00:57:46 Minotaur manual entry is wrong (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1420) by TGW 01:04:43 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:13 how many lines are left in the race select? 01:05:22 I think you could fit in an aptitude table 01:06:50 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 01:09:20 -!- Eronarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:01 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:54 only show multidrop cursor if using the appropriate commands (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1421) by TGW 03:18:31 Allied kills shouldn't interrupt butchering. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1422) by Kyrris 04:07:21 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:01 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:09 due: Overall I think the changes look awesome, just wanted to repeat some caveats but looks like you got them covered. :) I'll do the cdo windows build so the rest of the UP team can check the changes (me too at some point, busy with the same course felirx is busy with (plus other stuff)) 04:27:09 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:27:24 night all 04:27:27 Textmode: Nights! 04:27:54 * Textmode huggles Keskitalo 04:28:05 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 04:28:17 due: Technically, the UP is over but I think the people (like felirx) are interested in checking the changes out :) 04:31:18 ixtli's changes got merged, which is awesome 04:31:49 Compiling Windows on cdo, let's see if it goes through. 04:31:57 Keskitalo: Let me know if that goes ok. 04:32:06 felirx had some issues last night with windows build 04:32:17 it was just a syntax error but i don't have a machine to test windows on 04:32:53 Keskitalo: are you guys leaving D: 04:35:39 ixtli: Well, let me explain the usability project shortly.. we (the UP team) did a project course for our university studies, and our project was the UP. The course itself is over now. I was a DCSS dev to start with (yay for studies-hobbies synergy), and looks like felirx is sticking around too (yay!) :) I hope the other people will also stay involved! 04:36:27 zenna is on the channel at least :) 04:38:15 ixtli: compiling tilesdl.cc errored, the same as felirx's 04:39:07 soo I should look at includes? I have no idea, but I'll try to poke around briefly, I can try to fix it locally 04:39:34 just switch BOOL to bool 04:39:38 i dunno how that happened 04:39:44 but the other thing is an includes issue 04:39:58 it's weird because i never edited that section 04:40:16 Keskitalo: How many were there in total? 04:41:17 Keskitalo: Also, re: staying: Yay! :D 04:41:31 But yeah I can't test the windows build here :( 04:41:53 sorear: We had five people, there's also another team doing Usability Testing course, user testing the (previous) tutorial 04:47:56 I already have their heuristic evaluation, which is interesting because it uses different heuristics than we did, I just haven't gotten around to posting it to the wiki.. 04:55:38 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:11:50 Okay; I got a working build locally by doing the following: #ifdef TARGET_OS_WINDOWS #include #endif and no other changes - is that proper and good for commit? 05:12:08 ..well, somewhat working, looks like it's not accepting keyboard input. (mouse works fine) 05:27:37 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:50 Keskitalo: uuuuuh xD 05:28:02 Keskitalo: pastebin me a diff? 05:31:37 http://crawl.pastebin.com/9JgMVwKX 05:31:47 That got rid of all the compile errors (including the BOOL thing) 05:32:08 Got some warnings though: 05:32:10 tilesdl.cc: In member function 'int TilesFramework::getch_ck()': 05:32:10 tilesdl.cc:568: warning: case label value exceeds maximum value for type 05:32:11 tilesdl.cc:578: warning: case label value exceeds maximum value for type 05:32:42 HMMM getch_ck sounds like it *might* affect keyboard input :D 05:36:24 type being wm_event in this case, values being WM_KEYDOWN and WM_KEYUP 05:49:30 Keskitalo: What do you think of the vi-keys/num-pad stuff at the beginning? 05:49:49 hmm 06:01:46 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:17 Keskitalo: That patch seems fine. 06:03:10 Assuming it works :) 06:04:08 windows.h defines BOOL for whatever the reason 06:04:12 is there anything aside from water that prevents monsters from moving but not from throwing? 06:04:15 too hard to use inbuild types 06:04:30 felirx: ugh 06:04:32 sigh 06:04:37 then i guess it was supposed to be BOOL 06:04:46 This is why I shouldn't be allowed near win32 code :( 06:05:01 who needs a boolean type... 06:05:04 Also I'm going to have to investigate struct wm_event in windowmanager.h 06:05:12 i think it may have regressed. 06:06:40 it really should be a union 06:07:30 that's the only reason it should have a member 'type' at the top... 06:07:41 Enne and I talked about this a while back. 06:11:11 Zaba: Lava? 06:11:29 anything else? 06:11:40 hmm.. bushes? 06:11:49 Bushs, yeah. 06:15:25 crystal wall thingy allows summoning through and smite targeting 06:15:32 But not throwing 06:15:38 yap 06:20:10 Keskitalo: http://crawl.pastebin.com/TTzbpLH7 06:20:14 Keskitalo: do that. 06:20:19 See what happens. 06:22:59 * due eats ixtli. 06:24:01 :o 06:24:33 due: you're lucky laptops have backlights or that would seriously impair my ability to work on crawl :D 06:29:02 :) 06:31:16 due: It's probably ok, it was planned like felirx said, I'm only worried the vi-keys confusing new players *but* displaying the numpad *and* displaying vi-keys as the chart should help. 06:31:36 due: Thanks for all the changes! :) 06:31:52 :) 06:31:54 Not finished yet! 06:31:57 ixtli: I'll try it out, cooking lunch simultaneously.. 06:32:09 Still working at unhardcoding all the key references.. 06:32:56 Okay, shower and stuff, I need to get to bed early for work. 06:33:32 OH MAN 06:33:36 I just found a theme for Louise. 06:34:19 "An expert in the art of translocations, it is said that she can exist simultaneously in many places at one." 06:34:23 <3 Dune. 06:39:15 ixtli: No change. :/ Still the same warnings. 06:39:30 (and behaviour - no response to keyboard) 06:39:54 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:47 So strange. 06:51:55 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:26 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:01 Keskitalo: I'm still having a problem building from scratch anyway 07:01:12 so maybe we can just let neunon, the solver of all problems, solve this problem. 07:01:34 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:47 I made a mistake, type iss actually unsigned char. Values still WM_KEYDOWN and WM_KEYUP, I don't know what those actually are. The compiler did not warn about other sourcefiles which use those. 07:07:16 ixtli, regarding http://crawl.pastebin.com/TTzbpLH7, um, unions don't work like that... 07:07:32 if you just change 'struct' to 'union' in that case, 'type' is also a member of the union 07:07:51 and that makes little sense 07:09:04 you need something like struct wm_event { unsigned char type; union { /* The rest of the members. */ }; }; 07:09:26 er.. well.. I think anonymous unions are a gcc extension in C, and not sure whether they're available, or standard, in C++ 07:09:53 ah, google suggests that they are indeed standard in C++ 07:11:03 show_type was a union at some point: http://sprunge.us/KCVV 07:11:49 why isn't it anymore? 07:12:07 using unions in item_def might be a good idea (for sub_type, plus, plus2, ...) 07:12:22 by, maybe subclasses for specific item types would be more appropriate? 07:12:49 Zaba: because we want to know both feature and monster in a square 07:12:57 I see 07:15:02 Some incorporeal creatures are misflagged (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1423) by OG17 07:15:08 re subclasses, maybe, but changing to unions would not require rewriting everything 07:15:18 and make the code a whole lot clearer 07:16:25 e.g., mons_class_can_be_zombified(item.corpse_mons) instead of mons_class_can_be_zombified(item.plus) 07:17:15 of course, just defining monster_type item_def::corpse_mons() that asserts item.base_type == OBJ_CORPSES would help 07:18:46 similar methods could be created for other properties of items that are currently accessed through item type-specific mechanisms. 07:19:10 I wonder why staves and rods are technically one item type 07:19:20 it seems to make little sense, if any 07:25:24 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:27:15 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:23 Zaba: I've wondered the same recently. Rods used to be "spell staves", but I don't think they've ever really shared common game mechanics (apart from using Staves skill in melee). 07:27:47 shouldn't staves be weapons? 07:28:10 I mean the basic elemental staves 07:30:08 Crash on casting simulacrum on unraisable corpses (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1424) by OG17 07:30:46 -!- stabwound- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:34:46 I have trouble compiling in Ubuntu.. why does it nag "/bin/sh: i486-linux-gnu-g++: not found" :P 07:35:50 sudo apt-get install build-essentials! 07:38:21 ixtli: are your linking errors related to _X11_bootstrap, _DGA_bootstrap? 07:50:02 !tell neunon Please apply patch in #1425 to contrib/sdl. 07:50:02 by: OK, I'll let neunon know. 07:50:15 Mac OS X command line tiles build fails to link (libsdl) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1425) by rob 07:50:16 !tell ixtil Patch in #1425 may or may not help with your linking problems. 07:50:16 by: OK, I'll let ixtil know. 07:51:11 what's the status of the ipad port 07:56:34 hey 07:57:22 syllogism: i just got my stuff committed. Now I have a branch that makes crawl buffer vertices better 07:57:30 syllogism: After this, I will start iPad-specific dev. 07:57:33 Which should be pretty quick. 07:57:46 by: Yes they are. 07:57:53 by: I will apply this patch. 07:58:03 ixtli: yeah that's why I asked 07:58:16 :) 07:58:27 syllogism: I think i'm going to try and write a wiki page on porting to 'weird' platforms. 07:58:31 I hope this time neunon updates contrib before I accidentally push the updated contrib/sdl two or three times 07:58:45 by: Oh my god I know. 07:58:59 by: It's annoying to always have to specify the files I want to commit. 08:00:07 felirx: I am slighlty shocked at having to do that.. 08:00:23 ubuntu has never come with build tools installed 08:00:39 I don't remember doing that last time, but I probably did then. :) 08:00:41 nor it will ever 08:02:05 by: the minotaur + lab thing is a regression. 08:02:07 After that, I had sdl trobule, I apt-got sdl, now I have SDL_image.h error which didn't go away by installing libsdl-image (and anyway it looks like it's in the contribs..) 08:02:19 Keskitalo: you need the -dev package. 08:02:34 ah, thanks. that rings a bell.. 08:02:45 If in doubt, look for a -dev package. 08:03:38 I'll try to remember that. :) 08:03:56 Ok, looks good now. (msysgit was easier :P) 08:04:07 Thanks, felirx, due! 08:04:24 sudo apt-get install buildessential 08:04:27 may require hypenation 08:04:31 sudo apt-get build-dep crawl 08:04:37 should work at some point :) 08:04:42 :) 08:04:43 :) 08:40:02 -!- ogaz has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 08:44:50 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:44:50 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:16 !tell due Just checked out the tutorial tweaks, they're excellent! I agree with by about dropping the bits about closing doors. (I think those were in the initial messages.. they should go) If it only says the bit about opening doors by moving into them, it'll be short and sweet. 08:50:16 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let due know. 08:51:16 !tell due Also, I think that in the wield/wear stuff, when you're playing tiles, it should only mention the mouse operations, not keyboard at all. Inventory handling is great with the mouse, and again it'll keep the messages simple and easy to digest. 08:51:16 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let due know. 09:01:33 03Keskitalo * r2f7f596882fc 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: Partially fix Windows tiles compilation. It'll now compile, but they keyboard input is not working. 09:02:01 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:04:42 yes, the tutorial needn't give all the information, just the most useful way to do something, I think. There's always ?? of people want to know more. 09:15:47 -!- by_ is now known as by 09:18:52 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:17 -!- bhaak has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:30:35 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:49 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 10:50:15 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:43 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:28 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:05:24 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:57 03dolorous * r92deac9c732c 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Implement a few suggestions from Mantis 1423. 12:45:19 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:10 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:04 03dolorous * rb11471e68a75 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Add missing "else". 12:53:55 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:35 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:47 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:49 !tell dpeg with the ac nerf and relative unpopularity of MdFi, now might be the best time to go through with a radical okawaru revamp. Regardless, I did slap a more moderate suggestion on the devwiki. 13:30:49 LordSloth: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:30:49 LordSloth: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:30:55 !messages 13:30:55 (1/1) TGWi said (23h 2m 11s ago): you're fired 13:31:10 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 13:32:19 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:26 03dolorous * r1ece4b432ce7 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Generalize checks for icy and skeletal monsters when casting Shatter. 13:35:37 03dolorous * r1f452bc437b6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Move the check for being skeletal to the actor interface. 13:38:48 03dolorous * r280e33c522c3 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: In Shatter, check for flying monsters after icy and skeletal monsters. 13:47:14 jump to portal on X map (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1426) by Abuse 14:12:31 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:41 !seen doy 14:12:42 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:12:42 I last saw doy at Sat Apr 24 02:51:30 2010 UTC (1d 16h 21m 12s ago) saying what was the hack? on ##crawl-dev. 14:12:50 !messages 14:12:51 (1/4) Cryp71c said (3d 4h 42m 5s ago): rpburnham 14:13:35 !messages 14:13:35 (1/3) LordSloth said (2d 4h 26m 47s ago): Tukimas Dancing Pizza - new god wrath - be sure to ask about it later. 14:13:42 !messages 14:13:42 (1/2) LordSloth said (1d 3h 35m 36s ago): In case I forget to update devwiki: Further experience with shroom pathfinding. It seems that corners are particularly troublesome with two or three, since as soon as they lose sight of you, they wander in the opposite direction, instead of stalk you like hostile shrooms. 14:15:33 !messages 14:15:33 (1/1) LordSloth said (44m 44s ago): with the ac nerf and relative unpopularity of MdFi, now might be the best time to go through with a radical okawaru revamp. Regardless, I did slap a more moderate suggestion on the devwiki. 14:15:46 LordSloth: Hi there! 14:16:23 !seen Cryp71c 14:16:24 I last saw Cryp71c at Fri Apr 23 22:21:37 2010 UTC (1d 20h 54m 47s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 14:16:35 !seen felirx 14:16:35 I last saw felirx at Sun Apr 25 19:05:53 2010 UTC (10m 42s ago) saying thats what yuo get for messing around with confusion effects on ##crawl. 14:16:41 mm? 14:16:48 Hi dpeg 14:17:08 felirx: could you try pulling and pushing something? You should have commit rights now. :) 14:17:58 LordSloth: thanks for the wiki stuff. I agree with the Okawaru proposal, I am just not sure I have a coder (and it will be rough campaigning no matter what). Would you add the shroom comment to the wiki? If you can't, I'll paste it there verbatim. 14:18:23 !tell Cryp71c Can you try if git access works? You should have it at last :) 14:18:23 dpeg: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 14:22:43 pull seems to work at least 14:22:49 dpeg: What was my shroom comment about, corners? 14:23:24 Yeah, I need to not stupidly suicide my next Og of Fedhas, and I'll update with both corners AND ugly things. 14:23:29 Thanks for reminding me. 14:28:05 LordSloth: about corners, yes. See ^. 14:28:28 felirx: do you have some cosmetic patch you could upload? 14:30:51 nothing :( 14:31:14 haven't had time to do anything but this uni course for the past 4 or 5 days 14:32:21 felirx: don't sweat it. I've been away for essentially the whole week, and when I come back, I find the new tutorial improved some more. This is so good -- much better than when Johanna and I clumsily poked together the old tutorial. 14:33:28 dpeg: I'll get off my ass within an hour or so. I'm just catching up on some reading at the moment. 14:33:35 due has been making quite extensive improvements to the basic logic 14:35:14 felirx: yes, your input triggers an avalanche, as it should be :) 14:41:57 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:41:03 03by * ra8c0ff94c36d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc newgame.cc newgame_def.h): Clean up newgame.cc:_choose_book. 15:57:24 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:02:59 Add an achievement system to Crawl? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1427) by Gernony 16:04:04 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:09:35 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Getting off my ass] 16:22:02 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:44 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:13 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:39 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:05 morning all 18:01:19 -!- SquashMonster has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:36 03Enne * r255e8100b2ff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilereg.cc tilereg.h tilesdl.cc): Simplify TileRegion constructors. 18:34:40 03Enne * redacdc0db313 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Reduce dependencies on tilereg.h. 18:34:41 03Enne * r8305dc11a61b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (47 files): Split tilereg.h/cc into multiple files. 18:36:01 oooh, moving towards one class in one file structure? 18:38:35 no 18:38:43 that would be ridiculous 18:38:57 1/3 of Crawl is in class player 18:39:18 if it was one file, you'd have to feed 100,000 lines of code through g++ whenever you changed anything anywhere 18:39:29 which would make turnaround hellishly slow 18:45:40 hi 18:45:41 due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:45:47 !messages 18:45:48 (1/2) Keskitalo said (9h 55m 31s ago): Just checked out the tutorial tweaks, they're excellent! I agree with by about dropping the bits about closing doors. (I think those were in the initial messages.. they should go) If it only says the bit about opening doors by moving into them, it'll be short and sweet. 18:45:56 !messages 18:45:57 (1/1) Keskitalo said (9h 54m 40s ago): Also, I think that in the wield/wear stuff, when you're playing tiles, it should only mention the mouse operations, not keyboard at all. Inventory handling is great with the mouse, and again it'll keep the messages simple and easy to digest. 18:46:06 Yep, that's what I was planning. 18:51:58 !tell Keskitalo That's what I had intended to do. It already references ?? for a list of commands, so I'm pretty happy. 18:51:58 due: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 19:00:15 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:15 LordSloth: I like your version of Okawaru 19:11:13 SquashMonster: I don't really have it very thoroughly thought out, but thanks. 19:11:47 I do think this might be dpeg's chance to push through a radical okawaru makeover, given the current migration away from MdFi. 19:12:00 that may be true 19:12:04 I like the double-god one too 19:12:19 I actually have a couple other okawaru variants.... My Old SF loging was cloture. 19:12:41 The last variant had a theme, but didn't really congeal, so you wont see it on the devwiki anywhere. 19:12:50 Just a text document on my desktop. 19:13:01 !seen dpeg 19:13:02 I last saw dpeg at Sun Apr 25 21:04:03 2010 UTC (3h 8m 59s ago) quitting with message Quit: Lost terminal. 19:13:05 what was the theme? 19:13:23 Reinforcing good newbie behavior, rewarding good strategy. 19:13:36 For instance, a slaying boni for one-on-one fights. 19:13:55 In other words, running with the whole newbie god thing. 19:14:05 yeah, that's actually quite clever 19:14:17 I wasn't sure it would be more fun though. 19:14:46 I should rescue that from oblivion someday, and throw it up on brainstorming, because its well, brainstorming, not FRs 19:15:05 yeah 19:15:09 Perhaps Monday, if I remember where I stored that text file. 19:15:40 !tell dpeg Fedhas, done. Ugly thing update still to do. 19:15:40 LordSloth: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 19:15:41 oh, reminds me; do you know how I create a new page on the wiki? 19:16:08 SquashMonster: Ever request elevation of your wiki priveledges from default user? 19:16:25 I didn't. Where do I do that? 19:16:34 Mantis. Let me link. 19:18:29 ok 19:19:33 Eh, it got reorganised a bit. 19:19:59 I'm not entirely certain any more, but I went over https://crawl.develz.org/mantis 19:20:10 To submit a rquest for elevation 19:20:19 You may want to change project in the top right 19:20:58 Okay, yeah, open a new tracker item under the Wiki Project 19:20:59 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=464 19:21:16 That's my old one, got moved to the wiki section once the reorg got doen. 19:22:00 There's a tracker category [Wiki] Access Request 19:22:19 In the short term, I could open a page for you, if you need now now. 19:22:36 nah, no hurry 19:22:47 It was within 24 hours for me. 19:22:49 I'll get to it when I figure this out 19:23:14 SquashMonster: Is it a random god idea you want to submit? 19:23:29 If so, there's a full on page for assorted god brainstorms you can edit. 19:23:38 one god and one class 19:24:42 ah, okay. I'll just put it up there when it's more fleshed out 19:25:12 mind if I run those by you? 19:29:02 Don't mind, nope. 19:29:38 Well, you can put up your less fleshed out on the brainstorm page: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:other 19:30:07 I don't see a page for new classes, however. 19:30:16 What's the class idea you have? 19:30:21 probably because we have too many already, haha 19:30:48 Druid; a spellcaster/religion hybrid. Starts with Fedhas, spellbook full of nature spells. The spellbook doesn't have a consistent school, so it's not as good of a starting book as other spellcasters 19:31:59 SquashMonster: There is a page on character selection, and reorganising that page. You're not considering simply making a priest of Fedhas an option? 19:32:02 (summon butterflies, sticks to snakes, ensorcelled hibernation, spider form, tame beasts, condensation shield, swiftness, tame beasts) 19:32:18 Also, that class actually sounds way too good. 19:32:27 yeah, that's what I was afraid of 19:32:47 I thought giving it disconnected schools would make it harder to get anywhere 19:33:02 Butteflies, quite popular. Hibernation, same. Spider Form, lets you run. Combined with swiftness? 19:33:15 do those stack? 19:33:22 ??swiftness 19:33:22 swiftness[1/2]: The Swiftness enchantment reduces your movement delay by 2; this reduction is increased to 4 if you are Flying (note that levitating isn't enough). Spriggans are unaffected by swiftness unless not at their base speed for whatever reason. Centaurs only benefit from 1 of the 2 point boost. 19:33:27 ??swiftness[2] 19:33:27 swiftness[2/2]: Note that if you are standing in shallow water, casting Swiftness is wasted - it will make the water foam, but not grant you any beneficial status. 19:33:30 Not sure. 19:33:36 I support any class that starts with butterflies! 19:33:52 I DO need to get off my ass and design a book of buttermancy 19:34:04 I still want to ascend one character first in 0.6. 19:34:22 But that isn't so likely with my fixation on OgEE 19:34:27 ;) 19:34:35 I won one defe in 0.6 and moved back to playing trunk 19:34:40 yeah, my initial tests for it seemed too strong. If spellcaster/religion seems interesting to other people though, I might just go make some worse spells to replace the awesome ones 19:35:14 SquashMonster: remember that there are plans to do-over the spell system for 0.7 or 0.8 - see Eronarn 19:35:18 SquashMonster: I'm actually a bit concerned about a simple priest of Fedhas being strong enoug as it is. 19:35:18 it has what, 4 escape spells listed? 19:35:30 butterflies, spider, swift, sticks to snakes 19:35:41 felirx: I noticed that. Plus Fedhas... 19:36:06 SquashMonster: My ogre of Fedhas got his first wandering mushroom within 2000 turns of the temple. 19:36:18 By the very next floor, in fact. 19:36:23 you had to wait for the temple? 19:36:35 Yeah, I needed the altar. 19:37:02 maybe it's just my weird luck, but I see early altars to Fedhas in about half my games 19:37:02 You forget, despite your playtesting, he's not a starting god. 19:37:22 Oh, I did see one early altar one game, just totally inaccessible behind lava. 19:37:30 That ticked me off. 19:37:37 heh 19:38:21 the oklob overflow altar is pretty cool 19:38:24 when I first started playing 0.6 and couldn't get very far, I kept being annoyed at all the early Fedhas altars when I'd already tried that and wanted to move onto Chei 19:39:06 Anyways, point is, if you're starting with Fedhas piety, you'd have your first pet by d:2 or so. 19:39:23 how about if you start with Fedhas as your god, but no piety? 19:39:37 Fun enough problem to overcome, however, introduce a new pet/plant type. 19:39:41 then you get excommunicated after 10 turns :D 19:39:48 There's a whole list of brainstorms on the devwiki 19:39:56 yeah, I've been reading it 19:39:59 Summon tumbleweed! 19:40:14 Oh, you've seen the new plant monsters page already 19:40:16 I missed that though 19:40:33 Oh no, summon tumbleweed is this halfassed 15 second old idea 19:40:41 haha 19:40:44 oh. Right then. 19:41:17 Could be a pet with no attack, can be fired through by monsters, just occupies space, making running easier. 19:42:00 Could evolve it to on of the grass type concept plants. 19:42:10 I think there should be a monster with wandering mushroom's AI that doesn't have confusion 19:42:39 Non-Sonja kobold assassins, just to mess with retreats? 19:42:40 I mean that in general, but it might work as a pet too 19:43:02 Just poison needles and poison dagger, no curare/distortion 19:43:32 Maybe gnoll, just cause we've got too many kobolds for my taste already, the damned kobolds. 19:43:38 oh, I was thinking another mushroom, but that's actually really clever 19:43:46 an assassin that stalks you in the shadows 19:44:29 I wouldn't have thought about using the shroom ai for anything else till you brought it up 19:44:54 Could you imagine sonja with that AI though? Shudders 19:45:07 I prefer not to imagine sonja at all 19:45:25 the shroom AI is really interesting all by itself though. Even a non-attacking hunk of plant meat that follows it would have the potential to ruin your day 19:46:14 Okay, that last sentence confuses my text adventure parsers. 19:46:55 So you're talking about a more buff plant with melee attack, or that stans there? 19:47:06 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:new_monsters 19:47:10 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:plants 19:47:17 I'm going to post my assassin idea 19:47:19 each would be interesting 19:49:12 Swamp and shoals staircase flavor tweak (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1428) by OG17 19:51:31 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:03 !tell dpeg Also, co-operative brainstorm with SquashMonster on a kobold asssassin using the wandering mushrooms stalker AI. 19:58:03 LordSloth: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 19:58:37 speaking of plant monsters... 19:59:26 what if there was this sort of squash... 19:59:36 /w 37 19:59:37 oops 20:00:08 SquashMonster: Did you know there are actually legends about vampiric squash? 20:00:34 I did; though I thought watermelons were more common 20:00:48 Gourds, I guess might be more precise. 20:01:12 We need a half-dozen gourd monsters. 20:01:14 it's okay, my mental-image of what a squash monster looks like is really more of a gourd monster anyway 20:01:57 for some reason, it reminds me of a monster I was going to have in a roguelike I was making 20:02:15 they would run up to you, and force themselves into your inventory (if your inventory is full, they make you drop something) 20:02:28 Heh, that does sound amusing. 20:02:36 while in inventory, they do damage (slowly) 20:02:43 you have to throw them away, then kill them 20:02:55 Sounds sorta like something you might find in Shiren. 20:03:07 Different, though. 20:03:10 it does, now that you mention it 20:03:19 Shiren is all about super-special-case monsters 20:04:58 oh man, invisible kobold assassins? 20:05:20 Only invisible until they attack, but yeah! 20:05:28 terrifying 20:05:31 Work out the best timing for it while you're at it. 20:05:38 No point in attacking you when you're alone. 20:06:06 most aggravating monster possible: wandering mushroom AI, invisible, imp blinking 20:06:22 They'd rpolly be pretty weak in pure stats. Hence why they took up ambushing 20:06:29 yeah 20:06:42 they could even just be regular kobolds 20:06:55 Has anyone here played with Smart Kobold? 20:07:25 sorear: I've heard about it, never seen it though 20:08:28 this is the first I've heard of it. It sounds interesting 20:31:18 okay, god idea. God of vendettas. Born out of the frustration of all the adventurers that have died in the dungeon 20:32:16 he wants you to kill everything in the dungeon, while he destroys it. Passive ability destroys walls around you, conduct is no letting enemies escape 20:39:58 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:41:33 Well, it sounds hands off, to say the least. Almost more of a conduct than a set of tools. 20:42:16 It's as uninteresting as a 'god of plants', though don't let that discourage you, since that simple idea got fleshed out enough. 20:43:23 well, yeah. I've hit a bit of a roadblock coming up with benefits that thematically fit 20:45:04 We've already got a god of the abyss, but if we didn't, you could like summon black holes or something to introduce terrain features. 20:46:00 If we still had sourceforge, id recommend you read through all the feedback on rejected god ideas, to see where they came short. 20:46:18 It's easier to understand through comparison than looking at the approved gods. 20:46:35 But you got to see the design philosophy of the devs explained. 20:46:43 well, the original idea was to have him slowly replace everything you encounter with a wall. But then I realized this would have some major problems with the orb run 20:47:43 Try forgetting about the theme, and starting with a series of three/four abilities. 20:48:06 Then reshape the god theme to match what sounds promising to you. 20:48:24 heh, that's actually how I got here 20:48:48 I think I actually screwed up when I removed bits I was unsure of, instead of just finding fixes 20:49:38 Okay then... Try a developing a rough patch, playing that through a bit, and...? 20:49:46 I can't really be helpful, sorry. 20:49:47 yeah 20:49:54 thanks, I'm just being vague anyway 20:50:11 Chei changed a huge amount from the original implementation, anyways. 20:50:15 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:20 oh? What was the original Chei? 20:50:35 You can borrow imagination of others if you have something to spark it with. 20:50:50 SquashMonster: There was no stat/resist gains, you could only ponder one item. 20:51:12 Also, the Arcane Marksman starting book got totally scrapped 20:52:06 do you know how difficult adding a god is, code-wise? 20:53:19 The problem is bits and pieces are scattered all over the files. 20:53:32 yeah, I've noticed that with other things 20:53:51 making a race was a pain. Class was fairly well organized, but then classes only effect startup 20:54:13 I'd ask dpeg if he knows where the original 'patches' were for the three new gods, so you can look at them. 20:54:25