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00:02:47 <Eronarn> i am seriously impressed by how fast crawl development is moving
00:02:56 <Eronarn> so much more has changed over this break, than over the last break i took
00:04:17 <doy> that's what happens when you like more than double the size of the dev team
00:05:25 <doy> up to 22 committers
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01:06:10 <Ashenzari> Autoexplore failure in hive centre (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2471) by nubinia
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03:50:01 <dpeg> Hi all!
03:50:06 <dpeg> !messages
03:50:06 <Henzell> (1/1) Keskitalo said (1d 19h 34s ago): Great work on the page, I'll see if I can think of a reply. Already +1 the messge condensation part. Will think of cases for that later.
03:50:29 <due> hiii dpeg
03:50:42 <dpeg> Hi due!
03:55:56 <due> !hs char=defe
03:55:57 <Sequell> 2. bookofjude the Conjurer (L12 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by a yak on Lair:5 on 2010-09-04, with 20177 points after 23503 turns and 1:51:17.
03:55:59 <due> :(
03:56:04 <dpeg> !seen greensnark
03:56:04 <Henzell> I last saw greensnark at Sat Sep  4 14:49:21 2010 UTC (18h 6m 43s ago) saying The docs are out there, you should try reading them now and then :P on ##crawl-dev.
03:56:21 <dpeg> !tell greensnark Now a good time to ask for former developers on rgrm?
03:56:21 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
03:56:32 <due> We should probably decide on a license first.
03:56:43 <dpeg> due: I think so, yes.
03:58:16 <dpeg> Nobody replied on food items :/
03:58:39 <bhaak> I prefer the "free-to-spread-when-nude" license
03:58:45 <dpeg> Everyone complains and even loudly so, but then they are too lazy to add some lines to a wiki.
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04:01:27 <monky> I'd add, but all I have to say is that I agree with adding distinctions or removing pointless variations, whereas the page seems to be more about suggestions on what specific distinctions to add
04:01:50 <dpeg> monky: sure. No ideas for special food? :)
04:03:08 <dpeg> monky: also, you haven't been complaining loudly yesterday.
04:03:14 <monky> oh
04:03:46 <monky> I may have chimed in once or twice about variety and royal jelly effects so I wasn't sure
04:04:11 <kilobyte> there's hard to come with good ideas
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04:05:08 <dpeg> kilobyte: there are some on the page already, imo
04:05:11 <kilobyte> I wouldn't call ambrosia that hot, for example.  Having to wash it down with an unrelated potion (or swap amulets) will probably make most people not bother, especially that it's very rare.
04:06:09 <kilobyte> hmm... somehow my mail dir doesn't contain any mantis mail about food edits on the wiki
04:08:28 <kilobyte> ah, you mean the wurst stuff
04:12:11 <dpeg> yes
04:18:54 <kilobyte> for the license, the tiles folks seem to want to have the tiles themselves under the Public Domain, as in the original rltiles project
04:19:33 <due> kilobyte: yes, i'm noting  that in my reply
04:20:08 <kilobyte> it wasn't mentioned in the mail you sent, at least
04:20:23 <due> hence why it's being mentioned in my reply
04:21:57 <due> dpeg: my reply all bounces on jpeg's email
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04:39:56 <kilobyte> due: "550 Unknown user" means her account at the old university was removed.  She used Johanna Ploog <johanna.ploog@googlemail.com> already, so that appears to be her primary address now.
04:40:07 <due> ahhh
04:45:36 <kilobyte> heh, my ancient @mimuw.edu.pl account is still there
04:47:23 <bhaak> germany is saving money. that also includes e-mail accounts
04:47:42 <CIA-81> 03kilobyte 07save-package * rde7e71ba2b7d 10/crawl-ref/source/package.cc: Disable COSTLY_ASSERTS.
04:47:44 <CIA-81> 03kilobyte 07save-package * r097ee979f88e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc initfile.cc libunix.h syscalls.h): "--edit-save Joe repack" that defrags the save file.
04:47:46 <CIA-81> 03kilobyte 07save-package * ra16ef2ae22a9 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Don't try to delete the old-style save parts.
04:48:28 <ortoslon> will new saves be one-file?
04:48:37 <kilobyte> ironically, somehow like half of the spam on that account says "we are removing old accounts, if you don't want that please send the password"
04:48:40 <kilobyte> yeah
04:54:06 <dpeg> due: yes, jpeg's mail different, I always forget that
04:54:10 <due> dpeg: :)
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06:12:29 <CIA-81> 03by * ra49e4492fc26 10/crawl-ref/source/ (62 files): Rename variables named "monster" to "mons" or similar.
06:12:31 <CIA-81> 03by * r864168f17c16 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Fix xom.cc:_confuse_monster not actually doing anything.
06:12:38 <CIA-81> 03by * r31adfd48395f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (169 files): Rename class "monsters" to "monster".
06:12:45 <by> kilobyte: don't worry, merges cleanly with save-package
06:13:32 <due> nice
06:15:19 <by> ~4k lines changes...
06:43:04 <blackpenguin> Nergalle triggered lots of crashes in the arena, too. ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 802 failed.
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07:19:24 <dpeg> Any objections to a quick tournament summary on rgrm by me?
07:20:25 <due> nope
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07:27:52 <dpeg> Is there a way to see all games played during the tournament (both CDO and CAO)?
07:28:00 <dpeg> !lg t +
07:28:00 <Sequell> Malformed argument: +
07:28:02 <dpeg> !lg t *
07:28:03 <Sequell> 58428. Theseus the Grave Robber (L1 SENe), slain by an ooze on D:1 on 2010-08-31, with 22 points after 170 turns and 0:00:11.
07:28:59 <due> !lg * when=t s=char
07:29:00 <Sequell> 58428 games for * (when=t): 8071x DEWn, 3240x SpEn, 1614x DEAr, 1512x MfCr, 1420x GhFE, 1361x DSWn, 1202x DSCK, 984x MDFi, 908x DEWz, 891x TrBe, 842x SETm, 823x HOPr, 665x DDNe, 615x HaTm, 465x HEWz, 441x DEFE, 435x MfIE, 432x DSFi, 419x VpNe, 418x SEAs, 409x HEFE, 382x MiBe, 378x SpAr, 374x DSBe, 367x NaWz, 367x DECj, 367x HOFi, 360x DSWz, 359x DSNe, 350x VpAs, 344x MDBe, 342x HaBe, 341x HuFi, 31...
07:29:04 <due> !lg * when=t s=char ktyp=winning
07:29:04 <Sequell> 321 games for * (when=t ktyp=winning): 49x SpEn, 23x DDNe, 22x MfCr, 18x GhFE, 18x HaTm, 17x SEAs, 9x MfIE, 7x HEWz, 7x HaBe, 6x HECr, 5x DDCK, 4x MfTm, 4x HEIE, 4x DSNe, 4x DECj, 4x SpVM, 3x MDEn, 3x DSAs, 3x HEFE, 3x SEIE, 3x SpSt, 3x DEWz, 3x DSBe, 3x DSVM, 3x KoCr, 2x NaFE, 2x MDFi, 2x MfFE, 2x NaIE, 2x DSIE, 2x KoBe, 2x MfCK, 2x NaPr, 2x DEIE, 2x TrAE, 2x OgHu, 2x NaWz, 2x DSMo, 2x DSWz, 2x D...
07:29:10 <due> Who was scumming DEWn?
07:29:17 <due> !lg * when=t char=DEwn s=name
07:29:18 <Sequell> 8071 games for * (when=t char=DEwn): 8055x Sebi, 2x MrMrMonkey, 2x Laguna6, 2x razzo, 1x heteroy, 1x kaiza, 1x cptwinky, 1x Shovelmint, 1x Pyrusette, 1x Smasheh, 1x enivid, 1x LexAckson, 1x Xiberia, 1x LASD
07:29:21 <due> Oh, surprise.
07:29:54 <dpeg> and for 2009 and 2008?
07:30:08 <dpeg> oh, I guess the number of players is also crucial
07:32:12 <dpeg> please :)
07:33:03 <due> hm
07:33:11 <due> I'm not sure there's a tourney2008/2009 marker
07:33:18 <due> !lg * when=t x=when
07:33:19 <Sequell> 58428. [when=] Theseus the Grave Robber (L1 SENe), slain by an ooze on D:1 on 2010-08-31, with 22 points after 170 turns and 0:00:11.
07:33:22 <due> !lg * when=t x=date
07:33:23 <Sequell> Unknown selector date in date
07:33:29 <due> !lg * when=t x=start
07:33:29 <Sequell> 58428. [start=2010-08-31 [20100731235907S]] Theseus the Grave Robber (L1 SENe), slain by an ooze on D:1 on 2010-08-31, with 22 points after 170 turns and 0:00:11.
07:33:56 <due> !lg * start>=2010-08-01 start<= 2010-08-31
07:33:56 <Sequell> 57897. b0rsuk the Skullcrusher (L27 KoFi), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2010-09-05, with 2096051 points after 138578 turns and 13:46:51.
07:34:00 <due> !lg * start>=2010-08-01 start<=2010-08-31
07:34:00 <Sequell> 57897. b0rsuk the Skullcrusher (L27 KoFi), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2010-09-05, with 2096051 points after 138578 turns and 13:46:51.
07:34:05 <due> Hm, not the same.
07:34:14 <dpeg> due: yes, I thikn there was something on the !lg howto page.
07:34:18 <dpeg> Back later, food now.
07:34:19 <due> That's over a thousand games unaccounted for.
07:37:31 <blackpenguin> dpeg: tournaments attract new victims^happy players. I know at least 10 persons who actually began to play dcss during the tournament.
07:42:39 <felirx> anyone come across comments regarding the new tutorial yet, eg on SA?
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07:45:36 <Keskitalo> felirx: I read a few newcomers mention that they di the tutorial, at least. I was too lazy to gather links, unfortunately. :/
07:46:13 <Keskitalo> with "at least" I mean I don't recall specific comments, but I got the impression that the tutorial worked for them
07:49:25 <blackpenguin> it worked for me, however I didn't finish it. once I understood the basic concepts and differences to nethack, I was bored from playing tutorial and prefered to play real games and learn from them
07:50:01 <felirx> do you mean tutorial as in the regular game with hints, or the 0.7 minigame?
07:50:16 <blackpenguin> but yes, the tutorial gives a good start and actually I would recommend it to new players to learn the basics
07:50:40 <Keskitalo> blackpenguin: Sounds good, thanks for the comments :)
07:55:24 <Keskitalo> felirx: I have gathered a few comments here: http://evktalos.wikidot.com/
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08:47:14 <blue_anna> anyone know the awk or other cli to get the third word in a bunch of lines of output?
08:47:17 <blue_anna> I hate awk :P
08:47:42 <blue_anna> it should be the same format as perl or ruby or .. something
08:48:32 <blue_anna> I got it
08:48:47 <blue_anna> I was looking for a way to pipe the output directly to my editor
08:48:48 <blue_anna> git diff | grep "diff --cc" | awk '{print $3}' | xargs -0 mae
08:58:42 <M-Kaibigan> Guys
08:58:54 <M-Kaibigan> Any open source virtual drives out there?
08:59:03 <M-Kaibigan> Need it for my new 'Tablet' laptop
09:01:16 <bhaak> blue_anna: if there are no spaces in between: cut -d \  -f 3
09:04:55 <blue_anna> got one for git add too
09:04:57 <blue_anna> git diff | grep "diff --cc" | awk '{printf("%s ",$3)}' | xargs -rt git add
09:05:34 <blue_anna> can't do it with the -0 on xargs because it thinks its one giant filename
09:05:42 <bhaak> what are you trying to do?
09:06:31 <blue_anna> git pull --rebase .. on the rebase some of my patches break .. so I now can load all the relavant files into my editor with one command, and after fixing them add them back to the rebase with one more :)
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09:11:27 <by> due, dpeg: when=t9, when=t8 for old tournaments
09:12:08 <by> !lg * when!= ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting s=when
09:12:08 <Sequell> Bad arg 's=when' - cannot summarise by when
09:12:16 <by> !lg * when=t8 ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting
09:12:19 <Sequell> 13771. splat the Ruinous (L4 MfCj), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+0 spear) on D:3 on 2008-08-31, with 188 points after 2995 turns and 0:04:59.
09:12:23 <by> !lg * when=t9 ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting
09:12:25 <Sequell> 28306. ziropiro the Sneak (L3 SpAE), blasted by Jessica (magic dart) on D:2 on 2009-08-31, with 97 points after 3062 turns and 0:04:49.
09:12:29 <by> !lg * when=t ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting
09:12:29 <Sequell> 44884. Theseus the Grave Robber (L1 SENe), slain by an ooze on D:1 on 2010-08-31, with 22 points after 170 turns and 0:00:11.
09:12:52 <by> !lg * when=t8 ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting xl>5
09:12:55 <Sequell> 3597. Dingir the Eviscerator (L27 HaAs), worshipper of Okawaru, escaped with the Orb and 8 runes on 2008-08-31, with 2970170 points after 162668 turns and 23:36:01.
09:12:57 <by> !lg * when=t9 ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting xl>5
09:12:59 <Sequell> 7038. mafalda the Severer (L18 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by a sphinx (divine providence) on Tomb:1 on 2009-08-31, with 187872 points after 38918 turns and 4:06:16.
09:13:04 <by> !lg * when=t ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting xl>5
09:13:04 <Sequell> 10730. valrus the Chucker (L8 CeAE), worshipper of Fedhas, slain by an ogre (a +0,+0 giant spiked club) on D:4 on 2010-08-31, with 1721 points after 6673 turns and 0:28:17.
09:13:25 <by> !lg * when=t8 ktyp=winning
09:13:26 <Sequell> 169. Dingir the Eviscerator (L27 HaAs), worshipper of Okawaru, escaped with the Orb and 8 runes on 2008-08-31, with 2970170 points after 162668 turns and 23:36:01.
09:13:29 <by> !lg * when=t9 ktyp=winning
09:13:30 <Sequell> 286. Grimm the Devastator (L23 HEWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-08-31, with 1217340 points after 107377 turns and 6:15:03.
09:13:33 <by> !lg * when=t ktyp=winning
09:13:34 <Sequell> 321. qwqw the Bewitcher (L14 SpEn), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-08-31, with 4299119 points after 14318 turns and 1:39:33.
09:14:18 <by> so 169/286/321 wins, 3597/7038/10730 games above xl 5, 13771/28306/44884 games
09:15:30 <by> !lg * t8 win x=avg(sklev)
09:15:30 <Sequell> 169 games for * (t8 win): avg(sklev)=25.38
09:15:34 <by> !lg * t9 win x=avg(sklev)
09:15:34 <Sequell> 286 games for * (t9 win): avg(sklev)=25.42
09:15:37 <by> !lg * t win x=avg(sklev)
09:15:38 <Sequell> 321 games for * (t win): avg(sklev)=22.93
09:15:52 <doy> !lg * when=t x=cdist(name)
09:15:53 <Sequell> 58428 games for * (when=t): cdist(name)=1091
09:15:56 <by> this drop can probably be attributed to a shift towards spellcasters or away from heavy armour
09:15:59 <doy> 1091 players
09:16:04 <doy> !lg * when=t9 x=cdist(name)
09:16:06 <Sequell> 33869 games for * (when=t9): cdist(name)=737
09:16:14 <doy> !lg * when=t8 x=cdist(name)
09:16:14 <Sequell> 15499 games for * (when=t8): cdist(name)=385
09:16:27 <doy> 385/737/1091
09:18:38 <by> !lg * t win s=role
09:18:38 <Sequell> 321 games for * (t win): 53x Enchanter, 36x Crusader, 29x Necromancer, 29x Fire Elementalist, 25x Ice Elementalist, 23x Transmuter, 22x Assassin, 16x Wizard, 16x Berserker, 8x Conjurer, 8x Chaos Knight, 8x Venom Mage, 6x Monk, 6x Stalker, 5x Reaver, 5x Fighter, 4x Warper, 3x Summoner, 3x Priest, 3x Air Elementalist, 3x Hunter, 3x Arcane Marksman, 2x Wanderer, 2x Paladin, 2x Healer, 1x Artificer
09:18:40 <by> !lg * t9 win s=role
09:18:41 <Sequell> 286 games for * (t9 win): 39x Fighter, 37x Berserker, 22x Chaos Knight, 19x Necromancer, 18x Paladin, 18x Fire Elementalist, 16x Ice Elementalist, 13x Crusader, 10x Thief, 9x Priest, 9x Death Knight, 8x Gladiator, 8x Wizard, 7x Artificer, 6x Air Elementalist, 6x Monk, 6x Transmuter, 6x Enchanter, 6x Conjurer, 5x Healer, 4x Stalker, 4x Venom Mage, 3x Hunter, 2x Earth Elementalist, 2x Reaver, 2x Ass...
09:20:07 <blue_anna> umm
09:20:15 <blue_anna> have anyone built off of thrunk yet?
09:21:58 <blue_anna> I'm getting errors because some of the code was changed to use a parameter monsters* mons instead of monsters* monster
09:22:00 <blue_anna> but not all of it
09:22:34 <due> it's monster* mons now
09:23:04 <doy> by++
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09:25:19 <blue_anna> I'm kinda wrong
09:25:29 <blue_anna> http://nopaste.dk/p2395 this is the eror Im actually getting
09:25:45 <blue_anna> I just noticed that some of the code was changed because thats what I had to fix when I rebased
09:27:27 <doy> blue_anna: yes, you'll need to modify your patches some more
09:27:39 <doy> just because you fixed the actual conflicts doesn't mean that there aren't still problems
09:27:57 <blue_anna> ooh it looks like someone removed an include from that file
09:28:01 <doy> the class 'monsters' was renamed to 'monster'
09:28:07 <blue_anna> ooo
09:28:09 <blue_anna> thats what it is
09:28:21 <blue_anna> doy, ty
09:28:29 <blue_anna> I can handle that
09:28:36 <due> 09:22:34 <+due> it's monster* mons now
09:30:48 <blue_anna> it wasnt since my very first patch that I altered attitude-change :)
09:30:57 <blue_anna> I wasnt sure it was my problem :P
09:31:08 <due> if there is a problem, check your own code first :0
09:31:28 <blue_anna> due, yea no - of course you're right. :) I just forgot .. it was 17 patches ago
09:32:24 <RjY> crawl puts the * with the type, not the variable?
09:32:45 <due> Yeah.
09:32:52 <due> That's one of the coding conventions.
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09:36:45 <by> actually it's done inconsistently, but I think I prefer that way
09:37:01 <RjY> docs/develop/coding_conventions doesn't mention it explicitly, and contradicts itself in examples :)
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09:39:14 <RjY> (i know,i know, no-one keeps the docs up to date :P)
09:39:17 <by> you could argue "monster *mons" is good because *mons is of type monster, but that breaks down with references
09:41:53 <due> monsters* mons makes more sense to me
09:41:54 <felirx> I prefer * on type also
09:42:49 <blue_anna> I was always surprised that no one ever made an archtypical roguelike in ruby .. there's none in c# either right?
09:42:54 <M-Kaibigan> My conventions put it with the type
09:49:13 <doy> by: i prefer with the variable, because otherwise you start getting people doing "monster* foo, bar" and wondering why it doesn't work
09:49:58 <doy> but you're right, as with so many parts of c++, they broke that reasoning with their reference syntax
09:51:03 <by> yes, that's a problem
09:51:22 <Napkin> clean_map = true is broken in trunk
09:51:40 <Napkin> or did it get removed?
09:51:59 <felirx> I avoid multiple variable definitions like that in almost all cases though
09:52:15 <felirx> especially if it's a pointer or a reference
09:55:03 <Zao> The only situation I can see someone needing to declare more than one variable at the same time is  auto x = v.begin(), y = v.end();
09:55:17 <Zao> As otherwise you'd need auto x = ...; decltype(x) y = ...;
09:55:19 <Zao> Which is just ugly.
09:56:38 <by> Napkin: just broken probably
09:56:52 <Napkin> told mantis
09:57:04 <by> thanks
09:57:14 <Napkin> it was a trunk game by mistake anyways ;)
09:57:53 <Ashenzari> clean_map = true is broken (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2472) by Napkin
10:06:51 <blue_anna> dwarf hall of fallen heros combined patch now hosted on github :) -- http://github.com/robbiemu/DHFH
10:11:14 <blue_anna> crud .. how do I remove the last two commits?
10:11:54 <Napkin> remove locally and then try to overwrite - or better (for history reasons and anybody who has cloned from you) use git revert
10:12:02 <doy> blue_anna: that's not what we meant by 'host it on github' d:
10:12:18 <blue_anna> doy, ? its not?
10:12:46 <doy> blue_anna: clone the crawl git repository, apply your patches individually on top of that, and push that whole thing to github
10:13:15 <doy> so that we can actually pull from it
10:13:19 <doy> and not have to deal with patches
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10:13:59 <Napkin> hihi, good one, blue_anna :D
10:14:37 <blue_anna> I .. if I'm maintaning a fork shouldnt I have it on crawl's git? not that I want access to the main tree, but a fork..
10:15:12 <blue_anna> I mean I guess I already am, so I should just do it ..
10:15:14 <Napkin> generally yes, but with git it doesn't matter where the separate branch/fork is
10:15:42 <blue_anna> anyway they should apply like butter :)
10:15:54 <blue_anna> I did all the merge issues
10:16:04 <Napkin> that's what you should push to your github repository, blue_anna
10:16:21 <blue_anna> alright
10:16:58 <doy> yeah, the whole point of git is that you can have your own fork
10:17:00 <blue_anna> so how do I do this? git clone my_local_copy/ dhfh/ and git commit -A and push?
10:17:01 <doy> that we can pull from
10:17:21 <blue_anna> you mean I can fork crawl from inside github? I didnt know it was a github repository :P
10:17:22 <Napkin> once you use it a bit more, you'll see the big advantage of not having to deal with patches anymore
10:17:29 <doy> blue_anna: no, but it doesn't matter
10:17:57 <doy> just create a new github repository, and push it there
10:18:03 <doy> i assume you already have a local copy
10:18:06 <blue_anna> okay, mmm .. cna you give me explicit instructions please? tell me how to do it once and I'll keep doing it until its RC-ready and you guys actually add it
10:18:09 <doy> with the patches applied and everything
10:18:12 <doy> right?
10:18:22 <blue_anna> yes
10:18:31 <doy> so just push that to github
10:19:10 <doy> git remote add github git@github.com:robbiemu/DHFH
10:19:14 <doy> git push github master
10:28:11 <Napkin> what's the 50/50 weight for training armour/dodging?
10:28:14 <Napkin> 400 or 500?
10:30:51 <CIA-81> 03doy * rc8c61f6c2835 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: allow using ?id to find rod pluses
10:30:53 <CIA-81> 03doy * r02e57cf5f090 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc describe.h wiz-item.cc): clear randart autoinscription before wizmode-rerandarting
10:30:58 <CIA-81> 03doy * r112575626a46 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc itemprop.cc): also need ISFLAG_KNOW_TYPE for randarts to be fully identified
10:33:01 -!- bhaak is now known as sbhaak
10:37:36 -!- badnruin has joined ##crawl-dev
10:38:46 <blue_anna> doy, I dont know that I can just do that.. if I do, won't I lose the ability to git pull --rebase and get trunk?
10:38:58 <M-Kaibigan> Are any of the monster glyphs in bold?
10:39:09 <blue_anna> M-Kaibigan, think so
10:39:13 <M-Kaibigan> I want to set my friend_brand to bold so the colours aren't splurged away by a green background
10:39:16 <blue_anna> M-Kaibigan, grep LIGHT mon-data.h
10:39:17 <Napkin> blue_anna: you will not do rebase anymore
10:39:18 <M-Kaibigan> Really :<
10:39:22 <Napkin> you'll do a merge
10:39:32 <Napkin> which is exactly how it should be
10:39:34 <blue_anna> Napkin, then theres no point in me doing this :P
10:39:41 <doy> nah, you can still do rebase
10:39:48 <blue_anna> I was doing it in the first place so I could keep my code up to date with trunk
10:39:49 <doy> nobody will be basing changes off this branch
10:39:50 <Napkin> if you want the devs to get your changes in a reasonable way
10:39:52 <doy> so it doesn' matter
10:40:03 <doy> and it'll be a lot easier for devs to merge if the branch is rebased
10:40:19 <Napkin> not really
10:40:24 <doy> yes really
10:40:30 <Napkin> if he keeps it merges, there is no difference
10:40:35 <Napkin> *merged
10:41:01 <Napkin> if you do rebase, you need to force overwriting of the branch in github
10:41:02 <doy> except for the history getting all uglied up
10:41:06 <doy> right
10:41:06 <blue_anna> what I did when I created my git repository is started a new directory
10:41:17 <Napkin> depending on server settings, this might not be that easy
10:41:33 <doy> Napkin: github allows it
10:41:39 <doy> as does basically everything besides sourceforge
10:41:42 <Napkin> doy, the history will be as nice and shiny as ever
10:41:46 <doy> Napkin: no, it won't
10:41:53 <Napkin> just not linear/cvs/svn like
10:42:02 <doy> trust me, rebasing for topic branches is much easier to deal with
10:42:06 <Napkin> there is nothing ugly about that
10:42:12 <doy> if nobody else is going to have changes based on it
10:42:39 <Napkin> how will you know?
10:42:48 <doy> Napkin: why would they?
10:42:54 <Napkin> why wouldn't they?
10:43:00 <Napkin> it's public afterall
10:43:02 <blue_anna> it would be nice ...
10:43:05 <blue_anna> :)
10:43:49 <Napkin> there was no problem with the deep dwarf branch when it was added
10:43:59 <Napkin> and it was merging after made public too
10:44:15 <blue_anna> what do you mean, you guys already added it?
10:44:20 <doy> Napkin: no, blue_anna has been rebasing
10:44:24 <blue_anna> I mean now
10:44:32 <blue_anna> yea
10:44:41 <Napkin> like.. it had to do merging, because it was hosted it on CDO already at the time of development
10:44:58 <doy> Napkin: wait, what are you referring to
10:45:00 <badnruin> is there a resource for getting crawl compiled in linux? tiles is a mess, and the non-tiles is running in to curses.h problems.
10:45:16 <Napkin> about the time when DD was still a branch hosted on github
10:45:21 <doy> oh, the dd race
10:45:25 <doy> not the dd branch
10:45:26 <doy> (:
10:45:52 <CIA-81> 03by * rd5d0a4d7b053 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/vaults.des: Fix part of Vault:8 brokenness.
10:46:43 <doy> Napkin: but linear history is a lot easier to read, in any case
10:47:07 <doy> git allows you to do other things, and that's really useful, but it's not "better" in any meaningful sense
10:47:37 <blue_anna> well Im just gonna move on, I cant do this til I know how, and know it wont break what I already have
10:47:48 <doy> blue_anna: i told you how
10:47:50 <Napkin> that's a philosophy discussion - so i'm out now
10:47:54 <doy> take the working copy you already have
10:47:57 <doy> and push it to github
10:47:59 <Napkin> it can actually be quite useful
10:48:02 <doy> using the commands i gave you
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10:49:24 <doy> then updates are just "git pull --rebase && git push -f github master"
10:50:36 <blue_anna> doy, I just wasnt clear -- it will work, pulling form one master, and pushing to another?
10:51:12 <doy> yes
10:51:17 <blue_anna> ooh :)
10:51:18 <blue_anna> ok then
10:51:22 <doy> that's the whole point of a distributed vcs like git
10:52:51 <blue_anna> http://nopaste.dk/p2398
10:53:12 <doy> ah, use -f in that first push too
10:53:18 <doy> git push -f github master
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11:00:29 <blue_anna> its up :)
11:06:00 <doy> blue_anna: the other thing that would be nice is if you could clean up the history a bit - for instance, the emergency casting while berserk patch was already applied, and there's not really a reason for 'first commit' and 'dummy commit' to be there
11:07:01 <blue_anna> doy how do I do that?
11:07:17 <blue_anna> doy I tried git revert <commit#> for the first and dummy commits
11:07:24 <blue_anna> but they stayed anyway :P
11:07:33 <doy> right, revert just adds new reverse-commits
11:07:57 <blue_anna> whats the proper way?
11:07:59 <doy> do "git rebase -i origin/master..HEAD"
11:08:09 <doy> and follow the instructions
11:08:25 <doy> in this case, it should just involve removing the lines for those patches
11:08:36 <blue_anna> fatal: Needed a single revision
11:08:36 <blue_anna> Invalid base
11:08:45 <doy> oh, right
11:08:50 <doy> drop the ..HEAD
11:09:21 <blue_anna> ok, now Im in an editor looking at my history :)
11:09:22 <blue_anna> thats cool
11:09:48 <blue_anna> ooo I get it
11:09:51 <blue_anna> thank you
11:11:07 <blue_anna> doy I can just delete the berserk commit since it is in trunk now, right?
11:12:06 <doy> yes
11:12:14 <doy> that commit just has some whitespace changes at the moment
11:14:57 <doy> !lg * killer=eustachio
11:14:58 <Sequell> No games for * (killer=eustachio).
11:15:02 <doy> !lg * ikiller=eustachio
11:15:02 <Sequell> 4. 57 the Thaumaturge (L9 DEWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, demolished by a hill giant zombie (a +1,+1 great mace) (animated by a shadow imp (summoned by Eustachio)) on D:12 on 2010-08-05, with 3262 points after 9145 turns and 1:41:21.
11:15:08 <doy> heh
11:15:17 <doy> !lg * ikiller=eustachio -2
11:15:17 <Sequell> 3. Voker57 the Reanimator (L10 DSFE), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, blasted by a white imp (puff of frost) (summoned by Eustachio) on D:11 on 2010-06-09, with 5829 points after 14300 turns and 0:36:37.
11:17:58 <CIA-81> 03doy * r87069047af49 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: note that mr bonus is related to skill in staff of ench description
11:18:00 <CIA-81> 03doy * rf591bfe21a61 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des: make eustachio a bit shallower (might need to go further, we'll see)
11:33:40 -!- sbhaak is now known as bhaak
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11:38:29 <badnruin> anyone have experience compiling the tiles version in linux?
11:39:10 <doy> badnruin: what problems are you having
11:39:56 <badnruin> doy: running into pkg-config type problems: it's complaining about sdl and freetype2 libs, but I'm just stumbling through this
11:40:45 <doy> do you have the -dev package installed for sdl and freetype?
11:40:47 <badnruin> this probably isn't even crawl specific, but my google-fu is failing
11:41:03 <badnruin> i will check
11:43:57 <badnruin> well that cleared up some errors, now it complains about png.h, but that was part of the original failure too
11:44:47 <doy> libpng-dev, probably
11:46:03 <badnruin> lol..getting close.  SDL_image.h is now the problem.
11:47:04 <monky> my guess is you need sdl_image
11:47:10 <doy> -dev
11:47:13 <doy> but yeah
11:47:18 <monky> I'm not used to debian
11:47:22 <monky> (???)
11:47:23 <doy> or libsdl_image-dev, or whatever
11:47:26 <doy> google is your friend
11:47:30 <badnruin> this is probably blatantly obvious to you guys, I'm a ubuntu refugee on his third day of fedora 13
11:47:52 <badnruin> I do appreciate the help
11:51:00 <badnruin> it's compiling happy now. so simple and so facepalm.  thanks for the help.
11:54:23 <Zao> badnruin: As long as you're not on the heathen source distros, all is well.
12:01:22 <dpeg> okay, new attempt at the tournament rgrm announcement
12:01:27 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba
12:01:30 <dpeg> Unfortunately, my first verion is lost.
12:03:22 <doy> !lg * ktyp=winning urune=15 x=cdist(name)
12:03:22 <Sequell> 421 games for * (ktyp=winning urune=15): cdist(name)=164
12:03:35 <doy> wow, really?
12:03:46 <dpeg> !lg t *
12:03:46 <Sequell> 58428. Theseus the Grave Robber (L1 SENe), slain by an ooze on D:1 on 2010-08-31, with 22 points after 170 turns and 0:00:11.
12:03:49 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r51bd627a5450 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Comment fix.
12:03:51 <doy> !lg * ktyp=winning urune=15 x=cdist(name) when=t
12:03:52 <Sequell> 61 games for * (ktyp=winning urune=15 when=t): cdist(name)=53
12:03:53 <doy> heh
12:03:54 <dpeg> !lg t=9 *
12:03:54 <Sequell> Unknown selector: t
12:03:56 <doy> for got that part
12:04:00 <doy> dpeg: when=t9
12:04:23 <doy> !lg * ktyp=winning urune=15 x=cdist(name) when=t9
12:04:23 <Sequell> 27 games for * (ktyp=winning urune=15 when=t9): cdist(name)=26
12:04:25 <doy> !lg * ktyp=winning urune=15 x=cdist(name) when=t8
12:04:25 <Sequell> 26 games for * (ktyp=winning urune=15 when=t8): cdist(name)=16
12:04:38 <doy> 16/26/53 for people with all-rune wins
12:04:49 <doy> we're getting too easy!
12:05:05 <monky> or too popular
12:05:24 <dpeg> thanks
12:05:49 <dpeg> okay, perhaps you're quicker than me with this (and I won't run away this time either)
12:05:54 <doy> !gamesby * when=t
12:05:54 <Sequell> * (when=t) has played 58428 games, between 20100801 and 20100831, won 321 (0.5%), high score 33336361, total score 1298084870, total turns 248607001, total time 21571:59:45.
12:05:57 <doy> !gamesby * when=t9
12:05:58 <Sequell> * (when=t9) has played 33869 games, between 20090801 and 20090831, won 286 (0.8%), high score 28587140, total score 967504197, total turns 189192985, total time 15257:08:45.
12:05:59 <doy> !gamesby * when=t8
12:06:00 <Sequell> * (when=t8) has played 15499 games, between 20080801 and 20080831, won 169 (1.1%), high score 12813270, total score 479187431, total turns 94059630, total time 10654:23:20.
12:06:03 <dpeg> I need number of all games, all players and all wins for the three tournaments
12:06:11 <dpeg> You rock!
12:06:28 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) when=t
12:06:28 <Sequell> 58428 games for * (when=t): cdist(name)=1091
12:06:29 <dpeg> These games exclude quitters and scummers?
12:06:30 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) when=t9
12:06:32 <Sequell> 33869 games for * (when=t9): cdist(name)=737
12:06:32 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) when=t8
12:06:33 <Sequell> 15499 games for * (when=t8): cdist(name)=385
12:06:41 <doy> no, that's including everything
12:06:55 <doy> ^^ those numbers are distinct players
12:07:06 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) ktyp=winning when=t
12:07:06 <Sequell> 321 games for * (ktyp=winning when=t): cdist(name)=109
12:07:08 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) ktyp=winning when=t9
12:07:08 <Sequell> 286 games for * (ktyp=winning when=t9): cdist(name)=90
12:07:10 <doy> !lg * x=cdist(name) ktyp=winning when=t8
12:07:10 <Sequell> 169 games for * (ktyp=winning when=t8): cdist(name)=50
12:07:16 <doy> ^^ those are distinct winners
12:08:01 <doy> !gamesby * ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t
12:08:02 <Sequell> * (ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t) has played 44884 games, between 20100801 and 20100831, won 321 (0.7%), high score 33336361, total score 1295202341, total turns 246527123, total time 21386:20:07.
12:08:03 <doy> !gamesby * ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t9
12:08:04 <Sequell> * (ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t9) has played 28306 games, between 20090801 and 20090831, won 286 (1.0%), high score 28587140, total score 966672882, total turns 187838724, total time 15106:46:01.
12:08:06 <doy> !gamesby * ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t8
12:08:06 <Sequell> * (ktyp!=quitting ktyp!=leaving when=t8) has played 13771 games, between 20080801 and 20080831, won 169 (1.2%), high score 12813270, total score 478737310, total turns 93256262, total time 10547:41:49.
12:08:13 <doy> ^^ excluding quits/escapes
12:08:35 <dpeg> cool
12:08:43 <dpeg> number of wins would be the last one, I think
12:08:55 <doy> "won 321"
12:08:56 <dpeg> unless you come up with a number that could be interesting for rgrm folks
12:09:16 <dpeg> doy: right, that CAO number includes the CDO wins
12:09:47 <doy> !lg * ktyp=winning when=t s=src
12:09:48 <Sequell> 321 games for * (ktyp=winning when=t): 243x cao, 78x cdo
12:10:00 <dpeg> doy: CAO lists 328 wins for this August ?!
12:10:11 <dpeg> bug?
12:10:17 <dpeg> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/per-day.html
12:10:24 <doy> dpeg: that would be including games started before the tournament
12:11:03 <dpeg> good point
12:11:11 <Keskitalo> Awesome amount of awesome commits. :)
12:11:33 <doy> !lg * start<20100801 end>=20100801 end <=20100831 ktyp=winning
12:11:33 <Sequell> 8. Wensley the Thanatomancer (L27 DSSt), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-08-16, with 1539179 points after 195602 turns and 42:23:06.
12:11:37 <dpeg> Keskitalo: yes
12:12:19 <dpeg> Keskitalo: do me the favour and say _something_ on the food page. Yesterday, it was very loud here from shouting over the jellies, and I grudingly set up the page, but nobody added there (StudioMK exempted).
12:14:21 <Keskitalo> Stomach rule is a great one.
12:14:25 <doy> also, haha, we're *still* getting like 14k startscums in the tournament?
12:14:51 <dpeg> doy: we will never get rid of players scumming for good early gear (or god).
12:15:00 <doy> !lg * ktyp~~quitting|leaving when=t s=char
12:15:01 <Sequell> 13544 games for * (ktyp~~quitting|leaving when=t): 8035x DEWn, 1487x DEAr, 1023x DSWn, 114x SpEn, 101x MfCr, 80x MuWn, 55x TrBe, 55x DSFi, 52x SEWn, 52x KeTm, 49x CePa, 45x DGWn, 43x DEWz, 36x DSCK, 36x DrSt, 34x MDFi, 31x OgWn, 30x DDNe, 28x DEFE, 27x DSNe, 27x DSWz, 25x SEAs, 25x SETm, 25x HuFi, 24x DrAE, 23x TrCK, 23x DrIE, 19x NaWz, 19x MiBe, 19x GhFE, 19x KeWn, 19x MDWn, 19x NaAM, 18x DSCr, 1...
12:15:14 <doy> ah, wanderer scumming
12:15:22 <bhaak> doy: why are you surprised? as long as you don't implement an angband-like reroll start screen, I wouldn't expect any less startscumming
12:15:23 <monky> I accidentally started/quit a few; others may have done the same
12:15:36 <Keskitalo> I agree ambrosia is far from that great..
12:15:54 <dpeg> Keskitalo: thanks. Formulation is mine, but basic idea is Eronarn's. (Of course, Ero would also mention a bazillion of other ideas, and I had to extract the great insight from the pool :)
12:15:55 <Keskitalo> And that duplicating a potion effect (royal jelly) is far from great too.
12:16:00 <doy> !lg * ktyp~~quitting|leaving when=t s=name
12:16:01 <Sequell> 13544 games for * (ktyp~~quitting|leaving when=t): 9602x Sebi, 926x Xiberia, 139x Tenaya, 110x BlueAnna, 105x Dinah, 101x Kyrris, 85x lungtoast, 68x McStaberso, 60x Camkitsune, 49x Voker57, 47x martingale, 44x Hourscht, 42x ac13, 39x Elbereth, 36x m1nced, 35x Kerbtree, 34x Akhier, 34x ventricule, 33x Vicht, 31x NyaaKitty, 30x henryci, 29x Pancakes, 28x rastarogue, 26x Sanka, 25x Asema, 24x heteroy...
12:16:02 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Hehe :)
12:16:38 <dpeg> Keskitalo: asking you specifically because of your c-r-d reply.
12:17:05 <Eronarn> dpeg: too late! now i know there's a wiki page for it!! i'm already logged in!!!
12:17:21 <Keskitalo> Yeah. I read the irc log only afterwards (and noticed the revert afterwards too)
12:18:25 <dpeg> Keskitalo: when doy did the first change (remove RJ special feature), I was shouting too :)
12:18:32 <dpeg> Eronarn: go for it!
12:18:59 <Keskitalo> Grapes, sultanas or strawberries restoring a small amount of MP each (like felirx suggested) might be interesting. 1-3, I often find I've accidentally wasted just a bit too many MP to cast that spell I'd just need (Bornjor's for example).
12:22:20 <dpeg> I am not sure if plain MP restoration is good enough.
12:23:55 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * rba3f5502a1e9 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon.txt: Move wights to the proper section in dc-mon.txt.
12:24:17 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
12:30:11 <Eronarn> added comment.
12:30:23 <Eronarn> oh wait not yet, i forgot to save.
12:48:15 <CIA-81> 03doy * r9be5f58b163d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/wield.lua: also offer to wield coagulated blood for sublimation
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12:54:33 <Eronarn> we should totally have stone soup as a food item
12:54:54 <blue_anna> dpeg, I made a github repository for dhfh
12:55:05 <Zao> Sounds like something any self-respecting dwarf would eat.
12:55:37 <blue_anna> dpeg, http://github.com/robbiemu/DHFH you can just download, make, and play it now :) no patching
13:00:19 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
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13:08:05 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r6f7e12d8c91b 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/animals.txt: Update animals.txt using mon-data.h.
13:08:06 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r74a699250aec 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon.txt: Comment fix.
13:08:10 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * ra88d6a9c9140 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Move the Serpent of Hell tile to the uniques section.
13:12:56 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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13:22:21 <Eronarn> Zao: we could make it a food that gives DD-style shaving as stomach effect :)
13:25:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:26:15 <Zao> Eronarn: With some expiry effects like fainting when trying to pass the stones out of your system?
13:27:01 <CIA-81> 03doy * r532c2ea1ed0e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (effects.cc effects.h item_use.cc): unided scrolls of recharging should fail if they target a full wand
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13:31:39 <blue_anna> where do goblins get their gold from?
13:31:57 <blue_anna> not from mon-gear.cc
13:32:28 <Keskitalo> They probably pick it up? This happens especially in the Orcish Mines. Goblins don't drop gold as a norm.
13:32:43 <Keskitalo> (Or if they do, I've really been missing something :))
13:33:20 <blue_anna> ok .. every once in a while I get gold from golbins, even in dungeon .. I guess thats it. maybe I need to add some small piles of gold in dwarf hall to load up my dwarfs :)
13:34:05 <Keskitalo> There was a point where all centaurs and yaktaurs had gold, so it should be possible to just hand it out to them..
13:34:39 <Keskitalo> blue_anna: I just cloned the git repo, much neater than using patches :)
13:34:54 <blue_anna> Keskitalo,  cool!
13:35:02 -!- felirx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
13:35:15 <blue_anna> I have yet to hear a report of someone playing through dwarf hall ;)
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13:35:37 <blue_anna> I try but Im not actually that good at this game :D its tough not to wiz-mode it
13:36:45 <Eronarn> for reference, centaurs/yaktaurs had gold because barding generation code was broken
13:36:56 <Keskitalo> Eronarn: Oh, nice.
13:37:07 <Eronarn> they can definitely hold gold, but i'm unsure how easy it is to intentionally give it to them
13:37:20 <Keskitalo> blue_anna: I'm building now, but I probably don't have the time to play it just yet..
13:37:39 <Eronarn> Keskitalo: it was a great bug, huge balance implications because they were such common monsters and every time they didn't get a barding they got gold instead. lots of people did not realize it was a bug until it was fixed
13:37:47 <Eronarn> now shops are more fun because you can't necessarily buy everything
13:38:17 <Keskitalo> wrathgrapes, manaberries, vorbananas
13:38:24 <blue_anna> sounds like the kind of bug you leave in for alpha-testing purposes and then forget about :P
13:38:38 <Keskitalo> carepears
13:40:14 <Keskitalo> I'm trying out names for fruit, so that they could have properties obvious from the name :)
13:41:14 <Keskitalo> Adding usefulness to them of course makes the game overall easier.. which is of course a licence to make it harder otherwise :>
13:41:32 <blue_anna> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokeberry
13:41:38 <Eronarn> Keskitalo: if dpeg doesn't like 'grapes of wrath', i say 'angry fruit'. like ugly fruit, but angry.
13:42:26 <blue_anna> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeysuckle - tying this in to wasps and bees would be interesting
13:42:30 <blue_anna> use of scent
13:42:44 <Eronarn> also, i'd kind of like to see magic jellybeans with random effects that give almost no satiation, come in large packs, and use the stomach rule
13:42:58 <CIA-81> 03doy * r613d9ba10dbb 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: fix up item appearance if acquirement rerolls a brand for it
13:43:00 <blue_anna> eeh
13:43:10 <Eronarn> so you can eat a bunch if you're looking for a specific effect, but it'll only last as long as you can avoid having to eat something else
13:43:43 <blue_anna> Eronarn, needs a better name than "magic jellybeans" -- its a cool effect
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13:44:05 <blue_anna> defintiely a cool effect
13:44:20 <blue_anna> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Orange
13:44:28 <blue_anna> Keskitalo, you seeing these? should I stop>
13:44:29 <Eronarn> blue_anna: it could just be "a jellybean" - no need for them to even be described in a special way
13:44:36 <Eronarn> blue_anna: add them to the wiki page
13:44:40 <blue_anna> Eronarn, I dont like that either
13:44:47 <Eronarn> other good ones: star fruit, dragon fruit, ugly fruit
13:45:30 <doy> is "magic jellybean" a reference to something? it feels really strongly familiar in a way that i can't quite figure out
13:45:30 <blue_anna> jellybeans dont tie in to the ffect and .. are out of place in a fantasy game to me
13:45:40 <Eronarn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackee
13:45:53 <Eronarn> doy: harry potter had the ones that had totally random flavors
13:46:01 <doy> yeah, not that
13:46:03 <doy> hmmm
13:46:09 <doy> also, "vegetable brain" is great
13:46:52 <Eronarn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabuticaba
13:47:04 <blue_anna> chokeberry /asphyxiation effect!/, blood orange /edible to vampires/, honeysuckle /uses the almost unused scent mechanic to attach bees/, dragon fruit /higher nutrition value to Dr's/,
13:47:05 <Eronarn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit
13:47:16 <Eronarn> "loafy"
13:47:35 <blue_anna> breadfruit -- very high nutrtion value for a fruit -- thats pretty literal I think
13:48:23 <Eronarn> i think we should avoid having such generic "special" effects
13:48:49 <Eronarn> if we're going to have special effects, they should be more interesting/noteworthy ones
13:49:11 <Eronarn> otherwise we get into the situation of every food having some marginal bonus and just cluttering up the effect list
13:49:59 <Eronarn> i think it would be ok if we did a relationship between power and rarity: common food totally mundane; uncommon food has some effect, only very rare food has powerful effects
13:50:17 <blue_anna> ambrosia already has a special effect
13:50:23 <blue_anna> and is rare
13:50:39 <Eronarn> yes, but the nice thing about rare items is - because they're rare, you can have a lot more of them
13:51:01 <dpeg> back
13:51:12 <dpeg> Has anyone of your participated in the 2009 NH devnull tournament?
13:51:21 <dpeg> I am unable to find statistics for it.
13:51:54 <dpeg> blue_anna: regarding dfhf, please mention this on your wiki, in case you don't already.
13:52:02 <dpeg> Also, did you think about the feedback?
13:52:06 <blue_anna> dpeg, its in there :)
13:52:55 <blue_anna> dpeg, yes
13:53:23 <blue_anna> there are a _lot_ of changes from patch 15 to patch 19
13:53:35 <blue_anna> so much I'm tthinking I should really scratch the wiki page and restart it
13:53:51 <blue_anna> certain things are basically set in stone now for me anyway
13:54:04 <blue_anna> like the deep dwarf artificers and necromancers.. they are done
13:54:30 <blue_anna> I have so many DDs now :)
13:54:37 <dpeg> good :)
13:54:49 <doy> the branch is still way too early for things to be set in stone(:
13:54:57 <dpeg> so, no NH 2009 tournament participants?
13:55:00 <blue_anna> DD, DD scion, DD Ar, DD Ne, DD Be, DD DK, DD unborn .. its a lot
13:55:23 <Eronarn> hm
13:55:37 <Eronarn> i should go through my DF notes so i can throw them out
13:55:40 <blue_anna> doy, I mean the health of a DDNe or Ar might change but their presense won't
13:55:42 <Zannick> dpeg: no, but i found this site earlier
13:55:44 <Zannick> http://nethack.kahrens.com/toptenlist.php?year=2009&show=all
13:55:45 <Eronarn> do you want me to add them to your wiki page, blue_anna, or make a new one
13:55:56 <blue_anna> they are in.
13:56:17 <blue_anna> Eronarn, add them please, tahts good
13:56:51 <blue_anna> I can tell you -- Ne's have a second spellbook now, increasing their spellcasting variety
13:56:53 <doy> blue_anna: i just mean, you shouldn't get too attached to specific things, because they are likely to change as things progress
13:57:00 <blue_anna> Ar's are not Band leaders
13:57:01 <Zannick> i'm pretty sure it's the devnull tourney, as my stats from 2008 are accurate http://nethack.kahrens.com/player.php?year=2008&id=1059 but no games before that
13:57:04 <blue_anna> 8*now
13:57:04 <doy> we've had bad experiences in the past with contributers that did that
13:57:11 <doy> and i'd like to avoid it in the future
13:57:29 <Zannick> oh, also it says devnull tournament on the side >.< haha
13:57:35 <blue_anna> doy, well if you'd like to change the code I'm not going to stop you
13:57:37 <dpeg> Zannick: cool. Are you able to track down number of player for 2009 from thisß
13:57:38 <blue_anna> ;)
13:57:43 <doy> (:
13:58:18 <Eronarn> i wonder how many of my notes are even still relevant
13:58:22 <Eronarn> some of 'em have actually been implemented
13:58:25 <Eronarn> like a lot of the DS ones
13:58:58 <Zannick> dpeg: from the players list: "Search for all players yielded 1622 results."
13:59:13 <Eronarn> oh, and subvaults! i wrote this writeup before the subvault thing was sure to happen
13:59:33 <Zannick> oh, that's not for 2009 alone, though
13:59:46 <dpeg> doy: good work on the MAntis front, many thanks.
14:00:02 <dpeg> Zannick: yes, that's the problem.
14:00:03 <bhaak> the xlogfile for devnull is still online: nethack.devnull.net/tournament/scores.xlogfile
14:00:16 <dpeg> bhaak: can you extract th enumbers for me?
14:00:20 <dpeg> Bittebitte :)
14:00:35 <bhaak> mom, 11910 games
14:01:23 <dpeg> Interesting, if my numbers are correct, 2008 had 22812 ganes,
14:02:11 <bhaak> player got better -> longer games? :-)
14:02:24 <bhaak> 57 games by me :-)
14:02:40 <Zannick> devnull says for 2008 "We logged a total of 22,812 completed games of NetHack played by 1,305 players"
14:03:28 <doy> dpeg: want me to parse anything out of that xlogfile?
14:03:30 <bhaak> wot? 354 players? that can't be right
14:03:41 <dpeg> number of players and win would be good
14:03:54 <doy> or is bhaak doing it
14:03:59 <dpeg> perhaps
14:04:32 <dpeg> ...now nobody is doing it, eh? :)
14:04:54 <bhaak> I'm trying, but I get impossible numbers
14:05:06 <blue_anna> Eronarn, http://nopaste.dk/p2399 heres some notes on the major changes
14:05:15 <blue_anna> creature changes
14:06:04 <dpeg> bhaak: low or high?
14:06:11 <dpeg> Perhaps it was more obscure last year?
14:08:03 <bhaak> dpeg: low. I remember getting the player count during the tournament and it was about 700 players at that time
14:08:06 <blue_anna> oooh
14:08:14 <blue_anna> a dagger of distortion on D1
14:08:25 <blue_anna> and I didnt even have to weild it to id it so I get to choose
14:08:50 <Zannick> maybe this is just one or one set of servers?
14:09:05 <blue_anna> !apt mi short
14:09:08 <Henzell> Mi (SK_SHORT_BLADES)=2
14:09:20 <blue_anna> screw it
14:09:26 <blue_anna> its hard to imagine getting a better weapon
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14:09:37 <dpeg> doy: what do you get?
14:10:03 <doy> working on it
14:11:25 <doy> yeah, looks like 354 here too
14:13:21 <doy> 292 ascensions
14:14:13 <bhaak> that xlogfile is only half as large as the one from 2008 nethack.devnull.net/archive/2008/scores.xlogfile.txt
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14:16:01 <doy> i apparently played two games
14:16:06 <doy> one asc and one d:22 death
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14:18:10 <dpeg> Can I use 354 or is that a wrong number?
14:18:28 <doy> probably the best number you're going to get
14:18:32 <bhaak> well, it's the only we got
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14:19:15 <dpeg> I will make a footnote, perhaps someone on the group has a better one.
14:22:12 <Zannick> from the stats page, only 207 players got any sort of star for completing some objective in game
14:24:26 <Zannick> compared with 260 the previous year
14:25:04 <Zannick> it's very possible that the tournament didn't get as much players, but the ones that did play were good
14:26:07 <dpeg> Zannick: that's what I'd generally expect with Nethack
14:26:11 <dpeg> shortage of fresh blood
14:26:50 <dpeg> !tell due Sent a message to r.g.r.m. Would you turn this into a devblog entry? (Some parts need editing, but you'll find out.) Cheers & thanks!
14:26:51 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let due know.
14:27:55 * bhaak goes to the fridge for a good cold potion of blood
14:28:04 <bhaak> you ain't getting fresh blood these days
14:29:44 <blue_anna> I like to have slices of blood orange with my blood pudding, and follow it up with a virgin mary after dinner, extra bloody
14:30:10 <blue_anna> * bloody mary .. damn, screwed that up, you can tell I dont drink
14:32:00 <Eronarn> saved what notes i had from DF
14:32:04 <Eronarn> on the bottom of that page
14:32:36 <by> I don't like the idea of food becoming another form of potions much
14:32:52 * doy agrees with by
14:33:04 <blue_anna> Eronarn, I'll put that on its own page for you if you want .. and just link to it from my page
14:33:21 <Eronarn> blue_anna: sure, whichever
14:33:25 <Eronarn> can even ignore it if you don't find it useful
14:33:49 <Eronarn> by: i don't think food should become another form of potions, but i think there is room for food with effects
14:33:54 <Eronarn> they should just be very different effects than potions
14:35:25 <blue_anna> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:dwarven_fortress
14:37:13 <by> I think food = nutrition, potions = status effects is a good distinction; if anything there should be few exceptions
14:39:39 <blue_anna> by, umm ok.. that's kinda out of the blue
14:40:01 <by> ?
14:40:20 <blue_anna> ooh this is about the rare fruits Keskitalo was thinking of writing?
14:41:02 <blue_anna> Keskitalo, is your name short for something in spanish or galacian or something?
14:41:04 <Eronarn> by: but there's already a bunch of exceptions; healing/restoration/mana potions don't provide a status effect for example
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14:41:26 <blue_anna> like .. ¿qué es (lo q) quitalo?
14:42:17 <blue_anna> Eronarn, look at the top of the DHFH page: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:dwarf_hall_of_fallen_heroes
14:42:27 <blue_anna> that a good enough link to your page for you?
14:42:31 <by> if those were exceptions, their existence woudln't be a good argument for messing things up further
14:42:56 <doy> hmmm, i *might* have been thinking of a boy and his blob, except for how i'm fairly sure i've never played that
14:42:58 <by> certainly healing and restoration do involve status effects, though
14:43:26 <blue_anna> by, well they involve effects
14:43:28 <by> and my loose definition of status effects includes mp and hp levels for this
14:43:31 <blue_anna> status effects are ENCH_*
14:43:35 <Eronarn> sure
14:44:55 <by> blue_anna: ENCH_* are monster enchantments, and an implementation detail
14:45:05 <blue_anna> fine DUR_*
14:45:07 <blue_anna> :P
14:45:49 <by> at any rate, how something is implemented is irrelevant
14:46:56 <Zannick> ENCH_SHAPESHIFTER is an unfortunate hack
14:47:16 <Zannick> but yeah, implementation details :P
14:47:37 <blue_anna> by, what I mean is, status effects effect the status line on the game. they give a status. he was right when he said healing potions are different.. they give no status
14:47:52 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * rd2e99c620ba2 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix Mantis 1448.
14:48:02 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * rc60709c3a2ce 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Add minor cosmetic fix.
14:53:05 <doy> blue_anna: that really depends a lot on how you define it
14:53:38 <dpeg> by: did you see what I wrote on that page? I believe that special food can be significantly different from potions.
14:54:34 <CIA-81> 03doy * r7c1f7769bf1e 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: make the ally attack prompt slightly different under oka
14:55:10 <blue_anna> I dont really care but... no matter how people want to define it, it is legitamte to say there is a difference between a status effect and the effect of a healing pot. in that, healing pots do not cause a status, just an effect. if you definee it differently thats great but it doesnt detract from what I read as his POV
14:55:37 <by> dpeg: I did read the page
14:55:41 <dpeg> by: okay!
14:56:43 <dpeg> by: it would be a legitimate option to restrict food to be only nutrition (although we should trash many food items in this case, in my opinion). However, I believe that food could be a little (not much, just a little) interesting.
14:56:57 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r237ab2fee3cc 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Don't display "You are rather mundane." for immature draconians.
14:56:58 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r8d370b3b5ef6 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes.
14:58:47 <doy> i mean, the thing to keep in mind is
14:58:54 <doy> people are going to be eating food regardless of what happens here
14:59:05 <doy> so the effects really don't have to be more than really minor
14:59:14 <dpeg> yes
14:59:46 <doy> in particular, i don't agree that restoring a stat point is too weak for royal jelly
15:00:02 <doy> because royal jellies are the best food in the game in terms of nutrition and weight and time to eat
15:00:23 <doy> and so it's not like people are just going to stop eating royal jellies if their other abilities are too weak
15:00:31 <dpeg> doy: comment on the wiki :) I believe that the other proposal is a bit more interesting, that's all.
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15:32:39 <dpeg> It seems as if this food debate will end like all others before: nowehere.
15:32:53 <dpeg> There seems to be a strong emotional attachment to food, no idea why.
15:33:33 <by> do you think the arguments against are not rational?
15:33:56 <bhaak> dpeg's last sentence should go in a crawl quote db :)
15:34:52 <CIA-81> 03doy * re5c5f74511c8 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: allow uncursing blowguns with enchant weapon ii
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15:35:22 <by> yay bugfixes
15:35:36 <Zannick> !learn add dpeg <@dpeg> There seems to be a strong emotional attachment to food, no idea why.
15:35:36 <Henzell> dpeg[9/9]: <@dpeg> There seems to be a strong emotional attachment to food, no idea why.
15:35:55 <Zannick> bhaak: Henzell is a quote db :)
15:36:06 <upsi> "Note also that food is not subject to item destruction." <- I thought giant spores destroyed food
15:36:18 <bhaak> Zannick: Henzell is also a trash can :-)
15:36:32 <Zannick> ?? dpeg[6]
15:36:32 <Henzell> dpeg[6/9]: <dpeg> Where's my nerf hammer?
15:36:35 <Zannick> :D
15:36:40 <by> upsi: that and harpies are irrelevant
15:36:58 -!- upsi is now known as upsy
15:37:00 <Zannick> bhaak: quote dbs and trash cans are somewhat similar
15:37:26 <bhaak> there is some truth in that
15:37:31 <blue_anna> is there any branch or theme, besides maybe zot itself, related to demigods?
15:38:11 <upsy> by: just making sure I wasn't completely wrong about that...
15:38:51 <by> no, you're right; it's just very rare
15:38:57 <doy> blue_anna: i think we should settle on a theme for demigods themselves before working on branch for them
15:39:10 <Zannick> not every race needs a branch :P
15:39:24 <doy> player slimes!
15:39:32 <Zannick> (and not every branch needs a race) :P
15:39:43 <Zannick> player shapeshifters!
15:39:49 <blue_anna> doy, yea I just had a thought :)
15:39:50 <by> I would think demigods are individuals and not some race living in some demigod country
15:40:15 <Zannick> whenever they kill a unique they can poly into them
15:40:28 <Zannick> disguise yourself as sigmund!
15:40:32 <upsy> making demigods more interesting seems like a very good idea
15:42:57 <dpeg> blue_anna: if you want to get an insane number of brownie points (at least with me), have a mild look at the DG proposal :)
15:46:24 <blue_anna> dpeg, donde está?
15:46:38 <blue_anna> I'm tired of dying trying to beat dwarf hall :P
15:47:30 <blue_anna> donde está =~ where's it at?
15:47:48 <upsy> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demigod
15:47:49 <by> brainstorm:species:demigod
15:47:52 <dpeg> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demigod&s[]=demigod#abstract_worshippers
15:47:55 <dpeg> oops
15:48:05 <dpeg> blue_anna: this is my one, which I like best =)
15:48:50 <dpeg> In general, the search function on the wiki is very good. That alone is a great improvement over SF, at least if you're doing some editing etc.
15:49:43 <blue_anna> dpeg, yea :) I bet. I just dont like wikis .. I mean I love wiki's interlinking.. but I dont like wiki markup :P
15:50:04 <blue_anna> dpeg, why not github?
15:50:21 <blue_anna> I mean it has a wiki and.. you guys are already on git
15:50:58 <doy> being self-hosting is a plus
15:51:20 <blue_anna> omg :)
15:51:22 <blue_anna> Effects of being a popular demigod --
15:51:26 <doy> we don't need to deal with random github downtime, or them changing things around on us, etc
15:51:29 <blue_anna> 1. In levels where random altars can appear, such an altar may be to the Demigod.
15:51:32 <blue_anna> that is awesome :)
15:51:47 <doy> moving our git repo to develz is a goal for the (hopefully near) future, so we can leave sourceforge entirely
15:52:07 <doy> because sourceforge is pretty terrible
15:54:32 <dpeg> blue_anna: glad you like it. :) Be aware that most of my proposal is for flavour, but I really think it would help.
15:54:39 <dpeg> doy: yes
15:55:33 <blue_anna> dpeg, I *think* I could write a randmons system to randomly generate uniques for the altar
15:56:19 <dpeg> blue_anna: yay
15:56:30 <dpeg> Shall I add Demigods to the 0.8 agenda? (joking)
15:57:41 <blue_anna> well I want to wrap up dwarf hall before I take on another project with a ton of patches ,, Im just offering to help once you get going -- do you know the player code well enough to implement the piety?
15:58:19 <dpeg> blue_anna: I don't code =)
15:58:24 <dpeg> I only edit wiki pages.
15:58:27 <blue_anna> :o
16:00:18 <dpeg> Yes, quite inexplicable how I ended up here.
16:01:02 <Zannick> a series of strange events
16:01:18 <bhaak> blue_anna: dpeg is a cruel slave driver. he started by forcing his sweet little sister to do nethack programming for him!
16:02:49 <dpeg> True!
16:03:01 <blue_anna> dpeg, my favorite idea in there is the random uniques hunting you down .. I always thought demigods had too steep an xp curve for what tehy get, and the added xp would help compensate
16:04:09 <dpeg> blue_anna: hey, fine. I just read eronarn's DF comments and there's good stuff in his list.
16:04:40 <blue_anna> I dont like the idea of altars hurting you .. it isnt the *altars* you're worried about, it's your parents' competition (enemy gods).
16:04:46 <blue_anna> dpeg, right on
16:04:54 <blue_anna> just putting in my two cents now
16:05:50 <dpeg> blue_anna: altars hurting DGs it not in the "abstract worshipers" section -- ie. not my idea =)
16:09:44 <blue_anna> there are four things left on my to-do list for dwarf hall
16:10:26 <blue_anna> 1. add lua to generate tunnels in rough (BROWN) stone, so it looks vaguely different from the rest of the game
16:10:49 <blue_anna> 2. add uniques and possibly a giant or two  to the maps
16:11:37 <blue_anna> that includes the alchemist idea, a (non-unique but beastly OOD) giant, maybe one or two more ideas
16:12:12 <blue_anna> 3. add a tomb, and tune up the difficulty fo the final hall since the rest of the place suddenly got 3 times as hard once I tuned it up to the same xp as elf hall
16:12:56 <blue_anna> and 4. maybe add some more monsters, but its "sufficient" now, just not a cornacopia of options yet
16:13:04 <upsy> is the plan for it to replace elf randomly and be similar in difficulty etc?
16:13:26 <blue_anna> it is designed as if thats the plan in case thats what people decide.
16:13:46 <blue_anna> no ones actually told me to do that yet .. and so its not in the code at all
16:13:54 <blue_anna> actually I dont know how to do that
16:14:09 <blue_anna> when you make a branch, it must ALWAYS be generated .. so far as I know
16:14:24 <blue_anna> :) I dont know how lair sub branches do it
16:14:27 <Zannick> one option is to have it exchangeable with elf, so that one of them is always generated
16:14:42 <Zannick> to do that it has to be on par with elf difficulty and loot
16:14:54 <blue_anna> Zannick, yea, that's the design target. its just that the actual implementation is non existant
16:15:02 <Zannick> yes, i realize
16:15:25 <blue_anna> I upped it.. the copy on git hub returns the same xp per level, except depth 5 is only 2/3rds the xp of elf 7
16:15:44 <blue_anna> so it still falls like ... 30k short
16:15:54 <blue_anna> but level-per-level its the same
16:16:30 <blue_anna> it can vary.. all the way down to almost 3k xp .. to all the way up to 19k xp .. its more varied than elf
16:16:39 <blue_anna> I mean total xp per lvl
16:16:56 <blue_anna> elf varies more like 6-14k
16:17:26 <dpeg> blue_anna: I am pressed hard for time these days :/
16:17:38 <dpeg> Cannot play much, happy to have a day mostly free for wiki/Mantis stuff.
16:17:59 <dpeg> But I absolutely support the idea of a deep dwarven branch competing with elf.
16:20:18 <doy> for what it's worth, shoals had a similar struggle for difficulty for pretty much its entire existence, up until the push for 0.6
16:20:48 <doy> and yes, new branches should absolutely be using a new map generator
16:20:58 <doy> we have far too many branches using the standard dungeon generator as it is
16:21:06 <doy> (:
16:24:40 <Zannick> zot :)
16:25:12 <dpeg> Zannick: there are ideas at least, what can I say.
16:25:22 <Zannick> progress!
16:26:02 <kilobyte> doy: layout_delve would need to be recoded as the current implementation is both buggy and abysmally slow, but it works wonders and would be great for Spider's Nest
16:26:03 <blue_anna> hey!
16:26:15 <blue_anna> I just realized, theres no segfault when you exit now :)
16:26:22 <blue_anna> way to go guys :)
16:26:25 <CIA-81> 03dolorous * r2569e61fdf01 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon.txt: Clean up dc-mon.txt a bit more.
16:26:36 <dpeg> Zannick: hm, the wiki has not much. I think the most advanced ideas exist for Vaults and Hive.
16:26:50 <kilobyte> for my Forest, though, my current idea is not that good
16:27:49 <Zannick> hive only has one random level, though; the second is a vault, no?
16:28:06 <Zannick> and vaults is not quite D, though fairly similar
16:28:26 <Zannick> but i see your point
16:30:00 <doy> zot, all the hells except dis, pan, snake, and crypt are all indistinguishable from the regular dungeon, even if there are differences
16:30:15 <doy> and hive, slime, and orc all use the same layout too
16:31:23 <Zannick> yeah
16:31:35 <dpeg> sleep time over here
16:32:13 <kilobyte> Lemuel's idea to apply a cellular automaton is promising
16:32:19 <kilobyte> although I'd use a different one
16:33:01 <kilobyte> his one merely smoothes the edges
16:33:09 <blue_anna> buenas noches europeanos
16:33:10 <doy> yeah, stuff like that is cool
16:33:21 <doy> we need more layout generators
16:37:15 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:41:58 <Eronarn> hexagonal branch!
16:42:17 <Zannick> that would be hive, most likely
17:15:07 <blue_anna> when did wights become z?
17:15:10 <blue_anna> oop
17:20:12 <blue_anna> I object to the wights becoming glyph 'z' in trunk .. why did that happen?
17:20:48 <blue_anna> I almost changed it until I realized I didnt know why
17:22:48 <upsy> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2327 it seems
17:26:21 <upsy> sounds about right...
17:29:42 <doy> why do you object?
17:29:51 <blue_anna> @?wight
17:29:51 <Gretell> wight (15W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 813(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(16), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 58.
17:30:01 <blue_anna> and importantly, the other ghostly drainers:
17:30:04 <blue_anna> @?wraith
17:30:04 <Gretell> wraith (16W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-47 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 1313(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(56), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 210.
17:30:07 <blue_anna> @?shadow wraith
17:30:08 <Gretell> shadow wraith (06W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 39-70 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Damage: 2013(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(106), 03poison | XP: 823.
17:30:21 <doy> but wights aren't ghostly
17:30:23 <doy> that's the thing
17:30:32 <upsy> @??wight
17:30:33 <Gretell> wight (15W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 813(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(16), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 58.
17:30:39 <upsy> hmm
17:30:43 <blue_anna> they were always W
17:30:48 <blue_anna> someone just did the change today
17:30:52 <doy> yes
17:30:53 <upsy> where does gretell get the monster data from?
17:31:11 <doy> upsy: it has its own copy of the source, probably just needs to be updated
17:31:22 <upsy> right, figured it would be something like that
17:31:49 <Eronarn> it'd be nice to compress the undead glyphs a bit
17:31:59 <blue_anna> yea the word itself comes from the word for human
17:32:01 <Eronarn> there's Z, z, W, L
17:32:15 <blue_anna> but in fantasy they .. look at the wiki page
17:32:19 <blue_anna> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wight
17:32:21 <doy> blue_anna: "it has always been foo" is not a valid reason d:
17:32:31 <doy> blue_anna: look at their in-game stats
17:32:45 <doy> that mantis ticket goes into more depth
17:32:57 <blue_anna> doy, okay, from my perspective .. I liked the nice, clean progression as you went deeper in dwarf, from wriaths to wights to other w's
17:33:06 <blue_anna> now its W,z,W .. and thats no big deal
17:33:13 <blue_anna> but thats why it irks me :D
17:33:22 <Eronarn> blue_anna: then don't use wights in dwarf
17:33:26 <Eronarn> they're not spirits, they're basically zombies
17:33:28 <upsy> why that order?
17:33:32 <doy> blue_anna: wights are weaker than wraiths
17:33:33 <Eronarn> except smart and faster and soul-draining
17:33:38 <doy> not sure why they'd be that order
17:33:39 <blue_anna> the other way around
17:34:02 <blue_anna> wights, wraiths, then .. spectral warriors and shadow wraith is a rare possibility
17:34:23 <doy> dropping wights and bumping the rest of the W up would be a decent way to raise difficulty too
17:34:24 <blue_anna> yea so its z,W,W instead of W,z,W .. but you get what I mean?
17:34:27 <doy> (:
17:34:45 <blue_anna> doy difficulty is already on par with elf I think
17:34:49 <blue_anna> I got there
17:34:49 <upsy> I think wights can be different things depending on the folklore
17:34:59 <Eronarn> upsy: sure, but the same goes for dragons, etc.
17:35:01 <Eronarn> crawl has only one version
17:35:02 <blue_anna> I can be evil with spell books too ;)
17:35:04 <upsy> but the crawl ones are like d&d ones?
17:35:07 <Eronarn> yes
17:35:15 <Eronarn> pretty much exactly
17:35:18 <upsy> sure, not objecting to that
17:35:33 <Eronarn> (which, for reference, is cooler anyways)
17:35:36 <blue_anna> I dont really mind but then if I follow dpeg's rule of thumb I really should get rid of wights
17:35:43 <blue_anna> well
17:35:51 <blue_anna> that gives me an excuse to make mylings :)
17:36:06 <blue_anna> mylings are the ghosts children abandoned in the forest ..
17:36:09 <Mu_> i have always assumed wights were wraithlike creatures, so i guess they really were on an inappropriate glyph
17:36:23 <blue_anna> in germanic culture they just abandoned their children, instead of drowning them like the chinese and greeks
17:36:34 <OG17> hey anna, do you remember when I said you were using too many different monsters?
17:36:42 <blue_anna> OG17, no
17:36:50 <blue_anna> there were numerous people saying I was using too few
17:36:52 <OG17> You  have thirty-one on the new page, and some are so rare as to not matter, but
17:36:54 <OG17> hang on
17:36:55 <Eronarn> ...31?!?
17:37:03 <Eronarn> how many elves are there, 15?
17:37:05 <OG17> a dozen new ones
17:37:10 <OG17> seven first-tier, seven second
17:37:14 <blue_anna> more than half are rare enough that you wont see them on the average run
17:37:27 <blue_anna> there's just one type of elf: elf
17:37:31 <blue_anna> vanilla elf
17:37:34 <OG17> why is there an elf
17:37:43 <blue_anna> because of the folklore thing
17:37:49 <Eronarn> there are 15 kinds of deep elves in elf
17:37:52 <OG17> why are they there if no one will see them
17:37:53 <Eronarn> and shapeshifters, and orcs
17:37:56 <blue_anna> elfs and dwarfs are the same in the theme I'm trying to follow
17:38:04 <Eronarn> and that's pretty much it
17:38:04 <OG17> fourteen, I think, and shapeshifters never show up
17:38:05 <blue_anna> so completely leaving them out sucks
17:38:13 <blue_anna> glowing shapeshifters wont
17:38:17 <blue_anna> regular ones will
17:38:22 <Eronarn> oh wait yeah, 14, one of the ones under 'e' was just elf
17:38:47 <OG17> Anyway, it was "What are you trying to do here? You have a dwarf branch, but you're including D1 trash, elves, and a random assortment of bugs, animals, and undead? And hell hounds. I don't know if you're grabbing “thematic” monsters by name or what, but this isn't going to look themed; it's going to look like a depth-confused dungeon level with dwarves, and the monsters won't serve any play purpose, either. Look at the other br
17:38:47 <OG17> anches, get some idea of how things are put together. I'd suggest dwarves, kobold things, and trolls, myself."
17:38:53 <Mu_> shapeshifters always show up in elf, you get like 2-3 :P
17:38:54 <Eronarn> blue_anna: think of elf right now; it is already one of the most diverse branches in terms of threats
17:39:02 <Eronarn> it has half as many monsters as your branch
17:39:03 <OG17> I never see any, I dunno
17:39:32 <blue_anna> lair has to be more diverse than elf
17:39:48 <Eronarn> lair has more monsters, but less monsters that functionally matter
17:40:18 <Eronarn> there are 14 elves, and about 10 of those are very distinct from each other
17:40:39 <blue_anna> there's like 70 different mosnters in lair's rand functions
17:40:44 <OG17> I mean, stuff probably shouldn't be there if it adds nothing but theme, like the bugs, animals, elves, and shifters
17:40:47 <blue_anna> *70*
17:40:56 <blue_anna> 20some should not be too much ;)
17:41:00 <Eronarn> and three of them are different kinds of bears
17:41:03 <OG17> also undead if the death casters summon, or normal casters when you have a bunch of new ones
17:41:06 <Eronarn> four of them are different kinds of rats
17:41:07 <Eronarn> etc.
17:41:15 <OG17> or probably even trolls, what with new troll-pack monsters and melee stuff
17:41:35 <doy> blue_anna: look at the list for elf
17:41:41 <OG17> lair has a lot of stuff that lair doesn't need, yeah
17:41:51 <Eronarn> (here, by the way: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/kielosto/crawl_spoilers/ss/crawl_ss_monsters_by_char.html#e )
17:42:45 <doy> there's not a problem with adding in different kinds of monsters for flavor (although it's not always necessary), but you don't want to make the defining features of your branch watered out
17:43:01 <OG17> elf is well-rounded and cohesive with seven monsters, basically
17:43:25 <doy> shoals is another decent example
17:43:29 <Eronarn> ok i just looked at the list
17:43:37 <blue_anna> elf also has 25
17:43:42 <blue_anna> its almost the same ammount
17:44:01 <OG17> don't count individual orcs, that's silly
17:44:26 <OG17> they don't serve much of any purpose anyway
17:44:35 <OG17> also you better not have counted fungus :|
17:44:38 <Eronarn> this monster list is really whack
17:44:44 <Eronarn> three kinds of witches?
17:44:44 <blue_anna> well Im looking at the list .. mine has 30, they have 25
17:44:46 <blue_anna> elf
17:45:05 <upsy> where is this list?
17:45:05 <blue_anna> its not that different .. and no elf is not diverse, it is just sufficently diverse
17:45:16 <blue_anna> mon-pick.cc
17:45:17 <OG17> elf is sufficiently diverse using seven monsters
17:45:19 <Eronarn> i mean, one of the mis a forest witch? why is there a forest witch in dwarven caves
17:45:24 <blue_anna> OG17, okay, yes
17:45:39 <OG17> also is that witch supposed to be weight five?
17:46:04 <Eronarn> i mean looking at this list - i see 7 dwarves
17:46:11 <Eronarn> you have more than 2x as many non-dwarf monsters as dwarf ones
17:46:23 <blue_anna> OG17, I did read your comment from before, about monter seleciton. its changed _a lot_ since then
17:46:30 <Eronarn> anyways, dinner
17:46:55 <blue_anna> OG17, I got rid of some of the random monsters, the goblins sepcifically that you pointed out, the natural mosnters lot worm, you suggested that
17:47:03 <blue_anna> I'm listening :)
17:47:08 <doy> the rats, spiders, trolls, and random human spellcasters seem like they don't belong
17:47:11 <OG17> it's changed, but barely
17:47:26 <OG17> it's better, sure
17:47:46 <Mu_> lots of stuff might be cool, who knows
17:48:00 <blue_anna> I like it .. the bulk of the levels is .. hold on a sec
17:48:13 <OG17> also dogs
17:48:23 <OG17> surrounding areas are full of this stuff
17:48:26 <blue_anna> this is Dwarf:1
17:48:28 <blue_anna> Monsters: Edmund, 3 nisses, 2 wights, 6 war dogs, baz's ghost, 2 giant centipedes, 16 deep
17:48:28 <blue_anna> dwarves, 3 deep dwarf scions, 6 deep dwarf necromancers, deep dwarf artificer, and 2 deep dwarf
17:48:28 <blue_anna> berserkers.
17:48:28 <blue_anna> _43 monsters, 9095 total exp value (8884 non-uniq)
17:48:41 <blue_anna> that's just one random generation of the level
17:48:44 <doy> why are giant centipedes there
17:48:56 <doy> how do they fit in with the theme at all
17:49:02 <Mu_> though come to think of it the coolest branches thematically are slime and tomb imo and they have the least monster variance :P
17:49:07 <blue_anna> because it is nice to have some creatures in the level that are natural
17:49:07 <doy> and how are they difficulty-appropriate for an elf-replacement?
17:49:15 <doy> Mu_: and shoals
17:49:18 <doy> Mu_: and elf
17:49:30 <OG17> you should look at what the branch needs
17:49:43 <doy> blue_anna: why is it "nice"?
17:49:51 <Mu_> elf is terribly boring until E:7 imo
17:49:53 <blue_anna> doy, lets say they sub for line 1360 :)
17:50:01 <blue_anna> MONS_ORC
17:50:03 <blue_anna> in elf
17:50:11 <doy> blue_anna: that's not an answer
17:50:43 <blue_anna> you changed questions.. the first one was "why is that a replacement" .. thats the line giant centapedes might replace
17:50:46 <upsy> why do orcs show up in elf anyway
17:50:47 <OG17> elf is boring because it's a slog with boring terrain, I think the monsters complement each other nicely
17:50:51 <blue_anna> why is it nice to have natural monsters? mmm
17:50:54 <upsy> that seems thematically weak
17:51:38 <doy> yes, elf is badly in need of a different level layout
17:51:41 <blue_anna> because it just is .. you're not in a modern city, you're in an older, fantasy setting where nature and urbanity were not so distinct.. because there was no bunch of million people anywhere on earth
17:51:52 <Mu_> the only trash elfs i can pick out and say what they do are knights and summoners
17:52:14 <doy> blue_anna: and yet, elves managed to keep centipedes out of their halls d:
17:52:31 <blue_anna> doy, I answered each of your questions in turn. be satisfied
17:52:43 <Mu_> are there any plans for a different monlist for vaults?
17:53:06 <OG17> you can't guess what mages, priests, fighters, and conjurers do :|
17:53:27 <doy> blue_anna: well... i still disagree with you
17:53:36 <Mu_> og17: nothing. they have some ranged attack and die instally
17:53:45 <OG17> ha
17:53:51 <doy> Mu_: there are plans for vaults to get a new monster list, but nothing has really been proposed yet, i think
17:54:00 <OG17> FR: replace all elves with "cloud fodder"
17:54:15 <MarvinPA> elf would be a lot cooler if it was like half as long and the nasty elves showed up earlier occasionally
17:54:27 <doy> MarvinPA: +1
17:54:36 <Mu_> elf is just autoexplore and auto attack, wake me when a knight or summoner comes into view
17:54:44 <OG17> also anna you're giving storytelling way too much importance I think
17:55:08 <OG17> crawl isn't nearly as fluffy as adom or whatever
17:55:47 <blue_anna> monsters I don't myself feel so solid on in my monster lsit are: wight (I guess I'm coidng a smaller wraith now), boring beetle (I was playing with the idea of tying in to being underground more significantly), wizard/necromancer (if there are too many trash humas on the level, these would be the first to go)
17:55:50 <Mu_> you could prolly just specify the dwarfs and then add possible vaults to the branch that include little crypt chambers with the undead stuff etc
17:56:32 <blue_anna> Mu_, thats exactly what it is
17:56:35 <blue_anna> :D
17:56:47 <Mu_> o :p
17:57:17 <OG17> why does this branch need a special "smaller wraith"
17:57:18 <blue_anna> you hit the nail on the head :)
17:57:40 <blue_anna> OG17, you think I can move wraiths up to be depth:1 creatures?
17:57:44 <blue_anna> that's a point
17:57:51 <OG17> also if they're vault-specific, they shouldn't be in the list
17:58:02 <blue_anna> they're not
17:58:07 <blue_anna> I thought about that too
17:58:08 <OG17> I guess?  I dunno how any of this is supposed to be scaled
17:58:12 <doy> yes, wraiths could easily be depth:1
17:58:30 <blue_anna> doy, OG17 sold
17:59:30 <OG17> what's a huldra, incidentally?
17:59:31 <OG17> in-game
17:59:33 <blue_anna> wizards, boring beetles, and wights are out, wraith are depth:!
18:01:08 <blue_anna> its on my github now
18:01:21 <upsy> ten headed huldra
18:02:43 <blue_anna> OG17, https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:dwarf_hall_of_fallen_heroes#monsters
18:02:50 <blue_anna> there's a reasonable description there
18:03:20 <OG17> oh
18:03:27 <upsy> why is H weird for kenku anyway
18:03:30 <upsy> H is bird :|
18:03:37 <upsy> or bird-like
18:03:41 <OG17> H is all over the place
18:03:49 <blue_anna> Hydra on H would be cool
18:03:53 <upsy> it even looks like wings :u
18:03:57 <OG17> minotaurs and hippogriphs
18:04:05 <Mu_> ~hybrids~
18:04:05 <upsy> yeah minotaurs is odder to me
18:04:14 <upsy> they seem more like a c
18:04:29 <OG17> I tried that but then people cried about little things like nagas and centaurs
18:05:14 <Mu_> kenku could easily go onto k anyway couldn't they
18:05:29 <OG17> they're basically big bees, yes
18:05:47 <Zannick> are there any monsters for F?
18:05:51 <OG17> frog
18:05:54 <Zannick> oh, right
18:06:23 <OG17> I is basically free, and q Q
18:06:27 <OG17> maybe more, I don't know
18:06:42 <Zannick> 6, i believe, has nothing with it
18:06:54 <MarvinPA> 6 is gargoyles or something isn't it?
18:06:59 <Zannick> no, that's 9
18:07:02 <MarvinPA> ah yeah
18:07:05 <OG17> anyway anna, just saying you should probably give gameplay more weight and flavor less
18:07:07 <OG17> is all
18:07:11 <Zannick> 6 - an upside down gargoyle
18:07:13 <Mu_> i think 6 was being reserved for demonspawn
18:07:18 <MarvinPA> that's it, yeah
18:07:41 <Zannick> there's an entry vault with all the races, with @ for demonspawn
18:07:45 <Zannick> but that's a vault
18:07:59 <MarvinPA> most of the player races that aren't really implemented are just @
18:08:03 <blue_anna> http://nopaste.dk/p2400
18:08:06 <MarvinPA> like the ones that don't spawn anywhere
18:08:10 <blue_anna> this is a sorted list of used glyphs for monsters
18:08:12 <Zannick> i is mostly free, too, i think
18:08:17 <MarvinPA> i is spriggans
18:08:32 <Eronarn> we should move things on s to i
18:08:33 <Zannick> and I is ice monsters
18:08:35 <Eronarn> and move spriggans to s
18:08:47 <MarvinPA> is anything on I other than ice beasts though?
18:09:05 <blue_anna> nothing
18:09:13 <blue_anna> just ice beast :)
18:09:50 <Zannick> oh, we also have 0 free, then
18:09:53 <Zannick> >.>
18:10:07 <MarvinPA> orb of zot mimics
18:10:09 <blue_anna> and 0, and 6,7,8
18:10:14 <Zannick> oh, right, zot
18:10:20 <blue_anna> lol
18:10:22 <Zannick> yeah, but 7 is trees and 8 are statues
18:10:29 <Zannick> including statue monsters
18:11:20 <Eronarn> 7 is treefolk
18:11:34 <blue_anna> treefolk arent in mon-data.h ...
18:11:38 <Zannick> hahahaha
18:11:42 <Eronarn> they're hiding
18:11:46 <Eronarn> until 1.0
18:11:56 <Mu_> i use 7 for dancing weapons, i think a lot of players do
18:11:57 <Zannick> and...that's it for ascii
18:12:27 <blue_anna> Mu_, how do you do that exactly? I'd use that in my rc file too
18:12:32 <Eronarn> Zannick: ^
18:12:40 <MarvinPA> ^ is traps
18:12:46 <upsy> tree form
18:12:47 <Zannick> Eronarn: i mean, of the ones not in use in crawl yet
18:12:55 <Eronarn> MarvinPA: so? :)
18:12:55 <Mu_> blue_anna:      mon_glyph = dancing weapon : 7
18:13:08 <MarvinPA> :o
18:13:13 <Eronarn> ~ is only used for disturbances right now, it'd be a decent place for some monster
18:13:24 <Zannick> didn't it just change to water?
18:13:35 <Eronarn> did it?
18:13:37 <Zannick> yeah, and } is disturbance now
18:13:41 <Eronarn> oh, neat
18:13:42 <Zannick> or {
18:13:44 <Eronarn> i hadn't noticed
18:13:45 <Zannick> i forget
18:13:45 <blue_anna> Mu_, tysm
18:13:50 <upsy> can you change glyphs to like, weird unicode stuff that way
18:13:56 <Mu_> yeah
18:14:16 <Mu_> i think ??
18:14:18 <upsy> interesting...
18:14:30 <blue_anna> no
18:14:41 <blue_anna> the config file doesnt accept utf-8
18:14:45 <upsy> :(
18:14:46 <blue_anna> I've tried already
18:14:48 * Zannick sets dancing weapons to 6
18:15:02 <blue_anna> since I use my computer in spanish anyway, its all ready to go for that
18:15:20 <Zannick> some people have unicode-looking tilesets
18:15:39 <blue_anna> ß for larger snakes .. would be one thing Id do
18:15:49 <upsy> :)
18:16:04 <Mu_> in options_guide.txt it explains how to do it
18:16:53 <upsy> ah yes
18:17:00 <Mu_> you can refer to characters by number of code points
18:17:05 <Mu_> or*
18:21:20 <blue_anna> if all the player races began with a capital letter it would make sense to give the option to use the racial icon for your race
18:21:36 <blue_anna> with smaller letters its not so much of a visual impact as it aught to be
18:22:17 <blue_anna> @?halfling
18:22:17 <Gretell> unknown monster: "halfling"
18:22:22 <blue_anna> wow
18:22:50 <MarvinPA> but it makes player elves and spriggans look really cute
18:23:17 <blue_anna> I bet it does work for spriggans
18:23:19 <blue_anna> :)
18:23:33 <upsy> there is that option
18:23:34 <Zannick> and characters who reach 27 in axes should become 1s
18:23:38 <upsy> if you mean what i think
18:23:42 <Zannick> :D
18:23:48 <Zannick> "the Executioner"
18:24:08 <upsy> oh wow unicode mode is weird
18:24:11 <blue_anna> right now I have to use : if you.race() == "Troll" then ... wrappers so I only get the races that are substanative
18:24:24 <blue_anna> upsy, unicode mode?
18:24:45 <upsy> char_set=unicode
18:25:20 <blue_anna> upsy, I can use full uncode characters that way? :D
18:25:22 <blue_anna> yippee!!
18:25:33 <upsy> i don't know
18:25:36 <upsy> but i guess
18:25:41 <upsy> also, show_player_species = true
18:25:48 <upsy> in trunk
18:25:50 <kilobyte> Zannick: show_player_species=true will give you a limited version of that...  orcs will be an "orc" (non-Beogh), "orc priest" (Beogh with low piety) or an "orc high priest".  Ogres will be "ogre mages" if their best skill is a spellcasting one
18:26:13 <upsy> oh, that's even better than i thought
18:26:49 <kilobyte> blue_anna: your terminal may be unable to show some characters, so better check them first
18:27:01 <upsy> kilobyte: is this your work? i like the option :)
18:27:20 <MarvinPA> are deep/high/sludge elves all the same?
18:27:25 <MarvinPA> or different coloured 'e'?
18:28:11 <kilobyte> currently just 'e', since there are no monster elves of such races
18:28:20 <CIA-81> 03doy * r6bec839c0e31 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: unify item handling in ignite poison, and handle a few more item types
18:28:44 <MarvinPA> yeah
18:29:10 <blue_anna> kilobyte, yea I was saying, I already use my computer in spanish language natively, so all the utf-8 stuff is set up
18:29:21 <kilobyte> the option maps the display to existing monsters.  I added dummies for halflings, demigods, kenku and demonspawn, but not dwarf/elf subraces
18:29:28 <blue_anna> :w
18:29:31 <blue_anna> oops
18:29:54 <kilobyte> well, any Linux distribution since a long time ago uses UTF-8 by default in any language
18:30:09 <Zannick> kilobyte: my suggestion was mostly a joke on the axes 27 title
18:30:21 <Zao> kilobyte: Except recent Ubuntu, that uses utf-8.
18:30:34 <Zao> (for locales, that is)
18:30:47 <kilobyte> Zao: uhm, that's what I said
18:30:56 <Zao> kilobyte: Case matters, and they break the world when SSHing out.
18:31:03 <Zao> </rant>
18:31:04 <blue_anna> [802] roberto@quad-g5: ~/Código [7:30pm]$ crawl
18:31:05 <blue_anna> Unicode glyphs are not available.
18:31:10 <blue_anna> :P
18:31:16 <doy> blue_anna: you need to install ncursesw probably
18:31:28 <blue_anna> unicode glyphs are not avaiable after the prompt uses it in the pwd is funny :)
18:32:11 <kilobyte> Zao: ah, right.  Maemo for example has it as "en_US" (with UTF-8, not ISO-8859-1), which obviously breaks sshing out too.
18:32:12 <upsy> yay i changed rat to ß as test and it worked
18:32:58 <upsy> though i don't really get the input format
18:32:58 <blue_anna> doy, I have ncursesw installed
18:33:08 <blue_anna> does it need my LANG to say UTF-8 and not utf-8?
18:33:47 <blue_anna> nop its not that either
18:34:21 <kilobyte> if your terminal is not limited to 16 bits (ie, any but xterm, PuTTY and screen), there's a lot of interesting glyphs there... including script/gothic/... letters for mathematical purposes
18:34:35 <upsy> i tried to follow the example in options_guide.txt but that seems to be the html code for the symbol for some reason
18:34:47 <kilobyte> blue_anna: as long as the locale is recognized by your libc, it's ok
18:35:09 <Zannick> the docs seem to say that crawl has to be built with unicode support?
18:35:25 <Zannick> not sure if that means you need a flag on or something
18:35:33 <kilobyte> blue_anna: although Crawl has ugly hacks that should be rewritten... but that's on my table right after I merge save-package
18:35:48 <kilobyte> blue_anna: do you have ncursesw-dev too?
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18:36:12 <kilobyte> blue_anna: on Debian/Ubuntu/..., that's libncursesw5-dev
18:36:15 <blue_anna> kilobyte, yes, I have ruby's ffi-ncurses and that wont install without them
18:36:53 <blue_anna> kilobyte, I have it
18:37:36 <kilobyte> I want to make it mandatory, BTW.  So then Crawl will just refuse to compile.  Using Unicode API for all charsets will fix breakage for anything else than UTF-8 and CP437.
18:40:37 <Ashenzari> Stack five caused crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2473) by Slyker
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18:41:08 <blue_anna> actually I dont want the walls to use the line drawing glyphs from unicode
18:41:14 <blue_anna> I just want unicode mosnters and things
18:41:23 <blue_anna> I prefer the old pound sign for walls :)
18:41:44 <upsy> i think i do too
18:43:17 <Zao> I find that the wall glyphs tend to look quite a lot better without cleartype.
18:43:22 <kilobyte> blue_anna: I do that as well
18:44:44 <upsy> feature = wall {#}
18:45:19 <kilobyte> cset_unicode = wall:x23, door_closed:x2B, door_open:x27, item_book:x221E
18:45:19 <kilobyte> cset_unicode = floor:., cloud:xEB0, item_ring:xB0
18:45:43 <blue_anna> upsy, yea but char_set = unicode isnt working for me .. which is really a trip :)
18:45:44 <kilobyte> uhm, no item_book, cloud or ring
18:46:00 <upsy> oh
18:47:01 <upsy> i am doing this on cdo rather than locally
18:47:16 <kilobyte> wtf... our current code fails if you don't have en_US.UTF-8 available on your system
18:47:40 <kilobyte> in the very next line, it does the right thing: strcmp(nl_langinfo(CODESET), "UTF-8")
18:47:49 <blue_anna> ooh I have to set my locale to en_US ?
18:47:51 <blue_anna> lol
18:48:00 <kilobyte> no, you just need to have it generated
18:48:09 <kilobyte> lemme fix
18:48:10 <blue_anna> its generated
18:48:20 <Zannick> it's relying on the environment variable?
18:48:40 <blue_anna> wow.. its generated, I have ncurses and ncurses dev, and utf-8 .. not sure what it could be
18:49:09 <kilobyte> Zannick: no, it blindly tries to select en_US.UTF-8, and if that fails, it cries even if the system uses some other UTF-8 locale
18:49:24 <Zannick> oops
18:50:27 <blue_anna> ?boggart
18:50:29 <blue_anna> ??boggart
18:50:29 <Henzell> boggart[1/4]: Very weak by themselves until they start summoning, at which point they can be extremely dangerous.  Can instantly summon 8 yaktaurs or slime creatures.  They have very low HP and MR, so zapping or casting disintegration, fireball, paralyze, enslave, confusion, and polymorph are all safe options.
18:50:45 <blue_anna> wow
18:50:50 <kilobyte> beh, it does not set the locale at all in other cases
18:51:18 <kilobyte> I won't kludge it then, if I'm going to rewrite than cleanly in a few days
19:10:24 <blue_anna> we should use q for sheep and yaks and things
19:10:33 <blue_anna> "q"uadrupeds
19:12:56 <Zannick> what should Y be?
19:12:58 <Zannick> yeti?
19:13:19 <blue_anna> Y isone of the symbols that looks like a primative symbol-drawing for elephant
19:13:22 <blue_anna> so Im cool with that
19:17:57 <due> Morning.
19:17:57 <Henzell> due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
19:18:08 <blue_anna> buenos :)
19:18:12 <due> Why do we need to move stuff off Y?
19:18:15 <due> !messages
19:18:15 <Henzell> (1/1) dpeg said (4h 51m 24s ago): Sent a message to r.g.r.m. Would you turn this into a devblog entry? (Some parts need editing, but you'll find out.) Cheers & thanks!
19:19:05 <due> !tell dpeg Sure, will try to do so today.
19:19:05 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
19:20:44 <blue_anna> is there a way to change the highlight color for the player?
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19:35:54 <Ashenzari> Yred's enslaved souls are inconsistent with other monsters (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2474) by OG17
19:38:03 <upsy> hmm, my font isn't very good for the unicode charset
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19:42:44 <blue_anna> I ran strace on crawl to try to see what it is trying to load and failing for utf-8 support .. but I dont even see ENOENT's for stuff ouside of the DCSS folders
19:44:10 <blue_anna> http://nopaste.dk/p2401 .. it finds everything
19:49:27 <upsy> any suggestions for a font with all the symbols?
19:49:49 <CIA-81> 03kilobyte 07save-package * rb57f86755026 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile.obj package.cc syscalls.cc syscalls.h): Use file locking on the save file to prevent corruption from running Crawl twice.
19:51:17 <blue_anna> oo wow
19:51:40 <blue_anna> you have to manually uncomment the #define UNICODE_GLYPHS in AppHdr.h to get unicode support from trunk
19:52:07 <due> Are you sure there isn't a compile-time flaag for it?
19:52:29 <blue_anna> dur no, but I grepped unicode in make8 and found no hits
19:52:45 <blue_anna> well, outside of a makeitem hit I think? I forget
19:57:29 <blue_anna> geez I must have goofed on that, its in there
19:58:56 <due> kilobyte: So how often does it save, and is there a way to remove broken levels?
20:01:01 <Ashenzari> Rename spectral warriors (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2476) by OG17
20:01:01 <Ashenzari> Enslaved soul quirks (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2475) by ledtim
20:16:06 <Ashenzari> Nergalle's spectral orcs shouldn't use equipment (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2477) by OG17
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20:36:13 <Ashenzari> Yredelemenul's enslavement soul's intact soul chance check is a bit too harsh (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2478) by ledtim
20:41:15 <Ashenzari> Yred's enslave soul ability should incur cost on successful use only. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2479) by ledtim
20:44:42 <blue_anna> is this line correctly formatted? cset_unicode = item_weapon:{☭}, item_gold:{€}, item_misc:{¿}
20:45:12 <blue_anna> I have unicode working since I compiled it in :)  slight fix to the code to match multipelf orms of the utf tag in LC_*
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20:56:20 <Ashenzari> Guardian serpents should use snake glyphs, not naga, and shouldn't open doors (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2480) by OG17
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23:03:23 <CIA-81> 03doy * r18fba5da1ffa 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: as far as i can tell, this isn't true (and doesn't look correct anyway)
23:03:35 <CIA-81> 03doy * r1c31074eb6eb 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: unify these (inconsistent) checks, and remove BEAM_FRAG from the list
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23:21:23 <due> what about BEAM_FORG?
23:38:46 <doy> BEAM_FROG - prince ribbit's counterpart to kirke
23:45:38 <due> :D