00:45:49 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 00:49:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:03:07 meh, pand lord levels shouldn't allow semi-controlled blink 02:24:22 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:19:43 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:14 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:58 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:30 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:37 by: Chaotics and undead with physical form. It's in the silver item description. 04:22:28 doy: You want this wiki page: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:existing_monsters 04:23:16 See the slugs especially. :) 04:24:54 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:30 Orc disconnecting (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1341) by Kyrris 04:32:40 -!- mmt has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:56 -!- mmt has quit [Client Quit] 04:41:34 @.O -> @O @.O @..O --- @O -> %O @O @.O --- @..O -> @.O @..O @...@ 04:41:49 (the last is supposed to be @...O) 04:42:23 I'm trying to figure out what b0rsuk is saying about ogres and speed randomization. 04:45:25 Assuming the player keeps moving away from the ogre, situation @.O can result in @O, @.O or @..O --- @O -> %O, @O or @.O --- @..O -> @.O, @..O or @...O and so on 04:46:15 b0rsuk usually means player ogres 04:46:50 Nope, https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:speed_randomization#update3_30 04:47:30 I like how he's threating that not only he, but all the smart players will stop playing Crawl, development will stagnate and Crawl will suck because of the speed randomization. 04:48:35 In the "grindy way to abuse this", I don't get why it's beneficial to wait a turn. 04:49:46 Ah, I'm thinking of running away, he's likely saying that if you intend to melee them, you should do a bit of dancing. 04:50:52 I've done that with snakes sometimes, run away from them until they are next to you so they don't get the first attack. 04:51:42 Now you should do this for all the encounters that aren't slower than you. 04:53:20 i barely ever notice the speed randomization. 04:53:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:01 I really like the little bit of unpredicatibility it introduces, especially when there are several monsters moving around. 04:56:35 But I'll admit I'm not fond of that effect. 04:59:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:59 I think b0rsuk has lost the point entirely 05:00:14 Crawl is great precisely because it doesn't care to be popular 05:02:53 oh no crawl contributors will leave 05:04:02 crawl has too many contributors 05:04:28 we're starting to have right-hand-left-hand problems 05:05:21 Slow healing mutation is going back and forth. 05:06:31 Maybe we need to keep a list of decisions in the wiki. :P A game design document! *shudders a bit* 05:07:24 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:22 Level annotations get printed when I reach a piety threshold. 05:19:28 whoever added level annotation printing didn't check the callgraph 05:20:42 Keskitalo: your autoid is broken 05:23:38 Huh? 05:31:51 This? 05:32:09 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:34 yawn 05:59:10 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:27:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 06:46:58 32x48 paper-doll tile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1342) by Denzi 06:51:36 Oh man, God tiles! 07:07:05 -!- Fangorn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:07:53 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:21 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:47 'Evenin. 07:29:58 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:06 Afternoon! 07:32:24 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:35:13 is it intentional that shadow creatures will summon plants and fungi 07:35:21 I think so 07:37:56 you could probably sit in the temple forever farming spores/ballistos colonies for xp 07:49:57 due: I'm sorry I was away for a while. 07:50:00 I hope you didn't miss me too much. 07:55:14 :) 08:04:22 !seen Enne 08:04:23 I last saw Enne at Sun Apr 4 00:00:58 2010 UTC (1w 13h 3m 25s ago) quitting with message Quit: Enne. 08:29:51 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 08:29:54 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:12 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:37 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:50:42 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:18 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:21:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:37 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:47 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:15 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:28 Cheers 10:10:48 !seen minced 10:10:49 I last saw minced at Sat Apr 10 03:29:35 2010 UTC (1d 11h 41m 14s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 10:11:20 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:08 morning all 10:22:08 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:00 the lesser point! 10:23:00 Textmode: hey there 10:23:10 Textmode: hiya! 10:23:19 !seen Keskitalo 10:23:22 I last saw Keskitalo at Sun Apr 11 10:31:51 2010 UTC (4h 51m 31s ago) saying This? on ##crawl-dev. 10:23:22 !seen doy 10:23:23 I last saw doy at Sun Apr 11 01:54:59 2010 UTC (13h 28m 24s ago) saying for all slot mutations on ##crawl-dev. 10:23:29 * Textmode huggles dpeg and ixtli 10:23:35 No one's in at the moment. It seems :) 10:23:40 yay huggles 10:23:47 dpeg: Jeeze, we're right here you know. 10:23:48 Please leave a recording :P 10:24:00 :D 10:24:11 I may have rewritten tiles vertex buffering entirely 10:24:20 reduced a lot of code size and removed templates from tilebuff 10:24:21 :D 10:24:32 i was very tired when I did it though 10:24:34 so 10:24:38 * ixtli tests 10:43:31 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:15 "I also fully believe that Xom should gift amazing randarts for slots you can't use" 11:07:19 +1 11:24:12 syllogism: where? 11:31:22 SA 11:32:05 03dolorous * r4dfe4999b69a 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Swap Call Imp and Call Canine Familiar in the book of Callings. 11:34:39 !seen kilobyte 11:34:39 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Apr 10 18:35:27 2010 UTC (21h 59m 12s ago) saying severity 2 miscasts are too nasty for places where small mummies are a threat, but currently youre guaranteed _some_ hurt, unlike severity 0 miscasts on ##crawl-dev. 11:41:24 are the canines better than the imps? those imps were what got my summoner to the lair 11:43:27 Mu_: playing more summoners? 11:43:55 yeah, i've got one on D:17 at the moment 11:44:01 canines can kill hydras and yaktaurs, at least combined with slow 11:44:12 err death yaks even 11:44:35 Mu_, felirx: as always, specific ideas to improve matters (in this case, with the spells, I guess) are welcome. 11:44:47 felirx: are you still coding stuff for Crawl? 11:44:50 yes 11:44:53 :) 11:44:57 What is it this time? 11:45:07 the same as before 11:45:16 starting menu? 11:45:33 general menu structure that will allow all sorts of fun stuff 11:45:42 i think we need some new summoning spells, a lot of the lower level ones are really bad 11:46:01 busy trying to win with a DEFE though! 11:46:09 evil Mara :( 11:46:30 i'm relying mostly on summon demon at the moment, and it's kind of odd knowing i could get that for free by worshipping makhleb :) 11:48:59 Mu_: yes, good ideas for new summons are welcome 11:49:46 Keskitalo and I have been thinking for quite some time about a spell that creates a single, beefy, non-evil fellow (and you could only ever have one, or very few). This would be new, and also allow usage with Elyvilon. 11:53:55 My own favourite summon idea is Summon Hydra: very short duration, more heads with more power. A powerful summon for good god worshippers, especially for TSO who extends the duration when the spell is used appropriately. 11:53:59 Also hi! 11:56:29 Canines is probably better than imps. (Well, Imps got iron imps just now). My idea is to give the (normal and now iron) imps some missile weapons/missiles, to make then a ranged summon. (Shadow imps being a bit different, but them raising corpses gives kind of indirect support) 11:57:10 I mean, Canines is probably better than Imps now, since Canines don't produce hostiles anymore, but Imps didn't get a buff. (Well, except now with the iron imps, he he.) 11:58:15 the white imps are really useful 11:58:50 summoning a golem would be good for a strong pet too, and i love golems 11:59:40 Yeah, that sounds neat. 11:59:58 Slow, but hard-hitting and resilient. 12:00:18 And magic-immune, I'm not sure if that's interesting now, but can be made so. 12:04:06 You know, summoning things between battles to provide escort is pretty tedious (and probably optimal). How about giving each summon a range of operations, like a circle they cannot leave? 12:04:09 it would basically be summon earth elemental though 12:05:05 st_: Heh, that's true. Although golems could use some interestingness on their own.. they're great for flavour (I think), but not the most exciting monsters in gameplay terms. 12:17:20 Of course, the circle thing would suck for summons against the player. 12:17:38 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:24:06 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:21 -!- lorimer has quit [Quit: rebewt to fix sound] 12:37:13 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:24 I like both hydra and golem summoning. For golems, you obviously want some ritual (read: item) 13:01:19 Scrolls seem like the natural pick. 13:01:35 Silly idea: all summoned hydras start with two heads. You'll have to cut the thing to more heads yourself. Spell power determines tameness -- with each cut, there's an increasing chance for the hydra to become hostile (mitigated by power). Needless to say, for this to work hydras should be long-lived. 13:02:27 Keskitalo: yes, scrolls or powerful misc items. 13:03:03 or also: one potion, one scroll, one misc item, one corpse 13:04:07 Heh, that (cutting hydra heads) would be funny. The spell would indeed be quite different from my above idea. 13:04:57 Adding a corpse starts sounding like work, you really need to prepare. Depends how the summon would be used though. 13:05:04 I don't think there enough misc items for that to work 13:05:24 Keskitalo, ogaz: that's not a problem. The ritual would be rare, the golem could be as strong as we like. 13:05:39 what about deciding the golem type based on item sacrifice 13:05:41 like in d2 13:05:47 ogaz: The scarcity introduces an excellent resource management mechanism! 13:06:05 felirx: of course: the type of scroll/potion/etc should have an effect on the resulting golem. 13:06:23 I thought that was clear without saying :) (Didn't ever play any diablos, of course.) 13:06:38 dpeg: Permanent allies are gnhhrggngh. Except for Fedhas's oklobs (they don't move) and the new demonic guardian (will always appear when you take stairs). 13:06:48 So, something that doesn't necessiate herding is required. 13:07:41 I've toyed with this idea of misc item type (totems), that includes a pan lord -style randomly constructed monster. You summon it from the totem and it returns to the item when it's done. 13:07:42 Keskitalo: I wasn't talking about permanent. 13:08:20 But it's a difference if your summon will live 20 turns (half a battle) or 2000 turns. 13:08:55 Oh, ok. I made an assumption that effort -> permanent. :) 13:09:01 no no 13:09:17 Just effort -> long enough to not be tedious 13:09:33 We don't want players to do the hydra (or golem) dance twice on every level. 13:09:45 long-term golem summons would be kind of annoying to herd because golems are slow, unless you have recall 13:10:32 so they shouldn't be herded 13:13:07 I wonder if it would be feasible to match your travel speed to your slowest ally. 13:13:10 then will they give you some sort of "recall golem guardian" ability? 13:14:33 There are so many options... Golems could vanish after a while and reappear near you later. 13:15:00 Why on earth am I getting email about something "I" posted on some blog? 13:15:00 Keskitalo: I don't know. This is also currently proposed on Mantis somewhere. 13:15:27 rax: Napkin used your rgrm posting to close the 2009 tournament entry. 13:15:40 rax: are you angry about that? It was my suggestion even :O 13:15:51 Oh - Hi rax :-$ 13:15:54 Of course, he creditet "you". 13:16:02 *credited 13:16:18 didn't want to steal credit :) 13:16:21 I'd rather things not be forged as posted by me. 13:16:36 Napkin: can you remove the entry? 13:17:11 sure - should I, rax? 13:17:22 You could just say "text taken from cao" and make it posted by you. 13:17:45 rax: nobody dares to ask you these days. 13:17:57 At least, I won't. 13:18:11 I don't mind the information being out there, I just don't like the idea that someone posted something on the internet _as me_. 13:18:21 as you prefer, rax. 13:18:37 I'm sorry that I've been busy; I'd rather that you ask, though. :) 13:18:49 but it was actually you that posted it. I just added it to the wordpress - so people would see the tournament went great - instead of died 13:18:57 rax: will do next time. Thought it was easier this way, sorry about that. 13:19:16 should have asked you to register your name and email to the wordpress though - i'm sorry 13:19:26 I also don't like having been signed up for a website non-consensually, yeah. It's OK. 13:19:43 Napkin: just add something like "The tournament's organiser posting to r.g.r.m. reposter here" or somesuch. 13:19:47 so angry 13:20:00 syllogism: why? 13:20:06 not me 13:20:15 syllogism: who? 13:20:37 rax has been recently 13:20:58 I think that was reasonable! 13:21:01 My company just got acquired, I've been thesing, and I just bought a house. It's stressed more than angry. 13:22:10 I haven't even gotten to play 0.6 yet. I'm looking forward to it though. 13:22:25 :) 13:22:44 If I were angry I would just stop reading here. ;) 13:23:06 rax: Please give feedback how AC/EV looks when you do. :) 13:30:25 -!- Kyuuketsuki has quit [Quit: Kyuuketsuki] 13:33:39 Ooh, I might be just figuring out how to give the imps some stuff to throw and shoot. 13:43:01 rax: that sounds like a lot of ... stuff. 13:47:26 Do monsters use artefacts these days? 13:47:59 I don't think they can be generated with them, but they can pick them off the ground 13:50:26 they can be 13:50:48 at least uniques, and at least for a while angels/daeva 13:51:50 some uniques anyway 13:55:08 I've had a feeling I've picked artefact weapons from dead monsters loot, but not sure if I've been hit with them. 13:55:37 they definitely pick up and use artefacts 13:57:59 I had a centaur with randart white sword so definetely picks up at least 14:00:22 elf:7 typically ends up with a lot of the vault loot in the hands of the elves 14:00:57 yes 14:01:42 i've seen tso daevas being summoned with randart shields 14:19:09 they are 14:19:27 daevas are special, the only monster that can get randarts in equipment 14:19:31 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:19:39 and 90% of the reason for the post-0.4 ISFLAG_SUMMONED insanity 14:19:41 none of the new uniques? 14:19:57 nope, unless you count gastronok's hat 14:21:44 sorear: Hi! 14:24:29 Napkin: Can I get the colour? Please :) 14:30:06 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:39 03Keskitalo * r4c5a115de2a8 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Since ammo and launcher brands don't cancel each other out anymore, tweak and rename _compatible_launcher_ammo_brands to _nonredundant_launcher_ammo_brands. 14:34:18 Wizmode not include in pre-compiled package as stated on the download page (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1343) by innou 14:40:32 Heh, once again I get a blood spattered spot in Lair, and autoexplore runs right into the blade trap in the middle. I still think autoexplore stopping for previously unseen blood would be good. 14:49:38 Keskitalo: +1 14:51:22 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:33 dpeg: btw, I'm using divine vigour quite a bit on my current game. Against a death yak pack that surrounded me, for instance. I did end up using a scroll of fear and then greater healing the few that didn't fear, but DV was a good back-up. 14:55:47 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:48 It gives more margin of error for me definitely. :) 14:55:50 Hi Enne! 14:55:54 Howdy, howdy! 14:56:01 Keskitalo: oh, I like to hear that. 14:56:07 Enne: cheers! 14:56:57 One though that I had earlier, was that DV wouldn't cost food, so it could be used more easily with the other abilities (pacification for instance is very food-expensive) 14:57:24 Keskitalo: sounds good 14:57:30 I'm pacifying a lot too, although I'm not trying to play in that style. It's just so good in Lair and gets my piety and Inv up. 14:57:43 hmmm 14:57:57 Keskitalo: it lets you go further in Lair than you'd do otherwise, yes (and saves consumables) 14:58:00 doy: ? 14:58:01 is gluggy white no longer the porridge potion descriptor? 14:58:32 can be gluggy brown 14:58:41 dpeg: Of course, I lose exp in thew ay 14:59:20 I wonder if amulet of faith would be good.. 14:59:22 Keskitalo: but you get something in return; it's absolutely okay 15:02:08 Keskitalo: faith is always good 15:02:41 Might buy it for Zot or something. 15:07:42 Keskitalo: it should help with the good healing (you can use it on liches etc., but will need several tries) as well as for praying. 15:10:11 I guess I'll move a host of interface FRs to the wiki page today. 15:10:19 Colours or not. 15:11:38 doy: got a momentß 15:11:43 dpeg: sure 15:12:49 doy: once we redo the not-the-hud, would you also be up to improving the Wp and Qv lines? 15:13:10 how so? 15:13:28 I am thinking of main colour of the weapon coming from skill (darkgrey for no skill, etc.) with the ego shown in a characteristic colour. 15:13:33 idea is by by :) 15:13:43 hmmm, sounds easy enough 15:14:19 doy: cool. So I won't add that to the wiki, unless you think I should. 15:15:45 The idea of the weapon colour change is that you'd see at a glance if the weapon works well (your best skill), works somewhat, or is off the mark. In comparison, all axes are shown in darkgrey, which is never helpful. 15:23:17 is it documented somewhere troll unarmed does a lot of damage? New players keep asking whether they should switch to some weapon they happened to find 15:23:35 the 'A' screen talks about your hugo claws 15:23:41 well yes 15:25:12 syllogism: not more than that 15:31:56 syllogism: should we say more? 15:34:22 I think so, though more broadly it might be helpful to give some information regarding your to-hit/damage/delay 15:34:59 this would also solve related issues, such as the heavy armour penalties being non-obvious 15:35:03 and shield 15:37:14 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:40 syllogism: I don't know how/what to show. 15:37:45 dpeg: Plugin package (1 plugin: fontcolor) successfully installed. 15:37:47 yes it's tricky 15:37:57 Napkin: yay :) 15:38:07 Napkin: was it complicated? 15:39:14 no, just complicated to find the time to do it ;) 15:39:45 it should add a toolbar - or you can use >blabla 15:40:08 --- 15:40:08 1. 15:40:11 A three or six hexadecimal color value [ e.g. #E8E or #7fffd4 ] 15:40:11 2. 15:40:11 One of the standard color names [ e.g. white, black, aqua ] 15:40:11 3. 15:40:13 Napkin: new toolbar for all users? Or do I have to enable it? 15:40:14 An decimal or percentage RGB color [ e.g. rgb(55%, 35%, 25%), rgb(255, 0, 255) ] 15:40:16 --- 15:40:35 will just try it 15:40:41 for all 15:40:58 at the very end of the top buttons of the editor, a red A 15:43:17 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:24 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:32 does it work for you, dpeg? not working in playground 15:45:42 yes, it works :) 15:45:48 not in headlines 15:45:49 ok, seems to work outside of 
15:45:58  but that's not the fault of the fontcolour package
15:46:07  other stuff doesn't work in headlines either
15:46:14  yeah, think so too
15:51:57  Napkin: you can have a look, I hope it's eye-catching enough
15:52:05  link me
15:52:05  https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface
15:52:42  red stuff bold is good
15:52:50  thanks
15:53:05  while you are at it - add an empty page here: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:dpeg
15:53:19  do it's not showing up as red & underlines anymore :)
15:54:16 -!- syllogism has quit []
15:54:51  *so it's not
15:55:03  gee, too tired
15:55:28  so your name is not showing up in red with underline
15:56:12  g'night :)
15:59:58  Napkin: done
16:15:59  03dolorous * rbe86927d3c90 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Add spacing fix.
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16:39:58  Provide a way to view unarmed damage (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1344) by b0rsuk
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17:32:11  Sorting interface FRs always a bit like work. I guess that's even worse when coding them.
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18:05:43  So if I clone the current trunk off of the repository and look, will I see the current-proposal-0.7 AC/EV math, or are there specific changes planned which still aren't in the code?
18:10:25  show spell accuarcy info (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1345) by simonj
18:10:31  you see the current stuff
18:10:52  the proposals for further changes are on the 0.7 wiki page, I am not aware of plans beyond that
18:41:40  "AC/EV adjustments (general consensus is that AC will need a buff and EV will need a nerf, but we can see how things work out)."
18:41:44  So this is done?
18:44:06  no, we're still seeing how things work out
18:44:18  it's far from clear (to me at least) how much we overnerfed
18:44:38  And players are getting a feeling for the current situation. So this needs more time.
18:45:13  (And in my DSFi tests, I used only armours and shields, and found it usable.)
18:45:46  yeah, i don't think we need to do *too* much
18:46:52  I like by's idea of constant GDR a lot... that's in and it should matter a bit.
18:47:21  We have an insane number of interface FRs on Mantis, wasn't aware of that.
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19:20:47  Amulet of the Four Winds is missing description (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1346) by dpeg
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19:31:27  Closed 25 or so FRs, that's it for today.
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19:33:32 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as MarvinPA
19:38:20  morning folk
19:42:28  Hey, due.  :)
19:43:47  Hi Enne!
19:43:56  I only ever seem to see you when I'm slacking off at work ;)
19:45:10  ... and somebody has stolen all my highlighters. There will be mass murder, brb.
19:49:07  Probably because I haven't been around much lately.  :(
19:49:25  I did have a question for you though, related to that "don't let subvaults be randomly picked" issue from a week or so back.
19:49:36  If I added a tag to make a vault not be randomly picked, what should it be called?
19:50:59  no_random_pick?
19:51:16  or perhaps no_random_use?
19:52:59  pick_by_tag_only?
19:53:51  That works too.
19:54:01  or "tag_specific_only"?
19:54:13  I still dislike "always_corpse" but it was better than "always_leaves_corpse".
19:55:09  corpse_always?
19:55:19  Yeah, it's hard to find a balance between clear+verbose and vague+succinct.
19:55:23  Yeah, but I'd already committed it.
19:59:01 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:01:42  Huh.
20:01:46  The tone of that email is... strange.
20:08:29  which email?
20:11:33  doy: Samuel's email to c-r-d.
20:13:13  ah, yeah
20:26:08  Selecting items to drop using . and ' does not update the display for number of turns it will take (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1347) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid
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21:16:23  Can eat raw flesh when not hungry, without carnivore mutation (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1348) by Seriyu
21:17:02  Unidentified gourmand?
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21:29:58  Got my win so now I have to finish the menu interface :(
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22:42:29  due: I like the way he attached the save
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