00:00:54 03dolorous * r27cdbd6def19 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.cc godabil.cc godabil.h): Remove constant parameter value from yred_drain_life(). 00:24:45 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:12 03dolorous * r8f5e3c977316 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Remove more unused ability descriptions. 00:34:32 03dolorous * ra07e1e50c2b9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/ability.txt item_use.cc): Remove obsolete references to recharging and weapons of electrocution. 00:46:14 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:20 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:48 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:57 DCSS does not respond to keyboard or mouse after minimizing the window. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2610) by PaceMaker 01:36:14 03dolorous * ra596d754828b 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Add ledtim's fix to make hellfire ignore monster AC, per Mantis 873. 01:45:32 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:37 -!- monky has quit [Quit: GOODBYE] 02:10:15 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:10 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:22 Trapped in the Orc Mines ... (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2611) by Tenaya 03:06:49 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:02 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:43 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:48 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:26 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:50 hiii plog 04:00:09 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:09 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:00 do the new orb chambers not have traps, or is trap placement in subvaults broken? 04:13:20 trap placement will be broken in subvaults 04:13:34 well, trap placement probably won't happen any more 04:14:04 Isn't that just the old one but modified? I don't think it has a subvault 04:14:29 unless they're all done like that, I haven't checked 04:14:38 They're all subvaulted 04:14:43 ah 04:14:44 If the trap placement is in the original map 04:14:49 it won't extend to the subvault 04:16:25 what do you guys think about that silenced vault? I'm not to keen of gimmick zot:5s like that 04:17:17 I'm mostly against it, I think. 04:21:14 I think it can be okay. 04:21:29 Yes, the subvaults need to enable traps themselves. 04:21:56 By the way, now is a good time to comment on Ashenzari. 04:22:15 No idea how long minced is around, and the earlier ideas and comments roll in, the beter. 04:22:31 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:ashenzari 04:24:21 is he going to implement it this time, or should we think about that instead? 04:25:07 dpeg: you were involved with the subvaults? do they enable traps? 04:25:18 it's a question valid even if Ash won't make it, since tracking exploration could be good for good gods and for wraths 04:25:26 my orb chamber (normal chamber with two glass tiles) didn't have any traps 04:25:51 by: it's obvious what's wrong 04:25:55 ! is not defined 04:26:21 should I file, or will one of you fix? 04:27:36 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 04:27:51 03raphael.langella * rb716bab2e818 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: change spell_noise function (#2606) 04:27:59 the missing defs are: 04:28:00 SUBST: ! = ^ .:40 04:28:00 SUBST: . = .:500 ^ 04:28:40 by: no, I wasn't 04:28:52 I can fix. 04:29:06 ah, sorry, mixed it up then 04:29:09 kilobyte: no idea, but the fact that the design is now on wiki is already an improvement. 04:29:14 by: Enne did the subvaults. 04:29:16 (I'd just rather not start touching des files) 04:29:24 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:27 dpeg: but not the orb chamber subvaultification 04:29:44 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:00 The individual subvaults are parsed as separate as opposed to parsed as being a part of the final map. 04:33:03 by: no, not that 04:33:12 due: yes, and it is probably better that way 04:33:30 yes, completely agree 04:34:41 03kilobyte * rdda0e40d3c33 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Fix traps on Zot:5 not being generated. 04:34:52 03kilobyte * r2c5f3a898d8e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Recolor the Zot "crystal pillars" to match tiles. 04:37:06 thank you 04:37:21 03by * rd210c5de82dc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bailey.des: Fix duplicate baileys in dungeon due to trowel card. (#1542) 04:38:00 due did nothing! 04:39:55 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:02 03by * rb7475dc6c8d6 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Fix monster missile deflection description. (#2609) 04:53:21 -!- Napkin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:22 -!- Napkin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:08 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:54:12 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:12 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 04:54:12 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:10 I don't get the commit mails anymore. Same for you? 05:05:17 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin 05:05:29 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:55 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=crawl-ref-commits has them 05:16:10 can't currently check whether they've been delivered to me 05:19:43 i get them 05:20:18 I used to get them until a few days ago. 05:21:05 Not even the SF link works for me. :O 05:24:08 my latest commit mail is from about 30mis ago 05:24:40 no idea what went wrong here 05:56:56 -!- lorimer has quit [Quit: teh upgrade] 06:35:41 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:00 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:52 -!- blue_anna has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:17 does anyone know how I specify a branch on the commandline for git pull ? 06:52:43 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:44 blue_anna: No. 07:00:50 sorry 07:01:26 dpeg, nps ..I dont actually need it now its just that, with the branch part of 0.8 plan I wanted to figure out how to rebase from my own github in case someone else contributes code 07:02:15 yestedday kilobyte and due massaged the ring of Charms :) but they didnt do it from the dhfh github page 07:13:47 dpeg, do you think incense should give a permanent boost to piety, or temporary? 07:14:02 I think I want that item for the dwarf hall 07:17:42 blue_anna: not sure. Do you have a link? 07:18:24 uuh, its only 1 line 07:18:26 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:misc#more_one-off_ideas 07:18:31 Incense: boost to piety. 07:18:40 under More one-off ideas 08:15:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:26:26 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:55 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:31 back 08:52:13 !tell blue_anna Temporary, of course. (re Incense) There are still some minor questions: e.g. what to do if the player is at or near max piety. (The boost could go beyond that, a la Zin.) 08:52:13 dpeg: OK, I'll let blue_anna know. 09:53:33 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:37 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:01 dont' know who to ask so I'll just put this out here. I'd appreciate it if someone could come up with a gameplan for what I need to do to get dwarf hall merged into trunk 10:02:20 Yes, this is a good place. 10:03:24 I think the process has already started when kilobyte pushed the ring of charms yesterday. 10:05:42 dpeg: I'd prefer to get some input about what should get in and what not. An authoritative decree would be good enough :p 10:06:12 but I think that the Dwarf Hall proper could get in as-is (just with a code review), and then get redesigned later 10:06:13 kilobyte: I don't have enough time to playtest :| 10:06:30 kilobyte: but I believe the basic idea is spot on. So if the code is okay, I am also for that. 10:06:31 just sit back then? :) sorry, I'm just anxious to get player feedback from cdo test runs so I can not do so much blind editing 10:06:55 It would be okay if the branch stays dormant for a while (like Shoals back then). Much better than code-rotting. 10:07:12 blue_anna: yes, player feedback will be very good to have. 10:07:49 that casket of three fates is a separate thing -- it did not get flowering replies in general -- but its fault is redundancy rather than bad core design 10:08:05 so I wouldn't cry for either decision 10:08:06 kilobyte, what replies are you talking about? 10:08:13 kilobyte: yes, this is not a crucial piece. 10:08:19 I havent seen almost any replies for that 10:08:24 The whole idea of having branch-specific loot is not so hot, imo. 10:08:38 none at all on the patch, except one person that wanted the simalcrums permanent 10:08:49 blue_anna: ^ 10:09:11 dpeg: so, decide. Should the casket go in now, or not? (It can be removed/added later too) 10:10:03 i like the casket's idea incidentally, having multiple possible items for the evoc things seems sensible enough 10:10:43 and the simulacra sound useful enough which would be a nice change from the rest of the evoc items :P 10:10:49 MarvinPA: so there's one voice for no, one for yes. 10:11:08 simalcrums are also undead-ish, and that is useful for the branch 10:11:23 ** thematic, not useful really :P 10:14:20 MarvinPA: my misc items proposal was to always have that 10:14:34 kilobyte: heck, it works either way 10:14:51 right, that sounds cool but obviously requires lots more items to be designed for the various base types of evoc item 10:15:16 MarvinPA: see wiki page 10:15:35 The current misc items are quite a mess. We will need to look at them systematically at some point anyway. 10:18:19 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:43 -!- |eith| has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:52 blue_anna: what is your tab size? My editor (with tab size 8) appears to show things wildly different how I think yours does. 10:31:51 kilobyte, ooh thats a good idea, I should substitute out all the tabs 10:32:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:40 mmm, you're gonna hate this.. vim uses tabsize=3, gedit uses tabsize=4 or tabsize=5 :P I stopped using gedit because its sucks.. but the early patches probably have that 10:33:12 lol no offense to gedit, it just .. it can't compete 10:34:56 can anyone suggest a good indentation normalizer? 10:36:19 I heard emacs was good 10:37:14 casmith789, I'm not looking for an editor -- does it renomralize already screwed up whitespacE? 10:37:19 on T2T, I was used to strongly enforced 8 -- not directly, but with rigorous QC where most people doing the checks screamed "please run the autoindent tool", and the tool used tabs in a way that made code unreadable when viewed with a non-orthodox tab size, there was no other choice 10:37:27 there is a command that does it 10:37:36 but I forget which 10:37:54 so I'm probably biased, but people like Linus Torvalds have a similar opinion to non-8 10:38:30 but in Crawl, dolorous will instantly replace tabs with spaces, and that's perhaps a better solution 10:38:45 since that makes the code viewable regardless of editor settings 10:41:13 you can choose your tab to space ratio in emacs at least 10:41:16 (and msvc) 10:41:54 Multi-buff Extension outputs weird text (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2612) by pixnaps 10:45:20 -!- |eith| is now known as eith 10:46:56 03dolorous * r1eb1730ff7b9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-data.h): Fix the last instances of uniques' having the wrong species type. 10:48:21 gg=G in vim renormalizes the white space to your tab preferences :) 10:50:49 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:28 03raphael.langella * rcb7513472897 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Add noise level to spell description 11:09:28 03by * r50f9558106a5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Identify teleport control when aborting teleportation. (#2605) 11:09:29 03by * r9c8080792f09 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make Geryon trample. 11:10:33 this automatically renormalizes all the source with C indentation: http://nopaste.dk/p2443 11:10:54 also trims all the excess whitespace at the end of the lines 11:11:33 oops, that noise level thing was not meant to go in 11:13:22 03by * rd2e14c311a87 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Revert "Add noise level to spell description" 11:17:12 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:16 for geryon, summoners with knockback sounds like a bad idea, they'll just push the player away from the summons 11:17:47 if the idea's to make it difficult to drag him out of hell, he could just not leave the level 11:18:43 actually it'd probably be better to give beasts knockback, they could use something to make them interesting 11:20:50 that and a reaching attack for geryon could be fun 11:21:19 dpeg: what do you think about #2603 (targeting and abilities interface) 11:22:00 OG17: I suggested this yesterday with generally positive feedback, but we could certainly do something different 11:29:04 are beasts 2 glyph? 11:29:45 oi, yea they are 11:31:41 there"s - https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:demon 11:31:58 I added OG17s suggestion, and one of my own, for beasts 11:33:15 by: do you still have the SF link to commits handyß 11:34:46 by: regarding #2603, I am torn. But it is okay to streamline abilities and spells. So go ahead with the proposal. 11:38:44 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:56 what determines what a monster does once he sees you? 11:39:22 dpeg: no, but you can get to it from sourceforge.net/projects/crawl-ref 11:40:00 thanks 11:50:55 giant scorpion -> emperor scorpion 11:52:10 03by * rf19bc3dfa011 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-cast.cc spl-miscast.cc): Make spell failure glow anger Zin. (#2588) 11:53:30 I renormalized all the whitespace in my code 11:53:40 should be up to spec with the standard now :) 12:10:39 dpeg: do you know what's intended for glow and zin? 12:10:55 for what it's worth, i'm not a huge fan of the casket of three fates either, it doesn't seem that interesting, and we're planning on redoing misc items at some point anyway 12:11:15 currently, it seems like increasing gray glow (without getting yellow) is meant to give penance; is that intentional? 12:11:28 doy, if it goes I just need to know so I can find a suitable replacement in the tomb in which it appears 12:11:35 i.e., miscasting magic dart is free, but miscasting it again before the gray glow vanishes gives penance 12:11:46 well, that's the other thing, i agree with dpeg about branch-specific loot too 12:11:58 we're getting way too much semi-guaranteed stuff lately 12:12:04 and i don't really like that 12:12:05 doy, how is it specific? 12:12:26 its implemented as a general item .. it can appear anywhere that any misc item can appear 12:12:27 well, you're placing it specifically, aren't you? 12:12:35 with the amount of times I saw "Zin dissaproves of your glow" from miscasting stuff in a recent Zin game I would have been in penance constantly 12:12:56 I, on the other hand, am not a big fan of the ring of charms; isn't that part of the dwarf branch too? 12:13:03 st_: that's a separate issue with unclear messaging 12:13:21 doy, umm .. there's got to be 100s of ITEMS: in the des files 12:13:29 mine cant be the only one 12:14:09 i'm kinda ambivalent about the ring of charms 12:14:20 doy, its not a guaranteed item, is that the confusion? 12:14:26 worth seeing how well it works anyway, and i like the idea of fixedart non-weapons 12:14:43 doy, it isnt "ITEM: casket of three fates" it's "ITEM: x / y / casket" 12:16:05 blue_anna: shrug, we'll see 12:17:05 I just checked 12:17:09 the line is specifically: ITEM: box of beasts / empty ebony casket / casket of three fates 12:18:14 I have an idea for an .. not entirely difficult general ai improvement -- https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:new_behavior_modes#monster_observations 12:18:27 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:57 blue_anna: well, the question is, basically, why is that superior to "any good_item" or so 12:19:22 but shrug, will let dpeg deal with map issues 12:19:26 he's better at it anyway 12:19:27 (: 12:19:48 whatever's clever 12:21:21 other merging issues: i don't believe we ever resolved that const_cast stuff 12:21:35 should take care of that 12:22:26 doy, no? 12:23:00 no what? 12:23:22 doy -- btw, from my perspective .. the casket of fates and ring of charms are basically my signature on the branch. if it needs to be anonymized, .. well, I understand that 12:23:45 I thought you guys did resolve it 12:24:32 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24:43 resolve it how? are other people making commits to your branch? 12:25:22 no 12:25:25 you two told me to replace it 12:25:28 monster* mon = monster_at(agent->pos()); 12:25:48 yeah, that's effectively just a weird looking const_cast 12:25:52 and is still wrong 12:25:55 doy, and yes actually, kilobyte has written changes to the code 12:25:57 i went over that when you said it 12:26:42 doy, I dont think that *I* said it 12:26:46 I was told to do it 12:26:57 I said use const_cast 12:27:10 03by * r61d7e3da7967 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godconduct.cc player.cc): Distinguish costly glow in Zin's messages. (#2588) 12:27:11 I remember quite clearly that monster_at(agent->pos()) was turned down 12:27:29 log or it didnt happen :P 12:27:45 blue_anna: it doesn't matter, it's being turned down now in any case 12:27:47 I was told to do it .. theres no way someone else's code got in my commits without being told to do it 12:28:07 doy, I dont care .. just as long as some suitable replacement is put in place 12:28:25 well, i've already explained the suitable replacement in great detail 12:28:29 doy, write it 12:28:32 not interested in having that conversation again 12:35:46 03by * r9a0ee0605200 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Correct missile brand determination for damage boost. (#1993) 12:40:27 neither am I .. when we get to the point where dwarf hall would be added to trunk, except that MIRROR_DAMAGE issue, let me know then 13:03:36 blue_anna: if you want to push your patches for inclusion, you should address the issue; on the other hand I feel people might be pushing you towards merging while you were initially just interested in coding something for fun, without such aims 13:04:49 by, I'd like to see it merged .. but I'm not going to take responsibility for merging it by myself, I dont even have access. and Im not interested in taking on responsibilities 13:05:05 dwarf hall is basically "take it or leave it" and "sold as is" 13:07:33 what does that mean? 13:07:35 I'm trying to help get it ready for inclusion, but if it's up to me, then I'm not going to be the one to implement changes like doy's that I wouldnt like to see 13:07:53 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:14 I mean, if it is a *content* change than I'm all ears, but this is more a matter of style 13:08:27 and doy has a good style, no doubt about it 13:08:43 that is not a matter of style, that is a matter of good code vs bad code 13:08:48 by, it is 13:08:58 by it might even be both 13:09:38 that particular code has: if (agent->pos() == you.pos()) else monster_at(agent->pos()) 13:09:43 over the course of a project's lifespan a certain ammount of things are accepted .. especially at the BETA- level, which is where my code is 13:09:51 which is wrong... monsters can be on the same square as you 13:10:05 if people like the functionality I specced out with my code, but they disagree with the implementation, they can change it 13:10:15 and the second part is correct but inefficient for no good reason 13:10:28 but I'm not interested in changing the fundamental arcitecture of stone soup in any way.. not yet at least 13:10:38 and that is rpecisely what doy asks of me 13:10:55 that's not true at all 13:11:45 I get the impression you're too lazy and/or stubborn to fix it 13:12:29 kilobyte: the issue is that agent is const in that code if I remember correctly 13:12:50 by, I guess you culd say that .. there's only so many thousands of lines I'm willing to code for including this into official version 13:12:59 after that I expect the community to join in 13:14:32 it's not about the amount, it's about the quality 13:14:33 and it is true that its a question of style, and that the choice of style dictates changing the architecture (ie, the class def of all monsters) 13:15:03 kilobyte, if you have a problem with the quality, improve it .. factory smoothness requires factory collaboration 13:15:30 Im not against anyone changing the code 13:15:41 Ive gone so far as to ask specifically doy to implement his change 13:15:56 and Ive asked people generally, in the wiki and here, to join in 13:20:01 its not that big a deal really .. either accept it, or change it. or fork your own version off and add that to trunk instead 13:20:06 I'm trying to be open here 13:20:47 I am implementing content from suggestions almost without question .. I ask but ultimately if someone wants something, its been done .. 100% of suggestions have been implemented 13:21:21 oi .. if you dont count suggestions that other players commented against 13:22:23 Sorry to sound like a jerk, but were all of those suggestions thoroughly discussed? 13:22:24 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:51 monky, :) thats a conversation I prefer really .. no, they certainly werent 13:22:52 I don't know the policy on implementing things willy-nilly, but it sounds like a bad idea. 13:23:24 well okay, but play it.. I mean its hard to judge the success of a thing without play testing it 13:23:38 03dolorous * r613ef74a2fba 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Add minor cosmetic fix. 13:23:40 and that's easy with the dhfh github 13:24:48 // deliberate fall through;break 13:25:05 mon-gear.cc, MONS_DEEP_DWARF_ARTIFICER 13:25:54 blue_anna: what did you mean there? 13:27:07 kilobyte, thanks, that comment I must have missed. the gear is correct currently, just that comment is leftover I guess from a previous edit 13:27:46 I really am looking at the code :) 13:27:55 ARTIFICERS, NECROMANCERS, and UNBORN all get robes 13:28:19 I guess ARTIFICER used to be first or else NECROMANCER was where ARTIFICER is now 13:29:29 cool, makes sense, thanks 13:30:01 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:16 by: your glow solution for Zin is good. 13:30:41 dpeg: ok, thanks -- it's mostly what was currently there 13:30:49 is zin going to start punishing spellcasters and mutators now? 13:31:48 -!- blue_anna has left ##crawl-dev 13:31:50 -!- blue_anna has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:48 blue_anna: don't think so. Just have to be a bit more careful with Zin. He's got his rules. 13:36:54 -!- blue_anna has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:25 -!- blue_anna has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:26 Condensation shield works with two-handed weapons but now if you use a shield, is there a rationale behind this? 13:37:51 s/now/not/ 13:38:31 yes 13:38:39 Shield users already have a shield. :) 13:38:43 joosa, I imagine its supposed to be a physical shield like thingie, just you dont have to wear it on your arm. if you already have a shield, it feels .. I dunno, like you're cheating on it 13:39:21 I guess it makes sense... but it could be an additional (fire-vulnerable) protection just like ozocubu's armour 13:39:42 hm, is ozocubu fire vulnerable? :P 13:39:55 Maybe I played too many demonspawns 13:41:51 Yet TSO's divine shield stacks with your ordinary shield. But it's divine, so it can be whatever TSO wants it to be 13:42:20 As is, condensation shield seems quite useless 13:48:46 I'll continue banging my head against the wall trying to decide what spells to bring with me 13:50:47 03dolorous * rdbc89d710294 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Unify Yred's dead-animating invocations. 13:51:54 (A nice interface to browse and learn spells would help) 13:51:57 -!- Ekaterin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:34 The new memorizing interface is an improvement 13:54:54 Earlier today I thought about Nethack's polymorphing, and it gave me an idea 13:57:03 Say, you have a pile of spellbooks, with many duplicated spells in multiple books 13:58:00 Some way of merging the books and removing duplicates and sorting them into a new set of books would improve a caster's life 13:58:05 fire melts ozo armour yes 13:59:35 I think M works well enough for that sort of thing, though you don't get all information 13:59:48 Manual sorting would be overly abusable though 13:59:54 Yeah, new M is great 14:02:33 in 0.5 you had to select the book 14:03:31 oh 14:03:47 I hated playing casters in 0.5 14:04:19 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:19 i started playing properly in 0.6, though i didn't actually know of M for a while 14:04:59 And in 0.5 M was the only way to learn spells, you couldn't do it if you just read the book 14:05:30 in trunk you can press ! on the M screen to examine spells so you can see what their hunger and such will be 14:05:38 nice 14:05:38 which makes it pretty nice 14:05:52 You still have to get overloaded with books though :P 14:05:58 heh, true 14:08:13 Nowadays I'm keeping one pile of books in which there are the spells currently in use, and other pile for the rest 14:09:01 Thank god there's ^F 14:09:11 s/god/devteam/ 14:09:51 M screen could be improved slightly with different sorting options 14:15:37 it would be nice if M would allow reading from the ground 14:15:44 03by 07squarelos * rf2a836c4bfb1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (41 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into squarelos 14:16:49 it'd be nice if M let you switch to ranger/hunger view 14:18:19 kilobyte: that would be excellent 14:19:09 Range/hunger/success would be displayable in one screen with numbers ;) 14:22:02 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:09 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:55 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:21 Eronarn: that's what you can do with ! 14:27:35 oh well i guess you have to individually examine spells 14:27:46 as opposed to how it displays in the I overview 14:27:47 right, i'm talking a full screen swap, like you get on Z 14:27:50 yeah 14:27:51 With the outgoing characteristic of the game about revealing internals to the player, it seems strange that spell hunger and success are "hidden" behind arbitrary words 14:28:02 that'd be really good 14:28:05 joosa: this is also the case with MR and stealth 14:28:10 and size 14:28:17 and HD/HP/damage aren't shown at all 14:28:18 yeah 14:28:29 size isn't hidden really 14:28:42 You get the corpse wight after killing them :) 14:28:50 each size has a corresponding monster and there's no in-between sizes 14:29:27 Ah, game mechianic sizes 14:30:00 A kobold. It is as big as a kobold. 14:30:03 :( 14:30:14 :) 14:30:34 MarvinPA, its be a neat trick if it wasnt 14:30:36 yes, that does get a little silly (see: various types of dragons 'as big as a dragon', except some dragons are bigger) 14:30:44 ((or smaller)) 14:31:33 this is in some sense a carryover D&Dism 14:31:48 ogres are the smallest giant, and are almost twice the height of a man 14:31:49 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:56 the biggest giants are more than twice as tall as an ogre 14:32:03 instead of size, you could use int mass; 14:32:12 Giants are huge. 14:32:56 if you want to get away from d&d .. use two measures. mass & long_dimension. this works for items as well as creatures (with interesting effects in inventory) 14:33:07 well the monster sizes are distinct and determine what can trample what, don't they? (i'm not sure if they do anything else) 14:33:32 blue_anna: but if we do dimension, what about poor non-metric US players? ;) 14:33:53 also, D&D has the equivalent of 'long_dimension' for determining its sizes anyways 14:33:54 -!- Ekaterin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:34:06 it just pushes the issue back - just how big is a giant? well, that depends on what kind of giant. 14:34:18 does size really affect much in crawl though? 14:34:20 Eronarn, :P learn a real unit of measure? 14:34:36 MarvinPA: not right now, but this is part of attempts to standardize it so that it can be used to affect stuff 14:34:54 monster sizes and weights have been gradually getting tweaked so that we can actually have effects like trample 14:34:57 Eronarn: the dimensions would change whether the monster is in/over water or on/over land. With a third separate one used to "survey". 14:35:10 The unit of dimension would be as arbitrary as the arbitrary unit of mass, I guess' 14:35:11 well there's tiny/small/normal/big/huge now, isn't there? or something like that 14:35:24 there's also little, giant, large 14:35:27 big 14:35:29 It would be there to tell the relative size 14:35:30 oh wait you got that one 14:35:56 joosa: well, we're already doing that with the 'is as big as a X' thing 14:36:06 yeah, I know 14:36:22 though i guess this isn't as much of an issue now, since we did the size revamp 14:36:37 it looks like we no longer have any non-oversized dragons 14:36:44 I just think describing things like that with words is cumbersome and confusing 14:37:03 yeah 14:37:13 i'm not sure arbitrary length units would be better though 14:37:24 maybe 'as tall as X humans' would work though 14:37:38 In the end the player has to find out and learn what they really mean, especially with spell hunger and success 14:37:53 So why not just show the numbers 14:38:02 well, we don't *have* numbers right now 14:38:16 That's another issue, tightly related 14:38:18 I guess you dnot need length/height whatever for trample, just a nice simple size 14:38:31 and maybe also a toughness and viscosity 14:38:42 it would be nice to store morphology characteristics of monsters 14:38:49 trampling an ooze shouldnt do much 14:39:05 like: number of heads, number of arms, body shape, longest dimension, etc. 14:39:07 it would be nice to store all characteristics as mutations 14:39:33 this needn't actually be too complex, since a lo of monsters follow just a handful of body plans 14:39:50 'humanoid', 'ooze', 'quadruped', 'insect' 14:39:56 yeh 14:40:11 'insubstantial' I think thats actually one 14:40:40 blue_anna: i'd use 'formless' 14:40:44 'tentacled monstrosity' 14:40:50 ghosts are insubstantial humanoids 14:40:59 vapours are insubstantial & formless 14:42:03 if we had a nice way to track morphology like this, it would open up stuff like twisted resurrection grabbing specific body parts, or spells that lop off arms, etc. 14:42:12 (or a brand of 'disarming.) 14:42:26 ohhh that would be awesome 14:43:45 we could also store some flags in that way in a somewhat nicer way, i guess 14:44:06 mhmm 14:44:28 should probably make a wiki page for discussing it, and what flags we'd want in there 14:45:07 Nah.... I'll fork DCSS and make it better 14:46:02 random thought: i'd be nice if jiyva slimes eating items deleted them from your stash, since they're 'yours' 14:52:29 does sorear not come on irc anymore 14:53:32 !seen sorear 14:53:32 I last saw sorear at Wed Aug 4 02:29:48 2010 UTC (6w 4d 17h 23m 44s ago) parting ##crawl with message chanpart. 14:57:01 @?spectral warrior 14:57:02 spectral warrior (09W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 33-65 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 1813(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(72), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 542. 14:57:37 syllogism: I bet he'll be back some day. 15:04:00 dpeg: how do you feel about letting jiyvaites create slimy walls? 15:06:22 Eronarn: sounds good to me 15:06:41 The idea could not come up back when we thought about J, as there were no slimy walls. 15:06:50 Would you add it to Jiyva's page? 15:07:43 sure 15:07:46 by the way, love the slime mutations 15:07:51 is there a list of all of them / what they do? 15:07:53 it has AI issues, though 15:08:14 by: they just stand next to it or something? 15:08:18 yes 15:08:31 that seems fine to me if it's a short-duration ability 15:08:39 AI also stands in poison/flame clouds 15:09:08 oh, it is already on there! 15:09:12 yeah, that could also do with small improvements 15:09:25 The ability could be such that walls you or your slimes touch will slimify during the duration. 15:10:16 dpeg: i personally like the idea of it being either a slime mutation, or a piety ability that converts all the walls you're touching 15:10:35 rather than anything at-range 15:11:43 'To make up for lack of stashing, Jiyva could redirect some of the nourishing and healing that fellow slimes get by eating things to the player.' 15:11:47 oh, i like this one 15:13:37 not sure it's enough for endgame though 15:13:51 even though i converted late, and have a very buff character and great items, i'm still getting hurt by the lack of consumables 15:14:38 Eronarn: sure, that's the conduct of going J 15:15:10 jiyva isn't at all powerful enough to make up for the item loss 15:15:17 this is really a novelty character 15:16:14 J is not a temple god 15:17:03 yes, i understand that, but i still think the god is lacking 15:18:04 sure, but it's a wacky idea with a patch by zipcode 15:18:10 so no reason not to take it 15:18:23 with time, the god will improve 15:18:24 right, but i love the flavor, so i would like to see further improvements 15:19:08 if it never reaches the power level of temple gods, that's no serious concern 15:24:34 I will priorite the topics on the J page soon. 15:29:14 -!- Twinge has quit [] 15:34:30 Eronarn: hey, you're not editing it! 15:34:45 dpeg: someone already added it a while ago! 15:35:28 ah! 15:44:52 Slime mutations rule. The eyeballs on your body gaze at the yaktaur. 15:45:53 I dunno man 15:46:02 it seems like all anyone has to do is just throw some salt at you 15:46:07 and you're out of commission 15:46:31 haha 15:49:59 MadCoyote: no natrium chloride in the dungeon 15:50:00 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:50:21 that's too bad 15:50:28 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:29 those ogre chunks could use some salt 15:52:50 that's why nobody eats them unless hungry 15:57:51 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:39:07 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:12 Ogre is tasty when roasted with some hellfire 16:41:57 they's good eatin'. 16:55:04 -!- gamefreak264 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:07:26 03dolorous * rb42436436f1b 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Partially fix the "^" screen description of Yred's unified ability. 17:08:55 Enhancer staves don't identify correctly (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2613) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 17:10:08 03dolorous * r92e23fccbe69 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove now-unused code from adjust_abil_message(). 17:14:16 03dolorous * r71990ee2540b 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Shorten the Yred ability replacement string a bit. 17:38:55 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:16 03dolorous * rde5a35f42bd5 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Add spacing fix. 18:49:23 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:54 03dolorous * rcdcade399b67 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 19:01:21 03dolorous * r7e6fa438f834 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Make _abil_chg_message() properly handle all replacement strings. 19:21:40 03dolorous * r422d2c42f6d1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc religion.cc religion.h): Fxi the rest of the "^" screen description of Yred's unified ability. 19:44:09 03dolorous * rede4753bde74 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Always display ability upgrade messages in the proper sequence. 19:50:01 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:37 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:14:53 Insta-Crash upon load attempt (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2614) by Eckus 20:41:00 -!- gamefreak264 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:40 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:44 -!- blue_anna has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:49 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:09 -!- Zannick has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:18 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:03 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:13 -!- Zannick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]