00:05:23 hmmm 00:05:31 related to the haste nerf 00:05:42 what do people think about removing berserker rage as a spell? 00:06:06 hadn't really thought about that before, but it was brought up on the wiki, and i think it has some merit 00:11:18 -!- tycho__ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:40 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:12:09 also, it's really weird reading peoples' opinions on the wiki 00:12:33 hearing things like how selective amnesia is "extremely powerful" and "inevitably learned by just about everyone" 00:13:13 makes me wonder if these people are even playing the same game as me d: 00:14:18 -!- neunon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:49 all my spellcasters do use amnesia if they have it in a book (which they nearly always do)... I wouldn't call it powerful exactly, but it is a no-brainer 00:19:07 of course, there are lots of no-brainer spells currently 00:19:18 i can't remember ever having memorized selective amnesia in the entire time i've been playing crawl 00:19:52 don't you ever run short on spell levels? 00:19:59 i used sif's forget spell ability a couple times at first, before realizing i didn't care enough 00:20:02 no 00:20:36 interesting, I always run short on spell levels on any light-armour non-trog character I play 00:21:21 what kinds of spells do you not have room for? 00:22:22 it is more that there are always more spells that would be useful 00:22:26 hmmm, i also can't remember the last time i memorized a spell over level 6 00:22:35 other than ood recently 00:22:35 and it is easy enough to get anything below level 6 castable 00:22:47 that might have something to do with it 00:22:50 doy: I nearly never memorize anything over level 6 other than controlled blink 00:23:20 hmmm, yeah, i have memorized controlled blink too 00:23:46 I do go for a lot of level 2-5 spells 00:23:53 !log ktyp=winning 00:23:54 25. doy, XL27 SEAs, T:108683: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/doy/morgue-doy-20100824-041454.txt 00:23:57 !log ktyp=winning -2 00:23:57 24. doy, XL27 MfCr, T:217799: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/doy/morgue-doy-20100820-050526.txt 00:25:14 probably it is because my casters always take all the good ench/tloc/necro spells 00:25:27 and if I am a conjurer then I have some conjurations too... 00:25:27 that one i just picked up dmsl at the end for the heck of it, because i had slots left and couldn't think of anything else to use them on 00:25:34 i don't think i even cast it at all 00:25:49 !log ktyp=winning -3 00:25:49 23. doy, XL27 DSVM, T:170673: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/doy/morgue-doy-20100806-070539.txt 00:26:23 heh, that one i did mostly enchantment-less, for the heck of it 00:26:27 !log . 00:26:28 673. elliptic, XL25 NaSt, T:73358: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/elliptic/morgue-elliptic-20100913-102601.txt 00:26:45 that's a fairly typical spell list for me 00:27:01 I had to forget stuff like meph and poisonous cloud to get it 00:27:13 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:29 not to mention forgetting the stalker junk I picked up early game (sting, poison weapon, sure blade) 00:27:42 and I didn't even find controlled blink or borg that game... 00:27:55 yeah, i've never really bothered with flight, dispel undead, invisibility, or dmsl 00:28:04 they're all so special-purpose 00:28:14 I only got DMsl for zot 00:28:16 doesn't seem all that worth it 00:28:24 I don't bother with it before then either 00:28:43 (it also isn't a top priority for zot) 00:28:53 and invisibility is just for stabbers of course 00:28:58 on the other hand, your win ratio is much higher than mine, so maybe i shouldn't be talking that much(: 00:29:03 but still 00:29:14 flight + swiftness is really good 00:29:33 true 00:29:36 I always take selective amnesia too 00:30:19 I dont think it's strictly necessary, just very convenient 00:30:39 I remember on that NaSt I was really happy to get selective amnesia since it immediately freed up about 6 spell levels 00:31:03 and I had stuff I wanted to learn (regeneration, repel missiles) 00:31:09 I also like to play pure caster type characters (relying on conjurations to kill everything), and with those, selective amnesia is important because low level spells become worthless 00:31:23 And you really tend to want to free up space to cast L9 stuff 00:32:09 I don't go for L9 stuff but being able to clear 12 levels for phase shift + controlled blink when I find book of the warp is nice 00:32:23 heh yeah 00:32:42 I actually think removing SA and replacing it with say, a scroll of amnesia would be great, because that's 4 extra spell levels 00:32:42 L9 stuff is really only relevant for extended endgame, and i don't typically do conjurers for that 00:32:48 shrug 00:33:39 I like the idea of a fairly rare selective amnesia scroll also 00:33:54 yes, selective amnesia absolutely shouldn't be a spell 00:34:18 probably should be about as rare as enchant armour, or something along those lines 00:35:07 more rare IMO 00:35:17 yeah, i'd say about half that rare would be good 00:35:26 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:29 or, twice as rare? 00:35:31 as rare as acquirement even maybe 00:35:32 you know what i mean 00:35:33 (: 00:35:55 yeah 00:36:04 we don't want to annoy trogites too much by having useless scrolls be too common for them ;) 00:36:26 -!- Giomancer has left ##crawl-dev 00:36:29 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:43 (: 00:39:03 -!- Spray has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:39 -!- Spray is now known as MadCoyote 00:55:45 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:28 Twinge_! Do you read the mailing list? 00:58:53 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:48 03dolorous * rbf85da2f4cf0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc mon-stuff.cc): Simplify and consolidate zombie messages from chaos effects and reaping. 01:11:27 @??electric golem 01:11:28 electric golem (118) | Speed: 20 | HD: 15 | Health: 114-151 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Damage: 1511(elec:15-21), 1511(elec:15-21), 15, 15 | Flags: 11non-living, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++ | XP: 5607 | Sp: b.lightning (3d20), blink. 01:21:42 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:26 03dolorous * r2596508c75b3 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 01:22:38 YAY MINOR COSMETIC FIX#ES! :D 01:22:42 i've missed them 01:25:45 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:haste_nerf i collected some of the ideas here 01:29:28 Okay! 01:29:32 The mecchanism of spiritsworks. 01:29:42 They're basicaly constantly fleeing, but quite slow... they have no attacks, but they do blink. 01:31:12 03dolorous * r217327d66fbd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc mon-stuff.cc): Revert "Simplify and consolidate zombie messages from chaos effects and reaping." 01:31:18 03dolorous * rc8fc00f195b8 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Make the zombification message from chaos effects match the reaping one. 01:34:00 what do spirits do? 01:35:29 p. Alternative spirits. Weak monster by itself, comes alone (there may be other holies around, but p is not a pack monster). Does not try to attack the player, actually evades him. (So normal/slow speed plus blink would work.) If left alone for too long, calls a permanent top tier holy monster. You can see how close it is to having achieved that. 01:35:36 dies and summons a monster after a certain amount of time 01:37:33 03dolorous * rc105c3c209a5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Add more minor cosmetic fixes. 01:40:05 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:04 what do you guys think about making the A glyph both angels and avians? holies get the lighter colours (white/yellow/red(pheonix)) and birds get the darker ones (green(harpies)/lightblue(kenku)) 01:43:46 H is really crowded is the reason I thought about it 01:44:21 A would get pretty crowded, should there be any more kenku monsters 01:44:27 I'm absolutely for moving phoenixx to A 01:44:30 thank you for the suggestion 01:44:40 well, maybe convoluted is a better word than crowded 01:45:11 H kind of seems like "well where else can this go?" 01:45:16 phoenixes with angels is a reason not to do this, actually 01:45:26 could put birds on I and ice beasts on Y 01:46:40 that sounds good too 01:46:49 what's wrong with phoenixes with angels? 01:47:05 they're pretty different 01:50:37 Different idea for spirits: Perhaps, instead of summoning stuff they only appear with other holy creatures, 01:50:39 gah 01:50:50 Different idea for spirits: Perhaps, instead of summoning stuff, they only appear with other holy creatures, giving passive boosts to them by existing? 01:51:09 Or combine the two? 01:52:01 think of them more like a phoenix 01:52:08 when they finally die, theey're reborn as a top-tier monster 01:52:40 -!- tycho__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:49 Yeah, I've read the original angelic beings page 01:54:28 them buffing otheer holies doesn't work with the fleeing-attitude that i just spent two hours getting to work. ): 01:55:00 could give the buffing thing to one of the boringer undead 01:55:09 Well, they could buff the other holies just by being on the same level 01:56:03 Which would fit very well with fleeing. 01:56:05 i don't like it, sorry 01:56:17 Fair enough, just thought I'd throw it out there. 01:56:25 spirits have been reimagined a couple of times 01:56:30 the onie i'm coding right now is dpeg's idea 02:02:28 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:00 hm 02:07:03 i need a countdown 02:07:35 5 02:07:36 4 02:07:37 3 02:07:38 2 02:07:38 1 02:07:43 :| 02:10:29 I really like that wasp god and the wisp god 02:14:36 You mean Nemelex? *rimshot* 02:15:03 I'll... try to stop saying useless stuff 02:15:32 dtsund: great idea 02:19:50 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:23 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 02:53:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:39 -!- evilmike has quit [] 03:15:07 movement speed might also need a bit of tweaking if haste is nerfed as planned 03:15:23 how so? 03:15:33 or do we want player spriggan to be able to run from hasted orc wizards? 03:16:00 hmmm 03:17:25 point that out on the wiki page(: 03:17:33 will do 03:17:38 ??centaur 03:17:38 centaur[1/3]: These enemies are infamous for carrying bows and showing up at the worst times from afar, as well as occasionally carrying ego bows or arrows. Oddly enough, this monster refuses to attack PCs when other monsters are in the way. Somewhat easier to kill in melee, but recently buffed, so be wary. 03:17:42 ??centaur[2] 03:17:42 centaur[2/3]: Conjurers note: Centaurs can be reliably killed with a single hit from bolt of fire/cold, and do not shoot when confused. 03:17:44 ??centaur[3] 03:17:45 centaur[3/3]: Half-human, half-horse, all eating machine. Second only to spriggans in speed, and trolls in food consumption. Like Nagas, requires special armour for best performance; a good way to get it is playing any other type of character. 03:17:50 ??movement speed 03:17:50 I don't have a page labeled movement_speed in my learndb. 03:18:06 ??move delay 03:18:06 move delay[1/2]: 10 by default. Boots of running lower this by 2. The quickness mutations lower this; level 1 by 2, level 2 by 3, and level 3 by 4. Centaurs start with the second level, Spriggans with the third. The minimum is 6. delay = 100/speed. 03:20:35 so centaurs would be slower still 03:21:01 maybe speed mutations should be -1/-2/-3? 03:23:53 that's what I thought, yes 03:24:08 and perhaps swift+fly also -3 03:24:54 I guess the rounding issues could be addressed just with div_rand_round? 03:25:27 yeah, that was my initial thought 03:25:30 although really 03:25:55 how hard would it be to convert players to use the monster energy/delay system? 03:26:28 i guess probably not something we want to do at the same time we're rebalancing the speed system 03:28:19 I haven't thought about it, but I don't think it should be that hard 03:28:44 that would give us a lot finer granularity 03:28:58 it would mean tearing up _input a bit more I guess 03:31:23 right now, if the player is hasted, monsters get a chance to react after every player move 03:32:03 the way the monster action loop goes, the player would get to use up their energy before the monsters reacted 03:32:18 hmmm 03:32:36 but we could just have the basic loop advance by ticks I guess? 03:32:57 yeah 03:33:25 ok, maybe it's a bit more work :) 03:33:53 why can't we just keep a list of actors sorted by the size of their energy pool 03:34:11 and just always give the highest-energy actor a chance to move 03:34:52 sure 03:35:12 but we don't want to call in_a_cloud for every tick and give a one-tick cloud damage, etc 03:35:14 that seems the most straightforward, although it's true that i don't know how this would interact with the actual input loop 03:35:17 (: 03:36:32 it might work quite well (just call most of world_reacts after player acts as usual), but it's not that clear to me 03:37:01 i think having one measurement of speed would simplify things conceptually anyway 03:37:13 the monster speed vs player speed difference was always pretty weird 03:37:56 it does sound like a good thing to do before 03:38:09 *the haste nerf 03:38:21 yeah, that's something we can do now, while the details of the haste nerf are being worked out 03:38:35 then once we come to some decisions there, hopefully the bugs will have been worked out 03:38:38 (: 03:40:04 speaking of experimental mechanics changes, i should give the square_los thing a shot 03:40:16 (at some point when it isn't 4:30am, that is) 03:40:59 * due cries 03:41:06 square los will break everything and make it uggly noooes 03:44:25 I didn't really notice it was square while playing 03:45:00 it's already in? 03:45:01 or rather that "it's square and that's ugly" 03:45:15 yes on CDO right now 03:45:19 due: the branch is up on cdo for testing 03:45:21 oh 03:45:24 there's a branch, right 03:46:02 :| 03:46:39 it's not so bad i guess 03:46:58 -!- mruuuu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:51 if LOS remains less like now the viewport could be shrunk by two rows for more message space 03:48:26 I guess you would need to lessen the monster list too though... 03:54:31 -!- mruuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:58 um 03:58:01 where is ENCH_FADING_AWAY handled? 03:58:10 oh 03:58:11 it's not 03:58:28 * due stupid. 03:58:32 Was grepping for the wrong thing. 04:16:35 03by * rd61fb69e84cc 10/crawl-ref/source/stairs.cc: Update stair info before viewwindow() when taking stairs. 04:18:09 03by 07squarelos * rb70a56b41084 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into squarelos 04:21:43 is that why dtair colouring was a off recently? that was bugging me 04:29:40 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:48 heh, it does feel weird to not be able to adjust the path you take when chasing fleeing monsters to get them in range for another shot 04:36:51 (: 04:45:02 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:56 hi mu 05:45:05 i think it's ugly 05:45:08 but not as guly as i thought 05:52:57 hi 05:52:59 st_: yes, I think so (though you may mean a different issue than what I fixed) 05:53:14 due: by now, I think both are ugly 06:22:41 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:22 by: could you have a look at the commit i pushed through for gloom? I'm not sure if I've fucked up lots of stuff. 06:31:23 I briefly looked it over and it didn't seem to do anything obviously wrong 06:31:32 excellent 06:31:37 i.e., if something doesn't work it's just a small bug that's easy to fix 06:31:49 i also fixed wizmode detect creatures not lighting monsters up 06:32:57 the idea was to make wizard mode detect creatures show the monster in proper colour, but that was broken by the map knowledge stuff and would probably need an extra flag 06:38:10 ah 06:38:30 well, i at least got them working in red, which works a little bit better. 06:51:35 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:07 03by * rdb5d9065f95d 10/crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc: Revert "Fix a dgamelaunch compile warning." 06:57:24 -!- monky has quit [Quit: GOODBYE] 06:58:19 can I reorder monster_info_flags? 07:07:05 not without taking care of save compatibility 07:10:47 hm 07:14:23 why do you want to reorder the flags? 07:19:39 I want to add one 07:23:40 just add it at the end 07:23:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:24:22 you can do #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION magic if you want it to be in a better place when major version gets bumped 07:26:43 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:41 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:35 sure 08:04:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:49 also 08:06:52 los_iterator will be broken 08:07:47 when? why? 08:08:05 the Lua implementation i mean 08:08:09 it works off a circular range 08:08:15 actually 08:08:17 it doesn't 08:08:20 ignore me 08:08:32 (it actually works off an 8*8 square and tests for LOS) 08:09:16 at least autofight.lua is broken because of los reduction; I don't know if it uses any of that, though 08:10:20 could you add this to the wiki page? 08:12:43 ya 08:12:48 sorry wrong channel 08:17:55 Trowel cards taking the player to an empty level (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2581) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 08:23:04 should just remove trowel 08:38:02 Passwalling during teleportation causes you to snap back to passwall location (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2582) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 08:51:11 seem to remember this issue, but maybe it wasn't filed? 08:52:15 yeah, i spotted it on the wiki passwall page 08:52:31 you asked someone to file it and it appears they didn't :P 08:53:26 ah, thanks! 08:54:07 relatedly, should monsters trampling you away interrupt passwall? 08:54:32 I guess we could just say position change during passwall meditation interrupts the passwall delay 08:54:41 yeah, that would probably be reasonable 09:03:49 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:12 03by * ra11d1da32287 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Make wield mass check apply to all items. 09:06:13 03by * rd15c910ecacf 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h spl-damage.cc spl-damage.h zap-data.h): Make large rocks do extra damage with sandblast. 09:06:14 03by * r02eede0506c6 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Allow swapping to large rocks when sandblast is memorised. 09:23:42 extra damage as in the same damage as stones do or higher 09:24:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:03 I suppose I can check 09:24:12 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 09:24:12 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:15 it's 3d20 max instead of 2d20 max 09:24:18 hey dev 09:24:20 they used to do the same before 09:24:24 03by * r69689ea3b27b 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Make the wield mass check less harsh for non-weapons. 09:24:25 hello bmh 09:24:52 sorry about my confused e-mail regarding tiles licensing -- I think CC0 is a great idea :-D 09:39:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:26 used staircases on old level not properly updated in map knowledge (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2583) by rob 09:48:51 bmh: don't worry 09:49:42 also, now I live in London, so CDO should be faster :-D 09:53:31 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:13 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:09:23 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:00 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:34 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:47 is there a particular reason petrify is ench/earth instead of tmut/earth? 10:28:25 no, it should be changed :( 10:28:57 so stalkers can change into awesome tmut stabbers 10:29:08 maybe it was done because it's in stalking 10:29:36 maybe, the stalker spellbook is pretty lame though 10:29:39 yeah it was, it should be tmut though 10:29:46 so should regeneration :P 10:31:10 i like tgw's stalker spellbook suggestion anyway, i keep meaning to look at the code and see how hard it is to mess with backgrounds 10:31:25 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 10:32:54 yeah, maybe I should just implement that 10:33:41 Enchant armour scroll is wasted if armour is melded (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2584) by 78291 10:33:43 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:20 not sure if maybe it needs something above level 4 10:34:45 but it's got a good theme and i've enjoyed playing tmut stabbers when i've tried it 10:36:07 you can do just about anything but maybe branch ends and zot:5 with the first four spells 10:36:22 ignite poison would go nice with evap, not sure it's thematic though :p 10:36:27 heh, yeah probably 10:36:34 or does it blow them up in your inventory too 10:36:36 oh, dig is level 4 too, thought that was 5 10:36:39 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:42 and then you can branch into necromancy or various other things from there quite nicely 10:36:54 ignite poison would be thematic but yeah, i think it blows up your inventory 10:37:03 air and necro have up to 4 too 10:37:04 (which is silly, maybe it shouldn't) 10:37:28 since it's way too situational and hard to cast anyway 10:37:35 ??book of stalking 10:37:35 book of stalking[1/1]: Spells: sting, sure blade, projected noise, mephitic cloud, poison weapon, petrify, invisibility. 10:37:52 reducing ignite poison's level would be nice imo 10:38:03 would any of these become too rare if they go from stalking? 10:38:08 shame they lose invis though, seems more thematic to a stalker than an enchanter 10:38:14 what else is sure blade in 10:38:33 tukima 10:38:45 and projected noise is only in party tricks 10:39:00 could make a book of ex-stalking 10:39:22 what about petrify? 10:39:29 petrify would stay 10:39:34 petrify's in hinderance 10:39:35 oh right 10:39:43 and new stalkers would get it, yeah 10:39:51 that would make hinderance not ench only, but that doesn't really matter 10:40:25 also I think projected noise and sure blade being so rare isn't much of a problem 10:40:40 book of the ninja 10:40:49 ninja class 10:46:38 any suggestions for a brief stalker description? 10:46:45 Stalkers are ready to stab with robe, cloak and a good weapon. They augment stealth with magic and start with the Sting spell to poison enemies. 10:49:26 Stalkers are ready to stab, approaching and disabling their victims with shape-changing magic. 10:49:29 ? 10:49:39 Stalkers use transformative magic to disable their enemies and manipulate the environment, something something 10:49:39 yeah 10:51:29 "Stalkers use transformative magic to disable their enemies and manipulate the environment, then stab their helpless foes." 10:51:53 or what you said, something along those lines anyway :P 10:52:11 it's better without the stabbing part 10:53:03 just "Stalkers approach and disable their victims with transformative magic." ? 10:54:20 I meant marvin's, though I like yours better like that too 10:54:56 maybe "stealth and transformative magic" 10:55:38 Stalkers use stealth and transformative magic to approach and disable their enemies. 10:56:08 (I like that "approach" covers both passwall and dig) 10:56:18 yeah, that sounds good 10:56:20 to approach and subdue their hapless victims. :P 10:57:10 Mu_: is that a serious suggestion? sounds good to me 10:57:16 ye! 10:57:19 no 10:57:31 your last sounds good to me 10:57:32 maybe just "approch and subdue their victims" 10:57:36 keep it simple 10:57:41 it doesn't need to be overdramatic :P 10:58:23 "subdue" sounds like creepy things are about to happen 10:58:41 they are stalkers after all 10:58:50 tgw did think of it after all 10:59:32 i'd just use the word transmutations instead of transformative magic ?? 11:01:31 spelling out "spells" or "magic" is closer to the style of the other descriptions 11:01:38 ahh 11:04:45 03by * r768b600e1eb4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Stalkers as transmutations-based stabbers. 11:05:08 awesome :) 11:05:26 i'll try them out when my ogre inevitably dies 11:05:28 * st_ plans on a SESt 11:05:45 03by 07squarelos * r24a2a28cf376 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into squarelos 11:06:05 is squarelos gonna happen ? 11:06:36 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 11:06:41 i wonder if that'll affect any vaults 11:07:01 it's bound to 11:08:13 Mu_: it's live on cdo now in case you didn't notice, and yes, pretty likely to affect vaults 11:08:52 "Enchanted forest" ending for Lair (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2585) by minmay 11:08:55 it would be nice if you could get more than one sandblast out of a large rock but I suppose there's no way to do that currently 11:09:03 unless it just lowers enchantment but that wouldn't help much 11:09:27 i was thinking that mechanic might make bone shards a bit less terrible too, actually 11:09:38 letting you get more uses out of bigger skeletons 11:10:12 we could put weight into the item as a property and reduce that 11:10:31 Unstable branch (squarelos)on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-1247-g24a2a28 (30.1) 11:10:59 oh that would work 11:11:12 it could affect how many stones the large rocks smash into too 11:11:15 but then you'd have to take weight into account in ranged combat 11:12:08 I guess you could make them always break 11:12:50 Have people used bone shards at all recently? I did patch in a buff for it several months ago, but it's quite possible that it's still nearly useless :P Multiple uses based on size wouldn't be a bad idea, at any rate, though perhaps a bit clunky in implementation 11:13:14 yes, having "same" items differ in some property seems problematic 11:13:24 i gave it a go recently and yeah, the interface for it is just so much effort to get past 11:13:31 and the damage still seemed low 11:13:35 blood and chunks do it currently 11:15:44 The damage shouldn't be TOO impressive, since it's a single-school spell dealing direct damage and a school that does not deal direct damage as a primary option, but it should be good enough to use sometimes. 11:15:52 IIRC there were some talks about streamlining the interface annoyances with it, though I forget the specifics offhand 11:16:24 right, i was using it by summoning corpses with kiku, using corpse rot to make skeletons, apporting them, picking them up, wielding them, then casting it 11:16:32 which is like 20 steps for one spell 11:17:04 and it did only half decent damage :p 11:19:42 mid-weight skeletons deal about as much as Throw Icicle 11:20:11 yeah, i mean it's decentish damage and it's a bolt 11:20:19 but you get one cast for all that effort :P 11:20:23 Yep 11:20:34 just scratch it and replace it with bolt of inaccuracy :p 11:21:15 ...Also, what happened to https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:monster:experience ? There were still monsters on the list that hadn't been patched in, unless someone added them recently? 11:21:21 @??Norbert 11:21:22 unknown monster: "Norbert" 11:21:24 could add a new item type for "bone pieces" or something 11:21:27 norbert was removed :P 11:21:31 Hah 11:21:39 and have casting bone shards with a skeleton reduce the skeleton to bone pieces 11:21:54 and you could cast it with those but it'd be weaker? 11:22:02 base the number generated on number of chunks or something 11:22:11 MarvinPA: wouldn't really even have to be weaker, probably 11:22:12 Well, he was the most egregious exp offender that I remember. I don't remember the others though :/ 11:22:18 mm yeah, true 11:22:58 that sounds like a better idea than most of the stuff we could come up with on the wiki page, at least :P 11:24:00 Oh right, the main interface change suggested was making it so you did not have to weild the skeletons, which is still a good idea 11:28:31 If the spell isn't removed, of course. 11:28:32 well, feel free to add that idea to the wiki then 11:28:33 (: 11:29:02 doy: It's been on there since March :P 11:29:38 Twinge: was talking to MarvinPA d: 11:29:59 heh ok, i'll add it to the page 11:30:42 doy: Ah, right... 11:32:37 sandblast isn't too annoying, which has to do with stones stacking 11:33:05 Still curious about the exp page. I guess someone probably just deleted it to cleanup assuming it was done with - which isn't a bad assumption, since it had been there a while and I was the only one doing anyhting with it (and I haven't really been active since April or so). Hmm. 11:33:17 sandblast is annoying because you can't wield 2 stones 11:33:25 without dropping the rest 11:33:59 why would you want to? 11:34:07 to save a turn unwielding? 11:34:12 to fire off a couple of sandblasts then start meleeing 11:34:28 oh 11:34:32 that never even occurred to me 11:34:37 we could make the last stone cause an extra delay if that's really an issue 11:34:46 it doesn't take a turn to switch anyway? 11:35:28 but surely it's just planning ahead to do this kind of thing 11:35:58 and an extra delay will punish those who want to use their last rock then run for instance 11:37:25 I'll see if knowing this strategy will bother me next time I Play EE 11:38:36 -!- hashc has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:39:25 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:01 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:38 -!- Vandal has quit [] 12:13:53 gretell isn't giving stats for trunk simulacrum 12:13:57 @??harpy simulacrum 12:14:04 @?harpy simulacrum 12:14:04 harpy simulacrum (12Z) | Speed: 23 | HD: 7 | Health: 9-33 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 1512(cold:7-20), 1112(cold:7-20) | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(6), 12cold+++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 304. 12:18:19 I think it's due to their (flashing) colours, Mennas and hellions don't work for @?? either 12:19:30 if it was figuring out the colours by parsing colour.cc, that'll have broken 12:19:34 because i rewrote that 12:28:45 i'd prefer if we just made sandblast fire from the inventory :) 12:29:08 would it ask every time? 12:30:43 just make it automatically use stones, unless you have a large stone or multiple stacks of stones 12:31:05 i don't think wielding stones with sandblast is a big deal really 12:31:14 it isn't yeah 12:31:19 although casmith's point about just wanting to wield a couple then going back to melee is interesting 12:31:21 Eronarn: that would be bad 12:31:23 MarvinPA: it's pretty annoying 12:31:29 I don't want to waste stones on rats 12:31:31 especially with unarmed 12:31:38 it's not annoying at all 12:31:39 oh yeah that too, you want to cast it stoneless quite often 12:31:46 Eronarn: are you swapping with '? 12:32:00 i mean the time constraint on swapping, the interface isn't too bad 12:32:09 uhuh 12:32:15 swapping is still a fast action isn't it? 12:32:30 fast, but not instantaneous 12:33:30 i don't think that's the problem with sandblast anyway 12:33:39 the problem is EE has to use all their stones on D:1 just to kill cockroaches 12:34:01 well, i think it's 'a' problem :) 12:34:12 though the problem is worse for bone shards 12:34:36 why is bone shards necromancy anyway 12:34:50 because crawl's schools aren't well designed :P 12:34:56 so necromancy has an attack spell i guess 12:34:59 It'd make as much sense to be air/tmut 12:35:08 shard the bones and gust them into things 12:40:12 switching to and from stones really isn't a problem 12:40:31 sublimation of blood is also quite usable 12:41:38 yes, because it's really really powerful :P 12:41:45 i'm fine with requiring wielded chunks there 12:42:08 so is sandblast 12:42:30 early EEs as a whole aren't, though 12:42:46 and they're likely to be the only ones to rely on sandblast in that way 12:42:57 I'm having no problem with OgEE, and those aren't really made for it 12:54:02 03dolorous * r67abf6bb033c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc mon-act.cc spl-summoning.cc): Simplify. 13:10:04 i just got shafted into a disconnected bubble in orc 13:12:06 how many levels did you fall? 13:12:14 1 13:12:40 [19:11] orc 1 to 2 [19:11] there's an up staircase back to orc 1 [19:11] but nothing there 13:12:46 (from ##crawl) 13:13:04 give by a copy of your save then, i guess 13:13:10 yeah, i'll stick it on mantis 13:13:38 MarvinPA: I reopened #218 13:13:47 aha ok 13:14:12 it'd be good to have your save anyway 13:14:34 yep, done 13:15:46 thanks 13:18:15 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:11 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:16 Evenings! 13:19:16 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:19:38 !messages 13:19:39 (1/1) Napkin said (1d 8h 29m 35s ago): Akalabeth rules :D 13:20:12 reading up on the blog, eino ;) 13:20:22 fun, fun, fun - love how the guy writes :D 13:22:51 Yeah, I've played Akalabeth and it doesn't rule :] 13:23:22 I've been moving a lot of things around in the wiki, esp. consolidating feedback to brainstorm, so if anyone wonders where some page might have disappeared, that's been it 13:23:46 I don't have the heart just now to try to combine the Jiyva pages though, both are big lists of comments with lots of stuff. :P 13:24:58 Keskitalo: well, in dosbox with hq3x everything looks awesome :D 13:26:30 Graphics filters in emulators are interesting.. they can make things look neat, but they aren't "authentic".. but then often the plain pixeled look isn't authentic either because TVs usually distorted the picture nicely 13:29:37 Napkin: Where are you at in the blog? There's a lot of good posts :) 13:32:51 -!- OG17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:09 03by 07squarelos * rfdb3a3843504 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: Adapt excludes to square LOS. 13:41:29 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:38 03dolorous * re52128f7e372 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Preserve the M_FIGHTER and M_ARCHER flags along with M_TWOWEAPON. 13:52:04 03dolorous * re0acc2d43a06 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Clean up enslaved intact souls a bit more. 13:53:23 Keskitalo: Ah, so that's where the page I was looking for went =) I was afraid someone deleted it 13:54:18 Ah yeah, your experience page was one of them. :) 14:05:27 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3332877&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=69#post382057967 14:06:16 That, plus that you could also throw the rock, plus make it combo with Portal Projectile :] 14:14:11 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:24:08 03dolorous * rc856ca52bc3f 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Simplify further. 14:47:26 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:50 03dolorous * rce768fa46d2c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Properly disable MF_FIGHTER and MF_ARCHER for newly defined zombies. 15:27:16 03dolorous * r1b88e0b9ebcb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h godabil.cc mon-place.cc): Reorganize the flags enum when binary compatibility breaks. 15:46:18 03kilobyte * r764b2ca20663 10/crawl-ref/source/areas.cc: Fix a rounding error to make TSO halo look better. 15:47:59 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:49:39 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 15:59:38 03dolorous * r7dc092ad2f77 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc godabil.h): Remove now-unused parameters from yred_make_enslaved_soul(). 16:13:34 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:25 -!- mruuuu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:20:03 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 16:24:56 -!- mruuuuu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:43 Better support for higher resolutions (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2586) by wesleyshaver 16:36:01 03dolorous * red74f85d62b5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Add spacing fixes. 16:43:28 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:54:31 03dolorous * rf38ef2ba31de 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Add another spacing fix. 17:05:13 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:11:38 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 17:12:06 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:54 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:41 -!- upsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:37 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:26 random thought: a trove asking me for a randart i've already seen at a store, selling for 1392, is probably a bit too cheap when the normal entry is over 4k :P 17:50:41 you gambled and won! 17:51:12 eventually i don't think they'll have a normal entry fee 17:51:18 they already don't in trunk 17:51:25 well then 17:52:32 cheap? 17:52:47 unless you're talking about trunk 17:53:23 i've been able to get into a trove from a pair of cure mut potions, not much more than 100-200 total 17:53:36 hard to find though 17:53:55 I got asked one junky weapon that cost like 500 in one game 17:54:03 and the trove had nothing useful :( 17:54:05 most of the time i find the things in store 17:54:09 stores 17:54:20 the first time i already knew of them 17:54:38 the second time, the cure muts, i saw one in a store, and was patiently awaiting finding another 18:18:17 -!- chamons has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:29 good afternoon - If anyone here has submitted changes to the tiles in crawl and hasn't seen the license post on crawl-ref-discuss please poke me 18:39:54 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:40:12 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:16 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:17 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:18 @??tarantella 18:52:19 tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 813(confuse) | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+contam | XP: 90. 18:52:28 @??giant scorpion 18:52:28 giant scorpion (15s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 43-79 | AC/EV: 5/8 | Damage: 3005(strong poison), 11, 11 | Res: 06magic(44) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+contam | XP: 898. 18:52:35 dang 18:52:59 @??jumping spider 18:52:59 jumping spider (12s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 5 | Health: 16-38 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Damage: 1604(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+contam | XP: 146 | Sp: blink close, blink away. 19:03:28 -!- chamons has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:29:49 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:13 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:54 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:17 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:41 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:05:28 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:34 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:31 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:55 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:44 i just died in swamp 5 because scroll of blinking lets you blink onto deep water without any warning 20:18:48 this is very uncol 20:19:12 -!- chamons has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:41 Napkin - are you non-idle ; or is anyone who has admin access on Mantis around? 20:19:59 Eronarn: yet another thing that's been fixed in trunk 20:20:04 you should play on cdo! 20:20:05 (: 20:20:16 i think after that i'm going to not play crawl for a long while 20:21:03 ): 20:21:07 Also, hi. 20:21:31 aw 20:21:45 greensnark: are you available, I'd like to chat about my tiles licensing project 20:21:52 btw, hello everyone /bow 20:23:15 well, since everyone is currently away, i'll just post my request and hope that someone will see it 20:23:57 I'm trying to contact those who have touched the graphical tiles in crawl, two of the members on my list have no e-mail listed but are on Mantis: Porkchop and minmay 20:24:04 doy: I'm curious, why are you broadcasting your game on termcast? 20:24:27 upsy: why not? 20:24:32 please either send me their e-mail chris dot hamons at gmail dot com so I can contact them, or sent them to me (or the crawl-dev-ref message) 20:24:35 thanks 20:24:46 -!- enne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:15 -!- enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:44 doy: redundancy :) 20:26:05 i typically just broadcast whatever i'm doing on termcast 20:26:13 at the moment, i happen to be playing crawl 20:26:13 ah ok 20:26:14 (: 20:26:28 i don't usually see it on the list 20:28:49 i haven't for the past couple weeks, since i was being lazy about setting it up on my new computer 20:29:03 -!- murphy_slaw__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:23 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:31:50 -!- chamons has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:32:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:35 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:33:38 -!- murphy_slaw__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:56:20 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:33 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:25 Zin does not appreciate minor glow (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2587) by BirdoPrey 21:52:05 -!- Vandal has quit [] 21:59:29 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:36 Zin piety loss from glow is inconsistent (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2588) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 22:21:28 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:22 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:49 ??hunger 22:58:50 hunger[1/2]: Obviously, you can't go on without food for too long. In most cases, eating fixes this. Dead: 0. Starving: 1-1000. Near starving: 1001-1533. Very hungry: 1534-2066. Hungry: 2067-2600. Satiated (blank): 2601-7000. Full: 7001-9000. Very full: 9001-11000. Engorged: 11001-12000. Perhaps you wanted to know about {spell hunger}? 22:58:55 DPEG! 22:58:59 Hi~ 22:59:00 Spirits are almost done. :D 22:59:04 erm, hi! 22:59:19 due: sounds great! 23:00:45 I cannot really read what you write. 23:00:52 This is a quite fucked up terminal. 23:00:56 Put glasses on? 23:01:00 :P 23:01:25 I only get a single line that displays changes. All the other 23 lines are unchanged. 23:02:07 Aw, poor dpeg. 23:02:10 I wanted to know that additional hungering of the large species. 23:02:17 Do you know them? 23:02:44 ??hunger[2] 23:02:44 hunger[2/2]: Be warned, you don't always faint before you starve to death. 23:02:51 Hm, can't remember. 23:03:07 I'll try to look them up. 23:04:36 dpeg: i started outlining haste nerf ideas on the wiki, by the way 23:06:17 doy: yes I saw. Awesome! 23:06:30 Can you give me a pointer where I can find the hunger numbers? 23:07:42 ??base hunger 23:07:43 I don't have a page labeled base_hunger in my learndb. 23:07:47 -!- Iainuki has quit [Quit: Iainuki] 23:08:59 if i remember correctly off the top of my head, ogres are 4, centaurs are 5, and trolls are 9 23:09:07 but i could just be making that up 23:09:18 ??sustenance 23:09:21 sustenance[1/2]: Reduces hunger by 2 points per turn to a minimum of 1 (default is 3 for most races). Cancels out the added hungering caused by a ring of regeneration. No effect on spriggans, unless they're extra hungry for some reason. 23:09:36 ??sustenance[2] 23:09:36 sustenance[2/2]: Works for vampires, in case you were wondering. 23:10:50 ??metabolism 23:10:50 I don't have a page labeled metabolism in my learndb. 23:11:00 ??fast_metabolism 23:11:00 fast metabolism[1/1]: Mutation that makes you hunger faster by 1 per level of mutation (default rate is 3 for most races). 23:11:20 ogres have fast metabolism 1 only? 23:12:25 kilobyte mentioned base hunger of 15 for trolls IIRC 23:13:09 !tell kilobyte Could you !tell me the innate hunger rates per turn for Sp, Ce, Na, Og, Tr? Thank you! 23:13:09 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:14:28 dpeg: yes, my numbers were right 23:14:39 (and spriggan is 1, everything else is 3) 23:14:45 oh, halfling is 2 23:15:31 <3ling more like it 23:28:03 okay, see you another time, with a better terminal 23:28:22 ciao 23:28:35 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:40 the main downside to coding new spells and shit 23:36:43 long compile times :( 23:45:32 what happened to the view circles... I mean... the game seems to handle visual range as rectangle now. is that intended or just a bug in trunk? 23:45:52 bug, they're supposed to be hexes 23:46:13 (intentional - see wiki for details) 23:51:08 blackpenguin: we're trying out square LOS in trunk in order to solve some issues 23:53:09 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:54 I see. 23:56:40 random thought: i would like to see a low-level nec/sum spell that summons body parts 23:59:57 why?