00:06:47 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:06:59 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:04 ??brand 00:07:04 weapon brands[1/3]: See any of {vorpal}, {flaming}, {freezing}, {holy_wrath}, {draining}, {electrocution}, {pain}, {distortion}, {vampiric}, {orc_slaying}, {dragon_slaying}, {speed}, {venom} 00:07:16 ??brand[2] 00:07:16 I don't have a page labeled brand[2] in my learndb. 00:07:22 ??weapon brand[2] 00:07:23 I don't have a page labeled weapon_brand[2] in my learndb. 00:07:30 ??weapon brands[2] 00:07:31 weapon brands[2/3]: Vorpal, flaming, freezing, holy wrath, orc slaying, and dragon slaying affect damage by multiplying the base damage. Draining does too, along with a flat amount of experience. This means that your randart +9, +6 hammer with a holy wrath brand is still awful, even against demons. 00:08:12 ??stab] 00:08:13 stabbing[1/2]: A succesful stab multiplies damage done by a factor proportional to stabbing skill. Expect about double damage at 10 skill. Short and long blades get two multipliers, 3-4 times normal damage at 10 skill. Finally, short blades get a bonus of up to 30 added *before* multiplying. See http://chaosforge.org/crawl/index.php?title=Stabbing 00:08:14 ??stab 00:08:14 stabbing[1/2]: A succesful stab multiplies damage done by a factor proportional to stabbing skill. Expect about double damage at 10 skill. Short and long blades get two multipliers, 3-4 times normal damage at 10 skill. Finally, short blades get a bonus of up to 30 added *before* multiplying. See http://chaosforge.org/crawl/index.php?title=Stabbing 00:22:00 Fangorn: If you want to query Henzell outside ##crawl, you can do it in a private message 00:22:29 oh? I didn't know, thanks 00:23:01 only commands which change nothing are allowed - no clandestine editing 00:23:21 ok. I didn't realize I was in ##crawl-dev, sorry 00:27:52 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:39 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:39 -!- Blitz82 is now known as Madtrixr 00:47:23 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:52:45 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:31 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:31 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:32 -!- Blitz82 is now known as Madtrixr 01:28:42 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:16 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:31 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:40 -!- Blitz82 has quit [Client Quit] 01:48:25 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:53 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:36 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:51 -!- ogaz has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 02:30:20 -!- stabwound has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:38 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:40 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:47:52 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:25 -!- Fangorn has quit [Client Quit] 02:54:20 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:14 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:56 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:08 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:29 03by * r1ebe1d600db8 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: dungeon.cc:_place_shops simplification. 03:45:19 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.] 04:04:27 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:57 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:16:10 -!- mtadd has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:26 -!- Gernony has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:13 -!- mtadd has left ##crawl-dev 04:29:06 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:06 -!- Fangorn has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:36 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:31 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:50 hi 04:40:00 sorear: thanks for fixing #1454 04:45:33 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:51:42 -!- stabwound has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:59 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:12 KiloByte: thank you 05:12:44 sorear: for...? 05:18:33 replying on mantis 05:19:26 ah. This (having done my share of mummy scumming) is more something that I should be chastised for instead :p 05:20:26 about your fix to chain lightning: it may affect other non-beam hits too 05:20:58 like, I had to kludge IOOD to give a message to the player when you get hit, it was not given by the beam code 05:21:49 it could affect IOOD 05:22:08 a Brent-era comment said that chain lightning was the only thing which was not a beam and not blockable 05:22:15 I trusted it (foolishly?) 05:25:35 no double messages, it's ok 05:31:56 has anyone here played console crawl with mouse support? 05:33:54 The mouse is an instrument of damnation 05:34:22 I added the original ncurses mouse support, but just to see if it worked :P 05:35:02 I think the only thing it did was make map points clickable for travel and such 05:35:31 But seriously, using the mouse while playing Crawl? Euww! 05:35:58 if it doesn't work the code should go 05:36:05 Yeah, it can be tossed 05:36:11 I don't think anyone uses it 05:36:25 Since it's disabled by default and didn't do much to start with 05:36:41 heh, it works actually 05:39:05 it even works on cdo 05:40:12 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:42:08 can you fight with the mouse in tiles? 05:43:10 by: i believe you can. 05:43:14 Also, hi :) 05:43:52 hi 05:50:07 Ring of poison resistance never autoIDs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1459) by Nexos 05:54:40 ok, a lot of the mouse logic should probably move out of the tiles code 05:59:31 where should it be? 05:59:56 in main.cc (well, not really that file) 06:00:20 also which mouse logic are we talking about? 06:00:22 curses also supports mouse input 06:00:25 cause there's event handling in the windowmanager code now 06:01:41 currently, tiles code translates mouse actions to keyboard commands; main crawl input handling then interprets these 06:01:50 ah ok 06:02:04 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:23 if it instead passed the mouse clicks out to main crawl directly, the logic (move, fire, etc.) could be shared with curses mouse input 06:02:29 by: I don't use the console version often, is mouse support enabled right now? 06:02:42 you need to set mouse_input = true 06:02:59 kk :) 06:03:20 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:53 I imagine moving logic out of tiles.getch_ck and children would tend to clean things up, but unsure 06:04:22 i will have a look at this 06:04:29 :) 06:04:34 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:41 thanks! 06:05:05 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:32 DungeonRegion::handle_mouse for example, it returns things like command_to_key(CMD_DISPLAY_RELIGION), which is passed through getch_ck to main.cc::_input, where it is translated back through key_to_command 06:07:33 !lg * 0.6 killer=uniq s=killer 06:07:34 3081 games for * (0.6 killer=uniq): 740x Sigmund, 365x Terence, 256x Ijyb, 235x Crazy Yiuf, 200x Jessica, 163x Blork the orc, 160x Prince Ribbit, 154x Duvessa, 114x Edmund, 89x Dowan, 89x Menkaure, 55x Pikel, 39x Agnes, 38x Rupert, 37x Erolcha, 34x Gastronok, 31x Nikola, 25x Nessos, 22x Erica, 22x Purgy, 20x Norbert, 17x Joseph, 13x Grum, 12x Aizul, 12x Harold, 12x Psyche, 11x Saint Roka, 10x Joze... 06:07:46 greensnark: by: I agree mostly with using mouse == eww 06:07:54 !lg * 0.6 killer=uniq s=killer x=avg(turn) 06:07:55 3081 games for * (0.6 killer=uniq): 740x Sigmund [2121], 365x Terence [1664], 256x Ijyb [1778], 235x Crazy Yiuf [2395], 200x Jessica [1659], 163x Blork the orc [3781], 160x Prince Ribbit [4436], 154x Duvessa [4882], 114x Edmund [4126], 89x Dowan [5103], 89x Menkaure [4340], 55x Pikel [4342], 39x Agnes [21551], 38x Rupert [25287], 37x Erolcha [10914], 34x Gastronok [11838], 31x Nikola [37095], 25x ... 06:07:56 However, being able to mouseover in tiles is very nice/ 06:08:05 I'm not convinced that using the mouse is bad 06:08:23 The mouse is pretty useful in tiles 06:08:27 It's much easier than having to use movement keys in some configurations. 06:08:33 But you still have to keep your chosen hand flapping between mouse and keyboard :P 06:08:37 Mouseover in console would be the same. 06:08:42 It's a bird! It's a mouse user! 06:08:43 greensnark: I am a VI user. 06:08:52 No need to tell me this :) 06:09:05 mouse is handy for inventory management 06:09:19 Hmm. 06:09:23 I actually don't use it for that. 06:09:24 Keyboard is faster :P 06:09:27 I could imagine moving with wasd-like keys, frequent commands on the mouse buttons and tab,1,2,3,4,r,f,v 06:09:34 The mouse can be faster for pointing at things on the map, that's about it 06:09:48 mouse for fighting and targeting 06:09:56 greensnark: Perhaps we might try that in console version? 06:10:03 felirx: what do you mean, specifically? 06:10:23 by: Thats a really interesting idea. 06:10:28 Make an FPS style control scheme. 06:10:28 ixtli: If you want to, I'm not enthusiastic about the mouse :) 06:10:36 greensnark: :) 06:10:55 The thing is, I think my windowmanager code could be used to remove the USE_TILES ifdefs 06:11:01 all over the game code 06:11:08 But I don't know if we want to move that way... 06:11:15 merge it with viewgeom? 06:11:19 I don't know very much about ncurses. 06:11:29 crawl doesn't use ncurses, really 06:11:47 Crawl mouse support is ncurses-only, I think 06:11:48 all the windowing logic is in cgotoxy and viewgeom 06:11:55 I don't think classic curses acknowledges the existence of mice :) 06:12:17 well, I imagine getting mouse events out of ncurses and mapping them to regions won't be that hard 06:13:01 ill have to learn but I'll take a look at it. 06:13:16 I've never looked at the windowing logic outside of SDL 06:15:06 ixtli: mainly the mouse over over items and sometimes for unequipping armor and jewellery 06:16:06 ah indeed. 06:29:45 -!- xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:10 -!- xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]] 06:40:01 -!- ivan has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 06:40:10 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:19 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:39 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:16 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 07:18:02 greensnark: My fix almost worked except I forgot to actually make a /dev/null *facepalm* I figured that out though. 07:23:47 rax: What was the fix? 07:35:25 greensnark, damn, autoexplore in shoals is kind of unhelpful. 07:35:59 ulimit -S -c 153600 2>/dev/null 07:35:59 ulimit -S -v 102400 2>/dev/null 07:36:26 rax: Ah, ok 07:36:42 Zaba: Suggestions for improvement? 07:37:29 greensnark, perhaps it could act more smartly about regions that were accessible at some point in time but are now blocked by the tide.. 07:38:41 Zaba: Do you have before/after examples? That description is a little vague :) 07:39:01 What does autoexplore do now that is flawed? How would you fix it 07:39:28 well, it simply says 'partly explored, can't reach some places', which makes sense, but not very helpful when said places become accessible later. 07:39:55 oh fuck, Mara 07:40:27 Zaba: Are you guilty of local play? 07:40:31 !whereis Zaba 07:40:33 Zaba the Destroyer (L14 SpCj), a worshipper of Vehumet, is currently on Shoals:2 after 38960 turns. 07:40:39 Oh, good 07:41:18 okay, I'm rather too weak for shoals right now. 07:41:39 :'( 07:41:56 mara & polyphemus with his horde on one level :P 07:42:06 Are you afraid of Polyphemus? 07:42:14 Feeling a little avis domestica? 07:42:19 I'm afraid of a mermaid + a truckload of death yaks 07:42:35 meph cloud? 07:42:46 doesn't work very well with their high HD 07:43:05 well enough to drown them I would think 07:43:14 I prefer to kite them with isky's, but that requires no buggers that block my running 07:43:24 and, mara is just bloody dangerous ;p 07:44:20 Mara should be able to disguise himself as a low HD monster of the branch he's in 07:44:37 In the Shoals he could appear as a hippogriff, for instance 07:45:08 hm 07:45:12 that would be rather... evil 07:45:22 He could lose one turn to drop his disguise and activate his spells and abilities 07:45:40 So until then you would be dealing with a hippogriff :) 07:45:53 hmm. 07:46:03 and half of the time you kill him before he decides to drop his disguise? 07:46:22 by: Oh, his hp and stats would be Mara-like 07:46:23 yeah, but get the amount of experience you would get for killing him undisguised :P 07:46:35 And when you hit him he reveals himself 07:46:37 or maybe not. 07:46:47 Ideally he drops the disguise before you close to melee range 07:47:55 Hey, nubinia is doing Shoals 07:48:04 Spriggan of the cheating god :P 07:48:20 nemelex? :P 07:48:22 78x24 :) 07:48:43 syllogism: Well, it had to be Nemelex of Chei, and I said "spriggan", so :P 07:48:49 s/of/or/ 07:49:24 I wonder how many legendary decks of summoning nubinia has :P 07:49:49 Also +1 to new symbol for water 07:50:03 Looks much nicer than } 07:52:33 syllogism: Shoals took out Atomjack :P 07:52:41 !lg atomjack xl>10 07:52:42 36. Atomjack the Convoker (L15 DESu), worshipper of Vehumet, slain by a merfolk impaler (a +0,+2 trident of reaching) on Shoals:5 on 2010-04-30, with 74187 points after 48749 turns and 4:50:14. 07:52:51 His maxhp was terrible :P 07:53:02 And he seemed to realise his peril only when he hit 15hp 07:53:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:56:36 !whereis greensnark 07:56:37 greensnark the Shatterer (L22 HuFi), a worshipper of Makhleb, last saved on Vault:3 on 2010-04-30 after 89057 turns. 07:56:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:24 too bad it's 0.6, or we could update cdo and see you test the acid walls 07:57:51 !lm greensnark src=cdo x=v 07:57:54 941. [2010-03-28] [v=0.6.0-rc] greensnark the Black Belt (L21 HaMo) killed Frederick on turn 80966. (D:27) 07:58:03 I should probably quit the HaMo :P 07:58:09 0.6-rc feels so last century 07:58:24 Also HaMo is too easy with multiple sources of slaying :P 07:58:25 0.6-rc upgrades to 0.7, right? 07:58:31 Does it? 07:58:40 Major version hasn't changed? 07:58:43 not sure 07:58:47 pretty sure it has 07:58:54 major version has changed, for sav->chr 07:59:43 ok, it doesn't upgrade to 0.7, but it's the cdo "unstable" game, so it blocks 0.7 08:07:50 hm 08:08:07 with slimy walls, slime pits seems even more of a quite hard place than it used to be 08:09:01 it makes it strictly harder, yes 08:10:41 its levels seem to often have places where one has no choice but to walk near walls, too 08:21:36 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:41 "Since Mummies are a very weak and hard to play race, especially as a fighter, their only way to be able to handle the later levels of the game was if they spent a little bit of time scumming" 08:24:42 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:47:35 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:56 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:47:57 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:54 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:56 -!- by_ is now known as by 09:18:26 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:49 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:54 03cg * ra5163abad931 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files): Created a static WindowManager::shutdown() fxn 09:21:03 Enne: Hey :) 09:21:06 Thanks :D 09:21:12 No problem. :) 09:21:18 I was going to go take a look at your triangles branch now. 09:21:29 yay 09:21:34 Yay, indeed! 09:22:40 There was also some discussion between by, greensnark, felirx and myself about mouse support. 09:22:46 Oh? 09:22:51 I will find you a link 09:23:00 Thanks. I'd love to read that. 09:23:11 Enne: http://tozt.net/crawl/%23%23crawl-dev-20100501.log grep for "05:43:10 by: i believe you can." 09:25:28 Hmm. 09:25:48 So, in general, I'm ashamed of the amount of USE_TILE #ifdefs in the code. Reducing these seems like a win in general. 09:27:29 Certainly the beam code could be made more general, since that's shared between curses and tiles. 09:27:45 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:09 I'm less sure about the mouseover and inventory region code. I guess if these were going to be added to the curses version, then it could get abstracted. 09:28:29 However, are there really a lot of folks using that *and* using a mouse? 09:28:47 Enne: I was thinking just about the commands that would make sense in console 09:28:52 (And, would time better be spent just adding an ascii display to the tiles version?) 09:29:17 it's a lot of work, but how about doing this by basing the console version on the tiles one? 09:29:40 that is, having tile definitions specify console characters and colors 09:29:47 no 09:29:54 why? 09:30:30 because tiles feels kind of hacked onto the console version; hacking console on top of that? 09:30:44 yes, then removing the current console version 09:30:52 and removing the hacky nature of tiles 09:31:00 I think you mean "leaving only a hack". 09:31:13 Why not make a console implementation of windowmanager 09:31:23 you wouldn't have to use the tiles code. 09:31:25 ixtli: that sounds like a nice idea, yes 09:31:33 Just make a windowmanager-ncurses 09:31:34 or whatever. 09:31:45 I know it doesn't make extensive use of ncurses, but you get my idea. 09:31:45 using tiles as a general interface seems a good idea because it is a superset of console (except monster list) 09:31:59 i.e. you can convert tiles to characters perfectly but not viceversa 09:32:20 by: What commands in particular do you think it makes sense to share between tiles and curses? 09:32:38 things like attacking a neighbouring monster by clicking it 09:33:47 in general, interpreting input in just one place feels nicer than the current state to me 09:33:53 I'd agree with that. 09:34:35 (except for things like mouse-over descriptions, tooltips probably) 09:34:45 Im now afraid of borking windows though. 09:34:56 windows support that is. 09:35:10 you'd better not bork windows tiles 09:35:16 :) 09:35:18 ortoslon: I seem to have already. 09:35:19 I partially wonder if we could abstract the Region code for curses, but I think there's too much tiles logic baked into it. 09:35:25 ixtli: That got fixed, I think. 09:35:30 ortoslon: felrix had to fix it. 09:35:30 Yeah. 09:35:38 Enne: I was hoping WindowManager might do that 09:36:00 basically merge viewgeom.h/cc with the tiles code 09:36:19 Yeah, exactly. 09:36:53 there have been a number of bugs with tile regions and viewgeom being somewhat out of sync 09:37:09 And merging them would get rid of that duplicate information problem. 09:37:19 if we get proper console window management out of it, all the better :) 09:38:36 and remove wherex/wherey 09:38:57 This would be awesome as well because it'd make it easier for me to port the console experience to the iPad. 09:39:13 And potentially the iPhone with a blutooth keyboard. 09:39:38 Maybe we'd just need to look at the Region classes and somehow split out drawing and game logic. 09:40:13 Or maybe there's a better abstraction? 09:40:32 btw, why doing this, it would be nice to think of online tiles support 09:40:52 I have some code that does that by parsing the character interface 09:41:06 I think online tiles support is an orthogonal problem. 09:41:07 which works decently, but is obviously not perfect 09:41:11 not really 09:41:22 you need a way to serialize tiles to a character interface 09:41:43 which means having tiles support without the sdl/opengl renderer 09:42:00 once you have that, it makes sense to make tiles the main interface and build console over it 09:42:20 at least that's what seems to me the best idea based on looking at the code while implementing the online tiles support 09:42:39 Luca: It is orthogonal, and you should grep the chat logs here for discussion on it. 09:43:20 Luca: Also tiles no longer depends on sdl or opengl. 09:43:29 Luca: see windowmanager.h and glwrapper.h 09:44:07 hmm that's post-0.6? 09:44:13 current master 09:44:43 and no interface should be 'main' 09:44:51 well, no interface should be a wrapper around another interface.. 09:44:51 Zaba: Indeed. 09:44:53 nice 09:45:06 Luca: Crawl dev, at least since I've been here, is something that should only be approached by using master because dev happens frequently 09:45:15 and they're not afraid of changing things around, thankfully. 09:45:44 yes, but shouldn't there be a game state -> view code independent of the interface? 09:45:47 Enne: Perhaps I should write a wiki page on porting sooner than later 09:45:53 where the view would have to be represented by tiles 09:46:03 since characters lose information 09:46:38 right now tilepick generates tiles and other place generate characters, both accessing internal data 09:47:22 Luca, yes, internal data and the interface should be separate, but the format they use to share information about glyphs should assume neither graphics nor console 09:47:23 Which is why you can't do online tiles correctly if you're just parsing characters coming from a server running the console version. 09:47:25 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:33 sure 09:47:55 ixtli: yeah, it can be made to work quite decently though 09:48:08 it's still an awful hack. 09:48:30 yes 09:48:55 but there is e.g. the problem of how to make ttyrecs viewable both in tiles and character 09:49:15 can't have that 09:49:24 and how to make other people games watchable 09:49:32 i.e. watch console from tiles 09:49:36 and watch tiles from console 09:49:45 my code can show ttyrecs and other players in tiles 09:49:55 but not perfectly due to the heuristic parsing 09:49:57 if you have the game server and interface separate, then you can let 'spectators' connect 09:50:04 yes 09:50:30 alternatively, enrich the console version to provide tiles metadata with something that doesn't result in terminal output 09:50:31 then, you could just record the traffic the interface uses to communcate with the game, and let the interface interpret and visualize it 09:50:50 and use that instead of ttyrecs 09:51:10 yes, sure, that's the well-designed way 09:51:33 Luca: if you want to be helpful, branch master and change crawl to server-client 09:51:34 :) 09:51:37 Like quake 09:51:43 Then this whole problem will go away. 09:51:45 which requires interface-independent view generation code I proposed 09:51:53 well, y'see, if you settle for a very ugly hack and it works kinda decently, it _will_ stick for a while. 09:52:04 even if you claim that it is 'temporary' and 'yeah, kind of bad, needs a better replacement indeed' 09:52:06 it can be improved incrementally 09:52:18 by replacing the character parser with a "new protocol" parser 09:52:53 things like the main menu, ssh support, autologin, ttyrec player are useful for both 09:53:03 well 09:53:52 btw, see http://repo.or.cz/w/crawl/crawl-nettiles.git for the code 09:54:11 I'm planning to announce it as soon as I manage to get it working on windows too 09:54:56 Luca: when we the last time you merged master? 09:55:00 never 09:55:04 it's based on 0.6.0.1 09:55:04 Luca: The tiles code is pretty radically different now. 09:55:08 Ho boy. 09:55:15 Please look at the current master. 09:55:31 hm, yeah.. development should be based upon master 09:55:38 There has been a /lot/ of dev since then. Not a small amount of which is a completely different menu screen. 09:55:50 I added my own main menu 09:56:07 Luca: Put it this way tilereg.cc got exploded into a bunch of different files. 09:57:00 Luca: and SDL, OpenGL, and Freetype are pluggable now. 09:57:10 nice 09:59:09 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:20 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:04 hm. 10:00:15 building on windows is quite hard 10:00:44 almost succeeded though apparently 10:00:49 I wonder, how good would it really be if console and tiles code was more unified? Wouldn't that limit the ability of tiles to make use of interface features that are only available graphically? 10:00:50 Yeah. I don't consider win32 a sane platform :( 10:00:56 For what my oppinion is worth. 10:01:02 win32 is not a sane platform 10:01:03 opinion, even. 10:02:17 Zaba: There are always going to be tiles-specific modules. 10:02:40 Zaba: If someone wants to do something Tiles-specific it's going to get put in there. 10:04:00 Enne: by: Forgot to mention that generalizing mouse input would make it easier to implement /touch/ input :D 10:05:51 hmm. 10:06:08 certainly something to keep in mind when making changes there 10:07:17 I'm still not 100% sure what I'm going to do about making a good touch interface. 10:07:37 At the moment I just wanna make a faithful representation of the desktop client that can be used with a keyboard. 10:16:15 In a perfect world, we would have any arbitary number of views (with controllers attached to them) that know how to represent the data of the game world 10:17:04 let's rewrite crawl in Smalltalk. 10:17:09 fine with me 10:17:12 * ixtli whips out vim 10:17:22 actually all of that was a lie 10:17:27 * ixtli whips out starcraft 2 10:17:49 although... no.. unless it's gnu smalltalk, which is Wrong, I won't be able to use nvi to work on it. 10:19:22 -!- pineapple has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:51 you can do that in c++, no need for smalltalk :) 10:27:08 yeah, but C++ is awful 10:27:34 nh 10:27:38 nah 10:31:29 !seen dpeg 10:31:29 I last saw dpeg at Fri Apr 30 22:42:43 2010 UTC (16h 48m 46s ago) quitting with message Quit: leaving. 10:36:36 Luca: That's cool that you have an online tiles solution in the works. 10:36:37 Something like that seems like a good interim solution before we can get to a server with multiple views, like what felirx describes. 10:37:35 yes, I also think part of the code can be adapted to a multiple-views design 10:46:29 http://sprunge.us/MjdA 10:46:38 #ifn?def USE_TILE per .cc file 10:48:21 a majority are probably differing instruction texts 10:51:18 thats not /that/ bad 10:51:22 and yeah 10:51:32 in my experience its all just a few lines where they act as hooks 10:55:13 That's not that surprising. 10:55:24 The hints file needs different instructions for the tiles interface. 10:55:38 And the beam code is probably the worst offender in terms of needing to be abstracted for both curses and tiles. 10:56:26 I also added an #ifdef to every tiles-specific h/cc file, to reduce the chance of breaking builds and to simplify the MSVC project. 10:56:29 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:49 (That's interesting though. Thanks for posting that, by.) 10:56:59 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:04 -!- Giomancer has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:41 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:11 menu.cc has ifdefs because of stuff like tiles fonts and pixel<->unit conversions 11:07:04 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:19 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:59 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:21:08 felirx: are you aware of anything besides slider_menu that is unused now? 11:22:04 is there some tool that can tell me what symbols aren't used when linking? 11:33:24 03by * radb17c320238 10/crawl-ref/source/ (menu.cc menu.h): Remove unused slider_menu. 11:34:55 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:06 perhaps -ffunction-sections to gcc, and --gc-sections --print-gc-sections to ld, but not really sure if it works 11:38:13 iirc everything else is used right now 11:38:43 slider was used in the save load screen and nothing else 11:39:58 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:06 ohai 11:40:31 moin Abuse 11:44:27 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:51:05 anyone else has issues with loading wizlab.des in a windows build? 11:52:36 Wasn't that fixed 11:52:44 I thought it was fixed before 0.6 11:53:30 What version are you building and what compiler version 11:53:37 And what error message 11:53:38 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:11 !coffee ogaz 11:54:11 * Henzell hands ogaz a mug of black coffee, brewed by Snorg. 11:57:00 i get "No Player name specified" when starting a good random character on trunk 11:57:07 works fine when i pick race/class for myself 11:57:24 * ogaz drinks the coffee. ogaz goes berserk! 12:03:12 what would be a better brand against a ghost, fire or frost? 12:03:28 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:39 Abuse, that seems to fit ##crawl a bit better 12:03:42 Abuse: depends on the ghost(and these questions should be asked in ##crawl) 12:04:10 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:20 greensnark: complains about the "2nd" character being found at line 894 12:04:46 Xiberia: I think that's been fixed, but not live yet 12:05:04 by "2nd" character I mean the windows-1252/cp437/cp850 (not sure) character being a raised small 2 12:05:08 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:12 by, ok 12:05:17 0.6.0.1 with visual studio 2009 12:05:21 just thought i'd bring it to your attention 12:05:23 vs2008 12:05:53 due or Napkin or Keskitalo: time for a cdo update? 12:06:13 hmm, due is probably asleep 12:06:18 The apparition of chrs the Ruffian, an experienced Troll Berserker of Trog. 12:06:30 kill it daddy, I'm scared. 12:07:12 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:10:54 Luca: Does increasing the size of the buffer in vmake_strings (libutil.cc) to something like 8000 fix the problem? 12:11:01 *vmake_stringf 12:12:27 will do, by 12:14:10 ok holy crap 12:14:12 options.h 12:17:05 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.7.0-a0-1563-gadb17c3 (22.1) 12:17:25 while you're at it, put up new windows builds too please 12:20:30 roger 12:20:39 greensnark: sounds likely, will soon test that 12:35:53 done, felirx 12:37:41 yay, might now get to play local games that actually have working key repeat! 12:37:54 victory dancing 20k exp to something by hand is :( 12:43:35 ixtli: what about options.h? 12:43:41 -!- Abuse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:43 victory dancing is :( 12:43:44 by: It's ... odd. 12:43:45 Napkin: thanks! 12:43:52 Why is it a struct? 12:44:04 Also there are multiple public/private sections. 12:44:18 ixtli, is that the first time you noticed it in crawl's code? :P 12:44:22 It's just a little tough to read :) 12:44:28 Zaba: All of my work has been on tiles. 12:44:31 both the usage of 'struct' all around and multiple public/private sections things 12:44:45 they're often split between fields and methods 12:45:16 I had a jolly good laugh the first time I found one of those mispelled classes 12:45:46 it's just a different word? 12:46:09 Yeah, opinions on how strict you have to be reserving structs only for POD vary widely 12:46:14 struct is just a synonym to class that has default access to public 12:46:18 in C++ 12:46:42 the difference between using struct and class is slight, when there are explicit public/private sections 12:47:03 if a struct has a pile of methods, public and private sections 12:47:06 Nonexistent, except for the language lawyers who have nothing better t odo 12:47:12 it's justa misspelled class :D 12:47:19 greensnark, well, there is difference for the members that come before any labels ;p 12:47:26 felirx: That just happens to be your opinion 12:47:45 Places I've worked say that any class-like thing with all public fields should be a struct, whether it has methods or not 12:48:04 Other places say: if it's not plain old data, it should be a class 12:48:20 So don't sweat it, focus on the actual bad code in Crawl instead of rules wankery :P 12:48:29 +1 12:48:33 Amen. 12:48:45 Prost! 12:49:10 greensnark: Hehfiel just mentioned a turn 0 quit in ##crawl 12:50:05 ogaz: Some players still do it 12:50:21 greensnark: I know, I just thought the bots weren't supposed to mention it 12:50:34 My theory is they're looking for specific entry vaults or something 12:50:51 Oh, Hehfiel probably doesn't have spam suppression 12:51:11 alright 12:51:41 joosa would be the person to poke if there's a startscummer in action 12:52:20 well, I've only seen it once so far, so I doubt that it's startscumming(and honestly, startscumming doesn't really bother me); I just thought it wasn't supposed to report 12:53:21 felirx: Obviously. The point is that it's misleading. 12:53:32 Cause when you add member functions it becomes a class ... 12:53:44 ixtli: Rename it to class already :P 12:54:12 ixtli: maybe felirx will commit it :) 12:54:15 greensnark: will you commit my commit with comment 'omg fine here.' 12:54:22 :) 12:54:58 ixtli: Yeah, or someone else will :) 12:55:10 Done and done. 12:55:25 Might want to check for other cases :) 12:55:51 what about a struct with a constructor, is that bad, too? 12:56:08 by: The structs-as-POD crowd argue so 12:56:28 They say that if you can't use brace-style initialization, it should be called a class 12:56:29 because then I'm guilty of adding one recently with newgame_def 12:56:31 Anyway 12:57:04 I've been in enough language lawyer discussions that I find them very very boring and annoying :P 12:57:22 I suggest choosing struct/class depending on whether the first thing declared is public or not, to minimize source length :) 12:57:43 by: "Coding conventions" 12:58:05 If they have something to say on the subject, otherwise do your own thing :P 12:58:14 we should #define class struct 12:58:23 eek 13:00:01 !tell dpeg Do you have ideas for Sprint in tourney with specifics on points and trophies? Please discuss details by start or mid July latest :P 13:00:01 greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:00:26 !tell dpeg Discuss details with rax is what I meant; a neat wiki page with final decisions will be fine for me :P 13:00:26 greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:01:14 I want a second sprint map to test the sprint map choice menu 13:01:28 Didn't Chapayev say he had one 13:01:39 !seen chapayev 13:01:39 I last saw Chapayev at Fri Apr 23 02:51:47 2010 UTC (1w 1d 15h 9m 52s ago) quitting with message Quit: leaving. 13:01:57 not that I noticed 13:02:14 Napkin, do you know? 13:02:22 pardon? 13:02:35 by: I think default constructors are generally considered bad form. 13:02:38 oh - no, he only sent me the suggested patches 13:02:45 which I sent to the mailinglist 13:02:51 *s/he 13:02:53 Though I'm not 100% sure about this. They allow member fields to be initialized with unknown defaults. 13:03:06 I don't imagine this matters all that much, but Enne's code is pretty good about it. 13:03:50 Oh, the new Sprint map is pending review for inclusion? 13:04:09 dpeg wants to save it for the tourney but we are lobbying against it :P 13:04:33 Saving it for tourney sounds like a tourney bugfest like the devnull tourneys 13:05:05 greensnark: the patches on the mailing list didn't include a map 13:05:09 The NH devnull tourney adds a surprise challenge that is revealed only in the tournament, and it's always stuffed to the gills with bugs, or so I'm told 13:07:25 by the way, has Wayne been removed from the original Sprint map in 0.7? He can't smite anymore 13:07:39 no 13:07:45 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:33 Could just do a custom Wayne with smiting and hellfire :P 13:09:00 that sounds like a good idea 13:09:05 or firestorm, maybe? 13:09:18 I hate you people :| 13:09:18 Firestorm sounds a touch above Wayne's pay grade 13:10:13 @??Wayne 13:10:13 Wayne (08@) | Speed: 7 | HD: 17 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Damage: 42 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(113) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1742 | Sp: might, haste. 13:10:23 @? wayne 13:10:23 Wayne (08@) | Speed: 7 | HD: 17 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Damage: 22 | Flags: evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(113) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1246 | Sp: pain, cantrip, smiting, minor healing. 13:10:24 Haste + smiting sounds tasty 13:10:28 Speed 7 is sad, though 13:10:53 Player dwarves aren't slow, why is Wayne? :( 13:11:02 or you could just put a different smiter in instead 13:11:02 so dpeg can keep the hope alive :P 13:11:04 Did someone crossbreed a dwarf and a slug or something 13:11:18 @??giant slug 13:11:19 giant slug (03j) | Speed: 6 | HD: 10 | Health: 50-80 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Damage: 23 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 96. 13:11:22 @??giant snail 13:11:22 giant snail (09j) | Speed: 4 | HD: 14 | Health: 70-112 | AC/EV: 7/2 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(56) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 83. 13:11:36 more like a dwarf and a snail 13:12:01 a dwarf/slug crossbreed would have speed 8 13:12:19 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:31 Inheritence is more interesting than arithmetic means :P 13:12:38 *Inheritance 13:13:06 would "Wayne; spells:smiting" retain the haste? 13:13:11 by: No 13:13:18 It's a replacement slotwise list 13:13:29 so "Wayne; spells:haste;smiting"? 13:13:40 why not just replace him with a different smiter? 13:13:51 That might work, but haste may have to be in some specific slot 13:14:02 why not just use the old spells 13:14:33 also does it matter he doesnt have the spellcaster tag 13:15:02 Oh 13:15:06 as in does it affect his AI in some way 13:15:07 Does he even use those spells? 13:15:08 yes 13:15:24 haste should be in the buff slot 13:15:39 He does have M_SPELLCASTER 13:15:55 @?? doesn't show it 13:15:55 unknown monster: "doesnt show it" 13:16:15 he probably can't be silenced anymore, if I remember the flags correctly 13:16:38 Yes, @?? shows "spellcaster" only for Trog-magic-user-types 13:17:04 he should be silenceable; iirc the player can't you invocations when silenced 13:17:29 He has M_SPELLCASTER and no M_ACTUAL_SPELLS, so he's not silenceable 13:17:35 otherwise it would show swamp dragons as "spellcaster" 13:17:46 Yes 13:17:57 It's just that M_SPELLCASTER is confusing 13:18:23 @??golden dragon 13:18:23 golden dragon (08D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 72-144 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Damage: 40, 20, 20 | Flags: sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(192), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 4101 | Sp: b.fire, b.cold, poisonous cloud. 13:18:43 I wonder why golden dragons use spells, but normal dragons use special abilities. Isn't their fire breath pretty much the same? 13:18:43 You can be M_SPELLCASTER alone, for special abilities and animal spell-like abilities like dragon breaths, or M_SPELLCASTER + M_ACTUAL_SPELLS for wizards and M_SPELLCASTER + M_PRIEST for priests 13:18:56 Special abilities are the old way of doing it 13:19:01 New code should use spells 13:19:15 @??golden eye 13:19:15 golden eye (08G) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 6-18 | AC/EV: 0/20 | Flags: lev | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx | XP: 190. 13:19:22 why doesn't it use spells.. 13:19:36 Well, *ideally* new code should use spells :) 13:19:37 because it's very new code? 13:21:22 Did 4.1 unify monster and player spells? Can't recall 13:21:39 4.0 used to have MST_spellname for monster spells and SPELL_spellname for player spells 13:21:56 And just to keep things interesting, spellname could be different for the same spell in monster and player versions 13:21:58 Zaba: probably because golden eyes were based on giant eyeballs 13:23:39 03dolorous * ref8bbd4cb03f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc religion.cc): Apply MrMisterMonkey's patch in Mantis 1157. 13:24:38 Do TSO minions get halos 13:25:08 Also DS spines should probably not affect monsters using polearms at all 13:25:22 And do less damage in general :) 13:26:55 any bets on when we get the "Cosmetic." commit that puts braces around the dangling else? 13:27:50 greensnark: I think they should have halos, yes 13:28:26 -!- Abuse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:48 radius 2 halo for monsters with holiness() == MH_HOLY 13:29:09 The game menu is rather nifty 13:29:32 Oh, ok, the halo only kicks in one turn after I wizmode the Daeva in 13:29:56 'The Daeva says, "Forge ahead, servant of Elyvilon!"' :P 13:30:33 'The Angel says, "Thou art not yet worthy, servant of Elyvilon."' 13:30:40 Apparently angels have higher standards 13:30:55 and now they're fighting? 13:31:08 The Daeva wandered off 13:31:27 I remember tricking one daeva into killing another in some TSO vault 13:32:36 Just went near and one of them went neutral? 13:33:01 the delay could be avoided by sticking a call to invalidate_agrid() somewhere (or by invalidating LOS) 13:34:07 getting the neutral monsters to move in the right direction can be difficult 13:34:26 Do neutral Daevas try to go offlevel? 13:34:34 I should try an Ely game just for pacification 13:35:50 pacification is fun, once you treat the whole thing as some abstract game and don't look for realism 13:35:50 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:24 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:23 I wonder if sorear is really running irssi as root 13:37:43 Kiku's gifted corpses should not be placed on ther same tile as the player (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1461) by heteroy 13:37:43 Show inscriptions on artifacts after death (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1460) by Lagus 13:37:54 Is doy not around? 13:38:04 !seen doy 13:38:04 I last saw doy at Thu Apr 29 04:54:34 2010 UTC (2d 13h 43m 30s ago) saying "that Ive asked" on ##crawl-dev. 13:38:22 Has he agreed to be 0.7 release manager yet? :P 13:38:29 Ooh! 13:38:32 Shoals splat <3 13:39:04 !tv * Shoals 13:39:21 179. nubinia, XL19 SpSt, T:79165 requested for FooTV. 13:42:23 well 13:42:29 That was terribly played :P 13:42:42 Also for a Nemelex worshipper to have only three decks on hand... 13:42:46 is really weird :P 13:47:36 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:57 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:14 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:03 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:08 greensnark: i just update dgl on NAO to the svn version... 14:04:09 the new tutorial is really good 14:11:14 greensnark: fwiw: lorddarko continues to evade bans, and there's nothing the freenode staff can really do about it 14:11:26 (he has a large ISP which assigns IPs randomly out of a big pool on connect) 14:11:43 the +q on all webchat users is to force them to register before they speak 14:12:07 so anyone with ops in ##crawl, if you get a message from a webchat user that they can't speak, and they're registered and identified, add +e $a: 14:14:59 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 14:16:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:50 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:27 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:51 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:52 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:12 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:32 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:36 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:50:54 -!- Gernony has quit [] 15:51:12 -!- Gernony has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:18 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:09 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:16 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:31 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:11 greensnark: your experimental dgl fix for big ttyrecs hitting ulimit doesn't seem to work for me. on nao, it doesn't find clrscr escapes at all, so plays back the ttyrec always from the beginning... 16:58:51 Can't select Makhleb for Chaos Knights (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1462) by pixnaps 17:10:24 -!- Enne_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:25 -!- Enne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:25 -!- Enne_ is now known as Enne 17:10:33 -!- Enne has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:04 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:18 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:01 -!- Gernony has quit [] 18:54:08 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:03:50 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:07 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:12 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:34:46 Scrolls of blinking (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1463) by psyshvl 19:36:02 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:59 Yawn 20:05:41 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:09 -!- Luca has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:27 -!- Luca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:29 -!- Abuse has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:50 -!- Abuse has quit [] 22:56:18 paxed: I think the big-ttyrec fix only works for \e[2J 22:56:18 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:14:53 "Vampires should start with a +0/+0 Gothic Cloak too so he can pull the thing over his lips and hiss menancingly at hobgolbins. Do the Devs not watch the old horrors?" <3 23:16:22 <3 23:16:32 I'm so for that. 23:16:42 Nosferatu unique! 23:25:41 -!- Siber has quit [Quit: Whoa! Partial hit!]