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05:02:48 <due> greensnark: Don't you have a CDO account?
05:02:58 <greensnark> I do
05:03:07 <greensnark> But I think savefile ownership is intricate
05:03:13 <due> True.
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09:52:50 <Enne> neunon_: If I'm merging changes from ixtli, is there a good way for me to sign off on all the individual changes in git to show that I was the one who looked at them?
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11:13:50 <ixtli> so
11:13:51 <ixtli> http://drop.io/vxvyvut/asset/tiles-png
11:13:58 <ixtli> this is a header dep graph that i generated with a script
11:13:59 <ixtli> :)
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11:24:25 <felirx> am I supposed to actually make some sense of that ;D
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11:27:16 <bhaak> not every visualisation is helpful :)
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11:29:11 <syllogism> greensnark: should I go splat in shoals? :P
11:29:17 <syllogism> or do you not take pity deaths :P
11:29:24 <bhaak> ixtli: a radial layout might make it look better
11:29:29 <ixtli> indeed
11:29:46 <greensnark> syllogism: Don't pollute the Shoals record :P
11:29:53 <ixtli> felirx: im working on it
11:29:56 <ixtli> bhaak: http://sprunge.us/MGNe
11:30:00 <ixtli> that's the .dot
11:30:30 <syllogism> I could pollute Swamp :P
11:31:28 <Ashenzari> Exclusions don't work in pan. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1519) by casmith789
11:32:34 <bhaak> ixtli: I'll first have to macport graphviz, but there are two commandos in the graphviz distribution that do radial layouts: twopi and circo
11:33:18 <greensnark> syllogism: Pollute Snake instead, it's already well ahead
11:33:28 <greensnark> !lg * 0.6 place=Snake|Swamp|Shoals s=br
11:33:30 <Henzell> 189 games for * (0.6 place=Snake|Swamp|Shoals): 74x Snake, 59x Shoals, 56x Swamp
11:34:07 <ogaz> !lg * 0.6.0 place=Snake|Swamp|Shoals s=br
11:34:09 <Henzell> 189 games for * (0.6.0 place=Snake|Swamp|Shoals): 74x Snake, 59x Shoals, 56x Swamp
11:34:31 <greensnark> I keep seeing questions on ##crawl on the lines of "So I've done Slime and Snake and Vaults and Elf, should I do Zot or Shoals?"
11:34:36 <greensnark> I mean, seriously
11:34:50 <syllogism> you need to make it more inviting
11:34:55 <ixtli> bhaak: Yeah I haven't really looked into graphviz itself yet.
11:35:01 <syllogism> maybe promises of portal vaults
11:35:03 <greensnark> And someone in the giantitp thread said Shoals:5 is worse than Zot
11:35:03 <ixtli> I usually use it for simple hierarchies
11:35:09 <ixtli> This is going to require some work :)
11:35:12 <syllogism> giantitp?
11:35:30 <greensnark> Giant in the playground
11:35:41 <greensnark> The OOTS folks have a forum where there's a Crawl thread
11:36:25 <baturinsky> Is "having no forum" a way to promote crawl?
11:36:50 <greensnark> baturinsky: Are you trying to be sarcastic? :P
11:37:18 <ogaz> adding a forum to crawl.develz.org might not be a bad idea, actually
11:38:05 <baturinsky> I'm genuinely curious why crawl have a lot of ways of communications, except most usual one
11:38:08 <greensnark> syllogism: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8216349&postcount=1131
11:38:30 <ixtli> bhaak: http://github.com/ixtli/depgen
11:38:39 <syllogism> confused? by what? :P
11:38:55 <ixtli> bhaak: It's not really clean at the moment but I plan to make it more featureful.
11:39:17 <greensnark> Confused by being handicapped with a brain that can compare Shoals:5 to Zot:5 :P
11:39:17 <Zaba> ixtli, wow, 322 lines of python? What does it do that my shell script can't? :P
11:39:35 <ixtli> Zaba: various verbosity levels and readability :D
11:39:36 <bhaak> ixtli: ah, cool
11:39:41 <ixtli> Basically nothing.
11:39:41 <bhaak> Zaba: it has documentaiton :)
11:39:56 <Zaba> bhaak, I can write up documentation for mine if you want
11:40:03 <ixtli> Zaba: Most of the stuff I do that concerns crawl is for my own learning.
11:40:05 <ixtli> I like python :)
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11:40:25 <Zaba> fair enough, I don't ;P
11:40:39 <by> good evening
11:40:41 <syllogism> some guy couldnt do it as a merfolk crusader :P
11:40:54 <ixtli> by: Hello there!
11:41:08 <ixtli> Zaba: For some reason it agrees with me.  I am more productive in python than in any other language.
11:41:18 <ixtli> Zaba: And i've been using it for much less time.
11:41:25 <Zaba> I'm equally unproductive in all languages.
11:41:25 <syllogism> too bad the pre-nerf shoals wasn't ever in an official release
11:42:08 <bhaak> ixtli: FR: color intensity in regards of some metric, like LOC :)
11:42:13 <greensnark> syllogism: As it is players are too scared of its shadow to go in :P
11:42:41 <greensnark> Pre-nerf javelineers would drive players to do Slime pits because they *hear* Shoals is so dangerous :P
11:43:01 * bhaak has been busy looking at code visualization the last two weeks and can now FR a lot of useful and useless things
11:43:08 <ogaz> the only thing difficult about shoals right now is ilsuiw, I went it at XL11 and got to shoals:5 without any real issues
11:43:19 <greensnark> ogaz: Yep
11:43:39 <ixtli> bhaak: Sorry, FR?
11:43:40 <ixtli> :D
11:43:48 <ixtli> That went over my head :)
11:43:55 <bhaak> Feature Request
11:45:00 <ixtli> Ah ah I see.
11:45:22 <ixtli> I will add that to my TODO list.
11:45:40 <ixtli> Right now I have to hack together a presentation for a project on Edo architecture :(
11:45:46 <ixtli> That's due in ... 9 hours?
11:45:49 <Zaba> Edo?
11:45:55 <ixtli> 江戸
11:46:06 <ixtli> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo
11:46:17 <ixtli> Remember Samurai Champloo?
11:46:18 <bhaak> LOL, I almost went googling for "edo cpu architecture" but before typing anything I remembered :)
11:46:25 <ixtli> hahahahaha
11:46:26 <Zaba> ah
11:46:26 <ixtli> Nice .
11:46:40 <ixtli> bhaak: I think you have a great april fools paper to write there.
11:47:19 <syllogism> greensnark: heh someone in that thread banished cerebov with a dagger of distortion
11:47:27 <syllogism> zerk
11:51:34 <greensnark> syllogism: I think most of them are newish players
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12:16:43 <Ashenzari> Invisibility cancelled on (+Inv) weapon switch (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1520) by pixnaps
12:54:18 <syllogism> !log johan
12:54:19 <Henzell> 2569. Johan, XL15 DSNe, T:37388: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Johan/morgue-Johan-20100509-175337.txt
12:54:47 <syllogism> see this is what happens when you don't do vaults/tomb/zot first :P
12:56:12 <syllogism> though he/she was fighting a merfolk impaler at 19 hp despite having a dozen healing potions and the impaler being almost at full hp :P
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14:27:01 <Abuse> when it comes to SpAM, don't slings make more sense than bows since a sling's velocity comes from speed and dexterity than strength?  Also, a spriggan would get more damage with a maximally enchanted sling than from a bow, since they cannot use longbows.
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14:28:10 <Abuse> since thier apt is identical for both weapons (70) i think a choice at character generation would make sense.
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14:57:37 <Ashenzari> Bad ghost title (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1521) by qui
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15:20:57 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot
15:22:56 <Napkin> didn't we want to ask Brodale for the domain name?
15:23:12 <Napkin> or if he would link to us, at least
15:23:46 <dpeg> ah, perhaps
15:23:56 <dpeg> his email has zero context :)
15:23:59 <sorear> that, and building bridges
15:24:18 <sorear> it would be awesome if we had somebody in ##crawl-dev who could explain the // {dlb} comments
15:25:22 <dpeg> sorear: you could ask him :)
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16:06:46 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot
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16:07:22 <felirx> do we want those to work?
16:07:23 <Abuse> it could just be my putty though... i have a usb numpad
16:07:52 <Napkin> would be cool, i think, felirx
16:07:54 <Abuse> it works in the game.
16:07:57 <felirx> hmm
16:07:58 <Abuse> just not the menu system
16:08:08 <felirx> it works on my local build
16:08:49 <Abuse> k, probably a terminal incompatibility
16:08:59 <felirx> checking my ubuntu
16:09:13 <felirx> I only check for CK_LEFT etc key events
16:09:19 <felirx> it's probably a case of numpad sending different ones
16:09:25 <Abuse> yeah
16:09:38 <Napkin> abuse - do you have nethack numpad setting on in putty?
16:09:46 <Abuse> nope
16:09:52 <Napkin> try with?
16:09:53 <Abuse> doesnt that set it to vi keystrokes?
16:09:58 <Napkin> yes
16:10:10 <Abuse> but hjkl will select those menu items?
16:10:24 <Napkin> that's what i'm curious about
16:10:32 <Abuse> k, i'll try it
16:11:00 <by> crawl does a lot of horrible keyboard input mangling
16:12:05 <felirx> it also works on my local ubuntu terminal
16:12:32 <felirx> however, it broke when I turned on numlock
16:14:21 <Abuse> yeah, numlock on sends numbers instead of ESC[~n
16:14:47 <Abuse> and the nethack in putty seems to be sending ESC[~n.
16:14:51 <Abuse> not the vikeys
16:15:01 <Abuse> could be the USB numpad thing tho
16:15:37 <felirx> there is no specific KEYS value for numpad specifically
16:16:18 <felirx> that was a duplicate weirdo sentence :(
16:16:45 <Abuse> also, when pressing backspace during character creation it takes you back to the previous screen in 0.6.0.  In the new system it takes you to the previous menu item.
16:16:49 <bhaak> dpeg: I found brodale being active on wikipedia. So I thought I ask him to contact you because of the licensing issue and stuff
16:17:41 <felirx> Abuse: previous item?
16:17:48 <Abuse> menuitem
16:17:52 <felirx> your ssh is sending some wonky input
16:18:04 <felirx> backspace goes to previous screen normally
16:18:17 <Abuse> actually
16:18:21 <Abuse> it takes you to kenku
16:18:22 <Abuse> xD
16:18:36 <dpeg> bhaak: ah, you contacted him!
16:19:11 <Abuse> maybe its not grabbing the difference between ^H and ^_ deletes
16:19:15 <Abuse> or whatever they are
16:20:28 <Abuse> i can't get back to the previous screen once selecting a species.
16:20:37 <Abuse> i can hit space and reselect
16:20:40 <Abuse> but delete isnt working
16:20:51 <Abuse> err "backspace"
16:20:56 <Abuse> or delete
16:21:09 <Abuse> it resets the screen and puts the menuitem to q
16:21:20 <Abuse> highlighted menuitem
16:21:27 <Abuse> think its wonky term?
16:22:12 <dpeg> sorear: so should I reply to Don?
16:22:29 <bhaak> dpeg: on his wikipedia user discussion page he said he's likely open for a open source license, but that he doesn't know if there were other reasons why linley choose a NH lookalike license (like copied code), but IMO that's not his problem, it's yours :)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:D.brodale
16:22:58 <Abuse> putty is set to send $chr(127) by default for backspace.
16:23:08 <Abuse> it can send ^H alternately.
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16:23:39 <bhaak> also, it doesn't hurt having only part of the code under dual-license, in case somebody changes his mind and/or some parts get completely rewritten or discarded in time.
16:25:59 <Abuse> the problem with numpad off is that many of the useful keys on the numpad (., enter, 0, etc) dont work from the numpad with it off.
16:26:05 <Abuse> so i play with it on by default.
16:26:13 <Napkin> abuse?
16:26:29 <Abuse> so, that being the case, i'd like to see numbers work as directionals in the new menu system in creation.
16:26:30 <Napkin> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto <- you should read this
16:26:33 <Abuse> k
16:26:36 <Abuse> done
16:27:13 <Napkin> so why do you say enter, 0 etc don't work?
16:27:16 <Napkin> because they do
16:27:45 <Abuse> why should i read that?
16:27:55 <Abuse> with numpad off they dont.
16:27:57 <Napkin> because then your problems are gone
16:27:59 <Abuse> 0 sends insert
16:28:03 <Abuse> . sends del
16:28:03 <Abuse> etc
16:28:09 <Abuse> at least on my numpad
16:28:23 <Abuse> numlock i mean
16:28:28 <Abuse> <<- tired
16:28:52 <dpeg> The point is that I cannot very well reply to DB about license issues, because I have no knowledge about that...
16:28:54 <Abuse> the problem with NUMLOCK off is that many of the useful keys on the numpad (., enter, 0, etc) dont work from the numpad with it off.
16:29:22 <Abuse> and the numbers dont work as directionals in the new menu system.
16:29:29 <Abuse> with it on.
16:29:59 <felirx> if you can move with the numlock in both off and on modes, there's something really wonky going on
16:30:08 <felirx> because it uses the same key events that moving does
16:30:16 <Abuse> just saying, catching CK_LEFT || '4' would be better for me.
16:30:55 <Abuse> i can move fine in the game
16:30:58 <Abuse> not in the menu
16:31:06 <Abuse> using numlock on.
16:31:28 <Napkin> first off - there is no difference in moving with the numpad - no matter if numlock is on or not - with nethack keys
16:32:17 <Abuse> Napkin, you can't use vikeys to select an item in the menu, as sending hjkl will select the menu item.
16:32:57 <Napkin> since when can you select items in menus with cursor keys?
16:33:01 <Abuse> trunk
16:33:06 <Abuse> character creation.
16:33:06 <Napkin> or are you talking about the character selection?
16:33:11 <Abuse> yes
16:34:05 <Napkin> well, use the cursor keys instead of numpad?
16:34:48 <Abuse> i could, but trunk is for pointing out stuff like this, so i am.
16:34:57 <Abuse> i don't need an obvious workaround
16:35:13 <Abuse> thanks though
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16:35:37 <dpeg> Hi Enne!
16:35:41 <Enne> Hey, dpeg.  :)
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16:37:25 <Abuse> Hi dpeg!
16:39:08 <rax> strict-machine should be back, writeup of the issue in a little while.
16:39:42 <dpeg> awesome
16:40:00 <felirx> _translate_keysym does some funky enum arithmethics
16:40:00 <Abuse> if it's any help, the same directional events aren't triggering.  In the game proper, it is triggering a directional even when sending numbers, even from the keyboard proper.  They don't get triggered in the character creation menu system.
16:40:24 <Abuse> directional event*
16:40:59 <Abuse> if i press 1 from the keyboard it moves my @ diagonally, same with the numpad
16:41:22 <Abuse> it doesnt move the highlight if i press 2 in the menu system though
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16:42:19 <Abuse> so the code isnt catching the numbers as directionals in the menu
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16:42:29 <Abuse> which is what is asked initially
16:43:08 <Abuse> it looks nice otherwise.
16:43:10 <Abuse> :)
16:43:11 <Abuse> gj
16:45:43 <sorear> dpeg: yes, I expected you would be the ambassador
16:49:32 <dpeg> sorear: okay, will reply tomorrow.
16:49:43 <dpeg> I am officially sick :)
16:50:13 <dpeg> anyway, sleep now
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16:51:28 <felirx> bool altDown  = !!(cKeys & (LEFT_ALT_PRESSED | RIGHT_ALT_PRESSED));
16:51:29 <felirx> err?
16:51:42 <felirx> what am I missing or do the !! part make no sense at all?
16:52:54 <Enne> !! is a conversion from int to bool.
16:52:59 <sorear> (cKeys & (LEFT_ALT_PRESSED | RIGHT_ALT_PRESSED)) is an integer
16:53:16 <felirx> ah
16:53:22 <sorear> the implicit conversion of int to bool is just a narrowing integer conversion
16:53:57 <sorear> in the common case where bool is 8 bits, any bit higher than #8 in the source will NOT have any effect on the result of the coercion
16:54:21 <sorear> it actually might be undefined behavior; I can never remember the general overflow rules
16:54:34 <Enne> Oh, interesting.  I never knew that before.
16:55:10 <sorear> I actually might be mixing up C and C++ here
16:55:22 <sorear> bool in C++ is... weird
16:56:47 <felirx> mainly looking around to see what gets actually passed from numpad 2,4... in different systems
16:57:26 <felirx> <3 the comments
16:57:39 <felirx> // now translate the key.  Dammit.  This is !@#$(*& garbage.
16:57:57 <Abuse> heh
16:58:39 <Abuse> sorry to make you look at this shit
16:58:42 <Abuse> ;)
16:59:22 <felirx> I really don't want to just check for '4' because it will break futher plans
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17:16:26 <Abuse> yeah
17:16:39 <Abuse> ?
17:17:03 <Abuse> well, do you want the numbers to control the menu or not, that's the real question i guess
17:17:34 <felirx> Imagine drop menu that maps '4' to left instead of partial drop.
17:21:14 <CIA-58> 03dolorous * rd6127a8da5d7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc describe.h skills2.cc): Fix Mantis 1521.
17:21:26 <Abuse> hmm
17:21:42 <Abuse> probably have to prefix number entry with 0
17:21:53 <Abuse> like number entry does in the game
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17:22:25 <Abuse> do d+020n
17:22:33 <Abuse> instead of d+20n
17:22:51 <Abuse> using 0 as an escape for numeric entry is what is currently done in the game.
17:22:52 <felirx> now you're dialing phone numbers already
17:23:05 <Abuse> heh
17:23:07 <Abuse> still
17:23:20 <Abuse> it beats having to press numlock every time you want to use the menu system
17:23:43 <Abuse> less kepresses to escape a numeric entry with 0 i think
17:24:18 <Abuse> its up for discussion i guess, establishing a standard would be nice
17:25:24 <Abuse> if you escaped with 0, a person could use their numpad for menu and directional movements.
17:26:15 <Abuse> the numbers being used for directions is why it was used initially for a repeat command escape character
17:26:31 <Abuse> it might as well be used everywere for numeric entry
17:26:39 <Abuse> for consistency
17:27:28 <Abuse> nethack uses 'n' as an escape when numpad is on.
17:27:34 <Abuse> for numeric entry
17:28:01 <Abuse> i'm sure their devteam had the same discussion at some point.
17:29:52 <Abuse> if you are running locally it's easy to determine if a number comes from the keyboard or from the number pad, but when using terminal client/server communications, it's not as simple.
17:32:32 <Abuse> my opinion currently: escaping numeric entry acrossed the board is the easiest solution, as the number characters are already established as directionals in the game, and should probably carry forward as directionals in the menuing subsystem.
17:34:04 <Abuse> it would also provide an easy mechinism for avoiding any future conflicts in input mechanics between numeric entry and directional entry.
17:35:34 <Abuse> i'm open to other solutions though.
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19:24:09 <due> morn
19:24:52 <Enne> Howdy, due!
19:26:01 <due> Hi enne!
19:26:17 <due> I see I missed raxbox going down.
19:26:20 <due> What happened?
19:30:51 * due rushes off to work.
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22:04:58 <Abuse> how difficult would it be to impliment a monster stack for stairs when you leave/enter a level?
22:05:28 <Abuse> so monsters who can use stairs continue to track you
22:06:22 <Abuse> and monsters poisoned on a level continue to take damage
22:06:26 <Abuse> etc
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23:45:13 <Twinge> <Zelas> I fail to see how the game is winnable anymore
23:45:15 * Twinge smirks
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