00:14:13 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:28 starting menu stabbity time 00:32:37 the current code is all over the place :( 00:33:40 -!- Spads has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:40 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:40 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:40 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:40 -!- mspang has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:40 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:41 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:41 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:42 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:42 -!- ahpla has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:43 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:43 -!- doy has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:43 -!- purge has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:43 -!- Cryp71c has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:44 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:44 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:44 -!- ivan has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:44 -!- Zao has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:45 -!- violetj has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:45 -!- phyphor has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:45 -!- Twinge has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:45 -!- Iainuki has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:46 -!- due has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:46 -!- felirx has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:46 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 00:35:39 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Zao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Iainuki has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- mspang has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- violetj has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:39 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:26 -!- Keskitalo has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:27 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:28 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:28 -!- ahpla has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:28 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:29 -!- doy has quit [*.net *.split] 00:36:29 -!- purge has quit [*.net *.split] 00:37:04 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:04 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:20 mmm, now I need to pack the player doll tile from player_save_info 02:08:53 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:06 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:14 -!- ahpla_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:44 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:57 -!- ahpla_ is now known as ahpla 03:05:01 -!- ahpla has quit [Changing host] 03:05:01 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:36 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:19 -!- Spads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:04 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:25 -!- sorear has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:09:11 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:32 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:32:48 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:07 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:06:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:56 03kilobyte * r9979d60303e9 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Make phaseshift work even when paralyzed. 05:18:00 03kilobyte * rf246905e095b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Update LOS for summon elemental, disintegration, firing wax/trees, forest fires. 05:18:01 03kilobyte * r4687187c5479 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Make kraken's tentacles follow the head's attitude. 05:18:04 03kilobyte * r77266bd31db0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): A function called from every single place a monster's attitude changes. 05:34:29 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:48:17 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:28 any ideas on how to pack the savegame player doll to tiles the easiest? 06:07:52 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:06 http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/startup_menu_prototype.png 06:22:24 the whole "enter your name" thing, has already been proposed to completely remove it from the start and put it at the back? 06:22:43 maybe with an autogenerated cute name proposal? 06:23:48 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:menu 06:24:23 from the menu point of view, it would make it a notch easier 06:26:11 mouse also works now 06:26:29 just missing the actual functionality that happens when you hit enter / mb1 06:27:16 bhaak: autogenerated name: NOOOOOO! Definitely we should use the player's login name if there's no remembered previous one. 06:28:15 kilobyte: of course an autogenerated name that can be changed :-) 06:28:54 not everybody likes to be drolly fumblefeet, the troll berserker 06:30:40 but I have the impression that the "enter your name" + explanation takes to much screen estate for what it's worth 06:33:01 -!- zenna has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:22 by some ifdef trickery, i can easily take advantage of all the tiles screen estate 06:36:41 it's just rendering it right now with the 80x24 console constraints 06:40:18 going to add a clickable scroll bar to the saves part a bit later, that should get some yells! 06:40:44 hehe 06:53:03 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:54:55 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:47 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:26:30 I return 07:29:48 kilobyte: Around? 07:50:04 tiles using (0,0) as start and console (1,1) is kinda annoying 07:52:35 fix it! 07:53:44 busy doing something more productive! 07:54:33 don't fix it! 08:03:08 what's the right way to open help? 08:03:16 I don't know? 08:03:47 list_commands does something but 08:22:04 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:13 due: meow? 08:35:14 03kilobyte * r1a82ae8600a3 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: Fix "you's poison". 08:35:23 03kilobyte * re081dc4d6f5b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-mis.cc spl-mis.h): Keep the poison miscast's attribution. 08:35:25 03kilobyte * r6145fec7e97c 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: Fix reversed logic that caused either bare "poison" or "poisoned by ". 08:35:29 03kilobyte * r9643d696046b 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Make wizard x, work on the player too. 08:35:33 felirx: I like the screen! But have you seen the old console's bar? I liked that one very much =) 08:35:54 old console bar? 08:36:36 felirx: yes, if you save some games in 0.5 ASCII and start a local game... you can select the saved game with a scrollbar. 08:37:09 I have a scrollbar planned for MenuScroller 08:37:47 ahahaha 08:37:59 I started 0.5.2 tiles and started wondering why no load messages appear 08:41:00 -!- |eith| has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:46 I don't see anything different between 0.5, 0.5.2, 0.6 and 0.7 08:42:35 -!- Sealer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:42 Hello 08:43:03 Sealer: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php 08:43:21 thank you 08:44:50 felirx: well, the scrollbar is just inverted, right? 08:45:32 -!- |eith| is now known as eith 08:45:52 I originally planned to make it invert, just havent had time to make a new Highlighter class yet 08:46:16 so it uses the same as the bg/species menu one atm 08:46:52 felirx: ah, okay 08:47:21 bhaak: You have been modifying the Sacred Devteam's Gameplay. Bad boy! 08:47:44 dpeg: coming from you, that must be a compliment :) 08:48:11 bhaak: There have been complaints in rgrn, though :) 08:49:28 hey erisdiscordia has the elusive blue * napkin had some time ago 08:50:34 dpeg: complaints? 1 saying he missed those things when playing nethack lately, 1 asking a question and 1 suggesting more changes. not really complaints to me :) 08:51:03 bhaak: I know! 08:51:20 dpeg: but you must be careful. with greensnark and Napkin playing unnethack and johanna playing nethack-de and nlarn ... might be affecting the release of 0.7 :) 08:53:57 a pair of bug-ridden gloves (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1356) by Sealer 08:55:17 !tell greensnark erik got the elusive blue * / wizflagged game bug 08:55:18 syllogism: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 08:55:37 when is he coming back anyway :P 08:55:43 !seen greensnark 08:55:43 I last saw greensnark at Thu Apr 1 04:05:33 2010 UTC (1w 5d 9h 50m 10s ago) quitting with message Quit: leaving. 08:59:11 bhaak: yes, losing everyone to Nethack. 09:04:09 beh... a variant of Nethack that didn't even remove Elbereth; that makes it not worth even looking at 09:06:03 kilobyte: you're right! 09:06:35 I guess making variants of nethack is a roguelike game in itself. I mean, it requires masochism, it takes time and is apparently addictive, too... 09:07:02 my local build server builds unnethack also with --disable-elbereth :-P 09:07:03 and death is permanent 09:07:16 oh, yes, that. 09:07:22 * Spads ✁☹ 09:08:06 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:24 browsing the list of changes, I see they just took a random selection of patches, without any heed for balance 09:08:47 s/they/he 09:08:53 kilobyte: who'S "they" -- Spork or Un? 09:09:02 some, like that color alchemy thingy, can produce broken results if you're lucky enough 09:09:12 un 09:09:30 kilobyte: it's a cool idea, and you can balance it, but that's some effort 09:09:41 tihi :) 09:13:25 03dolorous * rd67042cf77e4 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Add spacing fix. 09:14:43 kilobyte: what's your opinion about spork? 09:15:12 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:03 is there a list of highlists from their changelog? 09:16:46 it's a loooong wall of text, and it's hard to find the most important changes without a careful reading 09:17:03 http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Sporkhack is more concise 09:17:21 I see that unlike Un, Spork actually tries to fix bugs, too 09:17:22 although from that you don't learn that e.g. the dragon armour has now passive attacks 09:18:45 huh? it's rather the other way round: "I don't want to fix vanilla bugs; that's the Dev Team's job." http://sporkhack.com/design_concept.html 09:21:05 "Dev Team"... 09:21:08 dpeg: what's your opinion on a real scrollbar to the side if there's more items that can be shown? 09:21:24 felirx: console or tiles? 09:21:25 Except, they're dead for what, ten years now? 09:22:01 maybe even both 09:22:05 they are alive, they just don't like to meddle with the mortals 09:22:22 bhaak: stupid nonsense, and you know it 09:22:54 felirx: scrollbar is good (and expected for tiles), not sure about console 09:23:41 there hasn't been a release in a while. Why do people need more evidence that even if the DevTeam is technically alive, they aren't interested in nethack a lot? 09:23:44 dpeg: they are alive, vanilla nethack is not alive 09:23:53 bhaak: they did some horrible decisions (organisational, not game design) and fucked it up. Even in limbo they suck. 09:24:27 my "they" is the vanilla NH's devteam, just to be sure :) 09:25:43 the worst decision: closed development 09:26:01 kilobyte: exactly. I'Ve written a small treatise on that matter. 09:26:03 03dolorous * re84ab6352d77 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Make a few functions static. 09:26:28 it works soo good for ADOM or DoomRL... with trivial bugs staying unfixed for years 09:27:37 dpeg: yes, but I think that they just aren't ready to give in and open up what ever the have. I don't blame them for that, human beings are like that. they have entrapped themselves into the ivory tower and can't get out. it's more sad than anything else 09:28:45 bhaak: yes. Like in the Amigahack story you told us, only worse and more sad. 09:29:03 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:30:28 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:53 kilobyte: do I sense a little bit of irony? roguelike development never meant to do "open development" and if you read some threads in rgrd it's quite astonishing what strange views some people have. adom, doomrl and nethack are just different because they are popular 09:33:03 nethack at least got the excuse that its development started before open source development was invented and that you can use the source 09:34:18 not all I need to figure out is how to actually start the different game modes or load a savefile and it should be about done bar bugs 09:36:40 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:36:44 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:55 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:dpeg 09:36:58 comments welcome 09:38:04 (that's my writeup on open source vs open development) 09:39:06 hehe, mantis has an automatism that makes OS an acronym of "Operating System" :) 09:39:34 true :) 09:39:52 This text was supposed to be an email to jpeg, but I'll get more feedback like this. 09:40:13 Going to sports in a minute, either add comments on the wiki or !tell/mail me. Thanks! 09:45:12 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:49 Morning. 09:52:24 Is there a way on github to setup a branch to auto-pull from another repo (eg, I have the master branch, its not getting any commits from me, but I'm having to manually pull / push it whenever updates are done in trunk)? 09:52:56 03dolorous * r6817b44f69b8 10/crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc: Comment fixes. 09:52:59 03dolorous * r6f6fee689289 10/crawl-ref/source/effects.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 10:02:19 uptade windows builds 10:03:01 dpeg: do other devs have similar pages? 10:03:17 nm i found them 10:03:20 'Evenin all. 10:09:21 miscoloured enemies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1357) by st 10:11:02 Napkin, Keskitalo: update windows builds plz 10:27:20 on the way, ortoslon 10:29:07 -!- Sealer has quit [] 10:38:52 03dolorous * rc1098e59ac1e 10/crawl-ref/source/spells3.cc: Fix apparent typo. 10:46:36 yay 10:48:05 -!- bhaak is now known as bhaak_shot 10:56:07 How should I set teh player name from main.cc? 10:57:41 or where on earth Should I stick these starting menu functions 11:16:46 -!- ahpla has quit [Quit: reboot] 11:17:58 how was tiles font handling changed in 0.7? crawl looks uglier now (wait, i'll get some screenshots) 11:20:54 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/old.PNG vs http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/new.PNG - windows xp with ClearType on, default tiles settings 11:27:57 ortoslon, could you report that in the tracker please? 11:29:05 yeah after i confirm that steven's freetype hinting change caused that and get better screenshots 11:29:21 looks to be as if the way hinting is done got changes 11:29:24 *changed 11:30:09 great :) 11:30:17 yeah, i think it was supposed to look better 11:30:30 but noone tested in on windows with cleartype :) 11:30:34 it's a matter of taste 11:30:47 windows' cleartype should not change anything 11:31:00 yeah, i turned it off and new is still uglier 11:31:19 have you tried turning off cleartype in windows? it should not change anything about how crawl draws it 11:31:25 okokok 11:31:29 you are too fast for me ;) 11:31:45 but did it actually change how crawl looks? 11:32:06 yes, cleartype affected fonts in crawl 11:32:13 oh, wow 11:32:24 that's weird 11:33:36 ...wait. or not 11:34:48 no it doesn't, my bad 11:36:25 ok, good :) it's only supposed to change the way fonts in applications linked against microsoft's libraries look 11:37:07 ah 11:37:22 cleartype gives me a headache, don't know how people can stand it 11:37:53 aliased fonts give me a headache, don't know how people stand it :) 11:38:02 (: 11:38:05 agreed with ortoslon ;) 11:38:11 i'm fine with regular hinting/antialiasing 11:38:19 but subpixel hinting is just awful 11:38:22 to me anyway 11:39:17 isn't it that windows either gives you unhinted and aliased fonts - or cleartype? 11:39:29 Napkin: yes 11:39:46 what's so awful about aliasing? 11:39:52 so.. windows user's don't have so much choice 11:40:03 Napkin: i prefer aliased fonts to cleartype 11:40:04 (: 11:40:20 yeah 11:40:25 Zaba: i don't think it's that bad, i use bitmap fonts for terminals 11:40:37 but hinting does make things like web pages look better 11:40:46 I also use aliased fonts in terminals 11:41:01 i actually prefer linux hinting to osx hinting 11:41:19 because on linux it actually attempts to put vertical/horizontal lines on pixels 11:41:20 what options does osx give you? 11:41:24 rather than between 11:41:25 Napkin: none 11:41:26 (: 11:41:29 lol 11:41:32 and terminals' more than a half of everything I do 11:41:36 or use. 11:41:51 Zaba: yeah, i'm pretty much either on a terminal or firefox 11:44:01 back 11:44:20 No comments on my text :( 11:44:30 dpeg: i like it 11:44:33 there 11:45:12 ortoslon: thanks :) 11:46:30 I plan to ask Jeff from POWDER and various other folks for comments, so as to make it less Crawl-centric. 11:46:37 confirmed: caused by f68fb20 (before: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/old.PNG after: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/new.PNG) 11:48:49 personally, both of those just look blurry 11:49:06 aren't there any better hinting methods we could use? 11:49:32 -!- ahpla has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:36 doy: are you viewing them at 100% resolution? 11:49:48 oh, hah 11:49:50 good call 11:49:51 (: 11:49:55 well, he modified ftoption.h 11:50:16 -/* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */ 11:50:16 +#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER 11:50:20 -#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING 11:50:20 +/* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING */ 11:50:43 the bytecode interpreter is typically miles better than the normal hinting 11:51:22 so he replace apple hinting with free hinting? 11:51:34 no, other way around 11:51:36 well - considering what we talked about above - i don't trust you, doy ;) 11:51:50 Napkin: no, normal hinting is awful to basically everybody 11:51:51 (: 11:52:01 but that's a long time ago 11:52:21 i think the new version looks a lot better on the smaller text 11:52:26 like in the message area 11:52:39 but i do agree that the old version looks better in like the hud and stuff 11:54:03 maybe we could just make the hud use bold 11:54:03 ? 11:54:09 that might help 11:54:14 ew bold 11:54:32 shrug, the problem is that it looks all spindly at larger font sizes 11:56:19 I rarely see tiles in action, but I also find their fonts to be on the bulimic side. I cannot see so well, I like my font big and well nourished. 11:56:58 i don't think we should just revert the change, because the message area fonts do look much better with the better hinting 11:57:49 What is this "hinting" everyone talks about? 11:58:44 dpeg: font antialiasing and kerning 11:58:53 and other things that make them look better 11:58:58 !coffee Ashenzari 11:58:59 * Henzell hands Ashenzari a cup of caf� au lait, brewed by the Serpent of Hell. 11:59:14 or worse hehe 11:59:56 font hinting (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1358) by ortoslon 12:02:21 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:00 i'll try other monospace fonts: dejavu sans mono bold, liberation mono, lucida console etc 12:05:16 does crawl use weird characters in tiles anywhere? 12:05:26 non-ascii i mean 12:09:10 doy: bold in stats area http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/boldstat.PNG 12:09:10 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:09:30 hmmm 12:09:34 not great, but not awful 12:09:52 to me, better than new but worse than old 12:10:01 yeah 12:10:08 ok i'll try liberation now 12:12:43 nah liberation mono looks even worse 12:13:20 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2781010/liberationstat.PNG 12:14:38 -!- bhaak_shot is now known as bhaak 12:14:45 bhaak: what happened? 12:15:07 dpeg: we're playing russian roulette in #nethack.de 12:15:17 I see 12:19:04 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:32 dpeg, I emailed you back yesterday, those UC ideas sound nice. 12:20:51 dpeg: you didn't mention Angband in your text. both OS and OD and a lot of code exchange between variants. one (the only?) example that you don't have to be afraid of forks 12:29:51 bhaak: hey, very good point. 12:30:11 I am highly unfamiliar with all roguelikes, except from what I sometimes hear here. 12:32:30 dpeg: Commenting on the text; DF is partially OS in a clever way (IMHO). Tarn has a couple of little "games" out (Kobold Cave and Battle Champs) that are open source and partialy share DF code; they have been purposefully used faciliate ports (Mac) and graphics code improvements for DF. 12:32:30 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:32:34 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:38 I wish Tarn would open up the interface side too. :) 12:33:32 Keskitalo: any idea why he doesn't? 12:33:59 Afraid of losing control, so far. 12:34:39 But I hope the increasing sophistication of 3rd party interface hacks etc and continuing support for the core development of the game will show that there's no need to worry. 12:34:48 +concurrent 12:35:13 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 12:36:31 Keskitalo: well, DF has the issue that someone makes a living on it. I guess that's harder to justify if everything is open. 12:36:37 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:54 dpeg: The text is excellent, great points about welcoming (and getting) "outside" contributions. 12:37:34 dpeg: Yes, and also loss of ownership of the vision for the game counts. 12:37:47 he probably doesn't really care that much about the money part, he just likes working on the game. Nonetheless, he does need the money 12:38:06 does he actually hold out for donations? 12:38:08 or just ask for them? 12:38:16 I mean he quit his position as the visiting assistant professor 12:38:31 there's a donation link and he reports donations monthly 12:39:08 i mean, if he's just asking for donations now, i don't think that would go down an incredible amount if the source was available 12:39:20 Keskitalo: what do you think about fonts in tiles https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1358 12:39:29 doy: he lives from the donations. 12:40:02 Keskitalo: I plan to use this text ultimately for this year's rl conference. Long way to go, I know. 12:40:17 he would never make it completely open source 12:40:25 dpeg: Sounds good! 12:40:28 well, as long as he works on it full time at least 12:41:00 dpeg: I'm finally finishing my bachelor's degree this week, the one I sent you an unintelligible google-translated version last year. :) 12:41:00 the code is also quite a mess, though not on Linley level 12:41:58 On open source game design, based on literature from OS and commercial game development. 12:42:20 ortoslon: I'm going to say both look good to me. 12:42:32 ortoslon: The new takes less space and doesn't lose readability, that's good 12:42:39 Keskitalo: you should write that IRLC article :P 12:42:43 and congrats! 12:43:12 ortoslon: Is there a guide somewhere about changing the fonts in the game? I see it pops up a lot in SA/DF thread, but I just have no clue. 12:43:19 syllogism: I agree (on DF not being fully OS as long as Tarn lives off it) -- but I suspect that Tarn is smart (and man) enough to hand the code over should he ever drop out. 12:43:59 Keskitalo: dunno, just tell 'em to edit tiles_options 12:44:10 ortoslon: Ah, didn't look at the HUD - the old one does look better like doy says 12:44:13 ortoslon: Ah, ok. :) 12:44:23 dpeg: Thanks - I hope I make it. :P 12:44:28 I mean, the thesis. 12:44:42 IRLC would be great to get to attend, sure. 12:44:49 i have to submit my bachelor's thesis soon too 12:45:03 where is irlc? 12:45:27 irlc = irdc? 12:45:40 shrug 12:47:40 ortoslon: yes 12:49:14 Keskitalo: also i don't know if crawl can use system fonts so i just copy external .ttf's to dat/tiles folder 12:51:47 Is there anyway to reference a particular item within a vector, if I know it is there? (specifically, you.demonic_traits) eg, you.demonic_traits[MUT_WHATEVER] ? 12:52:14 er, rather...not to reference it, but to automatically search through a vector 12:52:21 to find if it is there 12:54:11 std::find 12:54:17 or std::find_if with a predicate 12:55:24 if your MUT_WHATEVER is an index, you can access it with [] or .at(index) 12:56:06 is demonic_traits actually a vector? 13:02:48 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:00 Evenings by! 13:03:02 hi 13:03:35 dpeg: and you should clarify or rephrase "fossil roguelike" :) 13:04:03 bhaak: older than ten years, dated code, bloated scope :) 13:04:33 dpeg: I already know, but people your text don't :-) 13:12:31 I need a logical source file to stick show_startup_menu() in to :( 13:12:39 doy, yeah, but I realized its a vector of a struct 13:12:40 so find is useless. 13:12:52 find_if 13:12:57 and make your own predicate 13:13:13 ah, k. 13:13:50 bhaak, Keskitalo: added your comments 13:15:32 Cryp71c: blue is already used in the A screen 13:15:40 For racial stuff. 13:15:46 dpeg: More on the overflow altars: I've played very little Nemelex (I'm kind of scared), now I just had a most fun DSFi/N thanks to having the first altar be N. 13:15:58 Keskitalo: awesome :) 13:16:02 dpeg, yeah, that's why I chose it. 13:16:18 dpeg, it fits nicely since you can't get rid of DS mutations via cure mut or anything, I thought. 13:16:27 Cryp71c: I don't like it. DS mutations are random, other racial mutations are fixed. 13:16:43 of course, all of these are rather minor points :) 13:16:53 yeah, have an alternative color which isn't red? 13:16:56 Yellow? 13:16:59 Seems odd to me. 13:17:10 Purple? :) 13:17:33 lol 13:17:35 rainbow! 13:18:02 What's wrong with red? 13:18:40 dpeg, there's a FR that suggests moving bad mutations to be red colored, which conflicts with the paradigm of DS-coloring. 13:18:56 The FR is a solid idea, I think, which would provoke a change on the DS end. 13:18:58 felirx: just make a new file; startup.cc could possibly get part of what is now in main.cc, or even just startup-menu.cc 13:21:06 should we remove the command line options for starting sprint, arena etc while we're at it? 13:21:31 Cryp71c: I've encountered lack-of-colours issues quite often, but it should be easy to find a good solution for the A screen. We're talking about four colours, right? (racial, DS, bad, rest) 13:21:46 felirx: probably not 13:21:48 felirx: i don't think we need to, they'd be useful for things like dgl at least 13:21:57 well, maybe 13:22:10 dpeg, yes, racial is definitely blue. bad should definitely use red. rest is probably grey 13:22:12 so DS is in question. 13:22:14 I assume that's how cdo starts sprint right now 13:22:27 by: well, that's the only way you can start sprint right now, so 13:22:27 (: 13:22:29 that's how everyone starts sprint right now 13:22:32 black for DS :P 13:22:32 Cryp71c: purple would do, or yellow. 13:22:37 I like purple 13:22:39 we'll use it 13:22:41 or try it, at least. 13:22:44 i like purple too 13:22:45 Cryp71c: okay. 13:23:08 The colour of popes for our demonspawns <3 13:23:50 pope doesn't play crawl anyway, it's full of cannibalism 13:24:02 ortoslon: the pope could play TSO all day :) 13:24:07 or some Beogh in between 13:24:09 hehe 13:24:24 crawl --pope 13:27:02 summoners seem like a lot of work for very little pay off 13:27:26 Mu_, They're a very powerful, if not difficult to manage - job, I think. 13:28:41 dpeg, what's the technical tag for purple? and is there a lightpurple? 13:30:22 magenta? 13:30:24 and no 13:30:34 Mu_: still at odds with them? 13:30:53 just ascended it 13:31:07 dpeg, I beg to differ! magenta, lightmagenta, darkmagenta 13:31:08 :) 13:31:13 Mu_: what's the problem? Lack of cool spells? Tedium? Interface? 13:31:22 i was wondering why they were so unpopular 13:31:23 Cryp71c: darkmagenta? 13:31:30 dpeg, idk, its in colour.cc 13:31:58 Mu_: they're unpopular at least in parts because of the xp/2 rule. Which is crucial. 13:32:00 ah, I think that's a tilecolour 13:33:04 i don't think summoning really stacks up against conjuring. conjurers have a much easier early game, and have better spells in the late game i think. 13:33:08 i think that moving both enchantments and summoning to a max-mp casting system would be a pretty big improvement 13:33:10 font_buf.cc has the term colours listed in RGBA if that's any help 13:33:27 doy, max-mp? sounds like I've missed a conversation :P 13:33:37 the irritating part of both of them is how you have to recast things all the time 13:34:08 Cryp71c: casting them decreases your maxmp by the casting cost for as long as they're active 13:34:19 Cryp71c: buffs would be payed with maxmp -- until you stop them 13:34:20 and deactivating them is an explicit action 13:34:35 ahh, interesting. 13:34:37 sounds like dragon age 13:34:39 Could also do some sort of mana drain? 13:34:41 doy: I believe that Sum needs better spells, too. 13:34:47 idk, I like that max-mp though. 13:34:58 dpeg: yes, that's true too 13:35:16 in DA with sustained abilities, you could reach godhood though as a mage 13:35:20 summon scorpions and horrible things are really cool, i liked those. 13:35:27 dpeg, new spell, soul link selects the highest summon you have in LOS and any damage you take is split with them? 13:35:33 More distinguished, tactically diverse, also more insanty would help 13:35:34 i'm surprised something in the tomb doesn't have scorpions:) 13:35:39 Cryp71c: to the wiki 13:35:49 "To the wiki!!!" 13:35:51 lol 13:35:56 Mu_: that would be interesting 13:36:03 the spell selection in tomb is pretty boring 13:36:27 i guess with all the torment flying around a spell that summons living things would be a bit useless 13:36:35 maybe spectral scorpions :) 13:37:35 it'd also be nice if you could direct your pets to attack invisible creatures that either you or they can see 13:37:37 "Summon scarabeus" 13:37:50 Mu_: ---> feedback pages :) 13:38:14 project image, the supercheese spell 13:38:29 paralyzes yourself but makes a copy of you with your spells and manapool 13:38:51 doy, how can I create a new page? or should it go under "Caster consolidations" in brainstorming? 13:38:55 some will have to make such a page for me ;p 13:39:05 Mu_: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:school:summoning 13:39:08 here you go 13:39:12 ty 13:39:23 Summon Boring Beetles! Summon Boulder Beetle, once the rolling change is in, might be neat as well. 13:39:27 nevermind 13:39:30 Cryp71c: edit that page once Mu is done, okay? 13:39:40 yeah 13:39:41 We do have Conjure Ball Lightning, IOOD and Fedhas' spores already though. 13:39:45 Mu_, let me know when you're finished. 13:40:00