00:02:51 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:03 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:08 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:34 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 01:11:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:59 thought: AM unique with cblink 01:22:17 nessos? 01:22:39 nah, more AM-y 01:22:42 could have cause fear 01:22:46 and corona 01:27:32 i think we need fewer monsters whose concept is "just like this one player type" 01:28:27 I was unaware there were many currently 01:33:30 wayne 01:33:36 rupert 01:33:48 there certainly are others 01:34:09 caveat: cause fear does not work on the player 01:34:24 though that reminds me that i had an idea on how to implement it (the reverse of mesmerisation) 01:34:40 I wasn't aware rupert really followed the whole "crusader" deal, with paralysis and all 01:34:57 wayne certainly though 01:38:40 also a bunch of the proposed deep dwarves and spriggans 01:40:51 although merfolk seem to have mostly avoided that, so quite possible that those will be improved before actually being added 01:45:22 I like the idea of a Spriggan berserker, just because it's not at all a common character class and it's not typically cliche. 01:45:28 But yeah, it can be taken to extremes. 01:45:34 monky: He is described as a "crusader". 01:45:42 (Or at least was, or somewhere in a comment) 01:45:57 but not really based on the class, right? 01:45:59 @??rupert 01:46:00 Rupert (04@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 123 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 21 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(106) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2993 | Sp: paralyse, confuse, berserker rage. 01:46:23 Erm, no, he is. 01:46:36 just the berserker rage? 01:47:09 Well, those were the only spells implemented when he was created, I Assume. 01:47:25 Freezing Aura, etc, haven't been implemented yet (or at least hadn't been implemented last time I checked.) 01:47:45 what about Haste? 01:47:59 not too useful if he already has berserk 01:48:04 for a monster anyway 01:48:49 my main gripe with aligning rupert with the crusader class is rupert has paralyse and confuse, which the crusader class doesn't 01:49:10 Since when? 01:49:22 The starting books don't have it, you mean? 01:49:30 Crusader is a weapon-using enchanter. 01:50:12 we could replace confuse with rmsl or something, now that that's implemented 01:50:13 (: 01:52:27 eh 01:52:35 why ruin such a killa app? ;) 01:54:06 paralysis is the main dangerous part 01:54:08 but shrug 02:01:42 rupert really isn't a crusader, but that doesn't matter 02:37:10 Napkin: guess I'm a little late: I made some squarelos builds that are linked from the squarelos wiki page 02:37:39 where did you build them, by? locally? 02:37:51 I didn't see any evidence or hint or branch on CDO 02:38:04 I cleaned up after myself 02:38:09 hehe 02:38:18 the builds should be in the same directory that regular trunk builds are 02:38:30 but due to differing name the website script doesn't pick them up 02:38:31 well, I created the branches and switched to them as default 02:38:48 that's fine of course 02:38:59 but I'm merging in squarelos only 02:39:00 you might want to delete those old builds if you can find them 02:39:15 getting ready for work, will do so later 02:39:36 could you merge master into squarelos and trigger new builds, please? 02:40:16 yes, will try 02:41:11 03by 07squarelos * re66eab0ff338 10/crawl-ref/source/ (41 files in 4 dirs): Merge remote branch 'origin/master' into squarelos 02:42:06 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:42:33 great, thanks 02:42:40 :) 02:42:43 see you later o/ 02:43:26 bye 02:53:06 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:21:43 -!- monky has quit [Quit: GOODBYE] 03:22:30 Mummies killed by hell effects curse you (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2624) by Amonchakad 03:28:40 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:12 nice, this iron imp in pan is using a rod of summoning on me 03:46:28 I thought it was an invisible pan lord or something for a moment 03:47:13 -!- gal_bolle has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:12 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 04:08:28 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:14 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:23 * due going to implement player-fear. 05:22:01 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:31 huh, this is strange 05:34:15 oh duh, that makes sense 05:35:45 -!- gal_bolle has left ##crawl-dev 05:41:36 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:48:52 -!- felirx has quit [Quit: PSU upgrade] 06:00:08 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:52 i need a new MF_ 06:19:17 Oooh I could use ENCH instead 06:19:22 cheap but useful 06:31:56 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:03 Cheers 06:33:10 hi dppeg 06:33:13 I'm implementing monster fear 06:33:54 basically as the opposite of mesmerisation 06:35:56 nice 06:36:01 needed for our holies? 06:39:07 not really 06:39:11 but I liked the idea 06:40:56 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:17 cool 06:48:29 hm 06:51:10 what? 06:51:51 I have just taken some pains to redo the Ashenzari wiki. Thrown out lots of comments. Eronarn had very many "this is boring, do it this [complicated] way" but I really want the god in 0.8 and not in 4.2 :| 06:51:52 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:28 hi felirx 06:52:41 Yes, hi! 06:57:45 felirx is not with us 06:57:54 hi :( 06:58:03 evil finns that hate us (: 06:58:47 -!- MaryPoppins is now known as Adeon 07:09:24 was cleaning up! 07:09:35 felirx: at this time of the day? :) 07:09:45 been sick sat-tue 07:09:49 only ate at uni today 07:09:56 poor felirx 07:10:32 finally got rid of my scary sub400W psu on my serverbox 07:12:57 I think this deserves pasting 07:12:59 http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/WAR/standard_tired_face.jpg 07:13:03 very... interesting bug 07:13:31 ooh it's linking :o 07:14:00 "oops". 07:17:43 wheeee is crashed 07:19:14 due: what are you doing? 07:19:20 [away for a while] 07:19:30 dpeg: implementing fear 07:20:06 ah 07:21:04 ... it 07:21:05 *works* 07:26:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:19 Is someone around who understands the changes to status.cc? 07:50:24 dpeg: I need math help 07:50:37 what is it? 07:51:20 okay, the mechanism for calculating whether or not squares are greyed out or not is: distance(you.pos, fear_monster.pos) comparable to the previous turn. 07:52:05 which means you get a roughly circular area of fear that expands every turn/every step you take away 07:52:59 hm 07:53:14 basically, i'm trying to work out how to mathematically see if 07:53:16 can you paste the snippet? 07:53:21 @....5........X 07:53:25 with the mechanism you get 07:53:36 @FFFF5FFFF....X 07:53:39 whhereas I'd like 07:53:45 @FFFF5FFFFFFFFX 07:54:00 the 5 is emanating Fear? 07:54:05 yes 07:54:10 and F is a greyed-out fear square 07:54:33 why should F extend so far to the right? 07:54:49 I don't know 07:54:57 but in the current example, it looks *strange*. 07:55:24 let me ask: the F originating from the 5, should it be symmetric around the 5? 07:55:42 yeah, I guess so. 07:55:47 (that is the current mechanism) 07:55:54 and it looks odd? 07:56:21 I'll screenshot 07:58:22 dpeg: I pm'd it to you 07:59:03 thanks 07:59:44 you mean because it is a box? 08:00:01 I think so 08:00:10 we have to get used to it, I guess 08:00:29 I commented several times on this on the wiki... Halo, Silence, Sactuary are all affected, too. 08:01:36 * due nod. 08:01:39 This is so true. 08:01:43 Okay, I'll commit as-is then. 08:02:29 Part of the issue is that, at least with the shadow imp, it moves closer to you 08:02:53 Square halos annoy me probably me more than square LOS. But these are the modern times, have to go with the flow. 08:02:56 so you can just hit . until it moves closer to you 08:03:05 due: is that a problem? 08:03:20 not at all, I guess 08:12:26 I've called it fearmonger. <3 08:12:29 -!- eith has quit [Quit: sleep] 08:13:18 03due * r5fb424c00360 10/crawl-ref/source/ (25 files): Implement fear as a monster spell, player status. 08:14:12 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:51 dpeg: replied to your mail 08:21:37 * due sleeps. 08:29:14 sleep well! 08:42:39 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:48 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:27:30 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:49 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:59 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:51 it's interesting that the two non-PR races best equipped to handle poison are the fastest regenerating and the slowest regenerating race 09:55:54 troll and DD? 10:00:24 03dolorous * r6336a3ac2119 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add formatting fix. 10:00:37 03dolorous * rc97ddb47cc52 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Set the greater wraith's species properly. 10:00:48 03dolorous * r64233f4b0277 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix genus check for ghouls in is_player_same_species(). 10:01:10 03dolorous * r21c8bdf1973c 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Add genus check for kobolds in is_player_same_species() (for nisse). 10:01:11 03dolorous * r93f637158f32 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Move comment. 10:03:27 Surr (L27 MiBe) ASSERT(slot == MSLOT_MISSILE) in 'monster.cc' at line 1486 failed. (Tomb:3) 10:05:05 dpeg: indeed. both can shrug off lower levels of poisoning just because of their innates 10:05:09 it's neat :) 10:05:10 Surr (L27 MiBe) ASSERT(slot == MSLOT_MISSILE) in 'monster.cc' at line 1486 failed. (Tomb:3) 10:05:30 also, i think we may want to examine rods when used at low evo skill 10:06:02 they're very rare, but whereas if you find a GDA on D:1 you have something your character can grow into, a rod is just flat out awesome even with no training at all 10:06:15 and will remain that way, even with no training, for much of the game 10:07:00 if they inclined you to head towards evo, that would be cool, but they're so rare that this isn't the 'obvious choice' either because you might only get a handful in a game barring acquirements 10:09:02 Eronarn: rods and misc items need rethinking, yes 10:09:45 Eronarn: you may see I pruned some (but not all!) of your Ash comments. I want the god to go into 0.8, so we want a simple design codeable now =) 10:10:18 Eronarn: and yes, rods should need more Evo, I agree with that 10:10:24 it is a bit similar to needles 10:10:40 dpeg: i'm fine with simple - i don't expect everything i posted to go in at once - but it is my worry that ash is far *too* simple atm 10:10:54 i wonder if we want to make rods include a wider variety of actual spells, or if we want to make more rod-specific spells 10:11:20 right now, rods aren't really very useful at all past midgame, except for a few specific niches 10:11:23 divinations wasn't just bad because it was widely accessible, or powerful, but because it was boring (took out all challenge, and the effects were just pure knowledge) 10:11:25 in my experience anyway 10:11:42 specifically, the rods that are just straight duplicates of conjuration spells 10:11:53 are pretty useless later on 10:12:08 and not especially interesting either 10:12:42 doy: I agree 10:12:55 Eronarn: I don't think so. The curses bit will matter in play. 10:13:15 It is a laidback god in the sense that you don't have to pray, sacrifice or use abilities. 10:13:17 rod of smiting and rod of detection are interesting because you can't get those from spells 10:13:24 and rod of demonology is useful for abjuration 10:13:27 doy: yes, I like a rod of divination 10:13:41 But everytime you want to change items you know that you're an Ashenasite. 10:13:41 dpeg: i like the idea of wearing cursed equipment, but i don't like the proposed bonuses at all. they feel like chei's bonus - 'you are better'. 10:13:43 but that's about it as far as i can think of 10:14:10 doy: I have no idea who thought that rods should be like wands (destruction spells). 10:14:58 doy: personally, i would like to see 'rod-iness' become a randart property, such that various wielded randarts may come with evokable spells. and make 'rod' into more of a base weapon type than it is currently. 10:15:30 this is because i'd like to see more reasons to keep them wielded, rather than swapping from inventory all the time 10:15:53 swapping has a role, but i feel it's overused for rods 10:16:41 (i'd like to see the same apply to enhancer stave effects, fwiw, so you could get e.g. a longsword that boosts ice magic) 10:17:36 Eronarn: I agree, and I am not happy with any of the cursed gear proposals. 10:17:47 yes, the wielding mechanic is pretty annoying for rods, in combat anyway 10:17:49 This is why I put some remark on the page to not code them. 10:18:05 seems like the god would be fine without the curse stuff 10:18:16 Mu_: the curse stuff stays. 10:18:23 THere'd be no personality without it. 10:18:29 It'd be the Okawaru of Divinations. 10:18:47 Mu_: or do you mean bonuses from cursed items? 10:19:00 either or 10:19:05 speaking of which. Will oka be reworked for 0.8? 10:19:09 Zaba: no 10:19:15 dpeg: i worry that ash will be the oka of divinations even with the curse thing ;) 10:19:16 Mu_: huh? :) 10:19:20 we have way too much going on for 0.8 already 10:19:21 (: 10:19:22 Eronarn: no, don't worry 10:19:24 doy: as always 10:19:38 so it's going to be another release with lots of new fancy stuff and the same quantity of old, unfixed stuff? 10:19:42 the 0.8 wiki page needs to be about half that size to be somewhat reasonable 10:20:01 speaking of old unfixed stuff 10:20:02 Mu_: a god with a crapload of passive Div abilities, giving piety for exploration is not only much more bland, there's also no choices involved anymore! 10:20:14 we still need someone to take on the armour rework 10:20:33 With the curses, you actually will have to make choices: what to use, and how to employ the few Curse Foo scrolls you have. 10:20:48 doy: i can dedicate a weekend some time to the math involved, if someone has a page with historical formulas that have been used 10:20:58 is there a wiki page for 'stuff that's in the need of fixing for a long while now'? 10:21:03 yeah, all the formulas are on the wiki 10:21:05 though better the more numbers, test cases, simulations, etc. they have 10:21:06 somewhere 10:21:21 wizmode can do testing for damage rolls, right? 10:21:49 dpeg: I really hate the bless idea, btw. It sounds awufl. 10:21:50 not sure if it can do damage vs player 10:22:03 dpeg: you have a better head for design than me :P i'm just not a fan of the 'god wants you to apply a normally harmful effect to yourself in exchange for an arbitrary bonuses' style that chei seems to have pioneered, feels weird :P 10:22:06 what's the bless idea? 10:22:20 doy: rename scrolls of curse foo to bless foo while playing ashenzari 10:22:36 oh, yeah, i don't see how that makes sense at all 10:22:47 I don't like the idea of renaming items like that, either. 10:23:25 Zaba: no, no such page 10:23:44 Zaba: it also depends on your taste. To me, Okawaru should get top spot, but I am slightly biased in that regard :) 10:24:08 I think that fixing old stuff should have higher priority than adding new stuff. 10:24:22 but I don't have enough free time to implement that policy :P 10:24:25 Zaba: sure, but coders love to code new stuff more than repairing old stuff. 10:24:36 i want to see layouts and monster lists get redone 10:24:39 I try to get some balance there, not sure if that can be seen. 10:24:59 dpeg, but the more new stuff is added, the harder it is to fix the balance with regard to old stuff later... 10:25:38 doy: monster lists? like what spawns where, or something else? 10:25:41 maybe you get a curse aura, the more cursed items you're wearing, and creatures in its area of effect will find themselves fumbling attacks and tripping over and other incidents of bad luck, fits more with curses :P 10:25:54 Mu_: flavour can be combined very liberally... if you look through other (board, role playing, whatever) games, you will see this. Trust me that an Ash without drawback is worse than an Ash with conduct. 10:26:04 Mu_: the idea is that ash can't (easily?) curse things directly 10:26:13 he's not about cursing your enemies, but about cursing you 10:26:17 ye 10:26:39 As I see it, the point is that restriction is good. It's a fairly Asian approach to life, I guess. 10:26:43 that's why it wouldn't work unless you had cursed gear :P 10:26:48 Eronarn: yes, that 10:26:54 And the gods likes those who follow on this path. 10:27:09 s/gods/god/ 10:27:17 Eronarn: like, the vestibule using the main dungeon monster list is terrible 10:27:23 doy: I agree. 10:27:39 For this time, I will do a different approach to the agenda. 10:27:52 more NH style :) 10:28:00 dpeg, my point is, I don't think it's an entirely good idea to introduce loads after loads of new stuff without taking care of old things that just rust and rot further, hoping that it all can be balanced/fixed 'later'. 10:28:23 Zaba: I agree but I just don't think the accusation is very fair. 10:28:35 In every version we have also addressed issues from before. 10:28:43 yeah, we're doing a pretty good job at it imo 10:28:48 considering how much it can upset players to change things 10:28:58 we managed to get major changes in to kiku and yred 10:29:04 Zaba: also, I cannot go ahead and say: "Top priority: combat system!" 10:29:13 Somebody else tried and nothing happened. 10:30:08 yes, we need support from the coder side of things 10:30:20 The game consists of a number of systems and _each_ of them can be improved with some thought and care. 10:33:29 We have to choose which one to tackle. 10:33:45 But, for example, adding a god is largely unconnected to adding or changing a branch. 10:34:37 Zaba: you can help by relentlessly pointing at old things that just rust and rot further. 10:35:11 zin! zin! zin! 10:35:14 :) 10:35:20 okawaru! 10:35:30 Oh, the pain! 10:35:34 * dpeg screams in pain. 10:35:56 why not remove the gods that are in a miserable state, and readd them when they're redone? 10:36:02 stuck it on the wiki under the cursed gear section anyway, hope that's ok :P 10:36:17 Mu_: I will retaliate! :) 10:36:18 is zin finished now, or? havent played him for a while 10:36:23 I mean, I know that many players will scream bloody murder at that, but... why not? 10:36:27 Mu_: is Imprison working? 10:36:49 don't know! 10:37:01 Zaba: hm, we have done this already (Gn gone, added DD later) and may do it again (Th gone, hope to add it again some day) 10:37:16 Mu_: Zin never needed so terribly much. 10:37:23 why not remove okawaru for 0.8? :P 10:37:39 Zaba: one reason is that we have nerfed melee to a point that even I cannot really propose that. 10:39:04 There are also some decent Oki ideas out there. 10:41:31 Eronarn: btw, the proposal of active portal vault generation would have been not so cool, imo: like active mapping, you'll probably often forget it. And there's not so many times when to use it. So why not make it passive? (I am very happy with the passive mapping we have now.) 10:42:26 dpeg: well, the reason i proposed it as active is so you can decide whether you want to step down the staircase 10:42:47 knowledge that there will be a portal vault is different from knowledge that there is a portal vault on the level you're on 10:43:10 much more capability for foresight/planning, and much more powerful/distinctive 10:43:20 gives ash an ability that cannot just be mimicked by a ?mapping 10:43:41 it could be a passive prompt on going down staircases, but that could be annoying 10:43:44 Eronarn: so you want to detect that a vault is on the next level? 10:44:03 well, that could simply be a gift: "portal vault on D:26", if you want 10:44:13 dpeg: yes - prophecy, rather than just scrying 10:44:33 Eronarn: sounds good 10:44:40 might be a little hard to code, but should be okay 10:44:49 no, probably not 10:44:51 (it could be neat if Ash had three knowledge powers: knowledge of the past (skills), of the present (scrying), and of the future (this ability) 10:45:07 this would leave a few ability slots open for curse ones 10:45:21 curse ones? 10:45:34 curse related effects (like the wearing cursed items, or curse transfer), i mean 10:45:53 most gods are in the ~6 abilities 10:46:16 I don't really like that... it is a vicious circle, like Fedhas giving fruits, if the god gives, at high piety, the tools to work around the conduct. 10:46:18 they are? 10:46:51 which gods have 6 abilities? 10:46:56 T=3, O=3, F=5, E=6, M=4 10:47:07 don't know them all off hand 10:47:35 yeah, i think most are around 4-5 10:47:37 dpeg: fedhas has decomp, sunlight, rain, repro, evolution, prayer ability, fire through plants 10:47:37 S=1 10:47:48 Eronarn: fire through plants is passive 10:47:51 V=4 i believe 10:47:52 V=0 :) 10:47:54 i'm including passives in there 10:47:58 and gifts 10:48:01 Eronarn: ah, but why :) 10:48:02 oh passive counts? ah 10:48:26 dpeg: well, imo, it counts - a player can only remember so many things about their character 10:48:27 I think it's good that some gods are much more active than others. 10:48:30 N=5, obviously 10:48:44 jiyva is like... 8? 10:48:52 Eronarn: yes, and that is why a god with many passive powers like A has few active ones 10:49:11 jelly gifting, mut gifting, unique jelly muts, remove bad mut, slimify, call jelly, jelly shield, jelly prayer 10:49:28 If the theme is good, it is easy enough for the player. 10:49:47 There is the problem that some players forget certain powers (for example Y or E prayers) 10:49:55 (btw, dpeg, did you see i finished my jiyva char? I still think the stashing thing strongly needs looked at.) 10:49:55 Need to be radical and make that abilities 10:50:09 Eronarn: yes, all-runing, congrats! 10:50:23 Eronarn: DId you reply on the J wiki? I updated it quite drastically. 10:50:36 not yet, i only had time to do ash last time 10:52:01 ' Common, red Imp is good as a early game challenge for player, but totally sucks as an ally - it's too defensive and doesn't distract monsters.' 10:52:22 thought: imp taunts could affect intelligent monster AI :) 10:52:23 Who is saying that? 10:52:26 b0rsuk 10:52:52 imps annoy players so much, it would be cute if they also annoyed monsters 10:53:05 would give a bit of a buff to summon imp, which is not so great right now 10:53:24 yesterday I got some support for the MS Hammer spell idea 10:53:27 after 30 turns the enemy starts trying to lead your imp up a staircase :P 10:53:29 would help against imps :) 10:53:33 Mu_: <3 10:54:15 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:07 b0rsuk has some great ideas on the demon page 10:55:48 yes 11:00:51 'Supreme Judge of Tartarus summons player ghosts (without deleting them, and maybe also of ascended players)' 11:00:54 this is a neat idea 11:01:15 would be a good thing for ereshkigal to have instead of 1-summon, maybe 11:02:03 +1 11:02:10 03dolorous * rb785b1ca9dc5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Add type fixes for setting ugly thing colors. 11:02:14 @??ereshkigal 11:02:14 Ereshkigal (16&) | Speed: 14 | HD: 18 | Health: 250 | AC/EV: 10/30 | Damage: 40 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(240), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 14085 | Sp: b.draining (3d22), b.cold (3d27), greater demon, torment symbol, paralyse, minor healing. 11:02:14 03dolorous * raee1a6db0a90 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Simplify displaying the ugly thing mutation message. 11:02:18 03dolorous * ra27e177e89f8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Simplify the ugly thing mutation iteration loop. 11:02:19 03dolorous * rf4cc8e26caf7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Add missing parentheses. 11:02:27 are player ghosts always rc+? 11:02:32 i forget if they gain that 11:02:36 I think so, yes 11:02:41 not sure 11:02:45 just rP 11:02:50 i think it might only be corporeal undead that get rc+ 11:02:51 blammo 11:03:02 -!- dpeg is now known as dpog 11:03:17 @??ghost 11:03:18 ghost (15p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 1 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Flags: 07undead, evil, lev | Res: 03poison | XP: 1. 11:03:24 ah; well i guess she would probably just use bolt draining rather than bolt cold in that situation 11:03:31 "or torment" 11:04:06 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:20 dpog: do you know if the jiyva muts that went in match what i had proposed on the wiki exactly? the ones i got seemed close 11:04:25 not sure which all ones got in though 11:04:55 Eronarn: no, I don't know 11:05:18 zipcode has been replying a bit, but could be more 11:07:20 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:04 bmh: Hi Brendan! 11:08:18 dpog: What became of dpeg? 11:08:28 I said some nonsense. 11:08:33 ??buckler 11:08:34 buckler[1/1]: Any character who isn't using a 2-handed weapon or unarmed combat should get one of these or better. 11:09:11 I should probably fix some bugs while I don't have a job :-D 11:11:44 ??fire arrow 11:11:44 I don't have a page labeled fire_arrow in my learndb. 11:11:52 ??throw flame 11:11:52 throw flame[1/1]: Level 2 fire/conjuration spell, identical (with only difference being range) to throw frost. Does 2d9 damage at max power. 11:11:59 bmh: there has been insane bug fixing action over the last weeks :) 11:12:04 ??throw flame[2] 11:12:04 I don't have a page labeled throw_flame[2] in my learndb. 11:13:59 I imagine it will take some time to clone the source tree... 11:17:12 -!- ortoslon has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:17:12 -!- ortoslon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:12 -!- ortoslon1 is now known as ortoslon 11:18:00 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:18:14 Eronarn: cool idea with the rune 11:18:21 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:30 dpog: what's the idea (it isn't in my buffer) 11:22:57 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:05 bmh: oh, Ero 11:23:10 s comment on the J wiki page 11:23:24 link for the lazy? 11:23:44 Jiyva gets power from followers (not so many around) and the rune. If the player kills TRJ and steals the rune, J dies. 11:23:55 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:jiyva 11:24:44 -!- Wensley has quit [Client Quit] 11:24:51 I thought Jiyva already dies when you kill TRJ 11:25:01 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:02 bmh: yes, but Ero wants to change the procedure 11:28:31 dpog: Found it. Seems like a totally reasonable idea 11:31:49 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:22 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:34 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:45 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:11 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:59:08 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:31 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:14:07 -!- bmh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:54 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:26 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:25:36 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:42 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:39:18 Eronarn: still around? 12:39:25 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:30 zipcode just added the current J mutations to the wiki. 12:41:10 Needles are nice (think Trog with high throwing skill) but the interface to use them drives me away 12:41:45 joosa: why? 12:41:54 Firing is good now, isn't it? 12:42:11 It's good when you already have the needle you wanted quivered 12:42:25 joosa: are you using ( and ) keys? 12:42:27 yes 12:42:35 Having a list would be way better 12:42:35 And it is still too bad? 12:42:39 joosa: press Q 12:42:46 or F 12:43:01 there are five keys for firing, must be good for something 12:43:16 I agree that needle users will be swapping more than others... 12:43:22 If compared to the relatively simple way of casting spells, using any ranged thingy is way too complicated 12:43:43 I disagree. 12:43:49 I find firing easier than casting. 12:44:16 I find selecting the spells more annoying than casting :) 12:44:54 joosa: than firing? 12:45:01 ah, I see what you mean 12:45:40 oh, yay 12:45:42 will take a look later 12:45:49 btw, can you inscribe needles to be fired with F1, etc? 12:45:58 just smash down k (f) and stuff will fly out! 12:46:26 Nope, seems you can't 12:46:33 joosa: what is wrong with using Q and F? 12:46:51 Having to move around _inventory_ letters for firing is cumbersome 12:47:22 joosa: the point of () is exactly that you don't 12:47:44 Yes, but then you have to scroll through a list that shows only the selected ammunition 12:47:51 Not the optimal solution 12:48:00 what would be a better solution, joosa? 12:48:05 I just don't know 12:48:07 We spent quite some time on the firing interface 12:48:18 I agree the quivering system has been improved lots 12:48:19 "not optimal" == room for improvement 12:49:17 yes, but I don't know how, yet 12:49:22 think about it 12:49:37 Requires studying yourself when playing... can become second nature :) 12:49:41 I have and I will :) 12:49:50 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:59 At least, this is how I try to improve the interface (and came up with % and Ctrl-O screens, for example) 12:50:05 joosa: cool! 12:50:14 I believe that it could be improved, but it's just not easy. 12:50:33 There are still some oddities, which look a bit like bugs to me. 12:50:47 At least the ") works but ( does not" bug has been solved. 12:53:54 This is my first needle using character anyway, maybe I just need to get used to it :) 12:54:54 oh man, I finally got ice storm from useless to terrible *high fives self* 12:55:02 mistell :P 12:55:06 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:03 A short scrolling list when switching with () might be nice 12:56:19 But how to fit it in the interface... 12:56:33 yes 12:56:51 it would be possible... we could list the next one (which is the most important one) 12:57:49 heck, arbitrarily fancy solutions are possible, like part of the screen being used for a window (like Nethack does), listing all the needles (resp relevant ammo) in grey, with the current choice in white 12:58:03 yes 12:58:33 But the game doesn't use windows anywhere else (yet) :) 12:58:46 yes 12:58:53 that are only temporary 12:59:21 could also use the message area for this perhaps, or better, the monster list 12:59:31 Ah, the monster list! 12:59:38 It even has the targeting system 12:59:42 however, I never found the lack of a list to be problematic, because you can scroll back with ( 13:00:38 i sometimes go all the way around the list because i'm not sure which way is the needle i want 13:00:39 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:00:54 s/needle/quiverable/ 13:01:38 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:50 Anyway, needles seem great ir 0.6/0.7 with the new additions 13:01:57 s/ir/in/ 13:02:00 joosa: good to hear 13:02:16 we contemplated scrapping one ranged attack (would've probably been needle or dart) 13:02:35 but then we thought that the principle "needles do no damage" might suffice to make them work 13:02:58 Having a re-usable way of slowing, confusing, etc is very nice 13:03:10 yes 13:03:42 There is still a lot missing with needle combat... curare is overpowering, the others may lose their power too early; skill does not matter enough (I think) 13:04:41 I think throwing skill could somehow affect how accurately you can hit in the "weak spot", effectively power 13:05:26 It takes skill to paralyse Cerebov for sure 13:07:21 joosa: one interesting take on this would be how fast it kicks in 13:07:30 yeah! 13:07:38 one reason curare is so powerful is because as long as you can hit they're instantly slowed 13:07:51 if it took 10 turns for that hydra to be slowed because you have almost no throwing skill and you hit its toe... 13:08:01 hah, yes 13:08:35 agreed 13:08:38 ---> wiki =) 13:08:43 you should, I mean :) 13:08:46 i do also think that strength should matter, though 13:08:53 Straight in the neck carotid artery would take only a couple fo turns 13:09:02 i thought the plan was to make it work like all the new needle brands 13:09:25 i think it would give an interesting niche to the bigger races to make blowguns different for them, but still good 13:10:00 We need a needle god! 13:10:19 Use what ability? a - called shot 13:10:42 joosa: there is a hunter god proposal, with ranged weapon-y stuff 13:10:53 Yeah, I read about it 13:12:02 There are at least six hunter god proposals. 13:14:16 I read about one maybe a year ago. 13:14:55 I would really like to make Vehumet a god of all ranged attacks. 13:15:15 The other hunter god proposals are more about boosting archery, which I find less interesting. There are good ideas in the set, of course. 13:15:47 Vehumat as a ranged god makes sense 13:15:55 met 13:15:57 03dolorous * r9f2d6c6399ac 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 13:15:58 03dolorous * r27565f1352ca 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Mark lindwurms as glowing with light; it matches their description. 13:16:02 03dolorous * rb3cea989fb90 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't treat light glow and radioactive glow as mutually exclusive. 13:16:03 03dolorous * r7a8e09831390 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make orbs of fire glow with both light and radiation. 13:16:15 oh, and of course V would lose the Summonings, but that is okay 13:16:31 there should be another god for all kinds ally-related 13:16:46 I found it strange Vehumet likes both direct destruction and lowly spammals 13:17:24 Okawaru hates dying allies! 13:17:31 Make him the ally god 13:17:34 joosa: :P 13:17:41 * jld was just about to suggest Chokowaru, actually. (-: 13:17:42 I'll eat your okawaru. 13:18:01 a set of gods for april 1? :) 13:18:22 Er, well. Okawaru, but ever since I saw "Chokowaru" that's what I find myself calling them. 13:19:30 "Why isn't there a unique that spawns in labyrinths named Bowie?" +1 :P 13:19:51 how does one leave a signature on the devwiki? I tried the four tildes like wikipedia uses, didn't work 13:19:55 Who is Bowie? 13:20:11 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091369/ 13:20:29 Wensley: there is a bunch of buttons on the top 13:20:33 Wensley: the second button from the right in the editor thing 13:20:34 the second-most to the right 13:20:41 thanks :) 13:21:22 eek, this is only 24 years old 13:21:28 new-fangled garbage :) 13:21:32 haha 13:21:54 * dpog strokes his seven inches of beard 13:23:12 What's happened to imdb anyway 13:23:32 dpog: should use the pact mechanic for a summon god :) 13:23:36 There's these ad-like photo sections before the cast list, which takes 874 % more space (more scrolling) than it used to 13:24:28 perm-MP-cost could be an interesting pact for a summoner, because it hurts them so bad 13:24:56 re: the signature button, are all of those buttons supposed to have icons? because I only see incredibly small, inconspicuous, clickable hyphens where the buttons should be 13:26:04 Eronarn: yes, I was thinking of that 13:26:09 wikified that even, iirc 13:26:36 Wensley: yes, they should be buttons like you expect them :) 13:29:36 03dolorous * r1036b259a1b2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix capitalization. 13:29:41 03dolorous * r7d94839e39cb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Tweak wording. 13:31:15 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:48 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:32 I am not so happy about the Nisse and Trollkronor. 13:36:44 But not unhappy enough to stir up action. 13:37:03 what about them? 13:38:22 don't know 13:38:27 probably they are okay 13:40:01 i have yet to look at them 13:40:06 -!- dpog is now known as dpeg 13:40:25 Probably it is just that I have never heard of them. 13:40:25 dpeg: i have not been hearing positive things about dhfh 13:40:35 oh, that is unfair 13:40:36 e.g., !hw by the bucketload 13:40:45 all of this can be repaired 13:41:14 i really don't think it should be on the 0.8 agenda in any case 13:41:17 What you should have heard is this: someone stepped up against the cunts, the scum and actually coded a branch. 13:41:23 doy: nobody is saying that 13:41:41 well, it's on the 0.8 agenda page at the moment 13:41:42 (: 13:41:54 doy: lots is on the 0.8 agenda page 13:41:55 taking a cue from shoals, let's push it back to 1.2 or so 13:42:39 blue_anna showed a substantial effort, a bit like zipcode's slime god, which came as an absolute surprise 13:42:54 And there is enough good stuff to use. I will look at the des files next week. 13:43:38 03dolorous * r3512cafd4ac1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Add comment. 13:43:41 well, amount of effort involved isn't really related to quality 13:43:42 but yes 13:43:48 i think the ideas are good in any case 13:43:54 doy: yes, but I am saying that there is enough good stuff 13:43:55 the overall ones anyway 13:53:37 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:44 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:16:56 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:43 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:37 03dolorous * rd8179380d44e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Make radioactive glow different from light glow in-game. 14:52:58 03dolorous * r1c347141f449 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Add formatting fix. 15:06:14 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:57 hey, when making a comment on dev wiki, do I add my name and date/time myself after my input or is that done automatically when I save the edit? 15:09:57 there's a button you can press 15:10:07 second from the right 15:10:29 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:24 and 2nd question. do the weapon damage types still exist? piercing/crushing/stabbing etc? seeing as I had some thoughts of having combat skill to piercing weapons and crushing weapons. 15:20:34 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:24 Without source diving I am not ashamed to ask about base AC and guaranteed damage reduction; what AC exactly counts with GDR? 15:36:53 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:38:48 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:51 umba55i5 15:40:55 dum 15:41:59 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:13 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:51 SaintHuck (L16 SpSt) ASSERT(slot == MSLOT_MISSILE) in 'monster.cc' at line 1486 failed. (Shoals:5) 15:48:29 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:26 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:43 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:47 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:40 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:03 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:04 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:37 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 17:55:29 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:18:22 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:57 good mornig 18:49:54 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:30 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:38:39 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:42:42 Trove not accepting required item (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2625) by KidC 20:08:44 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:43 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:11 03dolorous * re39635351579 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Add another formatting fix. 22:18:09 -!- paxed has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:18:35 Crash during startup (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2626) by Nobody 22:21:57 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:57 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 22:21:57 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:02 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 22:57:32 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:48 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:30 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:40 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 22:59:40 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 22:59:40 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:48 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:31 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:31 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 23:44:31 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev