00:02:26 besides, we already have the problem of locating runtime support files solved, considering we already do it for maps 00:09:38 for very limited values of "solved" 00:10:13 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:16 the Crawl runtime resource locator fails in non-ASCII paths on OSX, in DOS builds without extremely careful management of LFN bits, ... 00:10:29 I think we have spaces problems too on at least one major platform 00:10:31 DOS is no longer supported though, no? 00:10:49 i thought we fixed the non-ascii paths issue 00:10:53 almost positive we did 00:11:02 and yeah, we don't support dos anymore 00:13:24 yeah, I knew we didn't build .6 binaries for them 00:28:44 doy, so if you're against powder, and simple format-files wouldn't be a huge improvement, is there a middle ground? 00:28:55 not powder per se, but powder's methodology 00:36:45 I think what doy wants to see more of is *runtime* parsing 00:37:04 so next time greensnark comes you'll need to steal this from him 00:37:56 !seen greensnark 00:37:56 I last saw greensnark at Thu Apr 1 04:05:33 2010 UTC (2w 4d 1h 32m 23s ago) quitting with message Quit: leaving. 00:41:25 it should be stressed that POWDER was designed for a system with /no filesystem at all/, so the non-presense of runtime loading is not meaningful 00:49:21 night all 00:49:59 sorear, ah, gotcha. I have no experience with that, obviously I know how it works, in theory 00:50:17 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 00:54:11 How does that work, then. Does it load the entire datfile at runtime, or just reference it when it needs to? 00:54:40 there is no datfile 00:54:52 the data is converted into C++ and compiled into the executable 00:55:01 which is then written into ROM 00:55:41 ohhhh 00:55:42 gotcha 00:56:06 I presume that has speed gains vs filesize growth, then? 01:00:15 What do you mean by "files" 01:01:08 a GBA cartridge is like an ISA card 01:01:14 it's physically wired into the bus 01:01:41 the ROM inside becomes part of the memory circuitry, and the program code appears at certain addresses 01:01:53 there is no disk, no files, and no file size growth 01:23:48 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:03 sorear: I'll show you 'physically wired into the bus' 01:27:28 eh? 01:31:19 I don't even know 01:31:41 * doy physically wires elly to the bus 01:31:51 see, doy knows how it is 01:46:03 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:35 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:19:59 hellooo 02:20:23 * due wires doy into the bus. 02:44:07 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:23 hey rob 02:44:29 hi 02:48:00 !lg * cv=0.6 killer=uniq s=killer 02:48:00 1969 games for * (cv=0.6 killer=uniq): 473x Sigmund, 247x Terence, 159x Ijyb, 149x Crazy Yiuf, 129x Jessica, 104x Blork the orc, 103x Prince Ribbit, 102x Duvessa, 67x Edmund, 59x Menkaure, 56x Dowan, 32x Pikel, 28x Rupert, 24x Agnes, 21x Erolcha, 20x Nikola, 20x Gastronok, 18x Nessos, 17x Purgy, 14x Erica, 10x Norbert, 10x Joseph, 6x Jozef, 6x Psyche, 6x Grum, 5x Snorg, 5x Mara, 5x Aizul, 5x Harol... 02:48:30 Nessos is doing well :) 02:48:39 !lg * cv=0.6 killer=sonja 02:48:39 2. WereDictionary the Conjurer (L10 DECj), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, mangled by Sonja (a +0,+0 short sword of distortion) on D:11 on 2010-04-16, with 6372 points after 14063 turns and 1:15:36. 02:48:55 !lg * cv=0.6 src=cao killer=uniq s=killer 02:48:55 strange how lethal sonja is in sprint compared to the real game 02:48:55 1884 games for * (cv=0.6 src=cao killer=uniq): 454x Sigmund, 237x Terence, 153x Ijyb, 142x Crazy Yiuf, 125x Jessica, 100x Blork the orc, 99x Duvessa, 98x Prince Ribbit, 63x Edmund, 58x Menkaure, 52x Dowan, 32x Pikel, 27x Rupert, 23x Agnes, 20x Erolcha, 19x Gastronok, 19x Nikola, 17x Purgy, 16x Nessos, 14x Erica, 10x Joseph, 9x Norbert, 6x Grum, 6x Jozef, 5x Maud, 5x Maurice, 5x Psyche, 5x Aizul, 4... 02:49:06 Yiuf! 02:49:33 Ijyb and Yiuf are pretty close. 02:49:37 Sigmund is, clearly, ahead of the pack. 02:49:45 !lg * cv=0.6 src=cao ikiller=uniq s=killer 02:49:46 2039 games for * (cv=0.6 src=cao ikiller=uniq): 454x Sigmund, 237x Terence, 153x Ijyb, 142x Crazy Yiuf, 125x Jessica, 100x Blork the orc, 99x Duvessa, 98x Prince Ribbit, 85x a slave, 63x Edmund, 58x Menkaure, 52x Dowan, 32x Pikel, 27x Rupert, 23x Agnes, 20x Erolcha, 19x Gastronok, 19x Nikola, 17x Purgy, 16x Nessos, 15x a war dog, 14x Erica, 10x Joseph, 9x Norbert, 6x a smoke demon, 6x Jozef, 6x Gr... 02:50:03 !lg * cv=0.6 src=cao ikiller=uniq s=ikiller 02:50:03 2039 games for * (cv=0.6 src=cao ikiller=uniq): 454x Sigmund, 237x Terence, 153x Ijyb, 142x Crazy Yiuf, 125x Jessica, 117x Pikel, 101x Blork the orc, 99x Duvessa, 98x Prince Ribbit, 63x Edmund, 58x Menkaure, 52x Dowan, 35x Xom, 27x Rupert, 23x Agnes, 22x Gastronok, 21x Grum, 20x Erolcha, 19x Nikola, 17x Purgy, 16x Nessos, 14x Erica, 10x Joseph, 9x Mara, 9x Norbert, 6x Maurice, 6x Josephine, 6x Joz... 02:50:07 That's better. 02:50:12 9x Mara! 02:50:14 !lg * cv=0.6 killer=crazy yiuf s=kaux 02:50:14 149 games for * (cv=0.6 killer=crazy yiuf): 23x a +3,+2 quarterstaff of chaos, 21x a +3,+4 quarterstaff of chaos, 16x a +4,+3 quarterstaff of chaos, 15x a +4,+4 quarterstaff of chaos, 14x a +2,+4 quarterstaff of chaos, 14x a +2,+2 quarterstaff of chaos, 12x a +4,+2 quarterstaff of chaos, 11x a +2,+3 quarterstaff of chaos, 7x a +3,+3 quarterstaff of chaos, 2x wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}, 2x ... 02:50:30 once people learn not to melee yiuf, his kill rate will go down 02:50:32 117 for Pikel <3. 02:50:46 I'm glad Nessos at least has some kills now. 02:50:51 And 9 for Mara! 02:50:57 well, now that he can use his bow 02:51:04 !lg * cv=0.6 ikiller=mara s=killer 02:51:04 10 games for * (cv=0.6 ikiller=mara): 5x Mara, 1x Gernony's illusion, 1x an illusion of Mara, 1x bmoore's illusion, 1x IamThem's illusion, 1x Gogmagog's illusion 02:51:06 !lg * cv=0.6 ikiller=mara s=killer src=cao 02:51:06 9 games for * (cv=0.6 ikiller=mara src=cao): 4x Mara, 1x Gernony's illusion, 1x an illusion of Mara, 1x bmoore's illusion, 1x IamThem's illusion, 1x Gogmagog's illusion 02:51:22 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:23 !lg * ikiller=mara s=killer 02:51:23 25 games for * (ikiller=mara): 9x Mara, 6x an illusion of Mara, 1x Gernony's illusion, 1x pingpong's illusion, 1x MUMMY's illusion, 1x N78291's illusion, 1x bmoore's illusion, 1x clouded's illusion, 1x myuzinn's illusion, 1x IamThem's illusion, 1x Baraton's illusion, 1x Gogmagog's illusion 02:51:59 Kills wihle mislead should count towards Mara as well. 04:05:52 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:27 -!- MaryPoppins is now known as Adeon 04:27:49 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:53 -!- Vlasow_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:25 Hello, development team. May i ask you some questions? I develop a game, and would like to use Crawl's setting, including monsters, gods and everything. May i? The game will be 100% open and free 05:03:27 to some extent, you can do what you want within the license terms -- not sure about the details there, especially regarding content 05:04:06 it might help if you said what kind of game you're going for 05:05:39 This is a multiplayer roguelike RPG where players travel in randomly generated world 05:06:38 Unlike Crawl, this will mostly be above the ground 05:06:39 Heh, speaking of, there's a pretty neat game called Desktop Dungeons inspired by Crawl to some extent. Certainly not the entire setting or anything, but there is a magic-hating god called Taurog and an undead-hating god known as 'The Glowing Guardian' :) 05:09:42 In the license i havn't found anything about new game based on Crawl, so, may i base on your world? 05:10:25 it's hard to tell such things from the licence agreements; the licence agreement covers code, whereas stealing the setting would be more of a trademark/design patent issue 05:10:36 Vlasow_: Hi! That's an interesting idea. 05:10:40 and open source projects tend not to deal with those so much 05:10:45 "borrowing" sounds nicer :P 05:11:24 (although, pretty much all remotely major roguelikes freely share ideas from each other, it seems; there's a reason you can do reasonably well at Crawl with no information, even on the controls, other than a thorough understanding of NetHack) 05:12:11 Vlasow_: So many people have contributed to the game over the years, that it's difficult to speak for their behalf.. 05:12:13 ais: Copyright to be more accurate; game mechanics could be patented (for a hell of a fee), or specific logos, taglines, etc. could be trademarked (e.g. 'Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup') 05:13:06 Twinge: hmm... you have to actually copy something in order to violate copyright 05:13:10 Vlasow_: Out of curiosity, what makes Crawl's world an interesting setting for you? Mostly, it is pretty standard fantasy RPG world, heavily borrowing from the usual sources (Tolkien, D&D, mythology) 05:13:19 And the other reason you can do okay at Crawl with no information is that Crawl isn't designed to be a 'sucks because you didn't know that' sort of rogue-like, as Nethack and ADOM are =) 05:13:23 certainly, I think things like the names of gods could be trademarked, although you probably wouldn't want to 05:13:52 Twinge: have you actually played it? Crawl is much more likely to kill you arbitrarily because you made a mistake than, say, NetHack is 05:14:07 or, if you like, screwing up in NetHack is normally recoverable, doing so in Crawl is less likely to be 05:14:10 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:32 and not knowing, say, how to deal with ogres is pretty fatal early on 05:14:37 Because you made a mistake, sure -- but far, far less likely to kill you because you couldn't have possibly known such-and-such and the only way to find out is a spoiler or dying to it 05:14:56 Twinge: I'd say pretty much every single monster in Crawl falls under the second category 05:15:06 in terms of things like its dangerousness to an unspoilt character 05:15:14 Strongly disagree. 05:15:36 in fact, IIRC someone in here told me a while back that that was deliberate, which makes sense 05:15:44 Crawl is far, far more newbie-friendly than ADOM; there is so much that is given to you comparatively. 05:15:45 I will definitely make reference on Crawl, if i use some of your features. What makes crawl world interesting for me, is that i already know it pretty well and it seems that some things may be more developed, like the world's history and everything 05:15:53 one of the things I dislike about Crawl is the way that monsters can sit there doing nothing for 30 turns and then one-shot you 05:16:18 (this has actually happened; it was a player ghost, so there were a lot of warning signs, but a spoiled player needn't necessarily know about those) 05:16:23 For example, corpses are color-coded; in ADOM, every corpse does something different and you mostly figure out by trying to eat them and seeing what happens 05:16:36 Vlasow_, one of the things I like about crawl is how it completely lacks a backstory. 05:16:40 world history? 05:16:45 Vlasow_: Yeah, there is definitely a lot of blank space to fill in! 05:17:17 Twinge: oh, I was talking about actual combat, rather than item use 05:17:26 bhaak: above the ground world's history :) 05:17:35 Crawl's almost unique among large PC roguelikes in that use-testing items tends not to be instantly fatal, which is rather user-friendly 05:18:21 Vlasow_: Having vision how to fill those blank spots, inspired by the game, I can see how it can be inspiring. 05:18:30 Yes. And things are generally a bit more intuitive. (Though I still think the inventory system is cearly inferior to ADOM's) 05:18:55 ADOM's requires more keypresses, doesn't it. :) 05:19:04 Twinge: do you mean in terms of interface or gameplay, there? (I don't actually know ADOM's system, but I'm interested) 05:19:22 Kesk: Not for me, because half the time I STILL press the wrong key of W/w/R/T/P 05:19:29 Twinge: Hehe :) 05:20:08 The way I play I don't really care either way, but I'd still say both are legit approaches. 05:20:14 the W/P thing is one of the things that I hear moderately-experienced Crawl and NetHack players complain about most, actually 05:20:18 Interface. i brings up your inventory with equipped items in all slots, and you can simply select a slot to change it out. One key instead of 5+ 05:20:55 Twinge: I've been thinking about NetHack interface recently, actually, and about how to combine keys properly 05:21:19 I was planning to use Q as an arbitrary-slot-changer, reserving the existing keys for shortcuts for changing keys 05:21:22 Crawl has a lot of situational switching, where having each item-wearing separately helps. The way only applicable items are displayed helps cognitively. 05:21:55 (Having both might be nice, such as accessing inventory slots from the % screen.) 05:22:05 I often press the wrong one of T and R 05:22:08 very damned often, too 05:22:13 Keskitalo: hmm... standard play in NetHack is to use i to see which item to use, and then W to actually wear it, rather than using W? (the equivalent of Crawl's W) 05:22:17 Kesk: That isn't any different. Press i, press whatever key corresponds to 'necklace slot', and only necklaces will show up on screen. 05:22:22 I tend to rely on P's ability to automatically swap things 05:22:23 maybe that's to do with how the keystrokes work 05:22:34 Twinge: Additional keypress! 05:23:09 Kesk: 3 instead of 2, and you have to memorize and effectively use 6 different keys instead of only 1. 05:23:09 there are loads of free keys anyway, so long as you don't go down the NetHack route of having separate keys for more or less everything 05:23:20 ais523: hmm? i W sounds stupid to me, when you can do W? 05:23:22 I don't see why you can't have both systems 05:23:34 bhaak: because you press i absentmindedly while waiting what to do 05:23:53 several tiles ports actually just leave the inventory open permanently; I'd rather like to get tty to do that some time (given a sufficiently large window) 05:24:09 ais523: huh? you don't "wait" you "think" 05:24:17 Both would be fine if implemented well. Hell, this was the first thing I posted on mantis IIRC, should still be open :P 05:24:19 err, thinko 05:24:39 in Crawl, you press i and it fills the whole screen really obtrusively 05:24:50 And continued play hasn't made it appear any better to me. I still think Crawl's current equipment management is unintuative and clunky. 05:25:02 in NetHack, it doesn't do that in the early game (although it does once your inventory starts filling up, unless you have a large screen; that's one of the reasons /why/ people play NetHack with large screens) 05:25:49 my Crawl play actually suffers from this; I hardly ever use items, and die frequently as a result 05:25:54 Twinge: Have you played tiles btw? The inventory is visible in the lower right screen, and you can wear/wield/remove worn items with a mouse click. 05:25:57 but in crawl I tend to press i less often than in nethack 05:25:59 ofc that's my fault, but it's interesting how the interface can shape gameplay 05:26:05 Kesk: I have not. 05:26:07 bhaak: exactly, I'm trying to explain why 05:26:15 It's pretty nice. :) 05:26:54 Coming from ADOM I was most comfortable sticking with ASCII 05:27:08 last time I used tiles, it got really jumbly because the mouse wasn't expressive enough to do everything, and that made me want to use the keyboard for everything 05:27:12 then, the mouse pointer started getting in the way 05:27:23 I'd still use tiles, I think, were it not for ttyrec/termrec 05:27:41 which is just a killer feature for tty from my point of view 05:28:36 ais523: Yeah, not being able to do everything with the mouse (yes/no prompts for instance) is a major construction site. It came up a lot in the UP report too. 05:28:46 Hooray for the new starting screens! 05:28:48 I best be heading to bed now at any rate, feel free to dredge up my old mantis post about the WwRTPi madness ;) 05:28:55 Twinge: Cheers! 05:28:57 Keskitalo: has the issue where they cut off in tty been fixed yet? 05:29:11 my guess is that I just compiled a bad revision 05:29:17 I'll try rebuilding, and report it if it still happens 05:29:20 ais523: I have no idea. 05:29:29 ais523: Thanks. 05:29:37 The messages were still cutting off in the most recent trunk version posted on cdo, but that was from 5 days ago, it hasn't been updated recently 05:29:56 maybe it'll be one of those bugs that's so obvious that nobody thinks to report it 05:29:59 that is just crawl's way of tellign you that you don't need any backstory :) 05:30:23 bhaak: not even as much as "Moloch stole from Marduk"? 05:30:48 ais523: not even as much as "you are a $foo" 05:31:11 bhaak: the whole single-paragraph backstory turned out to be really useful for TAEB development 05:31:28 it's what it uses to detect if the options have been set correctly for it or not 05:31:29 Argh, I wonder if hell effects angering your DG was fixed already.. 05:31:36 because it's really obvious to check on 05:33:41 Didn't see it in the commits I didn't read yet.. 05:36:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:08 -!- Vlasow_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:02:08 Keskitalo: now the compile has finally finished, it seems that the prompts still cut off 06:02:10 I'll file a bug 06:06:53 Some character descriptions on the character select page are cut off (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1389) by ais523 06:29:56 Where is the tiles code for drawing the inventory screen? 06:32:01 InventoryMenu 06:32:03 or something 06:32:06 in menu.cc 06:32:16 or invent.cc if you mean the 'i' screen 06:32:23 yeah that 06:32:25 ty 06:32:26 :D 07:40:55 ais523: Agh, I didn't get what you meant - that's a known issue :) 07:41:04 ah, ok 07:41:11 well, it's in the bug tracker now 07:41:18 probably better there than in people's heads 07:41:54 I think it was there already, but might not have been.. 07:42:15 I couldn't find it on the first page or so of the bug tracker, and don't remember it having been reported earlier 07:51:22 -!- Vandal has quit [] 07:54:25 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:35 03dolorous * r262d9f693fc0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Remove unneeded blank lines. 08:28:58 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:49:08 03dolorous * re391d8186c9f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Add another Crazy Yiuf quote. 08:58:47 -!- ortoslon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:33 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:22 Your hungry ghost says, "Never gonna let you down." 09:26:27 isn't this orc speak? 09:27:20 Yes. 09:27:23 Broken. 09:27:42 I was wondering why my ghosts were being so talkative :) 09:32:41 woah, that's mean 09:32:53 internet memes 09:33:01 I dislike it myself. 09:34:25 .oO(although you get rickrolled when login and play with the test account on un.nethack.nu) 09:34:43 Crazy Yiuf is cool, though :) 09:36:19 how do you rickroll someone over telnet anyway? 09:36:36 try it :) 09:37:13 I'm at work 09:37:22 * due snorts. 09:38:08 bhaak: test account? 09:38:17 "test", "tst". 09:38:45 Connected to un.nethack.nu. 09:38:45 Escape character is '^]'. 09:38:45 Bad option line: "Never gonna give you up," 09:39:36 yes :) 09:42:53 ais523: why would you want to rickroll someone over telnet? 09:43:01 pineapple: I have no idea, ask bhaak 09:43:08 i'd rahter rickroll them with obfuscated c 09:43:17 or in brainfuck 09:44:24 that reminds me of a great poster i saw for a new bond film 09:44:31 why would you want to rickroll anybody? 09:44:40 because you're a misanthropic bastard 09:44:47 Harsh! 09:44:51 G'night folk. 09:44:56 ++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>>++++++.>-------.+++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++.>----.>----.<<++.++++++++.-.>----.<<+++++++++++++.>>>.<-------.++.+++++++++++++.<<++++.>>>.<+++.<+.>----.>.<.<+.>>++++++++++++.------------.<<--.---------.>+.<.>----.>.<<<++.>>---.<<+++++++..>----.-----------------------------------------------------------------.<--.-------.>>+++++.<.>+++++.----------.++++++.<.<-.+++++++++++.++++++++.------- 09:45:12 It's like morse code for dummies. 09:46:14 ah, brainfuck 09:46:58 I'm a #esoteric denizen, of course I can produce a BF rickroll in less than 2 minutes 09:47:41 I meet the inventor of bf once 09:47:53 hmm, more than I have 09:48:03 did he realise how profound his discovery was? 09:48:14 also, couldn't he have given it a more work-friendly name? 09:48:29 I think he was a bit ashamed that he didn't think enough about it when inventing 09:48:39 and that he didn't properly specify it 09:48:53 but who whould have thought how it would develop? 10:19:12 would it be in character to think that someone who was just granted access to a sourceforge hosted subversion repository might have to wait a while for that to actually take effect 10:22:22 it's sourceforge, it's probably going to be clunky and not work properly 10:22:49 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:09 Siber: wrong channel, try #sourceforge, they know more about it :) 10:24:29 fair enough. On both. 10:25:03 ais523: although trac got faster after their last downtime, at least for Europe 10:27:30 03dolorous * r9ea063afbb74 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h mutation.h output.cc): Implement Mantis 1384. 10:38:32 -!- Smee has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:24 03dolorous * rf6d3f51ab8e5 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Simplify. 10:51:06 anyone feel like grepping the changelog for "Simplify" ? 10:51:40 been there, done that 10:54:15 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:19 hm.. 10:55:51 I wonder, would it be better, if scroll of acquirement only did the 'This is the scroll of acquirement!' thing when not identified before? 10:56:40 a scroll* 10:56:53 aka not using it up? 10:57:55 Zaba: i think it's best if it's left there 10:58:00 no 10:58:11 I'm talking about just the message 10:58:23 and the --more--, or whatever the prompts looks like these days 11:01:35 03dolorous * rbb40c239cba0 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Add assertion to make sure that no mutation is left out of "%". 11:01:35 so if it's identified, it jumps straight to the acquirement prompt 11:01:35 Zaba: i'd say print the message at all times, but only more the first time 11:01:35 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:02:09 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:09 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot 11:07:14 CDO went down? 11:07:36 03dolorous * re8538f551a49 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Add spacing fix. 11:16:00 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:18 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:31 kinda network hickup there.. 11:22:47 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:46 03dolorous * r48f4e9825740 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spells2.cc spells3.cc): Fix off-by-one error in summoning power for imps/ugly things. 11:50:12 -!- Smee has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:55 Am I supposed to be able to create 2 snakes from 1 arrow? (Sticks to Snakes) 12:02:01 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:47 oh, i noticed that too, i was wondering 12:03:56 forgot to mention it 12:04:03 I recall that has come up before.. it would be an interface nuisance if that last arrow only produced one (you would drop the one arrow and start with the next pile) 12:04:23 OTOH, theoretically you can now optimize your arrow usage by dropping all but one arrow in the pile, and pick them up one-by-one 12:06:56 I think minor interface nuisance wins out over scumming and not making sense in this case. It's a lot less bad than it used to be, where your new unIDed pile wouldn't merge, etc. 12:08:31 Is it just me, or when a level has a shop, does seem significantly more likely for at least one other shop (if not 3-4) to be on the same level? 12:08:35 Oh yeah, that has changed since it last came up, and it helps a lot. I'm fine with either. 12:08:53 Cryp71c: Yeah, they tend to cluster. 12:09:17 Its awesome, but seems to result in bazaar-esque d-levels 12:10:01 I'm a bit worried about S2S, it's a great spell but overshadowed in both Transmuter and Summoner builds (especially now with Call Imp at L2). 12:10:46 Maybe the odds of shops being alone should be increased a tad, and the overall shop odds increased slightly as well? (So the total number of shops would remain similar) 12:11:41 Cryp71c: I think they're fine, early shop levels encourage entering Mines early. 12:13:34 StS is a level 2 way for a summoner to poison, which is at least somewhat relevant. Requiring source material is a negative, of course, though wooden items aren't too uncommon 12:14:11 sticks to snake also scales quite well with power 12:15:22 Twinge: Yeah, I've used it myself quite a bit, but summon scorpions supercedes it quickly. Stronger snakes are nice, though. 12:16:14 In my current DSSu game I didn't really bother lugging components around.. not sure if I ended up casting the spell much at all. 12:16:36 it's not like you have the STR to lug around excess arrows... 12:16:43 even with permaflight 12:16:50 Oh yeah, that's changed lately. :D 12:17:35 That might have been it. 12:18:11 Ah, the addition of Canines to the Summoner book has also changed, that's probably bigger than the Imps level reduction. 12:19:11 And no changes to Sticks to Snakes itself have occurred! 12:22:16 Hmm. Call Canine starts with a jackal and it is level 3. 12:29:17 I'm not saying it's useless, but I'm saying these changes have contributed to me (a fan of the spell) to not bother with it. It's niche is quite small. 12:29:39 (Of course, this is just one game.) 12:31:25 sticks to snakes is more useful for transmuters, i think 12:32:34 Kesk: Nod. Does it ever get really high, e.g. gray snakes? I don't remember seeing it go past brown but I haven't used it a lot 12:32:53 Twinge: It has a long power curve, it can indeed go up to anacondas. 12:32:54 Twinge: yes, but you have to be wielding giant clubs and stuff like that 12:33:00 so only for large races 12:33:05 Ah. 12:33:29 you can get water moccasins and stuff at least with normal stuff 12:33:34 not sure what the cap there is 12:33:56 doy: Is there a cap like that? I only recall that the power starts with water moccassins when you use the giant clubs, though I might've read it wrong. 12:34:18 Keskitalo: no idea, i've never actually looked that much into it 12:35:47 actually the only time I've really used sticks to snakes was a Wiz[Ice], to deal with icebeasts and zombies etc 12:36:17 I get at least vipers and black mambas in wizmode (skills at 27 and using spears) 12:36:48 got an anaconda with a halberd but with realistical spellpower you won't get those except very rarely or late game 12:36:50 Maybe higher level snakes could be possible with smaller stuff (if it isn't currently - up to vipers anyway), but it would require good materials (possibly poisoned arrows, nicely enchanted regular weapons, etc.) and high skill... specifically, I'm thinking it'd cap out later than e.g. Canines but take longer to get there (you'd get war dogs before vipers were at all reliable)? Just brainstorming, not sure on the balance of it without looki 12:37:46 Currently arrows are up to water moccassins, and that only with poisoned arrows IIRC. 12:38:26 learndb says it can already go up to gray with enough power 12:38:29 ??sticks to snakes 12:38:29 sticks to snakes[1/3]: Turns wielded arrows (multiple snakes) and other wooden weapons (one snake) into various snakes. Higher spell power gives nastier snakes: arrows give up to brown snakes, poisoned ones have better odds; with sufficient power, other weapons can go up to grey snakes. A giant club guarantees at least a brown snake. Cursed weapons yield hostile snakes. 12:38:30 I do think S2S caps later than Canines.. much thanks to the dual-schooling, probably. 12:38:33 again, not sure that this is really necessarily comparable, since s2s is a tmut spell and canines is summ 12:38:56 StS is Summon/Transmute 12:39:01 And in the Summoning book 12:39:09 it's in the summoning book? 12:39:33 It is as of an Apirl 13th build anyway. Dunno if it was just changed 12:41:23 Yeah, it used to be the only L2 spell until Call Imp went 3->2 just recently. 12:42:19 Could be taken out and put into Summonings (as it lost Canines), which of course would marginalize it more. :) 12:42:41 should be a pure tmut spell imo 12:42:46 i agree 12:43:00 That might work well too.. 12:43:11 i'd actually been thinking that it was 12:43:16 That would also provide an avenue for victory dancing transmut early 12:43:20 since presently, you can't -_- 12:43:28 Hehe :) 12:43:54 it'd be amusing if you could use it at range to shut down centaurs by turning their carried arrows into the small snakes ;p 12:44:43 s/you/Xom 12:44:51 yeah, that would be an appropriate xom action 12:44:52 heh 12:45:11 xom already has snakes to sticks, i don't think we need two xom effects based on that 12:45:14 (: 12:45:51 hmm, is there anyway to display the current branch in the terminal bash when working in a git directory? 12:45:53 I'm secretly harbouring thoughts that Snakes to Sticks should a rare, artefact book only Transmutation spell. 12:46:06 Cryp71c: 'git branch' 12:46:07 doy: IMO Xom effects should be primarily only limited by people willing to code them, and the default line of thought should be 'more is better'. (Obviously this doesn't apply to the game in general, but it makes sense for Xom) 12:46:21 doy, I got used to msysgit, which displays it on the bash line :P 12:46:30 Cryp71c: well, you can do that too 12:46:36 doy, how? 12:47:25 Twinge, I agree, there should be so many xom effects that you can't predict them at all. Presently, you can guess what's going to happen, given an idea of the available options from your current piety level and the tension. 12:48:25 Cryp71c: http://github.com/doy/conf/blob/master/bashrc#L172 is how i do it, although i think there's something built into bash too 12:50:00 that also gives a lot more information, like the number of unpushed commits, whether you're in the middle of a merge/rebase/bisect, whether files are modified or staged, etc 12:50:12 If i could code C++ better I'd probably work on several Xom effects myself, but I remember being comletely lost last time I tried to wrap my head around it ;o I'll stick with complicated balance tweaks for now :D 12:50:22 doy, lol I see that it starts on 172, where does that codeblock end? :P 12:50:37 Cryp71c: 302, although not all of it is relevant 12:51:00 that also adds the exit code of the last command to the prompt, and includes support for darcs and svn 12:51:31 Twinge, I <3 c++, particularly because if you want to know anything about the language theres lots of documentation / tutorials online, tons of people know it, so #c++ is typically full of useful people, and its syntax is fairly sensical, there's nothing that you think should work, but doesn.t 12:51:42 haha, really? 12:51:49 you obviously don't know much c++ d: 12:52:03 lol, its oodles better than many other languages I've worked with. 12:52:19 The only c-family or c-family derived language I like more than it is c# 12:52:38 Cryp71c: Well, it took me several hours to change 'The dead are walking!' to 'The dead are swimming and flying!'/etc. (as apporpriate), with help ;/ 12:54:56 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:17 :P It takes time, before I was familiar enough with mutation stuff to feel somewhat comfortable jumping into it, I did some Xom stuff (Snakes to sticks) and bug fixed 12:57:24 s/fixed/fixes 12:57:40 plus I bothered doy,due,sorear, and by enough that I'm sure they'll forever hate me 12:57:49 (I continue to do so) 12:58:02 Twinge: I love that change! :) 12:58:52 Kesk: Makes me want to start up a Necromancer so I can see it in action ;) 12:59:57 To be fair the way it was coded was weird with how Animated Dead and Animated Skeleton overlapped, so it was unusually awkward to change, but it was still a long process. 13:02:07 I'm more skilled at balance than programming anyway, so unless I get more free time on my hands I probably won't delve TOO heavily into coding, at least right now 13:05:31 Twinge: I played an Yrdy worshipper. 13:06:31 That works too 13:22:04 Have you guys any word on the icy envelope mutation? It seems a concensus on its operation can't be reached. 13:26:05 Immediate statdeath is gone now, yeah? 13:26:58 is it? 13:27:13 i know that there was talk to "anything that would take you to 0 takes you to 1 first" 13:27:23 but i don't know if it happened 13:28:52 Sheesh, I'd forgotten how rude and dismissive some open source developers can be. I guess that's what I get for entering a channel _other than_ ##crawl-dev... 13:29:03 pineapple, I'm pretty sure its implemented 13:29:10 neunon: hmm? 13:29:21 * fc0b40f... Remove stat insta-death. 13:29:34 and 13:29:35 * 4bb6193... Paralysis when stat reaches zero. 13:29:53 I entered another channel here on Freenode, and asked about submitting patches for their project (every project's different on this matter). And they were quite dismissive and rude. :< 13:29:58 hmm... so you only die now by other stuff killing you? 13:30:10 pineapple: no, it's like starving 13:30:37 oh, temporary paralysis a few times, then you die? 13:30:49 there are other effects 13:31:08 sorear, I ran across this FR with a patch on it from you, do you recall if thats a full implementation of the suggested change? 13:31:09 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=288 13:31:33 pineapple, yeah it depends on what stat is <= 0 13:31:43 interesting 13:31:48 Or at least that's what was being discussed last I heard on the matter. 13:31:52 is 8 still recommended as minimum for a stat? 13:32:18 pineapple: 7 is fine if you're not planning on doing tomb, really 13:34:01 well SpBe starts with 8 int, so 13:34:42 :-) 13:39:58 8 for strength probably 13:40:08 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:40:14 unles you plan on relying +Str gear and heavy use of flight 13:41:25 hah 13:41:31 i'm talking early game here 13:41:49 !lg * char=spbe max=sc 13:41:52 731. Jaeger the Eviscerator (L27 SpBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2009-01-18, with 1717867 points after 120318 turns and 11:26:54. 13:41:53 carryweight will become an issue before lair 13:42:09 aaaah, i see someone finally won with it 13:42:35 felirx: my other issues are finding a weapon, and finding food 13:43:07 stats won't help with that :) 13:43:09 !lg * char=spbe max=sc x=str 13:43:09 731. [str=17] Jaeger the Eviscerator (L27 SpBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2009-01-18, with 1717867 points after 120318 turns and 11:26:54. 13:43:17 i'm considering doing something crazy, a variant on what i did try a fair bit a while ago 13:43:47 SpCK of Xom, switch to Trog when i find the altar 13:44:29 (i used to do SpCK Lugonu, renounce just before leaving the abyss) 13:45:21 You do start with a better weapon as a CK of Xom 13:45:39 The only time I tried insta-renouncing Xom, he seemed nicer than the previous time I stuck with him ;O 13:45:57 you start with a better weapon as CK 13:46:10 a _short sword_ with bonuses 13:46:55 It's better with Xom than other CKs 13:47:16 Or he gives you an armor bonus and the others don't, I forget exactly 13:47:16 Lugonu wrath is effectively game over if you get abyssed 14:04:24 -!- shockwave has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:20 Typos in descriptions (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1390) by maiermrk 14:06:40 -!- shockwave has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:39 How do you give specific weapons to monsters hwne you create them in wizard? 14:13:26 -!- Smee has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:32 kobold ; short sword 14:20:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:23:33 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:20 doy, what about branded weapons? 14:28:52 kobold ; short sword ego:flaming 14:28:58 thanks 14:30:15 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:35:02 gah this is aggrivating. Flame, frost, and electricution are brands which double-trigger the passive_freeze mutation, but as near as I can tell, inside ouch(...) (where the call to _passive_freeze() is done, there is no way to differentiate whether the ouch call came from an attack or the post-attack brand damage. 14:35:57 it's true, ouch is pretty limited like that 14:36:32 And agony..apparently. 14:36:42 er, pain* 14:37:47 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:55 -!- ortoslon1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:54 then out of ouch it shall come 14:43:32 does anyone know the proper yields for fulsome distillation? 14:43:57 ??learndb 14:43:57 learndb[1/1]: Try ??howtousethelearndb. A html page of learndb entries is at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html You can also access the learndb at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots 14:44:28 ??fulsome distillation[5] 14:44:28 fulsome distillation[5/5]: L1 tmut/nec in {book of Changes}. Turns a corpse into a potion. Contaminated -> confusion; poison -> poison; clean -> water; mutagenic -> mutation; rot -> decay. Enemies with strong poison attacks turn into strong poison, and ogres and giants turn into degeneration. 14:44:45 I think that's correct for 0.6 14:45:11 ok, then 2 and 3 need removing 14:45:14 and 4 14:45:26 And most of 1 14:45:28 Hehe 14:45:43 Verify it first, but it sounds correct 14:47:38 i aded the note to 1 about incorrect for 0.6 14:47:48 ??evaporate 14:47:48 evaporate[1/4]: Converts a potion into a cloud of nastiness. Cleverly banking your potion throws into walls may allow you to still catch a monster in its cloud, should your throw miss (but this isn't necessary; see [4]). See [2] and [3] for what each type of potion does. 14:47:55 ??evaporate[2] 14:47:55 evaporate[2/4]: * means duration boost, chances even unless noted as #x. - (Strong*) poison: poison. Degeneration(*): poison/miasma. Decay(*): miasma. Paralysis(*)/slowing/confusion: mephitic cloud. Water/porridge: steam. (Coagulated) blood: mephitic/flame/steam. Berserk: flame/steam. Mutation/gain X/exp/magic (why?!): flame/freezing/poison/miasma/random(2x). 14:48:31 ??evaporate[3] 14:48:31 evaporate[3/4]: All other potions: flame/mephitic/freezing/poison/random/colored_fog(3x)/steam(5x). "Random" means that each square of the cloud is randomly chosen from all(?) of the game's cloud types. 14:48:52 steam can be nasty, right? 14:48:57 ??steam 14:48:57 steam[1/1]: Does a token amount of damage and (more importantly) obscures LOS. Used by smoke demons, steam dragons and pale draconians, and can be created by evaporating water. 14:49:29 ok... looks like i just need to find contaminated monsters 14:50:16 ??miasma 14:50:17 miasma[1/1]: Miasma now checks rotting resistance, rather than negative energy resistance. Sucks to be a TSO worshipper! Poisons, slows and gives a 50% chance of rotting per turn. 14:50:27 ow! 14:52:32 now I had a hobgoblin spawn in a vault with no_monster_gen O_o 14:58:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:46 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:29 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:02 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:42 morning all 15:21:09 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:21:43 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 15:27:51 03kilobyte * rd742ad203e23 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: A typo. 15:27:52 03kilobyte * r08ad3120a16c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/lua/autofight.lua l_item.cc): Let autofight use weapons of reaching. 15:47:02 hrm, on this new setup vim doesn't auto-organize brackets for me, nor does it auto-strip trailing whitespace.. 15:48:47 http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/crawl-tutorial.zip windows build with the tutorial if anyone wants to play around (and can, it being Win :)) 15:49:45 Cryp71c: Clearly you should be using a less demonic text editor, then 15:51:46 felirx: There's always Wine if you're an infidel? 15:57:21 Twinge, vim is awesome, can have like 4 windows open at once easily 16:06:39 -!- Smee has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:17 Mu_: I think I got your new Vestibule earlier; very nice, much more thematic than earlier. (aka much less bland :)) 16:20:29 :)) 16:22:01 Keskitalo: did it seem to generate too many enemies to you, or did you not notice any difference from usual? 16:25:52 I like it too 16:26:07 it's smaller so there does feel like more guys yeah 16:26:18 and all the demons mixed in too 16:28:02 i was thinking of turning off the regular monster generation and specifying the spawns in the vault description because sometimes it seemed ridiculous 16:29:10 plus there're enough giants and yaktaurs and things elsewhere :3 16:29:52 vestibule just needs its own monster set 16:30:10 Mu_: I think the amount of enemies was just fine - did you use patrolling tags for each entry? I had summons, which seemed to draw out the defenders one-by-one. 16:30:21 I don't know if patrolling would help with that.. 16:31:07 agreed on the giants and yaktaurs :) 16:31:31 it's mostly the amount of stuff that's in your LOS when you enter, usually it's just a couple of yaktaurs and stone giant or storm dragon, but a few games ago I had two packs of 'taurs and like 12 deep trolls right there 16:31:42 nothing's patrolling. it wasn't the demons that made it seemed busy, just that it appeared to produce way too many trolls and yaktaurs and things 16:31:53 haha 16:32:31 particularly if you get the version with walls instead of floors it seems kind of weird 16:32:59 i wasn't sure if it had a set number of enemies it had to generate and the subvaults were forcing them all to condense in the middle or something :p 16:44:23 Anyone have any "I will die" issues with me closing #243? Its quite old but has had little discussion, I'd like to close it :P 16:46:02 why do you want to close it? 16:46:28 i think it should be addressed in some way 16:49:23 really? I can't say that I find the mp cap to be problematic presently 16:50:17 well, it's problematic at least in that it's not obvious what's happening 16:50:35 you put on a ring that's autoinscribed with {+9MP} and you only gain 4 - that's confusing 16:52:01 doy, I suppose so, It had seemed fairly obvious what was happening when I was only gaining half the mana I should've, though we can't expect players to necessarily make that connection. 16:52:07 s/obvious/obvious to me 17:04:57 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:30 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:39 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:52 03rburnham * r0da65e8411c4 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation-data.h: Change repulsion field mutation loss text 17:38:45 03burnhamrobertp * r726ed80624da 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc melee_attack.h ouch.cc): Move passive_freeze effects into fight.cc 17:43:28 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:24 03dolorous * r35f447fed5b0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (6 files): Apply maiermrk's patch in Mantis 1390: Fix documentation typos. 17:55:27 03dolorous * r9fbc5fde6ac3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (ability.txt backgrounds.txt features.txt gods.txt spells.txt): Add spacing fixes to documentation. 18:10:31 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:40 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:37 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:46 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:19 The monks wizlab is a hellhole as a caster with no channel items 19:51:19 :) 19:52:19 -!- pointless_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:00 got me a book of enchantments from there so thanks! 19:54:43 No potion of experience? 19:57:29 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:58:30 nothing else o the floor 19:59:21 felirx: :) You missed the secret room, then. 19:59:33 meh 19:59:39 and I even looked at the .des file ;D 20:01:00 base levels I don't have too much use with but the manual of fighting would have been handy later 20:18:05 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:43 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:33 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:51 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:36 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:19 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:45 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:09 -!- Smee has quit [Client Quit] 22:39:09 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 22:47:47 neunon: good news: svn clang is willing to parse Crawl. Bad news: it's slower than g++. (yes I used --enable-optimize) 22:52:06 correction: one file 22:52:19 now trying make, this makefile is /completely ignoring/ my CC override 23:00:47 from my information, clang isn't mature enough yet to be successful with c++ 23:01:25 that changed in the last ~year 23:01:44 it doesn't handle /all/ the dark corners but... it's self hosting now 23:02:13 can it compile gcc yet? 23:02:21 gcc is written in K&R C 23:02:29 aaaah 23:02:30 ok 23:02:41 it's designed to be buildable on systems with only "broken vendor compilers" 23:02:44 then self-hosting is probably the biggest hurdle 23:03:09 i.e. the AIXes of the world 23:03:36 hmm? 23:03:45 -!- Siber2 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:56 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:38 sorear: Is there way to detect if rendering quads is faster than drawing triangle strips? Like what sort of hardware optimizations are present? 23:13:06 At runtime, that is. Cause I remember you mentioning some sort of hardware optimization for rendering quads that i'd never heard of before. 23:13:54 check out the source of glxinfo, would probably be a good way to start 23:14:06 :D sweet 23:14:34 Cause my triangles branch has all vertex buffering happening on one place now 23:14:41 so I wanted to mess around with conditional optimizations. 23:15:12 3d hardware probably shouldn't care, but I'm not exactly an authority on hardware 3d pipes 23:15:55 however... in software, axis-aligned quads are a very easy case 23:21:52 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:00 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:05 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:16 Oh also, how can I make crawl generate some submerged tiles in wizard mode?