00:00:07 Jiyva removes his own slime mutations even over overtly bad ones (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1754) by Elreth 00:01:52 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:14 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Fangorn] 01:37:33 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:04 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:46 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:00 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:02 * due finally closed the DS atheism bike shed. 02:27:47 it's not really a bikeshed, it's an NOOOfest 02:27:55 all the DS people are in favor 02:28:24 did dpeg also sign off? if so, no reason not to push the change through right now 02:28:28 "all the DS people"? 02:28:31 it's a fucking stupid change. 02:28:34 me & Cryp71c 02:28:58 it's an infuriatingly annoying nerf. 02:29:42 half of all changes for the better immediately manifest as nerfs. what makes this one untenable? 02:30:21 there's a big difference between a general nerf and a "hey, we're going to insist that all DS are godless". 02:31:01 this is worse than, say, the Great Range Nerf, how? 02:31:38 You can move closer to your enemies. 02:31:44 You can't pick a half-god. 02:38:53 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:22 Let low-level DS have gods and then force them to renounce when they grow older and their demonic heritage grows stronger? :D 02:45:32 A little penance never hurt anyone. Much. 02:46:09 T'would add some strategy in what god to pick then, as their side-effects would matter more. 02:50:04 wow 02:50:43 Napkin: hm? 02:51:22 DS are godless now? 02:51:41 No, I'm against it. 02:51:53 btw @ all: macosx packages for 0.6.1 are still missing 02:52:17 Napkin: Are those hard to build? 02:52:36 I have no idea, Zao 02:52:42 I don't deal with it 02:52:43 argh 02:52:46 Never mind, seems like the uni has torn down its Mac lab. 02:52:54 who disabled the absdepth check against shaft traps? 02:53:15 Detection levels aren't nearly high enough for the comment mentioned. 02:53:35 due: git blame is your friend 02:53:44 Yeah 02:53:50 * due waiting 02:54:27 Ah. 02:54:29 timecircuits. 02:54:59 makes sense, timecircuits is the one who implemented shaft trap pre-detection in the first place 02:55:35 * due fixed. 02:55:54 03due * rcc1af4b350d7 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Disable shaft traps on D:1 and D:2. 02:56:49 I don't see how making DS godless doesn't make sense. I mean, they're bloody *demons*. 02:57:18 Demons worshipping gods sounds ridiculous. 02:57:32 * Madtrixr could see them worshipping evil gods... 02:57:51 I can't see them worshipping. 03:01:25 Why not? 03:01:29 Demons in the abyss worship lugonu. 03:06:41 Is god selection for them limited already? 03:07:31 can't worship, tso, zin, or ely 03:07:39 minus the first comma 03:08:24 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:16:04 (or beogh) 03:16:24 due: only d:2 ? 03:17:05 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:13 D:3 shadfts are acceptable. 03:18:19 i'd make a case that they shouldn't be... however, i do agree that any number as an absolute cutoff point would be somewhat arbitrary 03:19:14 D:3 is when ghosts start to appear 03:19:50 D:2 is when certain $EXPLETIVE uniques appear... 03:21:25 good point, I think D:2 shafts are probably okay 03:21:41 i'm arguing the other way 03:21:53 that d:3 shafts aren't 03:22:03 I know, but I don't have a problem with D:2 sigmund 03:22:14 unfortunately, nor do i 03:24:48 D:2 shaft can drop youto D:5, which is a big drop. 03:55:58 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:42 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:31 due: 0b0f05c8 04:05:52 (D:1 shafts only drop to D:2, D:2 only to D:3 or D:4) 04:06:10 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:07 Luca__: re coding style, I'd suggest to go with Enne's -- that seems to be quite consistent at least 04:08:47 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 04:12:00 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 04:14:56 -!- ogaz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:55 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:36 by: hm. 04:16:55 by: I fell down a D:1 shaft after about 30 turns or so and then died to terence. 04:17:03 I don't particularly mind disabling the shafts early 04:17:16 otoh, I'm not sure making such changes after dying is best :) 04:17:41 I went "wtf, D:1 shaft is bad, will have to fix" before I died :) 04:19:21 I think the D:1 shafts are ok, but if we disable, maybe change the ramp-up so that D:2 allows one level, D:3 two levels, and three from D:4? 04:19:41 I just disabled D:1 and D:2 shafts, though. 04:22:46 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:20 03luca * r30a025b99c54 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.h mgen_data.h mon-util.h): shut up some clang warnings 04:41:39 due: if you want to leave it at this, at least remove the D:1, D:2 special case code? 04:41:48 though I'd prefer a less heavy-handed approach 04:47:04 * due unsure. 04:49:04 I can reply to your commit on c-r-d tonight, and we can see what others think? 04:49:10 Sure! 04:55:45 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:10 hey david 04:57:24 Hallo! 04:57:24 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:57:27 oops 04:57:32 !messages 04:57:32 (1/3) Cryp71c said (2d 8h 30m 37s ago): well, regarding unarmed changes, even if we don't see each other we can catch one another via messages. Would you like to begin testing unarmed effects by merging them into trunk? That wouldn't necessitate that they go along with 0.7, of course. 04:57:34 lots of people wanna talk to you :) 04:57:52 I am less present than I used to be... :/ 04:57:56 :) 05:11:19 Johanna moved from Crawl to NLarn. 05:11:38 I hope she makes an announcement on the mailing list. 05:13:10 dpeg: completely? 05:16:03 did she really? what's nlarn 05:16:37 oh i see 05:23:05 bhaak: she urged me to keep her commit rights. 05:23:18 NLarn used to have only one dev, now they're two. :) 05:23:32 I don't think it's so bad... she's using a lot of Crawl experience over there. 05:24:10 hehe, then I did something wrong. I couldn't keep her at nethack-de :-) 05:24:11 Also, it's good to know who's active in the short term (so jpeg won't be). That's why I am hoping she'll be writing an official mail -- to teach the others how it's done.- 05:24:23 bhaak: yes, you lost. But so did I. Joachim won! 05:24:34 bhaak: let's face it: he has the best background story. 05:25:00 dpeg: nlarn even HAS A STORY! 05:25:06 true 05:25:36 bhaak: yesterday she helped me to include Crawl's story upon game start. It's one line :) 05:25:55 later folks 05:35:30 tried nlarn and apparently took the wrong turn since the first monster I encountered was a silver dragon :P 05:38:48 apparently sitting on thrones isn't a good idea either 05:39:27 there are great ways of getting a lot of experience early and almost safely in nlarn 05:39:49 how 05:41:00 well, you have to grind a few levels of the dungeon for some money and experience first, reading books, and get a ranged attack spell. Then you can get some better armour, usually found in the dungeon, too, and abuse a throne to get a gnome king, and dance around until you manage to lose him and then kill him from range 05:41:13 and similar things can be done with water lords, which appear from fountains 05:41:17 when you drink from them 05:41:56 brb 05:41:56 that strikes me as great design 06:01:14 sounds like nethack 06:02:52 * bhaak gives due an irony detector 06:03:02 Finest quality! German-made! 06:03:39 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:09 The main target of nlarn is to have a larn with up to date UI and be able to run it at all on modern computers :) 06:05:22 the last release before nlarn was 1991 06:05:44 I don't know if johanna and joachim wants to implement big gameplay changes 06:06:30 I'd play nlarn if it had killer tomatoes 06:07:06 nethack has kiiller tomatoes when hallucinating but you aren't playing it! 06:07:09 original larn can run on modern computers 06:07:25 bhaak: zomg, it does?! 06:07:28 the UI is clumsy, but at least it doesn't hurt my eyes with its color scheme :P 06:07:38 I knew it had mothers-in-law when hallucinating, which is dreadful, dreadful 06:07:38 much unlike nlarn 06:08:39 Zaba: Well, to be fair, Crawl has some eye-gouging colours too 06:08:42 greensnark: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Killer_Tomato 06:08:47 Like the disco-floored abyss and Pan levels 06:08:52 And the Snake Pit 06:08:53 crawl doesn't have red backgrounds 06:08:58 Zaba: It does :P 06:09:07 Oh, you mean as an overall background colour? 06:09:07 it doesn't have them on each and every opportunity :P 06:09:30 nlarn's got all menus and prompts on red background 06:10:02 either a new feature or a bug? http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=239952 06:10:36 Zaba: it's possible that joachim meant "windows machines" when he said "modern machines" :) 06:10:58 bhaak: rodent of unusual size <3 06:11:18 I see it also has ninja turtles 06:12:13 bhaak, I thought 'modern' meant something newer than PDP-11 06:14:13 Zaba: larn isn't THAT old :) 06:14:22 well, indeed, not even rogue is 06:14:46 but I have larn running on a netbsd-current box, which is in turn running on modern hardware :P 06:18:25 greensnark, ur nakd. 06:18:30 (Not any more!) 06:21:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:53 Incognito is a better word 06:22:54 I see we have some high level Shoals drownings 06:23:01 This fills me with a dark glee 06:23:14 Teach them to wait till XL 27 to go to Shoals 06:23:45 Napkin: Nice game by Germany yesterday :) 06:24:26 agreed :) 06:24:55 i had wished for australia to have a goal too though 06:25:10 Well, the red card certainly didn't help them 06:25:22 yeah, that was a bit harsh 06:25:47 maybe because he was being target by a few fouls prior - no clue 06:26:05 definitely too harsh 06:26:15 But anyway, Australia had no chance :) 06:26:30 They looked like Gastronok surrounded by spriggans :) 06:26:35 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:47 :) 06:27:41 some of the network guys from above brought a dvb-t stick to work and is streaming to the network ;> 06:27:51 :) 06:27:51 *are streaming 06:27:59 netherlands vs denmark now 06:28:06 One of my previous jobs we had a huge projector for World Cup games 06:28:15 hehe, nice 06:28:22 2006 that was 06:29:00 dvb-t? 06:29:41 digital video broadcast via terrestrial antenna 06:29:49 some standard 06:29:57 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:09 like dvb-s(atelite) & dvb-c(able) 06:30:44 If you have both teleportitis and teleport control you can cancel the random teleport, thus effectively negating the mutation. Is this intended? 06:30:53 Napkin: he, don't forget the ill-conceived dvb-h(andy) :-) 06:30:54 oh, nice 06:31:15 via cellular telephone? HEHE. 06:31:18 lol, there is no such thing, bhaak :-P 06:31:26 that would be cool. 06:31:32 no more! 06:31:44 yeah, for some reason a cellular phone is called "handy" (pronounced english) in german :D 06:31:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-H 06:32:01 Amonchakad: you get glow for that 06:32:10 Napkin: I knew that! 06:32:27 lol, dvb-h(andheld) - indeed :D 06:32:38 it's actually "handheld" but the commercial from telecom for that last WC had it as prime example for watching live soccer on your mobile 06:32:52 it utterly failed and now we have iphones :-) 06:32:55 :) 06:33:02 I remembver that 06:33:05 Samsung, wasn't it? 06:38:26 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 07:09:53 bhaak: Johanna has been doing gameplay changes all the time already. Right now, she's doing a "combat overhaul". 07:14:42 Does it involve killer tomatoes 07:16:46 not yet 07:16:58 But they need better monsters, Johanna told me. 07:17:42 tell her to add snarks of various colours 07:18:18 I propose alpaca 07:18:29 And armoured llama 07:18:42 With extremely accurate spit attacks 07:19:06 ah 07:19:07 don't forget testudines 07:19:19 better monsters? nethack and crawl has lots of monsters :) 07:19:49 bhaak: NetHack should add pastel dragons just to mock its own dragon colours :P 07:19:53 Or paisley dragons 07:19:59 How about plaid dragons 07:20:10 Fuchsia dragons sound promising too 07:20:14 Plaid dragon <3. 07:20:28 Polite dragon. 07:20:39 "Would you mind if I bite off your head?" 07:20:46 tentacle monstrosities, but explicitely coloured pink, so there are no questions whether they're related to hentai or not 07:20:53 :P 07:21:37 hmmm, scrambling and distorting the the color names for dragons when hallucinating 07:22:06 sounds great! we already have a function that does that automatically to color names :) 07:28:56 hey larn has a time stop spell :P 07:29:13 and an interesting spell system! 07:31:20 It has mirrors as furniture, too. 07:31:30 Are they real mirrors though 07:31:33 unfortunately, mirrors don't work like warpzones 07:31:37 Can you see dungeon features reflected behind them 07:31:42 you can't see through them 07:31:42 And monsters 07:31:48 Ok, so they don't count :P 07:31:55 and can't walk into them by accident! 07:32:07 but they reflect (some?) spells 07:32:34 Vampires cannot walk over them, at last. 07:32:42 greensnark: I don't think you can get cool mirrors in console. 07:32:50 dpeg: Why not? 07:32:58 Seems perfectly achievable :) 07:33:20 Especially in Crawl where you have all those lovely darkgrey symbols free 07:33:40 Just colour all reflections darkgrey and you're set :) 07:33:43 why'd they be darkgrey? 07:34:04 Zaba: Just so dpeg doesn't complain about reflections being indistinguishable from the real thing 07:34:11 Call them mirrors made with smoked glass :P 07:34:12 but that's the point, isn't it? :P 07:34:25 Zaba: First you do smoked glass mirrors to get your foot in the tent :P 07:34:32 Then you do first class mirrors :P 07:34:34 ah 07:34:52 Just as snapping turtles are just the advance column of the turtle army 07:35:31 Good thing dpeg doesn't read anything in ##crawl-dev without his name in it these days 07:35:43 So we can plot intricate schemes behind his back 07:36:17 good job you just pinged him, then 07:36:20 you need to go to obfuscation 101 07:36:25 casmith789: He'll read just that line :P 07:36:31 lol 07:36:43 at least call him the-one-who-shant-be-named 07:36:50 bhaak: Where's the fun in that 07:37:08 d_p_e_g? 07:37:15 bhaak, but calling somebody the-one-who-shan't-be-named is naming, too 07:38:44 is $dpeg better? 07:38:44 $plog maybe 07:38:44 $faceless_german? 07:38:44 I thought that was you 07:38:44 oh no that could also be Napkin 07:38:48 Oh, you're the $faceless_eszettless_swiss, sorry :) 07:38:50 no, I'm $handsome_swiss 07:39:31 zaba: should I buy spellbooks or something else? I've 2400 07:39:45 I see syllogism has gone off into the nlarn mire 07:39:48 syllogism, spells are good, yes 07:40:23 nlarn looked nice 07:40:31 which is good against a gnome king :P 07:40:39 but why oh why doesn't it have any travel included?! 07:40:45 syllogism, magic missile, sonic spear 07:40:55 Eek Napkin too 07:41:01 syllogism, everything else that kills stuff, too :P 07:41:07 1 day excurse 07:41:40 manual travelling took way too much time 07:41:42 zaba: What's the point of College of Larn 07:42:03 what do the courses do exactly 07:42:04 syllogism, it boost your stats, IIRC, and also you spend time there, letting interest collect in the bank 07:42:16 boosts* 07:42:38 oh, yes 07:42:54 I took some courses and gained 350 gold :P 07:44:07 zaba: can I handle the gnome king at level 4? 07:44:25 not in melee 07:44:31 with magic missile 07:44:32 Are you going to abuse the poor gnome king 07:44:33 yes 07:44:41 That gnome king's life must be a perfect hel 07:45:28 do i keep sitting on the throne until the king appears 07:45:35 syllogism, you try to pry off the gems 07:45:44 Leave the gnome king alone, you vandals :P 07:48:07 xl 4 -> 10 :P 07:48:35 syllogism, exactly :P 07:48:54 syllogism, water lords are also great, but you'll need a book of cure poison before you scum on drinking fountains 07:49:16 I should suggest that gnome king and water lords be made zero-xp 07:50:49 what does donating money do and is there a help file somewhere? Doesn't look like it 07:50:57 syllogism, the source code :P 07:59:39 does the mysterious g key actually do anything :P 07:59:54 syllogism, uh.. perhaps pickup? 08:00:05 "move until something interesting is found" 08:00:28 oh i didn't realize there's a time limit 08:05:58 so do I just quaff from the fountain and hope for best? 08:07:05 syllogism, yes 08:07:15 or, wait 08:07:26 syllogism, you can also wash yourself 08:07:29 that's safer, IIRC.. 08:07:49 can you drink from them at all? Somehow, my memory of that is rather blurry. 08:07:59 yes, it kept draining my stats :P 08:08:11 though i also got infravis 08:08:33 syllogism, ah yes, washing oneself at the fountain is better for getting a water lord 08:09:17 you can only get poison, nothing, or washing dirt off, or a water lord 08:09:33 and you can get many water lords from one fountain, too 08:27:52 "blessed scroll of create artifact", should I just go ahead and read it 08:36:58 -!- dpeg is now known as big_brother 09:12:30 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:44 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:52 !tell dpeg Let me know what you want to do about unarmed_effects 09:24:53 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 09:31:54 by, if I wanted to add a milestone for monstrous DS, do I need to define a value to pass in as type to mark_milestone somewhere? at the moment it looks like the only things used for "type" are keywords like "br.enter" "shaft" and "unique" 09:37:19 Anyone? 09:46:41 Cryp71c: You can essentially make up a suitable milestone type 09:46:52 The game doesn't care, it's only used to query Henzell 09:47:01 How common will this monstrous milestone be? 09:48:07 greensnark, 1/10 of all demonspawn, announced / entered when they get the "demonic heritage" message. 09:48:39 If there's an alternative solution that might work better, it would be welcome. Looking for a means by which monstrous ds can easily be queried by henzell 09:50:50 What level do they get this 09:50:54 What XL 09:51:03 greensnark, can be any level, as early as xl 2, as late as xl 16ish 09:51:17 but between 4 and 7 is most common because of how scheduling occurs. 09:51:19 Go ahead and add a milestone if it helps 09:51:33 As long as the milestone is not too common it doesn't hurt 09:51:48 yeah, it will be pretty uncommon, and only once per game. 09:51:55 are milestones automatically announced in ##crawl? 09:51:59 Yes 09:52:05 ah, well..that's convenient too then. 09:52:06 Unless filtered by Henzell/Gretell 10:20:22 ...and savefile loading in ivan-tty now works on my 64-bit box also :) 10:24:27 jarpiain, is it just me, or is ivan-tty's build system rather messy? 10:29:40 I have automake 1.11 rather than 1.8, and I have to run autoconf, automake and some other obscure command, which modifies all the Makefile.in files and possibly more, before I can compile it. 10:30:39 should learn to use auto* properly 10:31:02 better yet, avoid them at all.. 10:31:10 IIRC I just deleted any references to SDL from the original 0.50 Makefile.ac 10:33:02 configure runs fine, but then make tries to use aclocal-1.8, which I do not have. 10:33:29 afterwards, running make anything results in configure trying to run itself, modifying itself in process, and erroring out with some obscure m4 stuff. 10:33:31 what the hell 10:41:46 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:41 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:57 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:17:37 -!- big_brother is now known as dpeg 11:18:43 zaba: there's nothing at the bottom of the dungeon? Do I have to go to the volcano then? 11:19:40 syllogism: yes 11:19:40 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:20:46 how many levels is the volcano; i'm going to run out of time 11:21:07 dpeg, lol...big brother? 11:23:02 Cryp71c: yeah. ##crawl-dev has been naughty and scheming behind my back. 11:23:09 dpeg, haha 11:23:12 I see 11:23:16 syllogism: three levels, I think 11:23:25 dpeg, btw IDK if you're still watching...but nothing interesting, hooves, colorless scales and spit poison 11:23:40 Cryp71c: I cannot quit those unlucky DSes... 11:23:47 nor I 11:23:48 @whereis dpeque 11:23:48 dpeque the Cleaver (L13 DSFi), a worshipper of Trog, is currently on Lair:8 after 29299 turns. 11:23:57 especially when I find a nice large shield on D:21 11:23:58 D:1* 11:24:11 Cryp71c: if you want, we can talk about the unarmed right now... 11:24:18 Certainly 11:24:27 syllogism, on the bottom of the dungeon, there's an amulet of larn, IIRC 11:24:31 syllogism, the volcano is 3 levels deep 11:24:31 Trixy you! checking your messages in PM with henzell 11:24:39 i found it, though I'm stuck with some cursed amulet 11:26:01 Cryp71c: does "poison" count as a direct kill for PbD purposes? 11:26:08 dpeg, it should 11:26:13 dpeg, but I havn't tested it 11:26:37 Cryp71c: I think I wrote the turn number to you... One could replay that. 11:27:01 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:28:37 dpeg, how can I get old messages? 11:29:18 no idea 11:29:35 how can I replay a certain turn range from my current game? 11:30:23 ??tv 11:30:46 Rod typo (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1756) by OG17 11:30:46 Wizmode crashes on spawned rods (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1755) by OG17 11:30:46 footv[1/4]: telnet termcast.org (and then select the letter for FooTV). do not use SSH. Shows games requested using !tv. Request games by adding -tv to !lg, !lm or !hs, cancel games by adding -tv:cancel to the same command-line, clear playlist with !lg * -tv:nuke 11:31:08 ??lg 11:31:08 listgame[1/5]: Fields: src (cao/cdo), v (game version), sc, name, race, cls, char, xl, sk (skill), sklev, title, ktyp, killer, kaux, place, br, lvl (br depth), ltyp (D, Abyss, ...), hp, mhp, mmhp, dam, str, int, dex, god, piety, pen (penance), start, end, dur (game time), turn, urune, nrune, tmsg, vmsg, alpha, splat. See {listgame examples}. 11:31:17 !lg dpeg turn=turn# -tv 11:31:21 49. dpeg, XL1 HuWz, T:0 requested for FooTV. 11:31:21 dpeg, like that 11:31:28 !lg dpeg turn=turn# -tv:cancel 11:31:28 49. dpeg, XL1 HuWz, T:0 cancel requested for FooTV. 11:31:37 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:09 !lg dpeque turn=29000 -tv 11:33:09 No games for dpeque (turn=29000). 11:33:21 it's the current game... :O 11:33:36 !lm dpeque 11:33:38 776. [2010-06-13] dpeque the Cleaver (L12 DSFi) reached level 8 of the Lair of Beasts on turn 28484. (Lair:8) 11:33:46 dpeg, you're at 28484 11:34:00 hehe 11:34:06 !lg dpeque turn=22000 -tv 11:34:07 No games for dpeque (turn=22000). 11:34:25 ..that's wierd. 11:34:49 what am I supposed to find on volcano 3, a potion? 11:35:13 dpeg, apparently you can't request tv like that, we have to find a milestone near the turn. 11:35:17 syllogism: yes 11:35:32 !lm dpeque turn>22000 11:35:33 243. [2010-06-13] dpeque the Cleaver (L12 DSFi) reached level 8 of the Lair of Beasts on turn 28484. (Lair:8) 11:35:33 Cryp71c: it was an open level in Lair 11:35:46 !lm dpeque turn>15000 11:35:48 306. [2010-06-13] dpeque the Cleaver (L12 DSFi) reached level 8 of the Lair of Beasts on turn 28484. (Lair:8) 11:35:48 !lm dpeque turn<22000 11:35:48 533. [2010-06-13] dpeque the Cleaver (L11 DSFi) killed Harold on turn 20138. (D:10) 11:35:56 !lm dpeque turn<22000 -tv 11:35:56 533. dpeque, XL11 DSFi, T:20138 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 11:36:37 dpeg, that the right area? 11:36:53 no 11:36:59 how long till? 11:37:05 I forgot :( 11:37:24 Have to be observant... the bug will come up again, if there's one. 11:39:12 dpeg, alright, I'll keep an eye out, and will let the regular DS-players to do so as well. 11:39:47 Cryp71c: I am planning a blog entry, where I call for help on certain topics (AC and DS, for example). 11:40:17 what help? 11:40:22 ok, won 11:41:11 syllogism: was fun? 11:41:37 Cryp71c: just playing them and looking for bugs# 11:41:51 it was fine, not that I'll ever play it again 11:41:55 ah, ok 11:41:58 syllogism, what? 11:42:01 !lg syllogism 11:42:02 3026. meneril the Covered (L1 HuFi), quit the game on D:2 on 2010-05-11, with 20 points after 126 turns and 0:00:15. 11:42:03 lnarn 11:44:12 dpeg, did you have time to talk about unarmed? 11:44:21 03dolorous * re3293a3f5237 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Fix Mantis 1756: Typos in recharge-related rod descriptions. 11:46:24 Cryp71c: yes, I have time now 11:47:55 dpeg, k, as I mentioned..its finished for claws/horns/hooves in my branch. 11:49:22 Cryp71c: so bleeding and anti-AC effect (hooves)? 11:49:40 Yes 11:49:54 horns --> headbutt? 11:50:25 yes 11:51:01 Cryp71c: is there something missing? 11:51:26 talons dont have any unarmed effects, but neither did we ever agree on an appropriate affect for them. 11:52:15 03Cryp71c 07unarmed_effects * rcbbe1f3fe35e 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Fix typo 11:52:16 yes, no idea 11:52:23 Cryp71c: did you have one? 11:52:41 dpeg, temporary disarm? to-hit penalty? 11:53:11 -!- Butch has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:46 could be temporary constriction effect (once we have those) 11:54:02 dpeg, would like to keep that in my back pocket for when tentacles are a player mutation 11:54:13 Cryp71c: ah 11:54:13 (hand tentacles, that is) 11:54:28 could give a moment speed penalty? 11:54:37 for the enemy? 11:54:38 that doesn't make a ton of sense, though. 11:54:39 yeah. 11:55:03 Could just not have any effect for talons and give them more damage than hooves? 11:55:17 Not all should necessarily have an effect. 11:55:19 yes, for example 11:56:21 Cryp71c: I had a non-PbD right now -- but I was at full health. Is the PbD status only applied at I don't believe so, it should come up whenever a corpse-kill occurs. 11:57:01 no, it does not 11:57:01 corpse-producing kill* 11:58:02 will hooves have an armour-reducing effect for everyone or just DS? 11:58:25 !lg dpeque -tv 11:58:25 235. dpeque, XL9 DSFi, T:10841 requested for FooTV. 11:58:32 Cryp71c: yes, I killed monsters in melee, with corpse and without PbD. 11:58:48 ...that's not the right game, is it? 11:59:51 no 11:59:57 !lg dpeque -tv:cancel 11:59:57 235. dpeque, XL9 DSFi, T:10841 cancel requested for FooTV. 11:59:58 I died there, in the bailey :) 12:00:32 !lg dpeque 12:00:33 235. dpeque the Chopper (L9 DSFi), worshipper of Trog, slain by an orc warrior (a -1,+0 orcish war axe) in Bailey on 2010-06-03, with 2544 points after 10841 turns and 0:46:05. 12:00:48 why isn't that getting the right game.... 12:02:15 Why do you think that isn't the right game? 12:02:24 greensnark, dpeg has an xl 13+ going right now. 12:02:34 that I'm trying to view. 12:02:36 Why would lg find ongoing games 12:02:48 It has in the past, hasn't it? 12:02:49 !lg 12:02:51 1757. Cryptic the Sneak (L3 DSAs), succumbed to Jessica's poison on D:2 on 2010-06-14, with 171 points after 1069 turns and 0:03:34. 12:03:07 !lg 12:03:08 1757. Cryptic the Sneak (L3 DSAs), succumbed to Jessica's poison on D:2 on 2010-06-14, with 171 points after 1069 turns and 0:03:34. 12:03:12 I guess not.. 12:03:13 lg doesn't know about a game until the game is over 12:03:13 my bad. 12:03:15 For obvious reasons 12:03:34 lm can find milestones for in-progress games 12:03:42 !lm dpeque -tv 12:03:43 777. dpeque, XL13 DSFi, T:30184 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 12:04:08 dpeg, check out your tv make sure this is appropriate as far as the position goes. 12:05:29 was it there, on your goblin kill? 12:05:33 !lm dpeque -tv 12:05:48 778. dpeque, XL13 DSFi, T:32010 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 12:07:02 Cryp71c: no, it was on O:2 12:07:22 dpeg, yeah I saw it on the first request 12:07:30 I think 12:07:52 Cryp71c: ah, cool 12:08:03 !lm dpeque turn=30184 -tv 12:08:04 1. dpeque, XL13 DSFi, T:30184 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 12:11:58 Folks, what happened to the colouring of out-of-sight items? 12:13:58 They used to be coloured, but are grey now? 12:14:04 Or were they always grey? 12:14:43 they always used to keep their colour 12:15:20 KiloByte: but they don't in trunk... 12:15:33 I recall an uproar about that change, but nothing seems to have happened since then. 12:15:42 yeah, in whatever is installed on CDO, it is not 12:16:25 I would suggest to go back to the old state. Losing information from the interface is not good. 12:17:49 right now weapons turn to axes, armour to helmets, etc, only when casting a range-limited spell 12:19:57 KiloByte: hm, in my current CDO game, everything fades into grey, on the main map, and no targeting. 12:21:39 isn't there an option controlling that? 12:21:52 Luca__: well, perhaps someone changed the defaults -- I didn't. 12:22:38 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:00 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:35 I just killed a yaktaur who had no ammunition... who could've polymorphed her? 12:26:07 maybe it ran out? 12:27:10 dpeg: did it have a crossbow? 12:27:35 dpeg: it was probably a shapeshifter 12:27:48 ah, shifter 12:27:50 (which was what sorear was implying I think) 12:27:56 no crossbow 12:28:16 -!- Butch has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:04 Oh Lord, a Rupert paralysis + berserk combo :) 12:30:34 ??git 12:30:34 git[1/2]: git clone git://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref 12:30:39 ??git [2] 12:30:39 git[2/2]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:git 12:31:13 Are saves portable across OSes? 12:31:33 That is, can I point my win32 build of trunk to the saves from my linux x86 tiles saves? 12:31:51 Cryp71c: it is fun how PbD can make you kill the weaklings first. 12:32:18 dpeg, I know, right? I hadnt though about it on implementation, but it really makes a striking difference in ones' tactics. 12:33:01 dpeg, back on unarmed_combat, what would you like to do? obviously I don't think it can make it into the 0.7 release, unless everyone just does massive testing and balance for it. 12:33:54 Cryp71c: I would suggest to add it to trunk (only!) right after we branched. 12:35:50 alright, is there a timeframe for the 0.8 branch? 12:37:15 Cryp71c: If we're good, we manage to release 0.9 in time for the 2011 tournament. 12:37:33 Which is a non-answer, I know. 12:37:41 haha 12:49:49 6 months, then 12:50:05 What version will come after 0.9? 12:50:09 I propose 1.0. 12:50:20 0.A 12:50:22 Ah, the can's lid is open again :) 12:50:43 casmith789: that's not necessary... 0.8 can take longer and 0.9 shorter. 12:50:54 yes I know ;) 12:52:02 I favour 1.0 after 0.9 12:52:55 Of course, that means everything that needs to be done is done :P 12:53:01 So get cracking 12:53:10 I still like casmith789's idea :P 12:53:13 :D 12:54:37 lol, dpeg. just any message would do.. won't open ticket for "better message", since there is none yet ;-P 12:54:39 greensnark: 1.0 is fine, if we're willing to delay releases until around 2040. 12:54:51 Napkin: :) 12:55:02 Napkin: if you suggest a message, it's easier. 13:02:33 Just out of interest, when is the enchantments split happening? For 0.7, or 0.8? 13:02:55 casmith789: not 0.7 13:04:29 Ah okay 13:09:08 03greensnark * r174cd80b1074 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abyss.cc decks.cc dungeon.cc dungeon.h): Use dgn_safe_place_map instead of dgn_place_map in abyss.cc and decks.cc to handle map_load_exceptions correctly. 13:14:32 Napkin: erm, how do I add a blog entry again? 13:15:01 login here: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/wp-login.php 13:15:04 dpeg is going to blog! 13:15:08 <3 <3 <3 13:15:15 !coffee dpeg 13:15:16 * Henzell hands dpeg a mug of black coffee, brewed by Snorg. 13:15:17 !whisky dpeg 13:15:23 !tequilashots dpeg 13:15:25 - In the left column select "Posts" 13:15:28 greensnark: I would like to briefly announce my plans for taking over the world tonight. 13:15:31 Damn, we need to implement those 13:15:51 dpeg: Excellent! 13:15:51 - select "Add New" in the submenu that pops below 13:16:35 greensnark: also, I don't drink any of these. After my world domination, there'll be only water and milk. 13:16:38 - please note: don't select or add any tags & choose category "News" if it's supposed to show up in the News instead of in the dev-blog 13:16:53 I think I'll do blog. 13:20:11 you've found the toggle between visual and html editor, dpeg? 13:20:26 choose your poison ;) 13:20:31 teehee @ visual editor 13:24:12 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:29 Rupert should be lightred (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1757) by OG17 13:39:11 We need to ensure dpeg is intoxicated before he posts 13:39:36 greensnark, lol 13:47:17 03greensnark * r0686a9b9f2d0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (sqldbm.cc sqldbm.h): Make Crawl open sqlite dbs using readonly connections where possible, and don't create SQLite transactions unless updating the db. 13:48:05 @??draconian annihilator 13:48:05 white draconian annihilator (12d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 64-96 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 02cold | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2079 | Sp: b.lightning (3d21), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23), teleport self / b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23).. 13:48:56 It should finally be safe to modify .des files with running Crawls active 13:49:05 and database txt files 13:49:08 .des is in SQLite now? 13:49:12 *.dsc 13:49:16 No 13:57:28 did we extend GDR to more than just melee attacks? 14:00:55 dpeg: Not that I know 14:01:41 ok 14:01:49 it was an idea rob mentioned 14:03:57 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:18 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:23 greensnark: does this mean they can be owned by root:root now? 14:11:50 KiloByte: You mean the .des files? 14:12:11 Or the .db and other files 14:12:14 .des were already readonly 14:12:23 I mean .db and the maps stuff 14:12:44 They can be made readonly safely, yes 14:13:00 But only after they're initially created by Crawl 14:13:09 We don't have a precompile makefile target yet 14:13:24 JoachimShipper's patch I corrected and applied yesterday as a side effect moves .dbs to ~/.crawl/ when saves are there, which is secure but suboptimal 14:13:36 ./crawl -builddb 14:14:13 Yes, a -builddb option or similar and a makefile target to trigger it 14:14:34 Is JoachimShipper the Larn maintainer? 14:14:38 yes 14:14:51 Larn or NLarn? 14:14:57 NLarn, sorry 14:14:58 well, he is called Joachim 14:15:02 bhaak would know 14:15:06 -!- Niccus| has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:11 My new proposal is to merge Crawl, NLarn and UnNH into one unholy monolith 14:16:50 Gloorx Vloq could wield Vorpal Blade 14:17:07 We could add water lords to Shoals 14:17:26 greensnark: there should be a Shoals zig level, btw. 14:17:30 And ancient multihued dra^W^W^W fluffy bunnies 14:17:54 dpeg: I thought there already was 14:18:13 It's not very effective though, since there's no water, and very few boss merfolk 14:18:32 -!- Niccus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:45 Just place:Shoals:$, which means the Shoals bosses are underrepresented 14:18:46 greensnark: JoachimShipper? Joachim de Groot is the nlarn maintainer 14:18:47 greensnark: it should have all water, right? 14:18:58 bhaak: thanks 14:19:02 dpeg: A lot of the Zig levels monster pops are broken 14:19:08 bhaak: Ah, just wondering 14:19:32 dpeg: We have a place:Vault:$, but that doesn't really give us a representative Vault:8 population 14:19:41 Because Vault:8 uses lots of 8s in its map 14:19:43 greensnark: I say it once again! I know that you are just evovling crawl to the point that it can handle a nethack mod! 14:19:47 greensnark: that was always broken, I assume? 14:19:50 can't we just roll them by hand? 14:19:52 dpeg: Yes 14:20:00 KiloByte: I added a lot there by hand. 14:20:15 dpeg: I don't really consider Zig finished, it's quite broken in monster population :) 14:20:20 If anyone wants to extend that, I'd be grateful. 14:20:26 greensnark: no :) for that. :/ 14:20:35 -!- dpeg is now known as weepeg 14:20:54 place:Snake:$ is also sad because greater nagas are terribly uncommon without special casing 14:20:58 And so on 14:21:17 -!- Butch has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:29 greensnark: it would be possible to add all the lists by hand. Is that easier/better than trying to have zigs makes sense of Shoals:$ etc? 14:21:31 @??draconian annihilator 14:21:31 white draconian annihilator (12d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 64-96 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 02cold | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2079 | Sp: cold breath (3d20), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23), teleport self. 14:22:54 weepeg: Hand-listing is one solution, but it'll mean the monster mix can go out of sync when the branches are changed 14:23:09 greensnark: that's the obvious drawback, yes. 14:23:17 -!- Niccus| is now known as Niccus 14:23:52 btw, would an insect-only (I'd be willing to add other invertebrae like spiders) zig level be cool, if it featured enough wasps? 14:24:07 greensnark: do you see any conceptual solution to zig populace? 14:24:14 If it featured stronger wasps that didn't become useless the moment the player has PR 14:24:40 weepeg: Not yet 14:24:53 We may have to resort to hand-picked monster lists for no 14:24:54 *now 14:25:34 ok 14:25:47 greensnark: do you reckon this is a 0.7 target? 14:26:49 weepeg: If you want to :) 14:26:59 I'll add it to one of these lists. 14:27:10 But zigs are certainly easier than they should be right now 14:27:17 I hate to hear that. 14:27:39 Is it possible to see numbers of zigs entered and zig deaths? 14:27:56 Hm, players do leave early 14:28:00 !lm * type=zig.enter 14:28:06 35547. [2010-06-14] dlk the Eviscerator (L27 SpEn) entered a Ziggurat on turn 139849. (Zig:1) 14:28:19 Oh right, there was a bug that produced some 20k bogus milestones 14:28:25 !lg * place=Zig 14:28:40 59. dlk the Eviscerator (L27 SpEn), worshipper of Makhleb, blasted by a smoke demon (divine providence) (summoned by Koefuch) in Zig:11 on 2010-06-14, with 618173 points after 141397 turns and 11:39:36. 14:28:58 Zig difficulty can be quite high in Pan levels and other such places 14:29:07 59 deaths? 14:29:11 But the place:Branch:$ generally have overly easy monster pops 14:29:14 Yes, 59 deaths 14:29:55 I think I customised the Orc set. 14:30:07 Yes 14:30:13 And Tomb set 14:30:14 Is that a good model? 14:30:22 Although Tomb set makes greaters too rare :) 14:30:28 weepeg: Yes, that works 14:30:30 Asking b/c I never set foot in a zig :) 14:30:38 greensnark: you can always change the numbers. Pleeeease :) 14:30:41 tomb levels are brutal enough :P 14:30:54 st_: but we want brutal deluxe 14:31:24 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/on-the-way-towards-0-7 14:31:27 weepeg: Oh, I'll take a look :) 14:31:32 ok, blog posted 14:31:52 Not a particularly good piece, but it will hopefully do its job. 14:36:53 Yay Sprint 14:36:56 What about the new Sprint maps 14:37:24 greensnark: I've never seen one, but I have no doubt we'll have one for the tournament. 14:37:40 weepeg: Just as long as it's not a last-minute map :P 14:37:47 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:53 Because last-minute maps are likely to have exploits that will be discovered right after tourney start 14:38:20 greensnark: yes, I plan to playtest the new map(s) a lot, perhaps in a small circle. 14:38:31 The devnull tourney guys introduce a special challenge each year, and afaik they code it up right before the tourney starts 14:38:36 One option would be to unleash the Sprint tournament map in the second week. 14:38:37 With the result that each one is disastrously buggy 14:38:42 yes 14:38:46 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 14:38:50 weepeg: One person playtesting will never catch the exploits :P 14:38:53 Mu defects :) 14:39:00 We can't really do secret maps and hope for it to go well 14:39:05 greensnark: yes, I would ask selected trustable persons for help. 14:39:39 Hm, do I know any trustworthy persons? 14:39:42 * weepeg is unsure. 14:40:00 Well, there are lots more creative minds outside the trusted circle than in :) 14:40:11 Just by simple numbers :) 14:40:24 greensnark: obviously, but it is still possible to do something. 14:42:53 weepeg: I'm just nervous about big changes in middle of tourney :P 14:42:57 That rarely goes well 14:43:26 It's best to have things fully planned and tested in advance 14:43:55 How will Sprint games interact with tourney points? 14:43:58 greensnark: I am planning the mid-tourny Sprint map not for testing purposes, but for a better excitement curve. 14:44:11 greensnark: I will send rax a proposal on rules. 14:44:16 weepeg: I understand, but it might produce excitement in undesirable directions as well :) 14:44:19 greensnark: are you interested in a copy? 14:44:39 I mean, if someone finds a serious Sprint exploit,they could rack up 20 wins before anyone notices 14:44:52 greensnark: in other words: the map should have been dissected and tested (by a handful) before the tournament, but we may want to unleash it later. 14:44:55 weepeg: Sure, but I'll leave the discussions to you two :) 14:45:04 greensnark: oh, don't worry about that. 14:45:16 weepeg: Yes, but i'm not sure a handful of testers will identify all potential issues 14:45:20 A Sprint win will not count like a Crawl win. 14:45:40 Ok 14:45:47 not at all... 14:46:08 rather, Sprint should take the "dive" role of the former tournaments, perhaps a bit more. 14:46:17 Ah 14:46:52 But since players will compete for "first Crawl win" on Aug 1, it seems cool to open up the Sprint season a bit later. 14:47:40 heck, I guess I can come up with rules right now 14:47:56 You will need to dandle some real points for Sprint, otherwise nobody will spend effort on it 14:48:15 2009 tourney had very few players trying XL 1 dives 14:48:19 Apart from you :) 14:49:22 greensnark: I was trying to push my clan. 14:49:32 But my fellow clansmen stabbed me in the back. 14:50:01 Hey, I won two games! 14:50:07 Which is 100% better than my 2008 performance 14:50:21 I'm also nervous about last-minute additions. 14:50:32 We had problems with that last year, too. 14:50:39 Though at least we had nothing quite like the devnull hilarities. 14:51:21 rax: last year the release was a bit late. 14:51:26 The one where any undead could bamf you back to Sokoban was <3 14:52:05 weepeg: And while you are confident in July at the latest, surely you can understand why I might be a touch nervous, since the last release was a bit late? :) 14:52:53 Yes, we really need 0.7 out with a few weeks clearance at least 14:53:07 rax: sure! :) 14:53:23 And if we want secret Sprint maps, we'll need those also upfront 14:53:33 greensnark: absolutely 14:53:47 Ok, great 14:53:59 are there important changes in 0.7 besides sprint? 14:54:17 DK and Th are gone 14:55:04 by: I just made a blog post. 14:55:05 also hi! 14:55:16 -!- weepeg is now known as dpeg 14:56:15 hi 14:56:28 Removed instant stat death!!! 14:56:48 _Whoah_ 14:56:57 Are we fine with clans of 6? Perhaps 4 might be better. 14:57:28 I'm hesitant to change it after having it the same way for two years, although if there's a compelling reason I don't think it would end the universe. 14:57:35 I think dpeg wants to rid himself of underperforming clansmembers :P 14:57:37 People already have clans of 6 extant. 14:58:11 are the 0.6 heavy armour combat penalties still in trunk? 14:58:25 syllogism: sure 14:58:34 do you intend to keep them? 14:59:21 personally, I have no intentions 15:00:35 syllogism: I am playing many fighters, and in my opinion the current state is okay. 15:01:25 current relative difficulty of heavy armour fighter vs. other characters? 15:02:02 I'm not convinced the gdr tweaks are enough to make heavy armour attractive again 15:02:24 This is so hard to judge. I meant to say that plate+shields seems viable to me. 15:02:46 I admit that EV will be more attractive. Since its broken. 15:03:39 My DSFi uses shield, plate, broad axe. @ says that attack speed is quite slow, but it still works. 15:03:56 what level is he 15:04:05 @whereis dpeque 15:04:05 dpeque the Severer (L15 DSFi), a worshipper of Trog, saved on Snake:5 on 2010-06-14 after 46592 turns. 15:04:13 that sounds poor to me 15:04:17 is quite slow >10 ? 15:04:19 why? 15:04:47 it is Your attack speed is below average. 15:04:49 by now 15:04:53 oh 15:05:05 but AC 37 and SH 26 seem to be worth it 15:05:16 (I am lucky with the AC: +10 from mutation) 15:05:43 I'm pretty sure you'd be doing better in a robe 15:05:47 I'm not sure we really need the extreme attack slowdown 15:06:09 by: robe + shield? 15:06:16 But we should get some real numbers before refixing that 15:06:20 dpeg: maybe, yes 15:06:27 or just robe 15:06:45 My statement was only about "viable", not about "better". 15:07:04 greensnark: they seem especially bad if they affect xl1 characters in their starting gear 15:07:12 or it 15:07:35 syllogism: I don't think hand axe + scale (?) is affected. 15:08:31 the ac nerf seems to have shifted penalties from dodging and spellcasting to accuracy and speed 15:08:52 even in quite heavy armour dodging skill is useful now 15:09:15 by: I am not sure that's bad. 15:09:25 dpeg: It makes for less differentiation, no? 15:09:59 I'm all for dodging being good in stuff like ring mail, but moving to plate should really kill it 15:10:14 greensnark: why should the (defensive) approaches be "Armour" or "Dodging", when it could be "Dodging" or "Armour+Dodging", assuming that the dodger will want to train many other skills, but the fighter will focus on fighting? 15:10:27 dpeg: It can be Dodging+Armour in the right armours! 15:10:43 greensnark: that'd be best, yes 15:10:45 If it's dodging+armour in all armours, that seems weird 15:10:49 yes 15:11:35 In all, I'm not sure the 0.6 nerf really did much to help, beyond showing the world that EV is good 15:12:05 attempt to enter shoals crashes game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1758) by angrykoopa 15:12:08 * dpeg drops dead. 15:12:21 We primarily wanted to make heavy armour less useful at the high end, right? 15:12:28 yes 15:12:40 The nerf is pretty killer at the low end :( 15:12:44 It really is very noticeable 15:12:52 greensnark: we got at least two good things out of it: nerfed resistances and meaningful GDR. 15:12:52 I have not played with the recent GDR changes though 15:12:55 so that's something 15:13:10 I doubt that GDR is more meaningful now than in 0.5 15:13:15 Nerfed resistances? 15:13:17 by: has to be 15:13:29 greensnark: rF+ rF++ rF+++ are nerfed 15:13:30 50/20/10 -> 50/30/20 15:13:32 or so 15:13:34 yes 15:13:36 dpeg: But that's unrelated, right? 15:13:44 greensnark: it was the first step in the AC nerf :) 15:13:46 I mean unrelated to the heavy armour change 15:14:05 dpeg: But still unrelated to AC, or am I terrible confused? :) 15:14:25 greensnark: b/c AC would reduce this incoming damage, and then resists would completely cancel it 15:14:34 well ac now gets checked before resistances (?), so that somewhat affects heavy armour 15:14:36 otherwise unrelated, yes 15:14:44 Ok, not directly connected 15:15:15 by: iiuc, GDR used to be a red herring. It is strictly better now. If it's good enough, I cannot say. 15:15:30 dpeg: it used to be better 15:15:34 syllogism: when? 15:15:36 but it was still a red herring :P 15:15:41 before nerf 15:15:45 huh? 15:16:04 right now, it guarantees you some damage reduction, without taking skill into account? 15:16:08 It was better than that? 15:17:10 it's possible it's in some cases better than it used to be, but not overall 15:17:29 I feel cheated and confused. 15:17:39 I am just not good enough for this, I should resign along with Johanna. 15:18:24 !coffee dpeg 15:18:24 * Henzell hands dpeg a barrel of irish coffee, brewed by Cerebov. 15:18:28 gdr has always been confusing 15:18:45 I loathe coffee. 15:18:55 You also loathe alcohol :P 15:19:04 not as much as coffee 15:19:11 -!- dpeg is now known as beerpeg 15:19:29 * greensnark likes coffee. 15:19:34 Black. 15:19:36 * syllogism does too 15:19:37 Okay, so I completely fucked up the AC overhaul. You're free to roll it back. 15:19:47 I think the ac nerf is fine 15:19:50 I should restrict to gods, vaults and interface. 15:20:06 beerpeg: I think the nerf is fine apart from the attack speed pwnage 15:20:09 gdr nerf is a mystery really, we need stats 15:20:54 i say keep the new accuracy penalties, get rid of the attack speed penalties 15:21:10 syllogism: I thought that by's new system is fairly simple. 15:21:11 I agree that we need good numbers before making the next move 15:21:12 ??gdr 15:21:12 gdr[1/1]: Guaranteed melee damage reduction in 0.6 is ((body armour base AC) * (13 + armour skill)/17) % 15:21:23 this is dated 15:21:35 Well, it's for 0.6 15:21:37 yes 15:21:47 it is simpler for 0.7 15:22:43 the gdr percentage formula is easy to understand; the effect that number has on overall damage reduction less so 15:22:47 beerpeg: it's now simpler numerically, but the actual impact still isn't clear 15:23:30 if your gdr is 19% and ac 25, how much does that actually help 15:26:26 Since GDR effectiveness depends on max_damage where max_damage is very poorly defined 15:26:49 Essentially the max damage of the monster's weapon + base attack 15:27:10 gdr should definitely work against non-magical missiles 15:27:33 that is, all ranged weapons 15:27:33 That would help quite a bit 15:27:49 Early attack speed probably still needs fixing though :) 15:27:52 yes 15:28:51 I think everyone agreed to the proposal (by by?) of extending GDR to ranged attacks. 15:29:00 Has that already been done? 15:29:23 Doesn't seem to be in yet 15:30:19 no, we just talked about this earlier 15:30:22 nothing came out of it 15:30:27 Hm, what's the best way to analyse the AC/EV standoff 15:30:43 If we're gathering stats, I mean 15:31:08 by did some stats gathering, should ask him. Fsim needs some work 15:31:38 * greensnark pokes by with an ankus. 15:32:32 03Cryp71c * r2465aa8bae12 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Remove deprecated special-case code 15:32:42 03Cryp71c * r123089f2809a 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix missing #ifdef for milestone 15:32:45 03Cryp71c * r5555eebb6920 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Add milestone for monstrous 15:32:45 03Cryp71c * rf94b218f2ef9 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Demonspawn conflicting mutations 15:40:46 ...milestone? 15:40:55 really, Cryp71c? 15:41:55 sorear: yes, he wants information on the monstrous DS. 15:42:23 Could we suppress the milestone from ##crawl? 15:42:30 beerpeg, that's fine with me 15:42:38 I only don't know how to do it 15:42:53 greensnark, can you do that? (suppress monstrous milestones from ##crawl) 15:43:34 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:45 Mu_: Hi! 15:43:49 sorear, its of fairly little use for the player (aside from making fun queries), but is highly useful for drawing at least basic conclusions on monstrous gameplay. 15:43:53 hello 15:44:41 I can suppress milestones, though it might take me a bit. 15:44:46 Mu_: we've been talking about you. greensnark is inquiring daily about the Sprint map :) 15:44:47 Cryp71c: I can suppress it, but I'll wait for the milestones to pop up first 15:44:52 (I can only suppress them on Henzell, though, not Gretell) 15:44:52 greensnark, thanks 15:46:14 beerpeg: i'm sorry, i stopped working on it while waiting for the way noise works in sprint to be changed, and then i guess i just forgot. 15:47:39 -!- beerpeg is now known as deerpeg 15:47:51 Mu_: Do you think you can get into it again? 15:48:23 Mu_: I would also look into the map, if that helps. (But to be honest, time is scarce and will keep doing so until early July.) 15:48:42 And the other guys said that pruning noise for Sprint is easy. 15:50:13 at the moment trying to test the maps is kind of obnoxious due to everything immediately waking up 15:50:13 Oh right, Sprint noise 15:50:31 What was the proposal? Just reduce noise as sqrt(original)? 15:50:59 if that gets adjusted i'll go back to working on it but i don't think i'm very good at making sprint maps really :) i see no reason not to finish it, though, and let you see what you think 15:51:24 greensnark: I am not sure we had a specific proposal... 15:52:15 Well, currently all monsters within a radius of the noise are kicked awake 15:53:20 greensnark: if you think that sqrt() is a good clamp, by all means commit it, please. 15:53:38 sqrt might be a lot, I need to look at some noise level 15:53:42 *levels 15:55:11 greensnark, 125 for most of the unarmed effects..200ish for fireball explosions, iirc. 15:55:33 That's just a multiplier 15:55:36 ah, k 15:55:39 The actual noise is boiled down to a distance 15:57:57 I know next to nothing about gathering ac/ev/whatever stats -- just used fsim 15:58:17 (and modified it to not test every value of armour and dodging skill) 15:58:52 Hmm 15:59:36 also, don't think applying gdr to physical ranged attacks was my idea, though it sounds good 16:00:30 by: What's a good noise reduction function for Sprint? :P 16:01:26 I'm leaning toward just dist/3 for Sprint 16:01:52 hmm, sprint noise balance is really noticeable as a player 16:02:07 greensnark: if you start with some function, it will be possible to tweak it :) 16:02:07 I'd imagine you could change the game quite radically with rather minor changes to it 16:02:24 deerpeg: Nobody's playing Sprint these days! 16:02:35 !lg * Sprint 16:02:36 23513. Clapper the Nimble (L4 SpAs), slain by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on Sprint on 2010-06-14, with 155 points after 103 turns and 0:01:44. 16:02:44 Ok, maybe someone is :P 16:02:44 !lg * sprint win 16:02:45 27. pointless the Bewitcher (L12 SpEn), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-05-26, with 274568 points after 3194 turns and 0:30:03. 16:02:53 !lg * sprint win -2 16:02:54 26. rob the Impaler (L12 MfCr), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-04-09, with 280009 points after 4749 turns and 0:34:51. 16:03:33 greensnark: dist/3 sounds fine -- are there any noises < 3? 16:03:33 greensnark: need a new dru^H^H^Hmap 16:03:37 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:39 greensnark: it's frustrating dying at least 3-4 times in a row before getting past the first 3 monsters only to repeatedly splat to sonja or something 16:03:45 only won twice in over two months? 16:03:48 (goddamn sonja) 16:03:56 by: Combat noise can weigh in <3 16:04:14 but it shouldn't matter anyway 16:04:14 ogaz: that's subjective. I loved everything about Sprint, and I played it obsessively until I had three very different wins. 16:04:22 !gamesby * sprint 16:04:23 * has played 23513 games, between 20100228 and 20100614, won 27 (0.1%), high score 293246, total score 15956289, total turns 6956424, total time 682:52:37. 16:04:31 !gamesby * sprint xl>5 16:04:32 * (xl>5) has played 3748 games, between 20100228 and 20100614, won 27 (0.7%), high score 293246, total score 14225402, total turns 2893236, total time 406:12:24. 16:04:51 !gamesby * sprint start>2010-04-01 16:04:51 * (start>2010-04-01) has played 5996 games, between 20100401 and 20100614, won 2 (0.0%), high score 280009, total score 2308855, total turns 1263049, total time 140:42:41. 16:04:58 !gamesby * sprint start>2010-04-01 xl>5 16:04:59 * (start>2010-04-01 xl>5) has played 884 games, between 20100401 and 20100614, won 2 (0.2%), high score 280009, total score 1810168, total turns 535068, total time 69:48:35. 16:05:47 ogaz: Yeah, that's why I never got into Sprint :) 16:05:49 I still think Sonja must somehow cheat in Sprint 16:05:54 deerpeg: if I can get past the ogre, sigmund, and ijyb without having sonja pop out and pulverize me at XL5, it's really fun, but all too often I end up replaying the opening 5+ times in 10 minutes, and it gets a bit repetitive for me. When I do get past the opening, though, it is amazing 16:06:01 Sonja is awesome in SPrint 16:06:16 ogaz: you play the wrong combos :P 16:06:25 !lg dpeg Sprint s=char 16:06:27 226 games for dpeg: 141x TrHu, 40x TrBe, 13x TrDK, 12x OgDK, 5x OgBe, 3x SpAs, 2x HECj, 2x DDNe, 2x HEAE, 2x SpWr, 2x HuIE, 1x DGTm, 1x KoSu 16:06:40 !lg . Sprint s=char 16:06:41 192 games for ogaz: 77x MfCr, 37x TrBe, 25x SpCK, 20x DEFE, 15x MDCK, 6x DDHe, 4x DECj, 3x SpAs, 3x DEIE, 1x NaAr, 1x KeFE 16:06:44 I've never come close to winning in Sprint :P 16:06:47 !lg * sprint s=killer 16:06:47 23513 games for *: 5828x an ogre, 3909x Ijyb, 3829x , 3089x Sigmund, 1496x a centaur warrior, 957x a giant amoeba, 577x a demonic crawler, 536x a rock troll, 459x Sonja, 450x an elephant slug, 237x a jelly, 145x a smoke demon, 107x a Lorocyproca, 99x a lemure, 97x a hellwing, 94x an ufetubus, 84x a small abomination, 80x a white imp, 76x an unseen horror, 71x an orange demon, 66x a fire giant, 65x... 16:06:51 !lg . Sprint s=char 16:06:51 27 games for greensnark: 15x HuFE, 6x HuGl, 4x HEFE, 1x HuBe, 1x TrBe 16:06:56 I've won once and come close to winning two other times 16:07:17 450x elephant slug :P 16:07:29 !lg . sprint s=killer 16:07:30 363 games for by: 93x an ogre, 69x Ijyb, 59x , 36x Sigmund, 26x a centaur warrior, 19x a giant amoeba, 12x a demonic crawler, 10x a rock troll, 7x Sonja, 4x an elephant slug, 3x a Lorocyproca, 3x a jelly, 2x a ynoxinul, 2x a 12-headed hydra, 2x the 27-headed Lernaean hydra, 1x a neqoxec, 1x an Executioner, 1x a small abomination, 1x a hog, 1x an ice devil, 1x a kobold, 1x an ufetubus, 1x a fire gi... 16:07:37 !lg . sprint s=killer 16:07:37 27 games for greensnark: 15x an ogre, 4x Sigmund, 2x Sonja, 2x a centaur warrior, 2x Ijyb, 1x a Lorocyproca, 1x 16:07:51 sonja gets a lot of indirect kills 16:07:55 Yes 16:09:58 in my last game sonja distorted me to the lernaean hydra :( 16:10:11 ogaz: I got that too! 16:10:18 I was hoping to win by distorting to the orb 16:10:19 Sonja with a distorter = win 16:11:02 Ok, success, Ijyb yelling like an insane thing didn't wake up Sigmund or the ogre 16:11:37 the whole strategy at the start of Sprint is based around trying to take on the first three creatures at once 16:11:40 because that's what generally happens 16:12:41 greensnark: is stealth then still useful in Sprint? 16:12:47 ais523: no 16:13:05 You can kill them nicely one by one, given the proper combo. 16:13:14 SpEn = berserk the first 3 16:13:15 I usually kill ijyb+ogre at once 16:13:32 sure, with rage you want them all at once 16:13:42 03greensnark * r6b4570bdabf4 10/crawl-ref/source/shout.cc: Reduce noise travel distance by 1/3 for Sprint. 16:13:48 Rage might be trickier now because it's hard to wake up the ogre :P 16:14:00 Maybe we should allow shouting to travel farther 16:14:03 normally I used tt to wake them 16:14:24 because they were going to wake up anyway, and I'd rather it happens when I know rather than randomly in the middle of combat 16:15:37 Ok, now all we need is to schlep this on cdo so dpeg can playtest a bit for us :) 16:15:57 !coffee Napkin 16:15:57 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of café au lait, brewed by Snorg. 16:16:49 What Sprint version does cdo run, I wonder 16:17:03 don't drink it, Napkin! It's obviously a potion of rage 16:17:24 Hey, it's free coffee. Drink up 16:17:34 I don't think he's around :'( 16:17:39 oh, sprint is quite old 16:17:48 Hey, he's here! 16:17:52 !coffee Napkin 16:17:52 * Henzell hands Napkin a pot of black coffee, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 16:17:53 hey :) 16:18:06 installing it is a bit handy work, sadly 16:18:19 i'll do that tomorrow at work :) 16:18:27 When did Sprint go into the source tree? Was it 0.6 or after? 16:18:36 after 16:18:36 after 16:18:46 before 0.6 was released, but in 0.7 tree 16:18:54 Ah, ok 16:19:15 if sprint would have it's own save games.. then install would be soooo much easier ;> 16:19:33 Napkin: You could compile it with a custom savedir? :) 16:19:51 that wouldn't help, same situation as currently 16:20:13 What would help? having a way to distinguish sprint saves from regular saves? 16:20:19 i mean, it is and needs to be compiled with custom savedir 16:20:28 Or maybe putting regular saves in one subdir and sprint in another 16:20:44 well, i don't know which is the better choice 16:21:07 but if i could use the "crawl-svn" binary to start trunk game _and_ sprint game 16:21:16 A name suffix like Napkin-1000-spr.001 maybe 16:21:24 it wouldn't need a separate install/infrastructure 16:21:36 Yes, that would be best 16:21:58 How does the savegame transfer script identify the player's saves? 16:22:16 checking, 1s 16:22:17 Will it move $player-$uid-extra.chr as well as $player-$uid.chr? 16:22:46 SAVE_FOUND="$(ls -1rt ${PREFIX}/${BINARY_MAIN_NAME}-*/saves/${CHAR_NAME}-${USER_ID}.sav ${PREFIX}/${BINARY_MAIN_NAME}-*/saves/${CHAR_NAME}-${USER_ID}.chr 2>/dev/null | head -n 1)" 16:23:02 Ok, so no extras 16:23:14 well 16:23:35 a separate script for sprint would be ok 16:24:00 and i would match for ${CHAR_NAME}-${USER_ID}-spr.sav then 16:24:14 Ok 16:24:19 Well .chr now, right? 16:24:32 pardon? 16:24:40 There's no .sav any more, is there? 16:24:45 there is 16:25:04 otherwise the script wouldn't work anymore 16:25:08 does it still work? :D 16:25:23 I thought .sav was renamed to .chr some weeks back 16:25:36 And my local game isn't creating any .sav :) 16:25:39 heh 16:25:53 well then, nobody realized it's not working anymore :D 16:26:11 oh, wait 16:26:31 i kept the .sav & .chr 16:26:37 right, now I remember 16:26:43 Yes, that line has both 16:26:54 I just ignored the wrapped second line :) 16:27:02 copy&paste with one eye asleep already :-$ 16:27:15 didn't read it either ;) 16:28:46 well, the SAVE_FOUND decides whether to check for new version or not 16:28:57 gee, i'm too tired to think at the moment 16:29:11 let's think about it again tomorrow? 16:30:17 also, should milestones & logfile be mixed? 16:30:25 there already is a scores-sprint 16:31:30 hell, you are quite a few hours ahead of me - how come you ask me such difficult questions at this hour! :-P 16:31:39 off to bed o/ 16:31:44 :) 16:31:48 tomorrow? :) 16:31:58 Yeah, I should head off 16:32:19 -!- Luca__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:23 nights everyone 16:32:27 g'night 16:32:39 -!- Luca__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:55 -!- deerpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 16:47:57 the sprint and normal crawl saves need to be distinguished anyway for the start menu to work properly 16:51:22 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:50 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:47 morning all 17:00:37 greensnark: are you sure your new Abyss code actually places exits? 17:02:42 Crash in treasure trove (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1759) by angrykoopa 17:03:15 hmm, right, I found a 0.7-a milestone from today, nevermind 17:20:09 -!- Butch has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33:59 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:11 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 17:45:03 due: the real Mara is easy to find out, only she uses a branded weapon (usually), unlike her summons 18:01:00 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 18:16:18 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:34 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:33:09 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:52 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:34 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:32 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:24 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:42 03dolorous * reffae6884c7f 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 19:31:19 -!- Eronarn has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:54 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:43:44 Small suggestion: the text "moving in this stuff is going to be slow" that appears when you enter shallow water should print after the initial line about "There is some shallow water here." 19:45:40 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:14 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 19:49:54 -!- Niccus has quit [Quit: out] 19:50:11 -!- Niccus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:58 KiloByte: Mara's weapon is identical and cloned... 19:51:32 So the clones use whatever weapon Mara uses. 20:28:53 Crash on killing scorpion on D:8 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1760) by mwoody 20:30:53 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 21:02:17 -!- Niccus| has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:06 03pointless_ 07articulated_kraken * re7a989c3f29b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mislead.cc mon-behv.cc mon-stuff.cc monster.cc spells1.cc): Cleanup and special casing for kraken tentacles 21:04:17 03pointless_ 07articulated_kraken * r09f8f1814d18 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Don't consider tentacles firewood 21:05:15 -!- Niccus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:27 hello friends 21:20:13 Hello 21:21:16 what is up 21:29:08 doy: FYI, delay_message_clear is under fire again on crd 21:30:50 yay wank 21:32:09 -!- Niccus| is now known as Niccus 22:48:04 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:54:52 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:36 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:37 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:08:59 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 23:29:58 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:07 -!- Vandal| has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:00 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:14 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]