b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Make MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT allow wand/rod use again (oops). 13:32:34 03dolorous * r9fdd5fb36464 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Comment fix. 13:32:35 03dolorous * r649349222bb7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Fix parentheses in the routine to give Maurice a wand. 13:43:44 03dolorous * r091c9128d639 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-enum.h wiz-mon.cc): Remove effectively unused MONUSE_MAGIC_ITEMS. 13:48:35 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:35 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 13:48:35 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:48 Is MUT+ scummable? 13:54:56 -!- bmh has left ##crawl-dev 13:57:04 !tell bmh as scummable as chaining haste 13:57:04 casmith789: OK, I'll let bmh know. 14:03:25 03dolorous * r07e68db10d86 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Add a few rod-related cleanups. 14:39:08 03dolorous * re8502757cf96 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Unify wand and rod handling a bit more. 14:41:09 03dolorous * r51c379d3fe67 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Typo fix. 15:14:31 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:43 03dolorous * re1ee8614ea85 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Make all monster item usage check for MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT. 15:29:41 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:28 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:58 wow, Eino has been pilfering the wiki 15:34:59 he even made sensible comments among the renaming mass 15:35:53 !seen anyone 15:35:53 Sorry dpeg, I haven't seen anyone. 15:36:03 Kicking Henzell :) 15:36:12 !coffee Henzell 15:36:12 * Henzell hands Henzell a mug of irish coffee, brewed by Crazy Yiuf. 15:36:16 !coffee dpeg 15:36:17 * Henzell hands dpeg a cup of café au lait, brewed by Crazy Yiuf. 15:40:14 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: Yes, Virginia...] 16:00:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:53 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:18 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:40 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:06 was the glyph for dwarfs settled on? 16:21:02 no :( 16:21:33 Mu_: minipoll among devs? 16:21:45 We had q, g, h, I think? 16:22:03 v 16:22:23 q, Q, g, v i think 16:22:35 Someone also mentioned h. 16:22:44 weird, with dogs? 16:22:46 :P 16:22:50 humanoids 16:22:54 but that's a terrible Nethackism 16:23:00 We'd get sued for that. 16:23:08 ah 16:23:10 I think it's cool if different player species had different glyphs. 16:23:12 what's d? 16:23:18 draconians 16:23:19 draconians, not an option 16:23:23 oh, right 16:26:22 could also just stick them on @ tbh, not like there'll be much confusion while you're in a dwarf branch :P 16:29:21 no, @ is bad 16:29:50 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:10 iirc 6 is still available, too 16:30:12 Having different glyphs for different player species is not at all necessary, but I like it as much as different starting letter for different gods. At lot, that is. 16:30:23 Zannick: 6 might be for demongods. 16:30:31 demigods? 16:30:35 that works :) 16:30:35 clouded (L27 DEAE) ASSERT(in_bounds(mons->target) || mons->target.origin()) in 'mon-act.cc' at line 2140 failed. (Zot:4) 16:30:38 demonspawns 16:30:43 <--- needs some sleep 16:30:43 ah 16:31:20 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:24 Pacra! 16:31:42 good day 16:34:33 dpeg: Earlier today you asked me to write up a gold god proposal if I had any ideas. See: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:gold#wensley_s_proposal 16:36:15 can we not use & for demonspawn? 16:39:43 heh, souvenir shop 16:40:25 :) 16:41:10 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:31 Wensley: will look later 16:43:43 no prob, I need to sleep as well 16:43:43 The wiki Recent Changes does not look like it used to be :) 16:43:49 Will comment, don't worry. 16:43:56 thanks :) 16:44:49 But be aware that the gold god proposal involved a lot of 1-on-1 thinking between hammerbro and me (look, Pacra! :), and then some more polishing by me. I believe that the god would work as proposed. (Can be improved, no question about that.) 16:45:30 * bhaak thinks dpeg wants to start a fight 16:45:40 bhaak: here or rgrd? 16:45:46 in rgrd :) 16:45:58 that's a bad idea when we meet in person tomorrow ;-D 16:45:59 I believe the question is absolutely necessary. 16:46:17 It could have been posed less snipingly. 16:46:26 hehe :-) 16:46:43 But it is not clear to me why you would want to model something like he wants on Nethack. 16:46:47 Why not take POWDER? 16:46:58 it's also not necessary 16:47:12 POWDER has a dev who'll talk to you, thought a lot about design, is a great coder and has a very portable game. 16:47:21 everything he listed is not really unique to nethack or even easiest to rip out of nethack's code 16:47:42 That makes my question more valid, doesn't it? 16:48:20 I could also say that some NH fanboy started a fight: "feeling like Nethack" :) 16:48:32 * dpeg only feels insomnia. 16:49:24 I was just snipingly replying to some aside point of Krice's posting :) 16:50:16 We could turn the thread into a fiery flamewar with just a few posts! 16:50:26 Do you want to? (y/y) 16:50:43 so, I shouldn't reply seriously but enable my troll mode? 16:50:53 bhaak: you have to enable that? :P 16:50:56 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:01 * dpeg is trolling 24/7. 16:51:17 was a typo, dpeg is strolling 24/7. 16:51:53 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:58 oh, I thought you meant 23/6, take an hour off for lunch and sundays 16:52:09 casmith789: I am not religious. 16:52:16 even so 16:52:32 Crawl on Sabbath, Crawl on Sunday. 16:52:34 * bhaak read that as 'dpeg is strulling 24/7' wondering if English really adopted that german word for peeing 16:52:52 not so far as i know :P 16:52:57 bhaak: that is clearly below the Gürtellinie! 16:53:03 I've never heard it 16:53:27 dpeg: you started the flame war! 16:53:48 bhaak: not here, Patrick, on r.g.r.d is the destination. 16:54:10 Also, I didn't start the flamewar, I asked an innocous question. 16:55:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:56 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:59 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:04 bhaak: Hi Brendan! 16:57:06 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 16:57:06 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:11 hey 16:57:11 He is dancing again. 16:57:18 Shaky connection? 16:57:24 I've been scumming internet off of my neighbors for the past two weeks and it gets a bit flakey 16:57:29 hehe 16:57:35 I set up tethering with my phone, but that's still dodgy 16:57:45 dpeg: Can we make Sheep do extra damage to plants? 16:57:50 * dpeg does nothing like that. 16:57:56 bmh: sure! 16:58:03 All herbivores, or just sheep? 16:58:18 what are the other herbivores? Yaks? 16:58:19 * dpeg is watching Shaun the Sheep everyday with the kids. 16:58:30 bmh: I think so. 16:58:35 Elephants? 16:58:43 Yaks and Elephants are actually dangerous 16:58:51 it would just make sheep interesting 16:59:00 dpeg: but you're writing my name incorrectly! that's trolling!!!11eleven 16:59:20 To be honest, I'm pretty sure the change will have little effect on the game, if any 16:59:22 -!- enne has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:59:25 bhaak: I never wrote your name incorrectly, Pattrick. 16:59:30 casmith789: I agree. 16:59:33 casmith789 has a point 16:59:43 But wait until we have ..... sheep form :) 16:59:44 Baaa 17:00:04 cool sheep form 17:00:07 would that work for getting rid of those pesky bushes 17:00:20 hmm, slashem and omega already have sheeps and look how good it did them 17:00:36 bhaak: blatant envy! :) 17:00:51 If it doesn't have sheep, it ain't a roguelike. 17:01:23 the RNG is being a pain in the butt. 4321 gold and ONE shop 17:01:35 that sounds pretty good 17:01:56 all I want is a !cure mutation 17:02:05 bmh: you would love the gold god, wouldn't you? 17:02:13 you are building yourself a pretty good case of a zig there 17:02:14 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:17 I don't want to implement him 17:02:27 I'll give you wrath, but not another god 17:02:27 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:37 bmh: was too much? 17:02:53 dpeg: The powers can be a bother if they're interesting 17:02:56 wrath is as good 17:02:59 bmh: sure. 17:03:11 The times of gods with potion-abilities are gone. 17:04:09 I also would like to change +MUT mechanics. 17:04:20 We should discourage weapon swapping (a la vampiric weapons) 17:04:45 proposals, and it can happen very soon! 17:05:33 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:new_brands#weapons see: feyblood 17:05:38 yeah 17:05:45 I saw it the first time you linked to it 17:05:52 I don't like the flavor of it 17:06:11 is the antimagic brand still called "antimagic"? 17:06:16 bmh: linked to what? 17:06:28 dpeg: see monky's link 17:06:29 personally I think "disruption" would be a better name 17:06:32 Can't! 17:06:41 MadCoyote: interesting. ---> wiki :) 17:06:45 ?ßdpeg 17:06:48 ??dpeg 17:06:48 dpeg[1/1]: If you can't be bothered to type it into the wiki, we cannot be bothered to flesh it out or code it. Use the wiki! 17:07:24 MadCoyote: disruption actually used to be a brand, if I recall correctly 17:07:33 did crazy damage to undead or something 17:09:08 from D&D, no doubt 17:09:09 at the moment, all monster text is stored verbatim, right? 17:09:36 bmh: speech or desciption? 17:09:42 speech 17:09:58 yes, but there is a lot of conditionalising and randomising in there 17:11:20 ok. Slime pits are horrifying. I'll pass on that. 17:13:12 bmh: does your wrath incorporate the severity, living on a range like piety (i.e. 0-200 or so)? 17:13:28 dpeg: The new chei wrath? no. 17:13:46 When I overhaul general wrath I want to wrath on two axes: Tension + Severity 17:15:28 tension is not always good, but sometimes 17:15:32 depends on god & effect 17:15:49 all effects should either scale with severity or only appear in certain severity ranges 17:15:59 agreed 17:15:59 But I guess you understand what I mean on that page. 17:16:10 It is always best to be understoof :) 17:16:15 but for example, if tension is zero, Trog might send summons to kill you 17:16:21 yes 17:16:24 If tension is high, he might just buff all the monsters around you 17:16:39 or reduce/stop regeneration 17:16:45 plus reduced MR 17:16:46 Do we have support for no-drop weapons apart from summons? 17:17:00 this is only interesting under tension, but there it can hurt 17:17:08 bmh: daevas 17:17:30 dpeg: Is it special cased in the code? Is there a flag on the weapon? 17:17:58 Hey, I wouldn't know. 17:18:07 * dpeg cannot tell += from =+ 17:18:38 liar. 17:18:45 bhaak: yesterday, one of our players (and someone with good ideas) told me that Crawl's better off without me. :) 17:18:59 bmh: but I really don't know about how to prevent drops, sorry. 17:19:13 dpeg: that's fine. I can dig up the mechanic. 17:19:49 ??vampire knight 17:19:49 vampire knight[1/1]: A dangerous undead - hastes, paralyses, and hits hard. Sort of like an undead Rupert. 17:19:51 dpeg: yes, I was most amused to read that 17:20:45 bhaak: I wasn't! 17:21:02 The perils of open development... 17:21:08 all crawl developers exiled from crawl development are encouraged to seek asylum in unnethack's development team :) 17:21:09 gotta build me an ivory tower. 17:21:16 you can quote me on that 17:21:34 bhaak: even doing-no-goods like me? You cannot want that, your poor little fork :) 17:21:38 ivory tower branch 17:21:57 dpeg is our dowan, jpeg our duvessa 17:22:01 haha 17:22:11 What about my children? 17:22:25 are they working on crawl yet? 17:22:26 :P 17:23:11 dpeg needs of course some adjustments to be a valuable nethack game developer again 17:23:26 nothing a few good placed electric shocks can't accomplish! 17:23:53 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:32 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:55 bhaak: I've made my one contribution to NH development again and again and again. A borken record, that's what I am. And you won't listen! 17:27:00 Electric shock 1: balancing by bad interface is okay. Electric shock 2: scumming is a virtue. Electric shock 3: obscure item interactions are more important than gameplay! 17:27:04 Nethack, here I come .) 17:27:58 obscure actions 17:28:03 you're perfect now! what's your sf nick? I'll give you commit rights right away! 17:28:06 see also most of #___ 17:28:43 #dip, etc. 17:30:56 When I came to rgrn after playing NH for years, I complained that the obscure commands have so few applications :) 17:32:43 and then you went the crawl way. What a pity! 17:33:10 Yes, I was thinking like a twisted NH fanboy. 17:33:16 But my sister showed me the light. 17:33:25 you should probably have gone to the slashem devteam 17:33:31 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:44 bhaak: that was insane even back then. Johanna had Slashem, but we could never get into it. 17:35:59 Slashem underlines the lack of balance in Nethack. 17:36:38 dpeg: does it? how? 17:36:41 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:37:42 bhaak: The Slashem guys didn't care at all. If you see that and wonder, you also start thinking about some things in Nethack. 17:40:27 but their stated goal is to incorporate everything. ofc it's a stupid design paradigma but because of that I don't think you can compare slashem's inbalance with nethack's inbalance 17:40:42 no, of course not 17:40:52 But I think their arbitrariness openend my eyes. 17:41:06 ah, okay 17:41:06 Perhaps this is just mythical blabber, and it was reading rgrn over the years. 17:41:56 bhaak: You know I have to reply on rgrd now? 17:42:43 bhaak: Crawl is much more than a decent interface :) 17:43:22 do tell :-) 17:43:51 bhaak: I have this uncanny feeling you still don't believe it, so it seems safe to repeat the truth from time to time. 17:44:38 I only said what a crawl player might feel when playing nethack 17:45:09 the interface is IMO the most glaring difference. That's what you notice immediately 17:45:18 when i play nethack, since starting to play crawl, the levels feel really small 17:45:27 it's really dumb in nh when you have a lot of pets and you need to take them up or down the stairs 17:45:28 and i keep trying to open doors in the middle of the room ;) 17:45:58 the magic whistle becomes less of a bonus and more of a necessity 17:46:54 Well, I hope that players will notice the thought put into design... after a few years or so :) 17:47:31 MadCoyote: Crawl also has some effects which are gameplay but end up as interface convenience (Recall, Extension) 17:47:43 pets were always the most annoying part of nethack 17:47:50 I just abandoned mine on D:1 17:47:56 bmh: the starting dog is one the coolest idea of that game. 17:48:06 * dpeg never started with a cat. 17:48:06 yeah, but crawl's developers at least had the sense to make pets try to follow you through stairwells 17:48:32 MadCoyote: well, the difference is that Crawl has someone thinking about something... NH just has not. 17:48:49 So we play (or used to play) a snapshot in NH development. 17:49:11 ok... I should put this on the wiki: I think that distortion weapons should blow slime creatures apart 17:49:26 Why? 17:49:30 The poor slimies. 17:49:54 distortion should mutate them 17:50:04 If dist would translocate a Large Slime, split it in half instead and translocate one part 17:50:12 It is much more interesting to have monsters which profit from distortion... because that will make the distorter pause and wonder. 17:50:27 like what? ugly things? 17:50:30 We already have the blink frogs (distortion heals them), but it could be much better. 17:50:34 bmh: great idea. 17:50:50 my ideas tend to be great ;-) 17:50:57 haha :) +1 17:51:04 I was offered a job today, on an IOU basis. 17:51:08 Should be a not-too-late monster (uglies qualify), so as to make the choice for the distorter tougher. 17:51:17 bmh: did you accept? 17:51:23 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:23 What is IOU basis? 17:51:26 dpeg: Like I said, my ideas are good 17:51:31 I-O-U -- "I owe you" 17:51:52 yes, but what means that for the job? 17:51:59 They get your body and your soul? 17:52:00 That they don't have any money :-) 17:52:09 ah :) 17:52:22 that sounds like an IT startup 17:52:26 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:06 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:22 If I don't win this game, I quit crawl. 17:55:01 bmh: a bad proposition 17:55:23 ??agnes 17:55:23 agnes[1/3]: A lanky warrior. She moves very quickly. And does a lot of damage. [0.4]: Damage increased to 30, weapon replaced with a lajatang, often branded, speed increased to 18. 17:57:58 @??agnes 17:57:59 Agnes (11i) | Speed: 18 | HD: 11 | Health: 100 | AC/EV: 0/20 | Damage: 30 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(102) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2973. 17:58:05 @?agnes 17:58:05 Agnes (12@) | Speed: 18 | HD: 11 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(73) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2995. 17:58:54 oh, i never realized @? and @?? were different 17:59:11 yes, stable vs trunk 18:01:24 i forgot about agnes being sprigganized, though i read it in the changelog at one point 18:01:26 dpeg: I'm not sure how silly we want to get, but I would love to add a band of low powered non-hostile uniques who are absurdly off level 18:02:38 non-hostile... :) What would they do? 18:02:49 say amusing things and presumably get eaten 18:02:54 There is something is this direction already: a draconian spa in Zot 18:03:01 They're all neutral. 18:03:08 Four @'s and a h. Name the @'s "Investigators" 18:03:15 (scooby-doo?) 18:03:22 You watch too many TV shows :) 18:03:40 We will implement scooby-doo right when the timeline allows, which is in 2280 18:04:13 that's a load of crap and you know it. You'll accept any reasonable patch :-) 18:04:43 When it comes to theme, we're actually picky :) 18:04:53 There have been uniques which got rejected. 18:05:08 Paracelsus is in, but will be not be enabled in current shape. 18:06:26 i like the idea of a band of uniques in general (more like dowan/duvessa than pikel) 18:07:13 Margery and her band is cool, I think. 18:07:22 What about another Wizard/Fighter combination, but have the wizard buff the Fighter and the fighter screen the wiz? 18:07:57 Why not? But it is a lot of work to set up properly, I can imagine. 18:08:08 Not sure what the current unique proposals are about. 18:08:39 I bet that more people have seen/used my Chei code than any other code I've ever written. 18:08:44 That, I believe, is sad. 18:09:23 Why? Is it not your best code? 18:09:46 The code is fine. 18:09:54 What's disappointing is the stuff that never saw the light of day 18:10:26 Crawl or elsewhere? 18:10:38 elsewhere. Mostly scientific stuff 18:10:39 Phew, I was worried for a moment :) 18:11:00 Just a selfish Crawl joke... no chance to finish the other stuff? 18:12:09 just projects that got shelved for one reason or another (i.e. the underlying data collection platform became obsolete) 18:12:23 ah, so no further progress 18:12:35 just keep coding for Crawl, we at least appreciate it =) 18:12:52 coding for crawl is fun :) 18:12:54 best roguelike there is 18:12:57 i should do more 18:13:21 i haven't seen any bugs as fun as the 15000d1 bug, though 18:13:27 Zannick: help us! 18:13:56 If I write out more Implementables, will that be interesting for potential patch writers? 18:13:59 dpeg: i aim to! 18:14:11 Cool! 18:14:18 I'd code useful things but I strongly dislike C++ 18:14:58 I am using C++ at work with some regularity 18:15:27 * Zannick -> 18:22:36 about the discussion about species glyphs from mid-23: 18:23:08 what you mentioned for players is already implemented, as "show_player_species" 18:24:25 the idea for 'q' <-> 'h' isn't that bad, but it's more bikeshedding than something with an actual merit 18:24:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:02 upsides: consistent with Nethack (which _is_ a good idea, being nice to players who move between games is a worthy goal) 18:25:33 but then,'h' is not particularly relevant to dwarves 18:25:56 "humanoids" would include elves, humans, orcs, dwarves and halflings 18:26:55 yes 18:27:20 even with keeping elves or orcs to their own glyphs like NetHack does, halflings should be '@' as long as they are not used outside of show_player_species and a couple of vaults -- since they are just a subrace of humans 18:27:22 kilobyte: the issue is just not that important, we could settle it with a poll 18:27:27 (devs only, ofcourse) 18:27:44 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:58 kilobyte: I would say that the important question is how many subtypes we have: both 'e' and 'o' are full. 18:28:36 I don't see any reason to exclude non-devs, but I don't give a damn here really. A poll among any group is just as good. As is tossing a coin. 18:29:11 let's poll "female devs" or such and be done with it :p 18:29:16 (jk, she does tiles only) 18:29:26 kilobyte: quieter with only devs 18:45:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:06 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:06 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 18:47:06 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:37 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:35:05 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:38:52 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:10 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:07 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 20:27:38 -!- st_ has quit [] 20:34:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:38 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:42 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:47 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:14 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:35 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:48 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:17 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:48 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:53:16 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:43 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:20:39 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:50 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:50 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 23:20:50 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:51 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 23:23:39 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:24 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 23:45:05 03dolorous * r4e310ed45421 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Simplify. 23:50:05 03dolorous * rf9e7a9cb2310 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Add formatting fix.